Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
A brief introduction to Filipino folklore and mythology

By circletimessquare in Culture
Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 01:44:30 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

A lot of us in the West have heard of trolls, leprechauns, and vampires.

Yawn.

Have you heard of Manananggal? Tikbalang? Maria Makiling?

Read on then, because folklore and mythology is important, all over the world. And the Philippines has an extremely rich and fascinating folklore. "Ang siyang di lumingon sa pinanggalingan ay di makararating sa paroroonan (Whoever does not look back at a starting point, will not arrive at a destination)". It is bad to lose touch with one's cultural roots, and the cultural roots, in turn, of the world, the least reason for which is so as to not wind up as bitter as this guy.


Manananggal

Manananggal are similar to Pennangalan in Malaysia, to which the Philippines is linguistically and culturally related. Also called Wakwak in the Visayas (The Philippines can be roughly understood in 3 pieces: Luzon in the North, the Visayas in the middle, and Mindanao in the south... each is linguistically and culturally somewhat distinct).

What are Manananggal? The scariest goriest bad ass vampires you are ever to come across.

By day, they look like beautiful women. In fact, the more adoring males they come across they often turn into their consorts who guard their queen fanatically, especially when her inanimate body is most vulnerable: at night. The word Manananggal roughly means "self-remover" in Tagalog. This is because at night, a Manananggal's head lifts from her body cavity, and she flies about, her internal organs hanging from her floating head. Alternatively, she turns her arms into wings, or spouts wings, and severs at the torso instead. Here is a sketch of that form from Dion Fernandez.

The smell of vinegar gives them away, the fluid that preserves their ghastly parasitical cohabitation with their daytime body. Manananggal prey on pregnant women, specifically the fetus, almost exclusively. They have a tube which comes out of their mouth to perform the feeding, like this (Warning: annoying midi music ahead).

You kill a Manananggal by putting salt on its lower body while the head is flying about. But of course, you have to get past the fanatical consorts which guard her vulnerable lower half first. If a Manananggal cannot reunite with its lower half by sunrise, she dies. The salt prevents this. They are part of a larger group of corpse-loving changelings called Aswang, of which they are perhaps the strongest and most powerful.

Maria Makiling

Maria Makiling is a diwata, a filipino fairy. She is a trickster forest spirit. She is alternatively malevolent, especially to hunters, and helpful. She is also sad in a way. Her story is attached to Mt. Makiling on the big island of Luzon. This page has a good write up about Maria and the mountain:

Makiling is one of the most famous mountain in the archipelago and with that comes a lot of folklore and legends about the mountain and the goddess that lives in the mountain, Mariang Makiling. In fact people living within the towns under the shadow of the mountains has always describe the silhouette of the mountain peak as that of Makiling lying down.

One of the famous stories is about an enchanted woman who lived in the quiet woods at the foot of Mt. Makiling. The people named her Maria Makiling because of where she lived. She was a young and beautiful woman. The beauty abundance and serenity of this enchanted place complimented her rare qualities. She was kind and compassionate to the town people. She shared the full and rich abundance of her enchanted places; fishes in the lake, food and crops, fruits and trees. All were for free. People could borrow from her whatever they need, whatever they wanted. Her kindness was known far and wide. One afternoon, a hunter came by and wandered into her kingdom. When he saw her beauty, he fell in love with her and she too felt the same way for him. They met and talk everyday and promised to love each other forever. Until one day Maria waited for him but he did not come. Maria discovered that he found a real woman and got married. She was very sad and frustrated. She felt deeply hurt and realized that the town people could not be trusted because she was different from them and they were just using her. Forgiving was really difficult. Her sadness and frustration turned into anger that she refused to give fruits to the trees. Animals and birds were no more. Fish no longer abound the lakes. People seldom saw her. It was only during pale moonlit nights that they sometimes see her.

Another story is about three suitors who intensely battled for the heart of Makiling. One was a Spanish soldier, another, a Spanish-Filipino mestizo and the third, a Filipino farmer named Juan. In the end the Filipino won the heart of Maria Makiling which angered the two other suitor. They have plotted to kill him through a fire that broke down on the garrison, which they blamed against Filipinos including Juan. They shot Juan as punishment and before dying he shouted the name of Maria. Maria went down in the mountain and cursed the two as well as the other men who cannot accept failure in love then she went back in the mountains never to be seen again. The Spanish soldier died during the revolution while the mestizo died of illness. When somebody gets lost in the mountains, people attribute it to the curse on Makiling.

Here is a more thorough telling of Maria's experience with her 3 suitors. Here is a good abstract portrait of her by Arnold Arre. Here is another one of her legends. The legends usually revolve around hunters getting lost in the woods and falling in lover with her, and her alternately being helpful at first, and then wrathful when promises to her are broken, or just plain mean to hunters lost in the woods to begin with, perhaps due to prior experiences? There is always a theme of lost or forbidden love as well with Maria.

Tikbalang

A tikbalang is sort of a centaur in reverse- like a minotaur. They are sometimes harmless, and sometimes downright malevolent creatures, depending upon the myth, but they are never stupid. They are tricksters, and are very playful and intelligent. They often riddle whomever they meet, and if successfully beaten at their riddling, they will allow their victims to pass, or reward with gold. A little off-topic: "Tame the Tikbalang" is also the name of a great Pinoy Punk band! More. Pictures.

Kapre

Kapre are strange tree demons that smoke huge cigars. Warning: annoying midi music ahead.

The term kapre was derived from the Spanish "kapfre", in turn from the Moors, from the Arabic Kaffir, an African non-believer. It is suggested that when the conquistadors first came to the Philippines, they heard about the mystical creatures approximating their kafre, and soon the conqueror's lexicon prevailed in any areas.  
Be very careful when trees move without wind. This means that a kapre is present at the very top of the tree. The kapre sits quietly smoking a leg-sized cigar that never burns out. It terrifies passerby with its size, glowing eyes and cigar, but it is otherwise harmless. It is said to live in trees, abandoned houses and ruined buildings. They are believed to appear only at night.

