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[P]
Where are the job(s)(less) going?

By Builder in Culture
Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 09:36:40 AM EST
Tags: Help! (Ask Kuro5hin) (all tags)
Help! (Ask Kuro5hin)

I see a lot of news about companies laying off thousands of people. Where are these people going, and what is left for them ? Are there enough new jobs opening up to support them ?


I'm paranoid by design. I'm a wage slave because I haven't got the courage to go out on my own and build something for my family. And now, more and more, I am seeing stories of thousands of people losing their jobs.

This is not just in the dotcom arena (where I currently work), but also places like car manufacturers (Vauxhall), communications companies (Cisco, Lucent, Marconi), etc.

I'm curious about some things, mostly out of an interest to start planning for when I get dumped. Where are the people that are being laid off going? I count thousands of retrenchments in the last couple of months alone. How many of these people are finding work and how long after they are retrenched? What kind of skills do the people that are securing new work have, that the people being left by the wayside don't?

Also, how can the economy support the influx of thousands of newly unemployed people? There must be morgages not getting paid, cars being repo'd, etc...

I fear for these people and for myself. I'm not too far from retrenchment now. I have industry certifications (RHCE), and 7 years experience as a sysadmin, but what if I can't find work? What if the work isn't there to be found? What happens to my family?

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Where are the job(s)(less) going? | 50 comments (31 topical, 19 editorial, 0 hidden)
I work for Marconi (4.50 / 4) (#5)
by Paul Johnson on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 08:38:57 AM EST

But I'm not any kind of official spokesperson. The following is my own perception and may bear no relationship to reality.

The 3,000 layoffs we announced recently (out of a global workforce circa 50,000 IIRC) are going to take place over a period of a year or so. As far as possible they are going to be voluntary, meaning things like early retirement, golden parachutes etc. As few people as possible are going to actually be sent a letter saying "your job ends next month".

At the same time we are hiring. A new centre is under construction near Coventry, and we are putting 40M into a research facility in Cambridge (next door to MS, as it happens, but you can't have everything). I don't know about other companies, but the layoffs here are more about adjusting our skill profile than just saving money. We've also outsourced a lot of manufacturing work recently, which is probably related to these layoffs.

I've been tracking UK job adverts in the technology sector, and the dot-com downturn has had no visible effect on hiring. My impression is that anyone with useful skills will find a job, and that even out of date skills are still in demand for maintaining and updating legacy software. So I suspect that most of the people laid off will find another job fairly quickly. Its not a fun situation of course, because you never know if you are going to be one of the exceptions.

This is in marked contrast to the radical restructuring that British industry went through in the 80s. Its still a very controversial period in our economic history. Some people (like me) feel that it was way overdue, and that much of the pain could have been avoided if previous governments had had the courage to do it gradually over the previous decade. As it was, we went through 5 years where most of the big industry was scrapped and maybe a couple of million people were laid off. Because this was BIG industry (steel mills, coal mines, shipyards) it usually meant that the economic heart was taken out of an entire town with nothing immediate to replace it. So millions of people became long term unemployed and an entire generation grew up without the expectation of ever earning a living. And yes, houses and cars were reposessed en-mass.

But the dot-com downturn is nothing like that. The fundamentals of the industry are strong, its just that we need to recover from irrational exuberance.

Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.

Lack of Link (2.50 / 2) (#7)
by Builder on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 09:19:10 AM EST

Aplogies for the lack of a link. I couldn't decide between MLP and news, but I figure it sure as hell aint news :)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/ has carried a lot of the stories that have prompted this posting under topics such as foobar goes titsup.com


--
Be nice to your daemons
Section suggestion (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by Michael Leuchtenburg on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 01:19:22 PM EST

Culture - Ask Kuro5hin

[ #k5: dyfrgi ]
[ TINK5C ]
[ Parent ]
ECON 101 (3.75 / 4) (#11)
by Signal 11 on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 01:28:18 PM EST

The type of unemployment you are referring to has a name - structural unemployment. These people will find new jobs simply because people's demands and desires exceed that of available supply. It always has, and it always will. That is, afterall, the principal job of economics - choices amongst scarcity.

