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Exercise Won't Kill You, It'll Hurt Though

By thelizman in Culture
Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:00:13 AM EST
Tags: etc (all tags)
/etc

The old saying is that 'exercise never killed anyone'. That alternative - sedentary lifestyles and obesity - probably will. But just because it won't kill you doesn't mean exercise is painless. One of the biggest reasons why dedicated people stop exercising is because of injury. They usually lapse back into a sedentary lifestyle while recovering. Having discovered the joys of pain myself, I thought I'd share my discoveries with new or aspiring fitness enthusiasts. In this article, I'll write about the most common injuries sustained while running, and what to do about them so that you can enjoy your workout.


Shin Splints

By far the most common injury for runner is the dreaded "shin splint". A shin splint is actually three conditions, two of which are associated. Essentially, shin splints mean only one thing: You tried to do too much too soon. The condition manifests itself as a pain either along-side the shin, or deep inside the shin. The pain is persistent while running, but usually subsides when you stop. Many times the pain is only mild, and more gung-ho runners will try to ignore it until it eventually gets worse.

The first condition often associated with shin splints is not a shin splint at all, but has similar symptoms. New runners who run on irregular surfaces, or returning runners who try to exercise at their old levels will oven stress the tibia (shin bone). Bones actually flex when they are stressed, and though they don't break they can develop small stress fractures. During the course of activity these stress fractures go unnoticed, and a are part of the bones natural strengthening process. However, with repeated stresses the fractures won't heal, and may even expand developing into a break. To determine if your shin splints are actually microfractures, grasp your lower leg with your thumb together over the shin bone, thumb pads resting flat against the bone (do not use your thumb tips for this). Rub your thumbs down the length of your tibia until you get to the ankle, and then back up again. If at any single point along your tibia you should feel a sharp pain in a specific area, this could indicate a microfracture. If the pain is over a much larger area, it is probably a typical whack-the-coffee-table injury (you actually receive several of these in a day and don't notice because your mind is preoccupied). An actual microfracture will be in a very small area, and will usually go across the bone, not along the length of it.

If you suspect you have a microfracture, you should stop running immediately. See you doctor, who may take an X-Ray. If you have microfractures, they should heal very quickly, and you can resume running in no time. To keep your fitness routine in line, you can take brisk "power" walks. A power walk will help maintain your cardiopulmonary health until you can get back to serious running. You may also want to look at your diet. Low calcium intake, low levels of magnesium, and a lack of vitamin C will make your bones and muscles fight over these essential minerals. Also, if you are a woman over 40 or are pregnant, you will require extra vitamins and minerals anyway. Anyone on an exercise routine should be taking a multivitamin.

After microfractures, real shin splints are the most common affliction. Shin splints result from the swelling of the muscle that runs alongside the shin bone. In one type of shin splint, the outer lining of the muscle will have too much pressure on it from the muscle itself, and this will result in an aching feeling. In another type of shin splint, the sheath around the shinbone itself becomes irritated by the pressure of the inflamed muscle against it, and by the stresses on the attachment points between the muscle and the shin bone. This is (thankfully) a temporary condition, and explains why shin splints rarely hurt any other time then when you are running.

To deal with shin splints, first take some kind of anti-inflammatory pain reliever like ibuprofen. Even when you're not feeling the pain, the muscle and surrounding tissues are still inflamed. For severe cases, you should bring an ice pack with you. Immediately after running, you will need to do warm down exercises. Following that, ice your shins for about 10 minutes. If the thought of freezing your legs is not appealing, you can use a thin t-shirt or light towel to keep the absolute icy cold out while still cooling the muscles and tissues down. Icing the shins tightens up blood vessels in the area to reduce swelling, but it is important that blood gets in there, so after that 10 minute period you may want to wrap your shins with a neoprene wrap to keep the muscles warm. Also, dial back your running for a week or two. Don't keep overdoing it if you don't have to. A good power walk, or a light jog will keep you in good condition.

Hyper-extension and Stress Injury

Probably more common than shin splints, but usually less debilitating, are hyper-extension injuries. These are also known as "pulled" or "sprained" muscles. Generally speaking the number one cause of this type of injury is poor stretching. Before starting any exercise, you should stretch all of the muscles associated with that exercise. There are several different kinds of stretches, and it would take too long to explain them all. Runners World has a page that lists the most common types of stretches. You should stretch both before and after your exercise to keep muscles limber, and you should also stretch during 'breather' periods during your exercise. Also, if you feel a muscle starting to get tight, you should stop, stretch that muscle for a few seconds, and start again.

In addition to stretching, you should incorporate warm-up and warm-down periods into your exercise regiment. For runners, you would never cold start a sprint or long distance run. Instead, run a nice easy quarter mile at a moderate pace, then walk it out. Stretch your muscles, and keep moving, walking, and talking to keep your body at an elevated pace while you wait to start your run.

Where you run can often be as important as how you run. Uneven surfaces will stress your ankles, hips, and calves while you fight to stay vertical. Try to run on grass or packed dirt while avoiding pavement. The softer surfaces will absorb the impact of you coming down on each step while concrete, cement, and asphalt will jar your joints. A 200 lb man can have as much as 1200 lbs of force per square inch exerted on his joints while jogging. Also, know your course. If you're new to a trail, you should walk or jog it first to look for roots that protrude, holes in the ground, or anything else that might catch your foot and cause you to trip or sprain a joint. If at all possible, try to find a public track. Often community colleges and high schools make their tracks available to the general public during off hours. In addition to being paved with impact-absorbing rubber, they are of a uniform length and will allow you to better gauge your running progress. There will also be other people there, and you might meet a running partner or pick up some good advise.

Piriformus Syndrome and Achy Breaky Butts

This is a rarer condition, and even a lot of active runners will never have a problem with it. Other people confuse it for bursitis or sciatica. All three share common symptoms: A sharp throbbing pain in the hip or buttocks, sometimes radiating down the leg and to the back. First, lets look at the other two causes of achy butts.

Bursitis is an inflammation of the bursa. Bursae are tiny sacks that lubricate joints or areas of the body where two tissue meet and move over each other. Bursitis is usually associated or confused with arthritis because joints work the hardest, and need the most lubrication. Bursitis also affects the tendons and ligaments in the body, but because they are soft tissues it's a bit rarer for them to be afflicted by bursitis. Bursitis is rarely a problem for runners, and usually is the result of poor mechanics. You'll find that most injuries are the result of overuse and abuse, and bursitis is no different. Take an anti-inflammatory, rest well, and try to work on your form.

Sciatica is the inflammation or irritation of the sciatic nerve. The sciatic is a very large nerve which travels from your lower back down the inside of your legs. Inflammation of the sciatic or any other nerve is often caused by (believe it or not) medications which irritate the nervous system, or drugs such as caffeine, ephedra, ma huang (an ephedra bearing herbal remedy), or any kind of "stay awake" pill. You should already avoid these on principle. Unfortunately, inflamed nerves tend to stay inflamed for a long time. The best remedy for sciatica is to drink plenty of water, and make yourself comfortable. It can take several weeks or a few months for any drug to completely leave your system, just as it took several weeks, months, or sometimes years for you to suffer its effects. Other causes of sciatica include poor form, or a biomechanical problem like scoliosis of the spine, fallen arches, osteoporosis resulting in a hunched back, or poor posture or gait. Runners may get sciatica because they pronate (lean forward) when they run.

Another cause of sciatica is itself a cause of achy butts, and that is Piriformus syndrome. This condition, like shin splints, often comes form a sudden rise in activity that causes a particular muscle to become inflamed. It can also come from over-extending your stride, which places excessive stress on the piriformus muscle. This muscle attaches to the top of your femur, and anchors it to the inside of your hip. The piriformus is responsible for swinging your leg to the side and twisting it. In most people, the piriformus rides over the sciatic nerve, and in a few cases the sciatic goes through the branches of the piriformus. Because of this, sciatica can be caused by an inflamed piriformus, or they can both coexist at the same time. If your achy butt is associated with lower back pain, it's likely that you have a combination of these two. Luckily, recovery from this is quick, and prevention is easy. Once again, poor form is a big cause, and poor stretching is an accomplice. To overcome piriformus syndrome, stretch the muscles of your hip by sitting with your legs crossed and bent. Your one ankle should be over the other knee. Then, grab your knee and pull it to your chest. You will also want to strengthen this muscle to prevent reoccurrence of the pain in the future, and this can be accomplished by good old fashioned sideways leg lifts.

Runners Knee

This surprisingly common condition has one name, but many different causes. The symptoms always include a pain in the knees. This is most common among older runners and over weight people. When you are running, a lb of fat on your gut is the biomechanical equivalent of 3 lbs on your back. Unfortunately, waiting until you lose weight puts the cart before the horse.

First, you need to know the cause of your 'runners knee'. The most common causes are chondromalacia and osteochondritis. Chondromalacia is an insufficient amount of cartilage in the knee joint, and is usually from the body not being able to replace cartilage as fast as you damage it. Diet is very important here, and you should make sure you are getting enough protein. If you exercise regularly, or you have runners knee and exercise irregularly, you should be getting .7 to 1.0 grams of protein per pound of body weight a day. Since most people who are on a diet will be starved for protein, or because most of us are on high carb diets, an alternative to eating right is to take joint supplements. Most people see marked improvement in knee pain with a combination of MSM and glucosamine chondroitin. These are available just about anywhere you can buy vitamins. You will need to take this combination for a few weeks before you will notice the improvement, but unless you have a combination of dietary or other factors (such as arthritis), you will usually be better in a few months, and will not have to resume taking these supplements. Another cause of osteochondritis is mechanical and often related to shoe wear. If the foot is out of whack, say from a heavily worn insole, it will also throw the knees out of alignment. The kneecap or patella rides up and down over the knee joint in a channel. A misaligned leg will tend to make the patella ride up out of the joint, or track to the side, and the groove and patella will be worn unevenly and excessively.

MSM and glucosamine chondroitin also work for the next culprit, Osteochondritis. Osteochondritis is a swelling of the cartilage and the bone tissue itself as a result of impact injuries. Initially, you should treat osteochondritis as any other kind of injury. Ice it first for about ten minutes, then keep it warm for the rest of the time. After a while, your body will usually adapt to your running condition and you may only rarely need to take supplements or give treatment to your knees for this.

Finally, the runners knee that is actually 'runners knee' is caused by a muscle called the illio-tibial band. This is that tight little muscle that runs down the outside of your leg from the hip bone to the knee itself, and attaches at the base of the femur. Because part of the tendon that attaches this muscle rubs against the femur, it will become inflamed during running. This manifests itself as a pain on the outside of the knee. Runners knee is usually caused by poor stretching and over use. You should ice the knee for about 10 minutes, and then wrap the knee with a neoprene sleeve to keep it warm.

