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[P]
Subway Sandwiches: "Warum sind die Amis so fett?"

By eejit in Culture
Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:27:22 AM EST
Tags: Food (all tags)
Food

That would be "Why are the Yanks so fat?" to you and I.

This was the slogan used in Germany for a recent Subway/Super Size Me joint advertising campaign. Accompanying the advert was a rounded looking image (full size) of the Statue of Liberty carrying burgers and fries.

Did Subway go too far in this campaign, or were they unfairly vilified for their jest?


The movie, Super Size Me, was released in Germany last month. At the same time, Subway began running advertisements which promote the film, which were placed on the food packaging in the store.

The film is basically the diary of filmmaker Morgan Spurlock's experiment to live for a month on a diet consisting solely of McDonald's food. It quickly became a cult success, winning an award at the Sundance Film Festival in the Best Directing category. However, it also attracted a fair bit of controversy as one would probably imagine when such a topic is raised. Throughout the film, it's probably fair to say that it doesn't exactly show fast-food restaurants in a positive light, but having said that, Subway does come off relatively well as a 'healthier' option.

The advertisement used by Subway showed the standard German version of the Super Size Me film poster enclosed within a Subway commercial. Accompanying the poster is a short article entitled "Warum sind die Amis so fett?" along with an image showing an overweight Statue of Liberty clutching a hamburger and fries. A translation of the article can be found within the NLPS article, which is discussed later.

("Amis" in German is used as a somewhat derogatory name for Americans, similar to the British term, "Yanks".)

Used soley in German Subways, this advert nonetheless provoked outraged complaints from certain segments of the American public.

US House Majority Leader Tom DeLay went as far as issuing a statement against Subway stating, "It is clear that Subway has done very well for decades due to the patronage of Americans. For Subway to thumb its nose at its American customers and promote Michael Moore's blame-America-first conspiracy in a foreign country is very concerning."

Tom DeLay wasn't the only person upset by the advert. Predictions of plummeting subway sales were made, albeit rather hastily. The National League and Policy Center also called for the advertising campaign to end, with Chairman Ken Boehn declaring, "Subway has defined a new low in corporate behavior with this campaign. Inflaming cultural tensions to increase market share is immoral and dangerous. Americans deserve to know about Subway's campaign to insult us abroad and to attack our national symbols."

The Center for Individual Freedom also seems to take offence, charging Subway with "a shameless anti-American effort to increase sales in Europe".

It seems that Subway eventually succumbed to the complaints and withdrew the offending advert (Signup required to view link) from all its German restaurants. More information on the withdrawal here.

It's interesting to note that this isn't the first time Subway has come under fire for 'anti-american' adverts, an article here talks about a previous advert that contained an uncanny resemblence to the 9/11 attacks.

I'm interested if the withdrawal of said advert, in this age of Free Speech, is justified? Certainly, it went over the top, but was it so over the top to warrant the apparant outrage from certain groups?

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Poll
Advert withdrawal:
o Quite right too! 10%
o Tad unfair. 44%
o What about Free Speech! 44%

Votes: 69
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o rounded looking image
o full size
o Super Size Me
o controvers y
o Tom DeLay
o against Subway
o plummeting subway sales
o National League and Policy Center
o called for
o Center for Individual Freedom
o withdrew the offending advert
o here
o here [2]
o Also by eejit


Display: Sort:
Subway Sandwiches: "Warum sind die Amis so fett?" | 379 comments (356 topical, 23 editorial, 0 hidden)
I thought that Yanks was universal... (1.80 / 5) (#4)
by bobpence on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:02:44 PM EST

so the Krauts should know it. Now the next question is, why are the Jerry's such blockheads?
"Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious." - Bender
Kind of. (3.00 / 4) (#5)
by caine on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:10:22 PM EST

They probably know it, but there's probably some kind of German-version too. In Sweden Yanks are called "jänkare" with "jänk" being similar sounding to "yank".

--

[ Parent ]

Origins (3.00 / 2) (#6)
by eejit on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:14:36 PM EST

It's possible "Amis" simply comes from the German word "Amerikaner", meaning "American".

[ Parent ]
German uniformity (3.00 / 4) (#11)
by bobpence on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:25:46 PM EST

IIRC most nationalities are formed the same way in German. Let me Babelfish some of the types of restaurants I've been too over there...

Amerikanisch. Australisch. Chinesisch. Englisch. Französisch. Indisch. Italienisch. Japanisch. Jüdisch. Koreanisch. Pakistanisch. Spanisch.

Yep, always with the -isch, where we Yanks would us -an, -ese, -ish, and so on. So once you learn how to insult a Pakistani ("Pakis") they just use the same on Americans. Oh, and I didn't really eat in that many different types of restaurants; the Germans are not nearly that cosmopolitisch.


"Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious." - Bender
[ Parent ]

You know, your insult would have style (3.00 / 3) (#115)
by wobblywizard on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:35:46 AM EST

and for the most part does, if only you'd have written "kosmopolitisch" correctly. Otherwise very nice.

[ Parent ]
I assumed it meant "Amish" (nt) (3.00 / 5) (#47)
by Delirium on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 09:25:07 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Eh yes, that was kind of obvious? (none / 1) (#103)
by caine on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:00:18 AM EST

Sorry, since I speak a little German that was very much glaringly obvious to me, didn't realize it wasn't for everyone ;)

--

[ Parent ]

Also I'm so mad at Subway... (2.50 / 4) (#7)
by bobpence on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:14:58 PM EST

... that I probably won't go there for six months. Again. Really, lousy bread and bland sandwiches presented with greasy bagged potato chips and flat fountain soda is far more effective than a call to boycott at reducing my patronage.

It's kind of like when I got pissed at the Dixie Hags. Yeah, publically trashing your government on foreign soil is not good etiquette, but ruining a perfectly good song like Landslide is completely inexcusable.


"Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious." - Bender
[ Parent ]

Ja, Nur Dumbkopfen wurden nicht Janken sagen! nt (none / 1) (#19)
by nlscb on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:22:20 PM EST


Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

AMI GO HOME! (2.00 / 5) (#20)
by wireless orc on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:28:17 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Yeah, their BIOS stinks anyway (nt) (3.00 / 2) (#84)
by Ranieri on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:08:28 AM EST


--
Taste cold steel, feeble cannon restraint rope!
[ Parent ]
In Australia (none / 1) (#223)
by fleece on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:12:52 PM EST

we say sepos

Sepo -> Septic Tank -> Yank



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
That's SepPpos. Two p's. (3.00 / 2) (#345)
by Russell Dovey on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 02:36:13 AM EST


"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
[ Parent ]

Fuck. nt (none / 0) (#346)
by Russell Dovey on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 02:36:43 AM EST


"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
[ Parent ]

yes, yes! (none / 0) (#347)
by fleece on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 07:28:25 AM EST





I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
Yeah (none / 0) (#359)
by lazloToth on Fri Aug 27, 2004 at 10:26:57 PM EST

Lousy Hun Boche bastards.

[ Parent ]
DeLay quote: (3.00 / 15) (#12)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:39:29 PM EST

Quoth DeLay: "It is clear that Subway has done very well for decades due to the patronage of Americans. For Subway to thumb its nose at its American customers and promote Michael Moore's blame-America-first conspiracy in a foreign country is very concerning."

Did he really confuse the fact that there were 2 popular documentaries this year? Or does he think that Michael Moore directed "Super Size Me"? What does he think Michael Moore has to do with "Super Size Me"?

And also, how does "Super Size Me" have anything to do with a "blame-America-first conspiracy"?
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph

Could be (2.85 / 7) (#13)
by eejit on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:43:37 PM EST

That he groups Michael Moore and Subway together as "American-bashing Americans".

I think he's saying they have no right to bash the very people that support them, basically saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

[ Parent ]
'bashing' or 'commenting on fact'? /nt (2.80 / 5) (#21)
by handslikesnakes on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:29:28 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Remember, this is America (3.00 / 15) (#59)
by mcc on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 11:14:08 PM EST

To paraphrase Dave Barry: "Free speech" means that you don't have the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. Even if the theatre actually is on fire.

[ Parent ]
DeLay's reasoning, not mine! /nt (none / 1) (#75)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:31:11 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Well (3.00 / 6) (#30)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:13:35 PM EST

Super Size Me clearly comes from the Michael Moore school of documentary making. And it does take a couple swipes at America (deservedly). Perhaps DeLay is blaming Moore for the genre. Still, it's a stupid thing to say.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]
No shit (1.36 / 11) (#40)
by I Hate Yanks on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 07:52:46 PM EST

Still, it's a stupid thing to say.

American man says something stupid. Yawn!


Reasons to hate Americans (No. 812): Circletimessquare lives there.
[ Parent ]

simple (2.50 / 6) (#98)
by Viliam Bur on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:48:32 AM EST

And also, how does "Super Size Me" have anything to do with a "blame-America-first conspiracy"?

If you say or think anything impolite about America, you certainly are a part of dangerous world-wide anti-American conspiracy. That's what everyone knows... maybe except those brainwashed people, who are part of the conspiracy.

[ Parent ]

Umm (none / 1) (#120)
by karb on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:16:02 AM EST

He's probably never heard of "Super-size" me. I never would have if I didn't read k5.
--
Who is the geek who would risk his neck for his brother geek?
[ Parent ]
easy mistake (2.75 / 4) (#185)
by jmc on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:08:23 PM EST

I can see why somebody (who's probably not a fan of either film) could easily confuse a super-sized documentary maker with the maker of the documentary about super-sizing.

[ Parent ]
Oh come on now (2.66 / 3) (#187)
by ksandstr on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:34:06 PM EST

Compared to some genuinely American examples we've all seen on television, Moore isn't "super-sized". Maybe "extra large", but by your standards "super-sized" he ain't. Unless of course the "fatso yardstick" also has a "mega lard-ass" bit somewhere near the high end, though I shudder to think what kind of statistics you'd need to come up with a yardstick like that ;-)
--
Gegen kommunismus und bolschewismus und terrorismus, jawohl!

[ Parent ]
Moore (2.50 / 2) (#189)
by kurioszyn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:37:59 PM EST

I don't know man.
He is fucking large , even by US standards.

[ Parent ]
Maybe the camera takes away 40 pounds at his size (none / 1) (#203)
by ksandstr on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:02:00 PM EST

Though, I was comparing a recollection of him to the story in the Sun about the woman who died when doctors tried to extract her from the couch her backside had become grafted to.

[ Parent ]
Moore (none / 0) (#222)
by kurioszyn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:10:26 PM EST

Come on.
You talking here about extremely unusual case and I was comparing him to people you see everyday on US streets.
By these standards he is pretty darn big.


[ Parent ]
The fatter us yanks become... (2.70 / 10) (#16)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:08:38 PM EST

...the thinner I seem.

Hahahaha! As someone who got shit for being fat growing up (I was a chubby kid), it's great to see that my fellow Americans are gaining weight while I've been losing it over the last few years. At the rate I'm going, I'll seem positively thin in no time.

Now, off to the gym I go...

Ah Ha! (none / 0) (#130)
by Cro Magnon on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:04:38 AM EST

It's all your fault! Quit losing weight! I'm fat enough already!
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
you know... (2.85 / 14) (#17)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:12:44 PM EST

Tom DeLay could take this so many different ways. He chose to blather against Subway's advertising, that's fine.

Perhaps he should have actually looked around the next mall or airport he visits and actually ask himself the question: Why are Americans so fat?

A recent K5 diary entry, American Obesity Figures, draws some attention to the fact that Americans are quite, quite, quite fat. Dangerously fat. Cripplingly fat.

Morbid obesity is now and is going to be an increasing burden on our health system, and thus a massive drag on our economy. We are going to end up flushing huge amounts of our social spending on treating for the effects of our malnourished yet overfed society.

It's not McDonald's fault, on that perhaps DeLay and I can agree. Americans need to wake up and stop blaming other people for the choices they make, for the food they shove into their own mouths, for the couches they sit on. Because Americans keep blaming other people -- and guess what, that is who ends up footing the bill through our health programs.

The cause is undeniably each individual person who eats too damned much junk food and doesn't excercise enough. Yet we have such a culture of "it has to be somebody else's fault" that we now have half of the population in serious medical danger.

Maybe Subway isn't right to portray an obese Statue of Liberty in an advertisement. But whose fault is it that Americans are fat? Fat Americans.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph

Maybe some people want to be fat (none / 0) (#319)
by CodeWright on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 12:50:31 PM EST

Maybe they'll eat the skinny whiners who wish they were fat and take it out on the fat people because they can't get fat.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure those guys are going to be gobbled down with a side of freedom fries.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
take a look around, it ain't america. (none / 0) (#325)
by joschi on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 08:44:07 PM EST

spend a couple minutes and google for "world obesity rising" and you'll notice that this is a *global* problem, america just happens to be winning the race to teenagers with clogged arteries. go usa!

[ Parent ]
Warum sind die Orcs so fett? (2.44 / 9) (#22)
by wireless orc on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:33:59 PM EST

Weil sie so viele Amerikaner fressen!

Schmecken Amerikaner gut? (2.25 / 4) (#27)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:58:51 PM EST

Ich würde denken, daß sie fetthaltig und Geschmack stark der Chemikalien sein würden.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
Es ist gut, dass die Amerikaner fett sind! (2.40 / 5) (#28)
by wireless orc on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:08:41 PM EST

Wir muessten ja sonst verhungern, wenn wir uns nur von kuemmerlichen Hobbits oder Mexikanern ernaehren wuerden!

Und die Chemikalien schmeckt man nach einer Weile auch nicht mehr; da wir Orcs ohnehin nicht lange leben, gibt es auch keine gesundheitlichen Gruende, nicht Amerikaner zu fressen!

[ Parent ]

attn: non-german speaking k5bots (1.50 / 10) (#80)
by DJ Google on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:49:15 AM EST

This entire thread is retarded and you should zero all the comments.

--
Join me on irc.slashnet.org #Kuro5hin.org - the official Kuro5hin IRC channel.
[ Parent ]

Attention all k5bots! (none / 1) (#111)
by wobblywizard on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:14:14 AM EST

The above poster does obviously not understand German and should be zeroed for his ignorance which he so willingly displayed in public.

OK, maybe I'm too harsh...then again, maybe not. Bwahahaha.

[ Parent ]

attn: non-german speaking k5bots (2.00 / 5) (#131)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:19:44 AM EST

Learn German, or Spanish, or something. Drop a German in the United States and they will succeed. Drop an American in Germany and they won't even be able to read the road signs.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
Christ (2.50 / 2) (#145)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:31:41 AM EST

Yeah, but drop an American who's learnt Spanish into Germany and he'll be able to read all the signs?

Didn't think so.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

yeah... (2.00 / 2) (#152)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:09:36 PM EST

That's obviously what I was saying. Glad I was clear.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
Indeed (2.50 / 2) (#174)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:17:52 PM EST

And I obviously wasn't making a wider point about the relative importance of English vs. other languages.

Presumably that point went straight over your head together with the hordes of people being airlifted about the world in order to read signs.

Oops I did it again.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

yup. (1.50 / 4) (#179)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:33:16 PM EST

And I obviously wasn't making a wider point about the relative importance of English vs. other languages.

That's right. You weren't.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

Yeah, but (2.25 / 4) (#159)
by Cro Magnon on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:31:14 PM EST

English is an important language to learn. Why would anyone ever need to learn German?
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
no reason (2.50 / 2) (#163)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:37:15 PM EST

Perhaps to expand your linguistic thinking. Perhaps to make learning other languages easier, and perhaps to even give you a greater understanding of the English language. Perhaps to read some German texts which interest you in the author's native tongue.

My reason? So if I'm ever sent back in time to 1930 or so, I can infiltrate Berlin and kill Hitler. (You may now invoke Godwin's law.)
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

German sucks (none / 1) (#207)
by DJ Google on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:16:36 PM EST

It's fucking retarded; just look at how long their words are.. Die geborentesssheisserunnenbaum, etc.

As for infiltrating Berlin, all you need to know is: "Ja, Isch denke Hitler ist der absolute hammer", "die juden sint da lang gegangen!" and "Nisch siesen!"

No I can't write german for shit, because I learnt it from cartoons when I was 6, but I (still) speak it pretty well.

--
Join me on irc.slashnet.org #Kuro5hin.org - the official Kuro5hin IRC channel.
[ Parent ]

Das stimmt nicht... (none / 1) (#173)
by chillmost on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:14:35 PM EST

Du Wichser! Road signs are actually pretty easy. It was my Steuererklärung (tax return) with which I had a problem. I have met a lot of helpless American here though. Thats okay, we can't help it.
Wie ein Ami in Deutschland zurecht kommt.
[ Parent ]
Achtung, alles non-Deutch spraken k5boten!! (none / 0) (#284)
by kcbrown on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:19:07 PM EST

Das postingthreaden ist posten bei das dumpkopfen. Ist nicht fuer muchenponderen und ist nicht fuer viewen bei das intelligente k5boten. Moderaten dies postingthread bei zero und laffen!

[ Parent ]
Why Corporations Are Backing The Wrong Horse (2.71 / 7) (#23)
by DLWormwood on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 05:38:24 PM EST

Traditionally, American Big Business has tended to back Republicans over Democrats in our political process.

In this age of multinational corporations, this may be coming back to harm them. In helping bring Bush The Sequel to the White House, they've hampered their own bottom lines by making it harder to market their products overseas, since the Bush administration gives little interest in maintaining our reputation abroad. Since marketers have to take local trends and opinions into account to maintain sales, companies like Subway have to distance themselves from micromanaging the agency in charge of ads. Expect this kind of thing to happen more and more often in the future when Bush is re-elected.
--
Those who complain about affect & effect on k5 should be disemvoweled

What the fuck? (1.33 / 3) (#164)
by rho on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:37:17 PM EST

Did you accidentally swallow a fistful of GlaxoSmithKline Rhetoricrax™?

