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The Big Payback: Revenge.

By blixco in Culture
Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:27:57 PM EST
Tags: Round Table (all tags)
Round Table

We've all been in situations that called for revenge. Whether you've been cut off in traffic, or have been laid off with no prospects, or had a significant other cheat on you, had a parking space taken, or if you've been swindled, you've probably wanted revenge. Revenge is an idea as old as man. What's your favorite revenge story? Do you have pointers you'd like to share with others? How do you feel about doing unto others?

Forget karma, there are times where a little ass-kicking is required. You wake up one morning, everything is perfectly OK, and by the end of the day you've been wronged. Could be that your significant other has skipped town with your boss, who just fired you despite being the best performer at work. Could be that you got a ticket for going 56mph in a 55mph zone, and the cop demanded a strip search for your suspicious behavior. Maybe, on the way to pick up the paper, you stepped in the neighbor's dog's pile-o-poop. Even here, on the venerable Kuro5hin, you may have been slighted by a zero rating, or an undeserved beating. The list of possible offenses is infinite.

In this modern world of today, your choices for dealing with these situations are limited to either a socially acceptable method (turning the other cheek, suing someone, law enforcement, etc.) or a not-so-accepted but universally practiced method: do unto that bastard what he hath done to you, and exact your revenge.

Revenge itself has been a subject of discussion for thousands of years. The Code of Hammurabi is revenge as law. The ancient Greeks had Nemesis, the goddess of divine retributive violence. Most cultures and religions deal with the concept of revenge. The philosophy has been dealt with, though, and that's not really what interests me, though the morality of revenge should certainly be discussed.

Better than getting caught in the morass of moral discussion, I'd like to focus on your best revenge stories (from any angle or aspect).

An example: I worked for a very small "budget" software company that made education programs (really just tutors talking to a video camera with some VB thrown around it) and simple, yet stupid, games. It was the type of software that you'd find at the bargain bin of Wal-Mart(tm). You'd never see this stuff in a software store. I worked in phone support. My boss, a young gentleman (we'll call him Oscar) was somewhat computer-literate: he knew just enough to be the boss. Imagine every annoying tech-manager habit rolled into one 300 pound 25 year-old chain smoking package. He managed in the course of six months to force me to quit, and convinced the owners that my friend and co-worker had stolen from the company (which got my friend investigated and fired). My friend (let's call him Manson) decided to get a little revenge. I can't reveal the details because I just don't know them all, and Manson refuses to incriminate himself, but the net result was fantastic: Oscar, divorced, penniless, living on his parent's couch in another city, incapable of being hired or getting a credit card.

What are your experiences with revenge? Are issues of morality or law preventing you from getting a little personal justice? Do you have any revenge fantasies? Well, drag 'em out, and don't hold anything back.


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Revenge is...
o ...good 5%
o ...bad 8%
o ...a dish best served cold 36%
o ...sweet 15%
o ...morally reprehensible 22%
o ...other 11%

Votes: 224
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Kuro5hin
o cut off in traffic
o laid off with no prospects
o cheat on you
o parking space taken
o swindled
o Code of Hammurabi
o Nemesis
o Also by blixco

Display: Sort:
The Big Payback: Revenge. | 385 comments (383 topical, 2 editorial, 1 hidden)
Can I get the.... (3.66 / 3) (#1)
by bayankaran on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:21:53 AM EST

...movie rights of Mansons juicy revenge on fat bloke Oskar. We can do it from your point of view.

The best revenge is living well. (4.62 / 16) (#2)
by graal on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:24:44 AM EST

It's trite, but true.

I heard someone say once that the opposite of love isn't hate, but apathy. I'm not so sure I agree with that, but I'd much rather expend my energy somewhere else than burning a single calorie dealing with someone who wants to drag me into some sort of cosmic pissing match.

Besides, I firmly believe that everyone (eventually) gets what they deserve, even me. And I try to live accordingly.

For Thou hast commanded, and so it is, that every
inordinate affection should be its own punishment.
-- St. Augustine (Confessions, i)

Outstanding. (4.50 / 2) (#3)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:30:08 AM EST

I'm a firm believer in karma, myself. That being said, I've gone out of my way to extract justice....but only twice.

Yes, it's best to thwart your "enemies" with a good, long life. I'm just all about impulse sometimes, though, and it would really feel good (from a gutteral, animal level) to plant my boot in the face of the guy my wife works for, for all the problems he has caused her.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

Mine is not so much a belief in Karma... (4.25 / 4) (#4)
by graal on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:34:02 AM EST

...but rather a recognition of God as infinite love, but also infinite justice. Ouch.

For Thou hast commanded, and so it is, that every
inordinate affection should be its own punishment.
-- St. Augustine (Confessions, i)
[ Parent ]

I believe Hawthorne (none / 0) (#96)
by Fon2d2 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:17:10 PM EST

asked whether or not Love and Hate are indeed the same emotion in the Scarlet Letter, but it's been a long time since I read that so don't take it too literally. Personally I see them as largely the same. They are both very strong emotions, or capable of being strong. And both seem to be brought about by the same underlying motivations. Apathy on the other hand is the complete lack of emotion and almost feels like death. That sets both love and hate on the opposite end of the spectrum from apathy. In fact I would say love and hate differ in only one minute detail, and that that detail is very perceptually subjective. Witness how eaily love can transmute to hate and vice versa whereas apathy is always miles apart from either. I won't even try to define what love is but I think hate can be defined in terms of love. I'm not going to try to clear that up either because the more I think about it the more my head spins. Some things you just have to understand in a visceral if not an analytical sense. That can make it hard to explain beliefs.

[ Parent ]
the opposite of love isn't hate, but apathy (none / 0) (#119)
by majik on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:11:43 PM EST

This has worked for me soooo well when things have gone wrong in a relationship. Its quite interesting to find out years later that someone has spent so much time feeling very bad for what they did. The high road is a good path to take.
Funky fried chickens - they're what's for dinner
[ Parent ]
I don't want to give away all my secrets (2.60 / 10) (#5)
by theboz on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:37:06 AM EST

Anyway, my revenge is always legal, at least 10 times worse than the wrong that was committed against me, often carried out by others, and just plain evil, yet you can laugh about it. That's about all I am going to say, other than I use a lot of strategy, and I have no problem with waiting to exact my revenge on someone until the time is right.


Ok, what's the patent number? (nt) (none / 0) (#43)
by khallow on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:49:33 PM EST

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

Was she a mindless bimbo? (5.00 / 4) (#50)
by DodgyGeezer on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:09:11 PM EST

someone who I thought was a friend crossed me by stealing the girl I was going out with.
This is just an observation about society as your statement is very common: what you said implies that your girlfriend had no choice in the matter, that she was helpless and didn't really want to go on date with your friend. If my wife cheated on me with my friend, I would be more upset with her than he as she is the one who has made a lifelong commitment to me, and supposed to be my partner in life. If she cheats on me, that's her choice, and and not 100% down to the other person's charms.

[ Parent ]
You replied to the wrong person (N/T) (none / 0) (#53)
by theboz on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:13:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Bugger! (none / 0) (#55)
by DodgyGeezer on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:15:37 PM EST

Somebody interrupted me just as I was about to hit reply :(

[ Parent ]
That's not what I think now... (4.33 / 3) (#77)
by atreides on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:40:10 PM EST

...but it's what I thought then and why I did what I did. The reason I felt so put that I had to take some kind of revenge is because back then I wasn't the smooth operator that you all think I am now. In fact, I had a lot of trouble with women back then. There were a lot of things I didn't know. I didn't know that confidence is key or that what women want and what they say they want are sometimes two different things. More importantly, I didn't know that someone not going out with you any longer didn't mean that they hate you, only that you might not be what they're looking for.

I could go on for days about what I didn't know then. The important part is that I could have never taken it out on her. The idea of hurting her was anathema.

I've got a different perspective on it now, but I still don't think I could hurt her, even is she did something bad to me. Well, actually, if she did something truly evil, they I probably could, but that's never happened to me and, God willing and the creek don't rise, it never will...

"...heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
[ Parent ]

Yeah, but it's understandable. (none / 0) (#288)
by Karellen on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 06:30:02 AM EST

When I first realised that, that it's your SO who has done wrong, not the new person in their life, it was like an epiphany. It was so obvious, but why hadn't anyone else thought of it before?

So I spent a while telling friends and acquaintances when this happened to them that they should stop being mad at the person who `stole' their SO, and be mad at their SO for leaving them.

Then it happened to me.

The first time it happened to me after this epiphany, I tried to put in into effect and direct my anger at her but realised I couldn't. Why? 'Cos I still loved her.

Much as in my head I'd realised that she was the one who'd wronged me the most, my heart didn't want to hurt her back. So I directed my anger at her new SO. Just like everyone else does.


[ Parent ]

Geek Mafia (5.00 / 8) (#63)
by Christopher on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:22:21 PM EST

When he was in high school a friend of mine created a "Geek Mafia". Whenever anyone was picked on, bullied, roughed up, etc, they could go to him. He had his "office" in a particular hallway, where he'd sit playing Magic and smoking a stogie.

The deal was: he'd make sure that whoever wronged you paid for it, and that they didn't bother you again. In return, you were responsible for rallying the troops the next time someone was picked on. It was a smashing success. Once he exacted justice for someone, they were not just willing to return the favor, but eager, and they became an army.

In the end, legend has it, the bullies of the school learned that they were up against larger, and more determined forces. The kids who were picked on learned that they had more power than they thought, and formed a very tight-knit community at the school. The bullying stopped, and the Aca Deca team went to State. (So the story goes.)

Hell, this story still brings a tear to my eye...

more and more to do, less and less to prove
[ Parent ]

Having gotten revenge on people before... (4.41 / 12) (#6)
by atreides on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:40:00 AM EST

...it's great if you can get them quickly and/or poetically, but it's when it consumes you that it becomes a problem.

Once, when I was in college, someone who I thought was a friend crossed me by stealing the girl I was going out with. I knew they were going out on a date so some friends of mine and I prepared a little surprise for him. When he went in to get her for their date, we filled his car to bursting with shaving cream. That was priceless. And that was good revenge. I had a good mad on and I got back at him. And I continued on with my life from that point free of that baggage.

Another certain person comes to mind. He borrowed $2000 from me and never paid it back. In fact, he managed to disappear into oblivion. I spent a long time planning to take that money out of his ass, breaking one limb at a time. This was bad revenge. I spent years consuming myself with that anger, spending energy on something that wasn't really worth it. Many years later, I realized that for the cost of this money, that I would have spent by now, I got a terrible person out of my life before he could do something really painful or damaging. I spent years hating someone who, ultimately, didn't even deserve my attention.

At this point in my life, I don't even bother any more with such things. I find that the same people who screw me over usually get screwed over in a similar way or get screwed over because they've alienated every good person out of their life. And when they come back to me because they're in trouble or need a favor or they're in trouble, I can say NO and remind them how they screwed me. That has turned out, for me, to be the perfect poetic revenge. They reaped what they had sown and I was living well. And it doesn't get any better than that. :)

"...heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

money (5.00 / 7) (#44)
by squinky on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:53:28 PM EST

Any time you loan money to family, friends, acquaintences, you should think of it as a gift. If they pay you back-- great, but realistically, many times, you'll never see it again.

If you can't afford to lose the money, you can't afford to lend it.

Dont *tell* them it's a gift of course.

[ Parent ]

I know that NOW... (4.00 / 1) (#71)
by atreides on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:31:56 PM EST

...but back then, I was a little...more eager to please. If knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have had thing one to do with this person. Actually, I take that back. I had some good times with/because of him. luckily, the statute of limitations has run out on all of it so I can talk about it... :)

"...heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
[ Parent ]

Unless (4.00 / 3) (#73)
by skim123 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:32:03 PM EST

Any time you loan money to family, friends, acquaintences, you should think of it as a gift. If they pay you back-- great, but realistically, many times, you'll never see it again

You don't really want them as a friend anymore. In which case you charge them interest, set out a reasonable payment schedule, have them sign the needed documents, and call a collection agency when they fail to pay on time.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum

[ Parent ]
I know what you mean (4.40 / 5) (#45)
by FourDegreez on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:53:56 PM EST

There was this lowlife degenerate who had been friends with my dad as a kid. When things got rough for him, he'd come over to our house, usually drunk, looking for some sympathy. He slipped and fell once on our property and filed a claim on it, got our insurance to pay. Our rates went up after that. Well one day he borrowed some money from my dad, in the neighborhood of $50 I think. But you know what? It kept him from coming around anymore because he didn't want to pay it back. My dad says it was the best $50 he ever spent. Where is this guy today? In prison as a sex offendor, and suffering from leukemia. Karma works, man.

[ Parent ]
Was she a mindless bimbo? (none / 0) (#58)
by DodgyGeezer on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:17:07 PM EST

Sorry, this requires a level of indirection.

[ Parent ]
Best revenge ever (4.85 / 54) (#7)
by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:40:15 AM EST

Someone I know had his fiancée die from leukemia. He was 20, she was 18. He wanted revenge, but how?

5 years later he heard a call for donors on television: a young girl was dying from leukemia, only a medulla transplant could save her. He answered that call. Was compatible. His gift saved the girl. Revenge, at last.

He gave medulla two more times. He says it's painful but it's worth it. He stole back three lives from the illness that stole him one. He's 36, married and kids now, and he still hopes he'll have the opportunity to get more revenge. And would like to have more people helping him steal more lives from leukemia by registering as medulla donors.

As long as there's hope...

Excellent! (n/t) (3.00 / 2) (#8)
by graal on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:41:32 AM EST

For Thou hast commanded, and so it is, that every
inordinate affection should be its own punishment.
-- St. Augustine (Confessions, i)
[ Parent ]

You don't understand the concept of revenge (2.63 / 11) (#10)
by fhotg on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:56:00 AM EST

It's about inflicting pain and misery onto human assholes for your own satisfaction.

Charitable bahaviour does not qualify.
Gitarren für die Mädchen -- Champagner für die Jungs

[ Parent ]

It takes all kinds..... (4.50 / 2) (#13)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:01:22 AM EST

....and fits all different definitions. I'm all for the charitable response / live well in the face of your adversity stuff, but I'm also a big fan of kicking some ass when ass needs to be kicked.

The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

Why do you restrict revenge to humans? (4.50 / 6) (#19)
by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:21:58 AM EST

You never kicked a car or swore at a computer?

As long as there's hope...
[ Parent ]
Sentience. (3.20 / 5) (#21)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:26:42 AM EST

I want the subject to understand why this is happening to them. That's why I don't hit animals.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]
Animism (4.66 / 3) (#26)
by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:45:38 AM EST

Animism is my alibi.

More seriously, I think the key is the intent. My friend does not care about the people he helped save. He sees it as thwarting leukemia, which he considers a personal enemy with an evil will of its own. I'm not sure he's completely sane.

Disclaimer: I kicked my car, swore at my computers, threw stuff at my TV, so I'm not completely sane either. I also spoke to the dead, but as long as they don't answer, I guess it's OK.

As long as there's hope...
[ Parent ]

Because else it doesn't work (3.66 / 3) (#32)
by fhotg on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:10:13 PM EST

Sure I kicked cars .. but only to piss off the driver / owner who deserved my wrath.

I never swear at computers, maybe at those dumbfucks who wrote that poor excuse for a piece of software ...

I think revenge makes only sense if applied to someone who feels or gets pissed off. Hardware and illness ... hmm .. no.
Gitarren für die Mädchen -- Champagner für die Jungs

[ Parent ]

I Vehemently Disagree (5.00 / 6) (#49)
by thelizman on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:05:59 PM EST

We take revenge on animals all the time. We take revenge agains corporations and make a big stink about it. Corporations aren't humans, but are entities which enjoy certain rights as individuals under the law.

Revenge is not about inflicting suffering on another. That's mindless. Instead, revenge is about righting a wrong that was done unto you through no fault of your own. Hell, this guy has the sweetest revenge there is precisely because there is no human suffereng through his actions (maybe his own).

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
me too (4.00 / 1) (#138)
by fhotg on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:01:55 PM EST

For me it's impossible to take revenge on animals or corporations. If you do, please give an example.

Revenge is not about inflicting suffering on another
That's exactly what it is about. The satisfaction you get sticking it to somebody who made you suffer. That's not mindless, it satisfies a deep seated desire. It doesn't work with companies, but with managers. People who do harm to animals as 'revenge' are sick. Revenge as such is irrational, and highly developed people (like saints) with functioning ethics don't do this.
revenge is about righting a wrong ..
bullshit. The wrong is done, you can't right it. You can do just more wrong. That's .. wrong and fun.
Gitarren für die Mädchen -- Champagner für die Jungs

[ Parent ]
I disagree (4.00 / 1) (#79)
by bigsexyjoe on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:43:34 PM EST

Charitable bahaviour does not qualify.

Oh yeah, what about Robin Hood? He got revenge in a charitable way.

Also, the correct spelling is "behavior." One day the god of spelling and grammar will get revenge on all of K5; and it won't be charitable.

[ Parent ]

Hood (none / 0) (#141)
by Happy Monkey on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:22:25 PM EST

Ah, he only did that because it put the finishing touch on pissing off the sheriff.
Length 17, Width 3
[ Parent ]
Behavior (5.00 / 2) (#245)
by J'raxis on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:13:38 PM EST

No, it is spelled behaviour, unless you happen to be American.

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

excellent spin! n/t (4.80 / 5) (#17)
by Run4YourLives on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:19:25 AM EST

It's slightly Japanese, but without all of that fanatical devotion to the workplace. - CheeseburgerBrown
[ Parent ]
You people modded this up? Christ almighty... (3.16 / 6) (#57)
by Phelan on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:16:48 PM EST

from http://www.ets.uidaho.edu/med532/medulla.htm

medulla (ma duel' uh)

"It is the caudal-most part of the brainstem and contains many sensory (ascending) and motor (descending) tracts....Thus, if the integrity of the medulla is compromised, vital functions are compromised and death often results. "

You people didn't know the medulla was what controlled your autonomous nervous system? I doubt very seriously that this guy actually gave his brain stem as a donation 3 times. The first time would have killed him.

[ Parent ]

Bah. Translation mistake (5.00 / 7) (#62)
by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:21:07 PM EST

What in French is called moelle translates to medulla or to bone marrow. I checked, the proper English word in this particular case is bone marrow.

My bad.

As long as there's hope...
[ Parent ]

O Sht, noww U tel mee (ne tae) (none / 0) (#215)
by pyramid termite on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:35:05 PM EST

"I forget, in a certain way, everything I write, doubtless also, in another way, what I read." - Jacques Derrida
[ Parent ]
bone marrow... (5.00 / 2) (#334)
by Phelan on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 08:41:08 AM EST

Well, that would seem to make a lot more sense for leukemia ;)

[ Parent ]
Law, Justice, Morality. (4.33 / 3) (#11)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:56:15 AM EST

So, it's one thing to say that revenge is a Bad Thing(tm) in concept and execution. You're acting as judge, jury, and executioner, and there's no justice in that.

Where, then, does criminal law fall into that picture? You have a crime, and society demands payback. You place the criminal in front of some lawyers, a jury (sometimes), and a judge, and justice is delivered. Whether it be a jail sentence or a death sentence, punitive response is the end result.

Who's to say that your justice, your "revenge" is any more or less deserving? Outside of simple self-interest, you might be doing society a favor. There's no law against being a jerk, but we deal with them all the time, in a pethora of ways. How do you deal with the guy who takes a cell phone call at your grandmother's funeral? You certainly don't dwell on revenge, but you do pay them back in some way, either with a corrective stare or a punitive response.

Isn't our entire form of criminal justice geared towards revenge? Nothing else explains the death penalty: proponents will often use the "eye for an eye" analogy. Even civil suits are a type of revenge. You don't sue someone for no reason, typically.

Those discussions are larger in scope than I hint at in the article, but are important considerations. Revenge isn't always a petty come-uppance. It's oftentimes the method we use to keep society from falling apart at the seams. The threat is implied, and the people respond.
The root of the problem has been isolated.

Good point, but... (4.50 / 2) (#68)
by Ni on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:27:58 PM EST

This is a valid point, of course, although I would have gone in the other direction with it (and attack on the justice system rather than a justification for revenge). However, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who knows what they're talking about (I suppose judges and philosophers would be examples) who will use vengeance as a justification for the justice system.

More common justifications are:
* Safety of the society
    By having the inmate incarcerated, he'll have a hard time hurting others in society.
* Rehabilitation
    Although almost certainly hopeless with the current implementation of the jutice system, in theory the system could be used for rehabilitation.
* Deterantcy (is that even a word?)
    Probably the most common and best working facet of the justice system.

Even a lot of the supporters of capital punishment are hesitant to use vengeance as justification, often instead basing their arguments are cost savings for the society.

So anyway, you're right, but only against people who are silly enough to try to justify the justice system with revenge.

But it's a sweet sadness, much better than the empty horrors of the world. --blixco
[ Parent ]

Yep. (none / 0) (#72)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:31:58 PM EST

This is why I (oh boy, this is going to hurt my comment ranking) do not support law or authority.

Ahem. That being said, vengeance is used as the enforcement / punitive portion of the law. Your examples hold true, and in fact are true, but the nature of the punishment is: you done me wrong, son, so I'm gonna' do you wrong.

I link to this below, but it's a good read from the Christian / moral standpoint.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

I object to this article as a buddhist (3.62 / 8) (#14)
by boxed on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:01:42 AM EST

Forget karma, there are times where a little ass-kicking is required.
That my dear sir is a paradox. You think karma only works through rebirth? Not even close! Karma is sanskrit and means "action", plain and simple, and this is what it is. Good action increses your chances of having good actions done to you, and the reverse for bad actions.

Karma isn't some religious mumbo-jumbo, it's the simple law: every action has an opposite and equally big reaction.

Great! (none / 0) (#15)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:05:05 AM EST

I fully support your objection to this article. I'm a big fan of good intent / right thought, etc. Huge fan. But I've been known to have poor impulse control. That's a bad trait.

Thus, I don't seek retribution at all. I think about it...heck, I fantasize about it. And that's where this article comes in: what would you *like* to do, karma aside.

And you'd like to do good, and that's great. Thanks for the comment.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

yah...The Tao of Pooh (3.75 / 4) (#20)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:25:03 AM EST


I agree with the Buddhist. My moral guide has always been to ask myself: What would (the pre-Disney) Winnie-the-pooh do?


Winnie the Pooh would vote this story +1 because he secretly fantasizes about the wrong doing of others (call it the catharsis effect), but Pooh would certainly object to seeing this story on the FP.

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
POOH IS PISSED (4.00 / 1) (#59)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:17:50 PM EST

This story made FP:-(

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
I object to this article as a human (3.00 / 6) (#22)
by 8ctavIan on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:26:59 AM EST

Revenge is the "deadly" sins of anger and pride manifesting themselves. There's a lot of literature out there about revenge. It's a lot like drinking too much. You might feel great downing that booze, but later you'll pay. The Chinese, who have been providing us with wisdom for over 7000 years, have a saying: 'When you set off on the path of revenge, first dig two graves'. That pretty much sums up the wisdom of seeking revenge.

Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice. -- H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

Better yet.... (3.33 / 3) (#23)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:30:12 AM EST

...here's a link that supports that.

However, you'll note that quite a few respondants have had "revenge" exacted in some unusual, refreshing, and very "nice" ways. You'd have to skew the definition a bit.

The spirit of the story, though, is banter. Chatty, ridiculous fantasizing for a Friday. Bravado and bragging. Chest thumping and morality don't play well in this pool, but I invite it all.

That is, as has been noted, the best revenge.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

Reinterpretation (4.00 / 1) (#192)
by Osty on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:36:09 PM EST

The Chinese, who have been providing us with wisdom for over 7000 years, have a saying: 'When you set off on the path of revenge, first dig two graves'. That pretty much sums up the wisdom of seeking revenge.

That's one way to interpret that quote. Another way would be (attributed to Mary Gentle, from the Book of Ash series) that revenge is served best when you have nothing to lose. In otherwords, dig two graves (metaphorically) and be prepared to die, because if you're ready and willing to accept whatever consequences, there's nothing you can't do.


NoPopIE, Internet Explorer popup killer (win2k/xp only, for now).

[ Parent ]
Every actions has an opposite... reaction? (2.60 / 5) (#24)
by Minion on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:37:55 AM EST

"every action has an opposite and equally big reaction" The opposite action to a good action is an evil one. Therefore, if you do something really good, a great evil will be perpetrated on you. Thanks, but no thanks.

[ Parent ]
Ever heard the saying... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
by guyjin on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:23:39 PM EST

Ever heard the saying 'no good deed goes unpunished'?
-- 散弾銃でおうがいして ください
[ Parent ]
dude, take physics (2.66 / 3) (#93)
by boxed on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:11:42 PM EST

Opposite in DIRECTION not in force. Opposite in force would be rather strange, and often down right impossible.

[ Parent ]
I know physics, read it again. (5.00 / 1) (#98)
by Minion on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:22:49 PM EST

An equal and OPPOSITE reaction to a 100% good action is a 100% evil action. Same force, different direction.

[ Parent ]
No no no... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
by DanTheCat on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:34:19 PM EST

You seem to have a problem distinguishing between good and evil. Just because good is the opposite of evil does not mean they are the same force. How it would be is, you do good to others, directing good outward, and others do good unto you, directing good inward (back to you). Same force, different direction.