Torn Anterior Cruciate Ligament

You ever wonder why your knee won't bend backwards. Well given enough force, it will. But preventing that from happening is the job of the Anterior Crucial Ligament (ACL). The ACL is a single ligament that splits and crosses over itself. This ligament is very strong because of the fibrous nature of ligaments, and can withstand several tons of reverse pressure. However, a twisting of the knee or colliding with another runner while the ACL is extended can tear the ACL resulting in a painful and unrecoverable injury. Many sports stars have their careers set back or ended altogether after suffering a torn ACL. The good news for runners is that it is very rare, even for the most vigorous athletes. Moreover, it is 100% preventable for a runner. Simply watch where you are going, never take tight turns, and never lock your knee straight.

Good Running Shoes

The most important thing to a runner is their feet. Since it's usually not practical to run barefoot, you must have good shoes for running. First, you have to realize that buying shoes is not about what the cost is, what looks cool, or what special features are built into the shoe. Shoes with air or gel in the sole are good for absorbing impact, and are a good idea for training. However, for competition (marathons, track meets, etc), the energy they absorb also takes energy away from your stride. You shoes should be snug, but not so tight that you can't feel your toes. Select a shoe that is going to give you good support, and if you have fallen arches or flat feet, you should consider getting an orthotic insert to align the bones of your foot. These can range from $50 to $200 US, but are much cheaper than seeing a doctor about injuries caused by alignment. Finally, the only time you should wear your running shoes is while you are running, except if they are new shoes in which case you should wear them for about a week to break them in. If you try to go running with new shoes, chances are good you'll develop a blister on your foot that will set you back days in your training. Also, if you have narrow feet or tend to roll your foot, you should make sure you get a shoe with wide soles for stability.

I cannot stress the importance of shoes enough. They aren't just for your feet, but for your whole body. A shoe that is excessively worn or broken-in will cause your body to misalign, and can lead to the aforementioned injures of the hip, ankle, knees, and will also place undue stress on your back, arms, and neck.

Proper Form

Everything in your body is connected. Because of this, form is important. Bad form will slow you down, hinder your performance, injure you, and damage your morale. Ironically, though anyone with legs can run, most people don't do it right. The biggest mistake people make is to take short choppy steps. If you can power walk as fast as you can jog, then you need to extend your stride. Short choppy steps will cause knee problems, ankle problems, shin-splints, and generally won't improve your running at all. If you absolutely cannot run any faster, than power walk. A power walk is a much lower impact and more energy efficient stride than the short-step jog.

Your stride length is important. The goal is to get a fairly long stride, but you have to work up to that in order to not injure your periformus or knees. As a start, you want to try a stride that is at least 1/2 as long as you are tall. For instance, a man who is 72 inch should have a 36" stride. This is actually about the same as your stride when you are power walking, but the difference is in the mechanics of how you run compared to how you walk. Eventually, you should work your way up to a stride that is almost as long as you are tall. Ironically, you will use much less energy to run fast with longer stride then with short strides because of the way the body is designed to recycle energy.

As important as your stride is, so is your posture. Many people who run tend to "pronate", or lean forward. If ever there is a time to not slouch, it's when you are pounding along the pavement. Pronaters will have back, neck, and most notably knee problems. When jogging or running, your back should be straight up. When you are sprinting, you may pronate lightly, but not excessively. In addition to throwing your body out of alignment, pronating also hampers your breathing by limiting the amount of expansion the chest can comfortably do. People who pronate also tend to look downward at the track, effectively restricting their airway and hampering their breathing.

A big no-no some people do while running is moving their arms. When you are sprinting, you need to pump your arms in order to maintain your balance. But when you are jogging or running, pumping your arms only does one thing. It makes your arms tired. You want to try to hold your arms down by your sides as if you were walking, and swing them just enough to maintain your balance. This keeps your arms and shoulders from being tired, and doesn't take up oxygen that your legs need.

General Tips for Any Exercise Routine

Speaking of oxygen, breathing is probably one of the biggest limiting factors. Stop smoking whatever you smoke, and you'll pick up minutes on your run. The goal in breathing is not to get as much air into your lungs as possible, but to need less air. Cardiopulmonary efficiency is more important than being able to hyperventilate. Work on your breathing by breathing through your nose as much as possible. When you can no longer do that, then breathe in through your nose, and out through your mouth. The only time you should have to breathe through your mouth only is when you are sprinting 440 and 660 meter dashes (roughly 1/4 or 3/8 of a mile respectively). The air you breathe before you start sprinting is the air that fuels your sprint, so if you are running for time take deep breaths, but if you are training for a run then you should focus on controlling your breathing. How you breath is also important. Take deep breaths, and exhale quickly but gently. You should inhale over four steps, and if you breathe in too fast than hold your breath until you have completed those four steps. How fast you can get air in and out of your lungs is not nearly as important as how long there is fresh air in your lungs that can be absorbed into the blood stream. If you've ever felt pain your side, that pain is caused by trying to breathe too fast.

Of course, as with any exercise routine good nutrition is important. While I mentioned protein, anyone who is serious about running will want to eat a well balanced diet that includes lots of whole foods. At the same time, you'll feel better when you ignore junk foods like potato chips, candies, French fries, and breads made from bleached white flours. You'll also want to avoid caffeinated drinks packed with sugars like soda or coffee. Instead of sodas, drink water and lots of it. When you're running - and you will enjoy it - you will sweat profusely and that water has to be replenished in order for your body to function. Avoid drinking heavily, but don't turn your back on alcohol altogether. Studies have show that light drinkers who enjoy a glass of wine or beer a night have overall better heart health.

Earlier, I had addressed not using 'energy pills' on principle. To anyone aware of the danger of using steroids, that principle also applies to pills which artificially modulate the bodies natural energy state. With exercise, your body will naturally elevate its natural energy state. You will have more endurance and more motivation, but for beginners it is tempting to get a little edge by taking 'herbal diet pills'. The primary component in many of this pills is chemically similar to methamphetamine - a dangerous drug. Merely using these drugs - much less abusing them - can cause heart damage in addition to irritating the nervous system. This same rule applies to so-called 'energy drinks', which may give you a little pick up, but will never sustain you for long.

One exception to the 'energy drink' rule are legitimate sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade. These drinks replenish needed electrolytes and help keep the body going during longer periods of exercise. Failing to replenish these vital chemicals will lead to a condition known as hypnotremia which, while annoyingly painful is rarely life threatening. Symptoms of hypnotremia are similar to heat stroke. If you don't like sports drinks, or they upset your stomach, you can simply add 3 grams of normal table salt to every liter of water. One thing to keep in mind is that hypnotremia is an extreme condition, and unless you commonly compete in Ironman or Eco-Challenge like competitions, you won't likely have to deal with it. Just stay hydrated.

Proper form, concentration, stretching, and warm-up/warm-down periods are the best way to prevent injuries, and will allow you to enjoy the health benefits of running.

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Poll
What Kind of Excercise Do You Enjoy
o Running 24%
o Weight Lifting 21%
o Aerobics 0%
o Le Course 3%
o Hiking 12%
o PT (Good For You, Good For Me) 4%
o Excercise? That takes too much time away from the Internet! 33%

Votes: 65
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o page that lists the most common types of stretches
o Also by thelizman


Display: Sort:
Exercise Won't Kill You, It'll Hurt Though | 117 comments (96 topical, 21 editorial, 0 hidden)
No pain no game (none / 0) (#6)
by rayab on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:38:40 PM EST

While serious injuries dont fall under this category I think everyone who just began exercising should expect muscle pain. I have been working out at the gym on and off for over four years and have never sustained an injury. I think someone is really ought to be doing something wrong if they sustain the injuries listed in the article.
I have been backpacking all summer. Let me tell you there's nothing that feels better than hauling a 40-50lb backpack up a mountain while gaining about 2000ft of elevation in under two miles. Exercise is the best natural high I have ever experienced.

I'm glad to see a sports relaed article on k5, I have been contemplating whether I should write an article about hiking/backpacking.

Y popa bila sobaka on yeyo lyubil, ona syela kusok myasa on yeyo ubil, v zemlyu zakopal, i na mogile napisal...
pain (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:44:15 PM EST

There's good pain and bad pain. It's important to be able to tell the difference between normal muscle pain caused by taking the muscle to the point where it will grow and the pain that is a warning sign of injury.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
I would (none / 0) (#52)
by Anonymous 7324 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:55:20 AM EST

love to see an article on hiking and backpacking anyway. :)

[ Parent ]
Rawkee Mounted Hi... (none / 0) (#76)
by stormysky on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 12:04:49 PM EST

I'm glad to see a sports relaed article on k5, I have been contemplating whether I should write an article about hiking/backpacking.
You should. :) There's various stuff scattered about the web, but usually at sites that want to sell you something. It'd be interesting seeing what you take on your hikes, what clothing you find wicks best, what to definately stay away from, any tricks you use so your water doesn't taste like the plastic bottle it's in, etc. And, hopefully, other people would post some personal anecdotes as well in reply. Do you hike in the snow? What do you bring... etc. (I live about 30 miles from the Mosquito range, in Colorado. Locally, I've got some 11ks that constantly coax me into trudging about them... hence my interest. :) )
We can face anything, except for bunnies.
[ Parent ]
I can help you with the water issue (none / 0) (#81)
by Silver222 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:46:40 PM EST

Lexan Nalgene bottles. No plastic taste. I don't use bottles anymore, I take a Camelback with me. I fell in love with it mountain biking and bottles just seem unwieldy now. To get the plastic taste out of a new Camelback bladder, put in an ounce or two of the blue Listerine, and fill it up with water. Let it sit for an hour in the fridge, then dump and rinse. The more Listerine you use, the more of a mint taste you get.

[ Parent ]
Nalgene (none / 0) (#102)
by awgsilyari on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 01:20:53 AM EST

But if you use iodo-tablets in the bottle, does it pick up the iodine taste?

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com
[ Parent ]
Some Pain Avoidable (none / 0) (#103)
by Phil Gregory on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 02:10:34 AM EST

While serious injuries dont fall under this category I think everyone who just began exercising should expect muscle pain.

Yes, some, but a very common source of pain is the general muscle soreness that comes after a workout, and that can be largely avoided by stretching afterward. (A recent study seems to indicate that stretching before exercise provides few noticeable benefits.)

