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[P]
First Trimester Report

By CheeseburgerBrown in Culture
Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:08:48 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

"My meatsack is the size of a grapefruit!"

That is the sound of my wife discovering things about the workings of her uterus (occupied), from one website or another. One of the ways we have of coping with the strangeness of my wife having somebody growing inside of her is to find things about it that make us giggle, and calling her uterus her "meatsack" has somehow ended up on that list. This is not to disparage her uterus, mind you. We're big fans of the uterus. I'm sure that it is among my wife's favourite organs. Goodness knows it can stand a little gentle ribbing. So "meatsack" it is.

That being said, my wife's meatsack is the size of a grapefruit; the person living in there is currently called Baby, and Baby's been baking for almost three months now. This is my first trimester report.


Apparently, Baby is about 10 cm tall, and half of that height is Baby's giant head. Baby's still somewhat fish-like face is experimenting with rudimentary sucking motions, and Baby takes the occasional piss for diagnostic purposes. If Baby is a girl, Baby has already grown all of her ova. Baby has taste-buds. There are all sorts of websites crammed with lurid multimedia, if you're interested in drilling down for more detail. They range from encyclopaedia-like articles and illustrated calendars to vehicles for anti-abortionist propaganda.

[ http://pregnancy.about.com ]
[ http://www.justthefacts.org/flash.asp ]
[ http://www.pregnancytoday.com ]
[ http://www.pregnancy.org ]

This pregnancy was planned only in the sense that we vaguely planned to have children one day. In the weeks leading up to our wedding, we both noticed that my normally iron-gutted lover was having trouble keeping crackers down. Next came dizzy spells and pronounced moodiness. Within days, the results of the blood-test were in: get ready for Baby.

She had been taking one of those new-fangled ultra-low dosage birth control pills that also clears up your skin. The commercials for these products are enigmatic works when viewed in Canada (where, for reasons best discussed elsewhere, the law forbids prescription drug companies from identifying what their product actually does without a doctor present to advise the patient): teen nymphettes with supernaturally clear skin hop over abstract obstacles and run around in slow-fast motion with gay men and tell us we don't need to worry anymore.

One thing not featured in the commercial is tainted tunafish.

When my wife ate tainted tunafish, she briefly became a moaning, whiny fountain of vomit. For a day, not even water would stick down. When she had recovered, we tried to be mindful of the fact that she may well have thrown up her birth control pill. That's the night Baby began. Either we were not mindful enough, her innards were storing some of my genome-propagating minions in waiting from a prior encounter, or we were lucky enough to be that small but statistically significant number of people for whom the pill fails.

Many of our friends and relatives seemed shocked and angry that somebody could become pregnant while taking the birth control pill. "It isn't a guarantee," my wife told people. Myself, I preferred to say that the pill is only effective approximately 9999 times out of 10 000 -- therefore, we must have had intercourse at least one thousand times (that's how statistics work, right?). At any rate, we were informed users of the pill and we're not about to start writing angry letters to pharmaceutical companies. We knew the risks.

It should be noted for the purposes of information that, because we did not yet know about Baby, my wife continued to employ the pill for some 5 weeks after conception. Though we had worried that this could have a significant impact on Baby's early development, this does not appear to be the case (especially with the low-dose variety of pill). So, if you end up in the same situation, don't freak out -- some women have ended up taking the pill until nearly the end of their first trimester without any apparent adverse effects. We have been told that it is less dangerous for Baby than taking aspirin.

So, although the upcoming arrival of Baby has put a serious crimp in my wife's plans to pursue her doctorate in neurolinguistics, and has caused me to reschedule (yet again) the production of my next animated short, we were still very pleased to make room for Baby in our lives. From the start, we decided to focus on the positives.

We discussed abortion. Though we both wanted to keep Baby come what may, it seemed like to good idea to make sure we saw eye to eye on the thorny issues anyway. Naturally, we'd talked about the subject before, but the conversation is different when you're talking about "Baby" rather than "a baby".

Neither of us felt like termination was a defensible option in our current situation, since it would amount to nothing more than abusing medical abortion as a form of birth control. Would we consider termination if Baby tested positive for Down's Syndrome? We decided not, after some discussion. Our policy now is that the only circumstance under which we would consider termination would be if my wife's health were to be in serious and immediate jeopardy. This is not a religious or metaphysical consideration as much as a feeling that we are already morally committed to this small thing's life. Whether or not Baby is a "person" or has a soul, we invited Baby to exist (by having sex a lot), and we intend to make good on that invitation (at least until Baby is teenaged). We wouldn't flush a fish down the toilet just because we didn't want it, so why shouldn't Baby have the same kick at the can?

Getting ready for our new lives rides between being daunting and being exhilarating. We are excitedly deciding who will speak what language when to Baby, so that Baby will have our combined competence in English, French and Latvian. We have decided to move out of our apartment and rent a house instead, so that Baby can have a backyard. I have acquired several recordings of crying babies, which I will play through the day when I am working in order to aid my acclimation to a work day of filtering Baby's caterwauling out of my consciousness (a necessity for somebody who works from home). We've ear-marked my wife's iBook as a possible first computer once Baby is ready for such things. We talk about child-proofing my office, and making sure none of our cats sleep on Baby's face. We wonder whether the dog will be jealous.

We are quickly coming to hate the way that everyone and their grandmother is a self-appointed expert in gestation if they've ever been pregnant, stood beside somebody pregnant, or just watched a lot of those Leonart Nilsson documentaries on TV.

For some reason, many mothers suffer from the delusion that their experience is universally applicable. They become sullen if you don't appear to be as enthusiastic and certain about their advice as they are. What is it about our society (or species) that causes crones to descend like vultures to a kill, squawking out as many home-remedies, rumours, anecdotes, nightmares and earnest gems of wisdom as they reasonably can while pausing to breathe? I think I might scream if one more well-meaning dotard tries to get me to acknowledge that we are witnessing a "miracle" before our very eyes. Why do normally intelligent people begin giving advice that boils down to things as nonsensical as telling us not to trust the advice of any established medical authorities, but do take heed of superstitious rumours about how living in the same house as a microwave oven will make your baby retarded.

Of course, doctors can be ridiculous about pregnancy, too. Many of them seem to view pregnancy as some kind of affliction or disease. In the event of a medical crisis, we would surely seek out treatment from a physician -- but pregnancy isn't a medical crisis in and of itself. My wife's body knows what it is doing. When it wants something, it generates a craving (she's been going ga-ga for tomato juice). When it needs more fuel, my wife gets sleepy (conscious brains are high-drain devices, after all). When it needs more fluid, she gets thirsty. Not rocket science.

