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[P]
Third Trimester Report

By CheeseburgerBrown in Culture
Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 08:19:30 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

"The baby is coming today."

That is the sound of my wife calmly declaring that she was several hours into labour as she sat on the livingroom couch watching cartoons in the bright, slanted sunshine of the early morning. I had just woken up. I rubbed my eyes, tightened my robe, and felt a sudden urge to throw up.

In the months that have passed since I issued my first and second reports on our efforts to homebrew a fresh human being, I have become more at home with the idea of my imminent parenthood. None the less, nothing could prepare me for the terrifying rush of realising that that imminence was about to transform into immediacy.

The final showdown between infant and birth-canal is nigh: at long last, this is my Third Trimester Report.


The first trimester is about reading, retching, and vague notions; the second trimester is about the novelty of those notions becoming concrete in the form of a wriggling, swelling parasite. This third trimester has been mainly about waiting.

As we drew into the home-stretch of pregnancy my wife's uterus had inflated to the size of a decent watermelon, housing an energetic infant, half a pound of placental goo and a thick umbilical cord over two feet long. Her breasts had grown heavier, and frequently leaked nutritious and delicious colostrum. When sitting naked on the bed she was embarrassed to discover that she was leaving behind little puddles of leukorrhea from her nethers. She was an absent-minded, waddling, perpetually hungry baby-oven with leaks of all kinds, being tenderised from the inside out by her fierce and feisty tenant.

We found ourselves with a profusion of options available in the realm of prenatal classes, but very little to choose from in the way of birthing classes. While the former category deals largely with lifestyle and education issues (how to avoid inadvertantly wounding your child, and so on), the latter category deals exclusively with methods for coping with the birthing process itself. The classes are specific to each method.

Two of the most popular methods for managing natural childbirth (or psychoprophylaxis) are Lamaze and Bradley. The well-known namesake of French obstetrician Dr Ferdinand Lamaze hinges on using patterned breathing techniques and point-focus autohypnosis to manage the pain of the uterine contractions. The Lamaze method does not rule out the use of drugs. The method of Dr Robert A. Bradley, in contrast, is predicated on a total lack of anaesthetic medication. It emphasises gaining control of natural breathing rather than introducing unfamiliar breathing techniques. Proponents of the method would argue that the Bradley emphasis on inward focus and concentration on the events taking place is vastly more useful compared to what they would characterise as the Lamaze tendency to "distract" through outward focus. Lastly, where Lamaze is very open-ended with regard to the presence or absence of coaches, the Bradley method requires a consistent and intimate coach (I say "intimate" because Lamaze coaches are not necessarily obliged to massage their partner's perineum, which is indeed one of my happy duties).

While Lamaze classes were fairly plentiful, my wife was determined to go the rarer Bradley route. Since the next session of Bradley classes was not scheduled to begin until a week or two before our baby was due to be born, we opted to borrow a Bradley book from the midwives' free library instead. And since it seemed that most of the material featured in the more general prenatal classes was either painfully obvious or already thoroughlly covered in the books we had bought, we ended up taking absolutely no classes at all.

How much stuff do you need for a newborn baby? Not much, really. The real expenses don't kick in until later on, I'm told by reliable elder sources. A fresh baby needs a reasonable changing table, a crib, some wet-wipes, and a bunch of jumpers, sleepers and diapers. Notwithstanding the Thoreau-like simplicity of a newborn's life, our friends and relations have seen fit to launch at us volley after volley of innovative "vital" gifts.

Of course, we're not looking gift horses in the mouth. Just because we wouldn't have thought something was worth buying for ourselves doesn't mean the stuff we've ended up with isn't cool. For instance, we now have a diaper-pail that twists closed in such a way as to trap the stink inside. A marvel!

Beyond that, we have been inundated with all sorts of polymorphable plastic contraptions covered in industrial-orange and black striped stickers warning dire consequences for the unwary user in both official languages. We have been generously gifted a play-pen that folds down with a flick of a wrist into something the size of a hefty Rubik's Cube. We have truckloads of mobiles featuring licenced likenesses of all sorts of cute copyrighted critters, which spin and tinkle quiet tunes. Someone thoughtfully bought us a folding stroller with cup-holders and better suspension than my car.

For the birth event itself we have prepared receiving blankets for swaddling the recently de-wombed, bright flashlights for peering into my wife's cavities, clear plastic tarps to protect the hardwood floors from excessive wetness, plastic sheets to protect our bed from looking like a murder scene, olive oil for perineal message, weaveless maxipads and adult incontinence diapers for postpartum bleeding, rags and towels for sopping up offal, and two large bowls: one for catching vomit and one for catching afterbirth.

The birthing pool itself we managed to inflate with help from my father-in-law's leaf-blower. It fit easily into the nursery...once we took out most of the other furniture.

And so: we had settled on a course of study, prepared the essential materials for the birth, inflated the pool and finally decided on names. There remained nothing more but a steadily growing buzz of anticipation...

One afternoon we were lazing John & Yoko style in our bed, plucking idly at our PowerBooks and indulging in elaborate fantasies about our lifetime to come with Baby. We capped it off with a bit of hot sex. I was roused from my post-coital napping by my wife's enthusiastic announcement from the washroom: "My mucus-plug came out!"

The mucus-plug is stopper of snot that seals the mouth of the uterus for the duration of pregnancy. While its expulsion does not in and of itself signal the onset of labour, it is an indicator that the cervix -- the opening of the uterus -- has begun to prepare itself to move aside in order to permit the passage some fat freight. My wife's mucus-plug was streaked with blood, which suggested that the process of effacement had begun, heralded by the breaking of cervical capillaries. If it was indeed evidence of effacement that we were seeing, labour could be counted on to start within fifty hours.