Mangkukulam

Mangkukulam is Filipino black magic. A great practitioner of Mangkukulam is called a Mambabarang. Do not mess with it. I won't even talk that much about it, besides to quote this tale:

A woman friend (let's call her Lita) of ours from Batangas (Philippines) had an ugly fight with an old man regarding a coconut tree. After sometime, Lita finds her tummy getting big. Thinking she was pregnant, she announced it to almost everyone in the barrio. Days passed she became aware that there is something wrong with her preganancy. Her tummy gets bigger way too fast - considering that she had only been "pregnant" for two months. When she went to a doctor, the doctor tells her that there's some kind of a "mass" inside her tummy, and it's definitely not a baby. So she had surgery. When the doctor opened her tummy, nata de coco (a processed coconut) spilled out of her. Almost 2 bags were taken out. "Binarang ka siguro ng matandang nakaaway mo, kilala iyon sa lugar namin bilang mambabarang" (The old man you had a fight with is well known to be a mambabarang and you had become his victim) says one of our ka-barrio.

Siquijor

I once talked to a guy from Siquijor. I told him I wanted to go to that island because of its fascinating connection with the supernatural. And he was like, "Why would you ever want to go there?" It's not a particularly large or impressive island. It's quite tiny and charming, actually, it's just a little out of the way. But for some reason, its infamy in the Visayas as a center of witchcraft and Mangkukulam is well-establish. The guy said he was constantly teased at school in Cebu for being from there. And whatever you do, according to those "in the know," if you go to Siquijor, if you let anyone there touch you, you MUST immediately touch them back! Or you will be doomed to the world of black magic and be at the mercy of Mangkukulam. Here is a good examination of the quaint little island with the strange reputation.

You have only scratched the surface! You need to find out about Dwende, the Filipino equivalent of elves, or gnomes, Engkantos, Baconaua- huge dragon sharks, etc. More links:

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o destinatio n
o bitter as this guy
o Here is a sketch of that form
o Dion Fernandez.
o like this
o This page
o 3 suitors
o Here
o Arnold Arre
o another one
o Pinoy Punk band
o More
o Pictures
o Warning: annoying midi music ahead.
o this tale
o quite tiny
o charming
o well-estab lish
o Here is a good examination
o Engkantos
o List of creatures
o Filipino folklore links
o Mythology and stories
o Categorize d stories
o A fanciful gaming site, but with a good survey of creatures from real mythology
o Even more creatures
o Also by circletimessquare


Display: Sort:
A brief introduction to Filipino folklore and mythology | 112 comments (80 topical, 32 editorial, 0 hidden)
Can I ax you a question? (3.55 / 9) (#1)
by A Proud American on Fri Jun 20, 2003 at 09:09:51 PM EST

What about voodoo?

____________________________
The weak are killed and eaten...


voodoo is african/ caribbean... why asking? (nt) (3.00 / 1) (#20)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 03:31:23 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
But (1.13 / 52) (#2)
by bayou on Fri Jun 20, 2003 at 10:17:07 PM EST

do they have slanted vaginas?

Rusty shouldn't be allowed to moderate (1.30 / 20) (#6)
by bayou on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 12:04:10 AM EST

It's like the president of the God fearing United Sates of America voting in elections. That wouldn't be very fair, would it? He would probably vote for himself. That would clearly show his bias for all to see. Ditto with rusty--he has shown his bias and I forsake him for hating me.

[ Parent ]
The only reason rusty gave that comment a zero (2.54 / 11) (#7)
by Tex Bigballs on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 12:15:51 AM EST

is because he's trying to tell you that you're not supposed to troll an article while it's still early in the editing phase. There's a high likelihood that the author will pull the article out and resubmit it and then your funny troll could be lost forever. So he's only trying to help you.

Dumbass.

[ Parent ]

Hey you (2.07 / 13) (#8)
by bayou on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 12:17:32 AM EST

I still haven't forgotten about your cunt smelling finger comment.

[ Parent ]
Hey Tex (1.90 / 11) (#14)
by lowlife on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 01:25:53 AM EST

It's me, ATM, but don't tell anyone.

Your mind begins to clear.
[ Parent ]

I bet you already know this... (4.50 / 4) (#30)
by ti dave on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 05:28:08 AM EST

the President makes a very large photo opportunity out of casting his vote.

That's been the case since the end of WW II.

I'd like to put a bullet in your head, Ti_Dave. ~DominantParadigm
[ Parent ]

Look, a slanted vagina: (1.24 / 29) (#11)
by bayou on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 12:19:50 AM EST

(c---->}

[ Parent ]
You bastard! (2.66 / 6) (#4)
by Fredrick Doulton on Fri Jun 20, 2003 at 10:54:58 PM EST

Tikbalang stole my hubcaps! :(

Bush/Cheney 2004! - "Because we've still got more people to kill"

A brief introduction to anal sex (1.07 / 64) (#15)
by lowlife on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 01:28:35 AM EST

Here's the info u wanted, rusty.
kthxbye
Some notes:
This is a strictly physical how-to guide. Anal sex is obviously not for everyone but it is my belief that if done right it can be lots of fun with a partner or with a favorite sex toy.  It is my intent to provide a step by step how-to with common sense advice, as a result this will not be even remotely erotic.

Please read the Everything2 medical disclaimer before making any decisions based on this node.

Preparation:
There are a few things that you will need before attempting this for the first time:

lubricant: some women can just move some excess vaginal lubricant down to the anus and it will work fine. But this is not the case for all women. If you aren't particularly juicy , or you're a guy, go to your local sex toy shop and pick up some lubricant. I recommend Astroglide. It's the only brand I've ever used but it works wonders and I have friends who have experimented with other brands and prefer this one. Please follow the astroglide link for more details. Spit can get you started but it doesn't generally last long. K-y is probably the best known lube but it gets sticky too quickly.
a very caring partner, or a vibrator/dildo.

Getting there:
Ok, before you even get to the point of inserting anything sizeable into your anus I recommend moistening your middle finger and lightly running it over your anus while you are masturbating or being sexually stimulated in any other way. It is very important that you don't clench it up. If you do the more sensitive part will get sucked in and it won't feel terribly interesting. This stimulation alone can feel quite good but if it doesn't to you I don't think you're going to enjoy taking it any further. Take your time with the following steps. Some people may get all the way to full anal sex the first time while some may take many times to relax enough.