I still remember and follow the stretching technique I learned in a drum and bugle corps. The first thing was to continue breathing while stretching--it really helps. A muscle should be stretched until it's just slightly tight and held without bouncing it for a period of time (we counted slowly to ten--I'd estimate it took 15~20 seconds). While stretching, don't forget to breathe. After holding for a time, the stretch is pulled tighter and held for a similar count (while still breathing). Then the muscle is smoothly relaxed--again, no bouncing. Repeat for all the other muscles in the body. (For our weekend camps, we spent about an hour both at the beginning and end of the day stretching what felt like every muscle we had.)



--Phil (I learned the reasons for most of that in college, but I forgot them again.) Gregory
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
[ Parent ]
Any studies? (none / 0) (#7)
by the on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:39:54 PM EST

I don't like to take non-FDA tested drugs without some kind of evidence that they actually work. Are there any studies that glucosamine chondroitin actually does what is claimed on the packaging?

I enjoy running outdoors but gave it up because of runner's knee. Now I use an elliptical cross trainer but it's a bit boring.

--
The Definite Article

Yes, and to Hell With The FDA (none / 0) (#12)
by thelizman on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:50:09 PM EST

The FDA approved acetominophen, and hundreds of people die or need liver transplants from that each year. The FDA approved philidomide, and plenty of people now wish they died.

There have been studies on both MSM and GC, and it is one of the leading reasons why many doctors are now considering a holistic appoach to medicine that includes non-drug therapies. Of course, it's common sense that if you give yourself more of the chemicals your body needs to build itself - all other diseases aside - it will rebuild itself.

Right now, I'm too lazy to dig any of them up, but it should'nt take more than a second at google (my lazyness not withstanding) to come up with a half dozen studies by major universities. It's also worth noting that even drug companies like pfizer and eli lilly are marketing it now.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Different ideas about common sense (none / 0) (#16)
by the on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:01:35 PM EST

Of course, it's common sense that if you give yourself more of the chemicals your body needs to build itself - all other diseases aside - it will rebuild itself.
I've not heard that argument before. It doesn't seem like common sense to me at all. When you eat the content of your food gets broken down and then needed materials are synthesized by the body as needed. For example you don't need to eat cartilage because your body can synthesize it from any protein that's been digested. It's more important to have a balanced diet to ensure that your body has all of the ingredients to build for itself what it needs.

It's also worth noting that even drug companies like pfizer and eli lilly are marketing it now.
For arthritis I think.

--
The Definite Article
[ Parent ]
Synthesizing (3.00 / 2) (#26)
by thelizman on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:43:53 PM EST

Digestion does not completely break down everything. In fact, the digestion process can be very selective in what it does break down, which is why sometimes you'll pass foods whole (look ma! there's corn in mah poop!). Mostly though, digestion breaks down foods into their componant levels, kind of like demolishing a legoland playset to make something else.

Essential amino acids - something you may have heard you need to get in your diet - cannot be synthesized by the body. That is why they are essential. The nonessential ones are the ones your body can put together like the A-Team making a tank in a junk-yard. Unfortunately, many of those essential amino acids go into making muscle in bone. One reason why hard-core vegetarians tend to be skinny and weak looking is because it is hard to get those essential amino acids from plants. You really have to know your diet well. It's not impossible to have good nutrition as a vegan, but most people go that route as a political decision and don't really research it (much like their other political decisions).

Shit, I just injected politics into this discussion : )
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
vegetarian (1.00 / 1) (#30)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:55:42 PM EST

It's actually not all that hard, unless you are a vegan. Even if you are, it isn't all that hard. But it does take a little bit of reading, and as you say, some people just dive in and don't research.

Really, all the research boils down to is: Eat lots of beans, and tofu, and if you are a vegan, take B-12 supplements.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Rather Counterproductive (none / 0) (#74)
by Korimyr the Rat on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 11:46:52 AM EST

Seeing as B-12 supplements are made from animal products, aren't they?

--
"Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein
Founding Member of 'Retarded Monkeys Against the Restriction of Weapons Privileges'
[ Parent ]
ah, myths (none / 0) (#38)
by Goatmaster on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 09:00:12 PM EST

It's not hard to get the essential amino acids from plants, not hard at all. Eat some soy. Job done. However, if you don't enjoy soy you can quite easily get it from eggs or milk, if you're one of those ovo-lacto vegetarian folk.

Not sure where this myth of a pasty skinny vegetarian came from, never met a unhealthy looking, non-muscular (male anyways) vegetarian.

It's even easy for vegans to get everything they need from plant sources. You don't need meat to be strong and healthy. That's just a plain fact, without any moral judgement attached, not saying one way's better than another.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
[ Parent ]
skinny vegetarians (3.00 / 2) (#46)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 09:48:20 PM EST

I ended up seventy pounds overweight on a largely ovo-lacto vegetarian diet (plus the occasional sushi.) Took exercise and diet to take it off.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Yeah, well... (none / 0) (#115)
by evilpenguin on Sat Oct 19, 2002 at 01:13:59 PM EST

Being you're eating dairy, you could eat butter dipped in ice cream all day if you really wanted to.  Hell, vegans could eat penut butter and starches all the time.

Just being a vegan/vegitarian/ovo-lacto whatever is not a prescription for weight loss in itself, but it can (does) make you pay attention to just what it is that you're eating.  That heightened awareness is what will do it, if anything.
--
# nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
[ Parent ]

No pages were found containing "philidomide&q (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by J'raxis on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 09:34:58 AM EST

Thalidomide.

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

I can vouch for glucosamine (none / 0) (#20)
by TheOnlyCoolTim on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:15:16 PM EST

My father takes it and it works wonders for him. It also was used all the time on animals before they took the same pill, marked it up a bunch, and sold it to people.

Tim
"We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."
[ Parent ]

A word of caution (none / 0) (#49)
by tzigane on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 12:25:01 AM EST

For those who may have an rheumatoid arthritis. In some people chondroitin can trigger RA flareups.

.
Knit on with confidence and hope through all crises. E. Zimmermann
[ Parent ]

Actually, it has! (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:41:02 PM EST

One of the big exercise gurus of the seventies, Jim Fixx, died of a heart attack while running, as a result of the steak and eggs breakfasts he ate.

The moral of the story being that while exercise is a necessary part of good health, you cannot ignore good nutrition. Also, slow and steady wins the race. Don't push yourself maniacally at the beginning. Better to keep at it and aim just to always improve.

There's one yoga pose that help shin splints. You squat as low as you can with your knees wide. Put an album inside either knee, put your hands in "prayer" positon and push your forearms straight, pushing your knees out. Works great (in addition to your other advice.)

Iyengar yoga also does wonders for posture, which helps running as well.

I've also found that for myself, at least, my lungs improve faster than my legs. When I started, I'd huff and puff like mad and my lungs were constantly causing me to slow to a walk. Now I can maintain moderate breathing at nearly any speed my legs can take me.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup

Jim Fixx Smoked Like A Freight Train... (5.00 / 3) (#13)
by thelizman on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 06:52:06 PM EST

He was also genetically predisposed to heart disease and failed to heed his symptoms. There is still no scientific evidence that a diet high in meat and animal fat causes clogged arteries or heart disease - don't live off the myths the AMA and corporate food industry pays the FDA to propagate.

Oh crap, I'm starting to sound like a Noam Chomsky or Ralph Nader now.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
cholesteral (1.00 / 1) (#17)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:05:14 PM EST

It depends....

Way back when I was an undergrad pursing a bio degree, I read that it seemed as if there were essentially three types of people in the world in regards to cholesteral, all involving a certain receptor on certain cells. There was a lucky group that could basically eat lard all day and still have a low blood cholesteral. (I personally seem to be in this group.) There is an unlucky group that has huge troubles purging their blood of cholesteral and has a hell of a time keeping to a strict diet. And finally, there is a middle group that is usually ok unless they pig out.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

The Latest Thinking (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by thelizman on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:39:11 PM EST

...if you follow Dr. Atkins who, like him or love him, backs his ass up with some very well documented research by similarly scorned doctors, he has recently gotten more attention because his diet is getting more mainstream foundation from the science community. Lately, scientists have begun to guess (which is basically what any good scientist does, and then goes on to justify that guess) that what is important is having a good ration of ldl and hdl cholesterol - how high each of them are matters not. To add to Dr. Atkins smugness, other studies now suggest that sugars change blood pH, and that causes fats to cling to artery walls band plaque over.

Personally, I'm in fantastic cardiovascular health in spite of my formerly shitty diet. I avoid grease but only because it upsets my stomach. I still eat fats and vegetable oils, and I've never been healthier (except for a raging case of ghonasyphaherpalitis).
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
YMMV (4.00 / 1) (#27)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:50:11 PM EST

People vary a lot. About fifteen years ago, my wife, I and her then boyfriend took one of those supermarket cholesteral tests. Neither of us ate any meat but fish, and she avoided dairy. Her ex-boyfriend loved to eat carnitas and would sit down with an italian dry sausage and eat the whole thing. His "bad" cholesteral was 112. Mine was 125. Hers was over 200. So diet is definitely NOT everything. I personally think it is like a lot of things. Some people are susceptible. Others aren't.

My only advice would be just to make sure you get your cholesteral checked. I personally think it is a bit premature to say that a high cholesteral doesn't matter...at least, I personally wouldn't risk my life on it. That's why I brought up Fixx...clearly just exercise won't save you like a heart attack.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Additionally (none / 0) (#18)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:10:00 PM EST

Regardless of what causes high cholesteral, clogged arteries make intense cardio dangerous...see your doctor, blah blah blah...
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Heh (3.00 / 1) (#34)
by coryking on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 08:28:32 PM EST

...and [the] corporate food industry pays the FDA to propagate...

While I agree that there is little evidance suggesting eating meat and animal fat is bad, I seriously doubt major corporations are "paying off" the FDA or creating myths to try to get us to eat less meat and animal fat. Seriously - it's far more expensive to engineer and market ways to make non-fat things that taste like fat rather then just make things outright fatty. If anything, corporations would be trying to shut us vegitarians up folk up while PETA, and animal rights activists create the myths.

You really think McDonalds, Kraft, or Frito-Lay are creating myths about animal fat and meat??

[ Parent ]

Oh, they've tried... (4.50 / 2) (#45)
by SvnLyrBrto on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 09:40:46 PM EST

> corporations would be trying to shut us vegitarians up

They HAVE tried to "debunk" vegetarianism. They've even gone so far as to but laws and try to sue vegetarians into destitution.