That being said, these people don't simply wink out of existance, nor will they immediately be thrown out into the street. Thanks in large part to the reforms by Maynard Keynes during the Depression Era, we now have stabilization policies in place - one such policy is unemployment insurance. While it is true that unemployment won't give you back your full earnings potential, it'll likely keep a roof over your head and food on your plate until another job comes along.

Right now the economy is, as a worst-case scenario, falling slightly (< 2%) as demand tapers off. Still, there are a lot of jobs out there, and it is unlikely that we'll start seeing unemployment rates climb to unacceptable levels this year. Keep an eye out for inflation though...


--
Society needs therapy. It's having
trouble accepting itself.

Typo! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Signal 11 on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 01:29:47 PM EST

While it is true that unemployment...

That ought to be unemployment insurance... (doh)


--
Society needs therapy. It's having
trouble accepting itself.
[ Parent ]

Structural unemployment defn wrong (none / 0) (#17)
by kmself on Fri Apr 20, 2001 at 02:49:14 AM EST

This is structural unemployment. People choosing not to work because their skills aren't sought by the economy. Not people transitioning between jobs.

--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

No, it's right. (none / 0) (#33)
by Signal 11 on Tue Apr 24, 2001 at 10:45:51 AM EST

From the link you provided: Economists often use the term "structural unemployment" for employment problems that arise because of a mismatch between the needs of employers and the skills and training of the labor force.

If lots of people in the computer industry were being laid off and not being re-hired, it would be structural unemployment - there is less demand for that kind of work, hence more unemployed workers in that sector. This is why I suggested that these workers should/would change careers to a more in-demand field, if this was the case.




--
Society needs therapy. It's having
trouble accepting itself.
[ Parent ]

Economy (none / 0) (#24)
by QuoteMstr on Fri Apr 20, 2001 at 11:01:04 PM EST

Did you mean that situation is the worst case, or that, in the worst case, that is the situation?

[ Parent ]
It's dot.com (3.00 / 3) (#14)
by enterfornone on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 06:38:22 PM EST

Well dot.com and the businesses that supply them. There are still plenty of IT jobs in other areas (finance seems to be the big one from the ads I've seen). Despite the dot.com collapse people are still talking about the IT skills shortage.

You've got certs and experience, you're going to be doing much better than the newbies who spent 6 months in the industry before being retrenched.

BTW unless you will be getting a big payout, start looking for work now. It's much easier to get a job when you already have one.


--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
I disagree. (none / 0) (#42)
by infinitesin on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 08:20:08 PM EST

Education is going to be the bottom line. You can debate about the legitimacy of work experience, but in the end, any company is going to choose a degree over a year in the field.
--
"Just wait until tomorrow..I guess that's what they all say..just before they fall apart.."

[ Parent ]
"chicken little is lying" (4.60 / 5) (#15)
by sayke on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 09:08:57 PM EST

check this article at wired news. a relevent quote:

Preliminary figures from the U.S. Department of Labor show that between February and March of this year, companies in the computer and data processing sector added -- not dropped -- a combined total of 12,000 jobs. In fact, the March 2001 data show a jump of 100,000 jobs from a year ago.
another quote:

One explanation for the difference between public opinion and reality is that corporate layoffs almost always draw news reports, while announcements of job opportunities do not. Another explanation is that announcements of layoffs are skyrocketing -- but actual layoffs are not.
you get the idea.


sayke, v2.3.1 /* i am the middle finger of the invisible hand */

... but Chicken Little may have an audience (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by sera on Fri May 11, 2001 at 02:48:29 PM EST

Much of what you say is true. Unfortunately, a lie can have quite a bit of potency -- in this, economics is a lot like politics. If everybody starts thinks the sky is falling, they're going to start hoarding cash in order to stave off the seemingly inevitable hard times ahead. Then you've got a textbook self-fulfilling prophecy.