Contractions started fifteen minutes later.

My wife's meatsack had been farting around with Braxton Hicks contractions for months, squishing itself experimentally when stimulated by walking or orgasm. These new contractions that she began to feel after her mucus-plug came out, however, did not peter out after a few minutes. Instead they continued to knock gently at her innards throughout dinner and into the night. "Maybe they're not contractions," my wife said while we watched some crappy movie on TV. "Maybe Baby is just kicking a lot."

"This movie isn't funny," I said, glancing up briefly from the Internet on my lap.

Somewhere in there I fell asleep, and woke up alone in bed five or six hours later. I padded out into the livingroom and saw my wife sitting on the couch surrounded by our pets, watching cartoons and surfing the web for first person accounts of giving birth. "The baby is coming today," she said simply.

We took the dog for a romp through the snow. My wife was experiencing mild contractions every 7 - 10 minutes, with a more intense contraction occuring irregularly in the mix, causing us to pause on the sidewalk and hunker against the wind quietly for a moment while she let it pass. When we got home we decided to tidy up a bit. She announced the start of her contractions from the laundry room while I loaded the dishwasher with a stopwatch in my hand, charting the duration, spacing and reported intensity. On paper the pattern was very clear: the time between contractions was compressing quickly, and the more intense contractions were coming more frequently and with greater regularity.

"Should we page our crack team of ace widwives now?" I asked.

"Nah, not yet," said my wife with confidence...

Her next contraction, beginning at 11:32:15, was different enough in character that it was immediately apparent even to me that something new was happening. She leaned over and held herself in a strange, semi-oblique pose against the table for almost forty seconds. "That one was stronger," she said as it began to fade. "I felt it in my back."

We retired to the bedroom for a back massage. With her next contraction at 11:35:16 she made a little involuntary groan. "I think my water just broke," she said. We shambled over to the washroom to investigate, and found her underwear soaked through with clear liquid. "Now I'm paging the midwives," I declared.

I paged the midwives at 11:39:20, then I drew my wife a warm bath in the washroom and helped her into it. Next I called all of the friends and relations who had asked to be notified when real labour began. Many of them jumped into cars and raced to our house immediately.

When I had not heard from the midwives a quarter hour later I paged again, leaving a more detailed message about my wife's condition. The contractions were coming less than a minute apart now, and lasting almost as long. The intensity was slowly mounting. I massaged her just below the small of her back, where the ligaments that anchor the rear of the uterus attach, doing what I could to soothe the mounting ache. "They feel different than I thought," she said; "It's a duller, more generalised pain than I had imagined it would be. Not at all like the sharp pain of a menstrual cramp."

At noon the apprentice midwife called. She told me that I no longer had to keep track of contractions, and that they would be arriving presently. Outside of the washroom the friends and relations had flown into action. My wife's parents arrived first, and immediately set to filling up the birthing pool with warm water from our laundry sink. When the hot water tank was empty they commanded a small squadron of hangers-on to action, boiling pots of water and relaying them into the nursery.

Twenty minutes later I noticed that the shape of my wife's pelvis was changing, ballooning out in front above her mons veneris. "Jeez, it almost looks like Baby's head is right there in your cooch," I said like an idiot. It slowly dawned on me that was exactly what was going on. While I felt around for the telephone I reminded my wife to try to keep her breathing slow and deep as she recovered from her latest contraction, leaning against the side of the tub, fighting to control her breath and keep her muscles relaxed. I paged the midwives a third time, letting more urgency leak into my voice. "It seems like we're progressing very quickly here," I said to the pager. During the next contraction bloody mucus squirted out into the bath water.

"I don't feel like I'm holding up very well," my wife said in a small voice between strong contractions. It broke my heart. In truth she was holding up like a champion, managing to control her muscles and reign in her breathing with calm determination. "You're my hero," I said.

When the midwives arrived they plopped down on the washroom floor beside me and deftly inserted a brace of fingers into my wife. "Your baby has a nice head of hair," reported the apprentice. The cervix had dilated to over eight centimeters. "We'd bitta move her now or we're going to heff thes beby right here," pronounced the senior midwife with melodious South African inflection.

When the latest contraction subsided I helped haul my wife up out of the tub, and we formed a little shuffling choo-choo train into the nursery as she held on to my shoulders. It was quarter past two in the afternoon, or a little less than three hours after labour had begun in earnest. Once she was lying down in the massive, steaming birthing tub the apprentice midwife examined her yoni again. "We're fully dilated," she said. The senior midwife asked, "Do you feel pressure on your bum? Like you heff to go to the toilet?"

Grimacing, my wife nodded yes emphatically.

And suddenly the all-clear was given: no longer was she to keep her muscles as relaxed as possible, but should instead begin to push with each contraction. The baby was coming -- right now. I hastily pulled my cellular telephone and fob-watch out of my pockets and jumped into the pool, making myself a human chair for my wife to lean into from behind. The contractions were coming one on top of another now, and within seconds she was pushing with everything she was worth, crushing my hands in hers spasmodically.

A line of intimates had accumulated at the door of the nursery: our mothers, my sister, the dog... I could see from the expression on their faces that there was suddenly something to see, though I could not myself see beyond my wife's twitching belly. "I can see your baby's head!" my wife's best friend cried. Already? Could we really be so near the end?

The next push sent out more streams of bloody mucus, curling and swooping lazily through the hot water. My wife cried out loudly, clenching my hands painfully in her grip. I felt the need to pee.

As she started her next push I saw clouds of runny blood blooming out from beneath her, diffusing into the water in a series of spurts. Stringy yellow fluid followed in slippery loop-de-loops as my wife let out a soul-blanching scream, simultaneously rocketing her head back and slamming my skull against the wall behind me. Through the dancing silver pinprick stars in my vision I saw the eyes of the attendees widen.