Everything from this point on is dependant on you being able to relax your anus. This can be difficult the first couple times as you're whole life you've been working on keeping that hole closed. It can also depend on you feeling emotionally relaxed enough to let yourself physically relax that much in the presence of another person. Deep breathing can be very helpful in relaxing the anus. Also, just getting used to being touched there can help you to relax. It should go without saying, that you should not do this if you have to poop , unless, of course, you or your partner are into excrement. Also remember that the anus is not a sanitary environment so nothing you insert should go anywhere near a vagina without being thoroughly cleaned first. It is also very important that your fingernails are short and don't have any sharp edges. This is also a very good rule when inserting them into a vagina as long or sharp nails can create micro-lesions on the vulnerable inside walls which can lead to infection. This is not something you want in either place. Like everything else in life, take a break if it hurts and stop if you see blood.

When you are ready relax your anus and slowly insert your finger; I don't recommend moving up to anything larger yet. Go slow and use a back and forth motion to get it in. A straight push may hurt depending on how much lubricant you have and how relaxed you are. Once it's in there you'll probably be a bit tight. Just leave it there without moving it until you fully relax. The sensation can feel similar to having to poop. In my experience this goes away after the first couple times or possibly after you get to the stage of actually having anal sex. Once you have relaxed enough try moving your finger in and out and wiggling it around inside. You will start to learn what does and does not feel good for you but this is only the tip of the iceberg.

If you press your fingertip into the side near the opening yoiu should be able to feel the two sphincter muscles. They are about a quarter of an inch apart. The outside one is controlled by you. The inside one is controlled by the autonomic part of your nervous system and will react to fear and anxiety. So you really need to be comfortable with your partner and surroundings.

Moving your finger around in ther may feel interesting but not be all that you hoped for. Don't worry, the sensations get more interesting when you finally move to something larger. Some people will find this to be more than enough fun and actually more pleasurable than actual anal intercourse. Be careful what you do with that finger when you're done.

When you finally move to something larger you will find that you only want to insert it so far. After that it will start poking into uncomfortable parts. Some angles may also be uncomfortable for you. Be sure to use plenty of lube. You will generally find that , like vaginal sex, you need to start off slowly. If you're moving up to a penis be sure that you have a caring and sensitive partner with you who will pay attention to your needs. Anal sex can be uncomfortable, or even painful, if done without paying attention to what the receiver needs.

"Diet contributes to the enjoyment of anal sex. Regular bowel movements are the major function of the anus and rectum. There must be sufficient fiber in a person's diet to make his or her feces soft, bulky and well formed. This allows a bowel movement to be produced without force or effort. Forced evacuations irritate anal tissues, causing discomfort and adding to muscular tensions. Fresh fruits, vegetables, whole grains or unprocessed bran are important sources of fiber. " -sexuality.org

Now, that you know the basic mechanics let's move on to how to make the experience as pleasurable as possible.

Satisfying the anus:

with vibrator/dildos
Be careful not to turn vibrators up too high. Otherwise, your anus can go a bit numb for a while afterwards. This is because the sphincter closes much more tightly around it than a vulva usually can and thus absorbs more vibration.
with a penis:
Beware of penises that are too large. Too large is uncomfortable. Penises that are too small can occasionally get pushed out when you clench too hard. You don't have this problem with a dildo because you can hold it in. The man penetrating you won't be expecting it and will usually get pushed out at least a little bit.
as long as you are lubricated you shouldn't notice a difference between a penis with or without a condom in terms of friction.
with either:
Most of the sensation for you and your partner comes from the sphincter muscles at the opening. In and out motion can be very stimulating here, the more the better. Like vaginal sex, really fast is a completely different sensation from really slow. Just be sure to not poke in to far or at the wrong angle. Like vaginal sex there really isn't that much to it. It's simple, and fun.
Doggie Style is not the only position you can do this in. Some people find lying on their backs with their butt and lower back propped up with pillows to be a great position for receiving. You can also do it while spooning, bent over a table, riding your lovers penis, or strap-on, or any other position that sounds interesting to you.
If the receiver here is a male don't forget to stimulate the prostate "which is just beyond the rectal wall, a few inches in, towards the front of the body - can be a source of pleasure when massaged by a finger, an object, or a penis. Also, the lower end of the penis, or "bulb," is near the anal opening opening. It is stimulated indirectly by most types of anal sex" -sexuality.org
after orgasm some people find it uncomfortable to keep anything inserted into them.

Satisfying the penis and man:

Clenching your anus can enhance the sensation for a man penetrating you
The greater their range of motion the more stimulating it is for them. So, the more deeply they can move in and out the better.
Men generally find anal sex to be very pleasurable because of how tight it can get, so don't forget to squeeze.
Some men also find it visually stimulating with a doggie style position because , unlike with vaginal sex, they can see everything that is going on.
Some men also find the taboo of not using a condom (which I don't recommend for many reasons) to be a turn on. There is of course the whole argument about it being more sensitive without one but I will leave that up to you.
Afterwards:

Obviously be sure to thoroughly clean off anything you've inserted before it touches anything. You may want to have a washcloth or saran wrap or paper towel nearby to set your dildos on without having to get up wash stuff in the middle of
If you want to go quickly from anal sex to vaginal sex just be sure to have condoms on your partner or dildo and change them between orifices.
When you're all done you may feel a warm, almost tingly, sensation for up to 30 minutes afterwards. Not everyone experiences this and it isn't a bad feeling at all. You may also feel like pooping. It seems that sometimes that much action seems to set things in motion and you end up going sooner than you would normally expect.
Common Questions:

Isn't it dirty? Not really so long as you have pooped recently and/or don't feel you'll have to go any time soon. But, remember that sooner or later you are bound to encounter a little piece of brown. Don't get freaked. It 's not going to hurt you and if the penis in question wore a condom it will have never actually come into contact. Your dildo/vibrator won't care in the least.

Will it hurt? Not if done correctly.