This will affect different businesses to different degrees. In some businesses, executives (and investors) still make decisions based on looking at the economic fundamentals -- you know, those boring old numbers. But some businesses (read: dotcoms) are based primarily on public perception, so once the public perception falls out, they have nothing left, and Chapter 11 isn't too far behind.

Still, this is probably just a short-term problem. I have lots of problems with capitalism, but I have to admit that it can be very good at producting efficiencies by rewarding those who exploit market opportunities first. Opportunities always exist, in times of boom and bust. For example, I recently read a story saying that a lot of non-dotcoms were finding really great bargain-basement prices on computer equipment, since the demand suddenly went south. So there's always an upside, as long as you know where to look.

firmament.to: Every text is an index.
[ Parent ]

Funny you should ask (3.66 / 3) (#20)
by bjrubble on Fri Apr 20, 2001 at 03:40:17 AM EST

I got laid off today.

I never stopped getting the occasional call from a recruiter, even after all my attempts to purge my resume from the Internet. Everything I've seen indicates that there are still plenty of jobs in the technical sector, although the wages aren't what they were. I took a big pay cut to get options, so I figure I can contract for at least as much as I was making (but less than I used to contract for) but that might not be a good enough deal to keep me in an industry that essentially whores me out.

To a large extent, people are moving out of this particular industry. Most people who can afford to are going back to school or taking long vacations. (I personally think, if you couldn't accumulate some savings during that boom, you're pretty SOL no matter what.) Others are finding places not affected by the "dot.com" slump. From what I've heard -- and my slice of experience jibes with this -- it's the "soft" skill sets that are having the hardest time with this. C++ is useful in a lot of places; not so PHP. Database people and serious specialists aren't having much trouble at all. Keep in mind that there's been a severe shortage of technical skill in the job market for years now. My skills aren't hard enough to make me feel completely safe, but I figure I still have it better than 90% of the people out there.

The bubble has burst, but there were real forces behind it. As an engineer, the fact that nobody's figured out how to profit off the Internet isn't my problem. Somebody will eventually figure that out, and then the industry will pick up again. Until then, my plan is to take advantage of the opportunity to slow down and spend more time higher on Maslow's hierarchy.

Where the jobless techies are? (3.00 / 1) (#21)
by cable on Fri Apr 20, 2001 at 11:02:57 AM EST

If they have any skills, they will be getting jobs at other companies eventually. Don't get scared by the Dotcom companies folding or laying off people in the thousands because other companies are hiring to make up for it.

From what I am told, there is a lack of qualified technical people to fill those jobs. So any Joe Techie or Jill Techie can fill those jobs if they at least have some skills. Not some wet behind the ear recent college grad, unless they have more than a year's worth of experience. An ex-co-worker of mine was one such person, who had worked for 8 months and then got downsized. He is working fast food jobs now to pay his bills until he can find another IS/IT job. If he had my skills, he would be at another job in a few months tops.

------------------
Only you, can help prevent Neb Rage!

My experience (4.50 / 2) (#22)
by keyeto on Fri Apr 20, 2001 at 01:15:24 PM EST

Way back in the early nineties, I left university and became employed by a computer graphics startup, as it's first permanent employee, no less. Just over two years later, they ran out of money to pay my wages, so replaced me with somebody from a training scheme, who got half of his wages paid by the state.

You'd think after a couple of years experience in the industry, it'd be relatively straightforward to find another programming job. Not at all. It took three and a half years to find one. It started off with having a somewhat narrow set of skills, but after a while it got circular. Nobody would hire me, so nobody else would hire me either.