Doing good and recieving evil back would violate the laws of physics! I was trying to think up a clever analogy, but I didn't do very good in Physics class.

Dan :)

I was in need of help
Heading to black out
'Til someone told me 'run on in honey
Before someone blows your god damn brains out'<
[ Parent ]

What does buddhism (none / 0) (#216)
by MoonVine on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:51:13 PM EST

have to do with a notion/concept/idea like karma?

[ Parent ]
true enough, it's basically hinduism... (none / 0) (#234)
by boxed on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 07:14:15 AM EST

...but karma is a fact of life really, and I wanted to clear up the authors strange opinion of how it works.

[ Parent ]
Revenge is so, so sweet (4.20 / 15) (#16)
by krek on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:10:29 AM EST

My apartment was robbed last summer, and I, alone, got my computer, my DVD player, an SLR camera, and over 300 CD's stolen. All told, they managed to get around 30,000 dollars (retail) worth of stuff. I can't even describe the feeling of violation.

A couple days latter my roommate found a used CD shop that had bought most of our CD's, we knew because many of the CD's I had and nearly all of my roommates CD's were rather rare out of print stuff. All I could think about was revenge, and since I could not inflict any pain on the actual theif, I would exact my revenge on the man that made burglery worth the risk, the owner of the used CD store.

Now, I am not sure what it is like in the rest of the world, but in Montreal, when buying used goods, and especially used CD's, you are meant to take a bunch of personal information about the seller, so as to discourage theives. This, however, does not seem, to most used CD shop owners, a viable business strategy, I mean, why pass up a chance to buy CD's that people normally would not want to sell, and buy them for about a dollar each or less. So my entire strategy was based around making it less attractive to buy stolen CD's. I went to his store at around noon, pulled out every single CD that could have even possibly been mine, and proceeded to ask for the name of the person or people that sold the CD to him. He would tell me that he did not have it, to which I would reply that it is the law that he obtain it. But that was just a pretext. My real goal was to stay in his store as long as possible, and be as loud and accusing as possible, and scare all of his customers away. For the next four hours the guy did not make a single sale, every time more than two or three people had accumulated in the shop, I would raise my voice again. I cleared his store about eight times before he called the police, at which point I felt a nasty grin come over my face, now things were about to get interesting.

I should point out that at this time I had very little concern for the trouble I might get into, my only focus was to make sure that this degenerate scum of a store owner got the message.

So once the police showed up, he first tried to usher us all into a back room, but I made sure that the coversation occured in the exact center of his store, the shop owner then explained his side and then I explained my side, at which point the cops explained their side. They said that since I had no way to possitively proove that the CD's had come from my apartment, that I had few recourses, but, that they were very much on my side. They said that they realised that many of the CD shops in Montreal were selling primarily stolen goods, and if it were up to them they would have shut them all down long ago.

It was great, here were the cops, that the store owner had called on me, agreeing with me, and badmouthing the store owner almost as much as I had been, in just as loud a voice as I had been speaking in, in a mosly full store of people who were just watching and not shopping. After that the police told me that if the store owner really wanted that he could probably sue me for defamation and loitering, so, if I was all done making my point, it would be best that I just moved along. So I did.

I don't know, it felt truely excellent at the time. Revenge, how sweet it is!

yeech. (2.66 / 3) (#35)
by EriKZ on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:26:11 PM EST

THAT'S your revenge for 30,000 dollars worth of loss? Pathetic!

[ Parent ]
Sometimes (4.00 / 1) (#112)
by krek on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:53:16 PM EST

You take what you can get.

If it makes you feel any better, another of my roommates, who had not lost many CD's but also lost his computer, was walking home one night, shortly after the robbery, and came across a crowd on the sidewalk. As he walked up to the crowd, he notices that there is a guy on the ground, with, what he initially assumes to be, ketchup all over the place. He asks one of the onlookers what had happened, to which he hears that there was a guy who walked out of a store and saw someone in the process of stealing his bicycle, and for anyone who has not lived in Montreal, there is a rampant stolen bicycle market here. As this guy had had many bicycles stolen from him over the past couple years, he freaked out; finally someone to take out all of his hate and frustration. He quickly walks up behind the thief and grabs his lock cutters, a long heavy object like a pair of hedge clippers for those who do not know, and starts beating this guy to within an inch of his life. My roommate showed up about a minute after this guy had finally calmed down, and as a result continued his walk home in much better spirits; vicarious revenge is almost as good as the real thing.

[ Parent ]
Down Here At The Pawn Shop (4.96 / 28) (#47)
by thelizman on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:02:25 PM EST

My first job was working at a Pawn Shop. Right, you already know the deal, except that in the microcosm that was my home town, Pawn Shops weren't the dirty smoke filled rooms full of junk with some old fat greasy italian guy behind a counter with bars between you and them. Nope, quite the opposite. It was a military town, and since enlisted personnel are persistantly broke, the pawnshops were stocked with high quality merchandisie from Snap-On tools to Nakamichi home stereo equipment. This made the second-hand good market extremely competitive, and moreso than anywhere I've ever beens the pawn shops there looked more like retail electronis stores (think Best Buy only smaller).

That doesn't mean people didn't try to Pawn/Sell us stolen shit. We were very careful not to take in suspicious items. If serial numbers were removed, we refused it. If they were asking a lowball sum for perfectly working equipment, we sent them down. Most pawnshops in the area were either chains of affiliated, so if someone was trying to sell a Trek bike for $30, then all the shops knew to stay away from that one. But, occasionally we did get stolen goods. We took the loss, and most often time the police never needed to get involved (clear cases of ownership and theft). It was our responsibility to recoup our losses from the theif, and it was our moral responsibility to return the property to it's rightful owner (and it was good business sense, since it attracted customers that would never have otherwise been caught dead in a Pawn Shop).

In one case, a particular scumbag was preempted. You see, he actually waited a few days between stealing the goods and fencing them. Worse yet, he was a US Marine (soon to be ex), and his room mate was out of town for training. What he didn't know is that his room mate was being shipped back from training because of an inury.

The room mate (and outstanding Marine and good guy by all accounts) had digitally photographed all his stuff, wrote down serial numbers, and also etched his own unique number into the equipment in obscure places. He distributed little booklets he had printed up at Kinko's containing photographs and descriptiosn to all the pawn shops, and offered rewards for information on getting his stuff back. He did not know it was his room mate that fucked him.

Well, I decided I liked this guy. He was, as we say in the south "good people". Sure enough, as one of the major shops in town, one of his items turned up in our inventory, and I called him. Although we aren't supposed to disclose it to anyone but the police, the guy rattled off alist of probables and I signaled him which one it was. "That son of a bitch...of course...my room mate".

Here's where the revenge comes in. The room mate came back to pick the item up from pawn. We didn't report him to the police right away. Instead, when he showed up I sent my assistant in the back office, and he first called the guy (who was there in lightening speed), and then the Military Police CID). Meanwhile, I charged the little punk bitch full price, plus interest. But then I held him up, bumbling with his paperwork, and then pretending to not be able to find the item. The guy started to get pissy, so I argued with him (it was a sunday - slow days, no customers to annoy). His buddy comes walking in, playing his role. "what's up!". They shot the shit, and you could see his soon-to-be ex-room mate sweating bullets. Any minute now, I would find his merchandise and plop in down on the counter in front of him and the guy he stole it from. Oh shit, it was so sweet, because as they were talking, two guys in suits walk in (CID never dresses in their uniforms - they try to maintain a civilian appearance unlike regular Military Police). Right then, my assistant 'found' the lost merchandise, and presented it to the little thief. The shit hits the fan, and in minutes not only is the theif in hand cuffs, but I saved the company from a loss AND helped the victim recoup his merchandise AND catch the man who violated his property in the act.

The irony is, the item the guy had stolen and pawned, then went to retreive...was the digital camera the victim had taken documentary pictures of his posessions with.

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Nice (none / 0) (#113)
by krek on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:54:54 PM EST

That is truely sweet, most excellent, wish I had been there for that one.

[ Parent ]
It was the possibility of stories like this (none / 0) (#131)
by gazbo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:18:51 PM EST

That made me vote the story up.

Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

In re: pawn shop (none / 0) (#210)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:27:53 PM EST

It was the possibility of stories like this that made me write the article.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]
re: Down Here At The Pawn Shop (2.50 / 2) (#172)
by Maserati on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:04:59 PM EST

You sir, are a paragon amonst men. I'll buy you a drink anytime.


For the wise a hint, for the fool a stick.
[ Parent ]

Revenge Story (4.42 / 21) (#18)
by Minion on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:19:35 AM EST

My revenge was guilt-free. I didn't do anything TO the person, I just kept them from being able to do anything to me, in an underhanded, frustrating way.

My arch-Nemesis (see! Referring to the story!) co-worker in the early 90's was the sort of person who was constantly pointing out how others are not doing their jobs and violating rules to cover up their fact that (as we discovered later) they did NOTHING all day. "We've always done it that way" was the mantra by which they lived.

Well, We did not get along. We had plenty of head-head arguments and stand-offs. One day, through a series of twists of fate, I was put under them.

This was while working as a government employee, and when you get a new supervisor you sign the forms which have the standards by which you will be judged. Well, mine were presented months late. I had decided to go back to school in the fall, and so I counted how many days were left before I went back and discovered it was 119. You need to be under a supervisor for 120 days in order to be reviewable.

I refused to back-date the forms. I caught hell for it. All the managers thought I had done it to be difficult, but they couldn't do anything about it.

The last day of my employment came, and the Branch Chief said, "time for your review" indicating that her office was to be used by me and my arch-nemesis. My relationship with the chief was a rocky one. It started off great and then went sour. By the time I was leaving we had gotten back to having lunch from time to time.

I sprang my surprise.

"I can't be reviewed. It hasn't been 120 days." A look of understanding and admiration crossed her face. "You knew when you refused to backdate the forms that you were going back!!!" She took me out for a steak dinner for a goodbye.

My arch-nemesis was FURIOUS. I had inflicted incredibly intense negative emotions on my arch-nemesis, and all I did was mount a passive defense that couldn't be defeated. I left the chief's office, and my nemesis stormed in and slammed the door shut. It's the last I ever saw of them.

It's the sweetest form of revenge.

Non sequitor (none / 0) (#376)
by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 04:50:05 PM EST

All I will say is I do not quite understand any of this.  Please enlighten us how not back dating these forms is such a big fucking deal.  So, you couldn't get reviewed.  Why did your arch-nemsis give a fuck?  In the beginning you make it sound like your new supervisor IS your arch nemsis.  In the end however, it seems like you parted ways with your supervisor amicably over a nice steak dinner, even though your arch nemsis was furious.

what the fuck???

[ Parent ]

Gaiman (4.00 / 1) (#25)
by spottedkangaroo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:41:01 AM EST

About the fates... Gaiman introduced them as 2 fates and their sister medusa was dead... the lured this girl into being the 3rd fate.

Where did he get that? I'd bet he didn't make it up from scratch...

Not the fates. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by Skyshadow on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:13:31 PM EST

You're thinking of the Furies. We see them briefly in The Sandman Special #1 when Orpheus travels to hell (Hades notes that Orpheus has made the Furies cry with his music).

Medusa, of course, was the gorgon killed by Perseus. In the Gaiman story, the other Furies (aka, the Kindly Ones) lure Hippolya Hall into acting in the capacity of their lost sister and use the pretext of avenging the "death" of her son to destroy the Sandman (which is, when all is said and done, exactly what Morpheus wanted).

To be 100% accurate, there's a little cross-polonation here between Greek and Roman terms (the Furies were the Roman version of the Erinyes, who appear in the Oddessy as a single entity but eventually come to be seen as three sisters). How Medusa became associated with this particular set of sisters I know not -- it's an invention of Gaiman's rather than from any historical myth I know of.

[ Parent ]

He concatenated different sets of sisters (5.00 / 1) (#106)
by dnix on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:38:52 PM EST

... for the sake of a cooler plot, I guess. The Gorgons were sisters, but Medusa was the only one of the three who was mortal. She was killed, as we all know, by Perseus. A quick search on The Perseus Digital Library (no it is not all about him, it is a huge collection of info) yields the relevant passage:
And having received also from Hermes an adamantine sickle he flew to the ocean and caught the Gorgons asleep. They were Stheno, Euryale, and Medusa. Now Medusa alone was mortal; for that reason Perseus was sent to fetch her head. But the Gorgons had heads twined about with the scales of dragons, and great tusks like swine's, and brazen hands, and golden wings, by which they flew; and they turned to stone such as beheld them. So Perseus [p. 159] stood over them as they slept, and while Athena guided his hand and he looked with averted gaze on a brazen shield, in which he beheld the image of the Gorgon,5 he beheaded her. When her head was cut off, there sprang from the Gorgon the winged horse Pegasus and Chrysaor, the father of Geryon; these she had by Poseidon.6
More than you ever wanted to know, I am sure. If you are a classic geek and don't know the Perseus library, beware, as you stand to lose hours of time moving from one link to another (clicky clicky).

[ Parent ]
Briefly? (none / 0) (#139)
by Happy Monkey on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:10:10 PM EST

The Furies, in various guises, appear throughout Sandman. Their appearances to Rose and Calliope come to mind. As another poster mentioned, the Gorgons were a different set of three sisters, including Medusa, which Gaiman wrapped up into the Furies. In fact, Gaiman wrapped up a number of three women/one entity into the Kindly Ones character(s). They did, in fact, appear as the Fates, as well as the old witches who pointed Perseus in the right direction to kill Medusa (the ones who shared a single eye and tooth), in passing.
Length 17, Width 3
[ Parent ]
Revenge doesnt have to be bad. (4.00 / 4) (#27)
by guyjin on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:48:37 AM EST

Revenge doesn't have to be bad. For example, one of my middle school teachers (one evil sonofabitch) went above and beyond his call of duty to find punishments for me, and wrote reports about me insisting, among other things, that I would never be able to hold a job and that I was some kind of future rapist. My revenge is simple: transcend him, live a good life, and make more money than him.
-- 散弾銃でおうがいして ください
Living a better life.... (none / 0) (#129)
by DJTiesto on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:05:14 PM EST

...is the best revenge, but only if the person who slighted you before KNOWS you made out better than he could have ever dreamed to.

[ Parent ]
why? (none / 0) (#154)
by tealeaf on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:08:03 PM EST

If the offender knows you live better, he might be tempted to spoil your life.  Why tempt fate?  It is stupid.

[ Parent ]
I disagree. (none / 0) (#287)
by Karellen on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 06:10:21 AM EST

Like a lot of people here, I got pushed around in high school quite a bit. Nothing partiularly serious, I'm sure there are a lot of worse stories than mine out there, so I won't bore you with details. However, as it was the worst time I'd had personal experience with, I was pretty pissed off.

So I leave high school, go to uni and meet a load of people in a similar situation to me, make some great friends and have a good time. I also realise that my life is going well, probably better not only than the people who bullied me, but also better than the other popular kids who didn't exactly do much themselves but would happily stand around and seeming be amused by my pain. I start to look forward to my 10 year reunion, where living well will be my revenge, and I'll be there to rub their noses in it.

Fast forward a few years and the 10 year reunion is rapidly appraoching. I'm quite pleased to realise that I don't give a shit about any of the people I went to high school with enough to want to rub their noses in anything. I'm living well. That's enough for me. I don't care if they know or not. They don't matter to me anymore.

When I realised that, I couldn't stop grinning for 3 days. Life is good.

[ Parent ]

My girl friend's best friend gets even! (4.00 / 12) (#28)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:54:11 AM EST

My girl friend's best friend, Melanie, broke up with her boyfriend. Four months later, Melanie finds out that her ex is seeing someone else. Through some twisted circumstance, the three of them end up going out for a drink; Melanie doesn't behave very nicely.

The following week Melanie gets an email from her ex's new girlfriend (Laura). The email was essentially said, "I hope we can be friends". Unfortunately, for Laura, the email she sent contained a nasty virus. Perhaps this was her intent, or perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps it wasn't even Laura's message that contained the virus. At any rate, Melanie decided at this point, she was going to make Laura's life a living hell.

First thing she did was research. Turns out that Laura works for city and so does her stepfather. She told her step father that Laura had intentionally sent her the virus and reminded him that those kind of attacks from company computers can lead to serious law suits.(1) Laura lost her job. The next thing she did was attack Laura's home. She went to the apartment building where she was residing and feigned interest in renting a room. She asked how many people she was allowed to have live with her in a one-bedroom apartment. The landlord, of course, said only one. "Really?" Melanie said. "My friend, Laura, who lives in apartment 555 lives with 2 others and only pays for a one room. PS - she also has a dog. (2) Laura was forced to pay more rent and loose the dog or leave. Melanie then found out that Laura was now working at a Second Cup. She went to the Second Cup and immediately complained about the service that she received from Laura. She then paid several of her friends to do the same. (3) Last I heard, Laura no longer works at Second Cup.

Could be just a blatant misconception I have, but it seems to me that woman are much more likely to seek revenge then men. No?

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
Not really (5.00 / 2) (#30)
by bodrius on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:04:06 PM EST

In my experience, they are less likely to seek revenge.

It's just that when they do, they seem to really enjoy it and some can get carried away easily.

Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
[ Parent ]

Your (5.00 / 10) (#31)
by kimpton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:06:51 PM EST

...girlfriend's best friend is F*cking horrible then. Getting somebody the sack because they accidently sent you a virus...how does she live with herself?

[ Parent ]
your friend... (5.00 / 3) (#75)
by Run4YourLives on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:36:24 PM EST

needs to get her ass kicked, big time.

What a miserable person. From the way you described it, this isn't revenge, it's outright hatred. If I were the ex-boyfriend I'd be doing some planning right about now.

Your girlfriend's friend diserves all that's coming to her. Sorry, but it's true.

It's slightly Japanese, but without all of that fanatical devotion to the workplace. - CheeseburgerBrown
[ Parent ]

don't apologise, (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:42:57 PM EST

I agree.

...and she's not my friend:-)

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
That's not revenge, that's immature cunt psychosis (3.60 / 5) (#81)
by skintigh on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:51:14 PM EST

Let me get this straight.  She broke up with him.  He then dated someone else.  She, being completely psychotic, and apparently assuming he should stay single forever and build a shrine to her or something, sets out to ruin the life of a thrid person who has never done anything to this girl.

I have heard of some psycho bitches, but this girl sets a new standard.

Previously, the most psycho story I have heard of happened to a friend we'll call X.  He dated a girl, who I guess got pregnent really young and had a son, and was really in love with her and her son, and her son really bonded with X.  But, she wasn't sure what she wanted, so she broke up with him and refused to let him even see her son.  He moved on, and later she of course changed her mind.  When she found out he had seen other women, she told all of his friends, co-workers, guys he worked out with, etc. that he had "cheated" on her.  PSYCHO

[ Parent ]

yup (3.50 / 2) (#85)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:00:56 PM EST

I think your psycho tops my psycho.

Your summary of my story, however, was slightly off. The "psycho revenger", Melanie, didn't do all those things to Laura simply because she was dating her ex. She did them because she suspected her of intentionally sending her a virus. PLEASE do not thinking I'm defending the bitch - I think she has issues. I'm merely correcting your summary.

I let my girl friend read my post and she suspect that Melanie inherited her vindictiveness from her mother, who was also a conniving little wench.

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
Oh yeah... bullying? (none / 0) (#91)
by skintigh on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:10:28 PM EST

I forgot about the virus thing.  Short attention sp...

Girls are very different.  I heard part of a story on NPR about how there are billions of studies done on male bullying, but only 3 that slightly touch on female bullying, even though almost everyone agrees that females are far more vindictive and coniving.  And evil.

Maybe this is less revenge that it is bullying by a girl brought up to be psycho.

[ Parent ]

You didn't tell the whole story (4.83 / 6) (#87)
by Dephex Twin on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:03:12 PM EST

Like the part when Laura tried to kill Melanie's pet kitten and robbed her parent's house.  Seriously, what did this girl do?  Laura didn't appear to do *one single thing* to deserve anything Melanie did.

I can't think of anyone who I dislike enough that they deserve to have such major parts of their lives screwed up by me.  Let alone someone who only had the misfortune of dating a guy who 4 months ago dated what seems to be a psycho-stalker girl.

Melanie was the one who broke up with the guy.  Melanie was the one who was rude at the outing with the new couple.  I seriously doubt that Laura's email was intentionally a virus-- Melanie probably suspected it because she herself is cruel enough to pull a stunt like that.  Melanie didn't even know if Laura had sent the virus!

None of the ways in which Melanie exacted revenge were whimsical or mischievous-- they were all calculated and manipulative.  The third situation was out-and-out lying.

I must say I don't think much of the friends willing to take part in the third event, unless Melanie mislead them as to what Laura did to deserve it.

This girl has some *major* issues.

Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. -- Homer Simpson
[ Parent ]

I am so glad... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:10:23 PM EST

...that this story has generated these types of comments. I have been trying to convince my girl friend that Melanie is a psycho hose beast for a while now. Please, start directing your comment to my girl friend, her name is "Tasty".

Begin all of your comments as follows:

"Dear Tasty, your friend Melanie is a psycho! She is..."

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
Revenge and Karma (4.40 / 5) (#29)
by anon868 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:57:20 AM EST

I don't mean to sound like a wimp, but I really do find that Karma often is the best revenge. I can't count the number of people where I work, who have done bad things to me or my friends, who really did get their come-uppins in the end. We even use a phrase at work: "Instant Karma", which basically means getting bitch slapped by fate within 5 mins. of doing something bad. Revenge is a dish best served cold? maybe- Revenge is a dish best served by fate itself.
Open a window. No, not that one! One made from actual glass, set in an acual wall, you dork.
Pussy (none / 0) (#375)
by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 04:01:23 PM EST

Another karma fool?  There is no karma. Fate is not going to do the work for you. Your wonderful life is not a result of your good deeds you sanctimonious moron.  The reality is, it is people like you other wish to prey upon.  You are stupid, self centered, and illogical.  You are the perfect target.  Think about that, next time you ponder your fate.

[ Parent ]
Some kind of vengeance... (4.57 / 7) (#33)
by Gooba42 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:16:33 PM EST

I'm not sure if I was getting revenge for myself or avenging my co-workers but I did it by being laid off.

Our company was going through some "workforce reductions" and there were certain suspicious patterns afoot. In three layoffs, HR had never given up anybody and anyone who had the slightest clue how to run the company was being laid off.

We dropped everyone who worked in the warehouse and I was transferred back there under a supervisor whose real responsibility was documenting our processess etc. such that we could pass an ISO audit. We worked well together and sorted out a mess that had probably cost the company close to $200k in lost materials and goods. We received praise from all the execs and upper management but there was a particular guy in accounting who thought it was his business to make life hard for us. Repeat the inventory counting until we got the "right" numbers, that sort of thing. In retrospect I think there was a lot more being covered up than I did then, but oh well.

In any case, time came for another workforce reduction and rumors were flying. My supervisor had been the one to discover that during some debate as to who had to stay and who had to go, the Chairman had been hand-picking employees to go. Better yet, he had made some copies and left them on the machine of "The List". Needless to say, my supervisor was on the list.

In the end I wound up working for the guy in accounting who had been itching to control what numbers the warehouse reported. His first act as the boss was to set us up to write our own documentation as he couldn't be bothered to work in his department and get everyone certified. As time wore on it becmae apparent that there was some bigger power struggle going on, accounting irregularities, etc. ($4000 Travel costs for a department which didn't travel? He got called out on that one by the Director of Ops.) I did my job and continued to complain that what we were doing didn't make sense and that it certainly looked like we were doing everything in a way that needlessly confused our records. When they ditched the Director of Ops instead of listen to him about his budget, then I knew my days were numbered.

I wrote a letter to HR complaining that we had no clear hierarchy anymore and I needed to know who to call my boss. They hemmed and hawed and made it clear they didn't want to step on any toes, eventually telling me that I needed to take this directly to my supervisor. I let them know that what I wanted was the objective, official company answer and not his (wishful) perception of the situation. I didn't get an answer until the next day and while waiting for a ride did see my supervisor leaving HR at the end of that day. Within 2 days I was being laid off.

The fun part about it all was that I was such an asset to the warehouse until he took it over and then engineered my own fate by asking all the wrong questions.

my revenge - see my vote (nt) (3.50 / 4) (#36)
by mami on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:26:55 PM EST

darn - too late (nt) (none / 0) (#37)
by mami on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:27:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I suspect it was.... (none / 0) (#41)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:37:59 PM EST

.....-1, with an implied "heathen!"

I'm all for it! Thanks for your comment!
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]

Urban Legend (4.50 / 4) (#38)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:31:58 PM EST

The best revenge story I have heard was in Robert Fulford's book, The Triumph of Narrative: Storytelling in the Age of Mass Culture in the chapter about urban legends.

If any one is looking for a good friday listen, you can hear Fulford read his book in Real Audio because it was a Massey Lecture.

The story he tells is about a man who comes home to find a convertible BMW in his lane way who he suspects to be the lover of his wife. He decides to seek revenge. Since he drove a cement truck for a living, he simply poured a cubic ton of cement into the guys beamer. Ouch. Fulford tells it way better then I do.

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
A cubic ton? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
by p3d0 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:58:07 PM EST

Is that more than a square ton?
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
[ Parent ]
LOL (5.00 / 1) (#88)
by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:04:02 PM EST

I was hoping someone would pick up on my little (intentional) blunder.