Planning for the delivery day itself has been interesting, and remarkably easy. Because Ontario is such a midwife-friendly province (they are not all so) and because we live in a big stinky megatropolis, we had no trouble at all finding a conveniently located centre of midwifery. Our crack team of baby specialists is composed of a mature midwife, her padawan-learner, and an auxiliary midwife who we likely will not meet until she's paged to the scene when the dilation of my wife's cervix is complete. They are available to answer our questions at all hours of the day and night. They will facilitate all of our dealings with the hospital, and manage any testing. They will supply us with a collapsible heated birthing tub, to make water-birthing at home as simple as possible. They will visit us at home for two weeks following the delivery, assisting with getting breast feeding on solid footing if such help is necessary. Since midwives are considered primary care providers by the government, we will experience all of this care without laying down a dime. (Thank you, Ontario.)

The emotional planning had been more complex. While we are both very, very happy about the coming of Baby, it would be foolish to ignore the pockets of less enthusiastic feelings entirely. My wife is disappointed that her scholastic career has been interrupted, and she wonders what will happen to her thirst for research once she's been through the thick of some full-time mommying. She thinks about the future, and wonders who she will be other than Baby's mother and my wife.

Myself, I have had to admit to myself the presence of some amount of irrational resentment against Baby. This is partly because Baby caused our honeymoon to be considerably more filled with nausea and discussions of vaginal spotting than I had originally imagined, and considerably less hot sex. I wanted my wife all to myself for a while longer, and I am a little annoyed at Baby for taking that away. The months leading up to the wedding were so chaotic and busy, we hardly got to see one another. I miss her, and was looking forward to a few peaceful months of being focused on one another. Now, everything is about Baby.

Baby is causing a lot of upheaval in our lives, and it won't likely stop for another quarter century.

One thing I do know with fair certainty: Baby will like it here. We are happy people who like to read books, learn and laugh. We live surrounded by plants, purring cats and a dog who is ridiculously enthusiastic about life in general. Our fish don't float. We eat yummy things, and listen to music. We're playful and we enjoy games. We don't smoke cigarettes or chew tobacco. Nobody goes to sleep angry. Petty reservations fade; Baby is welcome.

Yes, I am fully aware that this posting is more mushy than Disney, and I apologise to cynical readers everywhere for whom this might have been a nauseating reading experience (just take some deep, slow breathes and eat a cracker). Unless I get pelted with tomatoes after posting this first trimester report, I will be posting second and third trimester reports in the months to come.

I thank you for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.


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Poll
I find the term "meatsack" to be...
o Vaguely offensive 13%
o Precisely offensive 3%
o Funny 32%
o Confusing 7%
o Misogynist 0%
o In need of a hyphen 18%
o Hilarious 14%
o Fattening 9%

Votes: 119
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o http://pre gnancy.about.com
o http://www .justthefacts.org/flash.asp
o http://www .pregnancytoday.com
o http://www .pregnancy.org
o Also by CheeseburgerBrown


Display: Sort:
First Trimester Report | 174 comments (113 topical, 61 editorial, 1 hidden)
Meat Sack (3.00 / 6) (#1)
by drcreations on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:44:33 AM EST

Anytime you can associate a body part with some kind of food, well .... that's comedy.

You're right! It is funny! (3.66 / 3) (#48)
by xriso on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:56:19 PM EST

Ms. CheeseburgerBrown's meatsack is growing because her husband jammed his banana into it, and she couldn't hork down enough chiclets to keep the meatsack small.
--
*** Quits: xriso:#kuro5hin (Forever)
[ Parent ]
the way you call it a baby (2.40 / 20) (#2)
by minus273 on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:46:16 AM EST

Will probably piss off alot of abortion activists. I mean tons of babies^H^H^H fetuses are killed in the first trimester heck, partial birth abortions (9 months) are legal in the US. i suppose if you want it, it is a baby if not it is a fetus. Funny how the morality of these things work... good luck with the kid

minor factual (3.40 / 5) (#12)
by streetlawyer on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:01:24 PM EST

heck, partial birth abortions (9 months) are legal in the US

Of course, they aren't.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]

Lies (2.50 / 4) (#15)
by ucblockhead on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:03:42 PM EST

What he means is that they are legal in that if the baby is so deformed that it will certainly die at birth and the mother is likely to croak if she attempts to give birth, then it is legal.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Damned lies (4.00 / 6) (#19)
by streetlawyer on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:12:33 PM EST

It is hardly honest to refer to that procedure as an "abortion" without qualification, particularly in the context of a post which is otherwise about contraceptive failure!

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
.. and statistics. (n/t) (2.75 / 4) (#41)
by gblues on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:38:24 PM EST


... although in retrospect, having sex to the news was probably doomed to fail from the get-go. --squinky
[ Parent ]
you ruined my punch line, you twink! (5.00 / 1) (#115)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 03:42:05 AM EST

Next time, post the damn statistics!

"In the vast majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along. The abortion-rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so, probably, does everyone else." -  Ron Fitzsimmons Executive Director for the National
Coalition of Abortion Providers

It is legal in about half of the US, requiring legislation to ban, but the USSC has overturned Ohio's ban. The legistalation in most of these states also only bans certain type of partial-birth abortions just making physicians attmept alternative methods, besides the dismemberment and vacuum method.

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]

they are look at this (1.12 / 8) (#90)
by minus273 on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:54:17 PM EST

http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/pbal.htm

[ Parent ]
re: the way you call it a baby (4.00 / 9) (#14)
by flimflam on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:03:11 PM EST

Interestingly enough, my wife was ardently "pro-life" before getting pregnant while I have always been "pro-choice". Actually experiencing pregnancy with all its pain, discomfort and hormone-enhanced mood-swings completely changed her mind. While we always wanted our baby (it was planned), she came to understand how awful it would be to go through the experience if you didn't actually want a child, and how awful it would be for the child to suffer the resentment of a mother who didn't want it.

Anyway -- I think that when you want a baby you refer to the fetus as a baby as a symbol of your desire rather than as some sort of objective description of what is inside of you.


-- I am always optimistic, but frankly there is no hope. --Hosni Mubarek
[ Parent ]

The real issue of abortion is not the mother (2.87 / 8) (#114)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 03:31:08 AM EST

Interestingly enough, my wife was ardently "pro-life" before getting pregnant while I have always been "pro-choice". Actually experiencing pregnancy with all its pain, discomfort and hormone-enhanced mood-swings completely changed her mind.
That is just selfishness getting in the way of both logical and moral judgement. The central issue of abortion is when the fetus is considered alive and human, not the confort of the mother or what their life may be like. Those may be factors in the decision, but they do not change the nature of the decision so fundamentally as determing if the abortion would be extinguishing human life. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we will be able to have rational discourse on the topic.

While we always wanted our baby (it was planned), she came to understand how awful it would be to go through the experience if you didn't actually want a child, and how awful it would be for the child to suffer the resentment of a mother who didn't want it.
That is brilliant! Everybody who has unwanted children should just kill them (making it past puberty would become excedingly difficult). I don't expect you to agree with this, it is merely to hilight the previous point: the abortion debate should be centered about when does life begin, not the effects of it. After we have determined this, we can begin to weigh quality of life issues.