I'm curious--at what point does parroting bullshit platitudes and horseshit clichés straight out of the Mickey Maoist Handbook get tedious? As I read your addlepated bit of fluff, I get the idea that you think that if Bush is re-elected (thank God you didn't make a "re-selected" joke) then marketers will be unable to be jingoistic assholes in Europe. Sounds good to me, and worth electing Bush just for that.

Tom Delay makes a very good point--Subway allowing such advertising to go on is stupid as hell. Subway's major source of income comes from Americans, not Europeans. The campaign could be have never mentioned Americans at all. Come on--are Germans so lacking in culture that they have to borrow from us in order to run an ad campaign?
"The thought of two thousand people munching celery at the same time [horrifies] me." --G.B. Shaw
[ Parent ]

Whew (3.00 / 6) (#172)
by aristus on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:11:34 PM EST

I was getting worried that "Mickey Maoist" was a horseshit cliché. Thanks for clearing that  up.

Now, on to things that matter: isn't it just a mite scary that the Speaker of the House is spouting off in public about "anti-American conspiracies"? We are talking about a couple silly rants dressed up as documentaries and an ad for a fucking deli, right?
--

??? "A man of imagination among scholars feels like a sodomite at a convention of proctologists." -- Paul West


[ Parent ]
I don't know (1.46 / 13) (#29)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:10:59 PM EST

Why do the krauts love scheisse porn so much?

If one doesn't offend you, neither should the other.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.

Your association of McDonalds and shit intrigues.. (2.50 / 2) (#89)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:40:25 AM EST

I have just had this image of one of those god awful German toilets (the ones with the little 'above sea level' shelf for you to crap on). Only instead of a stinking turd looking up at you, there's a stinking burger and fries.

I'm sure that could be a good advertising image. I'm not sure what for though...

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

What the hell? (2.90 / 22) (#32)
by ZorbaTHut on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:32:32 PM EST

So let me get this straight. It's okay to make stereotypical jokes about Australia. Heck, it's okay to remove the word "France" from a popular food, even though the food has nothing to do with France itself. But make a joke about Americans being fat? That's uncalled for! (Please ignore the fact that it's true.)

I swear, the US is acting more and more like a spoiled brat.

Wow (3.00 / 3) (#33)
by eejit on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:36:52 PM EST

Heck, it's okay to remove the word "France" from a popular food
You just couldn't make that up, even if you tried!

[ Parent ]
Lets face it (2.60 / 5) (#34)
by rodoke3 on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:39:11 PM EST

the only time most Americans pay attention to Europeans is when Americans are making fun of them or when Europeans are making fun of them.

I take umbrage with such statments and am induced to pull out archaic and over pompous words to refute such insipid vitriol. -- kerinsky


[ Parent ]
Americans are whingers (2.50 / 6) (#85)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:14:35 AM EST

The only time they care about anything outside of their country is when they're being made fun of. Wimps!

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
well (1.33 / 3) (#143)
by kurioszyn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:22:26 AM EST

... that and when Europeans have to stopped from slaughtering each other .


[ Parent ]
There's lots of countries in Europe (2.66 / 3) (#232)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:43:33 PM EST

So it's really no different to how the Americans are slaughtering some of the Iraqis

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
Foster's is insulting? (none / 0) (#36)
by MrLarch on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:52:08 PM EST

A travel board couldn't have done that well if they'd tried (if there wasn't one actually involved).

[ Parent ]
Meh. (none / 0) (#51)
by ZorbaTHut on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 09:59:05 PM EST

Mildly. Stereotyping, at the very least. And, honestly, the whole "america is fat" thing is a lot more accurate. ;)

[ Parent ]
that's true (none / 0) (#167)
by speek on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:45:15 PM EST

It's significantly wider than it is tall.

--
al queda is kicking themsleves for not knowing about the levees
[ Parent ]

It sure is (3.00 / 4) (#58)
by Reiko the Hello Kitty Fetishist on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 11:08:03 PM EST

How would you like the whole of your country to be represented by one of the worst beers in existence?

But what do I know? I just buy worthless plastic crap because it's cute.
[ Parent ]
Worst beer in existence? (2.80 / 5) (#61)
by jolly st nick on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 11:21:15 PM EST

When you say "Bud" you've said it all.

[ Parent ]
Not really (3.00 / 2) (#64)
by Reiko the Hello Kitty Fetishist on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:01:32 AM EST

Budweiser looks downright decent compared to Miller Highlife.

But what do I know? I just buy worthless plastic crap because it's cute.
[ Parent ]
You haven't SEEN bad beer. (none / 0) (#343)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 07:56:54 PM EST

Two words: commie beer.

If they've been communists, you know you're about to drink one of the most horrific brews in existance.
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

As an American, (2.00 / 2) (#283)
by Koutetsu on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:58:22 PM EST

I am proud to have personally voted on the nationwide elimination of the verbal scourge 'French fries.'  I go to bed satisfied each day that I've done my part to insult and alienate a friendly European nation.

Oh, wait...  "Americans" had nothing to do wtih that juvenille decision to alter the name of a couple of dishes in the Capitol Hill Cafeteria.  Congressnuts do a great number of things to get positive reactions from people who otherwise wouldn't give a damn what happened in D.C.  When it works, it works; when it doesn't, we ignore them.

I challenge you to find an American who seriously supports the decision to remove 'French' from 'fries' for political reasons.

. . .
"the same thing will happen with every other effort. it will somehow be undermined because the trolls are more clever and more motivated than you
[ Parent ]

Yes, but (none / 0) (#291)
by epepke on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 09:16:35 AM EST

Because some doughnut decided to call "freedom fries" what were probably just called "fries" before (maybe even "home fries" or "steak fries"), every single European is going to fetish it for fifty years as a vast and horrible insult. Even as they pounce with anuses on fire upon anybody who writes a retrospective on September 11 because it was such a trivial matter and we were supposed to have forgotten all about it already.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
its not mocking americans, its a national symbol (none / 1) (#324)
by joschi on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 08:40:23 PM EST

try mocking the king of tailand in an add to sell fast food and see how much they laugh. (cant find that article about how thailand registered official diplomatic complaints to the us government becayse someone in LA had a picutre of the king of thailand all bling-blinged up with bleached hair and sunglasses. the whole nation was in a rage.) all people get their panties in a bunch when you mock their national icons.

[ Parent ]
listen (2.64 / 17) (#35)
by One Bent Knee on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:49:23 PM EST

You are a pussy if you are offended by the opinions and makings-fun of all these backwater hick countries. You idiots live in a virtual Garden of Eden and worry yourselves with matters of nationalist pride. Pathetic.


Those you reject, we take under our wing.
I had to read that twice (3.00 / 4) (#72)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:22:10 AM EST

before I realised you meant the USA and not europe.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]
If you don't like it, eat at Quiznos instead (2.20 / 5) (#37)
by Lode Runner on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 07:01:57 PM EST

Quiznos has better sandwiches, better sides, better (and faster -- despite the wait to toast the sandwich!) service, and better ads than Subway. As if we needed another excuse to make the switch. . .

My findings are of course based on an unscientific survey, but every Quiznos I've been to has tested better (in above criteria) than every Subway I've been to. Also Quiznos tend to be cleaner, though that may have something to do with the most of the franchises' ages. I can make similar arguments for Panera and Potbelly vis-a-vis Subway.

No! (2.25 / 4) (#38)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 07:47:24 PM EST

Quiznos is Subway with a fucking easy bake oven. It's a gimmick. Oh great the subs get slightly warm, wow it's so much better. It's hard to keep them from pouring a ton of sauce on your sub too. I'm trying to watch the figure... lose some of the weight. It's also hard to specify what vegetables you want, you have to camp out by the easybake and catch the guy as he's putting stuff on your sub. Quiznos does have a pepper bar so they get major points for that. Also the iced tea is better than Subway. Overall I think Subway is tried and true, Quiznos is a novelty.

Panera is hands-down better than either restaurant. Haven't been to Potbelly.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

even if you write off the toast (3.00 / 2) (#43)
by Lode Runner on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 08:11:31 PM EST

Quiznos still has much better meat and cheese. In my experience, Quiznos toppings management is handled best up front at the orders desk, but I'll concede that I sometimes have to guard against unwanted tomatoes.

I'll also agree that Panera is by far outright winner -- I'm talkin' light-years here. Sierra Turkey, "dirty" potato chips, and Wi-Fi.

Lastly, you haven't had a sandwich until you've had Potbelly's Wreck (w/ extra mushrooms and marinara).

[ Parent ]

Potbelly's (3.00 / 2) (#48)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 09:27:01 PM EST

As a sandwich connoisseur I feel I owe it to myself to try one of these Potbelly's wrecks. Next time I'm in one of its godforsaken markets, I'll have to try it. I noticed they have root beer floats. There's this A&W fast food place in the ghetto of Springfield, Mass. of all places, where you can get a root beer float in a real glass, along with your chili cheese fries and chili cheese dog.

And I'm going to be in Philly for labor day. Gonna have to try the cheese steaks, but I'm not very optimistic about it. How much better can a cheese steak get? It's a good, greasy sub. You can get one anywhere around here, and they all seem pretty similar. Hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

Chicagolanders (3.00 / 2) (#67)
by Lode Runner on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:55:05 AM EST

would take great exception to that "godforsaken" remark. If you like red, dead stuff enough to enjoy A&W's "hot-dog" (I prefer Nathan's or even Wienerschnitzel--hmm, how many Germans know about that chain?--to A&W), then you'll enjoy downing a Wreck.

Downtown Springfield had a nice, cheap pasta place back in the '90s -- wish I could remember its name. . . good stuff!

[ Parent ]

I've been to Chicago (3.00 / 2) (#113)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:25:05 AM EST

Trust me, it's godforsaken.

You're probably thinking of Spaghetti Warehouse. Unfortunately that closed last year, and was promptly replaced by a Hooters. Pasta e Basta is still in Amherst and it's a pretty good cheap pasta place.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

Heh. (3.00 / 5) (#112)
by BJH on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:21:12 AM EST

If anyone needed any further proof as to why Americans are fatass lardballs, it's right here.

--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
fuck off, loser (none / 0) (#367)
by Battle Troll on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 03:12:17 PM EST

Duck-leg confit isn't exactly lo-cal. Nor is blutwurst washed down with a litre of beer.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
Bah, Quiznos is overpriced and a fad (none / 1) (#46)
by prolixity on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 08:50:23 PM EST

Besides, Togos is WAY better.
Bah!
[ Parent ]
like Burger King and Wendy's, right? (none / 1) (#68)
by Lode Runner on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:58:42 AM EST

and Togo's is pretty good; maybe not better than Q, but still superior to Subway.

[ Parent ]
Quiznos ads (none / 1) (#361)
by jmcneill on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 12:51:39 AM EST

I used to eat at Quiznos a few times a week after they opened a franchise near my office. After seeing the adds with the fetus rat pirate dolls, I haven't been back since. Some people find it funny; I just found it disturbing.

[ Parent ]
Good for Subway (2.12 / 8) (#39)
by I Hate Yanks on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 07:49:25 PM EST

Why are Americans so fucking fat anyway?


Reasons to hate Americans (No. 812): Circletimessquare lives there.

Because the food here is edible. (3.00 / 5) (#45)
by buck on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 08:35:20 PM EST

And I just brought home dinner from Subway. What a coincidence.
-----
“You, on the other hand, just spew forth your mental phlegmwads all over the place and don't have the goddamned courtesy to throw us a tissue afterwards.” -- kitten
[ Parent ]
...and doused in sugar. (3.00 / 4) (#201)
by gidds on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:51:05 PM EST

As high-fructose corn syrup, glucose syrup, sucrose, or whatever form they try to disguise it. Seriously. I'm from the UK, and it was noticeable just how much sweeter most food was when I visited the US. Pretty much everything is sweeter there. Perhaps that's why y'all drink so much (bitter, burnt) coffee?

I've heard of quite a lot of evidence that the rise in obesity isn't linked to fat in food (e.g. obesity levels increasing when people started to go for low-fat foods), but to levels of processed sugar. (And yes, I gather McDonalds are particularly guilty of this.)

Andy/
[ Parent ]

Highly processed foods. (none / 1) (#295)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 11:12:57 AM EST

I agree. Highly processed foods in general seem to be a big contributer to bad diets. And I don't think it's just that they contain high levels of fat or sugar. The processing of foods probably destroys much of the nutrients or leaves it in a harder to digest.

[ Parent ]
Reason to hate non-Americans #3483922 (1.50 / 12) (#52)
by rpresser on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 10:25:19 PM EST

Impolite, intolerant, intolerable, fat-hating foreign freaks.

What fucking difference does it make to you how fat I am?

What fucking right do you have to pass judgement on anyone anyway?  Being thin yourself and pulling a holier-than-thou attitude does not, in fact, make you holier than anyone. Perhaps assholier.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]

Take a gander at my in-laws (none / 0) (#55)
by Heywood Jablome on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 10:43:38 PM EST

Some of us are pretty fucking fat. Or better yet, mosey on down to your local all-you-can-eat buffet at feedin' time.

[ Parent ]
*I* am pretty fucking fat. (1.33 / 3) (#56)
by rpresser on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 10:48:13 PM EST

That does not invalidate any of my points. Why the fuck should anyone CARE if I am fat?  Please don't drag out healthcare-cost arguments. While they may be valid, they have no hope of explaining the anger and rudeness people quickly fall into over this issue -- for example, the question "Why are you so fucking fat?" itself.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
I don't care if you're fat (3.00 / 5) (#78)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:46:49 AM EST

I just thought this was so funny "Please don't drag out healthcare-cost arguments. While they may be valid,..."

That was very honest of you ^_^

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

No one cares that you're fat (3.00 / 2) (#83)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:03:17 AM EST

The ad was just suggesting that McDonalds could be a contributing factor to your fatness. It's not like we really give a sh*t, it's your arteries.

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
My comment was a specific reply to a comment (none / 0) (#114)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:27:40 AM EST

not to the ad
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
Still, no one cares (none / 1) (#234)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:45:19 PM EST

What you were replying to. Just like they don't care if you're fat.

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
*I* care (2.75 / 4) (#144)
by MX5 on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:29:34 AM EST

because I care about you. To see you shortening your life makes me sad and then I kind of fly off into an impotent rage. Once I'm over that, I sublimate the frustration I feel into making sick jokes about you. Maybe one day you'll see that you're hurting *us*, those who love you, with your obesity.
"Next week on the programme, bats. Are they really blind or are they just taking the piss?" -tfs
[ Parent ]
Aesthetics (3.00 / 4) (#170)
by The Archpadre on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:04:24 PM EST

Valid healthcare issues aside, I care because the more obese people there are, the more sweating, stinking lard-buckets I have to share space with on subways, buses, airplanes, and other tight seating arrangements. Simply stated, people that are that fat (and I'm not talking about pudgy people here, I'm complaining about the sickeningly huge ones) are unpleasant to be around, and unlike some other displeasing conditions, it's completely under their control. If they'd just do something about it, everyone involved would be much happier.
__
Where did my waffles go?


[ Parent ]
odor is from lack of hygiene, not size (none / 1) (#246)
by anon 17753 on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 04:13:34 PM EST

Yes, I've noticed that many fat people have poor hygiene, but so do many thin people.

The last time I flew, I was stuck behind two thin old men who apparently hadn't bathed for a couple days - the odor was nauseating. I survived by turning my vent on high, pointing it straight at my nose, and not moving my head for two and a half hours.

[ Parent ]

It goes both ways (3.00 / 3) (#260)
by stevie on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 10:34:52 PM EST

Why the fuck should anyone CARE if I am fat?

I'm about 5'10" and weigh 130 lbs. This is what we call "normal" here. Whenever I'm in the US I'm constantly asked why I'm so thin and if there's something wrong with me. Annoying as hell.

[ Parent ]

Chill man! (none / 0) (#96)
by I Hate Yanks on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:35:41 AM EST

You've obviously got issues here.


Reasons to hate Americans (No. 812): Circletimessquare lives there.
[ Parent ]

Hey buddy. (2.40 / 5) (#104)
by One Bent Knee on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:01:49 AM EST

I also hate fat people. Not because they are simply fat, no no no. Fat people are a nuisance because they're overly cheerful when you talk to them politely, they obstruct narrow walking paths that would normally allow two regular people to pass eachother without leaving the walk, fungus grows under their fat folds and bologna tits which causes them to reek, and many of them will continually bring food into conversation. These are my qualms with those who blather in fatspeak.


Those you reject, we take under our wing.
[ Parent ]
More importantly, why does it matter to you? (none / 1) (#342)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 07:41:49 PM EST

Seriously. It was a german ad in Germany.

--
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

Oooh! That's easy. (2.75 / 8) (#60)
by jolly st nick on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 11:19:20 PM EST

We eat too much and don't exercise enough.

Next question?

[ Parent ]

Look at the trends. (2.90 / 11) (#65)
by sonovel on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:48:30 AM EST

Euroland and other western nations are only a decade or so behind the US in this. Obesity is pandemic and endemic to the wealthy west.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1101139.stm,
http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=23447,
http://www.campus-germany.de/english/10.1812.1.29.html,
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mor_obe_cap,
http://www.iotf.org/oonet/denmark.htm,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&lis t_uids=10878690&dopt=Abstract,
http://www.healthpromotion.ie/topics/obesity/,
http://www.annecollins.com/weight_health/obesity-australia.htm,
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/8/1039,
http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/0/742486825ae8aa97cc256e6f00816d36?OpenDocument,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1035599,00.html,

And on and on and on. Just google obesity and your nation of choice. Chances are people there are getting fatter.

Some morons think it is good to use a near global health issue to bash one nation. Are you really so ignorant of this well publicized global trend? It seems impossible, but many people seem to think that they can single out the US for this problem. Ignorance or willful stupidity, either way it's a damn stupid way to insult US citizens.