Can I come from anal sex alone? Yes, well, some of you will be able to but we're actually a minority. Most people will also need some genital stimulation to reach orgasm.

What about condoms? Use 'em. Just because you can't get pregnant this way (under most circumstances) doesn't mean you can't catch a disease this way.

Will I go to hell for this? Only if you die before you make it to confession.
Is this really illegal? In America almost every sex act that isn't heterosexual missionary position sex is illegal . I can't comment on other countries.

What about analingus/rimming? That's another node entirely. I'll link to it once I get it written.

From: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=762128

Your mind begins to clear.

I'm shocked (3.33 / 3) (#62)
by Silent Chris on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 09:16:58 PM EST

"Well, not that shocked." - Fry, from Futurama.

[ Parent ]
This is no good (5.00 / 3) (#92)
by CwazyWabbit on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:08:21 PM EST

Where are the bits about supposedly drunken rugby players and squeezing your taker's tits until they call you "Daddy"? This guide will give people entirely the wrong idea about anal sex. I am disgusted by your disinformation campaign.
--
"But here's the thing: if people hand me ammunition, what kind of misanthrope would I be if I didn't use it?" - Sarah-Katherine
[ Parent ]
filipino culture is interesting (4.00 / 2) (#18)
by gt3 on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 03:29:32 AM EST

Nice article. I've only really read about the history and folklore of Filipino Martial Arts, like balisong butterfly knife, yo-yo's and stick fighting, which is also very interesting.

I have no idea were to fit this. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
by wumpus on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 03:53:13 PM EST

But a poster from the Philippines on rec.martial-arts around 1991 had a long description about witchcraft and the importance of avoiding it. The most memorable part about it was the difficulty in burying a witch. Apparently you either had to use cremation or a special ceremony because otherwise the earth itself would "reject" the witch and spit him out of the grave.

Note that the poster was apparently Islamic. I have no idea what effect that has on witchcraft traditions.

Wumpus

[ Parent ]

Fascinating. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Akshay on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 05:19:56 AM EST

I'd love to learn more of course! +1, FP.

Incidentally, your article gives enough gist to prove this guy wrong, particularly where he says that the Philippines is the only South East Asian country not to be affected by Indic culture in the early 5-6th century AD.

That is obviously false, proved not only by the fact that the Tagalog script was derived from the 4th century Brahmi script, but also by the (Tagalog?) word, "diwata", clearly influenced by the Sanskrit "deevata", a sort of demi-god.

indeed (none / 0) (#29)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 05:25:34 AM EST

before the spanish came to the philippines, there was sanskrit-based writing systems there. i have seen the centuries-old preserved tree bark with the pre-spanish markings with my own eyes in museums. it looks like sanskrit to me.


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
cognates do not indicate a relationship (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by guyjin on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 02:55:25 PM EST

I'm not saying what you are saying is false, but cognates don't neccesarily indicate a relationship beteween languages.

English and persian, which are only distantly related, both use the word 'bad' to mean similar things. An aboriginal language and english both use the word 'dog' to refer to canines, but the two are not related at all (and they did not simply pick up the word from the english).

And nearly every language in the world uses some variation of "ma", usually a baby's first word, to refer to mothers.
-- 散弾銃でおうがいして ください
[ Parent ]

Mother exceptions (just for fun) (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by fraise on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 05:20:49 PM EST

A couple of the exceptions: in Finnish, mother/mom is "aiti"! Pronounced "aye-tee" (aye as in "eye", the letter "i"). It's very cute - and a bit weird if you're not Finnish - when babies say "aiti". There's also "haha", "ofukuro", "kaa-san" and the more respectful version "okaa-san" in Japanese. Though nowadays some Japanese parents are called "mama" and "papa" (recent development).

[ Parent ]
Interesting. (none / 0) (#77)
by Akshay on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:29:43 AM EST

Just to add three more:- 'talli', 'janani' in Telugu and 'taai' in Tamil.

Admittedly, 'amma' is the more popular version in Telugu, which presumably was derived from the Sanskrit 'maata' (so did the Hindi 'maa'). 'Janani' is also, I believe, either acceptable in Sanskrit or is a Sanskrit word in itself; the ancient Telugus had weird rules here, they believed that any Sanskrit word was acceptable in Telugu.

I guess that kinda explains my bias; after seeing that the Tagalog script was derived from the ancient Brahmi script, and after listening to possible Sanskrit-inspired Malay words such as 'naama' (name), 'bahasa' ('bhaasha' == language), 'bahaya' ('bhaya' == fear) etc., I had automatically presumed that the Tagalog 'diwata' also derived itself from its Sanskrit equivalent.

[ Parent ]

english "devotee"? (none / 0) (#47)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 04:22:31 PM EST

xompletely random thought, perhaps completely random connection... just a thinking out loud

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
OED has this to say. (none / 0) (#76)
by Akshay on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:17:37 AM EST

[An Eng. formation, from DEVOTE v. or a. + -EE, after words like assignee, refugee, etc., in which this suffix came historically from Fr. -é of the pa. pple. Devotee may be looked upon as a re-fashioning of the n. DEVOTE, which was formerly used in the same sense: devote and devotee were used indifferently from c 1675 to 1725. (Cf. assign and assignee.) In early instances, writers or printers sometimes made devotée, as if a French feminine: cf. DEVOTÉ.] 

This for 'devote':- f. L. dvt-, ppl. stem of dvovre to vow, dedicate by a vow, devote, f. DE- I. 2 + vovre to vow, dedicate: cf. also the L. frequentative dvtre, in med.L. much used for dvovre.

My knowledge of Sanskrit etymology is rather limited, but 'devata' seems to be derived from the same source as 'dev', the Hindi suffix for 'god'.

I guess it's the cognates-not-indicating-a-relationship thing that guyjins was mentioning earlier.

[ Parent ]

Chap with the cigar (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Three Pi Mesons on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 07:18:54 AM EST

What's the history of smoking in the Philippines - and is that a tobacco cigar, or something else? How old is the kapre story? The link you gave suggested a connection with the conquistadors, at least as regards the name. I'm just surprised to see a cigar in a mythological context.