The apprentice midwife smiled. "The head is born!"

The final push was easier than the one before. In a single graceful motion the midwife scooped up a tiny creature with indigo skin and lay it on my wife's breast, squirming and clean, fresh from the water. A powerful urge overcame me, startling in its instinctive force, compelling me to take rapid but careful tally of the baby: ten fingers, ten toes, minimal skull deformation from passing through the birth canal, skin changing rapidly from purple to pink...

"You did it," I told my wife softly. "We have a little girl."

The rest is anticlimax. While my wife passed the placenta through her largely numbed loins I showed off my daughter to the friends and relations. My parents cried. Someone handed me a cigar and a glass of bubbly wine. The dog licked the newborn and wagged his tail. Baby took it all in with wide-eyed aplomb, quietly looking at whoever was talking, twisting her little earlobe with her tiny, perfect fingers. "Buh," she said, experimentally. "Bah," she added after a moment of reflection.

Before we committed the placenta to the freezer for future burial we took a tour of the organ as a family, with the midwives peeling through the various layers and lobes of red, shiny gore with rubber gloves. More wine was poured. "Ooo-meck," commented Baby as she was put to the breast and introduced to oral feeding.

"She's suckling," my wife confirmed, falling in love.

Yesterday night the sun set on me for the first time as a father. Things are different now. I am somebody's daddy. From this day forward, I live first for someone else.

The end.

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Top Reason to Reproduce:
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o Dr Robert A. Bradley
o inward focus
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o perineum
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o Also by CheeseburgerBrown


Display: Sort:
Third Trimester Report | 80 comments (64 topical, 16 editorial, 0 hidden)
Better Hurry (1.11 / 18) (#2)
by Wafiq Hamza on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 10:04:31 AM EST

Roe v Wade could be overturned any moment.

Placenta burial? (4.00 / 3) (#6)
by Iesu II on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 11:01:56 AM EST

Why freeze and then bury the placenta? Is burial just the most tasteful disposal method, or is there some more involved reason?

And hey, riveting story. My fiancee's clock is starting to tick pretty loudly, so I'm always on the lookout for gross and disturbing stories of childbirth to dissuade her. She always just goes "awwww," of course, no matter how many fluids are involved.



You want gross and disturbing? (4.00 / 1) (#8)
by Cloaked User on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 11:21:51 AM EST

Possibly the single most gross thing I've ever seen in real life (so goatse doesn't count) is my gf's waters breaking. One minute, pristine sheets - the next, a large pool of murky water forming between her legs. I dread to think what the view at that end of the bes was like (I was at the head end the whole time). Until that moment, I hadn't realised quite what was meant by "waters".

As I spent the entire time at the "head end", encouraging my gf, I missed most of details of the frantic activity that went on just post-birth, as they sewed up the tear the birth caused. Our daughter was born with her fist up by her head, which was just a little too much for my gf's poor body to cope with...

It doesn't end there, of course. In the intervening years, I've had various bodily functions performed on or near me more times than I care to remember. I've also had to cope with a few worrying ocurrences - from tea-spilling (nasty-looking burns to both legs, which have since healed without a trace) to apparent coughing up of blood (6 hours in casualty from about 11pm in a cubicle next to someone who'd overdosed, and threw his guts up every 20 minutes or so - all turned out to be well with my daughter though, thankfully).

She can be a right little pain too - three years old, very intelligent and very willfull. If she doesn't want to do something, there's no way you'll convince her; you just have to wear her down until she finally gives in (or you give up yourself). Every single night at bedtime, for instance.

That said, yes, of course I love her dearly, and wouldn't swap her for the world. But you don't have to tell your fiancee that bit ;-)
--
"What the fuck do you mean 'Are you inspired to come to work'? Of course I'm not 'inspired'. It's a job for God's sake! The money's enough and the work's not so crap that I leave."
[ Parent ]

Sam here (4.00 / 1) (#21)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 03:10:20 PM EST

Our daughter was born with her fist up by her head, which was just a little too much for my gf's poor body to cope with...

Our daughter was born in exactly the same pose! And yes, seeing my wife's nethers being sewed up in a pool of blood was definitely my least favourite visual memory of the whole experience.

[ Shudder. ]

Of course, it was almost worth it for the comical sight of my wife walking around in adult diapers for a few days. My two favourite girls are diaper twins right now.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Placenta Plans (4.50 / 2) (#20)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 03:02:54 PM EST

Why freeze and then bury the placenta? Is burial just the most tasteful disposal method, or is there some more involved reason?

The most "natural" disposal method is, of course, for the mother to eat it. This is what our ancestors did up until the last few millennia, until it came to be considered uncouth.

I suppose that the burial is really just a symbolic ritual -- seeing the organ that had provided so much life itself becoming the source of further life. Some kind of circle-of-life crap, I figure. I think the bottom line is that my wife invested a lot of time making her placenta, and it seems kinds of disheartening to her for whatever reason to have it simply incinerated (the most common disposal method).

We're freezing it until we move into a new house next autumn, at which point she plans to plant it under a sapling. Baby's tree, so to speak, nourished by the mingled blood of mother and daughter.

(...Frankly, I wouldn't be all that surprised if it ends up getting forgotten about. I'll probably find it at the bottom of the freezer in 2019 and think it's old lasagna or something.)

The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Placenta's baby's organ (3.00 / 1) (#35)
by kinenveu on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 09:11:10 AM EST

Just a little correction : the placenta is a part of the baby. It is easy to verify this by doing a DNA test. Technically, a few days after the conception, the fetus is made of a ball of a few several hundred cells. The inner part of the ball will become the baby, while the outer part makes up the placenta.