Pick a search engine (I'll use google) and enter the word: McLibel. You'll get many a link to the notorious case in the UK. In 1995 a pair of vegetarians were handing out leaflets promoting their dietary choice. The McDonalds corperation took exception to this and sued them for libel.

Two things about libel suits in the UK: 1) Libel suits, unlike criminal cases, follow the principle that you are guilty until you proove yourself innocent. 2) There is NO legal aid for the accused in libel suits.

McDonalds dragged the case through the courts for two years, and in 1997 got a judge to fine the vegetarians 60,000.

Another famous case of the corperations trying to silence anyone suggesting that eating meat might be unhealthy is the equally infamous case of the texas cattle indusrty's lawsuit against Oprah Winfrey.

They've been dragging her through court since 1996; yes, six and a half YEARS; because in 1996, she mentioned on her show that she may never eat a hamburger again!

Aparantly, they had bribed enough politicians in the past to put into place certian "food disparagement" laws that made it illegal to say anything negative about certian protected foodstuffs (including, of course, texas beef). Well, Oprah says she won't eat hamburger anymore. We can't have someone with a large audience quit eating beef, now can we? The dirty hippys we can ignore... no one cares about THEM But people might LISTEN to Oprah, and quit eating beef themselves! Heavens no!!!

So the cattle industry sued Oprah. First they tried in texas courts, where the suit was thrown out relatively quickly. Then, in 1998, they sued in federal court. They managed to drag Oprah through the federal courts for another four YEARS.

Intrestingly enough, the federal case was just recently thrown out of court by the federal judge hearing it.

So have no doubt... the meat corperations ARE tyring to shut the vegetarians up.

cya,
john

Imagine all the people...
[ Parent ]

Yoik. (4.50 / 2) (#58)
by Jacques Chester on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 07:39:23 AM EST

Two things about libel suits in the UK: 1) Libel suits, unlike criminal cases, follow the principle that you are guilty until you proove yourself innocent. 2) There is NO legal aid for the accused in libel suits.
Perhaps you are just ignorant of the law of libel and the way that the law is often divided between criminal and civil law.

There is no "presumption of innocence" in libel suits. Instead cases are decided on "the balance of probability". This means that McDonald's showed that their position - that they had been defamed - was significantly more supportable by legally-admissible evidence than the opposing propositions put by the vegetarians.

As for legal aid, do you really think that every single civil action should attract legal aid? Look at it this way. If you knew that when you threw mud at corporations, and got sued, you could get legal aid, would you be more or less likely to spread what you know (or at least suspect) are lies?

The law of libel exists to deter people from spreading malicious untruths about people and organisations. Just because it stung the "good guys" doesn't mean it's somehow eeeeeeeevil. The common law has been refining this stuff for hundreds of years. McDonald's is hardly the first big group to be slurred, and the vegetarians were hardly the first "little guys" to throw mud. Had McDonalds maligned the two vegetarians in question in the same fashion with the same degree of untruthfulness, then I have no doubt McDonalds would have been slapped by the same body of caselaw.

Please, before you shoot off your mouth about law, remember that in England and the Common Law countries, it is approximately one thousand years in development. Highly mature production-ready code, as it were. And it's more sensible than people seem prepared to give it credit for.

--
Well now. We seem to be temporarily out of sigs here at the sig factory. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.
[ Parent ]

Dangerous Argument (4.00 / 1) (#78)
by czolgosz on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 12:43:24 PM EST

<bq> Please, before you shoot off your mouth about law, remember that in England and the Common Law countries, it is approximately one thousand years in development. Highly mature production-ready code, as it were. And it's more sensible than people seem prepared to give it credit for. </bq>

This is an argument for the status quo, whatever it might be. The alternative interpretation is that it's a millennium's worth of cruft, a snarled mass of dangerous, unreliable legacy code written for an entirely different set of requirements, and definitely for a different group of users. The "noble tradition of Anglo-Saxon law" was originally developed to maintain the dominance of a predatory, foreign ruling class (um, remember the Normans? Ever wonder why barristers had to learn Law French until very recently?) and to rob and cheat the little guy-- is this really what we need now? Or are you arguing that if we'd just RTFM and run the system like William the Conqueror, we'd all be just fine?

Once could more reasonably argue for a complete redesign, and a cutover to a less buggy, broken system. The only reason I don't embrace such a recommendation with enthusiasm is that, in the present political climate, it's possible we could end up with something even more badly hosed. Better the devil you know.
Why should I let the toad work squat on my life? --Larkin
[ Parent ]
Law teaches analysis. (none / 0) (#95)
by Jacques Chester on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 02:57:47 AM EST

Not directly of course, but it's a skill one learns as one studies law. It means "break the situation down and look at stuff in small bits". I will now do so with your post above.

This is an argument for the status quo, whatever it might be.
Emphasis added because, as you then proceed to say:
...it's a millennium's worth of cruft, a snarled mass of dangerous, unreliable legacy code written for an entirely different set of requirements, and definitely for a different group of users.
How can you on the one hand imply that you don't know what the "status quo" is, and on the other, then say that the Common Law is hopelessly antiquated? But I am nitpicking.

More substantively, and showing that you are somewhat educated in this respect:

The "noble tradition of Anglo-Saxon law" was originally developed to maintain the dominance of a predatory, foreign ruling class (um, remember the Normans? Ever wonder why barristers had to learn Law French until very recently?) and to rob and cheat the little guy-- is this really what we need now?
What, and the local nobles were angels, I suppose?

The Common Law was developed to cement the reign of William the Conqueror, yes. But it did so by imposing a single source of justice to which both lords and peasants could appeal. Previously the law had been tied to the local lord and their whims and philosophies. William replaced many of these Lords with his own allies and nobles, and he replaced their laws in the same action. He recognised that if his new laws did not please the peasants, they would join a revolt against him led by deposed nobility.

In this respect he showed his understanding of a common historical pattern: want to depose the nobles? Be kind to the common folk.

Furthermore, you have implied that the Common Law was vomited out in its entirety in 1066, never again to be changed. This is manifestly untrue. The Common Law is dynamic, it changes. You also seem to think that the current age has some kind of monopoly on a sense of justice. This is also manifestly untrue. My general admiration for Common Law comes from its being constantly pushed forwards by good people. Sure, it started off in a limited fashion, with limited remedies. But it has evolved, so that today it is a pretty good system. It's had one thousand years to really thrash out a lot of issues. Anybody starting from scratch today would miss out a hell of a lot of important details if they didn't read Common Law - at which point, why replace it at all?

This point foreshadows your conclusion that:

Once could more reasonably argue for a complete redesign, and a cutover to a less buggy, broken system. The only reason I don't embrace such a recommendation with enthusiasm is that, in the present political climate, it's possible we could end up with something even more badly hosed. Better the devil you know.
There exist many countries where the Common Law does not exist as judges and lawyers in the Commonwealth and the USA understand it. Most of continental Europe uses some kind of Code-based Law, where (at least in theory) everything you need to know about the law is to be found in a single document (the Code). Japan also has a code-based system of law.

I do agree with you that now would be a bad time to move to a code-based system of law (not that any time is a good one :). Ironically, it will be this "buggy, broken system" that will be your best defense against the encroachment on freedom of legislative exuberance.

It ain't perfect. But it's pretty darn good, and as I said above, people give the Common Law far too little credit.

--
Well now. We seem to be temporarily out of sigs here at the sig factory. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.
[ Parent ]

New Code Base? He he (4.50 / 2) (#97)
by czolgosz on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 02:41:01 PM EST

Fascinating reply, we're veering off-topic but the issues are quite interesting.
How can you on the one hand imply that you don't know what the "status quo" is, and on the other, then say that the Common Law is hopelessly antiquated? But I am nitpicking.

I was saying that your argument could apply equally to any status quo, regardless of what it is, not that I was unaware of the actual status quo (though since I'm a system designer, not a lawyer, my expertise is not that of a highly-trained practicioner).
More substantively, and showing that you are somewhat educated in this respect:
The "noble tradition of Anglo-Saxon law" was originally developed to maintain the dominance of a predatory, foreign ruling class (um, remember the Normans? Ever wonder why barristers had to learn Law French until very recently?) and to rob and cheat the little guy-- is this really what we need now?
What, and the local nobles were angels, I suppose?
Probably not. And the ancient principle of "divide and rule" (far predating the Norman) can indeed be cited as the seed from which the doctrine of separation of powers grew. But the equally important doctrine of limitation of powers was controversial until at least the English Civil Wars, and sporadically after that. And the echoes of the arguments for the "Royal prerogative" are still used to justify repression.
Furthermore, you have implied that the Common Law was vomited out in its entirety in 1066, never again to be changed. This is manifestly untrue.

You are correct, so it's a good thing I didn't say it. Hence my "millennium of cruft" comment: "cruft" being the incremental accumulation of features (and bugs) in a long-running system. Think of coral on a shipwreck.
The Common Law is dynamic, it changes. You also seem to think that the current age has some kind of monopoly on a sense of justice. This is also manifestly untrue.

I am sure that at least some contributors to the Common Law tradition had a sense of justice, most typically framed in religious terms tinged with opportunism. But I doubt if the implicit assumptions in (say) a Plantagenet Lord Chancellor's sense of justice would have much in common with those of anyone living in a representative system of government today.
My general admiration for Common Law comes from its being constantly pushed forwards by good people. Sure, it started off in a limited fashion, with limited remedies. But it has evolved, so that today it is a pretty good system. It's had one thousand years to really thrash out a lot of issues. Anybody starting from scratch today would miss out a hell of a lot of important details if they didn't read Common Law - at which point, why replace it at all?
Well, you've made two points: in any complex system that has been in use for an extended period, you can find some design principles and features that are worth keeping. No doubt about that. But then there are also a number of other, less worthwhile features that you have to put up with.
This point foreshadows your conclusion that: One could more reasonably argue for a complete redesign, and a cutover to a less buggy, broken system. The only reason I don't embrace such a recommendation with enthusiasm is that, in the present political climate, it's possible we could end up with something even more badly hosed. Better the devil you know. There exist many countries where the Common Law does not exist as judges and lawyers in the Commonwealth and the USA understand it.
The Code derives from surprisingly brief period of all-nighters by a certain Mr. Bonaparte, if I recall. Though the distinction between inquisitorial and adversarial approaches to fact-finding might be more fundamental in distinguishing Anglo-Saxon from continental law.
I do agree with you that now would be a bad time to move to a code-based system of law (not that any time is a good one :). Ironically, it will be this "buggy, broken system" that will be your best defense against the encroachment on freedom of legislative exuberance.
That was the point of my sardonic observation that it's probably better not to mess with it right now. It's a horrendous kludge, but at least its inertia is a limited defense against the current craze for authoritarianism, secret decisions, and general lack of accountability.
It ain't perfect. But it's pretty darn good, and as I said above, people give the Common Law far too little credit.
Well, I like parts of it too. But my gripe was with your logic more than with the system itself. The problem with precedent is that you can find a precedent for nearly everything. To say that a system has evolved, and in evolving, has come closer to perfection, is to ascribe a purpose to evolution. Yes, it may well be true that Common Law is better now than it was before. But this does not necessarily support the assertion that the system self-corrected-- perhaps the improvements were forcibly imposed on it instead, and its practicioners adapted it so they could keep their jobs (e.g., after the American revolution). There's something specious about the teleological assertion that (for example) the current legal system is the culmination of a thousand years of progressive improvement. One could, with as much logical justification, assert that the current Iraqi regime is the culmination of several millennia of Middle Eastern cultural advancement. Urgh, I'm sure they can do better than that.