:: "Every problem in the world can be fixed with either flowers, or duct tape, or both." - illuzion
i totally agree (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 04:15:19 PM EST

tobacco is clearly a native american invention- sow what is it doing in philippine mythology?

under the spanish, colonial philippines and colonial mexico were pretty strongly linked, so i can guess that since the spanish gave the word for the creature, they loaned something else to the kapre too

under the link of more creatures in my story, you see kapre go under a variety of names in a variety of places throughout the philippines... some with and without cigars... so it's just a matter of one meme taking precedence over another with the spanish influence for perhaps totally arbirtrary reasons

i mean,  when we think of italy we think of pasta and tomato sauce- tomatoes from the new world

when we think of vienna we think of coffee- coffee being from yemen

we think of tea drinking as quintessentially english.. which is a loan from india, etc...

so i think the filipino kapre can do with a cigar or two ;-P


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

They had a Johnny Quest episode... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by debacle on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 07:21:14 AM EST

About one of those wakwak vampire things, or whatever. It was pretty sweet. The Indian dude was totally taken over by the bitch, and then Johnny got hurt, and that redheaded girl had to save his ass.

And yeah, I'm talking about the newer ones, not the older ones where all they did was follow rocket men and black circles with needle legs.

JQ is sweet, and, thusly, +1 for the great article.

It tastes sweet.

K00l (1.50 / 8) (#43)
by Hide The Hamster on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 11:02:46 AM EST

I await your next installment: Social traditions of African Pygmies on the Subject of Marriage.


Free spirits are a liability.

August 8, 2004: "it certainly is" and I had engaged in a homosexual tryst.

lol lol rofl rofl yukyukyuk!!!!!!! (1.00 / 1) (#49)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 04:30:52 PM EST

yawn

tell us when you graduate 10th grade


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Manananggal or Penanggalan? (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by danceswithcrows on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 06:44:45 PM EST

I've heard of the Manananggal, and so have thousands of other folks who played AD&D at some point... except the creature was called a Penanggalan in the Fiend Folio and several other places on the Web. ISTR the Penanggalan was mentioned in a book called "The Vampire Encyclopedia", which was a compilation of vampire legends from many sources. Interesting read if you're into that kind of thing. Anyway, is the Manananggal/Penanggalan thing a transliteration artifact, like Qaddafi/Khadafi, or are these variants of the same creature? I don't recall the AD&D book or the Vampire Encyclopedia mentioning the Penanggalan feeding off pregnant women exclusively; both sources said that it fed on males and females alike.

Is "Dwende" similar to the Mexican "duendes"? I was unaware of the other mythological beasts mentioned. I don't know that the Philippines need scary critters in mythology though, since scary things are routinely served up as bar food there. Thanks for bringing this to k5's attention!

Matt G (aka Dances With Crows) There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see

Article.. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
by zml on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 01:00:24 AM EST

The first sentence regarding the Manananggal says: Manananggal are similar to Pennangalan in Malaysia, to which the Philippines is linguistically and culturally related. So it sounds like it's more of a cross-cultural name drift as opposed to a transliteration artifact.

[ Parent ]
weird syncronicity. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
by fn0rd on Tue Jun 24, 2003 at 11:48:24 AM EST

The first time I ever heard of baluk eggs was last night, while watching Fear Factor. There was no reference to the dish's country of origin. They didn't look so bad to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------
This fatwa brought to you by the Agnostic Jihad
Death to the fidels!

[ Parent ]
For D&Ders - (5.00 / 1) (#105)
by locke baron on Thu Jun 26, 2003 at 03:15:08 AM EST

Penanggalan are back in Rokugan (the L5R adaptation) - definitely some nasty buggers. Oh, and White Wolf has a take on them too. Kuei-Jin who have Flesh Shintai can become penanggalan of a sort. So yeah, by my experience in folklore-based stuff, they're the best-known Filipino/Malaysian monster.

Micro$oft uses Quake clannies to wage war on Iraq! - explodingheadboy
[ Parent ]
Vedic influence? (none / 0) (#56)
by gmol on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 06:49:06 PM EST

There is a diffuse smearing out of vedic mythology (character stories etc.) from India across through Indo-China, does the indegnous Phillpine culture share any of this influence as Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand etc. do?

yes (none / 0) (#73)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 07:59:03 AM EST

and visa versa

cultures influence each other, and historical geographic neighbors have overlapping mythologies

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Not always vice versa (none / 0) (#83)
by gmol on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 09:39:20 PM EST

There is probably a much older indgenous culture in Indo China (that I don't know much about), but it is I believe part of the reason it is called Indo-China is becuase the culture is derived from India and China.  As far as I know, Phillipino culture has had virtually nil influence on India.

But it would be cool if there was an example...

[ Parent ]

yes but (none / 0) (#84)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:11:27 PM EST

you are not making any friends amongst filipinos by suggesting that their cultural mythology is borrowed from other places

cultural pride dictates you should be denounced for your line of reasoning

filipino mythology is amazing and interesting in its own right, and has no one to thank for it's existence except filipinos

to try to coopt it under the guise of historical reinterpretation is nothing but cultural imperialism of a different guise, and you should be ashamed of yourself

india and china are much larger neighbors of the philippines, and in their huge hulking size, i would fully expect them to crush their neighbor's cultures as globalization progresses,  but don't expect to see any happiness in the process or any help from me in your dubious pursuits

show respect for other cultures and don't try to coopt them in the name of historical reinterpretation

to do that reveals an underlying lack of faith in your own culture: to have to depend upon the historical coopting of other people's cultures in order to increase the pride you have in your own

you can have pride in your own culture without the necessity of lessening the value of the cultures around yours... this is a road to suffering

in fact cultural and nationalistic chauvinism exactly like that is the source of much suffering in the world today and throughout history

i am not calling you evil or anything, but i am just asking you to recognize the seeds of cultural imperialism in your line of thinking, and to abandon it

live and let live, that's what i say


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I suspected.... (none / 0) (#87)
by gmol on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:24:16 AM EST

that was the sentiment behind the original response; I was going to put in a "not to subsume or anything" disclaimer, but I thought it would be silly to do so, as it was a fair question without a hint of nationalistic chauvanism.


you are not making any friends amongst filipinos by suggesting that their cultural mythology is borrowed from other places

Sad but true. But how in the world could anyone make such a suggestion without of course recognizing that "other places" borrowed their mytholgy from yet "other places".  