Fulford claims that what makes this Urban Legend keep circulating is the attention to detail people give the story. Its important that you describe the car, describe the scenario, the setting, and especially the amount of cement poured into the car.

*Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
[ Parent ]
It's Like This And Like That And Like This And A (5.00 / 4) (#39)
by thelizman on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:33:24 PM EST

I started to write a comment, but before long it turned into a diary entry. Remember, always document your work day in a journal, and back up files (even if there's a company policy against doing so). Cover Your Ass.

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
It's a bird! No, it's a good idea for a reason. (1.66 / 3) (#261)
by rustybot on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 04:51:24 PM EST

Burn it all! Smash it flat and seed the ground with salt and the cdc has an inkling of how it all on their side. Me shooting you in the ass, but i'm guessing that a whole hor.

[ Parent ]
The problem with revenge (2.50 / 2) (#40)
by Jman1 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:37:55 PM EST

is that it often ends up hurting you as well. Sure, it feels good and can be harmless, but sometimes it'll just take you into an endless cycle of revenge-begets-revenge.

Yes. (none / 0) (#42)
by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:40:54 PM EST

This is touched upon quite a bit below. And on this more serious vein, I would like to know your thoughts on revenge as law.
The root of the problem has been isolated.
[ Parent ]
I'm completely against it. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by Jman1 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:10:55 PM EST

It's primitive and harmful to society. The only justifiable (to me) reason for punishment is deterrance. And there's a trade-off there. Obviously, chopping peoples arms off could be a deterrent to theft, but it's not worth the pain and anguish to the criminal and it's not worth becoming the sort of society we'd have to be. I should add that although I don't see it as punishment, I believe we should definitely lock up people who are too dangerous not to be locked up until they are no longer too dangerous. That's also a tradeoff, of course, in terms of weighing how dangerous a person really is, not to mention the possibilities for abuses of power. (That man's dangerous. He's a pinko liberal/religious zealot. Lock him up forever.)

[ Parent ]
Comments archived forever? (4.60 / 15) (#46)
by Dr. Zowie on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 12:54:56 PM EST

Hmmm... This is just the sort of thread that invites Web foolishness -- remember that anything you post here is likely to be archived (at least somewhere) for decades to come.

I still occasionally run across a two-paragraph rant I once made about the (then-new) restrictions on home satellite decoders (``if the photons hit me they're mine!'' or something like that) in 1990 or so. I was in a particularly ranty mood that night/morning...

My point? If you post a detailed story about revenge, don't be surprised if the victim, your future employers, your family, and your government read it...

Yeah, I've done it a couple times (4.14 / 7) (#48)
by sludge on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:05:55 PM EST

A good friend of mine comes from a strict oriental household. As a westerner w/o much experience, I have trouble telling where the eastern culture stops and the nonsensical behaviour begins. Her parents dislike any white males she dates (and they aren't afraid to tell her). When they know she is going out with a white boyfriend, they will use parental policies that would be odd if applied to a five year old - nine o'clock curfew, for example.

In one case, she was found to be out with her boyfriend outside of their parameters, and her parents summoned her back , and forbade her from ever seeing him again. They then invited him back, and proceeded to chew him out a new asshole, as well. He stayed quiet, as she has a history of being physically abused, and knew that her father would threaten her when he left, if he spoke up.

Anyway, myself and her ex-boyfriend were over at her house one day, and she had ran out to get something from the store. We were looking around, when I came up with the idea of doing something to deface their house in exchange for all of the hardships they had caused. We quickly removed a clock from the wall, and took a big red marker and wrote "ASS" underneath it. We then placed the clock back in it's place.

I'm sure a few years from now when they pack everything into boxes to move, they'll take it off the wall, and wonder how in sweet fuck that got there. I wish I could see their faces.
Hiring in the Vancouver, British Columbia area

LAME (none / 0) (#374)
by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 03:55:15 PM EST

That has to be the most ridiculous form of revenge I have ever heard of.  You are a pussy

[ Parent ]
Teen shoots wedgie-giver (4.16 / 6) (#51)
by jlinwood on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:10:53 PM EST

Apparently, a 19-year old guy got a "wedgie" (yanking up your underwear, works best with tightie-whities) at a Phish concert from a friend. This guy stewed for a few months, then went and shot the guy that bullied him. That guy nearly died. Hopefully they don't press charges.

AP Story

Good example of uncreative vengance (5.00 / 4) (#67)
by Skyshadow on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:27:22 PM EST

That's an excellent example of why the basically uncreative and stupid people of the world should leave revenge up to those of us willing to think these things out.

Really good revenge accomplishes all of the following:

  • Vengance act is far, far worse that the provoking incident.
  • The target of the revenge is left cursing the day they wronged you.
  • You get to enjoy the agony of your target.
  • Everyone else is terrified to cross you.

    An excellent example of a revenge plan which meets all of these criteria can be found in South Park 501 - Scott Tenorman Must Die.

    [ Parent ]

  • according to you... (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Lenny on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:11:07 PM EST

    the revenge you are replying to fits the bill for all of your points.

    "Hate the USA? Boycott everything American. Particularly its websites..."
    [ Parent ]
    Missed one (none / 0) (#322)
    by Skyshadow on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 12:21:26 PM EST

    Oh yeah, I forgot one:

  • You don't go to prison at the end.

    [ Parent ]
  • You don't know the other guy's story (4.50 / 12) (#52)
    by ghjm on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:12:07 PM EST

    I have a real problem with all this.

    I recently had to let go one of my employees. He had some performance problems in the past, but had been improving and his recent work had been on-target with a really good attitude. I had been considering him for a team lead role.

    Then we caught him accessing systems without authorization. I'm not going to provide details, but the proof was compelling. I honestly had no choice. This was obvious to everyone EXCEPT him.

    Now, from this guy's point of view I was acting totally unreasonably. To quote the story, I caused him to be "laid off with no prospects." If you believe in revenge, he should be out to get me. I'm sure he's out there wishing he could make me "divorced, penniless, living on [my] parent's couch in another city, incapable of being hired or getting a credit card." From his point of view this would be a completely rational and correct approach - if you believe in revenge.

    But in reality, revenge is not rationally defensible. Are you saying that in order to reduce the amount of harm in the world, you plan to do harm to someone? How does that add up?


    Explain law. (none / 0) (#66)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:25:18 PM EST

    Don't get me wrong: unwarranted extreme revenge is a bad thing. Look at the comments and you'll see that most people agree with this in the thread.

    But in reality, revenge is not rationally defensible. Are you saying that in order to reduce the amount of harm in the world, you plan to do harm to someone? How does that add up?
    Explain criminal law to me. Better yet, explain lawsuits in general to me. How can they exist without some conccept of retribution?

    All that being said, the article has 1) lighthearted intent and 2) it's not politics.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    There *is* (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Anonymous 7324 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:32:14 PM EST

    also the 'corrective' model of justice, you know. Granted, this says nothing about life in prison w/o parole, or the death penalty, but on the flip side amazingly enough, cutting off the hands of a thief or the testicles of a rapist (we all know what parts of the world do this, no?) is quite 'corrective' of the behavior, even if the means utilized are uh, crude.

    [ Parent ]
    But why is the punishment done? (none / 0) (#76)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:38:04 PM EST

    Why punish? Because they broke the law, and the law states "this person's hands must be cut off." That's corrective, but you can also argue that it is revenge, vengeance. A wrong deed was done, and a wrong deed is done to the offender in turn.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]
    Revenge is a state of mind (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by GhostfacedFiddlah on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:59:42 PM EST

    I'm sure that many victims feel a sense of vengeance when seeing a criminal put away, but the judge doesn't (shouldn't) feel any.  And the laws aren't (necessarily) in place to exact revenge on behalf of the victims, it's just a happy side-effect.  I personally don't want revenge to have any place in the justice system - at least not from the judges point of view - because that doesn't lead to a healthy society.  As we often see, it's not "An eye-for-an-eye", but an "eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for...".  The two main effects of criminal punishment should be
    (a)Correct the behaviour
    (b)Act as a deterrent.

    The second would explain life in prison as a punishment, because it's meant to deter other people from committing like crimes.

    That said, I'm sure there is a lot of vengeance in the justice system, but ideally it wouldn't be so.

    [ Parent ]

    an eye for an eye.. (4.00 / 1) (#83)
    by AnalogBoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:54:12 PM EST

    And everyone is blind.

    But you sir, are a meaniehead.

    Not on purpose, i'm sure.   But part of being in your position is, eventually you will have to ruin someone's life.. at least temporarily.

    And that makes you a meaniehead.

    Save the environment, plant a Bush back in Texas.
    Religous Tolerance (And click a banner while you're there)
    [ Parent ]

    Club (none / 0) (#373)
    by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 03:53:27 PM EST

    He could also club you in the face with his louisville slugger.  Some people would rather their target simply cease to exist.  Revenge is like ejaculation.  When you are fucking the woman, it gets a little dull if you do it too long.  Finally, when you ejaculate, you are done.  The urge is gone, and she is no longer part of the picture.

    The sooner the target is dead, the better.  

    [ Parent ]

    Driving (4.37 / 8) (#56)
    by www.sorehands.com on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:16:31 PM EST

    I was driving in Cambridge Mass, just passed the Route 2. rotary going west. This guy behind me was blowing his horn and flashing his lights because I was going to slow for him.

    My radar detector started beeping, so I let him pass and returned the favor.

    2 minutes later, I smiled at him when I passed him. He was stopped, getting a ticket.

    Mattel, SLAPP terrorists intent on destroying free speech.

    Epic. [nt] (2.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:19:01 PM EST

    *Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
    [ Parent ]
    Mean horn. (5.00 / 5) (#80)
    by AnalogBoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:50:43 PM EST

    I think there should be several types of horns, univerally built into all cars.

    There would be the "Hi, Howarya" horn, for those friendly family passings in the street

    There would be the "Hi, your tail light is out" horn, for those times when you want to get the drivers attention, but not be rude.

    Then there would be the "You have just offended me, you inconsiderate twit" horn.

    And, last but not least, the "Hey, FUCK YOU BUDDY" horn, for those people who do what you speak of.

    (And no, there will -NOT- be a "General Lee" horn, in case any of you rednecks were wondering)

    Save the environment, plant a Bush back in Texas.
    Religous Tolerance (And click a banner while you're there)
    [ Parent ]

    missing horn (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by Swashbuckler on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:53:37 PM EST

    the "hi I'm single and your really cute PS ignore the station wagon" horn.

    *Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
    [ Parent ]
    Actually, no. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by AnalogBoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:33:17 PM EST

    that's not missing.  A variation is already built into BMW's, Lexus' and Jaguars.  They have a patent on mate-attracting steering-wheel mounted automobile audio devices.
    Save the environment, plant a Bush back in Texas.
    Religous Tolerance (And click a banner while you're there)
    [ Parent ]
    Is that an option? (none / 0) (#272)
    by Quest171 on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 07:35:58 PM EST

    If it's standard equipment, I need to get my BMW in for service.

    [ Parent ]
    Got money? (none / 0) (#279)
    by AnalogBoy on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 01:31:11 AM EST

    You've gotta have money, looks, or power to be happy in this world.

    Save the environment, plant a Bush back in Texas.
    Religous Tolerance (And click a banner while you're there)
    [ Parent ]
    What's a `PS'? (n/t) (none / 0) (#286)
    by Karellen on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 05:53:26 AM EST

    [ Parent ]
    PS = post script (none / 0) (#289)
    by supine on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 06:38:43 AM EST

    used to prefix any text added after the salutation...

    blah, blah, blah.


    PS. forget to say blah

    used for real in days of typewriters, now (given that a word processor allows you to amend the main text with the new item) it is a way of indicating that the item was an afterthought.

    "No GUI for you! Use lynx!!!, Come back, One year!" -- /avant
    [ Parent ]

    Ah - understanding dawns. (none / 0) (#294)
    by Karellen on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 09:33:34 AM EST

    Right. I'm used to dealing with one grammatical error at a time and compensating. But PS == PostScript is always used at the beginning of a sentence (normally paragraph), and combining the lack of period/sentence run-on with the your/you're typo made me think that the PS referred to in the parent post was a thing (which was being referred to as `cute') or attribute. Two errors in four words is just a little too much for my parser, I guess. K.

    [ Parent ]
    no but... (none / 0) (#329)
    by Swashbuckler on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 07:22:31 PM EST

    read the sentence without pausing before PS. I have developed a new speaking habit which allows me to drop the pause that would normally represent a 'comma'. In this case, the joke I was making is funnier if the title of my "horn" reads without a pause. try it.

    *Note* - this comment contains no inside K5 humour because inside K5 humour is only for/by K5-wankers. Media does not = "community."
    [ Parent ]
    General Lee??? (none / 0) (#134)
    by farmgeek on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:40:18 PM EST

    (And no, there will -NOT- be a "General Lee" horn, in case any of you rednecks were wondering)

    Oh..you mean Dixie (aka the national anthem).

    Already got one thanks.

    It also plays the funeral march, but I only use that one for wedding parties.

    [ Parent ]

    Okay. (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Apuleius on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:12:53 PM EST

    "Hi, howarya" - two short beeps. "Buddy, you got a problem with your car" - two short, then one long beep, with high beams. The last two: don't. You like living, don't you? The one you don't mention: "buddy, we're close to colliding" is just one long beep.

    There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
    [ Parent ]
    Oh, that's mature. (1.00 / 2) (#262)
    by kitten on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:00:22 PM EST

    You really taught him.

    Meanwhile for all your smug and arrogant "I'm on a bike, he can't outrun me in traffic!" idiocy, you're lucky he didn't have Mr Colt with him, with six little friends who all run a lot faster than you.

    We'd have maybe seen how well that stupid shell you put on your head while biking around protects you then.
    mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
    [ Parent ]
    Smoking and windows. (4.53 / 15) (#60)
    by www.sorehands.com on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:18:41 PM EST

    While on my bike in downtown Boston, a driver in a pick-up threw a ciggarett butt out the window. I picked it up, and threw it back in.

    Smoking may cause brain damage.

    Mattel, SLAPP terrorists intent on destroying free speech.

    heh (none / 0) (#107)
    by Frijoles on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:39:30 PM EST

    I've always wanted to do this, but I fear the guy getting out and using me as a punching bag. Just curious as to what the guy did.

    [ Parent ]
    Bikes in traffic (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by www.sorehands.com on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:49:33 PM EST

    A bike in downtown traffic can always beat a car.

    Mattel, SLAPP terrorists intent on destroying free speech.
    [ Parent ]

    Beatings... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Meatbomb on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:04:52 PM EST

    ...an enraged motorist on foot can beat the crap out of a smug dork straddling a bike.


    Good News for Liberal Democracy!

    [ Parent ]
    As (4.00 / 2) (#137)
    by www.sorehands.com on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:59:25 PM EST

    As that enraged motorist is gasping and wheezing from the effect of smoking. I don't think so.

    Mattel, SLAPP terrorists intent on destroying free speech.
    [ Parent ]

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by bgarcia on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:45:16 PM EST

    I've always wanted to do that. Glad to know someone is making up for my slackerdom.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha ha ha! (3.00 / 2) (#229)
    by gnovos on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:32:35 AM EST

    What would have been really cool is if after you threw the butt back in he lost control of the wheel and ended up killing some group of children!  Ha ha ha!  Blood and guts and little Garfield and Pokemon lunch-boxes everywhere, and you with your smug, winning smile saying, "gotcha, asshole!"  Ha ha ha, sweet!  That would have totally stuck it to the man!  Those car driving assholes deserve what they get, right?

    A Haiku: "fuck you fuck you fuck/you fuck you fuck you fuck you/fuck you fuck you snow" - JChen
    [ Parent ]
    re: little kids etc (none / 0) (#311)
    by Rainy on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 09:17:43 PM EST

    You have to weigh different possibilities here, too.. after this he'll probably be reluctant to throw butts out the window; if he continued doing that, he could some day throw it into someone else's window who'd lose control... etc. You, on the other hand, knowing that you're trowing it in his window and he may lose control, could look around and see if there's any children or other people walking around and pick a deserted spot to do your revenge.
    Rainy "Collect all zero" Day
    [ Parent ]
    Long ago (4.00 / 1) (#360)
    by Quila on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 06:26:28 AM EST

    I was a lowly private in the Army picking up cigarette butts and trash at the local store. In the middle of a long day of picking up thousands of them, I saw a guy in a parked car flip a butt out his window. I simply walked up, picked up the butt, showed it to him, said "You know, I really don't enjoy picking these things up all day long." and put it into my bag.

    I swear the old guy was about to have a heart attack, as he could barely get a word out. His wife was walking up at the time and had profuse apologies. I almost felt sorry, but I'm betting that was his last cigarette butt on the parking lot.

    Sometimes people stupidly don't realize the harm they're doing to others. I wouldn't suggest some twisted revenge scheme until you know the offending act was done with malice.

    [ Parent ]

    Edgar Allan Poe (5.00 / 7) (#64)
    by drivers on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:24:02 PM EST

    The classic revenge story is The Cask of Amontillado by Edgar Allan Poe.
    THE thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge. You, who so well know the nature of my soul, will not suppose, however, that I gave utterance to a threat. AT LENGTH I would be avenged; this was a point definitively settled -- but the very definitiveness with which it was resolved precluded the idea of risk. I must not only punish, but punish with impunity. A wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser. It is equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make himself felt as such to him who has done the wrong.

    Alexandre Dumas (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:31:02 PM EST

    I think The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas is the best-known classic revenge story.

    As long as there's hope...
    [ Parent ]
    Count! (none / 0) (#133)
    by Mike Connell on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:37:43 PM EST

    I always felt that The Count of Monte Cristo was more of an anti-revenge story. Some things that are taken can never be replaced, etc. etc.

    Or maybe it's just the beer talking :-)

    [ Parent ]

    The book's ending is clear... (4.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Caton on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:49:06 PM EST

    Edmond Dantès says:
    "God, that invoked me against my enemies and made me the winner, God, I see it clearly, does not want me to repent from this victory. I wanted to punish myself; God wants to reward me."
    That's hardly anti-revenge, I'd say.

    And even if is was... Monte Cristo is a very good revenge story.

    As long as there's hope...
    [ Parent ]

    Famous last words (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by jefu on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:04:05 PM EST

    For the love of God, Montressor!

    [ Parent ]
    Messing With My Computer (4.00 / 5) (#65)
    by n8f8 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:24:56 PM EST

    I used to work next to this dude who was ultra-paranoid about leaving his desk without locking the computer. One day I came back from the restroom(10 feet from my desk) and he had stated a stupid Flash game on my computer(that one where you machine gun down all kinds of stuff).

    Next time he left his desk I picked up every item on and around his desk and turned it upside-down. Monitor, computer, calendar, pictures, pen-cup, books, chair....

    Sig: (This will get posted after your comments)

    Works with furniture too (4.00 / 1) (#316)
    by mayo on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 11:17:30 PM EST

    I did a similar thing with furniture round at a friend's house after a party. He thought we'd absolutely trashed the place when three of us had just very carefully placed every item of furniture upside down or on it's side. Suffice to say that he deserved it although I shall not say what for as he's still a good friend. :)

    [ Parent ]
    ObDuneQuote (4.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Anonymous 7324 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 01:29:36 PM EST

    "Revenge is a dish best served ... cold." -- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen.

    Same quote from my Kung Fu instructor (none / 0) (#163)
    by libertine on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:31:23 PM EST

    He gave me some pointers on revenge.  First was the good Baron's rule.  Second, was that one should go buy two funeral plots and dig them out- one for them, and one for oneself.

    "Live for lust. Lust for life."
    [ Parent ]
    Actually... (none / 0) (#221)
    by amike on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:12:29 AM EST

    The Klingons said it first. Bah.

    In a mad world, only the mad are sane. -Akira Kurosawa
    [ Parent ]
    And this was nabbed from them.... (none / 0) (#283)
    by squigly on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 04:36:56 AM EST

    By the sicilians several centuries ago, apparently.

    [ Parent ]
    And from the other side of the coin. (4.55 / 9) (#86)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:01:48 PM EST

    I screwed up once. Just once. I made an enemy for life, and he was not going to let my actions go without some sort of retaliatory gesture.

    My actions speak for themselves: I was 13, and was dating a girl...maybe dating is a strong word at 13...anyhow, I was seeing a neighborhood girl. I was really into this girl, too. Her parents were born-again Christians, and were profoundly against my and my friends, but me especially, since their daughter was involved, so to speak, with me. I brought her the outside world: music from the murky depths of Boston and LA punk, books from Edward Abbey, books on physics and culture, and magazines. Oh, and pornography.

    Ahem. Anyhow, her parents find a note I have written her...a very nasty note...as well as a magazine (I think it was an issue of Oui) and they confront my parents and myself with it. My parents tell her parents to shove off (they tried to tell my parents that they were doing a terrible job and should be punished, there was a shouting match, and no one left happy) then proceed to punish me for five years. Not important, except that I Wanted Revenge!

    They were having a house built at that time, a custom adobe job in the neighborhood. I went to the worksite, and my first act of monkeywrenching was to cause lots of damage to their not-yet-built house. Not the structure, but the tools, the paint, etc. Not good. For those of you who are impatient but are wanting a sense of justice: I was nailed for this, see below.

    After monkeywrenching the house for quite some time, rumor surfaces that the Girl's dad (let's call him Jerry) knows it's me, and he's pissed. I get caught, bad things happen, and he comes to see me @ the cop shop. He says only a few words: "You've messed up my daughter's life, and you've messed with the sanctity of my house. I will get you for this. An eye for an eye...." and he leaves.

    I'm not worried, not at all.

    Scan forward three years, and I'm actually close friends with that family again, all is forgiven, etc. I've changed my ways, and am very apologetic. They're having a BBQ / church get-together at the house, and I'm invited to go.

    When I get there, I am confronted with a circle of angry Christians, the remains of a three-year old note, a box of pornographic magazines (none of them were the one I gave their daughter three years before), and a small baggie of what looks to be pot. They found the pot on their daughter, assumed I had everything to do with it...that's what I hear, anyway.

    I endure hours of questions, accusations, prayers, et c. I try to get away, but am physically barred by three very large farmboys. After four hours, I am free to go.

    I drive slowly for the mile back to my house, and am surprised when I am pulled over. Seems I vandalized the house I was just at, and the cops had some questions for me.

    Days later, I find out the whole thing....all of it, everyone in the house....was a huge setup, geared to get me back for the problems I had caused that family. Needless to say, I never...ever...had anything to do with them again.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.

    Your first mistake... (3.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Matadon on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:21:06 PM EST

    ...was in assuming all was forgiven.  Especially by a "christian", which is doublespeak for "whatever I say is right, is."

    If you screw somebody over, don't ever think you can trust them in the future.  Ever.

    "There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out." — Richard Dawkins.
    [ Parent ]

    Lessons learned. (none / 0) (#100)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:23:14 PM EST

    Sixteen years old, you tend to believe what people tell you if they're over 40. Well, at least in my house / generation / town / etc.

    Now...now I just try to not piss anyone off, ever.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    Uncalled for (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by unknownlamer on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:21:11 PM EST

    Especially by a "christian", which is doublespeak for "whatever I say is right, is."

    What? No, there are some people that are like that, but not all Christians are like that. The New Testament says to love everyone and forgive people. Some people like to cite the Old Testament and other things from the old law that no longer apply. A true Christian family would have forgiven him and not taken petty revenge on him. Some people give a bad name to Christianity...(sadly, those people seem to be really outspoken)

    <vladl> I am reading the making of the atomic bong - modern science
    [ Parent ]
    titles mean little (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by mlong on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:28:01 AM EST

    ...was in assuming all was forgiven. Especially by a "christian", which is doublespeak for "whatever I say is right, is."

    Just because someone says they are christian doesn't mean that they are, or that they even know what it means. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and assume all christians act that way.

    [ Parent ]

    large farmboy problems? (none / 0) (#142)
    by Prophet themusicgod1 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:24:04 PM EST

    Get a Good Knife. Wear Body Armour.
    "I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
    [ Parent ]
    large farmboy problems? (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Prophet themusicgod1 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:24:21 PM EST

    Get a Good Knife. Wear Body Armour.
    "I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
    [ Parent ]
    Time to get even! (none / 0) (#151)
    by rayab on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:03:56 PM EST

    Cmo'n dont let it go this easily, especially since you're under 18. Anything you do (as long as its not highly illigal) will be removed from your police record. I have never been in a situation like this but if this happened to me I'd have found some clever and creative way to get back at them, just as long as they didnt find out it was me. See as long as they have no evidence they cant do anything to you.

    Y popa bila sobaka on yeyo lyubil, ona syela kusok myasa on yeyo ubil, v zemlyu zakopal, i na mogile napisal...
    [ Parent ]
    Nope nope nope. (none / 0) (#166)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:35:55 PM EST

    This happened years ago. I'm 30 now.

    That being said, I still don't like the guy (he still lives in my parent's neighborhood). When I see him, I smile and wink. He's not sure about the wink.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    Just be glad.. (4.50 / 2) (#194)
    by Apuleius on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:54:21 PM EST

    that they didn't decide you were possessed..

    There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
    [ Parent ]
    The perfect revenge... (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by loualbano on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:57:46 PM EST

    Would be to marry that girl.  

    Nothing you could do would piss them off more, and it's not even illegal.