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]
It is to laugh (3.00 / 1) (#116)
by zerth on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 06:48:44 AM EST

It is funny you should mention how long into the pregnancy it is permissible to abort. My father always told me I wasn't safe until the 57th trimester:)

Rusty isn't God here, he's the pope; our God is pedantry. -- Subtillus
[ Parent ]
argh (3.00 / 1) (#127)
by zerth on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:26:51 AM EST

curse my clumsy fingers... 75, not 57

Rusty isn't God here, he's the pope; our God is pedantry. -- Subtillus
[ Parent ]
Because mothers don't matter (2.50 / 2) (#133)
by flimflam on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 10:05:08 AM EST

Why doesn't the comfort of the mother matter? It's easy to be judgmental if you haven't lived through the experience of pregnancy and birth. Anyway, what exactly was your point -- that my wife was selfish for coming to the realization that some women (and their "babies") would be better off not having children despite the fact that she (well, we) chose to keep ours?

Anyway, we will never have a rational discussion about abortion by trying to decide when life begins because there simply isn't a simple answer to that question. To make that the sole determining factor ignores all the nuances and complexities of the situation. Now please put down the straw man.


-- I am always optimistic, but frankly there is no hope. --Hosni Mubarek
[ Parent ]

I never said sole factor, I said you weigh issues (3.00 / 2) (#147)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:30:25 PM EST

Anyway, we will never have a rational discussion about abortion by trying to decide when life begins because there simply isn't a simple answer to that question.
I never said the discussion would be simple, just that it would be rational. Life is full of tough decisions and ones about what could be murder shouldn't be decided by what is easiest, but what is correct.

To make that the sole determining factor ignores all the nuances and complexities of the situation. Now please put down the straw man.
I never said the determination of life should be the sole factor. Actually I said the oposite of that: we should weigh the issues. The central issue is when life begins because if we can determin that the fetus is not living yet, then you are not extinguishing it (i.e., not killing). It is very difficult to weigh the consequences when you don't know what they are.

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]
The "Real" Issue (4.00 / 2) (#134)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 11:33:12 AM EST

the abortion debate should be centered about when does life begin, not the effects of it. After we have determined this, we can begin to weigh quality of life issues.

I'm sorry, but that's a very foolish thing to say. To centre the morality of one divisive issue by predicating it on another divisive issue is not helpful to anyone.

Your position assumes that we all share the Judeo-Christian belief that all human life is sacred. If one takes away this assumption, your basis for debating abortion becomes instantly moot.

I'm not advocating infanticide, but you must acknowledge that the sanctity of human life is not a black-or-white point of view -- there are many, conceivable situations where killing human beings is a defensible course of morally upright action. For a simple example, any human being who breaks into my house and threatens my wife and unborn child will find themselves killed. What would you do?

My point is not to compare a violent criminal with an unborn babe: my point is that it doesn't really matter when "human life begins" because for many of us that doesn't even enter into the discussion.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
How do you compare and unborn child to a murderer? (3.50 / 2) (#144)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:20:55 PM EST

I'm sorry, but that's a very foolish thing to say. To centre the morality of one divisive issue by predicating it on another divisive issue is not helpful to anyone.
Life is full of hard dicisions. You shouldn't shy away from them. Just saying that those answers are too hard calculate doesn't mean they are still not the central issue off abortion. This is lazy intellectualism aimed at placating people and making people feel better about the decisions, not at getting to the truth.

Your position assumes that we all share the Judeo-Christian belief that all human life is sacred. If one takes away this assumption, your basis for debating abortion becomes instantly moot.

I'm not advocating infanticide, but you must acknowledge that the sanctity of human life is not a black-or-white point of view -- there are many, conceivable situations where killing human beings is a defensible course of morally upright action. For a simple example, any human being who breaks into my house and threatens my wife and unborn child will find themselves killed. What would you do?

Your strawman comparing a violent criminal to an unborn child is disingenuous. There is no common ground between the two situations, and far clearer comparison would be to compare the situation of an abortion to one where a young girl dumps her newborn child in a dumpster on the way home from the hospital. In this comparison the child is still passive and there is only a few months difference. If you think this comparison is bad because of some pain or suffering the child may experience, then try to consider the situation where a new mother brings the child home and ends its life in a painless manner. Are these appropriate comparisons?

My point is not to compare a violent criminal with an unborn babe: my point is that it doesn't really matter when "human life begins" because for many of us that doesn't even enter into the discussion.
No, that was exactly your point: to compare a defenseless unborn child to a murderer for the purpose of showing that all life is not important. However, you ignore what makes the calculation of life vary. The child has done nothing to warrant having its life terminated unlike the attacker who is threatening your life. Another more appropriate example that yours would be a killing a stranger on the street.

I know the retort: "What is the mother is in danger from childbirth? What if the child is retarded, sick, or has some other condition?" Well that was exactly my point. First you determine when life begins. If there was some test that we could agree on saying that the fetus was still not a living human, then there is no decision to terminate life, since life doesn't exist yet. Most people will not have a problem with an abortion then. If however, we have decided to call the fetus alive, then you balance the quality of life issues: will the child be healty, will the mother be able to give birth, what will the quality of life of the child be? Many people find acceptable trade-offs (such as euthanasia), but I cannot think of anybody who would suggest that killing a healty child would be acceptable.

Try not be so reactionary. You pretty much agree with me, but you are fighting it for some reason. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]

You're confused (3.66 / 3) (#151)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 02:52:51 PM EST

I'm sure I'm at least partly to blame, since I did write my post in haste. At any rate, you've missed the point by a wide margin.

My post had nothing to declare on the subject of abortion -- or murder, for that matter. The fact that you debate these points indicates that you're failed to comprehend the text. Listen:

One cannot "take it as read" that human life is sacred; therefore, to use it as a founding assumption to declare that "when is a human a human?" is the pivotal issue in the debate is just plain dumb-assed.

My post was about faulty reasoning and a bad argument, not morality. Read more carefully before you reply.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Oh yes, I see your point. (1.83 / 6) (#154)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 04:19:18 PM EST

That somewhere people think that human life is not very important. We tend to lock those people up and consider them very emotionally disturbed.

Besides that, nice strawman, unless you can point me to somebody that feels that infant like is not very important or that the life of an infant is somehow secondary to the comfort of and mother or father. In order for you to say that life is not the central issue of the abortion debate, you have to say that general personal comfort (or some other reason) take precedence. I already agreed with you that life is not the sole determiner.

This also doesn't gel very well with your claim that you are not advocating infanticide. There is no direct contradiction, but I would find it very hard for you to claim that infanticide is bad and simultaneously claim that life is not the important determiner of the decision to abort.

If you want to say that human life is not valuable, please go find another country where people will agree with you and leave mine alone.

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]

You are the funniest person I ever met. [n/t] (3.00 / 2) (#159)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 01:39:35 AM EST


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Hi! (4.00 / 3) (#160)
by ti dave on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 05:30:46 AM EST

...unless you can point me to somebody that feels that infant like is not very important or that the life of an infant is somehow secondary to the comfort of and mother or father.

No need for him to expend the effort. That would be me.
In every scenario I've considered, the mental and physical health and comfort of the Mother overrides the "desires" of the fetus.