Retrospectively, it's always possible to find precedents, and to claim a progression of increasing refinement and perfection from lemur to ape to caveman to Enron executive. If you think of evolution as a tree, then all that's saying is that from any branch you can see a path back to the root, and that you've defined the near end as better than the far end. With man-made systems, the challenge is to prune those branches wisely. And (here I agree with you) great prudence is needed when you take out the clippers, and even more when you replant. Consider the UK's recent restriction of the right to silence and trial by jury, or the US's gutless abandonment of habeas corpus in response to the terrorist outrages. But in my business, the "it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument is often propounded by those who benefit from the anomalies of the present system, regardless of its actual state of brokenness. It appears that it works this way in politics and the law as well as in engineering.

I've gone on at length, for which I apologize. But at the core of this debate lie some deep issues surrounding conservatism, incremental reform and radical change. These might be of broader interest than the immediate starting point of our discussion.
Why should I let the toad work squat on my life? --Larkin
[ Parent ]
hah (none / 0) (#24)
by Goatmaster on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:39:23 PM EST

.7 to 1.0 grams of protein per pound of body weight? That's pretty wasteful since your body can only effectively use 4.0 to ~6.0 grams of protein a day. The rest just leaves via the urine and contributes to kidney problems.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
addendum (none / 0) (#25)
by Goatmaster on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:43:30 PM EST

the 4 to 6 grams is how much is actually absorbed and used. You do have to eat more since your digestive tract doesn't work at 100%. This falls into the 20 - 30 gram range, depending on the person. But .7 - 1.0 grams/pound is dangerously excessive.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
[ Parent ]
Where Do You Get That From? (4.50 / 2) (#28)
by thelizman on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 07:51:24 PM EST

The idea that protein is dangerous is about as apt as saying SUV's spontaneously flip over. While excess protein consumption can have dire effects on people with kidney ailments, there is no such thing as it being dangerous so long as it is part of a healthy diet. Most people who suffer the ill effects of ketolysis (which is actually what does the kidney damage - not the protein itself) also do not drink enough water to stay hydrated.

This isn't the time or place to discuss it, but the anit-meat and anti-fat myths are the result of some very bad scientific thinking and piss-poor research that went on in the 70's. Now, if the 70's gave us gas guzzlers, international terrorism, bell bottoms, PCBs, 3 Mile Island, Richard Nixon, and Charro, you should question everything that came out of that era.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
protein (4.00 / 1) (#32)
by ucblockhead on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 08:04:59 PM EST

You are right that as long as you aren't doing something stupid like one of those 100% protein diets and stay hydrated, you aren't risking kidney damage. However, it is true (and proven) that any protein that the body doesn't need for immediate use in building tissues is converted to sugar (which is used for energy) and urea (which is dumped out in urine). The body has no way of storing protein for later use. Because of this, beyond a certain point, eating more protein is pointless. For those eating a modern American diet, that point is likely only reached by hard-core weightlifters. Frankly, those protein powders are usually a rip-off. You are better off eating a protein rich food.

Those pure protein diets that were a fad a while back are dangerous because the body is forced to burn nothing but protein, which produces a lot of urea, which is hard on the kidneys. But obviously that doesn't have much to do with meat because few hard-core meateaters eat quite that much meat.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

It's pretty well documented (3.00 / 1) (#36)
by Goatmaster on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 08:50:06 PM EST

Both before, during, and after the 1970s that too much protein is 'dangerous'. It's not immediately and seriously toxic kind of dangerous, but it's not good for you overall. No need to consume more than your body will use. See ucblockhead's response.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
[ Parent ]
well documented? (none / 0) (#112)
by topsirloin on Thu Sep 26, 2002 at 09:42:02 AM EST

Then you should have no problem coughing up some medline studies.

Or you could go read this:

http://www.brinkzone.com/protein.html

[ Parent ]

4-6? (none / 0) (#50)
by Phantros on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:21:43 AM EST

4 to 6 grams? That doesn't sound right. 1 to 2 ounces of crackers gives you that much. I had thought the value for a 2,000 calorie diet to be 50 grams, so perhaps you meant 40 to 60?

However, .7 to 1 gram per pound of body weight sounds a little excessive, especially for heavier people.

4Literature - 2,000 books online and Scoop to discuss them with
[ Parent ]

yes really (none / 0) (#56)
by Goatmaster on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 03:58:52 AM EST

Recall what you eat in raw weight isn't necessarily what your digestive system actually absorbs. However, it's a fairly simple calculation given the surface area of the intestine and the absorption ratio, as well as the amino acid concentrations that can be carried in the bloodstream.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
[ Parent ]
Oh? (4.00 / 2) (#59)
by evilpenguin on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:06:44 AM EST

In high school, several of my friends were rather hard-core weightlifters (they went to the gym everyday, made sure they ate what they needed to, etc).  Not wanting to be a tallow weakling, I would go with them three or four times a week.

After the initial gains in the amount of weight I could lift in various exercises subsided, I noticed that I wasn't really building more muscle nor was I able to increase the weight much.  At the time, I was only getting (maybe) 80 grams of protien a day.  I read some article online which furthered my curiosity.  It came up with the figure of around 1.2 to 1.6 times your body weight in pounds.  So I asked my friends, who weighed about 150-160 lbs, how much they got.  The average was about 170-190 grams of protien.  This was more than double what I got!

So I bought some whey protien powder and started drinking it twice a day.  Mixed in a cup of milk, each "shake" provides about 70 grams of protien at 380 calories (depending on how much you use, you could also mix it as 50 grams, 220 calories).  With this, I got about 170 grams per day.  I started noticing the difference after a week when I was able to increase the weight I lift significantly.  In addition, the extra protien did wonders for my knees, which would slightly hurt after a (5 mile) run.  No more.  After sevral weeks I've noticed increases in the areas I was trying to build that probably would have taken months otherwise, if they were even at all possible sans protien suppliments.

You say that my body can only use 4 - 6 grams per day, but I'll have you know that's complete bullshit.  You don't have to believe me, and this practice is often discredited by doctors who won't believe anything that's uncouth to their collegues, but my experience tells me that if you are actually working out, your body _can_ use the extra protien.  Try it.
--
# nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
[ Parent ]

that's the way it is (2.00 / 1) (#71)
by Goatmaster on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 11:21:12 AM EST

In your case, it may be that your body is unusually inefficient at absorbing protein from the gut so you did have to increase the dietary levels to insane amounts. There's always someone that breaks the general rules.

What you have to remember is, muscle is 75% water, so if your body was using all that protein, you'd be gaining ~.75 kilos of muscle a day. Of course this is not realistic.

Your protein powders are a good way to make expensive urine, the only reason they make you seem to gain weight is that they tend to contain large amounts of urea (and of course, your body makes it trying to break down so much protein), and commonly contains other metabolic waste (creatine monoxide anyone?). These make you retain water. You gain weight in interstitial water. No advantage there.

You know, doctors actually do know what they're doing when they tell you it doesn't work. Anyone with a little bio or chem under their belts can tell you that too. There's only one way to cheat to get muscles and that's androgen supplementation, and that has its own nasty side effects.


... and so the Goatmaster has spoken
[ Parent ]
Lifting (none / 0) (#72)
by ucblockhead on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 11:34:56 AM EST

It's because you were lifting. The whole point of lifting is obviously the creation of lots of muscle tissue, which in turn requires lots of protein.

This is an unusual situation for the body. No other exercise (including running) concentrates soley on building up muscle, so no other exercise has anywhere near the protein requirements.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Protein == Calories (none / 0) (#116)
by Bryan Larsen on Thu Oct 24, 2002 at 06:52:21 PM EST

That protein shake may not be all that useful in terms of protein, but it probably added quite a few calories to your diet. Your body can't add muscle without excess calories. Many people recommend that you eat so much that you end up putting on a little bit of fat along with the muscles. After you have bulging muscles, your resulting high calorie requirements will make it easy to take off that fat. Most people don't eat enough when lifting weight.

[ Parent ]
How timely for me! (4.00 / 2) (#35)
by Timwit on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 08:41:33 PM EST

+1 for relevancy to my life.

I have a tendon injury with associated anterior compartment syndrom--this is a repetetive stress injury often confused with shin splints (I got it from walking a very long way in flip-flops). I'm an active guy but I've been sidelined for eight weeks with this damn thing. Oh well, at least I've had plenty of time to hack, since I can't do anything outside on the weekend.

Yet another. . . (4.00 / 2) (#40)
by IHCOYC on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 09:12:11 PM EST

. . . I tried to do something good for myself, and took up swimming regularly over the summer.

Now I have a dose of Pseudomonas in my feet. I thought it was just an ugly case of athlete's foot, and tried to fix it with creams. It got so that I showed it to a doctor, and he told me I belonged in a hospital.

Learned my lesson, I did.

GraySkull is home to the anima, the all-knowing woman who gives power to the otherwise ineffectual man. -- Jeff Coleman

On behalf of occasional swimmers everywhere (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by cavalier on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 10:53:54 AM EST

Now I have a dose of Pseudomonas in my feet. I thought it was just an ugly case of athlete's foot, and tried to fix it with creams. It got so that I showed it to a doctor, and he told me I belonged in a hospital.
.. what the heck are/is pseudomonas? The top few links on google returned a bacteria on a gecko and a lamp test for it. On behalf of part time swimmers and amateur hypochondriacs everywhere.. eek!