    [ Parent ]

    So in other words.. (none / 0) (#244)
    by tzanger on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:02:11 PM EST

    They had their revenge on you, and you didn't like it? Amazing.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course I didn't like it (none / 0) (#250)
    by blixco on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:13:56 PM EST

    moron. However, I deserved it.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]
    Ok... (1.00 / 1) (#252)
    by tzanger on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:46:58 PM EST

    So was your original revenge still worth it? I mean, they got you back for getting them back, so don't you feel the urge to get them back for getting you back for getting them back?

    [ Parent ]
    Hrm. (none / 0) (#254)
    by blixco on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:05:28 PM EST

    This is starting to sound like one of those "did you know that I know that you know that I know that you knew..."

    Was my original revenge worth it? Probably not. Do I still wish to get them back? Nope....I feel like things are pretty well balanced out.

    But that *was* 14 years ago. It'd be completely unexpected if I did anything back.

    Then we're no longer looking at revenge, we're looking at a Hatfield and McCoy style family feud! Yeeeeeee-haw!

    Seriously, none of it was worth it, but it makes for some great stories.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    Revenge gone wrong (4.33 / 15) (#89)
    by bigsexyjoe on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:06:37 PM EST

    One time I was driving and I got cut off by a van full of skinheads. I started yelling and honking at these racist assholes until they pulled over. We exchanged words and eventually one them took a swing at me. I dodged and knocked him down with one punch. To make a long story short, I ended up giving everyone of them a serious beating. I felt really good about myself. The next day I read the paper that a van full of leukemia patients was beaten by a disgruntled driver.

    The moral of the story is that you should be careful before you apply revenge. Sometimes you don't understand the situation or where someone is coming from. How many teachers have you had who spent their careers searching for bad students to punish? They were nightmare to everyone. Even the Ku Klux Klan feels that they are fighting a rightous battle.

    It is easier and more satisfying to act out anger than to develop a realistic worldview and understand others. Sometimes evil does need to be punished or stopped, but be careful about what you do.

    P.S. The best movie about revenge is Memento. This is my favorite movie. You should rent it.

    Easier yes, more satisfying no (none / 0) (#99)
    by Fon2d2 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:22:54 PM EST

    If it were indeed easier and more satisfying then wouldn't that be the way everybody should act? And if they did, wouldn't we all be living in some form of utopia, with everybody high off the revenge they'd be exacting off of everybody else? Unless perhaps you weren't satisfied with your treatment of the leukemia patients.

    [ Parent ]
    The Best Movie About Revenge... (3.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Guncrazy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:27:43 PM EST

    ...is Unforgiven, with Clint Eastwood. But otherwise, you made some excellent points.

    Race is irrelevant 99.999% of the time. And the 0.001% of the time it is relevant, someone is looking for a donated organ.
    [ Parent ]

    As long as we're on favourites : Payback (n/t) (none / 0) (#109)
    by GhostfacedFiddlah on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:46:07 PM EST

    [ Parent ]
    Shawshank Redemption (none / 0) (#169)
    by libertine on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:41:02 PM EST

    Better because everybody has to live with their mistakes ;)

    "Live for lust. Lust for life."
    [ Parent ]
    American History X (nt) (none / 0) (#277)
    by John Miles on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:58:47 AM EST

    For so long as men do as they are told, there will be war.
    [ Parent ]
    Are you... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by RevLoveJoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:05:33 PM EST

    making this up? It's the funniest thing I've read all day. I can't help but reading like it was written by Jack Handy (Saturday Night Live: Deep Thoughts)

    'one time I beat up a car full of skin heads. Boy were they a bunch of pansies. Later on I found out they were all from the leukemia ward.'

    Your point about thinking before acting. I think it's called 'being a grown-up' - however your point is well taken.

    -- RLJ

    Every political force in the U.S. that seeks to get past the Constitution by sophistry or technicality is little more than a wannabe king. -- pyro9
    [ Parent ]

    I'm not buying this story. (none / 0) (#327)
    by PTBear on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 04:36:04 PM EST

    It totally reads like an urban legend - and a funny one at that!


    "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

    -Attributed to Sigmund Freud
    [ Parent ]

    revenge (4.50 / 4) (#94)
    by RevLoveJoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:12:01 PM EST

    From my younger years ... well, I think I'll take heed in the warning about the persistent of web memory. Suffice it to say, do you have any idea how fast a thermite reaction goes through the hood of a car and drops a blob of molten iron into a carburetor?

    -- RLJ

    Every political force in the U.S. that seeks to get past the Constitution by sophistry or technicality is little more than a wannabe king. -- pyro9

    yes, yes I do <N/T> (none / 0) (#103)
    by techwolf on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:27:46 PM EST

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
    [ Parent ]
    Um..... (none / 0) (#123)
    by wiremind on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:36:57 PM EST

    I'm almost possitive that making your own thermite reactions is illegal in most places.

    But aren't they NEAT!

    [ Parent ]
    hm, I don't know... (none / 0) (#125)
    by RevLoveJoy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:57:21 PM EST

    My HS science teacher (CA, in the 80's) used to demonstrate them on a regular basis (meaning: each quarter, so 3 times per year). I never heard about them being illegal and shortly after college I moved out of the state (unrelated reasons, take your imagination caps off!).

    Got a link?

    - RLJ

    Every political force in the U.S. that seeks to get past the Constitution by sophistry or technicality is little more than a wannabe king. -- pyro9
    [ Parent ]

    "each quarter, so 3 times per year" (none / 0) (#220)
    by ajf on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:50:14 AM EST

    My head hurts.

    "I have no idea if it is true or not, but given what you read on the Web, it seems to be a valid concern." -jjayson
    [ Parent ]
    We take summer off; 4-1 = 3. Q.E.D. (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by derobert on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 04:23:13 AM EST

    [ Parent ]
    the best revenge (4.80 / 10) (#95)
    by Burning Straw Man on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:12:50 PM EST

    most of the time, the best revenge is to simply live a good life. anything is is petty and cheap compared to that. girlfriend screw you over? treat your next girlfriend really well.

    being happy is the best revenge.
    your straw man is on fire...

    yup (none / 0) (#118)
    by TCaptain on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:03:27 PM EST

    girlfriend screw you over? treat your next girlfriend really well

    You might want to add to that, make sure your next girlfriend makes YOU deliriously happy...best revenge ever

    Hello, my name is PID 12759. You "kill -9"ed my parent. Prepare to die. - ENOENT

    [ Parent ]
    "The Best Revenge" (none / 0) (#237)
    by DarkZero on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 10:39:50 AM EST

    And I'm sure that once someone has rolled over and taken whatever the person has given them, that person won't be inclined at all to do it again, because walking all over people and abusing them just works too damn well for them, I guess.

    If people are not punished for their wrongdoings, then they will probably repeat them, because they have found something that works for them. It applies to not only criminals, but to general garden variety assholes, as well.

    [ Parent ]

    Toby Keith? (none / 0) (#331)
    by MicroBerto on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 08:53:26 PM EST

    I'm by no means a country music fan, but you just HAVE to love the song and video to Toby Keith's "How Do You Like Me Now?"

    - GAIM: MicroBerto
    Bertoline - My comic strip
    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe in revenge (3.66 / 3) (#101)
    by Cro Magnon on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:23:59 PM EST

    But there was an incident where some lowlife offered to do some home repair work for my mom. Mom was kinda naive back then and he convinced her to pay in advance. And there was nothing in writing. After a long wait and a lot of excuses, it was clear that he had no intention of either doing the work or refunding Mom's money. But I found out from someone else that this lowlife had an arrest warrant on him. Soon afterwards, the police got an anonymous call about this guy's whereabouts. I have no idea who might have called them. *polishes halo*
    Information wants to be beer.
    When I was a kid (4.85 / 7) (#104)
    by karb on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:29:55 PM EST

    I was at a weekend camping retreat with some kids about my age. I wasn't too popular, and couple of the kids decided to jump me and do something to me, I don't know what. I was laying down and pretending to be asleep. When they grabbed me, I kicked the one kid over and grabbed the ringleader by the neck. They let me go.

    I spent many years thinking of how I could have beat the kid up a little more. I was so angry that this kid had wanted to beat me up because he was popular and I was not.

    I still was thinking this about two years ago. Then I realized that that when we had been in high school, this same kid had been driving a car and skid under a log truck. He had suffered brain damage, the wreck had killed his twin brother and severely maimed two other guys that had been in the back seat.

    He hadn't had a great life, either. Parents were divorced, mom died when he was a kid, etc. I couldn't believe I still wanted revenge on this poor guy.

    If I had the chance again, I would probably be nicer to him, even when he was tormenting me.
    Who is the geek who would risk his neck for his brother geek?

    Doing something to you (4.00 / 7) (#115)
    by theElectron on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:58:03 PM EST

    I wasn't too popular, and couple of the kids decided to jump me and do something to me, I don't know what.

    It's called sodomy. Be glad that you didn't know.

    Join the NRA!
    [ Parent ]

    Not quite (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Rk on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:44:58 PM EST

    I think you picked the wrong group of bullies. AFAIK, high school kids (especially male ones) do not want to be considered homosexual, unless your school was in a really, REALLY bad area. It's more the prison type that goes for anal rape (that's what you mean, I presume).

    They probably had something else in mind, no doubt this would have been little consolation if they'd carried it out. When it comes to humiliating and unpleasant things to do to others, teenage boys have boundless creativity, even if they can't spell char *LONGWORD, add short int SINGLEDIGITINTEGER with short int OTHERSINGLEDIGITINTEGER or do void SIMPLETASK().

    [ Parent ]

    Best Served Cold (4.00 / 3) (#110)
    by jefu on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:49:30 PM EST

    I usually limit my revenge to devising the methods for doing it, and unless there is a very good chance indeed that I'll be able to actually repay the perpetrator in kind (and to scale), the revenge remains only virtual.

    I much prefer plots with humour, inflicting no real damage, and generally annoying. Sometimes I'll try to do the written humour thing - a recent effort built a scientific explanation for why a particular functionary was an idiot - without naming the functionary. This was then distributed to all and sundry - many of whom found it quite funny.

    As an example, I recently lost my job - in large part due to an administrator who was better at lying and screwing employees than much else. This person had a nice closed office. My plot was simple, I'd get a bottle of clove oil and pour/spray it on the carpet - thus rendering the office rather smelly. Eventually the occupant would have to move everything out, steam clean the carpets, then move everything back in. And then comes the punchline - every week or so after that I'd put a few more drops of clove oil into the carpet (under the door is one way - there are lots of others) - so the office will be permanently smelly - but everyone will figure that its just left over smell from the original incident.

    On a rather more cruel note, the person who got me fired is a large woman - so I thought (rather seriously) about building a snow version of her the next time it snowed enough. Picture this : LARGE pile of snow shaped into a semblance of a Large woman lying on her back with legs spread and a piece of 6 by 6 lumber in the (um) appropriate spot. Bright pink nipples. And an unmissable sign or something so nobody could miss the point. All right in front of the building where her office is. And some good photographs so that even after it is destroyed, its memory can live on.

    Ooh, itchy (4.25 / 4) (#114)
    by seymourbunzz on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:56:05 PM EST

    When I was in grade school, I had some neighborhood bullies after me all the time. Finally I got fed up, but I was too small to fight them back.

    Instead I got a pair of rubber gloves and picked a few poison ivy plants. I soaked the leaves in a cup of water overnight, then poured the water into a squirt gun. The rest is left as an exercise for the reader. :)

    That's chemical warfare (3.00 / 1) (#146)
    by bill_mcgonigle on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:41:46 PM EST

    You will be toppled.

    [ Parent ]
    Revenge is a dish best served warm (2.92 / 14) (#117)
    by Locked on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 02:59:44 PM EST

    In my secondary school (Cornwall, won't mention the town) there was a small group of kids (I won't call them a 'gang') who bullied all the usual victim types - computer geeks, those that volunteered to help out with behind-the-scenes stuff etc (every Thursday morning I would help out with the school assembly). Some would complain to teachers but the result was always far from helpful (the bully would know that you snitched on them... and that's it. No punishment. Nothing).

    So a group of us formed a revenge gang called The Alliance. And we 'fought back' in piddly little ways - stealing their stationary, vandalising their textbooks, etc. Nothing serious, but it was very cathartic to be able to think, "heh, wave goodbye to your calculator" whenever someone would kick your shins as you walked past.

    Wednesday afternoons was 'games' (PE, PT, gym, etc). And we would always end up finishing a lot earlier than normal (I guess the teachers allocated time for us to shower, but none of us ever bothered, so we just went home early). This meant more time waiting at the bus stop for our ride home. And you just know what bullies are like when bored. Hiding somewhere and then turning up just before the bus arrived would result in "hiding, were we?" jibes, so it was usually best to just stick it out.

    One Wednesday in late March they were just messing around in the road, playing chicken with the cars and just pissing everyone off. Deadly variant - waiting to see how long you could wait before running across the road in front of a car (at first you wait ten seconds, then nine, then eight, etc, until there's a close call and you start again from ten). Imagine my glee when Paul gets hit.

    Okay, so there was also the "whoah, fuck, wow" element of amazement at what had just happened, but let's be fair here. The guy was a dickhead.

    Paul hadn't died (damn) but was obviously in a bad shape. Ever the 'helpful samaritan', I strode over to his body and pulled it onto the pavement. Man handling him roughly in an faux-clumsy attempt to put him in some sort of lying-down-with-head-awkwardly-resting-against-wall recovery position. I kept doing this until I was convinced that I had 'accidentally' fucked up his neck.

    I stood up and started ordering around the onlookers, playing up the authurative "This man needs help!" good guy. I told them what to do ("keep an eye on him, make sure he doesn't go into shock" - whatever that means) and said that I was going to call for an ambulance. I dashed into the school and called 999.

    No prizes for guessing what happened to Paul. We had to endure a load of patronising assemblies about the dangers of playing chicken (it's dangerous? Really? We never knew that!) and the police were there to hand out the crappiest, most obviously "quick, jot down some scary quotes and photocopy them" leaflets on the dangers of traffic that I had ever seen.

    So, yeah, revenge can work well, but only if it helps you. Otherwise, best forget about it and move on.

    That's kind of horrible. (5.00 / 7) (#122)
    by Dephex Twin on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:35:09 PM EST

    This isn't some clearcut situation, obviously these kids were quite mean to you and your friends, but do you really think "fuck[ing] up his neck" was the "fair" thing to do?  I sure hope he didn't get permanently screwed up from that.  I would have considered him getting hurt badly by the car to be karma enough.

    You didn't teach him a lesson about being a bully... if anything, you taught him that you can be as horrible (or worse) a person as he might have been.

    I'm not trying to judge, who knows what I might have done in the same situation.  I don't think I could have done that without feeling really guilty though.

    Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. -- Homer Simpson
    [ Parent ]

    Why (3.00 / 2) (#162)
    by Anonymous 7324 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:31:06 PM EST

    does morality necessarily play a part in revenge?

    Now, it certainly can, in a "retributive" justice system, but it can also serve as a form of deterrence.

    While no specific quotes come to mind...


    remember how effective Ender's response to both his childhood bully and the one at battle school was. The moral issues are hazy at best (duh), but the effectiveness of his revenge was undeniable.

    [ Parent ]

    Thank you. (none / 0) (#170)
    by Matadon on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:45:10 PM EST

    It's nice to know I'm not the last pragmatic bastard in the world.

    "There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out." — Richard Dawkins.
    [ Parent ]
    Re: (none / 0) (#191)
    by marc987 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:30:16 PM EST

    Standing up or holding ones ground are not a form of revenge.

    Deterrence by mimic is an insane fantasy.

    [ Parent ]

    are you refering to ender? (none / 0) (#352)
    by LilDebbie on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 10:11:43 PM EST

    Beating someone's face into a showerhead until they stop moving (I think that's what happened in the story) is hardly "holding one's ground." Ender lost it, that was the point.

    My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
    - hugin -

    [ Parent ]
    No... i was confusing "Ender" (none / 0) (#379)
    by marc987 on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:41:59 PM EST

    with a previous post.


    [ Parent ]

    No (5.00 / 2) (#343)
    by greenrd on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 03:38:57 PM EST

    This isn't some clearcut situation.

    No, it's totally clear-cut. I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, but but your clearly nice and "see the good side in people" outlook on life has lead you astray here. "Locked" is one sick fuck.

    Murder as revenge for school bullying? (Well, you could say it was attempted - but no-one will ever know)

    That bullying would have to be pretty bad (like, actual rape or something) for me to even begin to consider that provoked.

    No. It was barbaric. End. Of. Story.

    "Capitalism is the absurd belief that the worst of men, for the worst of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all." -- John Maynard Keynes
    [ Parent ]

    Cold blooded.... (5.00 / 1) (#345)
    by Gooba42 on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 03:49:33 PM EST

    The question that comes to mind is not whether I could do this to a person but under what circumstances I would be able to do it.

    The circumstances given here are utterly cold blooded. There was not a definite "breaking point" or act for which this was revenge. If there had been a fight or an attack or something it would be utterly different. I could see going too far in a situation like that, but this was out and out murder.

    I once had to sit on a jury for a situation where we weren't so much determining whether the man was guilty, he had done it and there were no other suspects or anything. The real question was whether it was premeditated or not as he had attempted the murder, failed, but then did finish the unconscious victim. So in the time between the first attempt and the second successful attempt he had "planned" the second try.

    This, by the poster's own admission, was not a passionate crime. It was a planned attempt to take another person's life.

    [ Parent ]
    Cool. (4.00 / 3) (#132)
    by Matadon on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:27:26 PM EST

    I really respect that.  Hopefully his neck and/or back were permafucked after that little incident, and hopefully you've kept in touch with him.  Nothing quite like introducing a potential pain-in-the-ass to the former bully, and then informing them that his (the ex-bully's) present financial and physical state are due to you being pissed at him in grade school.  That you've changed over time, of course, but only to become much nastier.

    I'm a big believer that we'd have a much more polite society if people were taught lessons like this more often...

    "There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out." — Richard Dawkins.
    [ Parent ]

    His neck injuries killed him [nt] (4.33 / 6) (#144)
    by Locked on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:31:21 PM EST

    [ Parent ]
    Even better. (4.00 / 3) (#145)
    by Matadon on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:41:37 PM EST

    And, yes, I know -- I'm not a nice person.

    "There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out." — Richard Dawkins.
    [ Parent ]
    Second!! (4.40 / 5) (#165)
    by Anonymous 7324 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:35:07 PM EST

    once people have finally pulled their heads out of their a$$es and realized that gasp "the world isn't fair!?!", being a nice guy, ethical, moral, and all that other B.S. goes right out the door.

    As for the whiny people who would say "but what would happen if an entire society acted like you?", the answer is that Hobbes was correct about intrinsic human behavior in The Leviathan (i.e. that we are naturally brutish, angry, pissy, selfish, and generally agressive assholes) -- and that we have laws precisely to protect us from each other!

    [ Parent ]

    Um (5.00 / 1) (#342)
    by greenrd on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 03:28:50 PM EST

    once people have finally pulled their heads out of their a$$es and realized that gasp "the world isn't fair!?!"

    Um, strawman. I'm sure plenty of people are aware that the world is very, deeply and fundamentally unfair, and there's very little we can do about that - and yet wouldn't suggest that revenge has nothing to do with morality, a viewpoint that effectively condones murder, or worse.

    "Capitalism is the absurd belief that the worst of men, for the worst of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all." -- John Maynard Keynes
    [ Parent ]

    Wow (3.66 / 3) (#171)
    by coryking on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:46:49 PM EST

    You are a sick motherfucker...

    [ Parent ]
    Who is the dickhead now? (4.33 / 6) (#182)
    by Sloppy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:57:35 PM EST

    Since you messed with the guy's neck after he was hit, that sounds a lot like murder to me. You murdered someone for being a dickhead. That makes you the dickhead. And what do we do to dickheads?
    "RSA, 2048, seeks sexy young entropic lover, for several clock cycles of prime passion..."
    [ Parent ]
    That's beautiful -- I admire you. (1.66 / 3) (#199)
    by evilpenguin on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:24:38 PM EST

    The world would be a better place if more people took this course of action.  Maybe if the bullies feared for their lives they would think twice before picking on people.

    By coincidence, I think "The Boondock Saints" is one of the best films ever made.  Check it out.
    # nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
    [ Parent ]

    Really. (4.66 / 3) (#218)
    by mindstrm on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:07:51 AM EST

    I can honestly say that my enduring the bullies in my life made me a STRONGER person, not weaker.
    I suppose you think that death is a good sentence for those who simply exert soem form of dominance earlier in life, just as happens with all animals?

    The boondock saints is not about bullies. The Boondock Saints is about hardcore criminals not getting away with haenous crimes because someone is there to stop them, vigilante style, sort of.

    Good thing not everyone who gets bullied is a fucking psychopath like this guy.

    [ Parent ]

    You may wish to correct your posting (4.21 / 14) (#179)
    by Eloquence on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:18:58 PM EST

    Paul hadn't died (damn) but was obviously in a bad shape. Ever the 'helpful samaritan', I strode over to his body and pulled it onto the pavement. Man handling him roughly in an faux-clumsy attempt to put him in some sort of lying-down-with-head-awkwardly-resting-against-wall recovery position. I kept doing this until I was convinced that I had 'accidentally' fucked up his neck.

    Since, as you describe, you wanted "Paul" to die, and, as you point out in another comment, he died as the result of his neck injuries (which you claim to have worsened intentionally), you have just confessed to a quite serious crime (aggravated assault at the very least).

    I assume that you are James Andrews, the holder of the domain "yiffle.com"?

    As I said, you might want to correct your statements, before someone gets the idea to call the UK police (+44-8705-777444) and report this incident. We can all have our little fun on the Internet, but when the lives of real people are involved, the fun stops, trolling or not.
    Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy · Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
    spread the word!
    [ Parent ]

    So what we have here... (4.61 / 13) (#209)
    by J'raxis on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:23:26 PM EST

    In a thread about taking revenge, you find the first murderous psychopath, someone who has already admitted to using subtle murder as revenge, and proceed to antagonize him. You are either amazingly stupid, or, having a preemptive revenge plan in the works, amazingly brilliant. I salute you, sir.

    Either way, either your or his eventual removal from the viable gene pool, should prove amusing.

    — The Raxis

    [ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
    [ Parent ]

    As an aside (4.00 / 1) (#189)
    by fluxrad on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:27:14 PM EST

    Ok. you are a cold hearted bastard.

    That being said, your revenge sucks. Haven't you ever read the Casque of Amontillado???

    In order for your revenge to be complete:

    A: You must commit the act with impunity.

    B: Most importantly, your victim must know it was you commiting the act!

    Nothing is quite as sweet as forced attrition.

    "It is seldom liberty of any kind that is lost all at once."
    -David Hume
    [ Parent ]
    You call that revenge? (5.00 / 5) (#217)
    by mindstrm on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:02:19 AM EST

    That's psychotic behavior.

    So in exchange for being bullied you attempted (perhaps sucessfully? You don't say.) to make someone paralyzed for life? Or dead? You think that's COOL

    You demonstrate being above someone by having behavior better than theirs. I bet if it was YOU laying on the ground, "Paul" wouldn't have done the same to you.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, and? (none / 0) (#351)
    by rodgerd on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 05:47:54 PM EST

    Bullying - the sadistic infliction of psychological and physical trauma - isn't psychotic behaviour? If a kid grows up in a society where one is tolerated, accepted, even tacitly encouraged, why wouldn't they learn to react in kind?

    [ Parent ]
    RadioFreeNation (5.00 / 1) (#325)
    by J'raxis on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 02:30:47 PM EST

    Did you see this?

    — The Raxis

    [ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
    [ Parent ]

    Karma... (none / 0) (#337)
    by bigbtommy on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 01:10:03 PM EST

    ...what goes around comes around.
    Seems kinda appropriate based on that article...
    -- bbCity.co.uk - When I see kids, I speed up
    [ Parent ]
    Cold man. (none / 0) (#340)
    by AnalogBoy on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 02:55:14 PM EST

    you killed a dude.  Just to watch him die.
    Save the environment, plant a Bush back in Texas.
    Religous Tolerance (And click a banner while you're there)
    [ Parent ]
    Fool. (none / 0) (#358)
    by SanSeveroPrince on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 05:58:54 AM EST

    Make up more interesting stories, please.


    Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think

    [ Parent ]
    Bwhaha (none / 0) (#359)
    by tonyenkiducx on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 06:14:13 AM EST

    Nice1. And to all you bleeding heart liberals out there, wake the fuck up! Believe it or not, bullys ruin peoples lives. Ive see many a story about kids killing themselves because bullys have harrased them to breaking point. And I know you've heard similair stories.

    I see a planet where love is foremost, where war is none existant. A planet of peace, and a planet of understanding. I see a planet called utopia. And I see us invading that planet, because they'd never expect it
    [ Parent ]
    No pain no gain. (4.00 / 3) (#120)
    by wiremind on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:32:57 PM EST

    I feel no pain, then get no gain.

    When someone does something mean or bad to you, they usually do it for a few reasons, and one of those reasons is to see you in pain.

    If you have the self control, the best way to fight back is to not respond at all, Do not even acknowledge their existence when they are attempting to be mean. This just kills them, because they get NO enjoyment out of your suffering, and they start to feel that they are powerless to hurt you.
    Now i know that what I am saying sounds like Pacifism, but their is an exception, if they try to hurt you, or someone you love, You should fight back with full force(you do weight train, and take some form of karate, don't you?) Physical harm crosses the line.
    I have only have to resort to that once, and I enjoyed it more that I should have.
    As for the rest of my life, simply not giving any response has helped me get back at the person more than I would have ever imagined.