I believe I'm not alone with this opinion.

Additional triviata: I'm not concerned over the practice of Infanticide either.
I wouldn't participate in it, but the people doing it have their reasons and far be it for me to interfere.

"If you dial," Iran said, eyes open and watching, "for greater venom, then I'll dial the same."

[ Parent ]
I am disturbed by you. (3.00 / 1) (#162)
by jjayson on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 05:56:59 AM EST

But with www.instituteforappliedeugenics.edu in your message header, I am not surprised that you do not value infant life. At what point would you consider it inappropriate for a parent to kill their child? 3 months before they are born? the day before they are born? the day after they are born? a year after they are born? 18 years after they are born?

I would just like to remind you that I am speaking about normal, healthy children and people. Disabled conditions would go underneath the quality of life issues. Now, would you like to change your statement?

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]

You don't seem to understand. (4.50 / 2) (#163)
by ti dave on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 07:08:42 AM EST

Your question, "At what point would you consider it inappropriate for a parent to kill their child?", reflects your lack of understanding.

I simply don't care what other people might do in that situation.

What I would do or not do, simply isn't binding upon other people.
It's not my place to determine "appropriateness" for the issue of abortion.

I don't have a dog in that fight.
I don't share your enthusiasm for the lofty goal of relieving world-wide suffering.

"If you dial," Iran said, eyes open and watching, "for greater venom, then I'll dial the same."

[ Parent ]
Like this! (1.00 / 1) (#152)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 02:55:55 PM EST

Babies are generally smaller than murderers, since it is rare that anyone gets the opportunity to be particularly murderous while they are small enough to be a baby. QED

There are many other bases for comparison. What's so hard to wrap your mind around?


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Excellent point (2.50 / 4) (#17)
by timbley on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:05:05 PM EST

People often mess with definitions when reality becomes inconvenient, even when it's a matter of life or death.  Just ask any lawyer!
--
YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK            FREE EARTH!
[ Parent ]
It's even worse (3.72 / 11) (#20)
by gazbo on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:12:50 PM EST

He doesn't call it a baby, but Baby on its own.

It is entirely irrational, but I loathe the way new parents, nurses etc. all use Baby as a proper noun. No I don't know why, it's irrational.

BUT JUST STOP IT OK. EVERYONE.

-----
Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

Perhaps the less academic ones... (2.66 / 3) (#25)
by quadong on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:23:35 PM EST

I'm pro-choice, and I didn't think to be offended by this until you mentioned it.  Morality should not ever (ever ever ever) be confused with semantics.  However, when debating among the population at large, I suppose you have to be prepared for the fact that the two are equated on a regular basis.

[ Parent ]
Probably doesn't irk them too much. (1.76 / 13) (#26)
by xriso on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:25:17 PM EST

After all, all they want is to be legally allowed to murder their child. Law is not morality.
--
*** Quits: xriso:#kuro5hin (Forever)
[ Parent ]
headpiece stuffed with straw. alas! (3.50 / 6) (#49)
by mcc on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:56:28 PM EST

I'm certain i'll regret replying here, but..

I've never known or heard of anyone who would be offended by seeing someone refer to his yet-to-be-born child as a "baby".

I personally, however, am generally extremely offended by the use of misrepresentation and straw-man fallacies. Do you see anyone complaining about this guy's use of the word "baby"? No? Then why are you complaining about people complaining about it? Why would you bring it up? What does your post have to do with anything?

It's easy to make any movement or group of people look stupid and unreasonable when you attribute to them opinions that you made up.

---
Aside from that, the absurd meta-wankery of k5er-quoting sigs probably takes the cake. Especially when the quote itself is about k5. -- tsubame
[ Parent ]

You are missing his point (irony). (2.00 / 1) (#112)
by jjayson on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 03:16:32 AM EST

He obviously wasn'y suggesting that the most pro-choicers would be offended by the use of Baby to describe his conceived child. This was done to hilight the a possible contradiction between what the pro-choicers say and what they subconsciously believe.

Indeed, his point is only proven by people saying that they have no problems with Baby, since that is the contradiction!

-j
"Even I can do poler co-ordinates and i can't even spell my own name." - nodsmasher
You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't
[ Parent ]

troll (2.12 / 8) (#106)
by crazycanuck on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:34:00 PM EST

there are no "abortion activists"

nobody's pushing for abortion. we want to be able to choose for ourselves. I don't give a shit if your tooth fairy god makes it a "sin" for you to choose how you want to live your life, you have no right to impose your warped ideas on others.

if they want to call their baby "baby", well, good for them. I don't see why that would bother anyone

have you noticed how, if someone decides to have an abortion, epople would use any means necessary, including harrasment (or even murder) to stop you, but if someone decides to keep it, nobody's saying "I really think you should consider abortion"  ?

[ Parent ]

So? (4.00 / 1) (#126)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:20:38 AM EST

Let 'em be pissed off. I fail to see the down side.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Interesting notions about the Pill (4.33 / 6) (#4)
by outlandish on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:49:31 AM EST

Interesting to hear you consider yourself "lucky" when the pill failed. Very enlightened. I'm a product of a similar situation: my mother was on the pill and my bio-dad was apparently using protection as well, yet somehow I came to be. A miracle bastard, you might say. To their credit, they both got behind me. Though they obviously couldn't stay together to raise me jointly, they've both been encredibly supportive of me throughout my life.

Anyhow, cheers to you. What kind of editorial commentary are you looking for? It's a bit fluffy and detailed, but the target audience (people interested in babies) should dig that.


-------------
remote-hosted soapboxing, mindless self-promotion, and salacious gossip -- outlandishjosh.com

This author watches Seinfeld (3.60 / 5) (#7)
by psychologist on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 11:55:30 AM EST

I just noticed, thats all. OK, cool, you have a baby. Nice for you.

I decided a long time ago - when I was 6, to be precise - that I wouldn't have any children. And if at all I did have any children, I wouldn't rear them myself, but will give them away to a better person.

It isn't the - there are two many people in the world argument. It isn't the - my genetics are fucked up argument either. It is the - I think I would fuck up any childs childhood if I reared them myself argument.

19 years long, and I haven't changed my opinion yet. But maybe the hormones will kick in sometime in my later years, and I will get the urge. I hope not.

A better (4.71 / 7) (#23)
by FredBloggs on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:20:12 PM EST

comedian than Seinfeld once said:

"You have a choice. You can have parties, take drugs, go abroad on a holiday at a moments notice, invite friends around to your house whenever you feel like it, build a large record collection, date many, many different women...

...or you can sit at home and smell of shit."


[ Parent ]

Nope (4.00 / 2) (#33)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:29:38 PM EST

Sorry, you mis-called it. Not a Seinfeld watcher was I.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
So, you are 19 or 25? (1.00 / 1) (#109)
by mami on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:37:48 AM EST

And why would you fuck up any child's childhood?

[ Parent ]
I'm 25 (none / 0) (#111)
by psychologist on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 02:24:10 AM EST

like I've mentioned in some other comment before this.