Indic myths are a clear mix of ideas from the Aryan kingdom and the indegenous Dravidian culture.  How much of Filipino myth is from Chinese/Indic and Spanish influence...and does any surivive from the indegenous culture?

filipino mythology is amazing and interesting in its own right, and has no one to
thank for it's existence except filipinos

 to try to coopt it under the guise of historical reinterpretation is nothing but cultural imperialism of a different guise, and you should be ashamed of yourself

Well from you've written, it seems like a very common brand of folk mythology.  Current day Filipino's may be it's current carriers, but they do have to thank culture's which gave the inspiration for these myths to them.

And who the hell is co-opting?  I was genuinely curious, as I really don't know about how much the  culture relates to other parts of Indo-China..


 in fact cultural and nationalistic chauvinism exactly like that is the source of much suffering in the world today and throughout history

Not recognizing that we (and most of our damn stories) are all branches on a cultural tree, but are from divinely ordained geographic borders is a bigger problem if you ask me.

[ Parent ]

agreed (none / 0) (#88)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 02:45:11 AM EST

so stop calling what is mine, yours

you are the one who claimed one-way cultural diffusion in your post above

so we can start thinking about the cultures of the world as everyone's inheritance when you stop claiming one-way inheritance

There is probably a much older indgenous culture in Indo China (that I don't know much about), but it is I believe part of the reason it is called Indo-China is becuase the culture is derived from India and China.  As far as I know, Phillipino culture has had virtually nil influence on India.

yes, a lot of ethnocentric musings with no supportive anecdotes. maybe you should find examples, and then theorize, instead of thinking aloud and throwing ethnocentric ideas out there with no supporting evidence

Well from you've written, it seems like a very common brand of folk mythology.

show some respect for other cultures

filipino Manananggal and malaysian Pennangalan are rather bizarre and unique, not common in any way

show me where they are derived from some other culture first, then you may restart your ethnocentric musings

otherwise, these myths seem uniquely malay to me, no? until you show otherwise, what is the purpose of your line of thought? what you do is show the theory first, without any evidence... the only effect of this is that your ethnocentric motivation shines through

if you show evidence first, then throw out a theory, you are clean of motives, but that is not the case right now with your line of thought, so you should abandon it, as it is not a line of thought you should be very proud of

and if you truly believe filipino folklore is so "common" you wouldn't be interested in talking about it anyways, right? so goodbye then already, as you only seem capable of heaping more insults and ethnocentrism with each post


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You know, that's exactly the question... (none / 0) (#78)
by Akshay on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:40:15 AM EST

...I was trying to answer when I began reading this.

I can't say from the mythology description given here, but yes, it's rather fascinating to see the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, to take two random examples, being popular in SE Asia. (Admittedly, Ramayana/Mahabharata aren't quite Vedic; just to illustrate your point).

As someone with a spiritual interest in Advaita, I find this question to be engaging for a different reason; we can, presumably, answer questions related to Rama-worship in India. You see, while the Ramayana is popular in SE Asia, it's mostly considered as a heady moral tale with family politics, adventure, magic, fantasy and, of course, the inevitable good-wins-over-evil subplot. It is not a religious text, at least, not to the extent it is in India. I believe it's an interesting question to ask why.

Okay, this was neither on-topic nor comprehensive nor coherent, :-), but just to point out why I believe even people interested in Indic myths should look at SE Asia's mythistory.

[ Parent ]

Good Article (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by PhillipW on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 07:43:03 PM EST

I knew this filipino girl once that fit the description you gave of the Manananggal almost perfectly. She wasn't vampire by night though, only when you got to know her, and she tended to suck will to live rather than blood. Maybe they aren't a myth after all.

That aside, very good article. I tend to find the mythology of other culture much more interesting than I do American mythology. I don't know why, but other cultures seem to be much more fun with their myths. Maybe it has something to do with them being so old, when people really honestly didn't know how to explain things. Whereas America is fairly young, and capable of explaining just about everything we came across in a scientific way.

-Phil
Borderlines (4.00 / 2) (#81)
by epepke on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 02:10:15 PM EST

The description of Manananggal sounds to me a lot like Borderline Personality Disorder. I wonder how many characters in mythology can be worked out to represent personifications of disorders that really exist.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Hmmm (none / 0) (#82)
by PhillipW on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 03:35:51 PM EST

I've never actually thought about it before, but it makes really good sense...

-Phil
[ Parent ]
You forgot to mention The greatest Filipnio myth (1.05 / 17) (#59)
by Nigga on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 08:08:51 PM EST

It's actually of western origin regarding Filipinas in that they are all mostly pretty fuckin fine. In reality though, the vast majority of filipinas are nasty, gross, ugly, funky, and just downright hideous. With about .05% of filipinas just being INSANELY FUCKIN FINE! It's so strange because there's no like gray area.. in between like there's no sorta hot filipinas... they're either disgustingly hideous are some of the finest shit you've ever seen. Wait, was jessica alba filipina? I speak of her in the past tense because she fucked her career up pretty bad when she decided to target her babe-aliciousness to nerds in that dark angel bullshit. Yawn how boring was that show? Fucking nerd entertainment man. Anyways, the point is the vast majority of other asian countries have a normal ratio of hot to not hot chicks, and you should go teach english there... and read about their folklore... so you don't end up always sticking your dick into a chubby filipina.

They're insanely christian over there now too I hear.

--------
The fuck happened to Nigga?

it's just a pretty silly stereotype, quite frankly (none / 0) (#69)
by tweetsygalore on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 02:50:40 AM EST


not that i can't or don't appreciate beauty, filipinos or otherwise: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/12/14162/4549 .

best
C
After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan
[ Parent ]

Nessecary Simpsons quote: (none / 0) (#60)
by faustus on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 08:23:57 PM EST

Comic Boy Guy: "No! No, freakin' kids. I do not need this, I've got a masters degree in folklore mythology."