    'fraid I can't agree with you there. (none / 0) (#285)
    by Karellen on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 05:38:18 AM EST

    In my experience, most people who wrong you aren't going out of their way to see you in pain. They're not Evil, they're just inconsiderate.

    Most of the people who've wronged me in the past have done so out of a complete failure to acknowledge me (or the others around me) as someone to give a shit about.

    Someone cuts you up in traffic. Think they're really out to hurt you? Get in line for a tin-foil hat. Think they're just doing what they're doing and have only noticed you enough to make sure they don't damage their car by running directly into you? You're probably closer to the mark.

    Most people who wrong you are doing so because they don't care about you in the slightest, and won't give a shit how you react to their inconsideration unless you involve them in that reaction.

    [ Parent ]

    Revenge is sweet! Except.... (5.00 / 6) (#124)
    by phliar on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 03:46:32 PM EST

    Maybe it's just a sign of imminent middle age, but these days, far too often, I can see things from the other person's perspective, and it just ruins the whole thing. I remember all kinds of things from the past -- the boneheaded things I did and got away with. A couple of times I've even done something mean to retaliate, only to feel like shit later. These days I just try to keep my hands in my pockets and my damn mouth shut.

    Man, sometimes being an adult just sucks!

    Faster, faster, until the thrill of...

    I know what you mean. (4.50 / 2) (#235)
    by bgarcia on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 08:23:12 AM EST

    I know exactly what you mean.

    When I was in my late teens/early 20's, and someone would cut me off on the highway, I would do everything I could to get back at them. Pass them up and cut them off, then hit the brakes right in front of them, tailgate, etc.

    Now when something like that happens, my thought process is more like:

    • I own this car - if it gets damaged, I pay for it.
    • I have 2 kids. If I get hurt, who takes care of them?
    • I just got off work, I'm tired, and I *really* just want to get home.
    Yes, being an adult does sometimes suck.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't quit so soon (none / 0) (#330)
    by MicroBerto on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 08:42:08 PM EST

    Sure, maybe you can't do the wild things that a younger person can afford to do, but you can still get revenge. Throw lit cigarette butts, boogers, loogies, and whatever else. You don't have to be a menace with your car, but you can still be somewhat of a menace with your slob lifestyle :)

    - GAIM: MicroBerto
    Bertoline - My comic strip
    [ Parent ]
    the best revenge on a girl (3.00 / 3) (#126)
    by asv108 on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:00:55 PM EST

    This video is probably the best revenge ever on an ex

    Check it out! 28 megs.

    wrong, wrong -- this is much, much worse: (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Burning Straw Man on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:48:21 PM EST

    this goes in many formats around the web, and is a horrible, horrible thing to do:

    So I had this girlfriend for all of 9 months. She dropped by one afternoon when I was sick with a pan of brownies and a video tape with the simpsons on it (my favorite show). so I start eating the brownies and turn on the tape. midway through it, it cuts to her sucking off some dude. he nuts in her mouth, she looks at the camera, and says "you're dumped. enjoy the brownies" - and spits the mouthful of cum into a bowl of brownie mix.

    Some people deserve to die. Oh well. You just gotta hope for karma on that one.
    your straw man is on fire...
    [ Parent ]

    If one of my GF's did that to me.. (none / 0) (#159)
    by techwolf on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:21:48 PM EST

    well nothing posted so far would even come close to the hell she would go through. it is one thing to tell someone "it's over" and quite another to do something like that! even I wouldn't have considered something like that for revenge, but once that line ios crossed.....

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
    [ Parent ]

    even better (none / 0) (#198)
    by Burning Straw Man on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:22:06 PM EST

    guy cheats on girl. girl "forgives" guy. guy puts girl through private law school. at graduation, girl thanks guy for $120K education and goes home with a professor.
    your straw man is on fire...
    [ Parent ]
    Bull Sh*t! (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Sesquipundalian on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:25:42 PM EST

    If she'd really done that to you, it's like... totally inevitable that you'd have given her parents, freinds, relatives, co-workers, boss, the neighborhood teenagers etc. an edited copy with no simpsons and no 'her talking' at the end. Just the mouth nutting (mouth nutting? Gads, the bitch!) and the home address, phone number, email and other helpful contact information. Some freaks would even pay you a subscription price for regular contact information updates.

    It's almost like there's laws of nature to this stuff... laws of human nature...

    Did you know that gullible is not actually an english word?
    [ Parent ]
    Brownies and Videotape (none / 0) (#304)
    by Mouthpiece on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 02:46:53 PM EST

    ...and the poor dumpee sends a pan of brownies to her parents, along with a copy of the videotape. Game, set, match.

    [ Parent ]
    repulsive! (4.00 / 1) (#152)
    by arcoiris on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:05:48 PM EST

    This video is extremely dissapointing - as is the fact that someone on Kuro5hin would find it worthwhile. While revenge can be sweet and even sometimes necessary, there is a very thick line that should be observed between getting revenge and potentially putting someone into a very harmful situation. A video like this, combined with email, phone number and room number, could lead sick people to terrible acts. I am extremely dissapointed in my favorite online community!!!

    [ Parent ]
    More like nonsensical (4.00 / 1) (#158)
    by bill_mcgonigle on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:19:04 PM EST

    OK, girl dumps guy.  Guy makes video of him having sex with another girl.  That's all we know.  Actually, we don't even know if it's the same guy.

    So, presumabaly he sends it to the girl, hoping to make her mad.  But, guess what, she's already dumped him.  She doesn't care.

    Most likely, she's going to just be annoyed.  She'll save the tape for when he's running for mayor and then mail it to the hometown paper.

    Yeah, good idea.  -1, backfire.

    [ Parent ]

    that is the girl (none / 0) (#161)
    by Lenny on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:27:13 PM EST

    that is the x girlfriend in the clip

    "Hate the USA? Boycott everything American. Particularly its websites..."
    [ Parent ]
    Just remember.... (4.00 / 1) (#185)
    by darthaggie on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:15:43 PM EST

    never do, say, post anything that you wouldn't want your mother/father/brother/sister/best friend/worst enemy to hear, see, or read.

    And that most assuredly includes having sex on-camera...

    I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
    [ Parent ]

    HOLY SHIT thats was funny!! (none / 0) (#156)
    by techwolf on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:17:20 PM EST

    loved it! revenge sweet revenge.......

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
    [ Parent ]

    No, an orgasm is...or, rather, the lack of one. (4.50 / 2) (#174)
    by libertine on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:09:55 PM EST

    I was dating this bee-OO-tiful woman named Kris.  Stacked like a comic book superheroine.  The sex was pretty good, and at first the relationship was too.  However, Kris was also a mental health professional, and unfortunately she used her expertise on my head like an abusive martial artist would use his fist on someone's face.

    Fast forward a couple of years.  I stop rationalizing, and I finally figure out I am being abused.  So I get my dick pierced in order to avoid wanting to have sex with anyone for six weeks.  No sex for six weeks, so that means there is nothing to smooth over how she is treating me.  Now that I can think straight, I break up with her.  Finally.  She says she "can change" during this, etc.  I say we will see in a couple of years.

    Anyways, 2 years pass.  I have been enjoying what the piercings can do for myself and my partners (lets just say that the studs/rings hit ALL the right spots).  I run into hers truly at a Denny's.  She really is more polite, and does seem to have changed.  I agree to rekindle the relationship.

    Now, you may be thinking "you fool!", but you are wrong...I knew I was taking a risk, and kept my boundaries intact.  The thing is, she did not know I had grown this much.  Her growth had consisted of becoming better at hiding her abusive nature.  She had not changed.  The headgames started again in under three weeks.

    Did I walk away?  No.  I wanted her to learn a lesson.  One she would remember if she ever tried to hurt another person again.  One she could NOT forget.

    She is one of those women who can only reach, um, SATISFACTION, with mechanical help.  Nobody, man nor woman, has been able to reach her in that SPECIAL way.  Well, not until we got back into the sack again.  Remember those piercings?  Yes...you guessed it, en flagrante, she is about to have a pivotal moment in her life.  Just not the one she expected.

    Just at that moment, I pulled out, and asked her what she thought of our relationship.  Did she respect me?  Could she care for me?  Would she ever harm me again?  At that moment, I gave her the choice to either change, really change, or deal with knowing that the ONLY other human on the planet who could get her off would never be hers.

    Fortunately for me, and maybe unfortunately for her, she is like most people.  I am much happier with a different person, and she has drifted elsewhere.

    "Live for lust. Lust for life."
    [ Parent ]

    Hrm. (none / 0) (#372)
    by stormysky on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 03:37:02 PM EST

    This doesn't download for me... what was it of, and was it worth watching?  And is there a mirror, if so? :)
    We can face anything, except for bunnies.
    [ Parent ]
    Revenge is best when done "properly" (4.00 / 6) (#127)
    by DJTiesto on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:01:21 PM EST

    I'm a young person (25 yr old), and I look no older than 18.  As a result I am often mistaken for some stupid kid that can be pushed around.

    A few months ago my friends and I made an agreement to rent a house.  The landlord was going on vacation and was supposed to call us when she got back to make an appointment to sign the lease.  Long story short, we didn't hear from her for 2.5 weeks.  Eventually we drove past the house to find other people there moving in.

    I called her and left a message confronting her with the fact that she screwed us over.  She returns my call (finally) and goes off the handle for no good reason, saying we had "no business" going to the house.  For crying out loud it was a public street in a medium sized city! It's not like we broke in the house or even set foot on the property.  

    I politely asked for our deposit back, to which she told me it was non-refundable.  I said, in a more politically correct way, that it was total bullshit the way she took out money and screwed us over.  No apology, no refund, nothing but grief.  I threatened to contact the real estate agency directly, to which she said "Sure...and here's my supervisor's phone number".

    Uh-uh.  No way.  You think I'm gonna call your immediate supervisor, who you're probably chummy with in the first place?  The person you've probably already told YOUR side of the story to  and said "yeah these stupid kids are gonna call you.  Just ignore them"?  Not a chance.

    How about if I go to the company web page and get the name of the customer relations head at your corporate headquarters, and contact them directly?  They've never seen me, so they have no preconceived image in their head of what you think is a snot-nosed punk.  Now all I have to do it write a thorough, truthful, and most importantly ARTICULATE letter describing the whole situation.  Put in a few choice phrases about how disappointed I am, and how I will never do business with their company again.

    Three days later (today) I get a response.  The matter is being investigated, and I will be contacted shortly.  Maybe she'll be fired, maybe she'll get a tiny slap on the wrist.  The main point is she will be reprimanded.  She thought she could push the "little guy" around, until the little guy got the big guys on his side.  And that feels good.

    Similar story, I was shopping at a well-known candle store.  The sales clerk forgot to put the candles in the bag, although I didn't notice until I got home.  The company refused to replace $4 worth of candles to keep a customer happy.  End result: I complained to the Better Business Bureau and a check for $4 arrives in the mail a few months later.  Not a big deal, but it's the principal behind it all.  I got my money, they lost a customer.  Too bad for them...they could have avoided it.

    Aw man. (none / 0) (#227)
    by EriKZ on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:17:58 AM EST

    Dang, that's a cool story. Too bad it's not done yet. :-/

    [ Parent ]
    Revenge at best is a time-bomb (4.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Bostik on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 04:51:15 PM EST

    I don't usually believe in revenge; most of the times in life we tend to get even without especially trying. But being wronged without reason, in a manner that really is aimed below my belt - then I get Biblical.

    The idea is to plant the revenge in a "fire and forget" way. Something that takes years to work, but requires no actions on my part besides the original act. Let me enlighten this a bit.

    I was wronged some years back, in a manner that struck me where it hurt the most. My trust in certain things was both abused and smashed. It was personal. The person in question had committed something that would be categorised as a crime. I considered for a while and decided to report this person's actions to the police. It would have made no difference at the time, and the issue would have been very likely dropped quite soon. However, that incident would have given the person a permament entry for the records. The person in question studies and aims to work in a field where trust and honesty are practically prerequisites for any kind of meaningful job. Also, companies are increasingly doing background checks on their potential employees...

    Do the math. It is possible that my payback would never have had any kind of effect. It's also possible that it could have ruined the offender's life for years to come. That's the beauty of it. A good revenge is a gift that keeps on giving, once launched. - It's only because another person persuaded me to hold back and not report the offender that this particular revenge has not been put forth. At times I keep wondering how that happened and why did I let the issue pass.

    Revenge is indeed best served cold. But, like any time-bomb, it may turn out as dud.

    There is no such thing as good luck. There is only misfortune, and its occasional absence.
    Trolling as revenge (3.16 / 12) (#140)
    by egg troll on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:19:33 PM EST

    I like to take revenge on the holier-than-thou people who have a near-religious devotion to a second-rate OS. Its fun - and easy - to bait them by posting ludicrous stories that only the most dim-witted and gullible believe.

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    That linux troll (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by coryking on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:37:24 PM EST

    The "bait" one - that was beautiful. Good work!!

    [ Parent ]
    No, no... (none / 0) (#230)
    by KOTHP on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:47:32 AM EST

    The "stories" one was, IMHO, superior. Bonus points for posting it to rec.pets.cats.

    [ Parent ]
    That's not revenge. (2.33 / 3) (#168)
    by Rk on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:38:02 PM EST

    Please find an English dictionary. Look up "revenge".

    Hint: Revenge is personal. [1]
    Posting flamebait on Usenet isn't personal, it's stupid and childish. If we're talking about master trollwork, your interjection could be forgiven, but your posts aren't even witty. For starters, nobody is going to claim Windows 95 is suitable for running on servers unless they are a total idiot[2]. When you commit an act of revenge, it's the other person that's supposed to look like an idiot.

    [1] Unless you have paranoid schizophrenia or type I bipolar disorder AKA "Everyone is out to get me!"

    [2] People who call their computer a "hard disk" are excluded from this statement.

    [ Parent ]

    My Dictionary (4.00 / 2) (#177)
    by egg troll on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:13:27 PM EST

    This is from M-W.com. I don't see anything regarding revenge being personal. Please educate me where you've found that it need be personal.

    Main Entry: re·venge
    Pronunciation: ri-'venj
    Function: transitive verb
    Inflected Form(s): re·venged; re·veng·ing
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French revengier, from Old French, from re- + vengier to avenge -- more at VENGEANCE
    Date: 14th century

    1. : to avenge (as oneself) usually by retaliating in kind or degree
    2. : to inflict injury in return for <revenge an insult>
    - re·veng·er noun

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    [ Parent ]

    Again (none / 0) (#248)
    by tzanger on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:27:03 PM EST

    The definition you post shows that the trolls you spew aren't revenge at all. Oh well.

    [ Parent ]
    How so? (none / 0) (#264)
    by egg troll on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:04:16 PM EST

    The definition you post shows that the trolls you spew aren't revenge at all. Oh well.

    Please elaborate how its not revenge.

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    [ Parent ]

    How is it revenge? (none / 0) (#275)
    by tzanger on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 09:45:11 PM EST

    Instead of my showing how it isn't revenge, how about you explain how trolling Linux guys is revenge? Did one somehow wrong you so you now go around trolling all of them to see if one will bite? How does one biting so you can jump up and down clapping your hands and insanely giggling "YHBT! YHL!! HAND!!!" avenge you? Did this big bad Linux OS come in and ruin something for you? I fail to see any kind of wrongdoing to you for you to have any kind of revenge; I only see a pathetic person trolling newsgroups for kicks.

    BTW thanks for the 1 rating over here; I suppose that's also your idea of revenge. Hope you feel better -- I see you have a sense of humour to match your skewed idea of vengeance.

    [ Parent ]
    Uh huh... (none / 0) (#324)
    by egg troll on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 01:22:57 PM EST

    Instead of my showing how it isn't revenge, how about you explain how trolling Linux guys is revenge?

    As I thought you couldn't support your arguement. Better luck next time!

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    [ Parent ]

    "It's" not "Its" dammit! (none / 0) (#193)
    by ItsNotItsDammit on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:50:35 PM EST

    "it's" == it is
    "its" == belongs to it

    [ Parent ]
    Who versus Whom (none / 0) (#200)
    by egg troll on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:49:35 PM EST

    Okay, Mister Smartypants...can you explain to the K5 audience when to use "who" and when to use "whom"?

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    [ Parent ]

    Who is nominative. Whom is accusative or dative. (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by ItsNotItsDammit on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:53:06 PM EST

    You use 'who' in situations where you would use 'he' or 'she' in the equivalent statement. You use 'whom' where you would use 'him' or 'her'.

    [ Parent ]
    Correct! (none / 0) (#203)
    by egg troll on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:57:11 PM EST

    Yes that is correct. Please see Rusty for your years supply of Turtle Wax and Rice-a-Roni.

    He's a bondage fan, a gastronome, a sensualist
    Unparalleled for sinister lasciviousness.

    [ Parent ]

    That's not revenge (none / 0) (#247)
    by tzanger on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:25:45 PM EST

    That's trolling. Two completely separate things.

    [ Parent ]
    Anonymity (4.25 / 4) (#149)
    by Perianwyr on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:56:00 PM EST

    No matter what you do, be anonymous. Sure, some people may like to gloat, but it's more fun to simply add more noise to the background levels we all deal with every day. It's less fun to laugh in someone's face than it is to be the secret instigator of the hand of God.

    Think about it- what's more frustrating, to have a direct target for your rage, or to have nothing to hurl it at but empty space?

    what? (2.14 / 7) (#150)
    by gps on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 05:56:36 PM EST

    that's horrible.  seeking revenge is just stooping lower than the said offender.

    the only true "revenge" is to take whatever is dished out to you smiling and let that be the morons demoralizing downfall.

    Dead (none / 0) (#369)
    by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 12:08:19 PM EST

    Of course, when someone is laughing at your dead body, marvelling at their own proficiency with a nice baseball bat, who will be the winner then, eh?  Quit your whining pussy.  Someone might just shut you up.  Permanently.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't have the patience to wait for it to cool (4.00 / 1) (#153)
    by borful on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:06:59 PM EST

    If I'm going to take revenge at all, it's going to be immediate. I just can't wait for the dish to cool. That sort of revenge just tends to be stupid.

    However, at one time in my life, I had a pretty good system. I had read a short story by Isaac Asimov called "The Acquisitive Chuckle". The hero gets revenge on the bad guy with pure mental judo. Here's how I did it:

    First, obtain a reputation for being devious.

    Then, when wronged, try to give the appearance of someone who has a plan in the works. Your target sees this, knows of your devious reputation and starts imagining things. You don't really need to pursue it any farther. They'll freak themselves out.

    Simple and elegant.

    - borful
    Money is how people with no talent keep score.

    you're pounding boyscout... (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Sesquipundalian on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:19:53 PM EST

    Issaacc Aassiimmoovv sophistry (never sure about which letters to double with that guy) and you've got the gall to call any common sense strategty that includes regrouping and choosing time and place to conserve energy while defeating an opponent, stupid,... you're calling that stuff stupid?!?

    Wake up, person!

    Don't take that revenge being served cold stuff to mean revenge without emotional involvement. That's just an idiom that expresses a common sense battle strategy. Specifically, wait until you can defeat your opponent inexpensively.

    'Inexpensively' is meant to be taken in the broad sense and should of course include time and materials costs, but should also include long term and meta costs (implications for future income, lifestyle, personal psychological comfort, psychological comfort of loved ones etc.)

    It will look to outsiders like the revenge was served cold (ie; witthout emotional involvement) this yeilds it's own inherent intimidation based advantage, but it's true purpose is in that this technique will dramatically lower the ongoing cost of revenge as a general lifestyle maintenance tool. Indeed the revenge is best served this way because then it can be managed and scheduled efficiently, affording us economies of scale that allow us to purchase our revenge in bulk. Metaphorically speaking, revenge is no longer a life disrupting activity, now it is managed, sanitary and discreet. Some have lots of well practiced revenge in stock to dole out should people get in their way. People with large quantities of this stuff can easily ascend to power, as they can machinate power for the most part anonymously (after all, now thanks to efficient scheduling and planning, they can do all the dirty work themselves rather than having to rely on fate or the hopefull goodwill of strangers and assasins).

    A word to the wise, the cold revenge stuff is meant to be a labour saver, as in something that frees you up from those countless hours spent plotting, hair pulling and and filling personal diaries with small nihlist crazywriting.

    Now you can spend more time playing with children, building shelters for small animals, making paintings of sunshine, and just being a generally well adjusted human being.

    It's use as a productivity enhancer is contra-indicated and will no doubt lead others to fear and despise you. Think of examples like Saddam Hussien, Walt Disney, Dale Carnegie and Sam Walton. People you engage in revenge for more than an hour or two per month totally suck.

    Revenge is an important part of freedom, independance and self determination. Sometimes people do sh*tty things to you because they thought no-one would stop them. You should probably bother to do something about it!

    Did you know that gullible is not actually an english word?
    [ Parent ]
    That was an episode of M*A*S*H (none / 0) (#188)
    by ChiChiCuervo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:27:04 PM EST

    ya know? the one where Hawkeye sings "Your the Tops" in his undies on top of a table?

    [ Parent ]
    Missed opportunity. (4.00 / 2) (#157)
    by spcmanspiff on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:18:58 PM EST

    Unfortunately, I don't believe in revenge, or I'd have a long story about how throughly I had wreaked holy vengance upon a lowly worm of an ex-boss.

    Setting: Tiny start-up ISP (living room style) in a very small town. Everyone knows everyone else. Homophobia abounds. (Trying not to give too much away, um, same state as Matthew Sheppard.)

    The boss: Ex-police dispatcher, recently remarried, two new little kids.

    Pre-history: I get an after-school job doing phone service. I'm getting paid okay ($7/hour) and get to do phone & on-site troubleshooting of Win 3.1, Win95, and Mac OS PPP connections. Boss praises me every chance he can even while having me lie to customers left & right.

    Scummy side-event: Service goes out for two weeks because boss tries to install warezed WinNT on a production machine. Oops.

    Event 1: I happen to notice a naughty picture on Boss's desktop. Said naughty picture is of a guy.

    Scummy side-event: Driving with boss to customer's place. "Nice" part of town. He sees a native americans couple walking on sidewalk. Asks me: "What are they doing in this part of town?" Tries to pass it of as just a joke.

    Event 2: More naughty pictures, and movies too. None of it straight. Boss is definitely origin (not his wife or anything). I decide to ignore it unless something else happens.

    Scummy side-event: Overhear conversation about pulling kids out of day-care because they don't want them around the new kid -- who happens to be black.

    Event 3: Boss gets investment offer.

    Event 4: Boss cuts pay to $5, hours to 15 -- becuase he's decided that $7 is "too much" for "high school kids". McDonalds pays 5.15.

    Event 5: After working for a weekr or so at this new pay level, I get chewed out -- in a written memo, the first ever -- for something stupid (using the pager for support calls on a Sunday instead of hanging out by the phone; previously expressly permitted).

    Event 6: I assume that a "letting go" is imminent. I write a letter announcing two weeks notice and why I'm leaving. I try to be professional.

    Event 7: The next day, I was told "get out of this office before I kick your ass out!"


    It would have been a public service to go public with the socially incriminating stuff and talk to a lawyer about the legally incriminating stuff -- not to mention make for quite a revenge story.

    Still, I'm glad I just walked away.


    Unsolicited advice. (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Apuleius on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 06:33:27 PM EST

    If you're still in school and you quit a side job, always confine your reason to "I need to study harder." People with defensive egos don't take kindly to criticism from kids.

    There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
    [ Parent ]
    I thought I did pretty good, considering. (none / 0) (#175)
    by spcmanspiff on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:12:34 PM EST

    My first draft read something like:

    " You cut my pay, you stupid, greedy, racist, stuck-in-the-closet, fuck! And now you're trying a bunch of bullshit so you can feel justified firing me in a week or two! "

    Anyway, this was long ago in a galaxy far, far, away. Ancient history, and all that.

    I posted it because it was the closest opportunity I ever had for evil revenge, even if I didn't actually take it.


    [ Parent ]

    The proper way to do Revenge (4.60 / 5) (#173)
    by Mr.Surly on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:05:20 PM EST

    Social feedback is a thing sorely lacking in today's society. Back in the old days (say medieval France), if you weren't well liked in the village (assumedly because you were a jerk, or a heretic) they burned down your house, and drove you out of town. This is where the term "to get fired" came from.

    These days, mostly due to technological advances (transportation, communication), the immediate personal feedback just isn't there. Two examples:

    1) Someone cuts in line in front of you at the movies. You get in their face, maybe get in a fight, maybe win, maybe lose. Either way, the cutter has been informed that they're a jerk, and that their behavior is unacceptable. Eventually that person will stop being a jerk due to overwhelming social pressure.

    2) Someone cuts you off on the freeway; the automotive equivalent of cutting in line. Your choices are limited. Flip them off, get ahead of them and cut them off, follow them to their destination and tell them off / pummel them. Applying the proper social pressure is somewhat more difficult because they're in a moving motor vehicle.

    I believe that this social feedback is essential to good communities and good neighbors. People are often inconsiderate jerks because they haven't been taught that their actions aren't socially acceptable.