[ Parent ]
well good for you (1.00 / 1) (#119)
by mami on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 07:46:43 AM EST

because your self-declared "experience" in Sierra Leone and Congo would have been a little too "fancy" for a nineteen year old ...

[ Parent ]
When's she due? (3.80 / 5) (#11)
by ucblockhead on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:01:12 PM EST

My wife's due 11/21.

We're at the opposite end of the spectrum from you. Five years of serious trying, including various expensive fertility treatments yielded nada.

Then we decide that maybe a childless life might not be so bad and start planning a trip to Bora Bora.

The bing-bang-boom...apparently "we should think about birth control one of these days" wasn't fast enough.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup

The tyke will debut... (4.00 / 2) (#31)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:28:45 PM EST

...in early February 2003, near as we can figure.

I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Be ready ahead of time (4.50 / 2) (#47)
by codemonkey_uk on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 12:54:24 PM EST

Dylan was due Feb '02, but arrived Dec '01. He was also conceived whist Mum was on the pill. Not that that means anything, just saying, be ready ahead of time. Saves panic later.
---
Thad
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.50 / 2) (#53)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 01:10:32 PM EST

...for the advice. We'll ready the catcher's mitt for Hallowe'en.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
But.... expect it late too!!!! (2.00 / 1) (#118)
by bgarcia on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 07:20:30 AM EST

If they baby comes ahead of time, count your lucky stars.

You can be ready ahead of time, but expect that the baby will come late. Many 1st babies are late, and you may get anxious and worried if you're not prepared for this.

[ Parent ]

Your right ... but (2.00 / 2) (#161)
by codemonkey_uk on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 05:31:42 AM EST

Yeah, baby comes in his/her own time. Two weeks either side of due date is "normal". Of course, get into the second week of "late" and they chances are the doctors will induce labour, so you'll never really be waiting for that much longer than expected.

But this:

If they baby comes ahead of time, count your lucky stars.
Is ignorant bullshit. The list problems associated with premature birth are long, and painful. Spend some time in a neonatal unit, watching over your tiny son, attached to banks of machines, not knowing if he'll even make it out of there, let alone how long it will be till you can take him home, and try saying that "If they baby comes ahead of time, count your lucky stars". You dick.
---
Thad
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]
Not THAT early! (3.50 / 2) (#168)
by bgarcia on Fri Jul 05, 2002 at 06:07:23 AM EST

Sorry, didn't mean to press your buttons there.

Of course, I didn't meant to "be thankful" if your baby is premature. I meant to be thankful if the baby arrives before the due date, but after being considered full-term.

I just know that once the due date arrives, it's hard not to get anxious, especially for the mother.

The name-calling was quite uncalled for.

[ Parent ]

a HA HA HAHA (3.50 / 4) (#59)
by jseverin on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 01:55:17 PM EST

Ahem... Congratulations. You are IN FOR IT NOW.

Ditching the cats might be a good idea. Not worth the risk.

Oh please. (3.71 / 7) (#61)
by kitten on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 02:02:02 PM EST

What "risk"? The cat is going to suck out the baby's breath and kill it? Spare me.

Most cats I've met are better around children than most humans I've met.

Cats do just fine around babies.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Toxoplasmosis (5.00 / 8) (#83)
by dennis on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:13:14 PM EST

He may be referring to toxoplasmosis. You don't really have to get rid of the cat, but pregnant women definitely shouldn't clean out the litterbox. Details on the linked page.

[ Parent ]
Quite Right (4.33 / 3) (#88)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:37:15 PM EST

...That stinky duty has become exclusively mine. Yay.

I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0) (#170)
by jseverin on Fri Jul 05, 2002 at 12:26:00 PM EST

That's what I was referring to. Sorry I wasn't clearer, I couldn't think of the name off the top of my head.

[ Parent ]
Ask johnny about toxo-plasmo-whatsit (none / 0) (#172)
by Will Sargent on Mon Jul 08, 2002 at 02:20:38 AM EST

He's really, really pissed off at cats.  I get the feeling he might know a lot about the subject (although I haven't asked).
----
I'm pickle. I'm stealing your pregnant.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, cats are fine (4.66 / 3) (#146)
by BugCatcher on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:24:18 PM EST

We've got two cats and never had any problems. Pooh, as she is often called, slept in a bassinet for several months and Harlow, one of the cats, slept at her feet. The two of them kept up this chummy existence until Pooh got long enough to kick Harlow. Harlow wisely took up residence elsewhere. She still kept tabs on the youngin, though, and would meow expectantly at us whenever Pooh cried.

Harlow has continued to be protective of Pooh to this day, 2.5 years later. She sleeps on Pooh's bed during the day and guards her door at night.

So, poo poo to the feline-phobes. Just pay attention to what's going on and all will be good. I think the benefit of having kids grow up around animals is excellent and contributes to them being better human beings.

Are you the windshield, or the bug? Come to www.amorsley.net/bugsplat Now available in minty-fresh RDF!
[ Parent ]

Pregnancy Experts (5.00 / 5) (#63)
by tzanger on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 02:12:05 PM EST

We are quickly coming to hate the way that everyone and their grandmother is a self-appointed expert in gestation if they've ever been pregnant, stood beside somebody pregnant, or just watched a lot of those Leonart Nilsson documentaries on TV.

I think every couple goes through that. We went through it three times (each child) -- the thing my wife and I disliked most, though, was how you had to attend this silly-ass meeting about how to care for your baby, irregardless of how many children you already have. At the time my youngest was born we already had a very healthy four year old boy and a very active 15 month old girl. Yet the nurse in the meeting treated my wife as if she knew nothing about mothering or parenting at all. Unreal.

Regarding meatsack: I often refered to our children as tummy maggots whilst inside my wife. I don't know how she put up with their kicking -- my daughter would actually kick hard enough to wake me up!

One last note regarding the pill: My oldest (my stepson) was a condom-baby. My daughter was a pill (the strongest one you can get without a perscription) baby. My youngest son was a "nothing else is working better than dumb luck, so let's just stick with that" baby. :-) One thing I have been able to ascertain is that no woman on my wife's side of the family has ever had any trouble whatsoever concieving. Further investigation had shown that drinking tea (regular old tea) -- which my English in-laws do in abundance -- is known to help conception. And at least with my wife, smoking marijuana seems to nullify the pill. :-) Of course since all three were caesarian, she got snipped while her innards were laid out on her stomach -- the doc's got a 0% failure rate in the 25-odd-years he's been doing it so I think we're fairly safe now. Cut, tied and cauterized, my little soldiers are going to have to bring along their own construction and mining equipment if they want to meet up with her eggs. She sure surprized her OB when she showed up pregnant last year; she was doing a surrogacy for a friend but the OB didn't know (special fertility doc for this one).



Arg (3.00 / 4) (#93)
by ryeshy on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 05:49:52 PM EST

irregardless

Please tell me I didn't see that. Actually, I'm shocked that I'm the first one to see that vile non-word.