[ Parent ]
some links... (none / 0) (#73)
by xiox on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 11:43:11 AM EST

Here are some links I found. It appears to be a serious bacterium associated with surgery or puncture wounds which may cause post burn sepsis, bacteremia, septicemia, otitis media, meningitis, pneumonia, and other infections.

www.medmedia.com some pictures more info

[ Parent ]

Another link (none / 0) (#84)
by IHCOYC on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 03:16:10 PM EST

Some of those seem to be broken but the emedicine site seems to treat this fairly comprehensively. What it seems befell me was that I have chronically dry skin, and the bug got into that between my toes. I thought the blisters it was making there were athlete's foot, and kept trying store-boughten sprays on it to no effect.

This was the first time, and hopefully the last, that athlete's foot sent me to the hospital.

GraySkull is home to the anima, the all-knowing woman who gives power to the otherwise ineffectual man. -- Jeff Coleman
[ Parent ]

Pronation, Supination and Leg/Foot Health (4.66 / 3) (#41)
by HidingMyName on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 09:30:34 PM EST

I thought Pronation during running meant that one runs on the inner edge of the foot (on the big toe). I tend to pronate when I run, and needed to carefully pick my running shoes (I need to go back into it, right now my only running is chasing my young daughter). I think pronation is more common, in my case I'm naturally a bit pidgeon-toed, some people have the complementary problem (supination), which is manifest by running on the outer edge of the foot. Also, I like the Timothy Noakes book The Lore of Running as providing a helpful guide to health issues associated with running. Noakes comes from Cape Town (South Africa has a very good Medical Education System, and Cape Town is probably tops for Sports Medicine).

Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by John Miles on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 03:52:28 PM EST

I don't know where he came up with this "pronation == leaning forward" stuff. The other problem I have with what he wrote is that he's encouraging people to overstride. If there's one sure way to get shin splints, it's making your feet land in front of your body's center of gravity when you're running. The "folklore" that works for me is to try to maintain a pace of about 180 steps per minute (=30 every ten seconds, for easier counting), no matter how fast you're running. That will automatically tend to optimize your stride length to avoid shin splints. It may be hard to move your feet that quickly at first, but it quickly starts to feel natural.

For so long as men do as they are told, there will be war.
[ Parent ]
Good Point, Downhill running a big culprit (none / 0) (#96)
by HidingMyName on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 12:26:23 PM EST

People often overstride on the downhill. I find running downhill is the hardest on my shins. Running stairs instead of downhill when possible helps (but many places I run don't have substantial stairs).

[ Parent ]
Here's a hint: (3.00 / 2) (#48)
by Quick Star on Fri Sep 20, 2002 at 11:33:38 PM EST

When participating in a martial arts tourny, ALWAYS remember to twist the hips when punching so as to avoind tearing your labrium (shoulder part) which is both very painful and a PITA to fix.

"absolutely no one can sex a lobster without cutting it open" -- rusty

Well (none / 0) (#51)
by tjb on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:34:39 AM EST

Not so much a comment as a question, since we're talking about exercise:

How do you prevent mucle cramps?

I've kept the same regimen for a while now, and I've gotten to the point where I can do about 200 pushups in ~15 minutes (about 75 in the first set and then numerous smaller sets until I'm exhausted, I do this 2 or 3 times/week).  It feels great, and its one hell of a work-out, but the next day I get terrible muscle cramps in my chest (the first time, it scared the hell out of me, intense chest-pain like that is not fun).  I run as well, but I don't get the same problems in my legs.  I've made a point to drink lots of orange juice and grapefruit-juice, but that doesn't seem to help.

Any suggestions?

Tim

Could be diet or temperature (4.00 / 1) (#54)
by HidingMyName on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 02:45:05 AM EST

If memory serves, conventional wisdom says that Potassium/Magnesium depletion can bring on cramping. Others say sodium depletion is more important. However, after sweating I crave salt, so salt depletion is not a likely culprit in my case (however, I don't like bananas, which are potassium rich, so perhaps I'm a bit short on potassium). I've found that when I go anaerobic I am susceptible to cramping afterwards, so recovery matters. Also I find that temperature matters, if it gets cool (say below 60 Fahrenheit) I need long pants to avoid leg cramps when running.

[ Parent ]
Stretching (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by Draken on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 09:08:05 AM EST

In the past, I have had regular cramps after exercise.

This is always after strenuous exercise where I have not stretched.

(FYI, I am an Australian Rules football umpire. Lots of running in every game!)

With your cases of extreme push ups, I would suggest that you are most likely not stretching the muscles that later cramp. Although I do not know how to stretch chest muscles, I directly credit avoiding cramp by stretching, before and after exercise. Perhaps you could lower you push up load and use another exercise that exercises your muscles slightly differently?

[ Parent ]
Easy (5.00 / 1) (#94)
by thelizman on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:42:19 PM EST

Craps are caused mainly by failing to stretch, and failing to hydrate. Less commonly, it is caused by a depletion of your electrolytes. If you excercise for an hour or more a day, or in high heat, you need to replace electrolytes particularly salt. That's the hyponetremia part. Here in the Sonoran Desert, I routinely worked out in temperatures up to 115 degrees (but hey, it's a dry heat :P ), and I rarely suffered cramps. When you live in the desert, it only takes one case of heat exhaustion before you learn to drink pure water by the liter and love it.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
wrt form (none / 0) (#53)
by tiberius on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:56:56 AM EST

i do not see what is so bad about pumping your arms while running. generally, when i run, i almost go out of my way to pump my arms hard. the reason for this is partially for timing (count half a second, punch forward) but mostly for motivation.

also, it all has to do with what your real motive is when you are running. if your goal is to run further and faster, then i agree with your method. however, if, like myself, your motive is to lose weight, then pumping your arms will only help since it obviously burns calories.



The reason (none / 0) (#55)
by Stick on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 03:32:52 AM EST

You look silly.


---
Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
[ Parent ]
Wrist weights (none / 0) (#77)
by evilpenguin on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 12:42:45 PM EST

In addition, you can go get a pair of wrist weights, which really do make a difference if your goal is to increase muscle tone.

The only problem I see with these is when people who've never ran with weights before go and buy a set of 15- or 10-lbs weights.  They don't realize just how heavy those few pounds more can be after 30 minutes, and as a result they will usually either stop after 5 minutes to take them off, cut their entire workout short because of the added strain, or (worst case) let their form and stride deteriorate.

My concern when I first bought a pair was that they would put too much pressure on my wrists, in which I already am experiencing the joys of CTS.  They will only do this if you let your arms dangle and flail to the whims of gravity.  If you maintain your form, the pressure will be on your arm (where it's supposed to be).
--
# nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
[ Parent ]

Conservation of Energy (none / 0) (#93)
by thelizman on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:39:32 PM EST

If you are running, you only want to use the muscles that you need to run. Pumping your arms wastes energy to start. More importantly, it's bad form - unless you're sprinting, pumping your arms just places additional stress on your trunk. It's wasteful, simply put. Running itself will do more to excercise you, don't mess it up by pumping your arms. If you don't believe me, watch real runners who are in shape, compete, and have better times than you. Chances are real good they'll be running like barney rubble until they go flat out.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Whoops. (none / 0) (#57)
by pmc on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 05:40:03 AM EST

"Anterior Crucial Ligament"??? It's "Cruciate". It is, for some reason, a common mistake.

Until it snaps.... (none / 0) (#79)
by Silver222 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:19:06 PM EST

And then you realize just how crucial it is :)

[ Parent ]
It may be excruciatingly painfull though (nt) (none / 0) (#104)
by Curieus on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 06:30:30 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Is obesity the alternative of excercise? (none / 0) (#60)
by levsen on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:35:29 AM EST

I am currently on a weight-loss diet under supervision from my doctor, and of course I discussed excercise with him. The truth is, he says, that the body uses 80% of it's energy for keeping the temperature at 37 centigrades and 20% for physical activities of every day life, such as walking from the couch to the fridge. If you're athletic this share will maybe increase to 25%. On top of that, your body adapts to a higher need of calories by taking more out of them out of what you eat. Those calories do not come out of body fat but had preciously been dumped by your body. This all conforms to the theory that's gaining a lot of popularity that just counting calories has nothing to do with your metabolism. (Montaignac, Atkins).

This is not saying that excercise is not good for you, but it does not prevent obesity.


This comment is printed on 100% recycled electrons.

Sorry (none / 0) (#61)
by levsen on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:42:20 AM EST

It uses 80% of its energy of course ... stress at work I guess.
This comment is printed on 100% recycled electrons.
[ Parent ]
Thats for normal, everyday activities. (none / 0) (#65)
by Vader82 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 09:42:59 AM EST

I've been losing weight this whole summer, from 220 down to 190 and still dropping. I didn't run, I biked.  60 miles a week by riding 20 mile rides 3 times a week.  Once I was in decent cardio shape I was only riding for about 75 minutes, and that was on a mountain bike.

I've done a fair bit of research into how many calories I burned normally and how many calories extra I burned while biking and the results are interesting.  THe average "you need this many calories a day to maintain your weight" was about 2000-2200, and riding my bike usually increased the amount of calories I burned to 3000-3500 depending on the length of the ride.  So on bike days I could expend over 1/3 of my daily calorie use just by biking, much less walking to class, to the fridge, playing video games, posting to k5, etc.

While your statement that athletic activity might only boost it to 25% what it fails to mention is that the total amount of calories burned also goes up and so there is significant benefit.
Need food? Like sharing? http://reciphp.vader82.net/
[ Parent ]

Preventing obesity (none / 0) (#80)
by der on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 01:21:09 PM EST

This is not saying that excercise is not good for you, but it does not prevent obesity.

Maybe exercise doesn't totally prevent obesity, but it can come pretty close. If you exercise alot (both cardio like running and something more anabolic like weight lifting), it's pretty damn hard to become obese. Becoming obese just isn't an appropriate response for your body to have if you're very active.

Speaking from personal experience, you can eat basically all you want (quantity-wise) if you work out enough, and not get very much fatter, and certainly not obese.



[ Parent ]
True, and Not True (4.50 / 2) (#92)
by thelizman on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:35:20 PM EST

You cannot excercise yourself to thinness - you simply cannot burn enough energy in a practical workout period to make up for a poor diet. However, excercise increases other aspects of your health that directly affect obesity. Diet and excercise go hand in hand, and if you don't do one, you won't stick to the other. I often found myself eating right because I could'nt justify workout out three hours then eating chocolate cake.

What you doctor told you is true to a point. On a normal diet, the vast majority of your intake goes to fueling the normal running of the body. But even if you're only 20% over, that 20% very quickly adds up. A good diet uses up all the energy your food provides so that the body has to go to its stores of energy. That doesn't mean starvation mind you - it means making sure that your body isn't getting cheap quick energy like sugars, starches, and simple carbs.