Game Ka Na Ba? (none / 0) (#61)
by buck on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 08:43:51 PM EST

Game Na!
-----
“You, on the other hand, just spew forth your mental phlegmwads all over the place and don't have the goddamned courtesy to throw us a tissue afterwards.” -- kitten
Anong Gusto Mo? (nt) (none / 0) (#63)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 09:20:32 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
you guys are goofy (none / 0) (#68)
by tweetsygalore on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 02:43:26 AM EST


kanino kayo nagmana?  haha.  :D

best
C
After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan
[ Parent ]

I love Tagalog. (4.00 / 1) (#64)
by radicalskptc on Sat Jun 21, 2003 at 09:30:58 PM EST

To me, Tagalog is the coolest language on Earth, easily. It sounds great and looks cool. Do you know what their phrase for sex is? "Ang pagkalalaki o pagkababae." ELEVEN SYLLABLES LONG! For "sex"! Imagine how long their word for "foreplay" must be! Here's a bad/free Tagalog/English dictionary: http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/Tagalog/default.htm

i looked up the word in the dictionary (none / 0) (#67)
by tweetsygalore on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 02:39:48 AM EST


apparently, the translation doesn't exist.  :D

best
C
After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan
[ Parent ]

Are you sure? (none / 0) (#107)
by onemorechip on Fri Jun 27, 2003 at 11:00:32 PM EST

"Ang pagkalalaki o pagkababae"

"Ang" = the "lalaki" = man "o" = or "babae" = woman

I'm not sure what effect the "pagka" has on the nouns "lalaki" and "babae". Prefixes and infixes abound in Tagalog and could convert a root word (no pun intended) into a verb, an adjective, a different noun.

I don't think that entire phrase means "sex"; more likely your dictionary is giving two alternative words depending on the situation.
--------------------------------------------------

In a democracy, the government has no rights, only permission. A government that has rights is a dictator
[ Parent ]

Clarif (none / 0) (#111)
by roytang on Sat Jul 05, 2003 at 04:16:23 PM EST

"Pagkalalaki" or "pagkababae" means simply "manhood" or "womanhood", and depending on usage could refer to one's sex organs, or perhaps his masculinity/femininity.

If by "sex", you mean "sexual intercourse", the closer word would be "talik", a verb which literally means "to have sex with" Variations include:

pakikipagtalik = the act of having sex with
nakikipagtalik = having sex with
pagtatalik = the act of having sex
etc.

The more vulgar form of the verb is "kantot" (which is closer to the English "fuck") with the variations:

kinakantot = fucking a specific person/thing
nagkakantutan = fucking (each other) i.e. "Nagkakantutan silang dalawa." = The two of them are fucking.
etc.

As for foreplay, I'm not sure if there's a Tagalog word for it...I've pretty much always referred to it as "foreplay."

[ Parent ]

What's your interest in all of this? (5.00 / 1) (#66)
by Wayfarer on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 02:21:06 AM EST

To wit, how did you end up with an interest in Filipino folklore?

I find that the stories authors tell about the origins of their articles tend to be just as interesting as the articles themselves.  ^_^

-W-

"Is it all journey, or is there landfall?"
-Ellison & van Vogt, "The Human Operators"


the spark of the idea (5.00 / 2) (#72)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 07:57:09 AM EST

i'm dating a visayan from ormoc city and i have been hanging out with her and her visayan friends alot recently we got to talking about siquijor and then manananggal and all that

european mythology, god bless it's soul, seems to have been completely whored out by pop culture, movies, tv, books, etc.,  and just ceases to interest me anymore

meanwhile, the philippines has always seemed to have a had a completely untapped, underexposed, rich and fresh folklore, and i just totally fell for it all over again recently...

so i thought, "hey, let's punt this over to kuro5hin, i bet they'd just lap it up" ;-)

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Ah, the pursuit of women... (none / 0) (#79)
by Akshay on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:44:09 AM EST

...you never know where it leads to. B-)

[ Parent ]
Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by salvadorange on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 03:48:47 AM EST

Hello! I thought your culture piece was awesome. I have an incredible interest in Filipino culture, as I have done Filipino folk dancing for several years. Also, the anthropology aspect was very cool. Did you dig all that info up for specific research, or have you always known it? Let me know please, and if you did research it, I'd love your resources.
Salvador Naranja
they are all there (none / 0) (#71)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 07:49:48 AM EST

the internet links above

the spark of the idea that got me writing the story was from talking about filipino myths wiith a bunch of visayans recently

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Tikbalang pictures (none / 0) (#74)
by edo on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 07:59:52 AM EST

Am I the only one who was disappointed to find out that the promised Tikbalang pictures were of the band, not of the beast? Oh well. Very interesting little article, otherwise. Any more mythology/folklore buffs out there willing to write an article?
-- 
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
 - Oscar Wilde
here's one (none / 0) (#75)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 08:04:18 AM EST

http://onmyoshi.freeservers.com/tikbalang.html

sorry ;-)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

when i regress (none / 0) (#80)
by the sixth replicant on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 01:58:00 PM EST

back to playing D&D and I suddenly meet a reverse minotaur with some cigar smoking tree by its side that my western forged +3 sword can't touch..I know who to blame :)

"Aswang" (1.50 / 2) (#85)
by mcgrew on Sun Jun 22, 2003 at 10:17:30 PM EST

"Aswang"- now that is a hilarious cross-language pun! It's almost as good as Thailand's "Fuckit Island" (spelled "Phu-ket" on an atlas; remember, they have a different alphabet).

Anybody else have any good cross-language puns? Besides "nose" and "nova?"

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie

bangcock, thighland yukyuk grow up (nt) (1.00 / 1) (#86)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 12:09:47 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
thailand... (none / 0) (#90)
by Run4YourLives on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:03:52 PM EST

it's tie-land, not thigh-land, so that one doesn't quite work.