Then I finally got hired by another startup, because I was prepared to be cheap. Damn sight more than the dole, but still little compared to what programmers can get. This was a dot.com. They got bought up by another company at around the time that lastminute tried to float. That kind of signalled the end of the dot.com boom, and the company that bought us were an evil bunch of cunts. They showed this by trying new contracts on us, which we all refused to sign, since it demanded to own all of our thoughts, past present and future, with or without it having anything to do with the job. It got nastier from there, but you don't really need any more details. It took about another eight months before they made me redundant, when they decided to outsource to a company that the new COO used to be employed by, and still had shares in. Anybody else thinking "conflict of interest"?

That was a few months ago. This time around though, I had more of a reputation, and walked into my current job a couple of weeks before my three months of "gardening leave" was over. Easy, and not quite so cheap this time round either.

And on the whole I'm a lot better off. Only a week or so after the previous made me redundant the CEO resigned and walked away. Followed shortly by the COO. They got the outsourced software a short while ago. What little of it that works at all, works badly. An object lesson in how to fuck a company up. It's hard to accept being made redundant as a favour, but seeing the state it's in now, it makes me wonder.

After that ramble, there is a point. Start looking for a job when already got one. Secondly, if there's obvious shenanigans going on around you, you could well be better off leaving and looking elsewhere immediately.


--
"This is the Space Age, and we are Here To Go"
William S. Burroughs
think of Boeing layoffs in the early 70s (3.00 / 1) (#25)
by poltroon on Sat Apr 21, 2001 at 01:57:41 AM EST

just to put some perspective on the situation, imagine tens of thousands laid off, all in the same region, all from the same industry. in order to move out of town you need to sell the house you're paying a fat mortgage on, but house prices have plummeted so far that even if you find a buyer, you'll still owe the bank a lot. people were killing themselves.

somehow i don't think the dot-com & tech layoffs even compare... currently, anyway.

Layoffs (3.00 / 1) (#28)
by weirdling on Mon Apr 23, 2001 at 01:06:40 PM EST

I think it funny that a lot of companies encourage their most experienced and capable employees to find work elsewhere during a period of economic contraction by offering them the chance to voluntarily quit or seek early retirement. Oh, wait, that was to soften the blow and be caring, not to send the best and brightest, who can often get better paying jobs elsewhere, running off to another company that is likely a competitor...

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
fall 2000: a designer's story (3.00 / 1) (#29)
by Epoch of Entropy on Mon Apr 23, 2001 at 10:20:41 PM EST

After quitting my job at the begginning of Fall 2000 I found myself busy with work and making the same ammount of money as an independent contractor. Running with a parnter and psudo-company we were stepping up doing club flyers, promotional material, graphic design and web design in NYC. But my partner decided that we should quit the printing, and basically severed all of our ties leaving all our clients to suffer. (Funny enough, he wasn't around most of the day and I was handling most of the work)

I took a few weeks off over thanksgiving and that's when things started to get real bad. I returned to the city unable to pick up any new accounts doing web design or graphic design. But tried to hang in there. My landlady was very kind and understanding to my predicament, that I have been trying to make it doing my own thing young, but that slowly faded away and by March I was officially evicted.

Maybe I should have been more focused on getting a job working for somebody else, but that has never really been what I've liked to do. Small team, dedicated work, and big ideas is more up my alley. But I write this now at my parents house in upstate new york never regretting a minute. Now I'm working with an independent contractor doing: (drumroll please) carpentry and construction!

Redneck tan optional.


.:: Epoch of Entropy ::. .:: http://entropy.ice.org ::.
The state of the design industry (none / 0) (#41)
by infinitesin on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 08:17:46 PM EST

Well, I can empthasize - I lost my dream job with the dream firm because of simple economics, but you really can't give up. The simple fact is that all the firms that are too concerned with image (razorfish, for one) are being killed because they think everything they do is great, and they don't give a damn about what the client wants or needs. Razorfish could have been great had they hired some manages from solid, bricks-and-mortar companies to oversee their stuff, but instead they hired the same faceless arrogant eurotrash and they imploded from the inside. The key is the find the right firm in the right city, and you'll be fine. Again, its not a problem of the industry itself being weak, its a problem that all the firms that die have incredibly weak internal structure. Case in point, marchFIRST. Why would anyone want to franchise a design firm? What we're they trying to do - emulate McDonalds?
--
"Just wait until tomorrow..I guess that's what they all say..just before they fall apart.."