[ Parent ]
strange people (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by loteck on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 11:14:59 AM EST

they dont like something about mary, and the dog is licking the newborn. strange people ;)
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

I liked "KingPin"... (none / 0) (#29)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 09:02:33 PM EST

...which is also a Farrelly Brothers movie.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
When I give birth (none / 0) (#12)
by rayab on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 01:22:55 PM EST

not that I"m going to any time soon, but when the time comes I am going to be yelling "MORE MORPHINE", I dont like pain, gah I dont understand why birth has to be so complicated.

Y popa bila sobaka on yeyo lyubil, ona syela kusok myasa on yeyo ubil, v zemlyu zakopal, i na mogile napisal...
Easy as 1-2-3 (none / 0) (#22)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 03:16:54 PM EST

...gah I dont understand why birth has to be so complicated.

In retrospect the whole thing seemed so uncomplicated, I thought. It really seemed like her body knew what to do, and when. It was not totally disimilar from passing a large poo, in a way. Don't fight the cramps, push you can make progress, and try to think happy thoughts.

In the wide world of deliveries, this one was easy as 1-2-3. About as uncomplicated as it gets! We were very lucky.

As for drugs: afterward my wife said, "Now I understand why lots of women choose to have the drugs. I wouldn't be judgemental at all." That goes double for me.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
It is amazing (none / 0) (#40)
by Pseudonym on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 07:20:26 PM EST

Roger that. Childbirth is incredibly uncomplicated.

We were unlucky with our first, as she was breech. Being in an enlightened country, the midwife and doctor did not suggest a caesarian, but did insist that an epidural be in place just in case one was required at short notice.

My wife hated it. Imagine 21.5 hours of sitting on your tailbone unable to move around. If we'd known, we'd have brought a deck of cards.



sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
[ Parent ]
Just a suggestion... (none / 0) (#39)
by Pseudonym on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 07:10:30 PM EST

The one situation you don't want to be in is to have to give birth without pain relief but unprepared for it.

I've spoken to many women (including my wife) who have given birth without pain relief, or minimal pain relief (e.g. nitrous oxide, which does not get into either mother or baby's bloodstream), and most who have been prepared for it beforehand reported that the pain was no worse than a bad migrane or bad toothache. YMMV of course.



sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
[ Parent ]
Alternative Baby URL (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 07:20:25 PM EST

As I write my website is not responding very well, so here is an alternative URL to take a peek at Baby:

http://deepsky.com/~heisenberg/baby


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
Cute Kid (none / 0) (#26)
by dteeuwen on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 08:32:22 PM EST

And, all the lonely programmers suggesting you should drop the story only show their colors.

_________

Down the slopes of death he rides
The eight hooves pound like drums
Darkness reigns the crumbling sky
Invasion has begun


[ Parent ]

curious (none / 0) (#27)
by alukaiser on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 08:46:56 PM EST

Perhaps I misunderstood the context, but when you said you had sex was that literal? And if so, isnt that unhealthy in the third trimester or is it a myth?

Man, being reasonable, must get drunk. -Lord Byron

Full-Term Fuckery (4.66 / 3) (#28)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 08:57:07 PM EST

As I understand it there is no significant danger in having hot sex during the third trimester (except that female orgasms tend to trigger mild contractions, which might be dangerous if there was some reason to think a premature birth might be likely). Sex is encouraged at the very end of term, since substances in sperm help soften the cervix and surrounding tissues in preparation for stretching. For the record, this beneficial effect finds its way to the cervix whether the sperm is taken vaginally or orally.

The reason why many people have little to no sex during the third trimester is that it is bloody challenging. Imagine: your partner is achy, potentially nauseated, being beaten up from the inside, and she has a hump the size of a watermelon attached to her abdomen -- not exactly a recipe for boudoir acrobatics.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
A myth - for us anyway (4.00 / 1) (#34)
by creo on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 08:52:50 AM EST

Similar to Mr. & Mrs. Brown, Mrs C and I had some hot monkey (well actually doggy :-) sex the night before child unit 2 was born.

I actually found that Mrs C. was very horny while pregnant, particularly in the last trimester. I did notice that cu1 took 5 hours of labour. Compared to this Cu2 took about 30 seconds - he came out like a cannon shot in a shower of blood and guts. It was that quick that the midwife didn't even have time to put on her gloves and apron. A truly amazing sight...

[ Parent ]

The Baby Likes It (none / 0) (#67)
by dteeuwen on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 11:13:23 PM EST

I learned that one in my pre-natal classes. But, it's also not bad because it can help induce labor when it's near birthing time.

_________

Down the slopes of death he rides
The eight hooves pound like drums
Darkness reigns the crumbling sky
Invasion has begun


[ Parent ]

Bonus Sub-Poll: (none / 0) (#30)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 09:24:23 PM EST

When do you, personally, consider it socially appropriate for a woman to whip out her teat and start suckling her young?
a) When nature calls let the breast proudly answer, no matter what the circumstances! On the subway! In the market! On streaming webcast!
b) It's weird when women breastfeed in front of people who aren't family or close friends.
c) If it is discreet, the circumstances aren't important.
d) Depends entirely on the teats involved.
e) Breastfeeding belongs behind closed doors, like masturbation and hemorrhoid relief.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
c.. discretion where possible (none / 0) (#32)
by BugCatcher on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 10:22:16 PM EST

but if you're at home, anyway you like. I also wanted to point out that some of us have been able to reproduce without having sex, or rather, the sex wasn't for reproduction. <g>

Congrats, I actually teared up during this update. Have fun.