[ Parent ]

It's that bloody gulf stream I tell you (3.00 / 3) (#77)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:43:47 AM EST

Bringing the fat over ^_^

But you're quite right - this, just like many other trends is on its way to europe (lagging behind the states as usual). This is why we have to berate the Americans now - before we're as fat as they are (or before they're all dead ^_^)

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

Aussies are fat too but it's because we drink beer (none / 1) (#82)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:00:56 AM EST



You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
Well ... (2.92 / 14) (#66)
by Peahippo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:52:27 AM EST

Well ... ... even when you think you're paying attention, you end up lacking exercise. You go to work; recover on the couch (reading books is not aerobic); zip around in cars even to the store, which as a teenager you would have walked or bicycled to; ride miles up and down in an elevator over the course of a week; and generally wake up one morning with high blood pressure and wondering "what the hell happened?".

Americans with any city exposure have life waaay too easy. I had to bury a dog the other day, and digging a 2-ft-deep hole for a German Shepard with pick and shovel through clayey soil nearly taxed my endurance. A relative stood nearby during this, telling me time and again that all that sweat was precisely why she had her dogs cremated. She's 5'2" and must weigh all of 180 pounds. She should have buried her dogs, ya think?

Fortunately for trimmed bodies, Americans are now getting exposed to a significant decline in economic opportunity, so physicality must make up for what money and gasoline obtained for them before. SUVs, after all, don't run on piss. America will definitely be poorer, but healthier. Even health care may become affordable again, since doctors have to eat too.


[ Parent ]
Lifestyle (3.00 / 3) (#128)
by Cro Magnon on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:56:52 AM EST

I don't know how it is in Europe, but the average American works 40-60 hours a week at a desk job, drives home, plops in front of the idiot box to watch "Meet your new Mommy", and stuffs his face with McDonald's BarfBurgers.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
Fight fire with fire. (1.28 / 14) (#53)
by ubernostrum on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 10:38:47 PM EST

Make a flyer showing Hitler shoveling bodies into an oven:

Warum Tötung sechs Million Juden?

Use it to wrap pretzels or something. All's fair in love, war and fast-food advertising.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
Oh, and for the record... (none / 0) (#54)
by ubernostrum on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 10:40:22 PM EST

Godwin. I know.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
You mean like this one (3.00 / 4) (#90)
by werner on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:52:28 AM EST

Master Race

[ Parent ]
There is a slight difference (3.00 / 6) (#93)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:27:23 AM EST

Between making fun of fat people and making fun of genocide.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

Fantastic. (none / 1) (#157)
by awgsilyari on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:27:36 PM EST

Way to blame the Germans for the marketing choices of two American companies.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com
[ Parent ]
Grammar and other stuff (2.83 / 6) (#180)
by anno1602 on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:34:06 PM EST

At least get your German right. I'll try to translate it into an English sentence with the same kind of grammar.

Why six million jews homicide?

The sentance doesn't even have a verb. You get bonus points for correct capitalization and use of the Umlaut, though. The correct phrase would have been:

Warum sechs Millionen Juden töten?

Although, still, it's not really a similar statement. The original statement "Warum sind die Amis so fett?" has a subject: The Americans, while your sentence simply goes "Why kill six million jews?". As such, we need Hitler in here:

Warum tötet Hitler sechs Millionen Juden?

Better, but still not good enough. The sentence is in the present tense, while the deed it talks about is in the past. So, we need:

Warum tötete Hitler sechs Millionen Juden?

Okay, now we have a grammatically and sematically correct question: "Why did Hitler kill six million jews?". That's a good question, and one a lot of poeple have tried to answer: What drove this maniac to these deeds? The fundamental problem of your argument, though, is that this question cannot be answered with "Because he ate too much fast food".
--
"Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit." - Murphy
[ Parent ]

Sir, (none / 0) (#184)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:47:21 PM EST

Great post ;)
The fundamental problem of your argument, though, is that this question cannot be answered with "Because he ate too much fast food".
You what?! Shit, back to the books for me then...

[ Parent ]
Yes it can (2.00 / 2) (#321)
by CodeWright on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 01:04:17 PM EST

Because Hitler was a vegetarian health freak.

Thus, through chemical imbalance from non-meat eating and hypo-junkfooditude, he became enraged with genocidal mania.

By this we can see that fat people are the last bastion of defense against skinny vegan genocidal maniacs.

Or, in other words: Vegetarianism causes Genocide.

QED

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
Blame Babelfish. (none / 0) (#258)
by ubernostrum on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 08:56:04 PM EST

Je parle seulement anglais et français, et un peu de grec antique.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
While I commend you for correcting (none / 0) (#379)
by werner on Sun Sep 26, 2004 at 09:22:36 AM EST

the German, perhaps it would be wise to not use such a condescending tone when your English is full of spelling mistakes (sentance, poeple).

Just a thought.



[ Parent ]
Money over morals (2.33 / 6) (#63)
by Haxx on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 11:56:41 PM EST

Sorry, no edit comments. Thankyou for bringing this story to our attention. I am not surprised one bit that this could happen. As you know money is King. To prove this is easy, take for example this little bit of info. A top U.S. advertising company has taken on an interesting client recently. The client is the royal family of Saudi Arabia. For a price the company will lie and manipulate as well as speak some truths to improve Saudi Arabia's severly poor reputation in the U.S.. So what we have is a U.S. Corporation for a fee acting as a Public Relations Minister for a country that is tied in so many ways to the instant pulverization of 3,000 citizens some of wich are aquaintences of the employees of the Advertising Company. This is the mightiest of flaws of capitalism. If more money can be made, morals don't matter.

The flaw... (none / 0) (#220)
by elgardo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:58:46 PM EST

...is not capitalism, but greed. Greed is a problem whether money is involved or not, and whether you live in a capitalistic society or not.

Another flaw is when people start calling others "communists" if they want to do something for any reason other than money.

[ Parent ]

Supersize me. (2.40 / 5) (#69)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:15:22 AM EST

"omg i ate mcdonalds for an entire month and got fat!!!!11!"

I don't like McDonalds, but that doco is just fucking stupid. Since when has McDonalds ever promoted it's range of meals as being a complete, well-balanced diet?

Er... (3.00 / 10) (#109)
by BJH on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:42:34 AM EST

...perhaps you should look up the lawsuit that McDonalds brought against two protesters in the UK, a part of which was objecting to the protestors' description of McDonalds hamburgers, fries, etc. as being fattening junk food.

McDonalds lost on that part of their lawsuit, mainly because they tried to redefine "nutritious" (as used in their advertising) to mean "contains nutrition".

--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

So? (1.50 / 2) (#215)
by kitten on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:34:18 PM EST

So far as I know, McDonald's has never claimed that if you eat Big Macs and fries three times a day, every day, you'll be just fine. The truth is basically what they said -- that having a quarter pounder now and then isn't going to kill you.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
nutritious != complete diet (none / 1) (#266)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:55:33 AM EST

I never said McDonalds never claimed to be nutritious. I said they never claimed that their meals were a complete diet. So you're point is irrelevant in this case.

There are many nutritious foods, but you can't just eat only one thing. Whether something is nutritious or a complete diet are completely different things. You shouldn't even need to be a dietitian to realise that.

I've seen that doco BTW.

[ Parent ]

+1FP, down with fat chicks (1.44 / 9) (#70)
by FreeBSD on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:40:14 AM EST



All the more for the rest of us. -nt (1.60 / 5) (#71)
by MrLarch on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:56:48 AM EST

pun intended

[ Parent ]
0, Hide - eww. (1.50 / 4) (#146)
by Reiko the Hello Kitty Fetishist on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:43:51 AM EST



But what do I know? I just buy worthless plastic crap because it's cute.
[ Parent ]
Why? I'll tell you why. (1.26 / 15) (#73)
by cuz on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:25:30 AM EST

Because ours is the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world.

Has England ever had a king with a six-pack? No. They've always been fat, because they're rich and they can have whatever they want.

We work harder than the people of your country, thus we have tons more money and can buy/eat whatever the fuck we want.

That's why we drink soda and you drink boiled leaves.

The royals aren't fat (2.00 / 3) (#79)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:48:36 AM EST

If you look at Prince Phillip (husband to the queen) and believe that he or his biatch are fat then you're stoopid. The only fat royal was Fergie and she was an imposter anyway.

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
What about Henry VIII? [nt] (3.00 / 3) (#117)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:47:41 AM EST


------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
Different times (2.00 / 3) (#233)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:44:31 PM EST

Back in the day of Henry, they didn't know any better. I mean, it's not like they had dieticians and personal trainers. They just had mutton and meade.

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
Besides... (none / 1) (#341)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 07:28:30 PM EST

It was the old days. You HAD to be fat, or everyone thought you had a wasting disease and kept away from you!
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
Interesting fact about fat men (none / 1) (#357)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 10:56:11 PM EST

Even in the 1900s fat men have been considered attractive and rightly so, because if you are a man and you are fat, you can afford to eat and you can afford to be driven everywhere and you don't have to labour. In short, fat men were good candidates for husbands because they obviously would have more money to provide for a family.

However, fat women are lazy good for nothings and always will be... I think that's a bit harsh.

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]

What a nice display of the dumb, ugly Yank (2.62 / 8) (#110)
by CaptainZapp on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:07:25 AM EST

That's why we drink soda and you drink boiled leaves.

Really: Comparing sugared or nutra sweeted water containing artificial color and bubbles with one of the finest and most distinguished drinks available to mankind can only come from the department of the totally clueless.

Mate, you seem to be a few fries short of a happy meal!

[ Parent ]

Yeah, it's the same here too (2.40 / 5) (#202)
by ksandstr on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:56:44 PM EST

The fact that you drink soda while we drink boiled leaves (or, I guess, for finns you'd say we drink vodka straight from the bottle. hey whatever) is usually understood as a jibe at the Americans, not the other way around. Generally people have the same sort of hackneyed respect towards those who'd prefer a mass produced cheapo near-synthetic gunk to something unpredictable and genuine as you'd have towards someone who had memorized the phone book.

--
Gegen kommunismus und bolschewismus und terrorismus, jawohl!

[ Parent ]
Soda vs Tea (none / 0) (#224)
by kurioszyn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:26:16 PM EST

" a mass produced cheapo near-synthetic gunk"

Synthetic shmynthetic.
If it works for you , what difference does it make ?

I like soda and I like tea but I am having hard time understanding how preferring one over another implies anything but a difference in taste which is purely individual thing anyway.

[ Parent ]

what? (2.00 / 2) (#261)
by Delirium on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 11:53:02 PM EST

Sure, there's specialty teas, but there's specialty sodas too. Most tea, as most soda, is mass-produced crap.

[ Parent ]
DeLay is a wanker. Film at 11. [nt] (2.42 / 7) (#76)
by polyglot on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:38:29 AM EST


--
"There is no God and Dirac is his prophet"
     -- Wolfgang Pauli
‮־
Truth is a beautiful thing (2.33 / 12) (#81)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:55:52 AM EST

Whenever the US Gov't/Engine/whatever is confronted with the truth you get this huge backlash.

UnAmerican is basically a term used to describe anything that points out the negatives of its culture and ideology. Americans as a rule are either Dumb or Fat. I'm not talking about well-educated or famous Americans. But the average ones that end up on Jerry Springer.

It's great to see that pointing out the fact that the average yank is fat is UnAmerican.

In fact, American-styled hamburgers are supposedly responsible for reducing the life expectancy in Okinawa too (Okinawa having one of the highest life expectancies in the world).

Although the fatties in the audience don't agree, it's still funny.

On the subject of Fat Yanks, here's an interesting one about a chick that was so fat and lazy that she had to be surgically removed from her couch! http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004371699,00.html

Now, is she UnAmerican?

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive

Springer guests are not average. (2.57 / 7) (#86)
by MrLarch on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:41:16 AM EST

That is why some average people enjoy seeing that there is indeed a bottom to the barrel and they aren't it.

[ Parent ]
The Other Side of the Coin (2.57 / 7) (#199)
by virg on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:24:16 PM EST

> Americans as a rule are either Dumb or Fat. I'm not talking about well-educated or famous Americans. But the average ones that end up on Jerry Springer. It's great to see that pointing out the fact that the average yank is fat is UnAmerican.

See, this is the part that gets you in trouble. The average American doesn't end up guesting on Jerry Springer, so the average American is not dumb enough to get there. The statistics say that one in three Americans is overweight, so the average American isn't fat, either. So your statement of "Whenever the US Gov't/Engine/whatever is confronted with the truth you get this huge backlash." isn't accurate by any evidence you've presented, since you haven't confronted any truths in your statments, and then use the fact that the average American is insulted by inaccurate comments to try to prove your point.

Sorry, but your point fell flat. You'll have to try again.

Virg
"Imagine (it won't be hard) that most people would prefer seeing Carrot Top beaten to death with a bag of walnuts." - Jmzero
[ Parent ]
Hold it there lard boy (2.80 / 5) (#212)
by felixrayman on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:16:07 PM EST

The statistics say that one in three Americans is overweight, so the average American isn't fat, either.

No, the statistics say that one in three Americans is obese. As google would tell you:

Today more than 61 percent of American adults are either overweight or obese, according to the U.S. Centers of Disease Control and Prevention

So, the average American is indeed a fucking fatass.

Call Donald Rumsfeld and tell him our sorry asses are ready to go home. Tell him to come spend a night in our building. - Pfc. Matthew C. O'Dell

[ Parent ]

Thanks felixrayman (none / 0) (#239)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:57:18 PM EST

since you haven't confronted any truths in your statments, and then use the fact that the average American is insulted by inaccurate comments to try to prove your point.

See! When Americans are confronted with the truth they start arguing and whining that it's all lies and that you are wrong and they're insulted because they've really no recourse when faced with the truth. I mean, they could try humility.

Thanks for the practical demonstration of my point.



You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
Actually... (3.00 / 4) (#304)
by Hatamoto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:36:08 AM EST

... the statistics are that 1 in 3 americans are OBESE, where close to 2 in 3 are overweight. You can see the official numbers here, courtesy of the CDC.

However, those statistics are little more than politically influenced numbers for use by actuarials determining risk for insurance companies, so how much weight (heh) you give them is entirely at your discretion. ;)

One thing we always have to remember as well, in any given population, 50% of the people in it will have below average intelligence. I think that more striking, at least to external observers, is IGNORANCE more than stupidity. In political terms, ignorance (often willful) about the rest of the world is the stereotypical american trait... I've lost count of how many times cars with US plates have come to Canada in July with snowboards and skiis strapped to the roof of an SUV. However, I don't have any proof other than anecdote to support that statement, aside from the assurance that thousands, if not millions, of other Canadians have witnessed and chuckled about the same phenomenon.

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)
[ Parent ]

Don't forget... (none / 0) (#340)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 07:22:55 PM EST

Those "Canada is the 51st state!" fucktards.

Seriously. Considering that you're in OUR country, why even say something like that? Do we go over there and speak loudly of how all americans are fat and stupid?(keep in mind this german ad never did make it to the US!)

--
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

heh... (none / 1) (#351)
by Hatamoto on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 03:38:51 PM EST

Those people are the same types who think we're "boastful" when we put maple leafs on our luggage when we travel. Apparently we have an elitist attitude because we like to display our flag as we travel.

Maybe they're just pissed off because they can't put their flag on their luggage, cuz it'd probably be intentionally lost by people who have no love for 'em?

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)
[ Parent ]

Some do that. (none / 0) (#354)
by SJZero on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 08:13:17 AM EST

Some americans wear canadian flags on their packs because their international reputation is so bad. Enough that many people abroad will refuse to believe a person is canadian just from the flag. It's ironic really...it's that sort of thing which is exactly what gives them their reputation! --
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
Anti-American is... (3.00 / 2) (#219)
by elgardo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:53:04 PM EST

I have been criticized by Americans for stating my opinion about Bush's foreign policy. They claim that I have no say about US foreign policy unless I'm an American citizen. As a foreigner, I had no right to criticize their "internal affairs", such as Bush's war-lust.

This rule about not discussing another country's foreign policy does not have anything to do with the US' right to criticize Iraqi <u>domestic</u> affairs under Saddam.

[ Parent ]

Foreign Policy (none / 0) (#235)
by D Jade on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:48:47 PM EST

hey claim that I have no say about US foreign policy unless I'm an American citizen

Of course. If you were commenting about how their foreign policy affected your country you would still have no right to say so... You're not American!

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]

Americans Dumb and Fat? (2.50 / 2) (#263)
by HighOrbit on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 02:58:56 AM EST

Americans as a rule are either Dumb or Fat.
.... Yet they manage to rule the world with global economic and military hegemony. And they managed to build a continent-wide nation-state in less than a hundred years (1776-1876) (Germany with a thousand year history was only a Zollverein). They started with less than 3 million people (in mid 1700s) and by the middle of this century will have a population that exceeds the EU (which is currently bigger but declining). Their language and popular culture have become the world's language and culture (when was the last time a German movie was mass-released in India, Brazil, or China?). The most popular language for EU administration is not French or German, but English - more because of American influence than British. They have the world's largest economy and they consider 6% un-employment to be unusually high (Germany's unemployment rate is never below 10%). They also have the world's oldest surviving constitutional republic. The German Federal Republic itself was created by the Americans when they convienced the French and British to combine their zones of occupation with the American zone and allow Germany to have independance (The French were against it at first). and Oh, let's not forget about those fat Americans at the Olympics and how they tend to go home with the most medals.

So how does any of that make Americans dumb?

[ Parent ]
you forgot... (2.50 / 2) (#276)
by Innocent Bystander on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 12:53:27 PM EST

the slaves which created the largest economy in the world.

the natives slaughtered wholesale so there was room for the large population.

the puppet leaders of third world nations installed by the US so it can maintain it's economic hegemony.

Americans ARE dumb, but america has always been blessed by intelligent amoral leaders.