[ Parent ]
Read the dictionary much? (4.33 / 3) (#105)
by tzanger on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 10:37:32 PM EST

Well probably not, as it's a reference book.

Irregardless is a word, at least according to Merriam-Webster. That link actually states that "The most frequently repeated remark about it is that 'there is no such word.' There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance."

You do get a few points, though, as it goes on to say "Use regardless instead," which was probably added to placate people such as yourself. :-)



[ Parent ]
It may be a real word... (3.50 / 2) (#121)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:06:33 AM EST

...but that doesn't mean it's a good word.

Prescriptivism is only a sin if you're a linguist -- the rest of us can be as snotty as we like. 'Irregardless' is the sort of word that inevitably lowers your estimation of the speaker somewhat, like when people say things like "youse guys", "let's go see a filim" or "we was learned it by the teevie."


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
youse guys (none / 0) (#164)
by tzanger on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 01:22:28 PM EST

'Irregardless' is the sort of word that inevitably lowers your estimation of the speaker somewhat, like when people say things like "youse guys", "let's go see a filim" or "we was learned it by the teevie."

I must admit I've never thought less of a person who speaks with slightly less than textbook English. If every third word is "fuck" and I hear the same 100 words arranged in the same three basic sentence forms then yes I'll start wondering about him.

Youse guys reminds me of the Pittsburgh dialect: yuin's guys. I should start brushing up; I'll be there in a week. :-)



[ Parent ]
Irony (none / 0) (#169)
by ryeshy on Fri Jul 05, 2002 at 11:40:18 AM EST

Actually now that I think about it "non-word" is not a word...

Normally I restrain my contempt for this sort of thing.

[ Parent ]
nice read (5.00 / 8) (#71)
by fhotg on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 03:01:02 PM EST

I'm particularly impressed by your casual remarks about your plans to perform a home - water - birth. And that the province pays for that. AFAIK traditional medicine doesn't like it yet and it takes quite some education to find out that this is actually a feasible and good idea. Finally an issue where Ontario is not backwards.

Our experiences... (5.00 / 3) (#74)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 03:15:37 PM EST

...contrast sharply with that of some friends of ours who live in Alberta. In that province, the waiting list for midwives is apparently longer than nine months, which is a feat of reality-defying bureaucracy if I've ever seen one. To hear friends tell it, Alberta doctors treated the idea of a home-birth on par with self-surgery or an exorcism.

I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Albert=Germany (5.00 / 4) (#81)
by fhotg on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 03:56:50 PM EST

at least 3 years ago. If you're not able to pay mid-wifes and just-case-doc, you have to go to a hospital, where the doc might perform a caesarian just to get back home in time for the daily soap. Pregnancy and birth are widely regarded and treated as some kind of disease instead of a natural process our girls are designed to handle without highly trained gynaekologists.

[ Parent ]
Germany? (none / 0) (#120)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:01:48 AM EST

I think maybe you mean "Nazi Germany". I'm pretty sure that Alberta is more right-wing than modern, unified Germany.

...Just a nit-pick on behalf of the deutchesKfiven.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
aber aber (none / 0) (#128)
by fhotg on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 09:02:51 AM EST

I'm pretty sure that Alberta is more right-wing than modern, unified Germany.
The "=" was just meant in respect to the difficulties of getting a home-birth organized. Maybe it's better these days ... gotta ask a dad in the making.

Talking about Nazis, I doubt that in Alberta there are towns where the dominant youth subculture is "skinhead" with the favorite pasttime of beating up immigrants. There are in D.

Then there must be areas where Alberta is right-wing backwards. The righ-left categorization definitely does not work for comparing a Can. province with a Europ. country.

[ Parent ]

Oh. I get it now. [n/t] (none / 0) (#136)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:02:28 PM EST


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
You're looking in the wrong place (none / 0) (#173)
by BadDoggie on Sat Jul 13, 2002 at 05:05:30 PM EST

To find the skinheads, you have to go to France and the Netherlands. Denmark's also pretty good. And they hate immigrants a lot more there.

The dominant youth culture in Germany is pseudo-US-ghetto, with "tagging" and baggy trousers way up front. And most young girls wear Shitney Spears-type belley-show shirts, although the majority really should not.

I'm really sick of all the Nazi comments from people who've never been to Germany and couldn't find it on a map. Am I saying there are none? Of course not, but they are few (thanks to certain restrictive laws) and the majority of them are simply outsiders and unemployed looking for the most horrible thing they can find in order to be "rebels". If you're hungry and unemployed (and generally unemployable), you set your hopes on whatever might put some beer money in your pocket and food in the fridge. And you get real jealous about hard-working people who do have jobs. It's always easier to blame outsiders. Have a look at Australia. Or Spain.

When a country is utterly destroyed twice in the same centruy (moreso inside 30-some years), the population generally tends to avoid those things that might cause total destruction a third time.

You want neo-Nazi skinheads? Try Toronto. Or Quebec City. Or Paris. Or Birmingham (Alabama or UK)...

woof.

Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.
[ Parent ]

But good luck finding a paediatrician... (n/t) (none / 0) (#138)
by blamario on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:47:18 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Ha! Already got one, sucka. [n/t] (none / 0) (#141)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:58:36 PM EST

...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. :)


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Been there. Done that. (3.25 / 4) (#76)
by tbc on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 03:19:29 PM EST

I still remember what it was like to become a father for the first time eleven years ago. I look forward to the next draft of this story. I'm eager to discuss.


Why the low comment rating, scanman? (none / 0) (#139)
by tbc on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:50:06 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Meatsack (3.81 / 11) (#80)
by Silent Chris on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 03:36:59 PM EST

Any woman who refers to her "meatsack" automatically loses a couple of points of hotness in my mind.

Yeah, it's just about as hot as... (4.42 / 7) (#123)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:16:05 AM EST

...pulling a small person out of her yin accompanied by a small torrent of blood and amniotic fluid while she screams bloody murder and crushes my hand.

Obviously, the whole experience is predicated on maximising the erotic angle.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Touche (3.00 / 1) (#142)
by Silent Chris on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:10:51 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Poll answer suggestion: (3.00 / 4) (#82)
by MattGWU on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:11:09 PM EST

"Bender-esque"

hmm (4.62 / 8) (#84)
by Delirium on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:25:53 PM EST

So the "only abstinance works" conservatives were right after all...

funny (5.00 / 1) (#91)
by minus273 on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:59:13 PM EST

actually that is true..

only 100%  guranteed way of not being pregnent is ..
abstinence..

[ Parent ]
Not true. (n/t) (2.33 / 3) (#97)
by truth versus death on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 06:51:54 PM EST



"any erection implies consent"-fae
[ Trim your Bush ]
[ Parent ]
I always laugh... (5.00 / 7) (#113)
by ShadowNode on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 03:21:09 AM EST

When Christians say that, given that a central tenant of their religion involves abstinence not preventing pregnancy.