Tixy likes big packages...
[ Parent ]

whenever the fuck. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by cicero on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 05:42:53 PM EST

be as discreet as you feel you need to be, but seriously, when it's time to eat, it's time to eat. People need to get off their high-horses and let the tyke get a bite to eat. it's only a fucking breast. And if they find a baby suckling sexual, they should seek counseling.

that's just my opinion though, and I've been wrong in the past.


--
I am sorry Cisco, for Microsoft has found a new RPC flaw - tonight your e0 shall be stretched wide like goatse.
[ Parent ]

Answer e) (none / 0) (#41)
by it certainly is on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 08:06:50 PM EST

because if your wife removes her BURKHA, then ANOTHER MAN might GLIMPSE HER FLESH and HAVE LUSTFUL THOUGHTS. We must prevent this ATROCITY BEFORE GOD by insisting your wife remain FULLY CLOTHED and SEVEN PACES BEHIND YOU while in public.

Yours,
Fundamentalists Who Give Islam A Bad Name

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Definitely (e) (none / 0) (#43)
by CodeWright on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 09:54:22 PM EST

For those unfamiliar with the concept, it is called "common courtesy".

In other words -- with the exception of a few beautiful people (hint: less people are beautiful than think they are), I don't want to look at random people's private parts.... and, trust me on this, you don't want to see my fat hairy belly either.

So.... in the interest of preserving everyone's sanity... don't encourage public nudity. You'll just end up having to see me naked. Nobody wants that.

--
"Humanity's combination of reckless stupidity and disrespect for the mistakes of others is, I think, what makes us great." --Parent ]
option a, definitely. (none / 0) (#46)
by henrik on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 12:14:10 AM EST

Getting the kid fed should be a lot more important than social taboos. Doing it descreetly isn't wrong though.

Akademiska Intresseklubben antecknar!
[ Parent ]
a and c aren't mutually exclusive! (none / 0) (#49)
by hawthorne on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 06:48:05 AM EST

Apart from the first week or so, whe the baby (and mother, the first time round) are working out precisely how it all works, there is no need to 'expose yourself' to breastfeed.

I breastfed my son for about 13 months - and would do so in practically any situation, but I don't recall ever exhibiting a nipple to any random passers-by.

Clare

[ Parent ]

A). Without reservations. n/t (none / 0) (#60)
by jabber on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 11:54:05 AM EST

.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

Congrats! (4.00 / 1) (#31)
by mrsspaceghoti on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 09:51:53 PM EST

Congrats on becoming a daddy!

Spaceghoti and I are expecting our second in a few weeks - even though I plan to have an natural birth, I am booked into a hospital (due to high insurance, there are very few midwives who will do home-births).

To the person who asked about sex during pregnancy: It is safe to have sex through the whole 3 trimesters of pregnancy - unless you have a history of miscarriages. Sex can actually bring on labour towards the end of full term - same goes for raspberry leaf tea.

I would consider doing the placenta burial thing, but I cant see us spending the rest of our lives in the house we are in today. This time I plan to deliver the placenta w/o any medical assistance - it would have happened last time if the midwife would have listened to my wishes. Ignorant bloody woman!

We also wish to breastfeed this one straight after delivery - unlike the first, and again, due to the ignorant bloody midwife, we didnt get to which is the strong foundation of my argument as to why I wasn't successful with breastfeeding.

Again, my congratz to you and your partner and welcome to the wonderful world of parenting were sleep deprivation is worth it!


"It's ok for all you gay guys - you can get away with faking it. All you have to do is spit." Joan Rivers commenting on faking orgasms.


Lactation Nazis (none / 0) (#33)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Wed Jan 22, 2003 at 10:45:37 PM EST

Thanks for your nice words, and early kudos on your own soon to bloom 2nd squirmer!

We also wish to breastfeed this one straight after delivery - unlike the first, and again, due to the ignorant bloody midwife, we didnt get to which is the strong foundation of my argument as to why I wasn't successful with breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding seems to be a really touchy thing -- many women/infant duos seem to have a lot of trouble with it. Since I have trouble believing that it is an inherently flawed sustenance delivery system, I have to believe that it's bad instruction that fudges it up, as you suggest in your case.

Ingrid wasn't put to the breast until about twenty minutes after she was born. She didn't manage to find a solid latch until sometime later that night. She stuck with it, though, and my wife's milk started coming in a few hours ago.

My friend Dave mentioned that he and his wife were accosted several times in the hospital by roving lactation nazis whose sole purpose seemed to be to cluck and shake their heads while saying, "I don't think the child's getting a good enough latch. You might want to consider going with formula. Formula - squawk! formula!"

There seems to be a strange conspiracy afoot. When you ask about breastfeeding, everyone agrees that it's the best thing to do, at least at the beginning. And yet, so few people actually end up doing it. It's weird.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Our breastfeeding experience. (4.00 / 2) (#42)
by mrsspaceghoti on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 09:10:35 PM EST

Thanks for your well wishes. Had a check up yesterday, and doctor says that everything is looking great - baby might actually come earlier than the mathematically worked out dates, and closer to the scan EDD.

The hospital staff in the country where I am are VERY strong advocates for breastfeeding - if you opt for anything else there is just something wrong with you.

Our daughter didnt get to the breast until some 5-6 hours after birth. I had pestered several times after deliver to breastfeed and be given the "I'm sorry the midwife has to supervise that and she is too busy" - I was trying to respond as a nurturing mother and meet my daughter's needs, with more pestering when I noticed that our daughter had developed a strong sucking reflex as she was trying to suck the blanket she was wrapped up on. I would have tried myself without any assistance, however there is a strong emphasis about getting the right latch onto the nipple area, so I thought it would be best to get it right first go.