    The solution? Tell people. Make sure that they understand that their action is considered to be socially unacceptable. I recently moved into a new apartment (lowrise multibuilding) complex. The neighbors in the next building had their TV/Stereo turned up so loud nearly every night that I had to turn up my own TV just to hear it. So every time it happened, I went and knocked on their door and nicely asked them to keep it down. They were always superficially nice about it, but I could tell they didn't like me telling them to be quite. After doing that a few times, I don't hear them any more. Here's the strange part. I know that it rattled the walls of the other 3 apartments they were attached to. It was loud in my apartment in a different building. It's obvious that none of their neighbors had ever asked them to turn it down before. The probably complained to management. Management (naturally) did nothing. Got a problem with your neighbor? Talk to them. It often goes a lot farther than talking to the police or the property manager.

    Of course, the above only covers small slights encountered with strangers or neighbors. In the context of this article, if you're going to get revenge, if at all possible, make sure the person knows why a punishment has been extracted from them. For example, if you want to slash your neighbors tires because their goddamn car alarm keeps going off im the middle of the night, then put a note on their windshield that says "love your car alarm." Don't do this if you've already "talked" to them. That would be stupid.

    This story and its comments are horrifying. (3.00 / 12) (#176)
    by qpt on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:13:02 PM EST

    I had no idea Kuro5hin could claim so many wretched, morally bankrupt people among its readership.

    If so many people cannot conduct themselves with grace and forgiveness with respect to relatively minor matters, how can we ever expect lasting peace and social unity? Tempting it is to suppose that our moral progress has placed us beyond risk of committing the same sorts of atrocities that we hear happening in far-off parts of the world. If petty blows to our pride drive us to grossly disproportionate rage, though, how can we really say how we would act if subjected to substantial injustice?

    Please, forgive. Perhaps you will never reap any benefit from your mercy, but others will. Your victims' children will inherit rage from their fathers and wrath from their mothers if you task yourself with vengeance and there will never be harmony. Let your response to injustice instead be measured, lawful, and above all, merciful, so those who come after can have figures of strength and integrity to emulate. The world will not change in your lifetime, but you may die knowing that you did your part to lay the foundation for a better future and know that you did not live in vain.

    The Christian God claimed vengeance as His sole right. Even if one denies Him, revenge is too dire a weapon for any mortal to wield.

    Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.

    Hrm. (none / 0) (#208)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:23:06 PM EST

    I'm surprised by the number of comments that contain the message "revenge is bad." This article ended up with a lot of heavyweight thinking. In my mind, filling someone's car with shaving cream for taking your girlfriend isn't exactly something God would care about.

    Plus, this is the modern world of today. My children won't car who slighted me, and their children won't even know my name.

    But I admire the world you live in.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    My, aren't you impressive! (1.50 / 2) (#223)
    by epepke on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:44:06 AM EST

    I bet you'd never try to put anybody down. Oopsie! You just did. Mirabile dictu.

    The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett

    [ Parent ]
    Quite right. (none / 0) (#225)
    by qpt on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:00:03 AM EST

    We must not correctly point out morally reprehensible behavior lest we, goodness forbid, damage someone's self esteem.

    Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.
    [ Parent ]

    Wrong (none / 0) (#228)
    by epepke on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:20:32 AM EST

    "We" should be able to point out whatever "we" like. But then, "we" should at least have the basic decency to admit that "we" are being vituperative. And if "we" don't have the decency to admit that, then maybe "we" should get down off "our" moral high horse.

    The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett

    [ Parent ]
    Did I ever deny it? (none / 0) (#232)
    by qpt on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:50:09 AM EST

    The title of my comment, "This story and its comments are horrifying," should perhaps have indicated the general tone of my remarks. Since I never criticized anyone for expressing disapproval or censure, but directed my invective instead toward acts of revenge, your initial reply struck me as inappropriate.

    Do you wish me to admit that I was harsh? Of course I was harsh, but that admission is superfluous given the that anyone could tell I was being severe simply by reading my comment. Now, if you have a pertinent criticism that you wish to make, I invite you to do so. If not, however, please stop nipping at my heels.

    Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.
    [ Parent ]

    Bah (none / 0) (#231)
    by Irobot on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:48:54 AM EST

    I'll assume I'm not responding to a parody of sorts. You make the mistake of assuming that "revenge" is not commensurate with the act. It doesn't have to be morally bankrupt, needn't be as extreme as atrocity indicates, nor does it necessarily lead to a world without harmony. You also seem to have an odd conception of lawful (Let your response to injustice instead be measured, lawful, and above all, merciful). It seems to me, in an overly-simplified synopsis, that laws exist for two reasons - 1) to maintain social order/norms, and 2) to ensure an equal application of rules to everyone. Neither says that the law shouldn't be vengeful.

    I really think that "forgiveness" is an over-emphasized virtue. Total forgiveness is giving tacit approval of evil behavior. Yes, everyone has their flaws and makes mistakes. Yes, if one believes in a Christian god (or some form of divine revenge), sinners will be punished...eventually. But why should actions that weren't mistakes be forgiven? After all, what is "justice" other than "getting what one deserves?" Which sometimes amounts to revenge.


    The one important thing I have learned over the years is the difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self seriously. The first is imperative and the second is disastrous. -- Margot Fonteyn
    [ Parent ]

    Regarding your forgiveness... (none / 0) (#303)
    by z1 on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:52:52 PM EST

    Is this the same forgiveness shown by the Catholic Priesthood to his pedophile subculture that keeps them under raps and out of the justice system where they belong? Your credibility is lacking
    The culmination of Human history is me.
    [ Parent ]
    Up one level (none / 0) (#307)
    by Irobot on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 03:40:46 PM EST

    Unless I'm utterly dense, I think this should've appeared one level up. Just thought you'd like to know...


    The one important thing I have learned over the years is the difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self seriously. The first is imperative and the second is disastrous. -- Margot Fonteyn
    [ Parent ]

    A counter anecdote. (5.00 / 3) (#178)
    by Apuleius on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:16:34 PM EST

    Up until my junior year of high schoolI was a bullied nerd. Then I had a gym class with this guy who was a total teflon man. Tall Native American guy, long hair, leather jacket, fondness for Van Halen, and the kind of demeanor that shouted "it is clearly not in your best interest to trifle with me." He was friendly toward outcasts like me because nobody was going to take him to task for it. So I started aping him (his mannerisms, anyway. Leather and long hair becomes me not). And the bullying ceased. The catch? To do it, I had to drop every grudge I had. SO I never got revenge on anyone. And oh, Joe G., of LTHS '93, I still owe you big.

    There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
    Small-ass world (none / 0) (#319)
    by pauly on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 02:24:23 AM EST

    And oh, Joe G., of LTHS '93, I still owe you big.
    LTHS, eh? Then I have one word for you: skid

    LTHS '90

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe not so small. (none / 0) (#326)
    by Apuleius on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 04:34:36 PM EST

    Must be a different LTHS. Your mascot was the Indians?

    There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
    [ Parent ]
    well, close anyway (none / 0) (#385)
    by pauly on Fri Sep 06, 2002 at 03:51:52 PM EST

    Must be a different LTHS. Your mascot was the Indians?

    (straining to recall...)We were Lions. Here's to late night overzealousness...

    [ Parent ]

    Not exactly revenge ... (5.00 / 5) (#181)
    by j1mmy on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 07:26:17 PM EST

    ... but this short story on salon.com is fantastic. The protagonist gets screwed, but turns the situation around and does something constructive.

    Best damn story I've read (none / 0) (#207)
    by blixco on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:19:25 PM EST

    in at least six weeks. Thanks for the link. Others need to see this story!
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]
    biochips (none / 0) (#296)
    by randr on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 10:43:55 AM EST

    I agree--a great yarn. Made me think of how biochips that 'grow' might be able help parapelegics with severed spinal cords, by bridging the damaged section.

    [ Parent ]
    A Vengeful God (4.40 / 5) (#186)
    by Pax Unix on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:22:09 PM EST

    A couple of years ago my wife and I had parked outside of a clothing store. She's pre-surgery (total hip replacement) and therefore if she is going to be accompanying me into any store or whatever, we will always park in the closest available, designated handicapped spot and dutifully hang the handicapped sign on the rear-view mirror. At that time, no spots were available so I had to drop her off and then go park the car. On my way into the store, I notice that no spots were available because there was a car parked in the only handicapped spot. The car did not have designated plates or a sign indicating it can legally occupy that spot. I took a small piece of paper and on it I wrote:

    If you ever park in a spot like this again, I'll break both of your legs. Then you can park here whenever you want.

    Love, God

    I made sure no one was looking and slipped it under the windshield wiper. The car was gone when we came out. I hope someone got the message.

    Right. (none / 0) (#213)
    by mindstrm on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:05:23 PM EST

    And what if the person WAS handicapped and their sign was stolen? Did you stop to see who it really was, or just jump to conclusions?
    Perhaps they parked there in an emergency?

    [ Parent ]
    If either of those were the case, (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by acceleriter on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 11:26:42 AM EST

    then the target would have had no reason to have been offended. In fact, s/he might very well have felt the same way about inconsiderate pricks who think they're too good to walk a few feet and park in spaces reserved for the infirm and handicapped.

    [ Parent ]
    Very possibly true. (none / 0) (#256)
    by Pax Unix on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:12:52 PM EST

    At worst, my action would provoke an indignant feeling in whomever was responsible for parking there. If that was the straw that broke the camel's back for that person, then I would surmise that he or she is too forgetful about the handicapped sign or needs to acquire one.

    It does bring to mind a question, though: is there anything inherently wrong with an act of revenge (large or small) if it doesn't actually harm anyone or anything?

    Subquestion: Would having one's pride hurt or ego bruised count as harm?

    [ Parent ]

    You're absolutely right (5.00 / 2) (#380)
    by Echad on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:57:50 PM EST

    And it's my experience that when someone glances at a car that has parked in a handicapped spot with people in it who don't "appear" to be handicapped (but are, with something not immediately visible) that they are usually more than happy to explain, point out their tag, or if they forgot to put the tag up (but it's in the car) apologize and put the tag up right away.

    People who genuinely need handicapped spots are almost always pissed off by people who are inconsiderate and use the spots when they don't need them. If a person who did have a right to use the spot got such a note (if I did, for example) I'd laugh or smile and think "more power to you" and probably tell all my friends about it (while being embarrassed for forgetting my tag) and try to figure out a way to print out lots of flyers with the same message, and all of us carry a dozen or so around with us to be placed on any car that looked like it needed one! (a car parked in a handicapped spot without any handicapped tag or plates or other indication that it had the right to be there.

    In fact, I'd consider that far from "rash" behavior.. I'd consider it a public service!

    Nothing says "no nookie" like a house on wheels!
    [ Parent ]

    Yes, yes, yes (5.00 / 1) (#255)
    by Pax Unix on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:08:06 PM EST

    They may have had their sign stolen. They may not have received their sign yet in the mail. They may have been taking a disabled friend on an errand and not have the sign because they are not disabled themselves.

    Yes, there are any number of valid reasons that person may have legitimately parked there. It does not change the fact that there are SO many times where the person parked in the handicapped spot does not have a sign or plate legally permitting them to park there. I realize that I would have been perfectly within my rights to call the police and report the car, the owner of which would have then received a parking ticket (and only if the police got there in time, if at all).

    My action, while perhaps rash and definitely spur-of-the-moment, made a point and if that person should not have parked there, he or she will hopefully think twice in the future.

    (I think this also emphasizes one other facet of revenge: many times it is motivated by the "straw that broke the camel's back" feeling.)

    [ Parent ]

    Another Car Parking Story (none / 0) (#268)
    by SEWilco on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:48:06 PM EST

    I came out of a store once and found that someone had parked behind me in a diagonal parking area, so I had cars on all sides.
    They had left a door unlocked.
    The car had a manual transmission and the steering wheel was locked with the wheels turned from their parking turn.
    Put the car in neutral, pushed it into the aisle...and drove my car away.

    [ Parent ]
    Another car story (none / 0) (#341)
    by farmgeek on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 03:13:59 PM EST

    We had a girl in my unti who insisted on taking up two parking slots in the very overcrowded parking lot for our barracks.

    Unfortunately for her, she drove a light weight compact.

    I waited until she took up two slots at night, went out and scooted the rear end of her car around so that the car was now parallel in the slots with one car parked about 1 foot in front of her's and one about a foot to the rear of her car.

    I got chewed out by the First Seargent the next day, but it was well worth it.  I explained my reasoning to him and he let me off with an ass chewing and a promise to not do it again.

    [ Parent ]

    Handicapped space revenge (5.00 / 5) (#282)
    by fencepost on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 02:21:43 AM EST

    Here is a worthwhile posting (not from me) about just this subject.
    Sherry she had big ones / Sally had some too /
    But Allison had little ones / What hate to go to school
    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely Hysterical (5.00 / 1) (#381)
    by Echad on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 09:07:29 PM EST

    I read the story you referred us to. It was absolutely hysterical. I don't think it's an accident that you have gotten a bunch of "5"s for your score on the comment -- I know I gave you one, and both of us laughed out loud... I knew a punchline was coming, but I had no idea it would be that good.

    Great story, thanks for sharing it.

    Nothing says "no nookie" like a house on wheels!
    [ Parent ]

    Nature's revenge for parking (none / 0) (#357)
    by Quila on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 05:47:38 AM EST

    A friend of mine bought a shiny new BMW and normally parked it in his reserved space in front of his apartment. One day he drove home and found someone had parked in his spot, requiring him to park around the corner.

    That night a strong wind storm blew a huge clay roof shingle off and through the violator's windshield.

    Poetic justice.

    [ Parent ]

    Huge stray storm you say? (none / 0) (#366)
    by Afty on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 09:24:56 AM EST

    I think your friend should probably attend anger management classes. ;)

    [ Parent ]
    'twas a big storm (none / 0) (#382)
    by Quila on Thu Sep 05, 2002 at 08:41:46 AM EST

    Made headlines all over. It took down trees and blew off a lot more shingles than just that one.

    [ Parent ]
    Avenge with care (none / 0) (#371)
    by wurp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 02:44:17 PM EST

    A good friend of mine, a half panamanian fellow about 25 years old, pulled his little red Del Sol (handicapped tags in place) into a handicapped space, hopped out, and started walking in.  Someone called out to him "Hey, asshole!  You can't park there!"  My friend walked over to talk with the fellow about it.

    My friend told the guy "You know, I might have gone all day without thinking about my handicap." as he pulled up his pantleg and tapped on his titanium prosthetic.  "But now you've reminded me that I'll never have two legs again, and the cancer that took my leg will probably kill me.  Thanks a lot."  My friend walked off, and the guy was feeling about an inch high.

    The sinovial sarcoma that caused my friend's leg to be amputated did in fact kill him, about five years later.  Things are not always what they seem, and a hotheaded vengeful response often punishes the innocent more than the guilty.
    Buy my stuff
    [ Parent ]

    Avenge w/ Care? Try "Read with Comprehension (5.00 / 1) (#378)
    by Echad on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:41:53 PM EST

    You know, I read your note and I thought about it. These are my conclusions.

    First: I'm genuinely sorry about your Panamanian friend. It's horrible to lose a limb, horrible to die young, tragic to lose a friend, and unutterably sad to die at all at any time.. life is far too full of loss and pain. I can vouch for that first hand.. and wish I couldn't.

    I want to say a couple of things regarding your response. You won't like them, but you should read them anyway. It seems that you want, or maybe need, to be angry on behalf of your friend, and you seized, with righteous (and in this case, inappropriate) indignation and anger on the first person who did something that you thought was similar to that which had been done to your friend by the idiot in the parking lot who confronted him when he saw him walking.

    There is a difference though, and that difference makes your response altogether inappropriate. You see, I am the wife in question.. the one with the disability. I'm in my 30's and have to have a total hip replacement following multiple painful operations that have left my right leg full of pins and plates and more pain than I care to discuss. More pain than the heaviest pain killers can control.

    And you know what? It sucks to be crippled. It sucks to take that pain medication every day.. and to never feel good. And you know what else sucks? I'll tell you what else sucks:

    People who DON'T read messages and comments clearly.

    You see; Your friend HAD his tags on his car. The comment my spouse posted (A Vengeful God) was about someone who DID NOT have ANY TYPE of indication on his or her car that they were handicapped and had the right to use the spot. AND, in fact, most handicapped folks will respond PLEASANTLY if you see them walking "appearing" to be okay, and then glance around to see if they have a sticker. In my experience they usually smile, often somewhat ruefully, and say something about their disability.. something like "Yup, diabetes. I can stand, but not much more." Or, "Yes, I do have tags, I noticed you looking. I just drove my (fill in the blank) who is handicapped and I also hate it when people use the spots without identification."

    So, yes, I'll agree with you. The person who approached your friend and tried to tell him off was a schmuck, and had no right to do so and deserved being told off himself.

    BUT THAT SITUATION IS UTTERLY DIFFERENT from the one where a bloody NOTE is left for someone who had no handicapped tags or registration of any kind visible on their vehicle.

    If they really were handicapped and had FORGOTTEN their tags, then they might remember them next time, and think of the note with humor. I know I would.

    You see, from what I've learned, if the person genuinely had the right to use the spot they probably ALSO hate it when people who DON'T have the right to use them do use them.. because it takes away from our small amount of independence, something we treasure and have so very little of, given that we need so many things done for us, and so much help. Given all that, if the person who got that note genuinely had the right to use the spot, the note would make them laugh, because it would MIRROR JUST WHAT THEY FEEL about the idiots who use the spots when they shouldn't.

    If, however, the person DIDN'T have the right to use the spot, and felt embarrassed, knowing that someone had seen them and that it wasn't cool and that people wouldn't allow that sort of thing to pass without challenging it.. THEN GREAT! Maybe next time they'll park someplace else.

    The point of this long post is this; I hate being disabled. I hate it so much because it cripples more than my leg.. more than my body. It makes me cry and mourn for the years lost, the fun I can't have, the things I can't do, the HORRIBLE GODAWFUL DEPENDENCE on others. NO ONE wants to be disabled. Loss, agony, misery, loneliness, not being able to do what other people do, having to watch (in pain) from the sidelines. Having to define ten pathetic steps as a "long walk" with crutches or a walker and sweating from the pain. NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THAT WAY.

    Why have I shared all that? Because it's relevant to the issue of handicapped parking spaces and other accomodations for "handicapped" people that are often used by people who don't need them because it's "fun" or worse, they're making fun of those who do need them.

    The little bits of independence that we have.. the carts at the stores that make shopping possible (although one has to put up with the stares. LOOK ELSEWHERE, people.. it's my leg, not my brain that is impaired) although often uncomfortable... it's hard to reach things and people either avert their glance as though you were a freak, or are overly solicitous as though you were mentally "not quite there." Ugh. Compassion is cool, sympathy, pity, condescension are not. There IS a difference.

    And that brings us full circle and back to handicapped parking spots. Something that lets us get out as close to the store or place we need to be as possible. Do you have any idea how important that sort of thing IS to someone for whom every step is agony, screaming, sweating, heart-rending agony? Yeah, well, THAT'S why we get angry when someone parks in a spot that is intended for someone who needs it.

    What happened to your friend was vastly different from the leaving of a note on a car parked in a handicapped space without any identification. I understand that you feel angry, but you can't lash out where it's inappropriate to do so. The note left on the person's car was either funny (if the person really had the right to use the spot) or a warning couched in amusing language, an appeal to one's conscience if the person didn't have the right to use it. Either way, it was okay and it didn't hurt anyone and might just have gotten something done.


    Nothing says "no nookie" like a house on wheels!
    [ Parent ]

    I did "read with comprehension" (none / 0) (#384)
    by wurp on Thu Sep 05, 2002 at 10:55:48 AM EST

    Wow, that's a lot of venom over an anecdote! I understood perfectly well that your husband's target had no handicap tags. In fact, though, that matters little. Often, people with new handicaps or in the car of a friend don't have their tag with them, as you noted.

    I didn't find your husband's note that humorous, but I agree with you that it probably did more good than harm. My intent was not to rebuke your husband, but to make a general comment about vengeance. In fact, what I'm recommending against is responding in anger, which is exactly what I believe you did in response to my post.

    And as a side note, I'm not angry at all. The comment to my friend didn't really hurt him, and the fellow who made the comment was corrected. And your husband's comment certainly didn't hurt me.

    All I was trying to do is give an example of why I believe that vengeance is stupid unless you know the situation exactly, which is almost never the case. I believe the example stands. I apologize that it was interpreted as a rebuke; I can easily see how it would be taken as such. Look at it from my point of view, though... this is an important story in my life, your husband's comment brought it to mind, so I posted it. That's why I posted it in response to your husband's post, not in anger, or out of bitterness, or as a rebuke, or to cause you or your husband emotional pain. I was just sharing a story I thought was important. And I still think the main point is "avenge with care". In fact, I would tend to say "don't avenge". I don't consider what your husband did to be vengeance.

    Just to make it extra clear, I want to apologize again for not making it clear that the "hotheaded vengeful response" I was speaking out against was not directed at your husband's note.

    Can you tell me what part of my post was "lashing out"?
    Buy my stuff
    [ Parent ]

    I can't think of any great person... (3.20 / 5) (#187)
    by Tezcatlipoca on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:23:02 PM EST

    .... that advocated revenge.
    "Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

    William Shakespeare (nt) (none / 0) (#260)
    by Margaret Thatcher on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 04:32:24 PM EST

    [ Parent ]
    Er .... (none / 0) (#309)
    by Tezcatlipoca on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 08:00:51 PM EST

    Writing about it is not necessary advocating for it.
    "Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

    [ Parent ]
    So? (2.00 / 1) (#314)
    by dipierro on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 09:58:31 PM EST

    Are you suggesting that Shakespeare didn't advocate revenge?

    [ Parent ]
    Did? Didn't? (none / 0) (#344)
    by Happy Monkey on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 03:44:57 PM EST

    Revenge turned out well and poorly in various plays of his. Were there any quotes of his (that weren't in his fiction) on the subject?
    Length 17, Width 3
    [ Parent ]
    Why do *I* need quotes? (none / 0) (#377)
    by dipierro on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:05:13 PM EST

    I'm not the one suggesting that great people don't advocate revenge.

    [ Parent ]
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt (nt) (none / 0) (#293)
    by pyramid termite on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 08:35:40 AM EST

    "I forget, in a certain way, everything I write, doubtless also, in another way, what I read." - Jacques Derrida
    [ Parent ]
    Elaborate please. (none / 0) (#310)
    by Tezcatlipoca on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 08:01:30 PM EST

    "Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

    [ Parent ]
    Here's one example... (none / 0) (#315)
    by dipierro on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 10:30:32 PM EST

    In the June of 1942, a German submarine landed eight German terrorists, who had volunteered for the job of creating maximum damage to the United States and the war effort.
    The death penalty, in a unanimous verdict, was imposed on six of the terrorists while two were given prison terms because they had cooperated with the United States. President Roosevelt approved the sentences, and on August 7 the six were executed in the electric chair.

    [ Parent ]
    Ummhh.. No (none / 0) (#321)
    by Tezcatlipoca on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 12:20:36 PM EST

    That is not vengeance neither was FDR advocating for it. I guess the laws of the time clearly allowed for such posibilities, thus the US President just had to respect the law of the time (you talk about an unanimous veredict after all).
    "Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

    [ Parent ]
    It's not vengeance? (none / 0) (#323)
    by dipierro on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 01:11:18 PM EST

    It certainly wasn't self-defense.  It was retaliation.  You plot to kill us, we kill you, as punishment.

    FDR could have granted clemency, but he didn't.  In fact, he "approved the sentences".  Also, I left it out in my quote, I guess, but this was a military tribunal, and FDR as commander-in-chief had full control over the prosecution.

    [ Parent ]

    Jehova, aka God. (none / 0) (#302)
    by Xanthipe on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:39:48 PM EST


    The best answer I can give to the question of whether I am alive or dead is "Yes"...

    [ Parent ]
    It is not a person.... (none / 0) (#308)
    by Tezcatlipoca on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 08:00:05 PM EST

    "Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

    [ Parent ]
    Karma rules!!! (like a dictator) (2.00 / 3) (#190)
    by xee on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 08:28:27 PM EST

    Karma has worked excellently for me. I try to live a good life (that is, of course, by my own definition) and i always seem to find myself in good situations (also, of course, by my own definition). It's been working great for about two years now... ever since i stopped trying to cheat life.

    Also, karma seems to work both ways. When i "get back at" someone, I just justify it as their karma coming back at them through me. I'm just the messenger.

    Proud to be a member.
    Pussy (none / 0) (#368)
    by benzapp on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 12:02:53 PM EST

    Karma is a doctrine of and for slaves.  Thus, when I whip your ass into submission, know that I will be laughing all the way to the bank knowing how happy you are submitting to your fate like the pansy bitch you are.  

    Thank you for making the world go round by adopting slave morality as your life's purpose.  

    [ Parent ]

    Fishing Story (3.71 / 7) (#196)
    by mortisimo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:20:15 PM EST

    I worked as a deckhand on a crab boat in Alaska for a few years and got a tale our two of revenge out of the experience.

    Here's my favorite, let's call it:
    The Cook, The Toothbrush and The Disposable Camera.

    The boat I was on was a fisher/processor. We caught the crab and then processed it at sea so that we could spend more time on the fishing grounds without having to run back to town when the fishing went to 'scratch'. We might be out for two months or more at a time without a break and in situations like that little things can really get to you.