[ Parent ]
Two Words (3.00 / 3) (#36)
by NoNeckJoe on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 12:27:40 AM EST

Defense Contractors.

Also know as Welfare for Educated White People.

There are jobs (4.00 / 1) (#37)
by Karmakaze on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 10:25:33 AM EST

I'm not so much being laid off as my company is about to become unable to pay my salary (and I have chosen not to be paid at a food-and-rent-only level).

So, I've been job hunting, and there are jobs out there. I know because I've been getting offers[1]. My skills are actually pathetically light[2], and the salary amounts are lower than they were last year, but I am finding jobs and I've been able to turn some of them into offers.

Part of my current job involves helping place H1B consultants[3]. I get a lot of job requirements in my inbox. I'm still seeing C++ reqs. I see Oracle (DBA and Developer) positions, particularly Apps 11i. I see SAP and Siebel requirements. There are slighly fewer Admin positions, but they're still coming in - even the odd legacy system tech. What's crashed hard is the Java (and related technologies) market.

[1] I have been unable to take them, not because of my skills or lack thereof, but because I live in suburbia and cannot drive. If I could actually get to the work locations, I'd have a real job by now.
[2] For your average office worker, I am a tech goddess -- a paragon, a guru. For your average programmer, I am... a talented end user
[3] Yeah, yeah, I'm evil. One of the job offers I wanted to take was for DoubleClick, even.


--
Karmakaze

Some advice (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by cable on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 02:06:51 PM EST

1> Location location location. Sounds like you either need a carpool, a job near your living quarters, or get a driver's license and learn to drive. I didn't learn to drive until 1995, due to a fear I had of driving. Now it is just fear of driving on the highway, but I can drive on local roads. Enough to get to the Metrolink and ride the train to the city. Cheaper than downtown parking anyway.

2> If your programming skills aren't up to snuff, consider taking a course to beef them up. Or if you can't afford a course, get a book on the subject. There are plenty of C++ Help Sites you can find to help you learn the language better. That is if you have the desire to learn and improve your skills.

3> Working for Doubleclick is better than not working at all. Also if they offered on the job training, you could learn a lot from it. Then in a year or two or three, you could leave for another job if you wished, a little wiser and more skilled. I currently work for a law firm, does that also make me evil? I am just a programmer here, not a lawyer.

I take it by the "tech goddes" comment that you are a woman. You might want to read Welcome to the girl's club about help you can get from other women and groups out there. You can also try African-American Women in Technology or Association of Women in Computing or Girl Geeks or Institute of Women in Technology or Web Grrls or Women in Technology or Women In Technology International or WorldWIT if you are interested in getting help.

Good luck, it is good to know that you are looking to get a better job. Keep up the search, and I am sure you will find something. Maybe a Telecomputing job that is a work at home job?

------------------
Only you, can help prevent Neb Rage!
[ Parent ]

Thanks (none / 0) (#39)
by Karmakaze on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 03:21:25 PM EST

What I need is to get my driver's license back. I got caught in New Jersey's preposterous insurance laws and lost my right to drive for twelve months. I will be able to drive again on October 6, 2001. I'm actually very bitter about it - not because I wasn't wrong, but because the punishment was all out of proportion for the 'crime'.

I should go back and learn to program. I haven't done much of it since high school - unless you count HTML/CSS, cut-and-paste Javascript and the odd macro for MS Word. My big problem taking a course is the same problem as finding a job - I can't get to anyplace without driving.

I'd have taken the DoubleClick Tech Writing job if I could have. I'll tolerate a certain amount of evil. (It was funny though, that I had to disable the blocking in my hosts file before I could finish the application - oops!).