[ Parent ]

You also Forgot (The Truth about Europe) (2.40 / 5) (#280)
by HighOrbit on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:05:07 PM EST

Well, nobody said America was perfect [just more perfect ;-) ]. Europe is in no position to lecture Americans about morality. Let's examine the history least we all forget:
  • The 30 years religous war which killed 1/3 of Germany's population.
  • World War I - A European project that killed approx 16 million people.
  • World War II - Another example of European moral superiority - approx 56 million people killed.
  • The Holocaust - The strongest European nation commits an official policy of genocide, the rest do nothing or collaberate with it.
  • The Crusades
  • Puppet leaders? Is that anything like 500 years of European Imperialist dominiation of the world?
  • Slaughter of Natives? European Imperialists have killed many many millions of natives and European Governments have killed millions more other Europeans
  • Slavery in America? Let us not forget over 2000 years of slavery and serfdom in Europe (compared to less than 100 years in the American Republic 1776-1865)
  • Amoral Leaders? Lets talk about Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Stalin, Lenin, Napolean, Bismarck, Petain, and so many more bloodthirsty monarchs, socialists, and fascists than nobody can count them all.
  • That Americans live in America because their ancestors were fleeing Europe because of religious, cultural, economic, or political oppression

If a candid observer can call Americans dumb, then what could he call Europeans with a history like that?

[ Parent ]
Um... (none / 0) (#339)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 07:18:38 PM EST

Old?

Seriously. When the US was created, most of history had already come and gone. Considering americas forefathers were European, it could be easily said that the sins of the UK before the USA came around are the sins of Americans.

And why is it always either USA or EU with Americans? The majority of the world lives in places which aren't one of these two places! :P
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

Because (none / 0) (#348)
by Cro Magnon on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 09:47:01 AM EST

it's usually the EUians that insist that the US is evil! Also, WW2 isn't that old. But if you want to talk older history, it was Europeans who wiped out the South American Indians, just as decendents of Europeans wiped out the North American Indians.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
Free speech? (2.92 / 13) (#87)
by Stephen Turner on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:11:10 AM EST

Nice article, but I don't see why we have to wheel in free speech (sorry, Free Speech).

Subway have the right to stereotype Americans. Americans have the right to object to that portrayal. Subway have the right to carry on the ad if they want, or withdraw it if they think it's counter-productive (or has done its job!).

At no stage did anyone infringe on anyone else's free speech, as far as I can see from your article. It seems that both sides said and did what they wanted, and that free speech worked rather well.

People love their own opinion. (2.80 / 5) (#102)
by Gerhard on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:51:33 AM EST

I agree hundred percent with your comment. People always feel their right to free speech was infringed on as soon someone else exercise 1 their own right to free speech. Free speech by definition is the right of all parties involved to make unpopular opinions known in public, but people seem unable grasp the true nature of free speech.

1.The exercise of your civic rights is in no way beneficial to your health.

[ Parent ]
100 points to Subway (2.85 / 14) (#88)
by sien on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:16:59 AM EST

You gotta admire it when a corporation trolls the US government.

N freaking T!

Trolling Who? (2.66 / 6) (#134)
by anaesthetica on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:47:08 AM EST

Subway didn't troll the American government, they trolled the American public. They didn't say that Tom DeLay was a lard bucket. They said the 280 million Americans were fat greasy-fingered gluttons. A bunch of Americans got upset, and one of our representatives denounced Subway.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
Can't complain about the truth (2.77 / 9) (#91)
by A Bore on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:17:50 AM EST

I think the statistics are that 1 in 3 Americans are obese. Gluttony is repulsive when there are children dying of malnutrition. The latest excuse seems to be "my genes made me do it", which must hold for about 0.0001% of those obese in the United States. It isn't the least bit difficult to get regular exercise or cut down on calorific intake - let's face it, there are no excuses for stuffing your face every day.

Please learn some psychology (2.83 / 6) (#116)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:38:44 AM EST

It isn't the least bit difficult to get regular exercise or cut down on calorific intake - let's face it, there are no excuses for stuffing your face every day.

You have made two statements here.  The second one is perhaps true. Any time the word "excuse" is given -- "excuse" meaning to remove culpability -- a moral judgement is being implicitly made. I respect your right to make moral judgements, although I detest you for making them. [irony]

But if you have never been helpless to change your behavior, then you can not understand what it is like. There is no excuse for sucking down cigarette smoke and ruining your lungs -- that does not mean it "isn't the least bit difficult" to quit.  There is no excuse for repeatedly molesting children -- that does not mean it "isn't the least bit difficult" to rehabilitate a convicted pedophile.  

Yes, these examples are totally different cases from overeating. One is a biologically addictive, self-damaging behavior shared by hundreds of millions; the other is a detestable crime that causes harm to innocents. Neither is very similar to overeating, which is giving in to a biologically necessary drive, and giving in too far. Still, I think the point is that where pleasure is concerned, people are not always capable of doing what's right. I think that's a widely accepted point.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]

Uhu (none / 1) (#125)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:48:48 AM EST

Swapping in child molestation for pedophilia (which is an affection not a behaviour), a person isn't helpless to stop doing any of these things. People stop smoking (it's hard), some people (thank goodness) stop molesting kids (it's not hard anymore), and some people lose weight (getting hard(bodied)).

Three things that make (some) people feel good, but that they might want to stop. Some stop, some don't. Some find it easier than others (not molesting kids was a doddle for me ^_^)

I disagree that there are no excuses for stuffing your face every day. (grandparent post) - it seems a valid tradeoff to me - short term pleasure with a long term cost - just like smoking.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

Apology for terminology (2.75 / 4) (#148)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:57:04 AM EST

I made the common mistake of equating child molestation with pedophilia.  Dropping the word pedophilia, I assert that it is not easy for child molesters to reform to the point where they are unlikely to re-offend. There is extensive literature on this (of which I have read more than a little recently -- it's in my wife's line of work).  Rehabilitiation of child molesters is not easy. There is a very high recidivism rate and no one has found a particularly good treatment with a success rate over 50%.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
Agreed, none are easy, but all *are* possible (none / 0) (#178)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:31:41 PM EST

The odds may be stacked against the person involved, but that certainly doesn't validate calling the situation "helpless", especially for eating.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]
What if... (1.25 / 4) (#230)
by CorwIn of Amber on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:26:43 PM EST

... we cut off every child molester's penis? That sounds pretty much like 99% no-recidive treatment. To me, of course.

 (The remaining 1% is for people who do something else to the kids than fuck them, like kill them, eat them, hit them, or anything abusive)

-Do you realize the suicide rate we'd have if people killed themselves just because they're stupid?
-Yes, an acceptable one.


[ Parent ]
False definition of 'molestation' (2.50 / 4) (#282)
by Koutetsu on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:48:46 PM EST

'Molesting' doesn't just mean to stick one's penis in.  Remember how kids are warned not to allow an adult to "touch" them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable?  Well, some molestors get off on just touching.  Or taking pictures.  Or oral copulation.

And it would be quite sexist to assume that all child molestors began with a penis in the first place...

. . .
"the same thing will happen with every other effort. it will somehow be undermined because the trolls are more clever and more motivated than you
[ Parent ]

The stats are crap (2.66 / 3) (#274)
by cs668 on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 12:39:27 PM EST

If you look at the BMI( Body Mass Index ), which is used to measure obesity in the US, it is ridiculous. At 5' 11'' and 180 pounds I am considered overweight.

My mother is German and so I have spent about 1/3 of my life in Germany. Americans are fatter than Germans, but not to the extent that these studies show, because the BMI used in them is ridiculous.

If you want to play around with a BMI calculator give this one a try:
http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm

[ Parent ]
At 5'11" and 180lbs (3.00 / 2) (#301)
by EvilGwyn on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 12:44:29 AM EST

you could be considered to be in denial.

But hey so long as you don't actually suffer from diabetes you couldn't be overweight.

[ Parent ]

I might be in denial :-) (none / 0) (#322)
by cs668 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 06:02:37 PM EST

But that does not change the fact that if you are doing any weight training at all allong with your arobic workouts you will be overweight.

The stats should really be based on body fat percentage.  Not on height and weight alone.

[ Parent ]

I WAS SEARCHING FOR A PICTURE OF A FAT GERMAN (1.63 / 11) (#92)
by CAPS LOCK on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:24:14 AM EST

AND I CAME ACROSS THIS WEBSITE, WHICH I THINK IS THE BEST ONE I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Wow (3.00 / 2) (#95)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:31:10 AM EST

That's art

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

Oh, and also (3.00 / 2) (#97)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:43:25 AM EST

Would you like a lick of my margarine, CAPS LOCK?

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

NO THANK YOU NEBBISH (none / 1) (#107)
by CAPS LOCK on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:24:50 AM EST

I'M VERY FLATTERED, BUT I'M JUST NOT GAY.

[ Parent ]
It's so new I'm having trouble to remember: (2.50 / 4) (#119)
by bob6 on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:15:08 AM EST

Yanks are fat, Brits are gay.

Cheers.
[ Parent ]
It's not right (2.91 / 12) (#94)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:30:28 AM EST

To poke fun at Americans and fat people. It's not right for Americans to rename French Fries Freedom Fries.

They're chips.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

I curse thee! (3.00 / 5) (#105)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:06:46 AM EST

There is a special place in hell for people that imagine that chips are fries.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]
So... (3.00 / 2) (#106)
by Harold F Cummingsworth on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:11:31 AM EST

There's a place in hell for Australians, New Zealanders, UKians and quite probably a few more nationalities?

[ Parent ]
No (2.83 / 6) (#108)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:28:33 AM EST

These are obviously Gods chosen people and have no place in hell, oh yes indeed.

Anybody that imagines a chip is a fry should go to England and sample both. If they can't tell the difference (boggle!), well, all hope is lost.

In other news: cats and dogs are not the same. Not even for sufficiently small values of 'dog'

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

Good point (3.00 / 4) (#121)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:21:17 AM EST

Maybe fries should be re-named "crap chips"?

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

Sounds good to me: (none / 1) (#127)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:52:02 AM EST

I've always thought of 'French Fries' as 'French Crap Chips' ^_^

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]
"Freedom fries" (none / 0) (#289)
by caridon20 on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:45:32 AM EST

If we inject a little language logic into the debate. :)

French Fries = Freedom fries.  
therefore:
French = Freedom.

New buildings called Freedom towers

therfore:
New buildings called French Towers.

/C - anoying people since 1970
Dissent is NOT Treason Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
[ Parent ]

Inflaming cultural tensions? (2.78 / 14) (#100)
by Harold F Cummingsworth on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:05:40 AM EST

When it gets to the point where "cultural tensions" arise because a nation cannot restrain itself from gluttony, and said nation also takes umbrage at another nation pointing out this gluttonous behaviour, there is a serious problem. If this were not the most powerful nation in the world at this time it would be a laughing matter.

USoAia would do well to learn to "take its own medicine" when it comes to matters like these. After years of generalising other nations' inhabitants to the point of absurdity through an uncountable number of crappy TV shows and films you would think that they could take a little of it themselves.

This attitude of denying all criticism, no matter how valid, reminds me of a person I once knew. A plucky negro child, he suffered from a slight overdose of fried chicken, and somehow missed out on having a prediliction for basketball. This child would constantly "trash talk" others of his age group, until somebody remarked on his rotundity. Flying into a rage, little Sammy attacked the other child, yelling "I'm not fat you [Expletive Deleted]!" Imagine if Sammy had nuclear weapons - do we really want to live in that kind of a world?

a couple things (none / 1) (#132)
by minerboy on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:22:31 AM EST

First, its not just americans - the world seems to be having the same problem (frankly, Germans tend to be fairly fat, too) - Who would have ever imagined that over eating would be more of a world problem than famine ? Score one for a global food market

We Americans do take criticism well - the information about obesity comes from american institutions, and there are efforts to reduce this problem. However, putting up with too much taunting is another matter, imagine if we would have a commercial Comparing a plate of escargot, to a rack of BBQ ribs,(Or a glass of wine to a Budweiser) and asking "why are the French so cowardly, or an apple commercial, showing an Al-Queda computer guy with a PC, asking why are the Arabs so dumb? and then someone says, oh its a fair criticism, why don't they accept it.

Last, you assume that Obesity is because of Gluttony, thats not necessarily so. There are significant genetic factors involved, as well as other lifestyle issues.



[ Parent ]
You can't prove empirically (3.00 / 5) (#137)
by GenerationY on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:59:18 AM EST

that the French are cowards or that Arabs are dumb (in fact they aren't according to the available data).

You can however prove that Americans are the fattest people on the planet.
This is the important thing about this case, its not a slur, its the truth.

[ Parent ]

you can (none / 0) (#150)
by minerboy on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:04:12 PM EST

prove that Arabs are Dumb, though its probably is not nice to taunt them. As for the french, cowardice is difficult to quantify, but we all know their military record - but perhaps their not generally cowards, just poor soldiers - remember their Heroic resistance to nazi-ism

[ Parent ]
Re: France (2.75 / 4) (#153)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:16:22 PM EST

What is the deal with American's bashing of France? Surely, if it wasn't for the French army, you'd still be a colony of the British ;)

[ Parent ]
France vs US (none / 0) (#188)
by kurioszyn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:36:29 PM EST

It is not really about bashing France for the fun of it, but rather responding to their never ending implicit attacks on US interests.

They  seem to think that somehow history has appointed them to be a counterweight to US political and cultural dominance and are doing the best they can (which admittedly is not much in the real world terms) to frustrate every US policy regardless of the actual merits of these policies.

[ Parent ]

Yeah but in your example (3.00 / 3) (#166)
by GenerationY on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:43:20 PM EST

Snails have not been shown to cause cowardice. Bravery is kind of a prerequisite for eating those balls of slime in my humble opinion. A couple of bottles of wine causes quite the opposite behaviour from cowardice in my experience.

However: Hamburgers and chips do make people fat.
Subway have a quite legitimate argument there; if you don't want to be like a fat american, avoid eating hamburgers and chips.

[ Parent ]

So tell me (none / 1) (#194)
by ksandstr on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:53:36 PM EST

Who the fuck was this Napoleon guy then?

--
Gegen kommunismus und bolschewismus und terrorismus, jawohl!

[ Parent ]
Didn't he get his but kicked (none / 0) (#195)
by Cro Magnon on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:56:48 PM EST

and wind up at Elba?
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
not french [nt] (none / 1) (#214)
by speek on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:29:27 PM EST


--
al queda is kicking themsleves for not knowing about the levees
[ Parent ]

Significant genetic factors? (3.00 / 3) (#151)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:06:11 PM EST

There are significant genetic factors involved
Isn't the latest excuse 'slow metabolism'? Which in very rare cases, I agree can be the cause, but not as a general rule.
as well as other lifestyle issues
Yes, like laziness. Lack of willpower. Or self control, maybe?

[ Parent ]
No! It's a carb conspiracy! (3.00 / 5) (#156)
by rusty on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:26:43 PM EST

Many Americans are genetically predisposed to sleeping at night, which (as we all know) is when the evil carbs sneak into their bedrooms and breed in their stomachs, completely negating the healthful effects of their strict daytime diet of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, iceberg lettuce, and animal fat.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
oh, how the mighty have fallen [nt] (2.00 / 2) (#161)
by speek on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:36:42 PM EST


--
al queda is kicking themsleves for not knowing about the levees
[ Parent ]

More than you might think (none / 0) (#191)
by minerboy on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:39:01 PM EST

Genetics is the foundation. Studies of twins indicate that about 50% to 70% of the tendency toward obesity is inherited. the article continues - "the genetic tendency to obesity is both metabolic and behavioral. In other words, obesity occurs mostly because of disturbances in the body's regulation of fat and calories, but also because of biologically based abnormalities in food cravings, satiety and eating patterns."

I guess its not so hard to believe, if being gay can be genetic, so can being fat



[ Parent ]
nigga please (3.00 / 2) (#155)
by Wah on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:25:07 PM EST

There are significant genetic factors involved, as well as other lifestyle issues.

Yes, the genetic factor is that organisms based off the human genome store excess caloric energy in the form of fat.

Sedentary lifestyle is another big one, but my favorite is the high-sucrose corn syrup/sugar bait and switch angle.  IIRC, there is a molecular difference between the two that makes metabolizing the stuff fairly inefficient.  The political angle that Bill Maher brought up the other day is corn subsidies, in that they make the syrup free while sugar still costs money, but that is three or four degress of cause removed from the fact of the American Fat Ass.

It's something we have to work on.
--
umm, holding, holding...
[ Parent ]

Great way to harm the U.S. economy (3.00 / 7) (#101)
by michaelmalak on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:48:17 AM EST

U.S. exports have been suffering due to worldwide anti-U.S. backlash. Subway tries to capitalize on that sentiment to increase U.S. exports, and Congress applies pressure for them to stop. That will just increase the trade deficit, which will increase the budget deficit, which will give Congress less money to spend. But I guess it's more important that they grandstand to get votes than it is for them to spend on pork to get votes.

Ah, the political economy wins out over the U.S. economy.

At least pork would have served the public, even though it would have been a misdirected investment as the Austrians say. All we have to show for this is hot air and chest thumping.

--
BergamoAcademy.com  Authentic Montessori in Denver

I'm pretty sure that (none / 1) (#123)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:36:39 AM EST

Subway isn't manufacturing sandwiches in Ohio and then shipping them to Germany.

I've never known a weasel to lie to me, whore himself out for money or pretend that the weasel competing with him is hungrier than he is. Goddamn it, w
[ Parent ]
You forgot "services" (3.00 / 2) (#135)
by michaelmalak on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:54:45 AM EST

The trade deficit takes into account both products and services, and I'm pretty sure that franchising fees would count as a service. The only evidence I could find from Google was that in 1998 the U.S. Department of Commerce cooperated with the International Franchising Association to "promote U.S. franchising industry."

Of course, from a global perspective, it's just as well that U.S. cultural imperialism is being cut back. The multi-national corporations, among other things, are turning the world into a mono-culture. From a selfish U.S. resident point of view, though, Congress' actions hit the pocketbook.

--
BergamoAcademy.com  Authentic Montessori in Denver
[ Parent ]

Evidence doesn't support your claims. (none / 0) (#171)
by RyoCokey on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:06:03 PM EST

There US trade deficit continues the same trend it's been on since at least 1992.