[ Parent ]
tenet /nt (5.00 / 1) (#129)
by tps12 on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 09:12:57 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Conservatives? Hell, Planned Parenthood says that! (none / 0) (#137)
by revscat on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:28:57 PM EST

Every group that has half a brain knows that the only sure-fire 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy is not to fuck. Conservatives hardly hold a monopoly on that; that's just common sense. Where most of us split with conservatives is when it comes to teaching things other than abstinence. Your doctor, even if he is a far-left Naderite, will almost certainly tell you that abstinence is the best way to prevent pregnancy. It's just not the only way to prevent pregnancy.



- Rev.
Libertarianism is like communism: both look great on paper.
[ Parent ]
More proof the human race needs progress. (3.72 / 22) (#85)
by Captain_Tenille on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:27:06 PM EST

Surely the human race has advanced to the point that we should start growing our babies in tanks rather than the barbaric, caveman like way we do now. It's more convenient, easier on the woman, easier to plan around, and she gets to keep her figure. There's no reason to put mother and child at risk when there's a better way to go about it.

Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't stop practicing making babies, but it is time to leave this primitive and dangerous way of reproducing behind us, where it belongs.
----
/* You are not expected to understand this. */

Man Vs. Nature: The Road to Victory!

MOD PARENT DOWN!!! (1.78 / 19) (#86)
by theantix on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:31:17 PM EST

That is a troll!!!  Keep on your guard, people.

--
You sir, are worse than Hitler!
[ Parent ]
It's not a troll... (3.80 / 5) (#87)
by Captain_Tenille on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 04:31:50 PM EST

...if you believe it.
----
/* You are not expected to understand this. */

Man Vs. Nature: The Road to Victory!
[ Parent ]

no you are (3.66 / 6) (#95)
by Thinkit on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 05:59:21 PM EST

That's one of the most insightful posts I've seen anywhere. I gave it a 5 and you a 1.

[ Parent ]
It's vigilant people like you... (3.50 / 2) (#166)
by majubma on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 08:48:34 PM EST

...who nauseate others to the point of running off to Adequacy, whose editors recognize that pointing out the troll is more annoying than the troll itself.


--Thaddeus Q. Thaddelonium, the most crookedest octopus lawyer in the West.
[ Parent ]
Whoo hoo! (1.00 / 1) (#167)
by theantix on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 09:20:37 PM EST

Off you go then, little bee.  If you need the address it is http://www.adequacy.org <-- click there.  I have a user account over there too, so don't go in hopes of escaping me.

Regarding your .sig:

  • I rate comments quite frequently.  I usually give 5s to my friends.  You aren't my friend, so I will give you a 2.
  • I subscribe to kuro5hin.org.  I've subscribed for a long time now, within a few days of subscriptions being available.   I think it makes me a better person.
  • My dick is substantially larger than yours.  I'd explain more, but you've already admitted it so there is no need to have a content.  It's a shame, really.


--
You sir, are worse than Hitler!
[ Parent ]
tricky stuff (4.50 / 2) (#102)
by adiffer on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 09:49:02 PM EST

I'm all for it as long as it remains a parent's decision. It's going to take a lot of money to get there though. go forth and get rich and then help us fund the research.

I predict the end result won't be a test tube. It will be something we might be tempted to call life.

-Dream Big.
--Grow Up.
[ Parent ]

+1 Section (2.00 / 3) (#94)
by artsygeek on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 05:50:40 PM EST

Because it seems interesting, and probably will provoke reaction of some sort or another...

But (4.00 / 1) (#117)
by FredBloggs on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 07:01:04 AM EST

that doesnt explain why you posted as a topical, rather then editorial, comment. Perhaps you were thinking that we could look back at your comment in a week or so`s time, and scratch our collective chin and nod and say `hmm, yeah, good point`? :)

[ Parent ]
I dunno.... (4.00 / 1) (#135)
by artsygeek on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 11:55:44 AM EST

Something screwy happened....I KNOW I selected editorial.....I may have accidentally hit one of the arrow keys, knocking it to "topical"....grrrrr

[ Parent ]
Happens to everyone... (none / 0) (#140)
by FredBloggs on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:57:07 PM EST

i guess its a `which window has focus at the point you move the mouse` thing! :)

[ Parent ]
Congratulations (2.66 / 3) (#96)
by artsygeek on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 06:27:11 PM EST

Hope things work out well, and that a happy and healthy delivery occurs. And good luck on the new family....

Future Reports (3.75 / 4) (#98)
by godix on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 07:26:23 PM EST

I'm all for a second and third trimester report as long it stops there. Years from now I don't want to see a story titled 'Second trimester of the 9th year'

My son is 243 months old... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:19:35 AM EST

...and nobody cares.

No, there will be no further reports after the third trimester, though I can't promise I won't fill my diary with all sorts of goopy crap about feeding my baby in the middle of the night and feeling all warm and fatherly and so on. It'll be nauseating, but I seem powerless to resist. Apologies.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Congratulations! (none / 0) (#171)
by gregbillock on Sun Jul 07, 2002 at 09:47:58 PM EST

As someone approximately in your situation, I really enjoyed your story. :-)

[ Parent ]
Tacit permission (4.83 / 6) (#104)
by whovian on Tue Jul 02, 2002 at 10:33:44 PM EST

Congrats, good luck, and thanks for the new perspective.

I dunno about Canadian society, but I am quite apalled by the following behavior in US society: When a woman is in the stage of advanced pregnancy (ie., "showing" quite a bit), everybody else seems to assume it's okay to touch her tummy without asking. Suddenly the baby is so important that the mother-to-be is viewed as ceasing to exist in her own right. Suddenly the world "owns" the baby. Call it love of children, acting before thinking, patriarchal disrespect, or what-not, but it really irks the heck out of me. Same goes for everyone thinking they have some advice for you too, but that is less likely as physically obtrusive.

I shudder at the coming of that phase (none / 0) (#122)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:12:07 AM EST

Well, obviously we haven't had a chance to experience that first hand yet, but we have had people warn us about it already.

I know that in general Canadians tend to be a little bit more shy than Americans, and more reserved socially (especially in terms of personal space). I don't know how this will impact their overwhelming need to grope my wife's belly.

Quite likely, they'll do all the uninvited touching the Americans do, except they say "sorry" afterward.


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
and pronounce it "sorey" /nt (none / 0) (#130)
by tps12 on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 09:14:39 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Instead of "Sari" - like the Indian outf (none / 0) (#131)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 09:22:45 AM EST


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
Strayed off topic towards the end. (3.50 / 8) (#107)
by scanman on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 12:44:54 AM EST

I want to hear more about having intercourse at least one thousand times.

"[You are] a narrow-minded moron [and] a complete loser." - David Quartz
"scanman: The moron." - ucblockhead
"I prefer the term 'lifeskills impaired'" - Inoshiro

No. (3.00 / 3) (#124)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 08:17:21 AM EST


I thank your for your attention / je vous remercie de votre attention.
[ Parent ]
I DON'T FIND THIS FUNNY (4.00 / 4) (#108)
by meatsack on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:25:47 AM EST

Not funny.