Another reason not to negate excercise - a lb of muscle burns about 30 calories just by maintaining tone in a day. When you excercise, you do two things: You improve muscle tone, and add more muscle.

Obesity and sedantarism are two parts of the same problem - unhealthy lifestyles.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Not a big fan of running per se (4.00 / 1) (#64)
by Incabulos on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 09:42:14 AM EST

It doesnt do your knees and ankles a hell of a lot of good, and when done badly will make you sore in places you didnt know could even experience pain before.

I prefer a brisk sustained walk, you get the muscle workout in your legs, plus the cardio fitness benefit too. When you can maintain a hard pace up a reasonably steep long incline without your muscles going to jelly, and without running out of steam, you have got it made.

Theres nothing I like more than hitting the trails in the national parks around where I live on a sunny spring afternoon. Getting away from people, noise and distraction and imersing oneself in nature and the rhythm of your pace is very theraputic in a mental sense too.

I found running necessary (none / 0) (#70)
by p3d0 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 10:57:11 AM EST

I wanted to loose some weight about two years ago, so I started running. That, combined with moderation in my diet, worked wonders, and after a few months, I was losing about a pound a week over a period of about 25 weeks, and I felt great.

Then last year I ended up stopping running and relaxing my diet for six months or so, during which time I put back on all the weight. When I got back into exercising, I tried a number of exercises, up to the elliptical machine at a high level of intensity (heart rate over 175 for 30 minutes) and it has had no effect on my weight at all. Subjectively, the elliptical machine feels much easier than running, no matter how high a heart rate I choose. I finally gave in and returned to running a few weeks ago, and I can feel the difference already. I expect to start losing weight some time in the next several weeks.

For me, running is the only thing intense enough to make a difference in my weight. After a few months, when my weight has reached a reasonable level, I may find that I can back off and do the elliptical machine instead to maintain my weight. I hope that is true because (as you say) running is stressful on the body, and the elliptical machine is much less so.

Finally, there's something to be said for mental exercise. Whether it's running or the elliptical machine, exercising at a high level of intensity for that long is not much fun, and it takes concentration and will power to get through it.
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
[ Parent ]

Microfractures (none / 0) (#66)
by p3d0 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 10:22:25 AM EST

Thanks for the info on microfractures. I thought I had shin splints until I read this, but they mostly hurt after I finish running, and the pressing-with-your-thumb test showed that it hurt in just one place.

When it gets bad, I go from the treadmill to the elliptical machine. I get a comparable workout, with very little impact.

I'm going to look up microfractures to see if I can find more info.
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.

Here's a link (none / 0) (#82)
by p3d0 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 02:06:24 PM EST

Here's a link that mentions microfractures.
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
[ Parent ]
Editorial (none / 0) (#67)
by p3d0 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 10:34:55 AM EST

Another cause of osteochondritis is mechanical...
I think you meant "chondromalacia" here.
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
Plantar Fascitis (4.00 / 1) (#68)
by dachshund on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 10:38:31 AM EST

This is the bane of my particular existence. It's basically an inflammation of the long tendon that runs from the heel out to the toes on both of my feet. It comes and goes, at its own whim.

Fortunately, I was finally able to find a podiatrist who was willing to do more than just prescribe useless anti-inflammitories, an now I'm benefitting from regular ultrasound and electric-shock (!), which seem to make a big difference.

If you run, run carefully and do lots and lots of stretching before and after.

Plantar Fasciitis (none / 0) (#88)
by goodwine on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 07:31:21 PM EST

I've been suffering from it for almost 18 months. Orthodics have helped, but my doctor told me that once you have it, you are pretty much stuck with it for life. I have cronic shin splints, and can say with certainty that, at least in my case, they pale in comparison to this foot injury.

It's an inflammation, so anti-inflamitories help, as do calf stretches. But, unfortunately, drugs, proper stretching and shoe inserts have only reduced the pain, not eliminated it.

Of course, the net effect is that I have to run less; therefore, I have gained some weight. This, of course exaserbates the injury since running is consequently more stressful on my feet, so I have to run even less, which (due to my lack of dietary discipline) makes me fatter, etc., etc., etc.,

Bottom line: this injury sucks.

[ Parent ]

Agree and disagree (none / 0) (#106)
by puppet10 on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 09:35:49 PM EST

I agree completely that plantar fascitis really sucks big time.  I got it from hiking a lot (along occasional knee and ankle soreness).

What I don't agree with is that it never goes away - however it did seem to take forever though, about 12-18 months.  I had to stop hiking during that time (which was pretty much obvious since at the beginning I was limping because of the pain), and also underwent a terribly annoying and hateful period of physical therapy twice a week for almost a year (I hated physical therapy because the exercises were not pleasant, but I'm glad I did it because I'm totally free of any pain now).

The therapy consisted of icing, followed by ultrasound treatments, along with stretches and exercises designed to help the tendon involved (all the exercises were only started after the inflamation was under control and slowly ramped up  in intensity).

However its probably arguable that I'm more suseptible to a relapse than someone who hasn't ever had it - and I don't really know how serious my particular instance compares with others - ie I limped for a month or two but never needed crutches or aything.

I also am still doing the stretching and on the floor under my desk I have two 2" wooden balls that I roll my feet around on which also helps (as long as there isn't any current inflamation).

[ Parent ]

Hehe (2.00 / 1) (#75)
by dzeroo on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 11:50:55 AM EST

he said 'butt'.

(great article)


== chicks are for fags ==


Some nitpicking (none / 0) (#83)
by Rogerborg on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 02:53:20 PM EST

The title is misleading: it should have been "running", not "exercise".  And the best way to not get running damage is not to run.

Second, it's also completely clearly erroneous.  Ask Douglas Adams.

Nice article on running though.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs

Fitness != Running long distances (4.00 / 1) (#101)
by eggnog on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 12:00:19 AM EST

Endurance is but one part of being "in shape".  It irks me to no end to see people at work coo about how "fit" the marathon runners are every Patriot's Day (I work in Boston).  I see these people who can run forever as being in no better shape than people who can flip over cars, meaning they have an imbalanced fitness level.  My mother spent a few years with distance running and actually had trouble opening doors she was so weak, despite the fact that she could run further than I even want to drive.  I even proposed a competition to a runner once that I run a mile carrying him and he runs a mile carrying me and fastest wins :)

[ Parent ]
my exercise problem (none / 0) (#85)
by cowscows on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 03:26:20 PM EST

I've been doing some daily exercise, consisting of at least some pushups and pullups since the beginning of the summer. Starting a couple weeks ago, any time I do anything physically strenuous, I get a really bad throbbing headache like in the back of my head. It starts like 30 seconds into whatever workout I'm doing. Walking up enough stairs to break a sweat will usually cause the headache as well. I've tried ignoring it and seeing if I could work through it, but it just gets worse. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes after I stop doing whatever before it goes away. I have no idea what causes it, and I've been to busy to go get it checked out, so I've just stopped exercising for now. Which makes me feel crummier in general. Blah. Anyone got any ideas?

--
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Ooh, pick me! (none / 0) (#87)
by Banjonardo on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 06:21:27 PM EST

I have an idea!

See a doctor. Seriously.


I like Muffins. MOLDY muffins.
[ Parent ]

What The Other Dude Said (none / 0) (#91)
by thelizman on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:28:09 PM EST

Go see a doctor. This sounds serious, and I don't want to be the one to tell you why. It may also turn out to be something benign. Make sure you're not holding your breath - that's a big one and most people don't realize they are doing it.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Call the Doctor (none / 0) (#113)
by Peat on Sat Sep 28, 2002 at 10:13:04 AM EST

I had the same problem, so I went to see a doctor.  He said I needed to drink a lot more water, and gave me some magnesium.  Lo and behold, no more headaches.

It could be anything.  I know someone who had the same symptoms, but for completely different reasons.  He had terrible posture, and I guess something started pinching in one of his vertebrae when his heart rate went up.  His doc told him to roll around on swedish balls each morning (stretches things out, rather nice to tell the truth), and he went out and brought a proper chair for his desk.  A month later, no problems.

Anyhow.  Doctors are there for a reason.  Get in touch with one.  :)

bigbluebang internet services - hosting, consulting, tools, and more.
[ Parent ]

actually, it went away (none / 0) (#114)
by cowscows on Sat Sep 28, 2002 at 11:08:51 AM EST

a couple days after I posted that entry about my headaches, I went to a friends house where they had just gotten one of those big trampolines. We had a little party and throughout the night I probably spent a total of 3 hours jumping on the trampoline, and working up quite a sweat while doing it. After I got home, I realized that although that was the most exercise I had gotten in probably a month, I had no headache! So over the next few days, I slowly worked myself back into my excercise routine, with no problems. It's been all good since then :)

But yeah, if it comes back, I'll go by the health center.

--
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
[ Parent ]

Worse than shin splints (none / 0) (#89)
by skim123 on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:17:59 PM EST

Is turning your ankle, which I've done far too many times in the past 5 years of playing basketball. Nothing like coming down with all your weight and landing on the side of another guy's foot, so that your ankle just buckles underneath the weight of your body rushing toward the ground and 32 ft per second per second. Shin splints may be annoying and painful, but at least they subside when you're through playing. A bad turned ankle can leave you limping for days or weeks, even when you do "take care of it" by icing it down, keeping it elevated, etc.

Of course, I'd imagine turned ankles are nothing compared to torn ACLs.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


use RICE (none / 0) (#108)
by hugues on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 03:39:39 AM EST

If you do turn your ankle so bad that you actually get a sprain (torn ligament) this can be very painful. In that case use RICE

Rest
Ice (20 minutes every 2h)
Compression (bandage)
Elevation (sit or lay down and put your ankle on a stool).

A great sprain can take weeks to mend, can be very impressive (blue and brown from toe to knee, ankle triples in volume), and is no fun.

If that happens to you, do not walk on it if you can and get an X-ray for a potential fracture.

[ Parent ]

pain + fear = no exercise (4.00 / 1) (#90)
by blisspix on Sat Sep 21, 2002 at 08:19:52 PM EST

I used to be a semi-competitive figure skater until I was 19. I'd love to start up again now (I'm 23) but I really fear the pain that will come with it.

If you think pain from running is bad, try the complete and utter agony you get from skating. Skating works muscles you didn't know you had, your inner thighs, lower back, arm, shoulders and everywhere else. It is an excellent way to develop muscle tone, especially in the quads, and to trim your butt and stomach.