The troops returning home are worried. "We've lost the peace," men tell you. "We can't make it stick
[
Parent ]
That was May. June broke record with 20% spike. (none / 0) (#186)
by michaelmalak on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:31:50 PM EST

The Asia Times article you linked quotes the figure for May ($46.8 billion). But according to an Excel spreadsheet from the U.S. Department of Commerce, the June deficit (the most recent month for which data is available) was $55.8 billion, which is a sudden 20% spike over the gradual erosion you indicated.

--
BergamoAcademy.com  Authentic Montessori in Denver
[ Parent ]
So you're saying... (none / 1) (#198)
by RyoCokey on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:19:26 PM EST

...that after the entire Iraqi war, run-up, etc, people decided to boycott American goods in earnest starting this month? That's nonsensical.



The troops returning home are worried. "We've lost the peace," men tell you. "We can't make it stick
[
Parent ]
You're going to believe Snow? (none / 0) (#216)
by michaelmalak on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:36:50 PM EST

Snow claims
"The United States is growing much faster than the rest of the world, and what that causes, of course, is this imbalance: we have more income and more prosperity," Snow said. "And part of that is used to buy goods and services from around the world.:
Yeah, right. Do you feel more prosperous this year? I think I'll believe a Wall Street analyst first. From the same Bloomberg article:
...Joseph Abate, a senior economist at Lehman Brothers in New York [said t]he gap "suggests that demand is being met from foreign rather than domestic production and employment."
And why would this substitution be taking place, given the weaker dollar (making U.S. goods and services more affordable outside the U.S.)?

--
BergamoAcademy.com  Authentic Montessori in Denver
[ Parent ]
Wait, what? (none / 0) (#247)
by RyoCokey on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 04:26:19 PM EST

I didn't say anything about why I felt the US trade deficit continued to grow. I just said that the idea that it was due to a boycott of US goods was nonsensical.



The troops returning home are worried. "We've lost the peace," men tell you. "We can't make it stick
[
Parent ]
Prosperity in patches (none / 0) (#303)
by Hatamoto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:15:03 AM EST

I'm sure that prosperity is growing in specific sectors for specific people. The problem is that chances are you aren't one of them, and neither is anyone you know, or anyone THEY know... unless they happen to know CEOs or other modern day robber-barons that are pulling up the mean GDP.

Of course, if you're completely vested into the concept of trickle-down, the idea of the uber rich getting money is just the start of the money flow cycle. The people in charge of making that policy at present are those types of people.

So when they say "prosperity is up", they may well honestly believe it, because they figure that money will find its way to the little people in the fullness of time.

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)
[ Parent ]

But Dubbya says... (2.50 / 2) (#218)
by elgardo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:45:51 PM EST

> U.S. exports have been suffering due to worldwide anti-U.S. backlash.

If I remember correctly, Dubbya's sentiment is that the US doesn't NEED to make business with the rest of the world. It's the rest of the world who should be extatic about making business with the US, the US is doing the rest of the world a favour, not the other way around.

[ Parent ]

Too Good to Be True (2.85 / 7) (#118)
by Juppon Gatana on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:12:18 AM EST

When I read the first couple paragraphs, I sarcastically thought to myself, "this is just another example of the blame-America-first psychosis on a global scale." And then, of course, I came upon this:
US House Majority Leader Tom DeLay went as far as issuing a statement against Subway stating, "It is clear that Subway has done very well for decades due to the patronage of Americans. For Subway to thumb its nose at its American customers and promote Michael Moore's blame-America-first conspiracy in a foreign country is very concerning."
After all, who can blame Americans for gorging themselves at every possible moment? The fact that we're the fattest nation on Earth (with well over 1 in 2 adults being overweight) isn't our responsibility. It's only the filthy, AIDS-infected liberal anarchist communists (also known as "anarchommunists") who dare to suggest that we should accept culpability for our addiction to food.

Then again, I can see why Mr. Delay might like the idea of shirking individual responsibility.

- Juppon Gatana
能ある鷹は爪を隠す。
(Nou aru taka wa tsume wo kakusu.)
I was going to post a long rant here (3.00 / 6) (#126)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:49:29 AM EST

but my fingers are all greasy.

Excuse me, time for brunch!

I've never known a weasel to lie to me, whore himself out for money or pretend that the weasel competing with him is hungrier than he is. Goddamn it, w
[ Parent ]

Oh Porkchop D Clown! (none / 0) (#133)
by Juppon Gatana on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:28:40 AM EST

You truly are the king of kings. And porkchops.

- Juppon Gatana
能ある鷹は爪を隠す。
(Nou aru taka wa tsume wo kakusu.)
[ Parent ]
Is it just me (2.66 / 6) (#136)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 10:56:12 AM EST

Or has Michael Moore got absolutely fuck all to do with this? And could the judge possibly have meant Morgan Spurlock instead?

They all look the same these commie directors. Talk about flying your right-wing bias on a flag for all to see.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

Well he is kind of rotund (none / 0) (#138)
by GenerationY on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:01:31 AM EST

and ironically his critics have often used that against him.

[ Parent ]
I get it now (none / 1) (#140)
by nebbish on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:07:19 AM EST

I think

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

Its a paradox (3.00 / 8) (#165)
by GenerationY on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:40:46 PM EST

Fat is a patriotic issue.
Moore is UnAmerican.
Moore is fat so can be ignored.
McDonalds makes people fat.
Subway is an American company.
Bush is an idiot.
Bush is thin. Moore is fat.
Argh....

Its the kind of thing they feed to computers when they want to make the "logic circuits" explode in pulp sci-fi.

[ Parent ]

Personal Responsibility vs. Public Ridicule (1.50 / 2) (#147)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:52:45 AM EST

I accept culpability for my addiction to food. I do not accept that any skinny shithead who is grasping at straws for something to be proud of has the right to ridicule me for being fat -- and then claim I have no right to verbally punch him in the face for ridiculing me.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
hm (3.00 / 4) (#158)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:30:54 PM EST

I accept culpability for my addiction to food.

I presume then you've informed your health insurance provider that they no longer should be covering you then? I don't understand your statement about an addiction to food, either. Are you seeking medical attention?

I do not accept that any skinny shithead who is grasping at straws for something to be proud of has the right to ridicule me for being fat.

I'm not sure I can agree. One should absolutely not insult someone for personal appearances outside of their control -- it's insane that people make fun of people's noses, etc. But keep in mind that usually when someone is ridiculed for being fat, the basis for the ridicule is the absolute lack of willpower which is demonstrated. We absolutely should -- perhaps we must? -- bring public shame to those who refuse to take basic care of themselves, burdening society.

I have absolutely no problem with someone eating themselves to death on their couch. I don't care, it doesn't hurt me. But in the increasingly socialistic health care system of the US, every single person who destroys their own health through overeating is stealing from the rest of the taxpayers. Stealing.

Opt out of the health care system if you want to continue to kill yourself.

That said I have never, ever, ever made fun of anyone in my life to my recollection, perhaps a 6th grade classmate might disagree but I really can't remember such an event.

If this sounds callous or evil, I really don't mean to be. Tone doesn't come across on text. I am a very compassionate person, I just don't see how grossly overweight people can live like that.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

ya? (none / 1) (#213)
by speek on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:26:11 PM EST

You would support the ridicule of people who do stuff that's bad for them (smokers, over-eaters, wage-earners, school drop-outs, marathon runners,etc) but you would also make sure we understand you are "compassionate" and have never ridiculed anyone in your life? Frankly, that's kind of like me who thinks it's fine to download copyright protected music but would never do it myself. Completely contradictory.

--
al queda is kicking themsleves for not knowing about the levees
[ Parent ]

No hypocracy! (none / 0) (#338)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 06:44:25 PM EST

It's not hypocracy, he's just a wussy. He doesn't want to get yelled at. :P

SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
You really do sound worked up. (3.00 / 5) (#175)
by spasticfraggle on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:24:14 PM EST

Do you think it's OK for you to be however fat it is that you are?

If so, why the hell do you care what random other people think?

I never had such a bizarre experience as when people tried to insult me by calling me "gay". They might as well have said that I had two legs.

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

two legs (none / 1) (#206)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:15:08 PM EST

I never had such a bizarre experience as when people tried to insult me by calling me "gay". They might as well have said that I had two legs.

That is a great sentiment. I have a similar reaction when people call me a "communist" as if they're insulting me or something.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

If you are... (none / 1) (#227)
by CorwIn of Amber on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:09:29 PM EST

... so fat as to be laughed at in the first place, stop eating.

Idiot.

-Do you realize the suicide rate we'd have if people killed themselves just because they're stupid?
-Yes, an acceptable one.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for useless advice. Here's some for you: (none / 0) (#270)
by rpresser on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:09:45 AM EST

If you are so stupid as to make pointless comments like that, stop talking. Or thinking. Or breathing. Any of them would improve the world.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
grandparent comment (none / 1) (#287)
by altair1 on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 02:39:27 AM EST

His comment didn't sound too stupid to me. Too fat? Don't eat so much. Although that sure isn't as easy as taking the fad diet pill of the month while sitting on your ass watching TV.

[ Parent ]
Read more carefully (none / 0) (#352)
by rpresser on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 12:04:36 AM EST

  1. I didn't say his comment was stupid; I said his comment was useless, and that he was stupid to post it.
  2. The same goes for your comment.
Both your comment and his are useless in that they absolutely nothing new to the discussion; twice useless in that they will not influence me or my behavior, or anyone's, in the slightest particular; and thrice useless in that even if either was the ONLY comment to put forward that mind-numbingly smallminded opionion, they would still be useless in the first two particulars.

------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
addiction to food? (3.00 / 3) (#149)
by Delirium on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:58:36 AM EST

There's no US-specific "addiction" to food. It's simply the case that given essentially unlimited access to fatty foods, the majority of people will consume them. Europe is quickly becoming fatter and fatter, and will catch up with the US in not too many years. See another comment for more references.

[ Parent ]
I'm glad to see the Krauts developing whimsy (1.50 / 12) (#122)
by Knot In The Face on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:30:48 AM EST

Jerry has certainly come a long way since his stalwart squarehead days.  Good on you, Fritz, for coming up with such a cute pet name for Americans, you sausage sucking huns.

Why does rusty vote for Kerry yet act like Bush? - exotron
Was the withdrawal justified? (2.33 / 3) (#124)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:48:24 AM EST

Of course it was justified. The purpose of an ad is to convince people to buy your product, right? The last thing any company wants is an ad that causes people to dislike your product.

The moment that ad started turning up in news articles it was doomed.

I've never known a weasel to lie to me, whore himself out for money or pretend that the weasel competing with him is hungrier than he is. Goddamn it, w

Dude, you can't buy publicity like that! (2.75 / 4) (#141)
by nlscb on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:07:40 AM EST

I am not sure people would have boycotted it. I would have gone just for the hell of it.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

Doesn't matter. (none / 1) (#190)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:38:20 PM EST

Few companies are brave enough to bet on the "any publicity is good publicity" argument - particularly when dealing with the American Right which has a history of organizing boycotts.

I've never known a weasel to lie to me, whore himself out for money or pretend that the weasel competing with him is hungrier than he is. Goddamn it, w
[ Parent ]
When has the Right had a successful boycot? (none / 0) (#200)
by nlscb on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:35:50 PM EST

Not when they threatened one, but made good on it after the company refused to budge. With Hollywood at least (no small family business there), they just get laughed at. Has the right actually ever really succeeded? It always stuck me that the pros at boycotts were the left (Nike, Burger King and tropical meat burgers, etc ...)

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

They messed with Proctor & Gamble (2.50 / 2) (#259)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 09:53:52 PM EST

something awful back in the 80's when the rumor was that P&G was owned by the moonies. They did force parental advisories on the music and gaming companies, as well. I remember P&G spent quite some effort trying to convince people that the moon logo they used to put on all their products had nothing to do with Rev. Moon.

But, you're right, now that I think of it, it's been a while since I've seen the right organize a good boycott.

I've never known a weasel to lie to me, whore himself out for money or pretend that the weasel competing with him is hungrier than he is. Goddamn it, w
[ Parent ]

7-11 and skin mags (none / 1) (#355)
by revscat on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 01:42:02 PM EST

A right wing boycott was responsible for 7-11 pulling Playboy and Penthouse out of their stories.

- Rev.
Libertarianism is like communism: both look great on paper.
[ Parent ]
Exactly. (none / 0) (#298)
by jadibd on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:13:10 PM EST

Just after reading this thread was the very first time I ever consciously noticed a subway store. I'd never have noticed them for their ads, funny as they might be, because they seamlessly blend into the usual background noise.

[ Parent ]
What I find funny here (2.72 / 22) (#129)
by xutopia on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 09:59:37 AM EST

is that it is ok for the house to rename French fries to Freedom fries out of spite (for telling them that Iraq was not a threat) but it's not ok for a company to let people know that they can get fat by eating too much Macdonalds.

Let me get this straight. The US is allowed to whine and bully other countries, but a fast food joint promoting health is anti-American! :) hahahaha

Come to think of it the US has always carricatured other countries with sometimes medieval time clichees. And now when the obesity crisis is hitting the rest of the world, countries are not allowed to point in the direction of the problem because the problem is an American life style? Give me a break, swallow your pride Americans instead of your fries. You're fat and the rest of the world doesn't want to become you.

Ok, I'll set you straight (2.90 / 11) (#162)
by jolly st nick on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:37:09 PM EST

Let me get this straight. The US is allowed to whine and bully other countries, but a fast food joint promoting health is anti-American! :) hahahaha

You're not supposed to take what DeLay says seriously. You're not supposed to take the Freedom Fries seriously. It's not aimed at you. It's for the unwashed masses the politicians so contemptuously manipulate. You, the sophisticate who does things like read, are only meant to admire the artfulness with which they game the chumps.

It's all just bread in circuses.

You don't seriously think these guys actually went home and poured the Chateau Lafitte they bought as a wine investment down the toilet do you? They're grown ups and, I suspect in the privacy of their homes act like grown ups.

[ Parent ]

The phrase... (3.00 / 2) (#176)
by BJH on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:27:31 PM EST

...is "bread and circuses".
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
I know that (3.00 / 2) (#257)
by jolly st nick on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 07:57:29 PM EST

now tell my fingers.

[ Parent ]
Grown ups? (none / 0) (#217)
by elgardo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 05:41:46 PM EST

> I suspect in the privacy of their homes act like grown ups.

Ooooh! So Dubbya acts like a kid only at work, not at home! I understand now...

[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0) (#336)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 04:40:54 PM EST

I'd be willing to bet money that he acts like a depraived ex coke feind at home. An adult depraived ex coke fiend, mind you. ;)
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
EAT YOUR SANDVICH UNT LISTEN TO KRAFTWERK! (2.50 / 16) (#139)
by CAPS LOCK on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:06:09 AM EST

SCHNELL!

Don't throw rocks from glass houses - (2.28 / 7) (#142)
by nlscb on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 11:15:53 AM EST

While I do think the burger 9/11 ad was a bit tasteless, I don't think k5ers, including myself, can point too many fingers.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

It was an American corporation that did this. (2.50 / 2) (#154)
by wireless orc on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:17:24 PM EST

So why don't you attack American corporations instead of Germans?

No, a German franchisee of an American franchise (3.00 / 3) (#169)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:01:04 PM EST

The German franchisee hired a German marketing firm to produce this ad. At no time was the "home base" in America consulted -- because no permission was necessary.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
Jesus H... (2.64 / 17) (#160)
by TheGreenLantern on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:34:56 PM EST

...skateboarding, tapdancing, lovemaking, terrorist-fighting, beer-chugging, Nobel-Peace-Prize-Winning, Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America-killing Chirst! Why the fuck do any of us care what German Subway restraunts are putting on their fucking placemats?

As long as it's not "The Fourth Reich is Nigh", shut the fuck up about it. There, Godwins Law, end this now.

It hurts when I pee.
To You and I (2.20 / 5) (#168)
by WaltFrench on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 12:50:15 PM EST

Actually, it would be "to you and me." (Would you say, "to I?" )

It's easy to know when you should use one or the other: take off the "you and" part; does it sound right?"

At our current rate, even that may soon fail and we will have to go to the fundamental "subject" versus "object" definitions that would be way over most people's heads. (By the way, it works on the first half, too, so you can distinguish "he and I went biking" from "that belongs to him and me." Easy, no?)

How can we claim to have insights into cultures when we can't even claim 4th-grade communication skills in our language?

"Inquiring Minds Want to Know!"
Depends (1.25 / 4) (#197)
by rmn on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:11:39 PM EST

Depends on whether you mean "to (you and I)" or "(to you) and ([to] me)".