Actually it is, usually meatsack refers to the loads and shitbarges who troll around my R&D office. I wish the best, and that your kid actually doesn't become a meatsack.

not a baby yet (4.66 / 3) (#132)
by kstop on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 09:25:15 AM EST

When my co-worker got pregnant (not by me, I hasten to add), we took to calling the fetus Fetus. "How's Fetus today?", I'd say. Then she'd throw a stapler at me.

Great times.

Congratulations! (4.00 / 1) (#143)
by GuyZero on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:12:13 PM EST

So, first of all, congratulations, having a family is al ot of fun. OK, it wasn't exactly first on your priority list, but you seem to be happy about it none the less.

I also line in good ole Toronto and with our first baby we went to the Midwive's Collective om Dupont st. Nice people. Our second kid was via the Midwife Alliance on Roncevalles - I think we both found the facility and the midwives there to be nicer. Not to disparage the first bunch, but we were happier (I'm the dad, btw).

Both kids were born at home on the same futon we still have in the TV room. Prepare to get a lot of flack if you're planning a home birth. Some people think it's unsafe. We lived close to major hospitals both times so for us it wasn't a big issue - if you need to have a surgery theater prepped it's going to take a few minutes whether you're in an ambulance or whether you're sitting outside the door. The midwives come with a lot of equipment and were very competent.

I question the idea to have a water birth however - I'm surprised that your midwife would agree to it. Home births are not necessarily unsafe or unnatural but I've been told that water births are both. Birth is stressful for the baby because it's supposed to be that way. The baby's head will spend a long time in the birth canal, especially for a first birth and I don't think it's such a hot idea to have the head underwater all that time. There's a serious chance of having the baby either swallow or inhale a serious amount of water. I suppose if you're both comfortable with it then go for it, but  you should would check it out in detail first.

Anyway, enjoy the pregnancy while it lasts because eventually look back on it as the last few quiet moments of your life.

Ethan

Water birth (5.00 / 1) (#153)
by CaptainFlyingToaster on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 03:48:12 PM EST

Actually, it's not terribly likely that the baby would inhale (aspirate) any of the water.

First, neonates typically need to be stimulated to begin breathing on their own.  This stimulation is provided by cleaning out the neonate's airways and by toweling the baby dry.

Second, one of the strongest reflexes in the human body is the gag reflex.  Even people who have drown to death only have about 5cc of water in the trachea and lungs.  Any water taken on by the baby would go into the stomach, which isn't a big deal.

CaptainFlyingToaster, EMT


[ Parent ]

About all that advice (none / 0) (#148)
by BugCatcher on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 01:37:00 PM EST

Yes. That is almost as annoying as morning sickness. As a formerly pregnant person, I still shudder at the memory of people giving unsolicited advice. And then, when you're carrying around the child post-birth, it still comes at you. By then I was happy to show her off, she was a lot of work to create, but didn't really need to hear everybody's pet theories about child rearing. And our daughter was extra small, being 9 weeks early. I don't know how many times I had to explain that yes, she is very small, but she is just fine.

The key thing is that you will know your child better than anybody. You've got some ideas on how you want things to go in your family and if you remember to be flexible in the face of reality, some of those theories can actually be put into practice.

Stick to your instincts. When you have a question, ask someone you trust and respect, and even then, evaluate the answer in terms of what you know. And have fun, jeez they're fun little creatures.

Are you the windshield, or the bug? Come to www.amorsley.net/bugsplat Now available in minty-fresh RDF!

Who needs a pregnancy test? (none / 0) (#149)
by tapir on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 02:24:34 PM EST

    My wife and I were dead set about having kids for a long time.  Last summer she made good friends with a woman who had a kid and I did some volunteering around a soup kitchen.  By then we decided that we were probably going to want to have kids someday and we might as well do it now -- from enduring pregnancy and birth to dealing with the stress of parenting it will only get worse as we get older.  And the earlier we have them,  the more our lives will overlap...

    For a while we practiced fertility awareness and avoided having sex when she was fertile.  Then we decided to aim for the fertile period and we succeeded on the second try.

    The effects of early pregancy were pretty obvious,  leaving us wondering why anybody needs to get a pregancy test -- perhaps some people are so out of touch with their body they won't believe it until they piss in a cup.

    Now my wife is eight months pregnant and if she makes it another week our midwife will be able to deliver the baby at home.  It should be a trip.

Who needs it (none / 0) (#150)
by enry on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 02:31:18 PM EST

My wife and I tried for about 6 months.  Believe me, if you're going at getting pregnant for more than two months, you'll want to know when you finally make it.  At the very least, she will know that it's not food poisoning that's making her ill.

If you'll pardon me, I need to go ice my loins.

[ Parent ]

the pill.... (4.33 / 3) (#156)
by f00b4r on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 07:12:15 PM EST

Yes, it is true... women become pregnant while on the pill. Statistics show its ~95% effective or so. The reason that it is only 95% effective is because people don't use it properly. If you miss a pill, it is probably OK to continue to have unprotected sex for the rest of the cycle... When this happens my nerves are somewhat calmed if sex is put off until the following day when the pill is taken on time (I have no idea if this reduces the risk of pregnancy but it seems to make sense). If you miss two pills during the cycle, play it safe and wait until the next cycle to have unprotected sex.

Birth control would be so much more effective if people used it correctly. Read the directions, and more importantly follow them =) If there is any doubt, use a condom (correctly).

I was glad to read that you are looking forward to "Baby". Best of luck.

95? that sounds dubious (5.00 / 2) (#158)
by mikpos on Wed Jul 03, 2002 at 07:56:02 PM EST

The number I've always heard for the pill is 99.5%. This number is not just an ordinary number, though; it's always expressed by some convoluted metric. The full statistic that I've heard is, I believe, something like "a woman who takes the pill and has sexual intercourse regularly for one calendar year has a 99.5% of not becoming pregnant", where "having sexual intercourse regularly" I believe is defined as once per week.

With a bit of arithmetic, I believe this comes to a 99.990% success rate if you measure the pill on a per-sexx0ring basis.

Mind you I haven't had any sex ed classes in at least 5 years, so that number of 99.5% is likely off by a bit.

95% sounds terribly low, though, maybe even condom low. Do you remember where you got that number? I'm more than willing to admit that my number's wrong if you can dig up a link.

[ Parent ]

talk about a late reply (5.00 / 1) (#174)
by f00b4r on Sun Aug 04, 2002 at 10:15:47 PM EST

Here is the link I got my information from (give or take):

http://www.arhp.org/successv2/question3.pl

Different manufacters of the pill list different numbers, so 99.9% could be just as accurate.

[ Parent ]

tomato, tomahto (5.00 / 3) (#165)
by majubma on Thu Jul 04, 2002 at 08:16:24 PM EST

This is not a religious or metaphysical consideration as much as a feeling that we are already morally committed to this small thing's life.

In other words, this thing on my head is not so much a hat as it is a cap.


--Thaddeus Q. Thaddelonium, the most crookedest octopus lawyer in the West.

First Trimester Report | 174 comments (113 topical, 61 editorial, 1 hidden)
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