    There was a core crew of eight: Five deckhands, one mate, one engineer and one captain. The rest of the crew were processors and mainly composed of migrant workers and college-aged kids whom, for whatever reason, weren't doing the college thing. The core crew worked 18-hour shifts seven days a week and it was extremely brutal and dangerous work. The processors worked 16. The cook worked 12.

    Why did the cook work only twelve hours a day? Because it was a tradition and there was a good reason behind it. When you're working 18 hours a day and your slave driving captain only allows twenty-minutes for a meal, including the time it takes to get in and out of your gear, you want that meal to fucking shine.

    You don't want your cook strung-out from overwork. You wanted to give him plenty of time to rest and cook you up some delicious goodness.

    You want the serving ladle to dollop little mounds of heaven from the steam table.

    You want transcendence to steam off your plate and bring tears to your eyes.

    You want service with a smile.

    And sometimes you want to eat when it's convenient to the crew.

    And on this particular trip what did we get? A lazy, bad cook who threw a hissy fit if asked to prepare a meal early or refused to reheat a meal if we were late coming off the deck. The guy couldn't fry an egg. He didn't know what spices were. He was belligerent. He was anal-retentive. He was a nightmare. We got a total fucking asshole.

    My shift was to wake at one p.m. and go to bed at seven a.m. Now remember I have been working 18 a day/seven a week for over a month and a half straight, scratching out the last of the season, when this happens.

    It's 6 a.m. and we have run through our gear. We have a 20-mile 'run' to the other end of our gear before we start fishing again. Woo-hoo! I'm off an hour early and the guy that replaces gets to sleep an hour late! This is a major boon. So I come off the deck and the cook is up preparing for breakfast at 7 a.m. In the steam table is huge mound of mouth-watering bacon! I grab a couple slices of bread and head for the steam table hoping to get a quick snack before bed. In fact, I was planning on eating in my rack as I drifted to sleep. So I step up grab the tongs and... THWACKK! The fucking cook raps my hand with a cooking spoon and tells me no one eats till seven.

    "Yeah, bullshit." I say.

    He removes the tray of bacon from the steam table and takes it back into the pantry.

    I'm dumbfounded. But at this point I'm still nice.

    "Mike, come on, I got off early and I just want some bacon."

    "There's cereal and toast and peanut butter and jelly for that." He says.

    "But the deckhands pay $18.00 dollars a day for three meals. I've only had two. I want my $6.00 dollars worth of bacon." And this was true. The core crew pays a daily rate for food and a percentage of the fuel bill for each trip.

    He still refuses.

    I ignore him and head back into the pantry for the six-dollars worth of bacon I goddamned paid for.

    He comes after me and tackles me and throws what can only be described as the largest, most shrieking, hissy fit I have ever seen. The guy is coming unglued, but I still want my bacon.

    He hits me with two punches. Punches! Over bacon! Bacon I paid for no less!

    But I didn't throw a punch back. I was furious but I didn't see the point. He kept throwing punches, and not that they didn't bother the hell out of me, but he was throwing wild, didn't have the reach to hit my head and wasn't that strong. I grabbed a handful of bacon, about ten slices, and ran back out into the galley.

    I got some new bread, called the guy a fucking asshole and went up to my room to make my sandwich.

    The cook has an assistant, we call him the galley bitch, and he rooms with the cook in a two-man stateroom. The assistant was on almost the same schedule as I was and was heading for the shower.

    An Idea popped into my head.

    I stopped the assistant, his name was Tommy and we called him Tommy-Gun for shits and giggles. He was a good guy and hated the cook more than anybody. He had to work and live with the asshole all day long.

    I asked him to do me a favor and headed to his stateroom. Inside I asked him where the cook kept his disposable cameras. Everyone brought at least one and it was a long-running prank aboard the ship to sneak someone's disposable and take a picture of someone mooning the camera or the dick on the face when you're sleeping thing. But I had something better in mind.

    I dropped my drawers, grabbed the cook's toothbrush and rammed it up my ass. I made sure to twist and turn it around real good. I made sure Tommy got a picture of it, on the cook's camera, actually going into my rectum. I took it out, got another shot of it for the camera (Yes, there was butt-stuff on it), cleaned it off a little, but not too much, and placed it back in its holder.

    Then I went to my room and made my bacon sandwich, thinking about that guy unsuspectingly brushing his teeth for the next few months with a toothbrush that had been up my asshole, kinda lost my appetite, started to drift to sleep and wished to God above I could be there the day, a few months from then, when the cook got his pictures back from one-hour photo or wherever and saw what developed.

    nice try (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by calimehtar on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:15:45 PM EST

    Well-told, etc, but the fact is, this is already an urban legend. In the off-chance you actually did what you say, you could at least give credit for the idea.

    [ Parent ]
    Well call me a living legend then... (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by mortisimo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:32:35 PM EST

    The story is true and I had no idea there was an urban legend concerning similar events.

    But why a link to racial rumors? I don't see the connection. It would suck to find out my best revenge story was a weak knock-off.

    [ Parent ]

    Found it (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by mortisimo on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:46:30 PM EST


    I guess there really is nothing new under the sun. My story took place on the F/V Bountiful owned by Trident Seafoods in 1994. It actually wasn't the worst thing committed to camera surreptiously during my time up there, but I'm not going to get into that. Kinda sucks, I was pretty proud of myself for that one.

    I obviously have nothing to prove my story is true or that I didn't get the idea from some urban legend, so think what you will. I won't protest.

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds legit (none / 0) (#243)
    by sticky on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:54:09 PM EST

    Just by the way that you defended yourself. My hat is off to you for your disgusting, repulsive actions.

    Don't eat the shrimp.---God
    [ Parent ]
    Fit me for a halo (4.00 / 3) (#202)
    by Tatarigami on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:56:45 PM EST

    Someone mentioned earlier that living well is the best revenge. I don't agree -- but I'm forced to grudgingly admit that it's been true in my case.

    Long story short: I was working as the DB admin in a small family-owned company, and as each of his kids graduated, the owner began employing them as completely unnecessary managers. Since the office staff consisted of me and a part-time receptionist, I received the 'benefit' of their guidance and things quickly became intolerable.

    At the time I quit I was so angry I was tempted to wreak a terrible revenge on them all -- and I had plenty of opportunity, knowing full well that there wasn't a single paid-for piece of software in that office, and that there was a massive crack-down on software piracy beginning in the region, after some 'encouragement' from Microsoft to local authorities.

    The fine would have run into six figures, and probably bankrupted the company. But... there were thirty other employees in that office. Some of them in their fifties or sixties, some of them with police records or considered 'unemployable' by organisations with less open-minded hiring policies.

    In the end I did nothing -- but several years later when I ran into one of those managers again, we chatted for a bit and I was gratified to learn that I was now earning more than him. It would have been more satisfying if he'd been a little less gracious about it, but hell -- the best job offer the poor slob is ever going to get was from his own father. How can I make it any worse?

    An Eye for an Eye... (2.00 / 4) (#204)
    by localroger on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 09:59:10 PM EST

    ...makes the whole world blind.

    Hey, someone had to say it.

    I can haz blog!

    On the other hand (1.00 / 1) (#224)
    by epepke on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:46:03 AM EST

    An ear for an ear makes the whole world look like Van Gogh.

    The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett

    [ Parent ]
    Less "Revenge" and more a prank (4.50 / 6) (#205)
    by Denor on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 10:12:27 PM EST

    I've always been the kind of person who appreciates a good prank and loved hearing the tales of the MIT-style hacks, but could never really think up anything original myself. But once, I came up with something good, and on the spur of the moment, too:

    It's Haloween and I'm in High School. I bring in a fake plastic knife. This thing is quite obviously fake - the 'blade' is a good centimeter or so thick and it'll only fool you if you don't get a good look at it. It's the sort that folds in if you stab anything with it, so I spent most of the day pretending to stab myself in the gut :)

    Now I had this friend who was a little overblown in the way he'd do everything. So it wasn't any surprise that, when playing at roughhousing, he accidentally hit me in the nose hard enough to make it bleed. It was an accident, and I wasn't especially mad at him, but he spent the entire rest of the day apologizing like mad.

    And then, of course, the opportunity. As I was taking my items out of my locker at the end of the day, I saw the fake plastic knife sitting there. And my friend - still apologizing - hadn't.

    So, of course, I took the fake knife and stabbed him in the chest with it.

    It folded in, just like it was supposed to, but I'd done it so quickly that all my friend had seen was a glint of light (the 'blade' was shiny) and a knife hilt. He was, of course, completely unhurt, but the look on his face before he realized this - convinced I'd snapped and taken revenge - was priceless :)

    He called it even after that :)


    Will never happen again, unfortunately (none / 0) (#236)
    by bgarcia on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 08:39:49 AM EST

    As paranoid as school administrators are, I bet a kid would get expelled for pulling a prank like that nowadays. How long ago was this?

    [ Parent ]
    It's worse than that... (none / 0) (#349)
    by Dephex Twin on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 05:03:34 PM EST

    You'd probably get expelled just for having the fake knife, whether you pretended to stab someone or not.

    Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. -- Homer Simpson
    [ Parent ]
    Use extreme caution. (4.42 / 7) (#214)
    by kitten on Fri Aug 30, 2002 at 11:08:28 PM EST

    Ladies and gentlemen:
    The stories you are about to read are true. The names have been changed to.. eh, fuck it.

    In my junior year, I dated a girl who had previously dated the son of a certain Congressman in the area. I'm not naming names for obvious reasons, but I will say that he was the Congressman for a neighboring district, not my district.

    The kid - we'll call him John, though this is not his name - was a complete and total dick, no matter what you think of his father (who is also a complete and total dick - but I digress). He constantly hounded her, and on occasion me, as some sort of idiotic jealousy thing at first, and then as cheesy revenge.

    One day he posted a number of little flyers around the school favoring a very unflattering shot of the girl. Naturally I was incensed, and that evening when I was at home, I figured out my plan.

    I fired up my mighty 486 Acer computer and printed out 25 flyers. The flyers read:
    Anyone, everyone invited!
    I gave his address, a simple drawing of a map to his house, and instructions to "Come anytime after 11pm" for the next day (Friday).

    I posted these everywhere I could think of, all over the place. Anywhere high schoolers would hang out. Coffee shops, bulletin boards, the ever-present Waffle Houses that dot the landscape around here, so on and so forth.

    I rolled up to his house around midnight. There were several cars in his driveway and more on the street, blaring rap music. People were pounding on his door; others were having a great time drinking little cans of beer they had in their car. I left, but I imagine this scene went on all night - drunken idiots causing problems and demanding to know where the party was.

    (I suppose that the cops would be called eventually, though I didn't stick around to find out. But even if the cops made everyone leave, more would come later - that's the beauty of it.)

    Now, this next one is a story by my friend Tom, and I have no way of verifying it other than his say-so, but having known this man for eight years, I suspect it is true. Either way, it's worth repeating.

    There was a certain man with whom Tom had a severe disagreement with. And the Vice President - Al Gore at the time - was scheduled to come to Atlanta (where I live) in the next week. These two facts seem unrelated - but wait!

    Tom recruited the help of a friend of ours, a damned cute woman. He drew a rough map on a pad of paper, had her put on gloves, and go hang around the target's place of employment.

    When the guy came out, she approached him, looking confused, and saying something to the effect of "Excuse me, can you help me? I'm from out of town, I'm trying to find this place.." and handed him the pad of paper. He took it, looked over it, gave her directions, and gave the pad back to her. She thanked him and left.

    She then gave the pad to Tom, who took it to the library and used one of their typewriters. He tore the bottom sheet of paper from the pad - which now had this man's fingerprints all over it, and nobody else's - and typed a calm, measured, educated explanation of how he was going to shoot the vice president during his stay in town next week. He then mailed it to the appropriate place (I suppose this would be the White House?).

    Needless to say, the Secret Service does not appreciate this sort of thing, especially when the guy's fingerprints are all over the paper and the letter seems to come from someone who knows what they're talking about. He was apparently rousted from work in the middle of the day, hauled off, interrogated, had to hire a lawyer and suffer a fair amount of legal hassle before the charges were finally dropped.

    I've got plenty of stories of my own, but really, I can't top that.
    mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
    I have to raise the BS flag (4.00 / 1) (#238)
    by Scratch o matic on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 11:10:23 AM EST

    How did the Secret Service tie the fingerprints to the man in question? Did he have a record of some sort? Why were his fingerprints on file? The story doesn't seem even remotely believable, especially since your friend, in the course of getting "revenge," claims to have comitted a major felony punishable by years in prison. Think about that: he didn't make it appear as if his 'target' had comitted a felony...HE (your friend) actually COMMITTED the felony. Or that's what he claims, anyway. By the way, if this story is true, which I doubt, you have provided the link to close the case. Such an event would be easily recognizable to anyone who had investigated it, and it would be a simple matter to pay you a visit to get the rest of the information they need to prosecute the case.

    [ Parent ]
    late 80's fingerprinting (5.00 / 3) (#239)
    by tuj on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 11:18:53 AM EST

    In the late 80's nearly every kid in elementry school (at least where I'm from) was fingerprinted for fear that the prints would help locate the child if he/she was abducted.  Mysteriously, these same prints are now in the FBI's database, right next to the records of convicted felons.

    I have no idea how long this went on for, but I wouldn't be surprised if its still done today.

    [ Parent ]

    Possibly. (1.00 / 2) (#257)
    by kitten on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:57:17 PM EST

    As I said, I have no way of verifying this story, but I also have no particular reason to suspect my friend just made it up. Could go either way.

    However, around here, to get a driver's license, you have to get your fingerprint taken. It's then encoded into a pretty little computer-generated pattern on the back of the license.

    Did he have a record of some sort? Why were his fingerprints on file?

    I don't know. Though I wouldn't be at all shocked to discover that this target had been picked up at one time or another.

    even remotely believable, especially since your friend, in the course of getting "revenge," claims to have comitted a major felony punishable by years in prison. Think about that: he didn't make it appear as if his 'target' had comitted a felony...HE (your friend) actually COMMITTED the felony.

    Uh. He DID make it appear as though the target committed the felony. That's the whole point, yes? My friend wore gloves and used a rented typewriter. The only evidence the authorities would be able to find would be the fingerprints of the target, not my friend.

    Such an event would be easily recognizable to anyone who had investigated it, and it would be a simple matter to pay you a visit to get the rest of the information they need to prosecute the case.

    The case is closed. (Assuming any of this is true.) As I said the guy had to get a lawyer and go through a bit of legal hassle before the charges were eventually dropped. There is no 'case' anymore.

    Furthermore it's not like I gave anything away. (Again, assuming this story is true.) All anyone can glean from this is that some point in the vague past, a death threat was mailed from this city. That probably happens all the time, and the SS probably has dozens of cases where they went to investigate. I don't really see anything that stands out about this one.
    mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
    [ Parent ]
    Don't think so (none / 0) (#295)
    by Scratch o matic on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 10:15:08 AM EST

    Uh. He DID make it appear as though the target committed the felony. That's the whole point, yes?

    But MY point is that your friend actually COMMITTED A MAJOR FELONY in order to perpetrate this revenge. Your friend actually mailed a death threat to the vice president. I find that unlikely, but then again you know him better than I. But it just doesn't seem plausible to me.

    The case is closed.

    Not if someone who deals in these things were to read your post. They would still be interested in finding the true guilty party.

    Furthermore it's not like I gave anything away.

    I think you've provided plenty enough detail to identify the case (target of the threat, city where he was visiting, nature of the threat, 'typed on a note pad', 'identified by finger prints', 'suspect said he didn't do it and the charges were dropped.') Unless you are willing to go to jail to protect the identity of your friend, I'd say the case is easily solved. But I also suspect there is no such case.

    Anyway, we've each said our piece. Thanks for the story.

    [ Parent ]
    The problem with revenge... (3.50 / 4) (#219)
    by talorin on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:37:06 AM EST

    ...is that people are infantile and selfish, and upon recieving the slightest wrong will plan (and sometimes execute) a revenge completely and totally inconsistent with whatever slight they were done. As demonstrated in a few of these stories. Before you decide that the guy who cut you off in traffic deserves to be hunted down and his family killed, step back and think about it.

    anger (3.00 / 4) (#226)
    by blisspix on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:12:39 AM EST

    I think that one's likelihood of actionable revenge is strongly linked to one's handling of anger.

    When I was a teenager, I got mighty mad at people. I'd yell, scream, throw rocks at people, etc. I guess that's as far as I ever went, although on many occasions i dreamt up revenge plans that now, are just shocking.

    Now I'm a little older (23), I never really get angry at things any more, and I also never really want to get revenge on anybody.

    Is it some kind of belief in karma? Is it related to a concept of 'maturity?' Is it a lack of anything that really wants to make me hurt someone?

    Anger (none / 0) (#339)
    by andreiko on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 01:52:31 PM EST

    Being angry is perfectly OK.
    How you release your anger, however, makes a huge difference.

    One of the differences between a child and adult is the handling of the basic feelings: anger, pain, fear, grief and love.

    A child would lose control and surrender to an emotion, let itself be overwhelmed.

    An adult may be in full rage, but *contain* the rage and not hit/break a person or an object.

    Our society does not support anger and often pushes us into suppressing it. Suppressing anger may lead  to "losing control" -- see the child case above.

    It takes discipline and integrity to deal with overwhelming emotions -- it's much better to say "I cant talk to you right now" and leave than stay and... have things happen.

    It's cool you're not throwing rocks anymore. We live on a thin glass :)

    -- Andre

    [ Parent ]

    Sucess is the best revenge! (3.00 / 2) (#241)
    by cable on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:02:31 PM EST

    Go ahead, do what you can to get sucessfull, then rub it in the face of that loser that did you wrong.

    Odd Todd is great, he should use his imaginary friend as a reference for the next job. He could also help him take that personality test that the "Dick Manager" gave him and maybe he can pass it this time?

    Only you, can help prevent Neb Rage!

    Heh. (5.00 / 1) (#291)
    by gromm on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 06:48:03 AM EST

    You know, I've always fantasized about visiting one of the pricks that gave me the hardest time in High School (whose name will not be mentioned... not to protect the innocent but because it was an alias anyway) in whatever government institution he might be in and spend a little time laughing at him. Dress up for the occasion. Have a good time. Let the fuck know that he belongs in a cage, always has, always will.

    Yes, I think that this would be excellent revenge.
    Deus ex frigerifero
    [ Parent ]

    That happened to the bullies that picked on me (5.00 / 1) (#328)
    by cable on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 05:50:03 PM EST

    except that a few of them could not be rehabilitated, so they made them Police Officers instead. I guess someone had watched "A Clockwork Orange"?

    Only you, can help prevent Neb Rage!
    [ Parent ]
    Bullies that picked on me (5.00 / 1) (#332)
    by Orion Blastar on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 10:02:24 PM EST

    I dunno, they never found the bodies, and I'll never tell them where the bodies are hidden! :)
    *** Anonymized by intolerant editors at K5 and also IWETHEY who are biased against the mentally ill ***
    [ Parent ]
    Manson.... (2.33 / 3) (#242)
    by Scrop on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 12:08:11 PM EST

    Hook us up with a HOWTO ;)

    revenge is just energy used unwisely (2.80 / 5) (#246)
    by RogueX on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 01:25:05 PM EST

    I speak from experience. There was a time in my life when I tried to hurt everyone that had hurt me, and it caused a great deal of pain and anguish for a lot of people, including ones that were not even a part of what I was trying to do, but were there in the crossfire.

    Revenge is something you should really think about and look at what it costs you as a person, not just the people you are seeking revenge upon. It can cost you very much personally. For me, it almost cost me my life and it took several years to come back from that, wanting to live and wanting to put myself back out there with other people.

    I am not going to say it wasn't worth the lesson I learned or that I didn't become a more compassionate because of it, but I wish that I had gotten the lesson another way, perhaps in a less painful manner. Still, it made me aware of how useless revenge really is. It perpetuates more anger and more sad events instead of setting things to right. Real life is not Hollywood, so I suggest learning to let things go and be happy with yourself and let 'Karma' take care of it. It does you know.

    Highly ridiculous but... (3.80 / 5) (#249)
    by Tau on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:04:32 PM EST

    I once read an entire chapter of stuff about revenge in some sort of anarchist FAQ ages ago, though one particularly funny plan stuck in my head. I can't imagine how anyone would be able to pull it off, but here's the gist: whilst your target is away on holiday for a while, find his car, then totally disassemble it. Now break into his house and reassemble it in his living room. Contrived yes but I'd piss myself laughing if someone actually managed to pull that off :)

    well ... (4.00 / 1) (#251)
    by ejf on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 02:14:04 PM EST

    This has actually been done at our school in the 1970ish timeframe. For the annual prank the seniors give, they disassembled a VW Ente (relatively small car), got the keys to the teacher's lounge, and reassembled it there -- unseen, no less.

    Caused quite a fuss. :)

    --- men are reasoning, not reasonable animals.
    [ Parent ]
    Something Similar at my school.. (5.00 / 1) (#318)
    by DissentionKS on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 01:42:12 AM EST

    My junior year a bunch of senior and junior guys took apart and reassembled the school lawnmower tractor (full sized tractor modified, not a small riding mower) on the roof of our school.

    [ Parent ]
    Better (none / 0) (#274)
    by Korimyr the Rat on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 08:27:15 PM EST

     Is to get in while they're on vacation and re-arrange all the furniture. Don't break stuff or leave a mess-- just move the furniture like most people do everyonce in a while, and try to leave no other signs of your passing.

     Gaslight is to revenge what duelling is to violence-- sophisticated and subtle.

    "Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein
    Founding Member of 'Retarded Monkeys Against the Restriction of Weapons Privileges'
    [ Parent ]

    Just remembered. (2.50 / 4) (#253)
    by mindstrm on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:02:24 PM EST

    Superglue is your friend.

    Find the guy's house, and glue his doors and windows shut.

    The desire for revenge (2.00 / 5) (#258)
    by medham on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 03:58:21 PM EST

    Shows that you are not as evolved, spiritually, as you might be. Priests are the harborers of ressentiment, as Ranke told us, and this comes from the effects of semen being reabsorbed into the bloodstream. Now, what's your problem?

    The real 'medham' has userid 6831.

    I'm weird then (4.66 / 3) (#259)
    by dipierro on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 04:23:09 PM EST

    Whether you've been cut off in traffic, or have been laid off with no prospects, or had a significant other cheat on you, had a parking space taken, or if you've been swindled, you've probably wanted revenge.

    Let's see... I've had all these things happen, and no, I've never wanted revenge for them. Oh well, I guess I'm weird.

    It's so weird too... (1.25 / 4) (#263)
    by rustybot on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:01:08 PM EST

    Man, i'm not so bad. I'll try to make it possible for you to keep saying, over and over that lamp!" would sound weird to the cooler heads at icann, and hope they never wanted revenge for them. Cough, cough.

    [ Parent ]
    Is this machine generated text? (none / 0) (#266)
    by blixco on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:16:34 PM EST

    And thus, the username makes sense. Pretty impressive.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]
    Not weird. (none / 0) (#265)
    by blixco on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 05:15:17 PM EST

    Very normal. The folks who are responding in this thread and overwhelmingly anti-revenge. You'd be in the "normal" catagory.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]
    Considering our nation's criminal system (none / 0) (#298)
    by dipierro on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 11:33:36 AM EST

    I highly doubt that we anti-revenge people are in the majority, though.

    [ Parent ]
    True. (none / 0) (#300)
    by blixco on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:33:05 PM EST

    But here on this board, there's a lot of folks who are either very passive, or very image-conscious.

    Passive in the "pacifist" sense.

    Since the USian criminal justice system is built on the foundation of revenge (and eye for an eye), then we don't have too much choice. Other than violent revolution.
    The root of the problem has been isolated.
    [ Parent ]

    Revenge is a Moral Imperative (4.00 / 6) (#269)
    by Peahippo on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 06:07:27 PM EST

    The movie "Real Genius" contains an unforgettable quote: "Revenge is a moral imperative". Revenge won't right the wrong, but it is a moral imperative to carry out the implied promise of reprisal to wrongdoing.

    When people knuckle under to all kinds of acts (especially the passive aggressive kind), then assaults get out of control, and the result is the modern hell as represented by America. A guy can slash your tires, but when you take the baseball bat to him, it's YOU the cops will be coming after. (Real incident.)

    It is this immediate peril to the wronged person that has given rise to the sentiments "revenge is a dish best served cold" and "revenge at a distance may not be satisfying, but it's safe". Not only do you get safety from the dissociation over time of yourself from your tormentor, but letting time pass lets you know that you are really annoyed instead of just being momentarily irked.

    Myself, I feel that the legal system in America needs a good dose of dueling. If you really are ticked at someone, and want to show them how morally wrong it was for them to do whatever they did to you, then facing them with a sword or pistol at 10 paces is the real measure of character and resolve. If we had dueling in America, people would be a lot more polite, and the courts wouldn't be clogged with bullshit charges laid by monied cowards hiding behind laws, lawyers, bailiffs and judges. (By the same token, we should forgo imprisonment for public flogging and stockades, but I digress.)

    If a man rapes a woman, he should live in fear of her brothers. This is the only way to weave a sensible cultural fabric from the threads of justice, and it requires REVENGE.