I used to do secretarial work for an agency and they loved me. I suspect what I'll do is go to them and let them find me contract work for a few months until I can drive again, home study whatever I can, and then start aggressive job hunting again in the fall. Feh. One of the annoying aspects of growing up is learning to settle for what you can get.

Thanks for the links and the moral support.


--
Karmakaze
[ Parent ]

Hmm.. (none / 0) (#40)
by infinitesin on Wed Apr 25, 2001 at 08:13:39 PM EST

It's not so much that some many people are being laid off, its more along the lines that the weakest companies are getting destroyed. Now more than ever, the economy is survival of the fittest, and companies that have the weakest plans and ideas are getting crushed. As a result of that, all the influx of workers that came in when the boom hit that are lacking in education are getting screwed because simply, companies are leaning towards employees that have solid degrees. This was all generally expected - you can't have growth without making money. Everyone was dealing on speculation and future potential without thinking of the realities of the current. Oh well, my double major from CMU should be fine. No worries here.
--
"Just wait until tomorrow..I guess that's what they all say..just before they fall apart.."

Ugh (none / 0) (#43)
by DJBongHit on Thu Apr 26, 2001 at 10:32:23 PM EST

I've been out of a job for 3 months now - nobody seems to be hiring. I've sent my resume out all over the place, and I always get the same answer back - "We're not hiring right now. Send your resume back in a month if you're still interested." Next month, same thing.

I've interviewed at a fair number of places around the DC area, with no luck. So I recently applied for a job as a short-order cook and bartender at a restaurant down the street.

Times are tough in the IT world right now. I couldn't have picked a worse time to drop out of school :(

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

hmm... (none / 0) (#45)
by enterfornone on Mon Apr 30, 2001 at 12:44:45 AM EST

DJBongHit: Hi, I'm calling about the job you have advertised.

PHB: Great, can I get your name.

DJBongHit: Sure, it's DJBongHit

PHB: We're not hiring right now. Send your resume back in a month if you're still interested.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
Jobs, etc (none / 0) (#47)
by smokedjam on Tue May 01, 2001 at 03:45:41 PM EST

Don't associate your resume with DJBongHit! As it stands, I've forwarded your resume to our personel department, to be filed under "smokedot.org readers". (Just kidding hehe)

Your job experience on the resume isn't good, there is nothing that says "can hold a job". Why all the short tours of duty? (You have better skills than me I'm sure, but I have more job history ;-)

Authoring a GPL thing has to be a positive tho, I downloaded it to make sure it wasn't a trivial thing. (Don't have gnome anywhere tho.) Looked interesting, but programming can sometime involve working on large projects with many people, existing code, so I wonder how a GPL project like yours really influences people. Maybe during your downtime (computerjobwise), join or contribute to a bigger project? Best of luck in any case!

[ Parent ]

Heh (none / 0) (#48)
by DJBongHit on Tue May 01, 2001 at 11:38:51 PM EST

Don't associate your resume with DJBongHit! As it stands, I've forwarded your resume to our personel department, to be filed under "smokedot.org readers". (Just kidding hehe)

Heh, I don't have any reference to DJBongHit or my relationship to Smokedot on forkbomb.net. I did for awhile, but then realized it would probably not be a great idea.

Your job experience on the resume isn't good, there is nothing that says "can hold a job". Why all the short tours of duty? (You have better skills than me I'm sure, but I have more job history ;-)

Yeah, I know it doesn't look good, but (except for my last job, which was another story altogether) I've left all those jobs for a better offer or a more interesting sounding job - not because they fired me or anything.

Authoring a GPL thing has to be a positive tho, I downloaded it to make sure it wasn't a trivial thing. (Don't have gnome anywhere tho.)

Heh, PowerShell is crap. It's crap that a lot of people use, but it's still crap. It's very poorly designed and implemented because I wrote a good portion of it while drunk, and I haven't updated it in a year. It's certainly not indicative of my coding skills.