RMN
~~~

[ Parent ]

What? (none / 0) (#326)
by bigdavex on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 10:42:31 PM EST

Maybe you could clarify with some examples of what you mean. I'm pretty sure it's always "to you and me".

[ Parent ]
Its a social problem (2.80 / 15) (#177)
by baalz on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:28:55 PM EST

I'm amazed at the number of posts that basically say "Americans just need to stop fucking eating so much".  This isn't about some people having a weak will.  When you get to the point that such a large percentage of the population is habitually behaving in a self destructive manner, maybe it's time to stop and figure out why the hell its happening rather than looking down your nose at every person who is obviously inferior to you.  American obesity is a cultural sickness, and condescending comments about overweight individuals don't accomplish anything other than trying to make you feel better about yourself.  

American culture is causing the problem.  All you can eat buffets, super sized meals, and the fact that most meals served have enough food for two adults are one part of the equation.  Abundant availability of cheap high calorie sugar and fats is another factor.  The convoluted way diet and nutrition is preached (a 1000 different diets from Atkins to Weight Watcher points) is a third problem.  Unfortunately, many people are not taught HOW to eat right, and the prevailing culture pushes many of them into obesity.  McDonalds commercials teach them how to eat.  Humongous portions teach them how to eat.  Lack of caloric information on menus (this is starting to get somewhat better) teach them how to choose their food.  

The problem is systematic (1/3 of the population!) and approaching it from an individual standpoint is not feasible.  Sure, individuals can overcome a tendency for overweight, but to solve an epidemic of overeating we need to fix the system that is causing it.  

Who fucking cares who's fault it is?  You can stand around all day pointing fingers a who is supposed to take personal responsibility, or you can try and figure out the best way to a solution.   Telling fat people to grow a spine doesn't seem to work too well


a "culture" problem? (2.50 / 2) (#181)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:38:17 PM EST

The problem is systematic (1/3 of the population!) and approaching it from an individual standpoint is not feasible.  Sure, individuals can overcome a tendency for overweight, but to solve an epidemic of overeating we need to fix the system that is causing it.

One way to change the culture is to tell every single person who is overweight: "You are overweight and you can change." Another way is to hold debates and shake our heads and hope somebody comes up with a solution to the "systematic" problem.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

This is why we have Dr. Phil [n/t] (none / 0) (#208)
by skim123 on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:18:17 PM EST


Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
I acutally saw fat people on Dr Phil (none / 1) (#305)
by spasticfraggle on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:56:35 AM EST

(Not that I ever watch it of course ^_^)

Anyway, it was all focused on "acceptance". The three women all said that they'd tried dieting but it had only made them gain more weight - Dr Phil didn't say anything.

During the whole program he refused to take the obvious position: you can lose weight if you eat less and exercise more.

I don't know how he can sleep at night. He's part of the problem. Still, he has an attractive thin wife and lots of cash rolling in...

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]

When I was at school (3.00 / 6) (#182)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:44:38 PM EST

We had classes that dealt with this very issue (healthy eating/living), this was in the UK. Is there really nothing like this in US schools?

[ Parent ]
not as far as I remember (3.00 / 7) (#193)
by baalz on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:51:25 PM EST

I vaguely remember maybe somebody talking about the food pyramid, and that you were supposed to eat so many servings of fruits and vegetables and so man of breads and cereals.  Probably a good suggestion, but certainly nothing relevant to weight control which is the issue in question here.  Definitely nothing immensely useful like the amazingly simple idea that ((calories in) - (calories burned)) / 3500 = lbs of fat gained.  Definitely nothing like teaching me to look at the calories in the foods I ate, or control portions and not finish whatever is set in front of me just because it's there.  Having struggled with my weight a good chunk of my life, I am quite simply amazed at how easy it is to control your weight by simply knowing a few simple things.  It doesn't even really take willpower, just knowledge.

[ Parent ]
That's basically it (3.00 / 3) (#196)
by eejit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 03:02:45 PM EST

I am quite simply amazed at how easy it is to control your weight by simply knowing a few simple things.
(That)

Not only were we told this, we had classes were it was demonstrated to us, and we joined in, and it was actually kinda fun. Probably one of the few times in school were you don't actually realise that you are learning something very important.

[ Parent ]
question though: (none / 0) (#204)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:08:11 PM EST

does the following need to be taught?

"If you are getting fat, take a look at what you are eating?"

At some point in their growth, people who are currently 100 pounds overweight were once 50 pounds overweight. How do they add 50 more pounds? I just don't understand the thought process.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

Which? (none / 0) (#225)
by CorwIn of Amber on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:44:32 PM EST

Note : I assume "overweight" and "obese" are synonyms. English is not my native language. And I hate having to use a dictionnary. Please let me know if the meanings are sufficiently different to not use them interchangeably (and if so, please tell me the exact definition of both both as names and as adjectives.)

The question is "which thought process?"

Well, I assume that for 30% of the American population, being obese is either
(a) going unnoticed (HOW can they do that?),
(b) not considered a problem (what with obviously overweight childhood heroes? No, not only Homer Simpson; I'm thinking of any friendly-looking -and obese- character in various cartoons),
(c) percieved as a small problem requiring too much effort to solve,
(d) a means of suing anyone who looks at you in a funny way, or just bitch that they're speaking plain English instead of politically-correct nonsense.

I had other ideas about that, but forgot them. I'll post them later if I think of it.

-Do you realize the suicide rate we'd have if people killed themselves just because they're stupid?
-Yes, an acceptable one.


[ Parent ]
Simple definitions: (none / 1) (#335)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 04:21:04 PM EST

Overweight is being above (If I recall correctly) 25BMI. Obease is something like 30. Morbidly obease is over 40.

So...

Overweight = "a little chunky"

Obease = "wow, that's a fatty!"

Morbidly Obease = "Holy fuck! That's a huge bitch!"
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

The difference (none / 0) (#337)
by Cro Magnon on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 04:56:53 PM EST

It's a question of how much overweight you are. For many people, being overweight is NOT a serious problem. My BMI of 27 puts me in the overweight category, but I'm still healthy with good blood pressure and cholestoral counts. And there's so many other overweight people around that I seem to be "average".
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
Cultural norms? (none / 0) (#228)
by CwazyWabbit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:11:00 PM EST

Maybe people don't connect it with their eating as everybody around them is has the same diet and habits? If your eating is usual compared to those about you, then why would you consider "normal" eating a problem?
--
"But here's the thing: if people hand me ammunition, what kind of misanthrope would I be if I didn't use it?" - Sarah-Katherine
[ Parent ]
They don't see themselves as fat. (2.50 / 2) (#238)
by mcgrew on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:54:18 PM EST

They look at the underweight (and even the healthy) with pity.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

If you're not the only one... (2.50 / 2) (#240)
by eLoco on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:00:13 PM EST

Society defines what is acceptable, so if portliness is commonplace then maybe it is also perceived as more or less acceptable. Add to that the fact that the American mainstream media don't give much exposure to foreign cultures, and it's not hard to see how some might never suspect that there were anything wrong.

[ Parent ]
Repetition doesn't make your point correct (none / 1) (#317)
by baalz on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 11:57:45 AM EST

You're missing my point.  Yes, it's obvious to you.  You don't understand how anyone could not understand how to eat healthy because you've learned how to do it and what to look for.  My point is it is NOT obvious to most Americans how to eat healthy.  This isn't an issue of one person having no willpower, it's an issue of a significant portion of the population being taught unhealthy behaviors.  Wherever they go, they're served huge portions of unhealthy food.  Most of the people they know and socialize with eat huge portions of unhealthy food.  Many factors pressure them to eat huge portions (it's a much better deal to triple the size of my fries for a few more cents....its a waste not to eat the fries I just paid for).  Most of the time a waiter brings them food its huge portions.  Caloric information generally isn't displayed on menus, and even when it's available many people don't know what they should be looking for.  Obviously a motivated person can overcome all these issues, but mindlessly shouting "Eat less!  Exercise more!" ignores what the real problem is, and furthermore is not a solution many people can implement without some training.

[ Parent ]
Amen. (none / 0) (#334)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 04:15:16 PM EST

Amen. In January I started the process of learning how to maintain my weight with my brain instead of my heart. After you start getting rid of these stupid ideas like metabolism(which obviously exists, but obviously isn't so strong a motivator as urban legend has it!!), "healthy foods"(most muffins are 800 calories. Unless you REALLY like muffins, that's a HUGE sacrifice for a tiny little muffin! It's on the list of "healthy" foods according to urban legend!), and even that excersize cures all fat(you'd have to cycle as hard as your body will go for about 8 hours straight to work off a big bag of chips, though you can cut that down to about 1 and a half if you just want the little grab bag), losing weight becomes a game by the numbers, and as I'm sure you know, a whole lot easier. :)
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
Food industry lobbying (2.66 / 3) (#226)
by CwazyWabbit on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:06:52 PM EST

IIRC this topic from the fuss over WHO's advice on sugar intake. Although I can't find a link through Google, it appeared that the food industry lobbied for information to be presented to US school children as "Do more exercise to be healthy!" avoiding messages like "Too much sugar is bad for you!". Sorry I couldn't find anything to back this up.
--
"But here's the thing: if people hand me ammunition, what kind of misanthrope would I be if I didn't use it?" - Sarah-Katherine
[ Parent ]
there is -nt (none / 0) (#229)
by MrLarch on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:25:38 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Hmm. (none / 0) (#243)
by sonovel on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:38:51 PM EST

What country is the fattest in the EU? Think those classes really worked?

[ Parent ]
They worked, yes (none / 0) (#249)
by eejit on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 05:00:07 PM EST

Think those classes really worked?
Not me nor any of the people I'm still in contact with from school are overweight.
Can you say the same thing?

[ Parent ]
So ... (none / 0) (#271)
by sonovel on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:24:08 AM EST

The UK doesn't have such classes except in a small number of schools?

Because if it were universal, the UKs status as fattest nation in Europe would seem to show they don't work.

[ Parent ]

let's change the topic: (1.57 / 7) (#183)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 01:47:11 PM EST

I'm amazed at the number of posts that basically say "Americans just need to start reading more".  This isn't about some people having a weak will.  When you get to the point that such a large percentage of the population is habitually behaving in a self destructive manner, maybe it's time to stop and figure out why the hell its happening rather than looking down your nose at every person who is obviously inferior to you.  American obesity is a cultural sickness, and condescending comments about overweight individuals don't accomplish anything other than trying to make you feel better about yourself.  

American culture is causing the problem. South Park Marathons, VH1's "I Love the 80s", and reality TV are one part of the equation.  Abundant availability of free over-the-air broadcasts and cheap cable is another factor.  The convoluted way reading and learning is preached is a third problem.  Unfortunately, many people are not taught HOW to learn right, and the prevailing culture pushes many of them into ignorance.

The problem is systematic (1/3 of the population!) and approaching it from an individual standpoint is not feasible.  Sure, individuals can overcome a tendency for stupidity, but to solve an epidemic of ignorance we need to fix the system that is causing it.  

Who fucking cares who's fault it is?  You can stand around all day pointing fingers a who is supposed to take personal responsibility, or you can try and figure out the best way to a solution.   Telling illiterate people to grow a spine doesn't seem to work too well.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

McDonalds.... why is it (3.00 / 7) (#236)
by mcgrew on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:50:44 PM EST

small fries cost more than medium fries? Why is a double cheeseburger half the price of a cheeseburger?

Why is their smallest soft drink sixteen ounces? When I was a kid, a small coke at McDonalds was eight ounces and a large was sixteen.

New McDonalds sizes- Large, Medium, and FUCKING HUGE.

Even real restaraunts give you boatloads of food. A Mexican restaraunt here advertises "burritos as big as your head!"

And wasting it is shameful. BUt what can you do, aside from taking half of it home in a doggy bag so it rots in the fridge before you throw it away?

On the other hand, America is, as the commercial puts it, "breadbasket to the world." It's not like all this food is grown in Europe and the 3rd world starves because we buy it all and there isn't any left.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

My problem with this (2.50 / 8) (#192)
by SocratesGhost on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 02:44:44 PM EST

It would be one thing if Subway attempted to do something constructive. They weren't. They were trying to peddle more pastrami to the Germans. They weren't pointing out a problem to overweight Americans otherwise the ad would likely have been written in English and be present in some Subways here in America. I think the people who say that Subway is only pointing out the truth should ask to whom they are pointing it out: to the people who could benefit from the criticism or to people who will find schadenfreude and consequently buy more sandwiches.

It's true that Americans are overweight and hopefully there will be enough lifestyle changes across the country to make this less common. But this ad does nothing to help; it insults us in order to make a deutschmark. The problem with this is the same thing as insulting your best friend in order to score points with a girl.

-Soc
I drank what?


analogies! (none / 0) (#205)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:12:07 PM EST

The problem with this is the same thing as insulting your best friend in order to score points with a girl.

I like the analogy... but if your friend has just spilled his beer on your shoes, you should loudly proclaim that he's an ass.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

to him, yes. (none / 1) (#211)
by SocratesGhost on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:27:57 PM EST

don't just whisper it in another language to the hot german blonde in the corner. ;)

And aren't fat americans making Subway wealthy? How is that comparable to spilling beer on your shoes? No, it's like going up to the german blonde, looking at your fat friend who even drove you to the bar, and then trying to formulate a pick up line like, "If there's someone for everyone, I pity the girl made for him."

-Soc
I drank what?


[ Parent ]
e-gad (2.66 / 3) (#242)
by gdanjo on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:31:57 PM EST

It's true that Americans are overweight and hopefully there will be enough lifestyle changes across the country to make this less common. But this ad does nothing to help; it insults us in order to make a deutschmark. [...]
And this is different to other companies in the following ways: a) there is no a).

Who says that everything must have utility? That everything must be "for the better good"? Why shouldn't the Germans be able to take the piss to make a buck? Hasn't America been doing this forever? I mean, it's not like American movies promote World Peace in their movies - they generally make Americans the heroes and the rest of the world vilans. Newsflash: Germany is no longer a Nazi Nation, and yet American culture still generates Nazi movies. What is the utility of that?

The problem with this is the same thing as insulting your best friend in order to score points with a girl.
*sniff* What's that burning smell?

Dan ...
"Death - oh! fair and `guiling copesmate Death!
Be not a malais'd beggar; claim this bloody jester!"
-ToT
[ Parent ]

uh (none / 0) (#265)
by reklaw on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 05:34:58 AM EST

But this ad does nothing to help; it insults us in order to make a deutschmark.

That'd be a euro, good sir.
-
[ Parent ]

They do! (none / 0) (#333)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 03:48:29 PM EST

They run the same sort of ads in North America, you know. They just don't use such blunt language, because they know americans will overreact. :P
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]
Now that I think of it, (2.83 / 6) (#209)
by ksandstr on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:20:06 PM EST

Maybe calling americans "fat fucks", "whiny lardasses" and whatever else isn't all that fair, except in reaction to their almost rabid, bloodthirsty vilification of the French as "cowards" (implying that Napoleon didn't, after all, conquer most of Europe) or their other acts of gross dumbassery.

Another poster commented that obesity is going to become, or already is, a major cultural problem in the USA, and I have to agree. There is also the cultural tension caused by the collective display of vomituous gluttony on their part, which is bound to become a major chafe on people from the famine-suffering part of the third world eventually. It's obvious however that the Americans are going to have to solve the problem themselves, and calling them fat fucks (which they arguably are, some of the time -- the "fucks" part anyway) isn't helping any.

Also, I would like to add that the images of morbidly obese americans occasionally shown on the telly have served, and continue to serve as a counterexample that inspires me to never ever let myself get overweight.


People who use broad overgeneralization are idiots (2.00 / 3) (#210)
by regeya on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 04:21:04 PM EST

[nt]

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]
[ Parent ]

Go commit suicide, suomalainen (1.25 / 4) (#254)
by porp on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 06:02:52 PM EST

'A major cultural problem in the USA'? Have you been here? No one sits around sweating and agonizing over the 'major cultural problem' of fatassness. As well, your ideas of the 'vilification' of the French are meaningless, as meaningless as me calling the Finnish suicide rates (one of the highest in the world) due to their vilification of, say, Soviet Russia. Meaningless, in other words. You've never committed suicide, and I'm not fat. You've reduced the entire thing to the level of banal labels and thoughtless stereotype, because, heck, it's EASIER to talk about Fat America hating the Cowardly French than to actually discuss or argue with even the questionable support of personal anectdote. The main objection to Subway isn't that that they called American's fat. It's that they did it to make money, and did it to a foreign audience. Americans can and do take plenty of criticism all of the time. American articles on obesity are quite common in newspapers and news reports, but to hear it from a health report and to hear it from a for-profit company doing it to earn money are different things.

[ Parent ]
What's wrong with you? (none / 0) (#294)
by dazk on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 10:47:00 AM EST

Come on.

Subway makes fun of fat americans to sell sandwitches and make some bucks.

Bush starts a war so he and his fellows can make major buck and hides his real intentions behind some talk first about weapons of mass destructions which were never there and then about freeing the people of Iraq. Then we have all the incidents in prisons controlled by american soldiers and the story continues. (This is just a brief summary of the events, so please don't complain I reduced the idea. Didn't want to write a history book just to put down all the facts.)

What is worse? Making some fun of obese Americans to make some money or starting a war to make money seriously cripling the authority of the UN in the process?
----- Copy kills music! Naaah! Greedyness kills Brain! Counter: Bought 17CDs this year because I found tracks of an album on fileshare and wanted it all.
[ Parent ]

GODWIN, dumbfuck. (none / 1) (#363)
by porp on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 03:27:58 AM EST

What the fucking blazes are YOU talking about?

Can you address the issue of this article, which is the ADVERTISEMENT, instead of going into random 'Americans are evil, so all attacks are justified' rant-land? If we're playing that game, dumbfuck, I'll just say 'What's worse, killing a few thousands Iraqi civilians and giving them something close to democracy, or invading Poland, France, Holland, and slaughtering 6 million Jews? Come on.' See where your idiocy leaves you? And there's no way you're going to get anyone to agree that anything in the world is worse than Germany's role in the 2nd World War, so you better drop that tactic, pronto.