    Revenge is as well-developed a moral metric as any religious mandate, and we all know that wrongdoing is (outside the obfuscation necessary to the slimeball world that lawyers inhabit). We all know about moral grounding as we were growing up, even those who'd been essentially abandoned by parents. Even the non-religious have a good grounding of moral bases, those being the Golden Rule, Private Property, Individual Sovereignty, Self Defense, and so on.

    So *where* do you stand on this "duelling&quo (3.00 / 2) (#297)
    by JanusAurelius on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 11:33:26 AM EST

    Do you seriously think that having a fight with a guy if he wrongs you is a good way to solve society's problems? You had to deal with schoolyard bullies when you were a kid right? Wasn't it that the problem with "duelling" is because the bullies invariably win? In ANY trial of grievance, "justice" is not determined by who is morally right, but who is stronger, tougher and meaner.

    If I accessed your view incorrectly, then I apologize. I understand there once *was* another kind of duel. Alexander Hamilton was killed in one of those, by some complete crackhead whose name I can't remember. Problem with *this* sort of duelling is that it only works when both parties have some sense of honor and reality. =P

    [ Parent ]
    Re: So *where* do you stand [...] (5.00 / 1) (#299)
    by Peahippo on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:02:03 PM EST

    The "ties that bind" society together are being broken with impressive speed in America. I propose duelling as a problem solver.

    I daresay that your rejection of duelling is part of a common misconception amongst the Digerati that American (and Western-as-a-whole) society is a pinnacle of Human social evolution. This means that things like gardening, duelling, hunting, the Paleolithic diet (types of foods; how and when they are eaten), repairing your own furniture/home/car/appliances/tools, and at some length ETC. ... have all been judged as wanting, or obsolete to the Human condition. What a gross misunderstanding of the Human animal! You might as well state that people don't need sex anymore.

    Duelling isn't bullying; it is just personal involvement in justice. If you are opposed to bullying, then please tell us all about the utterly fair (note sarcasm) process of justice that happens in the American courts today.

    While you think through your reply, let me expound myself on the system. Money wins, and within the last generation, the ranks of the imprisoned have about tripled. There were almost 7 million people imprisoned in America in 2000, and drug charges characterize too many of them. By any rational measure, millions of people have been bullied by an elitist and prosecutorial engine run by the apathy and cowardice of the public, as well as the wealth of the people not imprisoned. As the Cold War "ended" (there's an entire other discussion buried in that assumption), it was noted that in Eastern Europe the population was broken into thirds. 1/3 was latent while another third was spying and informing on the remaining third; and these sectors shifted over time.

    Well, what I'm trying to say (poorly so far) is that with enough fear and loathing (currently characteristic of American culture) the bullying becomes a system operation and with the withdraw of personal involvement it just destroys society. Duelling is one of my proposals to reconnect personal involvement. Being your own lawyer is another. Have you any suggestions?

    [ Parent ]
    Nonsense! I demand satisfaction. *WHAP* (n/t) (4.00 / 1) (#350)
    by Dephex Twin on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 05:16:35 PM EST

    Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. -- Homer Simpson
    [ Parent ]
    on the subject of brothers.. (4.00 / 1) (#361)
    by obyteme on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 06:52:48 AM EST

    I hate posting something I don't remember that well, but this was too good.

    Saw a show about this family of 5 brothers. One of the brothers (we will call him Bill)had a drinking problem. Bill was married and had some kids. During a family get together Bills' wife showed up with a bruise from where he had hit her while drunk. The Father of the brothers found out and informed the other 4 brothers of what had happened and that they needed to take care of this

    The next day the 4 brothers showed up at Bills house. When Bill answered the door his brothers grabbed him and drug him outside where they beat the living snot out of him. Upon ending the beating they informed Bill that if they ever hear about him drinking or abusing his wife again they would go through this again. Needless to say, Bill has become a model husband.

    And remember kids, Violence does not solve anything.

    But damn it sure does make you feel better.

    To err is human, or I could be wrong.
    If you can't poke fun at it, get a sharper wit.

    [ Parent ]
    harmless revenge (4.75 / 4) (#270)
    by servant on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 06:10:49 PM EST

    I like the little things that don't inflict that much harm.  I had a boss that I didn't get along with.  I was always the last person to leave so each day I would take someone's stapler and put it on his desk.  Seems like no big deal but each and every day someone would get so pissed at Mel for taking their stapler.  Another little one was I left a trail of granola from his desk to the office supply closet.  That one just confused him.  My favorite was I took apart his swivel desk chair and filled the stem of it with a half pound of raw shrimp.  No one could figure out why his chair smelled so awful.  I had my revenge when I was walking into work and saw the janitor throwing his chair in the garbage.  No one was hurt and the most I cost the company was $40 for a new chair.

    Oh, and for a good one if someone has really pissed you off, live crickets at your local bait shop are very inexpensive and people tend to leave their car doors unlocked more than they should.  I have only done this once and it was to a good friend that knew he had it coming.  I stood there and laughed at him for hours as I watched him try to vaccuum out 500 live crickets.  The revenge kept coming when we would be driving down the road a week later and hear a "chirp".

    Most newspapers offer free classified ads.  Just call in and advertise a 2001 Mercedes convertable.  5000 miles.  Must go.  $10,000.  Call only after midnight.  Leave the mark's name and phone number.  Nothing too bad but it will cause a few days of headache for someone.

    Be careful who you do bad things to.  Some people's idea of revenge is just beating you senseless with a stick of stove wood.

    On the topic of baitshops... (5.00 / 1) (#280)
    by Andy P on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 01:32:24 AM EST

    Leeches can be used for many entertaining purposes.  Use your imagination.

    You can get crickets from petstores too, get the little guys, they're harder to catch, live longer and it'll take them awile to start chirping so you have a delayed response.  Put some sliced vergitables and soaking wet paper towels under couches for them to eat/drink.

    And on the car ad thing, choose a car that is stereotypicly used by his sex (ie: 1 ton flatbed truck for a guy) and put his girlfriend/wifes name down so that he keeps getting calls for her from men in the middle of the night.  Mass confusion and accusations follow.  

    If he lives alone another good idea is to put a ad in the personals that reads:
    "Attractive young stripper looking for older man to have fun with, and practice my trade (freebies).  Call after 1am because I'm working, and if my boyfriend picks up don't say anything and hang up, call again later"

    Just watch as he gets dozens of calls from old pervs who always hang up.

    [ Parent ]

    Wanna see the ultimate results of revenge? (4.62 / 8) (#271)
    by kcbrown on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 06:59:56 PM EST

    Then take a look at Israel and Palestine. I don't think a better example of the spiral of retribution can be found in the modern world today.

    Thank you. (5.00 / 4) (#276)
    by evilpenguin on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:08:35 AM EST

    As we all know, every story on K5 must contain at least one reference to Israel and/or Palestine.  Thank you.  The quota is now filled.
    # nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
    [ Parent ]
    A modest proposal: "Niwdog's Law" (5.00 / 3) (#278)
    by John Miles on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 01:23:53 AM EST

    The first Israel-vs-Palestine comparison or analogy ends the thread.

    For so long as men do as they are told, there will be war.
    [ Parent ]
    no, it shouldn't (none / 0) (#370)
    by ph0rk on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 12:37:40 PM EST

    As things like that would just end up making the conflict "something we don't talk about".

    And that ain't good.
    [ f o r k . s c h i z o i d . c o m ]
    [ Parent ]

    No (2.00 / 1) (#284)
    by PresJPolk on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 04:53:32 AM EST

    If Israel had taken real, honest revenge on the people of the West Bank, it would have entailed massive carpet bombing of the West Bank.

    Rolling some tanks in hardly qualifies.

    [ Parent ]

    something I am good at (none / 0) (#273)
    by Lenny on Sat Aug 31, 2002 at 08:23:03 PM EST

    I am good at revenge. In fact I am willing to harbor grudges for people that are not capable of carrying them for long periods of time. I actually get better revenge on those who wrong my friends and family than I am at enacting revenge for wrongs done to me. Let me know if you need any help in this matter.

    "Hate the USA? Boycott everything American. Particularly its websites..."
    Best kind of revenge (none / 0) (#301)
    by z1 on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 12:36:15 PM EST

    1) 2 people who have wronged you yet do not know each other. Manipulate events and create hostility, entertain yourself playing one off against the other from afar. No direct exposure, two birds, one stone. 2) Manipulate events and get them to get themselves, again the screwjee delivered, no direct exposure for yourself
    The culmination of Human history is me.
    [ Parent ]
    that sounds interresting (none / 0) (#305)
    by Lenny on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 03:13:31 PM EST

    That sounds like you have done such a thing. I personally have to let the revengee know who the revenger is. Without that knowledge, it all seems pointless to me.

    "Hate the USA? Boycott everything American. Particularly its websites..."
    [ Parent ]
    Bullies, or: Ohm's Revenge (4.50 / 2) (#281)
    by John Miles on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 01:43:21 AM EST

    By the time I was a wee lad of perhaps seven or eight, I had already amassed an impressive collection of electronic detritus.  Junk TVs, government/military surplus equipment, old car radios... you name it.

    One fine Saturday morning, the neighborhood bully entered my garage and demanded a treasured item from my hoard.  "Give me an electric motor," the archetypal Moe demanded of me, "or I'll...," followed by a threat I no longer remember, probably because it turned out to be the last of its kind.

    In response, I cheerfully unscrewed a 100K, 1-watt carbon potentiometer from a derelict TV, and attached a 110V line cord to it with masking tape.  (UL-approved electrical tape was a luxury unafforded by my meager allowance at the time.)  I turned the potentiometer's wiper counterclockwise and handed the requested contrivance to the bully.  "Plug it in," I instructed him, "and turn the shaft to get it started."

    For so long as men do as they are told, there will be war.

    Revenge... (none / 0) (#292)
    by mikelist on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 08:31:58 AM EST

    can come back to haunt the avenger and others not involved with the offense. Taking measures to illustrate that you are unwilling to be taken advantage is sometimes necessary, but must be proportionate and openly executed in order to have the desired effect.

    My best moment. (4.66 / 3) (#306)
    by trackerbri on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 03:17:54 PM EST

    A few years ago I moved to a small town where everyone's first language was one that I did not speak. Anyway, after I had been there a while I met a girl that was coming out of relationship. She told me it was over. Apparently her ex didn't think it was. After a couple months of harassment, I was getting pretty tired of this. But I was living in a town where I was the outsider, everybody knew everybody else, and a significant proportion were related to one another. I didn't want to have a physical confrontation that ended up with me standing in front of a local judge (that may be related to the complaintant), so I let it slide. One day the (then) gf and myself were out in the woods with my 4x4. We drove around all afternoon and when we got back to town I opened the gas tank to find the filler hose stuffed with sugar. I drove the 4x4 to the mechanic and left it until the Monday. It didn't take a genius to figure out who did it. Initially I tried to get the gf to tell me where he lived so I could extract retribution from his hide. After I calmed down I reported the vandalism to the police (without naming my suspect since I had no measurable proof), insurance company (in case I needed a new engine) and had the mechanic clean it all out. Luckily that particular engine seemed impossible to kill, so my out of pocket expenses were about $300 for the cleanup and very frequent fluid changes for the next 6 months. After I picked up the vehicle I promptly went to the local auto parts place and bought a couple locking gas caps. I immediately installed the one for my vehicle, and on an evening a couple weeks later (just before a long weekend) I installed the other one on his vehicle.

    Seinfeld on revenge (none / 0) (#312)
    by Rainy on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 09:39:54 PM EST

    Seinfeld is a rather popular sitcom that ran for the good part of the 90's, set in the middle of New York. It's favors shallow, clownish type of humor (but redeems itself with great execution and unusually good acting, for a sitcom). Anyway, sometimes Seinfeld dialogue captures very profound and important points in a very by-the-way manner. In one episode George (the perpetual loser) schemes his revenge on his ex-boss who just fired him. Jerry: "You know, the best revenge is living well." George answers immediately, as if he thought a great deal on this subject: "Yeah, but there's no chance of that.."

    I think masterful, witty revenge is extremely rare because most people are either not sophisticated enough to carry such out, or if they are, they tend to be too emotionally healthy to ever wish to do so.
    Rainy "Collect all zero" Day

    Best revenge in a movie: Amelie (4.50 / 2) (#313)
    by Rainy on Sun Sep 01, 2002 at 09:51:02 PM EST

    When she's a little girl, she gets a camera as a gift and snaps it all day long outside her house. A grumpy neighbour tells her every time she uses it, she causes an accident to happen. She's greatly distressed till the end of that day, but the next day she figures out he was a-kidding her.

    She waits until he's settled to watch a soccer match and gets on a roof with a portable tv, and disconnects antenna for a few seconds every time a goal is likely to be scored.

    When she's grown up, she buys groceries from another grumpy store-owner who lashes out at his mentally-challenged (slightly) but kindly employee; she sneaks into his place, and I don't remmeber the details very well, but she does a great deal of mischief, including switching door knobs so that he locks the door to the bathroom when closing it from the outside (or something like that), hooking up the lamp to burn out immediately after being turned on, and all the things combine so that when the owner wakes up in the middle of the night and wants to call his mother, he punches her shortcut button on the 'phone and is greeted by a recording from a mental institution.

    I'm sorry I don't remember this better - but I guess it's just too well 'cause it won't be spoiled for you.

    It's a very good movie, well worth seeing.
    Rainy "Collect all zero" Day

    Amelie (none / 0) (#336)
    by NFW on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 12:45:56 PM EST

    I just saw it last week. That movie rocks. It looks like a chick-flick (maybe it IS a chick-flick?), but it's so much better than that.

    Got birds?

    [ Parent ]

    The best movie revenge (spoiler) (5.00 / 1) (#356)
    by Quila on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 05:25:32 AM EST

    Three Colors: White

    Gorgeous French girl cruelly dumps her Polish husband and then tortures him some more. He goes back to Poland, gets rich and fakes his death with his ex-wife as the beneficiary, and she goes to jail for his murder.

    Just before she's arrested, he comes to her for one more night and she's all happy to see him. Then he leaves and the cops come.


    [ Parent ]

    C'est vrai, (none / 0) (#362)
    by MoonVine on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:23:55 AM EST

    It was a beautiful moment.

    [ Parent ]
    On the receiving end... (4.00 / 1) (#317)
    by hans on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 01:11:47 AM EST

    A couple years back I broke up with a girl I had been seeing for a couple years. She was a fairly nice girl and I wasn't very good at being a caring boyfriend, but I wasn't abusing her in any way or forcing her to stay with me. As Larry Miller said "I like being a sonnofa bitch. The pay's not great, but I don't have to answer to anyone & I can make my own hours." Anyway, she moved out of my place after we split, while I was out of town. I came back that night and I just felt things weren't right. I started inspecting my room & found she had a field day. She poked pinholes in my condoms & speakers, put glue/hot sauce in all my shoes, vinegar in my milk, and on & on. Total was in the area of $1800. I got it all back in cash from her. Later that summer I got in a tussle with a motorist who didn't think cyclists belong on the road. He cracked my nose with a 40 oz of Bud. I filed a report with the police, but they conveniently had no record of it. (The local PD have been terribly unhelpful in the handful of times I've made complaints about motorists.) So I managed to look up the license plate from the RMV, found the home address, and [details removed for legal reasons].

    *Cluck* *Cluck* (4.50 / 2) (#320)
    by tonyenkiducx on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 07:27:51 AM EST

    Not really sure if this counts as revenge, but when a friend of mine and me found out we were about to be fired from our jobs(We had the same jobs, same place) for no reason what-so-ever, we both hired out huge chicken costumes and spent the last day in work making chicken jokes and pecking around customers for cornfeed. I cant remember ever having a more enjoyable day at any job :)

    I see a planet where love is foremost, where war is none existant. A planet of peace, and a planet of understanding. I see a planet called utopia. And I see us invading that planet, because they'd never expect it
    The Goatse Revenge (4.66 / 3) (#333)
    by faction on Mon Sep 02, 2002 at 10:38:01 PM EST

    This happened at a lan party this weekend. A guy named doug had been acting like an jerk to my friend corie for a long time, picking on him all the time over anything. Last week corie got an idea, to make a program that replaced all the images on a pc with the goatse image. He coded it and waiting until the second day of the lan party, then started crashing doug with a netbios exploit. after a while he stopped and told doug what he had done and laughed, and said it was payback. doug was mad, and a couple hours later asked me for the program so he could crash corie. well corie had already talked to me, and given me the goatse program, but named WinNuke. following is the conversation between me and doug.

    Brad: what happens when you try?
    Doug: i click it and it doesnt do anything
    Brad: anything?
    Brad: oh
    Doug: it puts a file on the desktop

    About 10 minutes later we hear "OH MY GOD". It seems doug now has a goatse picture as his background instead of what it used to be. and goatse pictures everywhere else, and no other pictures.
    it was a good revenge... and very evil

    if you want the program for your own rewvenge, you can get it here, its a pretty small download. let me know if you use it, i need to laugh some more.

    friendly advice (5.00 / 1) (#346)
    by lonemarauder on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 04:05:45 PM EST

    From your friendly neighborhood expert witness for computer related criminal defense.

    Distributing harmful programs will land you in prison.

    [ Parent ]
    Harmful? It replaces images. (4.00 / 1) (#364)
    by Afty on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:48:09 AM EST

    He just explained what it did, and linked to it. We're back to the good old "Selling crowbars is as bad as burgling" concept here. Though your advice is good, it probably will land him in prison.

    [ Parent ]
    voice of experience (5.00 / 1) (#383)
    by lonemarauder on Thu Sep 05, 2002 at 10:51:39 AM EST

    Your point about crowbars is good, but you make a critical assumption about the state of (US)criminal justice regarding computer related crimes. You assume that common sense is part of the equation. It is not. There is a troubling hysteria among juries and judges that has prosecutors foaming at the mouth to go after nerds for easy computer related convictions.

    [ Parent ]
    re: friendly advice (3.00 / 1) (#367)
    by faction on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 09:27:59 AM EST

    I'll agree that harmful programs can get you in trouble, but I'm not making anyone download it or run it. In fact, even if it is run, it makes backups of all the pictures it replaces, including the directory structure, in the c:\windows\temp directory, so you can just copy and paste it back, no harm done. Lets just say I'm allowing people to use it only for educational purposes, and I wont be held responsible for what you do with it.

    [ Parent ]
    Big Gulp (none / 0) (#335)
    by pmk on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 12:29:54 PM EST

    I was standing on a streetcorner with a bunch of other pedestrians near the public library in downtown Minneapolis waiting for the light to turn green so we could cross. It was a nice sunny Saturday, a little hot. The immense linebacker-sized dude waiting next to me was sucking on what looked like a gallon-sized soft drink.

    The light turned green, and we started off the curb, but then had to leap backwards as a BMW convertible started to make a right turn on red. Yikes!

    I will always fondly remember the bright yellow-green splash of a full Big Gulp of Mountain Dew hitting the inside of the jerk's windshield.

    Do You See Now? (4.33 / 3) (#338)
    by andreiko on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 01:23:51 PM EST

    I've been thinking of revenge recently, as we are approaching 365 days from September 11th 2001.
    Here are some of those thoughts:

    Revenge is a desparate action to share someone's pain and suffering.

    A distorted call for compassion -- "Do you see how it feels to be ME now?"

    The horrible thing is that it is so easy to generate the need for that call not from personal experience but from the fantasy of it: "Do you see what it is to be HER now?" (when in fact nobody but HER knows that so I can't be a judge)

    or even WORSE,

    "Do you see what I THINK it feels to be THEM now?" which comes directly from the intellect which has zero capability of feeling and the power to justify anything. The intellect might tell me that it's OK to inflict physical pain on a child for doing something to things etc.

    Another important factor is the anger (or hate = extreme anger) which is usually born from "not getting something you want" or "getting something you don't want"... and then needs to be translated into "See how it feels to be ME!?"

    When I think about it, Revenge is just a tool to communicate with others, often in times when we don't want to/can't  deal with our own experience.

    Also revenge is related (at least to me) with the choice to take things personally. Example: If a guy cuts me on the freeway I have 2 possible directions of thought:
    1. This fcukin jerk cut ME off! -> competition/revenge/retaliation (anger, hate)
    2. This guy just cut in front of my CAR. He obviously doesnt know anything about me and maybe has a reason to drive as an a_ssh_ole. Reminds me of me whan I'm rushing for work. (anger, compassion)

    It's a choice and the freedom to make it is a feature built in the human condition :)

    -- Andre

    Hah I got swindled today... (none / 0) (#347)
    by el tito on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 04:20:23 PM EST

    ...for around $85. Check out my diary entry to see how it happened.

    Many responses here.... (none / 0) (#348)
    by madgeo on Tue Sep 03, 2002 at 04:28:22 PM EST

    seem to proclaim religious or moralistic reasons for not exacting revenge. I think that most of those responses do not take into account that Justice is merely Vengeance or Revenge that is societally endorsed.

    Revenge can be a form of justice that is not always available through regular governmental channels. If no one stands up to bullies that exploit the system then additional "victims" may occur.

    For example, I have a friend that was had his mirror knocked off in a bad parking incident in a parking lot. The owner of the other car refused to admit their guilt when confronted (my friend happened to be sitting in his parked car when the mirror was "removed"). The other owner would not give their insurance only their drivers license address and then left.

    After evaluating his options (the cops didn't seem to care), he decided rather than having to file an insurance claim on his own insurance for a $100 or less mirror, he would just teach the perpetrator a little lesson. They received around 1000 catalogs over the next month in the mail addressed to "Baad Personn". Simple, effective, no one hurt, and justice prevailed. Maybe they will remember that when they try to neglect their responsibilities and live in bad faith with their fellow man.

    The problem with people that think the answer is to passively "take it", or that the government will always solve the problem, is that does NOTHING for the next victim.

    Instead of focusing on Justice being applied (and I am not advocating killing for goodness sake) they are focusing on trusting government, a silly concept.

    Columbine (none / 0) (#353)
    by Hide The Hamster on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 01:06:59 AM EST

    if the Columbine shootings had happened in England, they would've exonerated them and named a national holiday after the shooters.

    Free spirits are a liability.

    August 8, 2004: "it certainly is" and I had engaged in a homosexual tryst.

    Dunblane? (none / 0) (#363)
    by Afty on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:33:31 AM EST

    Usually, trolls don't rile me. Ever heard of Dunblane? Look it up some time you ignorant sick fuck

    [ Parent ]
    A personal favorite... (4.00 / 1) (#354)
    by seebs on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 01:13:12 AM EST


    Disclaimer:  Not only is it not mine, but I only know the person who posted the story via email, but it's such an awesome story...  (Warning:  Some sex.)

    Compasses can be bad (none / 0) (#355)
    by p0ppe on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 03:32:18 AM EST

    There were a few people in middle school who used to hit other peoples shoulders. After I while, I held up a compass inside my shirt so that the bullies would hit the sharp end, and so they did.

    The interesting thing is that they became relatively friendly towards me after that.

    "Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."

    I think when bad things happen (4.50 / 2) (#365)
    by MoonVine on Wed Sep 04, 2002 at 08:49:59 AM EST

    it usually happens to the denizens of citizens that have been in some way or another involved in said "bad" things. Not to risk sounding like flamebait, I am not saying that most of us deserve to cut off, cheated on, stolen from, picked on, etc...,(where are just deserts found in life anyway?!) but normally, we call upon things to happen to us. Either through being unawares, exceedingly self-centered, making costly mistakes, being non-discriminating, and just being plain foolish. Sometimes, it's more than a bit of foolishness. But when one throws caution to the wind, but can one expect to get? I think, if we took responsibility for our actions and the consequences thereof, revenge wouldn't be an issue at all. We can and are able to work through our pain and anger and usually, if approached from maturity, we find that we were better off to begin with.

    But there are times, though when a person is wholly innocent and guilless that really terrible things happen to. I can think of Dumas' Conte of Monte Cristo as an example. I can think of Victor Hugo's Les Miserables as another, in the aspect of literature. Thomas Hardy's Tess is also another. I can think of Arjuna avenging his son in the Mahabharata. Most recently in a movie, it was in Snatch with the gypsy avenging the death of his mother. I think in all of these circumstances, it was of the innocent that were truly and maelevolently wronged. And in these instances, it was also the wronged that didn't have vengence or bitterness in their hearts. IMHO, it was as if they wanted to set the record straight, to bring an injustice to a close, to an end. They never, once, felt hatred. (About the movie Snatch, I'm sure anger and hate were involved, but man, it was sooooo cool to oust the evil lecherous asshole pimp. I guess that's another angle). In a real life incident, President Mandela after finally being set free from enduring a terriblly racial, ardous and inhumane injustice in South Africa, stepped out of his cell, not only thanked his jailers but hugged the ones that took care of him. There is so much to being human that only a few precious souls have tapped into.

    i myself, have had very vindictive thoughts, but never acted on them. Usually, they go away when the initial HOW DARE YOU anger recedes and I start to see my own involvement in things gone awry. Usually more often than not, most of the things that have angered me could have been prevented. I have never encountered anyone who was truly evil and bent on my destruction. Just a lot of ignorance. So, for me, it wouldn't behoove me to react to ignorance with more ignorance and contribute to the layer of fatty violence, ignominy, and bitterness.

    There was one time in my life when I was really young and impressional that a boy violated my trust. His life, hasn't been the same since. I think sometimes, nature takes care of her own. And that's my story.

    The Big Payback: Revenge. | 385 comments (383 topical, 2 editorial, 1 hidden)
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