As it is common with newborns, the first 24 hours of being outside the womb is spent sleeping, so when they brought her in, some 5-6 hrs after birth, she was fast asleep. [Daughter was born 3:10am.. they put in the nursery so I could recover - yeah, right, how is a person spose to recover when rooming with a lady with irregular contractions - but thats another story.]

I told them several times that she wouldnt be interested, and mentioned to put themselves in her shoes: Would you want someone trying to shove something into your mouth when you are having a good snooze? It's bad enough having to wake up when the alarm clock goes off.

They finally gave up and said they would try a little later. Mind you this is after they had squeezed, tugged and god knows what else with my boob and my daughter to try and get her latched on properly.

Then you have the issue where each nurse has their own theory on how a baby should be breastfeed - both boobs, or one boob, per feed. Well, I ended up with very grazed nipples, and being a first time mum I had nfi on what it was spose to feel like "when my milk had come in". I have forgotten how many times I was asked that, only to annoy them with the response of "Well, you tell me what it feels like, and I'll let you know.".

By 4th day, which happened to be Sept11th or 12th (depending on which side of the pacific ocean you are on), I was ready to go home. Breastfeeding had become that painful that I told them that labour was less painful - they didnt believe me, surprise surprise. They asked the most stupid question: "If you go home, how/what are you going to feed your baby?" What sort of question is that???? I mentioned to them, as much as I was close to telling them "Mashed potatoes and lamb chops", that I would try expressing and if that failed, then resort to formula.

Noone mentioned to me about the option of wearing nipple shields, until a week later when my sister (who has 4 kids) asked me if they had. I responded to my sister with "Nipple what? Don't talk kinky with me.". She was astounded that they had not mentioned them to me - especially when they consider themselves the "breastfeeding professionals". So, you know what's packed and waiting in my hospital bag - along with some highly recommended nipple cream - don't you?

Ahh yes.. the delimmas of becoming a mother. Even though with this experience contstantly relived each time I look at a bra, let alone my boobs, I'm still willing to give it another shot with Number 2. Am I stupid? I dunno - I guess we'll have to wait and find out, won't we?


"It's ok for all you gay guys - you can get away with faking it. All you have to do is spit." Joan Rivers commenting on faking orgasms.


[ Parent ]
I second that. (3.00 / 1) (#65)
by Stoutlimb on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 04:48:25 PM EST

My and my wife's encounters with the roving lactation nazi's was pretty much the same as yours.  They insisted on formula for our baby to the point where he became too used to the bottle, and didn't know how to properly breast feed.  A month and a half after his birth, my wife finally gave up trying to breast feed because of this.

My word of advice to any new parents, that unless there actually is something medically wrong with the breasts or the baby, fend off the lactation nazi's with vigour.

Bork!

[ Parent ]

These Characters Lurke (4.00 / 1) (#66)
by dteeuwen on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 10:53:29 PM EST

In the darker hallways of the hosptal, ready at any moment to dissolve your faith in your own parenthood. Many are know to sport horns or breath sulphur.

Incidentally, without their aid, my daughter has managed to become even more ravenous in the presence of breasts than your average teenage male.

_________

Down the slopes of death he rides
The eight hooves pound like drums
Darkness reigns the crumbling sky
Invasion has begun


[ Parent ]

congratulate your wife (none / 0) (#36)
by evilpckls on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 09:37:19 AM EST

she's far braver than i will ever be.

and by the way, your daughter is beautiful. my email address is listed someplace. i want to see more pictures. =)

-------
"oh, bread... oh.. baby... ohhh... fluffy goodness..." --nstenz

Came Up Empty (none / 0) (#58)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 11:09:21 AM EST

and by the way, your daughter is beautiful. my email address is listed someplace. i want to see more pictures. =)

I cannot find an address, actually. Did I not dig deep enough?

P.S. Cool printericide photostravaganza. I killed my piece-of-turd 17" graphite Apple CRT a few months ago in a similar way, after it expired less than one week after the warranty did.

The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
alrighty then (none / 0) (#59)
by evilpckls on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 11:38:10 AM EST

evil_pckls@hotmail.com. or if you'd prefer, evilpckls on aim.

-------
"oh, bread... oh.. baby... ohhh... fluffy goodness..." --nstenz
[ Parent ]

More Photos (none / 0) (#62)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 12:08:14 PM EST

http://mfdh.ca/baby/album.html

The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
awwwww (none / 0) (#64)
by evilpckls on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 01:56:45 PM EST

*coos at baby* you have my email addy, go nuts and be the proud daddy, and share pictures liberally.

-------
"oh, bread... oh.. baby... ohhh... fluffy goodness..." --nstenz
[ Parent ]

http://www.vhemt.org/ (3.50 / 2) (#38)
by trane on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 06:24:50 PM EST

No comment.

You know what's really funny? (5.00 / 3) (#44)
by JChen on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 11:33:09 PM EST

10 years from now, your daughter's friends will find this in some archive. I'm sure she appreciates people knowing that her parents fucked each other good in the third trimester.

Let us do as we say.
Birds, Bees, Waybackmachine (none / 0) (#55)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 10:41:32 AM EST

I'm sure. They'll all shriek "eeeeeuuuuuuuuu!" while over at a slumber-party where one of them has figured out how to disengage the content-filters on the web.

There is no undo on the Internet.

The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by cutter on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 11:34:11 PM EST

Beautifully written. The gory details made me feel as though I was right there. Congratulations to you, your wife, and family.

Thanks for sharing the experience.

---
Brian

Abortion (none / 0) (#47)
by lpret on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 12:27:17 AM EST

First off, a beautiful story, your wife should be very proud of a husband like yourself.