But while you're foaming at the mouth, let me corret you on some points. WMD did exist in Iraq throughout the 70s and beyond. The WMDs were used on Kurdish civilians, this is globally accepted fact. Or did you miss that whole thing over there? Did the Frankfurter Allegemeine skip over that in your history lessons? Did Der Speigel forget to mention it? The WMDs were the reason the UN sent inspectors into Iraq, to establish that Iraq was disarming. Don't get so caught up in your anti-Bush arguments that you lose sight of facts, please. I despise Bush yet that doesn't make me try to revise history, like you did here.

[ Parent ]

weird (3.00 / 4) (#221)
by the77x42 on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 06:04:32 PM EST

I never thought subway was portrayed all that well in the film. They did the Jared bit, but he looked more like a puppet giving fake sympathy to more fat americans than anything else. I doubt the subway execs even saw the movie.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

Agreed (none / 0) (#245)
by coljac on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 04:03:21 PM EST

He was obviously just a marketing tool. When that overweight girl started crying he looked pretty damn uncomfortable, from memory. The phony smile sort of became frozen in place.

Who the hell lets a corporate flack speak to a school?



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey
[ Parent ]

Some people (2.57 / 7) (#231)
by mcgrew on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:31:14 PM EST

have no sense of humor and are too "sensitive" about how damned FAT their asses are!

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie

This was a smart advertising campaign (2.88 / 9) (#237)
by coljac on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 07:53:31 PM EST

I was in Germany just last week, and I can tell you the foremost stereotype of Americans there is being fat. Anytime we saw a fat person, the comment was that they must be "Amis". It is therefore shrewd marketing on Subway's part to use this sterotype of the fat American to promote their "healthier" food, all the more so since Americans are currently very unpopular in Germany for political reasons. Don't want to be like an American? Don't get fat. Eat Subway.

And you know, there's a lot to the sterotype. The Europeans (particuarly German women whom I spent the most time studying) are definitely thinner than Americans. Whether this is just because they all smoke, I don't know.

P.s. Ich bin ziemlich dünn, Australisch, und suche immer noch eine Deutsche Freundin. Schreib doch! :)



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey

Re: Germany (none / 1) (#248)
by eejit on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 04:57:58 PM EST

I've also lived in Germany for the past year, and it's true; what's up with everyone smoking?
Hell, they're allowed to smoke on the corridors where I work.

Least they're not so fat that I can't walk past them on the corridor though.

[ Parent ]
Smoky Germans (3.00 / 3) (#252)
by coljac on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 05:40:25 PM EST

Coming from California where it's illegal to smoke anywhere near a non-smoker, I really noticed it. Especially the kids. Every young woman seemed to have a cigarette in her hand (and a beer in the other).



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey
[ Parent ]

Europe in General... (none / 1) (#300)
by MKalus on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:37:25 PM EST

... is a lot smokier.

What I noticed here in Canada though is that mainly girls  / women seem to smoke. None of the guys I know smokes, but maybe 2/3 of the women I know do smoke.
-- Michael
[ Parent ]

It isn't the food (3.00 / 2) (#255)
by epepke on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 06:26:20 PM EST

German food: Cold cuts with great big gobbets of fat for breakfast, meat with extra fat and a side order of fat for lunch and supper, and a dessert made of fat and sugar with a little flour. Delicious, but after five days in Germany, I found myself becoming ill from all the fat and tried to spend the rest of the time eating salads.

By the way, wouldn't "dick" be a better translation than "fett"?


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Does that come with... (none / 0) (#267)
by acebone on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:15:18 AM EST

spam ?
--------- Je suis un étranger en tranché
[ Parent ]
Hmm... (none / 1) (#268)
by epepke on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:52:45 AM EST

I never saw spam there. Of course, some of the wurst is indistinguishable from spam.

I also never understood the appeal of spam since WWII. It's way more expensive than fresh meat.

On the other hand, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, lovely spam, wonderful spam.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Dick (none / 0) (#277)
by coljac on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 04:34:31 PM EST

If you like to eat great big helpings of pork, Germany's your country. I even liked the fast food there, a Döner kebap from a little Turkish hole in the wall is so much better than a bloody hamburger.

I also thought dick would be better than fett, but I both are ok.



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey
[ Parent ]

Doner Kebab (3.00 / 2) (#288)
by epepke on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 03:58:33 AM EST

As far as I have so far experienced, the Cafe Rimini in Leceister Square has the finest doner kebabs in existence, and I've looked pretty hard for these. Real slices of real lamb, and England has some of the best lamb in the world.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Umm.... (3.00 / 2) (#299)
by MKalus on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:36:16 PM EST

Okay, the food you describe reminds me more of the "continental breakfast" I always get bombarded with in American Hotels.

It is pretty much very very far away from what I ate when I grew up (and I don't think it was any different with my friends / classmates).
-- Michael
[ Parent ]

Might yet be the food (3.00 / 2) (#309)
by schrotie on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:14:51 AM EST

The actual German cuisine as you will find it in actual households of younger people (under 50) is an international mixture most heavily influenced by italian food, but ranging from China over India to Texas. You describe traditional German food which was eaten by very hard working people. It would kill anybody on an office job in a matter of weeks :-) Thorsten Roggendorf

[ Parent ]
Hehe... (none / 0) (#356)
by MKalus on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 08:54:48 PM EST

... selbst in meiner Familie gabs sowas nie. Klar gute Wurst, aber ansonsten?

Und ja, Internationales Essen ist Lecker und in den meisten Staedten gibts mehr wie Burger und Doener ;)

Gruss aus Toronto.

Michael
-- Michael
[ Parent ]

You don't get it quite right. (3.00 / 4) (#293)
by dazk on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 10:35:08 AM EST

True, people do think that there are a LOT of very fat americans. On my last trip to the US I saw more fat and especialy more extremely fat people than ever (outside the US). I guess there is some truth to saying there are a lot of very fat people in the US.

But you can repeat it as often as you want and it won't come true. *Americans* are NOT unpopular in Germany. But american politics and the current american president together with his inner circle are extremely unpopular. But who could blame any German thinking like that? All the old Europe crap and other attacks on Germany and the Germans not joining the war had their effects.

You are australian, did you really come to the conclusion that americans are unpopular and that it's not more like american politics and politicians that are viewed very negatively?

----- Copy kills music! Naaah! Greedyness kills Brain! Counter: Bought 17CDs this year because I found tracks of an album on fileshare and wanted it all.
[ Parent ]

Unpopular Americans (none / 1) (#296)
by coljac on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 12:30:29 PM EST

I didn't mean to imply that Germans hate individual Americans or that they would in any way mistreat them, say if they were visiting Germany on a holiday. However, the stereotypical American is, to my German friends, not entirely positive. Fat and ignorant are the two main adjectives I would hear; Americans have a reputation for knowing nothing about the world outside their borders. Do you disagree that Americans are viewed this way in general in Germany? (Not to mention loud, don't speak a word of German, only eat American food, etc).

As for the politics, well, that's on a whole new level of disdain. German friends have forwarded me news articles and so on with comments attached like "USA Sucks!!". Need I say more? (BTW as a US resident I agree with them wholeheartedly about the sorry state of American politics).



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey
[ Parent ]

True (none / 1) (#308)
by schrotie on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:04:12 AM EST

I am German and I can only agree to Jack's posting. When the topic on a party shifts to Americans, there will always be somebody who has visited the US on a school exchange or some such thing. And that person will with out any doubt contribute a couple of anecdotes like americans claiming Bavaria being the capital of Germany and Cote d'Ivoire being some kind of steak or what not. And he'll get laughs and assent. American ignorance is almost proverbial in Germany. And this is not comparable to jokes we break about other countryman. At least the more traveled and intelligent people recognize those as jokes, while the vast majority seems to wholly believe in American ignorance. And I must say that this is very understandable. You have to come to places like this or a read a lot of english texts to discover that the truth is as always more complicated.

As for honored G.W. ... in my department at the University any attempt to discuss Bush merely earns sad looks and shaking heads. He's not considered worth discussing since anybody has the same opinion anyway: Christian fundamentalist, fascistoid moron.

Thorsten Roggendorf

[ Parent ]

its not an american problem, its a world problem. (2.50 / 2) (#323)
by joschi on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 08:34:21 PM EST

americans just have an large head start. if you read up a little you'll find that obesity is rising across the world. humans are monkeys, you give them a big glowing red fatty food dispenser on every corner, and they will hit it hard and often, just like lab rats with their cocain buttons. take a look around the world and you'll see people of all faiths and colors chowing down on big macs... a little googling found this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2025501.stm

[ Parent ]
americans ARE fat (1.46 / 13) (#241)
by circletimessquare on Thu Aug 19, 2004 at 08:17:24 PM EST

subway did nothing wrong

the only wrong anywhere is on the part of americans, for being so fucking fat and rich

rich western fucks deserve only one fate: punished for the sins of their wasted lives and prodded into admitting and accepting that other parts of the world are worse off than them, and put to work in the 3rd world building roads, providing security against guerilla hoodlums in the jungles, and otherwise working to raise the standard of living of others out there

btw: europeans for the most part are rich western fucks too, even if they have heroin-chic builds

point being: opposition to the war in iraq is equivalent to saying to iraqis: "you don't deserve the standard of goernment that we do"

americans sent their sons and daughters to iraq so iraqis can live to the same standards that you do, who cares if it was for the stupidest of reasons or rationale, or that george w bush is moron

so you know what? americans are fat. so i say to my fellow fat americans: get to work and sweating... it IS your problem if someone else is poor in this world. don't beliee me? look at september 11th: the results of poverty comes a calling.

it is the priveledge of the rich western fucks in europe and america to go to work in the 3rd world and raise the 3rd world to the level that the west enjoys

whether that be by militarily opposing the kleptocratic megalomaniacal regimes that keep the 3rd world poor, or the guerilla pirates that patrol the jungles, there is no higher purpose for a rich westerner than working hard for their poor fellow human beings

only if you're a complete fruitcake can you possibly believe that raising the standard of living of the poor areas of the world involves no armed conflict

so you know what? americans ARE fat... clap, clap, clap

so get to work americans

AND YOU TOO RICH FUCKING EUROPEANS

so peace without security

no progress without peace

no prosperity without progress

rich fucking westerns in europe and america: roll up your sleaves, there's work to do... you have no excuse for being fat or denying the need for armed conflict to bring security to parts of the world that are poor because they have no security

that is the good all the money you have can do


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

none (none / 0) (#273)
by javaman83 on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 12:02:10 PM EST

That made almost no sense whatsoever. So it is my fault that, even though I work my ass of for every cent that I earn, that some family in Africa is poor, becuase their totalitarian dictator won't let them have a standard capitalist economy?

[ Parent ]
no, it is not your fault, it is your responsiblity (none / 1) (#279)
by circletimessquare on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 04:56:27 PM EST

the wages of income disparities in this world, of an unfair gap between the rich and the poor (not an acceptable one due to hard work versus sloth, but a disgustingly huge one due to geopolitics and socioeconomics) is this: 9/11, the french revolution, etc.

you either help poor starving africans now by sending your troops to nail that dicatator, or your grandchildren will suffer for the injustice that dicator creates in his corner of the world

the world is a very small place, and injustice somewhere becomes injustive everywhere in a very short time

what happens in kandahara matters in manhattan, what happens in mindanao matters in tokyo, what matters in lagos matters in brisbane

in ways direct or delayed, but inevitable nonetheless


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

the wages of income disparities in this world (none / 0) (#281)
by monkeymind on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:12:49 PM EST

So what percentage of your wages goes to internetional charities?

I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people and assume the deserve it.
[ Parent ]

i'll be in surigao in january (1.14 / 7) (#286)
by circletimessquare on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:37:54 PM EST

suck my big fat schlong asshole


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
And this tells me what exactly? (none / 0) (#353)
by monkeymind on Thu Aug 26, 2004 at 05:39:53 AM EST

a. you are going because the usd goes so much further in a third world country? b. you have an orphanage there you sponsor? c. you like to surf? d. you have some other interest in young children? please, you last response was so thoughtful and measured, i would like to know. cheers.

I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people and assume the deserve it.
[ Parent ]

I had more the impression (none / 0) (#310)
by CaptainZapp on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:40:17 AM EST

americans sent their sons and daughters to iraq so iraqis can live to the same standards that you do, who cares if it was for the stupidest of reasons or rationale, or that george w bush is moron

That "americans sent their sons and daughters to iraq so" that ol' Dick could open the federal treasury to his Halliburton and Bechtel cronies.

But what do I know being a "TOO RICH FUCKING EUROPEAN"?

[ Parent ]

exactly (none / 0) (#316)
by circletimessquare on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 11:12:24 AM EST

you're propagandized, your mind is closed

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
You bought that the pitch hook, line, and sinker. (none / 1) (#331)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 03:14:10 PM EST

IF we were talking about freedom, there would have been an entirely different set of questions, and probably a few more people willing to think about going in. We weren't though. The US was talking about treaty violations with regards to weapons which, according to the US government, existed by the ton. They've found teaspoons of biological weapons, they've found a few litres of sarin inside a shell which may or may not have existed in 1991, but not anywhere near the thousands of gallons of all sort of chemical and biological weapons which were said to have been discovered ("We know where they are."), and THAT'S what we WERE talking about at the time. Then, they decided to say "fuck the UN!". They said to saddam, "disarm!". In hindsight, it's OBVIOUS that there was NOTHING AT ALL Saddam could have done to avoid war, because he simply didn't have the weapons he was supposed to be disarming! Sure, three minutes and a bunsen burner could have gotten rid of the biological weapons they found in some scientists freezer, but that's not what the US was saying Saddam was hiding. They said he was hiding thousands of gallons of these things, and the missiles to launch them across the ocean at US. They were saying Saddam could launch an attack upon US soil with a minutes notice, and that he had to disarm those weapons of mass destruction. In fact, until about 8 hours before the bombing began, it was all about the biological and chemical weapons. Then, at the 11th hour, some PR genius realized that they could spin it as "Operation Iraqi Freedom".

I bet he got a bonus that year.

Thanks for making me write this. The "right", as they like to call themselves, have an ironic(considering what they allegedly stand for) amnesia where they forget things they've said and done if it doesn't suit them. After a couple years, it can be quite contagious, since most people, like myself, just don't care THAT much. :)

SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

As a Yank... (2.80 / 10) (#244)
by coderlemming on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 04:03:09 PM EST

...I think this advertisement was totally tasteless




and funny as hell. Go Subway ;)


--
Go be impersonally used as an organic semen collector!  (porkchop_d_clown)
Subway Sucks. (2.00 / 3) (#250)
by Fon2d2 on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 05:14:48 PM EST

Too bad I didn't read this story earlier, I could've written this comment sooner.

First off, I have to say Subway sucks ass. For years I have avoided Subway in favor of local sub shops. Here are some reasons:

1. Subway shops are slow. Subway shops always employ the laziest teenagers that care the least about their jobs. The employees seem bored off their asses. If I enter a Subway and see even two people ahead of me, I know it will take a while. I've seen other sub shops operate orders of magnitude faster.

2. Subway is not fresh. Crusty bread and slimy meat that smells funny is not my idea of fresh but it seems to happen on a regular enough basis at Subway to lead me to believe they must have a different definition of fresh than I do. Besides, who they are fooling calling their food "fresh" anyway. They're a large fast-food chain employing the same supply, storage, preparation and refrigeration techniques as any other. If you're under the impression Subway salami is somehow more fresh than McDonald's hamburger, I'd say you're deluded.

3. Subway stores are ugly. Oops, I meant to say fugly. Even worse than McDonald's. At least McDonald's is garish in a familiar comforting way. Subway is just bad.

And Subway's whole image thing of providing the healthier meal... it doesn't take much nutritional sense to see how thin that goes. You can eat healthy at Subway, but it still depends on what you order. I'd be interested to see a straight up comparison of the average sub eaten at Subway compared to the average McDonald's hamburger. Both chains mainly sell and promote their combo meals which come with hugely oversized sodas. People shouldn't be drinking pop at all. And whereas McDonald's comes with a side of fries, Subway still gives you a bag of potato chips which probably contains two full servings. And if you base your analysis on just the burger, or just the sub, you still can go wrong. A lot of people like mayo on their subs, or cheese. Well shit, the mayo just ruined it for you. Maybe the McDonald's hamburger would've been 95% lean meat. Too bad you got a mayo-slathered sub.

And as for Morgan Spurlock doing a promotional deal with Subway, that just seems like selling out to me. Spurlock's movie was good, but it didn't go very in depth. Basically I kind of considered it in conjunction with the book "Fast Food Nation", which is much much better. Sort of an attitude of "I saw the movie, now I'll read the book". The book goes so far beyond anything the movie covers. I think if Spurlock had anywhere near the same idealogy as the author of "Fast Food Nation", he'd never have let "Super Size Me" be involved with a promotional campaign for any fast food restaurant, including Subway. Maybe I'm just bitter because I liked the movie and it pains me to see it associating itself with a restaurant chain I so utterly dislike. But anyway, I digress.

Re: (none / 0) (#264)
by nexex on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 04:58:39 AM EST

well mayo ruins anything for me, but forget the chips -- their cookies are the best

[ Parent ]
Unlucky at lunch (none / 0) (#302)
by Hatamoto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 02:52:18 AM EST

Wow... you must go to the worst Subway of all time. The one I go to is clean, never slow enough for me to feel like "Wow, they're slow" and half the time I go in they're actually taking the bread they just made out of that vertical oven thing they have and the shop smells great. I've also never felt ill or had any sort of gastrointestinal distress from eating there, ever... something I can't say about McDonalds or any other fast food place.

... but I have to agree with you on the hopelessly bright and chipper yellow motif. ;)

As for weight loss by eating at subway, anyone who's tried it knows that it works so long as you don't leave your brain at the door. If you take the fattiest subs, double up the cheese and add mayo you're going to be no better off than if you had a big mac (although I'd say that the sub would fill you up more). My typical order is a club sub in a wrap with mustard (no mayo), light cheese and a collection of veges... high in fibre, pretty low in fat, filling with reasonable calorie yield (at a low glycemic index, if you're into that).

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)
[ Parent ]

Forget Subway. Arby's is where it's at. (none / 0) (#318)
by Fon2d2 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 12:44:57 PM EST