It's slightly Japanese, but without all of that fanatical devotion to the workplace. - CheeseburgerBrown
[ Parent ]
i KNOW i wasn't giving it much THOUGHT (nt) (none / 0) (#91)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:04:43 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
But Bankok works /nt (none / 0) (#95)
by mcgrew on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 05:58:53 PM EST


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

There's something about East Asian folklore (5.00 / 1) (#89)
by nebbish on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 11:30:39 AM EST

It seems to have the most imaginative mythical creatures. When I was a kid I was fascinated by Japanese Kappa (I forget all about it until it was brought back to me playing Shenmue II on the Dreamcast!).

And you don't get much scarier than Chinese ghosts.

Great article, really interesting.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

Kapp'n! (5.00 / 1) (#102)
by Lai Lai Boy on Wed Jun 25, 2003 at 03:07:14 PM EST

Don't forget Kapp'n in Animal Crossing, though they make him say he's a turtle in the U.S. Version :(

[Posted from Mozilla Firebird]
[ Parent ]

Unfortunately... (none / 0) (#106)
by nebbish on Thu Jun 26, 2003 at 05:04:36 AM EST

Despite me being a massive GameCube fan, it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to play Animal Crossing as it isn't going to be available here in the UK. Might be a good reason for me to get that import boot disc...

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

This is excellent (4.00 / 2) (#93)
by CwazyWabbit on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:14:29 PM EST

+ 1FP You have rekindled my own interest in mythologies, thanks. I'm sure I have read about similar creatures in other cultures' myths - do you have any idea about cross-pollination of myths between cultures, and possibly how the creatures you describe entered Filipino lore and where they could have gone from there? Or how I could go about finding out about it?
--
"But here's the thing: if people hand me ammunition, what kind of misanthrope would I be if I didn't use it?" - Sarah-Katherine
Oops (none / 0) (#94)
by CwazyWabbit on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 01:17:04 PM EST

Forgot I was looking at a posted story.
--
"But here's the thing: if people hand me ammunition, what kind of misanthrope would I be if I didn't use it?" - Sarah-Katherine
[ Parent ]
Folklore and the Catholic Church (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by lpret on Mon Jun 23, 2003 at 10:15:07 PM EST

I'm an American but I lived in the Philippines for 12 years, mostly in Manila, but in Batangas a few years. The thing that always was fascinating to me was how Catholic beliefs were assimilated into the local belief system. This is standard of most countries that Spain was colonizing at the time (ie Latin America) and what is interesting is to see the similarities between the Filipino/Catholic folklore and the Bolivian/Catholic folklore for instance. It's as if Catholicism validated the folklore and allowed it to survive much longer.

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. - Greek proverb

how catholicism survives, maybe? (none / 0) (#97)
by livus on Tue Jun 24, 2003 at 02:57:40 AM EST

I think it might be that catholicism (perhaps because of the older religions it absorbed) sort of resonates with lots of indigenous beliefs, which is how it does so well as a religion.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Voodoo is an excellent example of this (nt) (none / 0) (#98)
by nebbish on Tue Jun 24, 2003 at 08:42:42 AM EST


---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

christmas trees (1.00 / 1) (#99)
by circletimessquare on Tue Jun 24, 2003 at 10:57:03 AM EST

there are many examples of what you are saying

but i don't think the situation is so magnanimous that the mightly benevolent church looks down from above on the lovely cultures and, what did you say? "validates the folklore allows them to survive much longer?"

oh really? lol ;-P how magnanimous and benevolent

reality check dude

gee, i wonder what is killing the cultures in the first place? gee, what grand cultural colonialism is INVALIDATING the folklore to begin with?

reality is more like the church crushes cultures in it's maw, and the people preserve what they want to, in SPITE OF of the church, and the church must begrudging accept the culture' existence...

that sounds more realistic, no?

please!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You got it the other way backwards. (5.00 / 1) (#103)
by Tezcatlipoca on Wed Jun 25, 2003 at 08:07:35 PM EST

Catholicism did not allowed local beliefs to continue.

Local beliefs allowed Catholicism to take root.

This is not an attempt to rewite history, it is what experience says when you are immerse in such a culture.

In Mexico shamans, spiritism, and plain superstition are a natural part of Catholicism derived from the religions that existed before the Spaniards conquered the land. The organization of the church brought by the conquerors was imposed, but the beliefs remained there.

Might is right
Freedom? Which freedom?
[ Parent ]

thank you (none / 0) (#104)
by circletimessquare on Wed Jun 25, 2003 at 09:09:20 PM EST

for a breath of fresh air and truth

according to catholic chauvinism, the fucking church willed latin america into existence out of the sea or something ;-P

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You can't really say for sure one way or the other (5.00 / 1) (#108)
by jolly st nick on Sat Jun 28, 2003 at 07:32:06 AM EST

Myths tend to mate and have hybrid offspring, and these cultural offspring show the same kind of hybrid vigor that a biological hybrid has.

The church has an ideology that says their faith has been handed down in pure form from the original Apostles. However we shouldn't take that at face value. Premodern Western Christianity had a powerful talent for syncretism which permitted its spread into pagan lands.

[ Parent ]

this is nice (5.00 / 1) (#101)
by chashiineriiya on Wed Jun 25, 2003 at 08:41:33 AM EST

i'm from hk but i've lived in the philippines ever since I was born... am studying in an int'l school there. a story about filipino folklore is really great to see on here :) i remember being told the story about the ibong adarna on mt. makiling... its a really scary story every time I hear it

Always Good To Come Across a New Subject (5.00 / 1) (#109)
by t reductase on Sun Jun 29, 2003 at 09:30:25 PM EST

A lot of times the same old questions with no really new inputs get debated endlessly. I at least was unfamiliar with this area. So I thought the article was good.

Mysterious title (none / 0) (#110)
by t reductase on Fri Jul 04, 2003 at 11:51:40 PM EST

This is Japanese anime. This has the same relationship to indigenous Philipino culture Pecos Bill does.

what is japanese anime here? huh? (nt) (none / 0) (#112)
by circletimessquare on Fri Jul 11, 2003 at 03:35:02 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
A brief introduction to Filipino folklore and mythology | 112 comments (80 topical, 32 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest © 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!