Looked interesting, but programming can sometime involve working on large projects with many people, existing code, so I wonder how a GPL project like yours really influences people. Maybe during your downtime (computerjobwise), join or contribute to a bigger project? Best of luck in any case!

Yeah, I've kinda had my eye out for an interesting-looking project, but haven't really seen anything that inspired me.

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

[ Parent ]
H1B's still here sucking up our jobs! (2.00 / 4) (#44)
by cryon on Sat Apr 28, 2001 at 01:48:19 PM EST

But why am I not surprised that hardly any of the programmers working out there are saying anything about the H1B travesty? Because they are young and stupid. Just like the young and stupid people who went off to all those wars in the past. But now the wars are being held right here in the USA. You may call them the Employment Wars. Corps buy politicos so that they can make their investmentsright here in the good old USA without having to risk their money overseas. That's great for them, but what about the voters/workers who purportedly OWN AMerica? Their ownsership rights are diluted, and now the programmers are having a hard time finding work.

More cannon fodder for the front lines, eh?
HTGS75OBEY21IRTYG54564ACCEPT64AUTHORITY41V KKJWQKHD23CONSUME78GJHGYTMNQYRTY74SLEEP38H TYTR32CONFORM12GNIYIPWG64VOTER4APATHY42JLQ TYFGB64MONEY3IS4YOUR7GOD62MGTSB21CONFORM34 SDF53MARRY6AND2REPRODUCE534TYWHJZKJ34OBEY6

Out with the old, in with the new ! (none / 0) (#46)
by CuriousGeorge on Mon Apr 30, 2001 at 03:23:35 AM EST

Well, no one promised me a job for life. I have a few more months left in my current job as our company (non dotcom) goes thru the CH 11 process. Most of my team members have left or are preparing to leave. Most of them are finding jobs at competitors or other financial press companies. In my experience, I have found that there are usually openings (unadvertised) for the "right people". Perhaps the financial press industry is more open than others, but I can't imagine that others are much different.

I feel pretty optimistic that I will find what I want within about 6 months of searching. My background is in technical sales. I am trying to clearly define what I really want in my next job (realistically) before I start talking to target companies. I know I can DO alot of the jobs advertised, but do I really WANT TO do the job advertised? That's the 64mn dollar question.

In the meantime, I will probably renew my technical certifications and also take a few months off to recharge my batteries. I am sure my 2 year old will also appreciate seeing dad around the house a little more also. I prepared for the earthquake and saved a couple of bucks so that I would be ok for +4 months between jobs.

One humble suggestion for those in the same boat: I found these books on the web, ordered them and discovered that they are exceptional job hunting resources. You can read sample chapters posted on their web site. The books are put together by the Five O'Clock Club (non-profit ?) and based on 23 years of researching the experiences of other job hunters. They offer excellent tips and food for thought:

http://www.fiveoclockclub.com/index2.html

BTW - I am not the guy in the BMW delivering pizza to your neighbors.

Recession is near by! (none / 0) (#49)
by Ovidiu on Tue May 08, 2001 at 10:06:18 AM EST

Undoubtfully, your concern is justified. I am tracing Bloomberg and Reuters almoust everyday and my question was less social, but more business related: if every region worldwide is facing difficulties, where should investors go... so, eventually, what will happen with employment.
Lately, I went with couple of decades ago to see which were the feature of the Great Depression in '30. And I have found almoust the same seeds for a genuine crisis: the productivity increase higher than the wages increase. Nowadays technological revolution is making the world spanning faster, and faster... This is why the companies enconter such restructuring processes. At least this is my opinion.
And to give an answer for the future?! We should be careful with ensuring a longer period for the utility of a product.
As for my country job market? You don't wanna know! The access to opportunities is poor and the information regarding new position is scarce. I am concerned as well as starting up my own business, because the competition is low. However, the alternatives to invest are not so generous and the sources for venture capitalists are almoust invisible.

The Surfer
Where are the job(s)(less) going? | 50 comments (31 topical, 19 editorial, 0 hidden)
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