>>America had a track record of extreme
>>inventiveness long before the recent waves
>>of mass immigration
>Well that's certainly true. I'm not sure it
>has a bearing on today's situation where the
>US is probably more inventive than at any
>other time in its history
Yes, but what of the population that founded the US? In my own case, most of my ancestry is rooted in the very earliest British settlers of the US(as well as Native Americans). I still see some men that reflect the "Old America"-men like Kary Mullis. I do not however see leaders like Jefferson or Franklin today assuming any prominence.
and many of those
>inventions are produced by Americans, Iraqis,
>Pakistanis, Indians, Canadians, Britons and
>so on. When the US accepts immigrants it's
>skimming the creme de la creme from nations
Yes, but skimming is being done by corporate leaders. I simply don't trust the kind of sociopath that tends to rise in that world to make this kind of decision.
>across the world and I find it hard to
>imagine that doing so doesn't result in a
>concentration of skills that could never
>appear in any population just by chance.
Agreed. Now what it will really do here-and to
what extent it is stable is a real question.
>is helping to drive whole industries today
>well beyond the situation in the early 1900s.
I think you underestimate what happened between
1776 and 1910(when the big immigrations started in earnest). I also think you miscalculate how long the technical backlog is in some key areas. In computers, new advances get adopted fast-in places like construction, it can take decades.
>>As far as supply,the issue is simple, if the
>>incentives are there, over time, the supply
>Probably. But it hasn't happened yet. And
>I doubt that the education system of any
>country could produce the results of picking
>the best from every nation across the world.
Well, that is an interesting experiment-one I think that should be tried someplace. There are some carribean countries that seem to pick up the slack if the US cuts back on tech immigration BTW.
That said, as a parent, I don't want to experiment with my children's future too much-and that it what has been done here.
>One of the reasons the US is so successful at
>so many things is that it can pick experts
>from anywhere it wants whether we're talking
>about von Braun helping to get Americans into
>space or something more mundane like an
>immigrant today making ASIC fabrication a
>little more efficient.
The elites in the US have been quite successful-it isn't clear to me what connection those elites
have to the groups that founded the US. My honest sense is that we are in fact poorer, fewer in numbers, and not as good of people in many respects as our ancestors were 100 years ago. That bothers me-and I don't see immigration as making that situation better.
>>My own ancestors had to fight in the
>>Revolutionary War to get citizenship
>Well it sounds like you didn't even have to
>get a BA to earn citizenship.
This is a consequence of having ancestors that
got here early on. Heinlein has some suggestion here that would correct the issue: he suggested in his novel starship troopers that citizenship be limited to those that have done serious service(usually military service or something similarly life threatening).
>We all value different things and it's
>only right that the values of members of a
>nation are reflected in its policies.
Over 80% of the US public opposed H1-B expansion.
I think you'd find that was much, much heavier in
some areas of the US.
>You need to make clear what those values are -
> as far as I can tell from your comments they
>include valuing fighting the British
Largely because they insisted on supporting those silly German pretenders to the English throne. We Scots had a much different process of choosing leaders(Shakespeare talks about this in MacBeth). :) :)
> but not valuing generating jobs for US citizens.
Well, I don't see that satisfying jobs for those of us that were hear originally have in fact been created in greater numbers than had there been no immigration-or wealth in excess of the costs of immigration here. It has been much more expensive/difficult for me to buy a house and raise a family that it was for my parents-and I'm one of the Americans that "did what I was supposed to"-got an education, stayed drug free-and worked 60 plus hour weeks. Part of my "reward" was to work in places where people would talk about how lazy and stupid americans were(and the only image of someone of my own background came from watching stuff like "The Beverly Hillbillies", "Deliverance" or "HeeHaw"). I got a decent hourly rate by some folks standards, but I can't say it was really enough overall for the headaches and heartaches involved.
It didn't take mass immigration to sustain the US economy 100 years ago. The groups that most supported mass immigration in early 20th century were always a narrow elite-as it is now. My ancestors 100 years ago opposed mass immigration and so do I. I expect my children will also learn to oppose mass immigration as they mature. Sooner or later the process will slow down or be otherwise contained and/or we'll find someplace to go where we won't be as troubled by this phenomena and can be left in peace.
[ Parent ]