Unsurprisingly however, skaters are prone to injury. All those big jumps can lead to big falls. At least when you fall, you slide on the ice. It was however, good for my back.

And what better motivator to excerise and get fit when you're wearing nothing but a teenie-tiny leotard and a little skirt!

Impact injuries; cycling (none / 0) (#98)
by phliar on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 03:34:41 PM EST

I used to run in my undergrad days. Alas, running on pavement is not too good for the knees, I found. To complicate matters I have gouty arthritis so my knees and ankles get hurt easily. I switched to road cycling. The really good thing about cycling is that since your feet are locked into the pedals, and there is no wear on your shoes to disturb things, your knees and ankles articulate in good form with no twisting, assuming your bike is well fitted. And, of course, no impact injuries.

I read somewhere that cycling is the most effective exercise. Most people, of course, just dawdle along on their bikes, riding on cute little bike paths with their kids. With good position and form, with a little help from a heart monitor, a fit person will burn about 600 Calories an hour. And then you get sucked into road racing -- a wonderful sport completely unlike any running race.

I also enjoy backcountry skiing (telemark). This is excellent exercise but if you fall, the binding does not release, and you're usually on deep snow that causes all kinds of horrible twisting of the knees. One fall partially ruptured my ACL. The "interesting" part of the exercise was having to ski back to the car on the bum knee. I realised the only way to do it would be to get it done before the endorphins wore off!

The combination of the gouty arthritis and the skiing falls (which required much arthroscopic surgery) meant my knees were too painful for anything. A friend convinced me to start taking chondroitin glucosamine about six months ago. I don't know if it's the placebo effect at work, but today my knees feel much better, and I have dusted off my road bike.

The poll lacks a "cycling" option.


Faster, faster, until the thrill of...

stretch(nt) (none / 0) (#99)
by Weakon on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 10:37:49 PM EST



Something to help avoid shin splints (none / 0) (#100)
by eggnog on Sun Sep 22, 2002 at 11:51:22 PM EST

Reverse calf presses are probably the least seen excercise in any gym, but they are excellent in avoiding shin splints, especially for average-heavy people.  Basically you get on the calf press machine (I prefer the standing one), and instead of pushing your heels up and down, you do the opposite.  Here is an excellent excercise site that has some animations of the various ways you can do this (any many other) excercises.

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/CalfWt.html

3 grams of salt per liter? (none / 0) (#105)
by Maurkov on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 12:45:34 PM EST

3 grams (about a tsp) per liter is excessive. Unless you're working out for two hours or more at a time, you probably won't need to supplement your sodium. If you are working out for two hours or more at a time, I hope you're not looking to K5 for all your fitness advice. From a sports coaching website:
The truth is that the human body needs very minute amounts of sodium to function normally. We need only 250 mg of sodium each day, athletes maybe 500 mg, which is easily supplied by natural, unprocessed foods. However, the average American consumes approximately 6000 to 7000 mg per day. The average athlete stores at least 8,000 mg of dietary sodium in tissues and has these stores available during exercise. Most athletes perform successfully using from 80-300 mg. sodium per hour in prolonged endurance events. Sodium is necessary but not by itself and not in mega-dose quantities.
Maurkov

A few tips from a recent exercise convert (5.00 / 2) (#107)
by RebornData on Mon Sep 23, 2002 at 11:23:34 PM EST

I'm 30, and until this summer I never had been able to stick with an exercise routine.  I had always thought running would be the best exercise for me -- my Mom was an avid runner throughout my childhood, there are theories that it causes more rapid fat loss that other exercises due to the fact that it is weight-bearing and your body will want to adapt, and the simple fact that it's one of the fastest ways to burn calories.  I've tried to start running maybe 5 or 6 times, but have always dropped it after a few weeks.

I broke this cycle this summer, and have been working out regularly (not running) for 4 months solid.  In the process learned a few things:

1. Pick an aerobic exercise that you enjoy.  Although I loved the idea of running, I hated the actual activity.  Rather than take a "no pain no gain" attitude, I found other things I like more.  This was easy to do: I tried those things I liked in my childhood, and discovered that I still do.  I now believe it's more important to pick things you can envision yourself doing for hours on end than "efficiency" and such.

2. Weight machines are really, really great for beginners.  Before, I'd read tons of Internet articles about how free weights are amazingly superior to weight machines.  That's absolutely true if you want to be Mr. Universe.  But they are *hard* to start out with.  But if you're just getting started with weights, for pete's sake get into the habit using machines first.  They let you get used to handling weight in a very safe way, and remove a lot of the uncertainty about "am I doing this right?"  Again, you might sacrifice some efficiency, but if your main problem is that you don't exercise, don't worry about that.  Instead, make it as easy as possible to exercise, and if you stick with it regularly, you will get results.

3. Track your progress.  There is nothing more motivating than seeing a steady progression of improvement.  If you can, find a facility with a "Fitlinxx" system... it not only will help you do the weight machines correctly, it will keep track of all of your weight and aerobic machine workouts for you and show you pretty graphs of how you're doing.  Lots of YMCAs are putting these in.  If you can't get a notebook with graph paper and note how many reps and how much weight you're doing for each exercise, and how much time and calories you burn in aerobic exercise.  Feed it into a spreadsheet, or do it by hand- you'll be suprised how quickly the lines start to point "up"!

4. Use a heart rate monitor for aerobic exercise.  Again, when you are getting started, one of the greatest barriers to success can be anxiety about whether you are working too hard or hard enough.  An HRM will tell you, and help you develop an intuitive understanding of what it "feels like" to be working out at the proper rate of exertion.  You don't actually have to buy one... lots of the exercise machines at health clubs have them built in, and will automatically adjust the difficulty of the workout according to your level of exertion.

5. Don't be afraid to "be a wimp".  Do what *you* need to feel secure and comfortable with beginning to push your physical limits.  The first time I went on a 20 mile bike ride, I packed enough food for a boy scout troop.  I didn't end up needing it and I felt dumb with the huge backpack compared to all the dedicated cyclists with skin-tight outfits and camelbacks, but I got through the ride.  I also ate more than I should have at the end, because I had "burned so many calories".  I learned pretty quickly that 90 minutes on a bike won't starve anyone, but I think it helped to be a "wimp" the first few times and realize that I had the potential within me to go further than I had thought possible before.

6. It gets a lot easier.  The first few times I worked out, I was wiped for the rest of the day.  Again, I was worried that I was doing something wrong, and felt betrayed by all those people claiming to "have more energy" after working out.  But guess what- that stopped happening, even as I began to push my limits even further.  So take it a little easy early on- don't be too eager to find your the limits of your endurance at first.  Get through the hump, and later on, you'll find that you'll be able to nearly exhaust yourself in a morning workout and still feel great the rest of the day.

Anyway, good luck!

Learn your body (none / 0) (#109)
by NoNeckJoe on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 01:29:34 PM EST

Supplement your traning with a martial art (tai-chi is a good place to start) or with a yoga practice (I gave up tai-chi in favor of Ashtanga).  You learn balance and breathing techniques, while improving the dynamic range of your muscles and strenghtening your core.

Cardiovascular weight circuit (none / 0) (#110)
by Wolf Keeper on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 03:19:20 PM EST

I do my strength training in a cardiovascular circuit.  I use machines, so I can set them up easily (just move the pin to the desired weight).

One set, 12 exercises, no more than 20 seconds between each exercise.  Total time, 15 minutes.  You can push yourself as hard as you want.  If you want it to last longer, add exercises or do some or all of them twice.  I often push myself hard enough to get my pulse at 180 (although that's probably just stupid).

Running, jogging, Tae Bo, aerobic dance, stairsteppers, rowing machines, walking, swimming, and pilates all bore me to death.  This, I enjoy... because you're not doing just one mind-numbing thing, and you occupy your mind by focusing to squeeze out as many more (perfect form, SAFE) repetitions as you can.

The only drawback is that you don't recover between exercises so it seems like you're getting weaker (you aren't).  If I did leg press and pulldowns first, I improved on leg press and pulldowns but stayed the same or got worse on everything else.  So the next time I would do chest press and hamstring curls first, only to do wonderfully on them and then lose a few repetitions on the leg press and pulldowns.  
    After I figured out how that worked, I simply rotated what I thought was important to the first spot.  Want to increase your legs?  Do calf raises and leg press first for three months and just try to maintain your current strength on the rest of your exercises.  Back?  Do pulldowns and pullovers first for a while.

I can't keep up with any serious runners, but I am thinner, stronger, and able to run much faster and farther than I could before I started the program.  Why do 'normal' cardio if you don't have to?

Inefficient American "Fitness" (none / 0) (#111)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Sep 26, 2002 at 02:54:33 AM EST

I'm surprised that in such a group of (supposedly) educated people, that there'd be such mention of running and other impact-inducing activities for fitness, especially since there's little reguard to things such as martial arts. (At least, I did not notice any such mention.)

Granted, many people see such things as 'violent', but there are martial arts that are nonagressive and  equally - if not more so - good for your body. Yoga is incredible for muscle toning and weight loss, as well as overall cardiovascular health. If you're more of the active type, and prefer violent-type stuff, non-American (examples of Americanized martial arts are American Tae Kwon Do, and - God forbid - KaiBo...) martial arts, if taught properly, retain a lot of grace and style that is much more overall beneficial, in addition to the purely wellness-related benefit. Your senses are more clear, your reflexes are faster, and your balance is more intune. Your entire posture will improve drastically, and (I've found) you feel many times better after a good martial arts workout than you would after an extensively exhaustive run.

Even if you don't opt for a more oriental form of exercise, you can at least balance your exercise routines. Some weight training, some cardiovascular, and various movement exercises to stay limber (limberness is the #1 perpetuator of youthful living).
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.

4 things required to build muscle (none / 0) (#117)
by Bryan Larsen on Thu Oct 24, 2002 at 06:56:16 PM EST

To put on muscle you need to

  1. exercise to the point of muscle exhaustion,

    In at least one of your sets, it must not be possible for you do to another rep

  2. eat a large healthy diet,

    Balanced, and with a large excess of calories

  3. get sufficient sleep,
  4. don't exercise too frequently.

    Muscle gains happen because you break down your muscle and then rebuild it. The rebuild process takes a couple of days, so if you work a specific muscle more than twice a week, you're giving it time to break down but not rebuild, unless you're on steroids. Since most Mr. Universe type builders are on steroids, you want to avoid their regimens.



Exercise Won't Kill You, It'll Hurt Though | 117 comments (96 topical, 21 editorial, 0 hidden)
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