Second, and keeping more in the tradition of kuro5hin, has this whole experience changed your ideas on abortion?

I myself have always been a big proponent of abortion, no matter the -mester, but after hearing firsthand from my sister about her pregnancy, from the beginning pictures of the baby in her womb to the vicious kickings, it drastically changed my opinion.


A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. - Greek proverb

Not Relevant, Really (none / 0) (#57)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 11:04:47 AM EST

As I mentioned in my first report my wife and I did discuss our views on abortion some months ago. Personally, my views have not changed as a result of experiencing the reality of a baby in the womb because my views on abortion are not predicated on the level of development of the in utero infant.

Whether or not Baby is a fully qualified human being doesn't enter into the debate of whether or not I have the right to extinguish that life.

...Which, incidentally, I believe that I (we) do; on a gut-level (on a level that does not have to take into account the reality of living by rules and social contracts) I'm not necessarily opposed to post-partum infanticide in and of itself. It is common in the animal kingdom, when resources are scarce. It's not a thought I'd particularly like to entertain, but -- to be completely honest -- I do see that kind of decision as within my ken, were I not bound by law.

(It should go without saying that no one is planning on slaying Baby anytime soon.)

I guess my answer partly comes from the fact that -- outside of a legal context -- I have trouble putting much stock in most rights. The only inalienable right that anyone truly has (i.e., without the protection of lawyers and gens d'armes) is the right to die and the right to do whatever is within your power to avoid dying. Everything else is just fancy gravy and chewy philosophy.

The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Funny this comes up now (none / 0) (#48)
by Quila on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 03:39:45 AM EST

My wife is having our third daughter today.

And what are you doing here? ;) (nt) (none / 0) (#51)
by angus on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 09:01:47 AM EST



[ Parent ]
So...any news yet? [n/t] (none / 0) (#71)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Sat Jan 25, 2003 at 12:41:31 PM EST


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Here (none / 0) (#77)
by Quila on Tue Jan 28, 2003 at 08:36:57 AM EST

~8lb girl born 7:09pm CET, on Saturday though. For anyone contemplating kids, do water birth. Not only are there a lot of advantages for the mother and child, there is also one for the father. You don't get to hold a kid coated in slime (or as Robin Williams says, "A little old man dipped in 40-weight."), you get one that was freshly washed on the way out.

[ Parent ]
Hear! Hear! (none / 0) (#78)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Jan 28, 2003 at 04:57:42 PM EST

Congratulations, Quila! And good call on the slime -- I forgot to mention that.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Congrats! (none / 0) (#50)
by p3d0 on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 08:40:03 AM EST

Some advice: get some pictures of your baby that show a sense of scale. You will be amazed how quickly she grows. My little guy is 8 weeks old, and has grown from 5.5 pounds to 12 pounds in that time. He also grew 4 inches in his first month---a feat he will probably never duplicate---and has grown at least another couple of inches since then. His arms and legs have transformed from mere bones barely concealed by skin into strong, chubby limbs.

Another piece of advice: when someone gives you advice, just smile and nod, and then go do what you think is right.
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.

Baby Not To Scale (none / 0) (#56)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 10:44:22 AM EST

Some advice: get some pictures of your baby that show a sense of scale.

That's brilliant, Pat. I never thought of that. I will definitely keep that in mind for the next series of 2,048 pictures (I'm currently emptying the camera of the first load now).


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Amateur photography (none / 0) (#63)
by p3d0 on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 12:39:15 PM EST

I mention it because I thought of it too late myself. I have one picture of him in his car seat, and subsequent pictures in the same seat show a change; besides that, I don't have much.

And I have no digital camera, but I'm up to approximately 450 prints at this point. (Yes, I think the development costs were still cheaper than a digital camera, though not much. Plus, I'm sure I'd want to get a lot of them as prints anyway.)
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
[ Parent ]

A little bit of "Baby Stuff" advice (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by the original jht on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 09:53:05 AM EST

As the recent (8 months ago today) father of a baby boy, I can suggest a few "must have" and a few "don't need" things for Baby's collection.

First off - instead of a conventional stroller, consider the variety known as "travel systems".  A good travel system will include an infant carrier, a base for it (so it can be quickly mounted and dismounted from your car), and a stroller that the infant carrier fits into nicely.  Once Baby outgrows the infant carrier, you can use the stroller as a conventional stroller.  It's convenient, and less wasteful than having all separate components.

Also, as you had mentioned in the report, you can't have too many sleepers and onesies.  Baby will go through them quickly - the laundry never ends.  And a good positioner may be handy to make sure Baby sleeps on her back.  However, the one drawback of back sleeping is that a lot of back sleeping babies develop plagiocephaly (a flattened back of the head) which, though harmless, is odd-looking.  A positioner with memory foam for the head will help prevent problems.

Baby doesn't need too many toys in the early months.  However, for the ones to have I have two suggestions - any of the developmental toys with the Lamaze brand on them are excellent (our little one particularly likes the fabric cube and the "inchworm" toy), and the Gymini play mats are terrific.

We were given a bassinet, cradle, and crib, but the cradle and bassinet were near useless.  We wound up giving both of them to other friends of ours who had babies.

One other suggestion for you: many new parents try to tiptoe around the baby when Baby is sleeping.  Don't.  Just live your life normally, make noise, watch TV, do what you would normally do.  Baby will quickly learn to conk out under pretty much any circumstances, and will soon be able to sleep through nearly anything.

The first few months will be tough, especially on your wife.  After a while she'll feel like a machine whose only job is to feed the baby - and she'll be feeding the baby constantly.  Pamper her.  After about 3-4 months Baby will start sleeping through the night most of the time, and you'll become far more relaxed quickly.

Finally, on your mini-breastfeeding poll:  I think it should be done anywhere you want, anytime Baby wants, but should be done discreetly if possible.  But when push comes to shove, Baby's food is more important than what unenlightened folks think about appearances.

- -Josh Turiel
"Someday we'll all look back at this and laugh..."

Two different worlds. (none / 0) (#53)
by it certainly is on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 10:37:25 AM EST

(so it can be quickly mounted and dismounted from your car)

Where I come from, buses lower their front suspension to the kerb, to allow mums to easily get strollers on and off the bus. They also have an open seating area at the front of the bus so they don't have to take baby out and fold up the buggy.

Two different worlds, I guess.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Re: Baby Stuff Advice (none / 0) (#54)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 10:37:45 AM EST

Thanks for all your insights and advice, Josht. Your call on the "travel systems" solution sounds right on. Unfortunately, except for a bassinet/car-seat combo, we have already been gifted everything as separate components: pram, stroller, play-pen...

We do indeed have a few of the Lamaze brand toys, but at this early stage the wee one seems only interested in staring at our faces, or at fingers fluttering in a pattern. The playmats I'm not familiar with, but will look into.

Baby went to the mall yesterday, and was good as gold. That was nice, because it meant my wife got to be briefly released from house arrest. Both of them are holding up with troopers. Both of them are receiving as much pampering as I can muster.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
More advice, and a question. (none / 0) (#74)
by Paul Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2003 at 09:13:18 AM EST

First off - instead of a conventional stroller, consider the variety known as "travel systems".

OK, but bear in mind that the travel systems tend to weigh more and fold up less flat. We looked and eventually opted for separate units.

When you come to look at high chairs go for light and thin-folding over padded. Better yet, find a chair that can be strapped to a conventional chair. We've found an excellent one that folds up flat (base unclips from sides * folds up, sides fold up to cover and retain it, tray fits into gap, straps tie it all up). But we haven't seen it in ths shops since. When we went by boat to see my family in Guernsey we just strapped it to the ferry seat and had an instant child seat.

On a separate question, now your wife has been through a natural childbirth, would she do the same for the next one? I hear that a lot of women who go natural for the first baby want pain relief for the second.

Paul
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
[ Parent ]

Natural Childbirth Reprise Please (none / 0) (#75)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Mon Jan 27, 2003 at 09:29:57 AM EST

...Now your wife has been through a natural childbirth, would she do the same for the next one?

The reply, as called from the bedroom: "Without hesitation."

She adds after a moment of consideration that she can now more fully emphathise with women who do choose pain relief, but that she wouldn't find it necessary, personally, if her next delivery went as smoothly as the first one (we were really very lucky).

Myself, I was left with the overwhelming impression that her body knew what it was doing, and didn't need anything extra to get the job done. Her discomfort, while intense, was brief.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
Lucky indeed (4.00 / 1) (#76)
by Paul Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2003 at 11:26:31 AM EST

Her discomfort, while intense, was brief.

I have vivid memories of my wife desperately grabbing for the gas as she felt another contraction coming on. And then stitches, and a blood transfusion a couple of days later because she lost a couple of litres during the birth and her blood count just kept dropping afterwards.

You were indeed lucky. On the other hand so were we: lucky to live in the 21st century.

Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
[ Parent ]

Beautiful (5.00 / 3) (#61)
by jabber on Fri Jan 24, 2003 at 12:04:33 PM EST

Congratulations to you and yours. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. The manner in which you have done so, throughout your wife's pregnancy, has been entertaining, captivating, and highly educational. When I reach the same point in my life as you have in yours, I will look back on what I've read, and feel better equipped to cope - in knowledge and attitude. Finally, let me just say that yours are a prime example of the sort of articles that make K5 a gem. Thank you.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Hmmm (none / 0) (#68)
by omghax on Sat Jan 25, 2003 at 12:12:06 AM EST

I doubt seriously that Baby looked at anything specific since newborns can't yet control their eye movements =]

Oh, and congratulations

Never the less... (none / 0) (#69)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Sat Jan 25, 2003 at 09:17:48 AM EST

...it is a convincing and heart-warming illusion. Like gas-smiles.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
My Daughter, As Blind As a Bat (none / 0) (#70)
by dteeuwen on Sat Jan 25, 2003 at 12:04:28 PM EST

Was looking at everything from the moment she was born and has not stopped. It's a little unsettling. I will be the father of a CIA agent if I am not careful.

_________

Down the slopes of death he rides
The eight hooves pound like drums
Darkness reigns the crumbling sky
Invasion has begun


dont forget to tell her (none / 0) (#72)
by turmeric on Sun Jan 26, 2003 at 10:30:40 PM EST

'in a few weeks we are going to bomb iraq! wont that be fun?'

"Go to sleep or Saddam will eat you." (none / 0) (#73)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Sun Jan 26, 2003 at 10:48:18 PM EST

I am now soooo undraftable.


The opinions expressed in the comments above are not those of the author; they have been rented for the occasion of this writing from a neutral third party.<
[ Parent ]
due in June (5.00 / 1) (#79)
by sambuca on Thu Jan 30, 2003 at 05:32:11 PM EST

My wife is due in June and I am already getting the jitters when I think about the last few days before birth and labor and birth itself.

I really enjoyed your articles. Now, if you would like to read about the first wonderful year with your new baby, check out

The story of somebody else's baby

(Warning: please turn on your sacasm detector first :)

Great link (none / 0) (#80)
by LittleStar on Sat Feb 01, 2003 at 11:16:03 AM EST

Thanks for this link, very funny stuff.
Twinkle. Twinkle. Twinkle.
[ Parent ]
Third Trimester Report | 80 comments (64 topical, 16 editorial, 0 hidden)
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