The main reason I can't get beyond my dislike of Subway is there commercials. They're so godawfully annoying. Whenever I go into a phase of dislike against a brand or product, it usually wears itself out in a certain number of months or years. But not Subway. When a locally owned and operated sub-shop is beating them balls to the walls in terms of service and food-quality, Subway's highly pretentious and obnoxious commercials aren't doing them one bit of good. There's one other fast food joint I never eat at, although it's not because of obnoxious advertising. I think I ate one meal once at a White Castle like 10 or 15 years ago and I threw up or something. Never ever going back.

You're absolutely right about the McBrick though. That's why I don't really eat at McDonald's much. Really. Ever. When I go there I get a cheeseburger and a small fry. That's it. Maybe a milk, although I don't really trust it. I'd much rather stick with the milk I got at home that I know is hormone free. Oh, and McDonald's is better than Burger King for a couple of reasons. First the fries are cut from whole pieces of potato, not reconstituted like BK's. Not that I read that from any verifiable source but you can just tell when you eat BK fries. Second, BK doesn't offer small fries. Like WTF, I gotta your big honking "medium" fries just because that's how much you decided I gotta eat?

For years the only two fast food places my brother and I really frequented were Big Mike's Sub Shop and Arby's. Arby's sells a higher quality of food. I'm not really sure how, but there food is different. Try their chicken fingers. Compare to like a DQ chicken finger basket. Absolutely no comparison. Arby's is the best. And yeah, I know it's bad, but at least I don't like to pretend like it isn't. You used to be able to eat healthy at Arby's too. You could get that roast turkey deluxe. Came on like a wheat bun I think with some vinegary type stuff instead of mayo. It was pretty damn good until they discontinued it, which kinda chaps my ass cause I mean it really did taste pretty damn good.

[ Parent ]

What Subway have you been eating at? (none / 0) (#373)
by brunes69 on Sat Sep 04, 2004 at 08:58:03 PM EST

I think you just may be unlucky in where you live since Subways around here are almost the polar opposite of what you describe.

1. Sure, they are slower at noon since they are so popular. However that is true of any fast food place. And in comparison to a mom-and-pop chain, there *is* no comparison - 6 people making a sub at Subway is *of course* faster than one loser making a mom+pop sub (that tastes half as good)

2. I know for a fact the Subways around here bake new bread and cookies over 5 times a day - that means the bread is never even older than *four hours* - how is this not fresh?!?! And they get there vegetables and meat every 2 - 3 days form local producers. You seem to have no concept of how fast these guys go through this stuff - most Subways are not large, they do not have huge freezers on the premesis like McDonald's. They just don't have the *space* to store the stuff for long periods of time.

3. I can't fight you on this point, since what is ugly is subjective. I have never had any problem with the "green and yellow" though. And the stores are always nice and clean, and smell good (fresh baked bread).

---There is no Spoon---
[ Parent ]

People's rights (2.66 / 6) (#256)
by SanSeveroPrince on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 07:37:37 PM EST

Whatever you do, however you express yourself, you're going to upset someone.
True, most of the time the someone's going to be a daft American with nothing better to do with their life, but I digress.

The Subway ad sounds like corporate thinking at its best: a daft idea taken one step beyond anything previously associated with stupidity. It is so goddamn pointless and moderately offensive to fat people that I had to go through the article twice to make sure I'd read it right.

On second read, it's not so bad a notion. We should run more of these ads, keeping feelers out for anyone who reacts negatively to them. Then we can round the morons up, and send them off to power my mud mines in Brazil.

Stereotypes are an unavoidable side effect of archetype logic, a powerful tool in itself. Relying on one for most of our daily thinking and and denying the other is a little hypocritical.

Besides, what happened to the old Liberal maxim that if you're IT you can call yourself IT without causing offense? I'm thinking of black people calling each other 'nigger', and homosexuals referring to each other as 'gay' without breaking out in lawsuits all over the place. Isn't Subways an American company? Aren't they allowed, under the cock-eyed logic that rules the world these days?

----

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think


oh no! (2.50 / 2) (#285)
by brettd on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:33:31 PM EST

It is so goddamn pointless and moderately offensive to fat people

GASP! No, we wouldn't want that!

Hey, actually, I have a great idea. If all the fast food places offended the hell out of fat people, they'd stop eating at fast food places- and then they wouldn't be as fat!

Of course, they'd also all go out of business since fat people are their top customers. Oh wait, is that a bad thing?

[ Parent ]

It's not the food (3.00 / 3) (#290)
by SanSeveroPrince on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 06:56:48 AM EST

Being fat hardly depends on what you eat. It's a lifestyle choice. You choose to be ridiculed, you choose to have reduced motory skills, you choose to not be able to find your penis, and you choose to sweat a liter per kilo, which can often be a lot.

Oh, yeah, there's also 5% of overweight people who have hormonal problems. Damn those hormones, sneaking out at night to pork down entire Tim Horton's stores, and return to the poor, suffering main body to engorge it yet again.

I'm going through a 'fat' patch. I haven't been eating more. I've just completely stopped all physical exercise at once, for a year or so. And let me tell you, losing it again is a bitch of a slow and painful process.

So, your idea wouldn't work because:

1) being constantly offended seems to be the ground state of the average obese person. Either that, or denial;

2) Offending them would only cause them to sulk even more, to stay indoors without doing any of the exercise they so desperately need, and then, when they're really depressed, guess what? Yes, they're going to run to McDonald's for consolation...

----

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think


[ Parent ]
Yeah. Right. (none / 1) (#330)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 01:42:27 PM EST

Tell me, what did you eat during this year long stretch?

I'm guessing it WASN'T a reasonable amount for what you do during the day, if you've gained as much as you say.

In spite of what we've all heard about excersize being a godsend, excersize burns negligible amounts of energy per hour. In fact, one of the biggest boons excersize gives is reduced appetite(trust me -- try eating anything more than a light snack after six hours of biking. It's not easy!). Weight is ABSOLUTELY tied to food. If you eat less than your body requries to maintain it's weight, your body will lose weight(slowly if the amount is low -- a pound of fat contains 3500 calories. To put that in perspective, an 1800-2000 calorie diet for a person is reasonably healthy. Since your body requires Weight*10 calories to maintain it's weight(more if you're younger), that means that even if you were to stop eating entirely, it would take almost two days to burn off a pound of fat before you take excersize or work into account!). If you eat more than your body requires, it will gain weight. I lost a lot of weight in 6 months. I started at 300lbs, and today I'm 165lbs, and for the majority of that(around 210lbs I took up long distance cycling, from 50-100km a day, 7 days a week), I hardly did anything all day. I sat at the computer, reading slashdot, waiting for the weight to come off, drinking lots of water(it helps with the hunger you feel as all those fat cells demand sustinence, and it has many other effects as well).

Life style choice my ass. Maybe if choosing to eat too much goddamn food is a "lifestyle choice". Quityerbitchin' and live with the consequences of your actions. When you reach the weight you want, pat yourself on the back and make plans for the future to stay that way. Until then, remember that you're not a victim, just the end result of consuming too much food. From there, there's only one way to lose it, and that's consuming less. It'll just take a little will.
SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

Please (none / 0) (#349)
by SanSeveroPrince on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 10:14:21 AM EST

If you want to be taken seriously, try not to sound like a goddamn moron when you write. Start by spelling things properly, within the limits of reason.

----

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think


[ Parent ]
Likewise. (none / 0) (#372)
by SJZero on Sat Sep 04, 2004 at 11:01:40 AM EST

If the spelling of two words and a single typo negates my point in your eyes, perhaps you should just ignore me. Perhaps you should ignore everyone. After all, they're not the great bastion of intellect you are! Ignoring that the parent post spews more ignorance about the subject through non-quantifiable anecdotal evidence "I once ate more than six fat people, but was skinny, but then I ate less than an anorexic super model and gained weight!", than most people I've encountered (Here's one for you: It takes 3600 Calories in excess of that which your body consumes to gain a pound of fat. Therefore, unless you eat 3600 Calories more than you require, you cannot gain a pound of weight), **I** suffer from a deficiency in which I cannot spell "exercise" correctly! Even worse, I'm such a fool that I spelled "sustenance" with an E! Can you imagine such a foolhardy fellow trying to claim that he knows something? Surely that negates any points I've made, regardless of their merit, theoretical soundness, or wildly successful practical application!

Go ahead, go on believing that by exercising your ass off and burning an average of a pathetic 250 Calories/hour, you can magically make up for Calorie surpluses large enough to cause you to gain substantial weight over a relatively small period of time! After all, It's not like you'd have to be eating an average of 500 extra calories a day for an entire year to gain 50 pounds or anything (oh wait...that's exactly what you'd have to do). It's not like you'd have to exercise for 2 hours at an extremely high level every single day to burn off enough calories to MAINTAIN your weight at such a calorie level, forget about LOSING weight(oh wait...). It's not like you'd also have to switch exercises every few weeks because your body eventually becomes more efficient at activities you do often, and burns far fewer calories while doing them as a result! (gee, that's three there...), after all, my fingers slipped and I put a few letters in the wrong place when typing "requires"!!!

Even though, unlike 99.9% of people who open their mouths concerning weight loss(usually either people who are fat and therefore haven't successfully applied information towards their goal, or thin people who have always been that way and therefore have always had decent habits and have never needed to learn or apply dietary information), I've managed to cut my body weight in half and fix a lifetime of bad eating habits, going from over 300 lbs to 160 lbs at last count and staying there, proving that I might just know a thing or two about this diet thing, my mistake in spelling the word "exercise", an 'e' where there should be an 'a' in the word "sustenance", and a typing mistake for the word "requires" trumps it by far.

Or maybe, in your obsessive-compulsive anal retentive nit-picking at spelling mistakes(spelling mistakes made on a casual forum, no less!), and how you manage to let three misspelled words completely trump my message derived from experience and knowledge obtained through study, you look like a greater idiot than someone who misspells a thousand words. Since you don't seem to have successfully applied information about diet, based on your own claim that you're at top of the weight roller coaster which claims most dieters who do so without the proper information, maybe you should just shut the hell up for once(being fat isn't a license to believe you know more about weight loss than anyone else, you know! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to gain weight, just an open mouth), listen to people who actually know what they're talking about for once, and perhaps, just PERHAPS, find yourself a fuller life in which you don't need to worry about weight because you have the right information to eat whatever you'd like without the threat of weight gain crippling you?


SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

More importantly, why is it so wrong? (2.00 / 2) (#328)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 01:15:16 PM EST

Why is it wrong to make fun of fat people? Except for a statistically insignificant number of people who have problems which result in weight gain even when reasonable amounts of food are eaten, fat people are fat because they overindulge in food. They're not fat because their parents were fat(except when their parents teach them lousy eating habits which results in overindulgince), they're not fat because they can't excersize as much as the next guy(excersize burns trivial numbers of calories per hour, and is far less important than diet in determining weight), they're not fat because they're poor or because they have some mythical "slow metabolism"(the human body takes almost 1800 calories a day simply to continue to exist, regardless of metabolism!), they're fat because they put too much food in front of themselves and eat it.

As a 165lb person who weighed over 300lbs in January, I can tell you this: they don't need to be pussyfooted around. Fat people are in danger, and their lives are less full because of their problems. Make fun of them! Point out their problems! So what if you think you are hurting their feelings, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Do you pussyfoot around a person who doesn't want to get a job and is about to get kicked out of their house? Do you pussyfoot around when someone is an alcoholic and is destroying their lives that way? Do you pussyfoot arounda drug addict who does terrible things for his next hit? A fat persons life is made that much emptier for the same reasons and more (trust me, a 300lb body simply won't do a lot of things a smaller one can -- even an out of shape 200 lb or 175lb body can literally run circles around the 300lb one. I took up long distance cycling on a whim!!). Without someone to make it clear that being overweight ISN'T ALRIGHT, the disgusting ideas that fat people deserve the same sympathy and tollerance as someone persecuted for their beliefs or because of their ancestry will continue, and the first world will only suffer for it.

Sorry, that's my longwinded rant about this subject. I'll try to keep them under wraps in the future. :)

SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

Several points (none / 0) (#329)
by Cro Magnon on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 01:34:32 PM EST

Genetics IS a factor! I know a whole family of large people, and it's NOT just bad habits. Yes, it's still possible to lose weight; one member of that family is smaller than the rest, and she didn't get that way by accident, but it IS harder.

Also, it's not JUST a question of how much you eat. At one point in my life, I ate more than any 3 fat people I knew, and was skinny as a rail. Currently, as an out of shape 200+ pounder, I eat a fraction of what I did back then.

Third, there's a big difference between constructive criticism and "making fun of fatty". You can point out health risks & fitness limitations without being hurtful.

Last, congrats on your weight loss!
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]

Thanks! (none / 0) (#332)
by SJZero on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 03:44:11 PM EST

The thing is, I'm supposedly predisposed towards it myself(my mother is a boat, her father was a huge boxer), and I just don't believe it. I've seen the results of eating based on science, and they're very good. So good, in fact, that I can't bring myself to believe that a person will be gigantic, or even a little big, if they eat 1700-1800 calories a day(if they're already fat, their weight loss will be logarithmic since the amount of energy they're taking in compared to the amount of weight their body requires to maintain it's mass(fat requires huge amounts of energy to maintain itself, so eating the same as a regular person when you're huge is actually like dieting, and it's actually how I started my diet) decreases, so what I'm saying is that if a reasonably sized person eats 1700-1800 calories a day they'll stay there regardless of these mythical factors which can supposedly allow a person to take in 1000 calories in a day and still gain weight).

...and ANY critisism is better than the disgusting rationalizations "you've always been big! It runs in your family! Growing 35 year olds NEED 7000 calories a day! It looks good on you! You'd look strange if you were thin!" which somehow make these things OK, like the natural order of things, like being a certain religion, or having a different colour skin. Ironically, EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNEW was there to tell me they were worried that I was losing too much weight(at 180lbs) and that they thought my health was at risk, but only ONE, my father, who literally saved my life, had to guts to tell me that I was just plain too fat, and I had to lose weight because I was risking my life for a few doritos.

SJ Zero QBXL Magazine http://www.qbxl.net/
[ Parent ]

On the subject of fast food fattys... (none / 0) (#262)
by ewe2 on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 02:09:01 AM EST

Man, I'm fungry now :)

--
I may not be cute, but I'm intelligent. So I'm an ugly smartass. Yay me.


ahh, fungrys... (none / 0) (#378)
by DavidatEeyore on Fri Sep 24, 2004 at 06:35:11 AM EST

with or without the spacial chinese sauce???

[ Parent ]
Oh, please. (2.30 / 13) (#269)
by machinder on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:47:19 AM EST

This is so typically hypocritical. You lot have spent the past four years making jokes at the expense of pretty much every other nation in the world. You mock people who won't join your wars, you imply Canadians are northern hillbillies, say the French smell, and link all Germans with Nazis. You sell "freedom fries." Like your mum probably told you, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Secondly, I've seen the ad that bears an "uncanny resemblance" to the 9/11 terrorist attacks (since when did this become Terror Attacks(tm)?) It bears far more resemblance to a circa-1950s monster film attack than that, which is hinted at by the rest of the ad.

There is no question that the attacks of 2001 were a tragedy and an attrocity, but try and have some awareness that there was a world before that, and sometimes people may be making reference to it.

Besides, what: aren't you lot fat?

s/fett/dick/g (1.00 / 7) (#272)
by Gothmolly on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:42:14 AM EST

Dude, your German sucks. And this story is like, weeks old. -1, Dump it!

No (2.50 / 4) (#275)
by eejit on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 12:39:36 PM EST

Correcting Germans on their use of their own language makes you look like a fool.
It was a German advertising company that wrote the advert, not me.

[ Parent ]
Obesity stats to compare (3.00 / 4) (#278)
by coljac on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 04:39:09 PM EST

This article from the BBC has a breakdown of obesity statistics by country. The Germans are definitely among the fattest of Europe, but German girls definitely have the edge on their American counterparts. My next trip to Europe will for certain include Italy, but check out the Russians - Jesus that is strange!



---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey

Wrong! (none / 0) (#313)
by SlashDread on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:50:20 AM EST

In Italy, you think they ask "Mama" what she weighs?

You should go to The Netherlands... for several reasons actually.

"/Dread"

[ Parent ]

404 - here is the data (none / 0) (#374)
by coljac on Mon Sep 06, 2004 at 01:21:30 PM EST

Below are the percentage of men and women who are obese in different European countries (source: IOTF. These figures are a guide only as data is constantly updated).

Country    % Men    % Women   
Finland    19    19   
Russia    10.8    27.9   
England    17    20   
Germany    17.2    19.3   
Czech Republic    16.3    20.2   
Scotland    15.9    17.3   
Belgium    12.1    18.4   
Spain    11.5    15.2   
Sweden    10    11.9   
France    9.6    10.5   
Denmark    10    9   
Netherlands    8.4    8.3   
Italy    6.5    6.3   
USA    19.5    25   
Australia    18    18


---
Whether or not life is discovered there I think Jupiter should be declared an enemy planet. - Jack Handey
[ Parent ]

Humor? (2.90 / 11) (#292)
by dazk on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 10:15:48 AM EST

My god, what is it with some americans.

When I first saw the advertisment, I couldn't resist smiling a little. Subway, just another fastfood chain and especially an american chain, making fun of the beating of Mc Donalds. That was just too hilarious too take seriously. I mean come on, who really believes that a one month diet consisting of footlong Subway sandwitches with Coke and Crisps or Cookies for desert will not let you gain weight and make you sick?

But hearing now about people in the US taking this advertisment seriously and being offended really surprises me. I guess as soon as it comes to national symbols and national pride, humour is an unknown for some poeple.

People make fun of Germans all the time, depicting them as Lederhosen wearing drunk idiots. So what? Doesn't bother me at all. Isn't it ok to let them have their fun? On my last visit to the US I've seen this image in advertising for quite a few things supposedly german. Did you ever hear of a German politician complaining about it? I haven't.
----- Copy kills music! Naaah! Greedyness kills Brain! Counter: Bought 17CDs this year because I found tracks of an album on fileshare and wanted it all.

Of tourism and perception (2.50 / 2) (#306)
by Hatamoto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 04:04:11 AM EST

I just came back from a vacation to Toronto. A week long getaway just to kill some time, get away from work, take in a couple shows, visit some friends and so forth.

While I was there, the distribution of thin, overweight and obese people depended largely on where I happened to be in the city. In the burbs by the airport where my hotel was, people were largely thin or in reasonable shape, with only the occasional morbidly obese person and those people tended to be old, or appeared to be disabled in some fashion.

But when I tripped down to Yonge and Bloor, the CN tower, or any of the typical tourist traps there was a much higher concentration of fat people, and much fatTER people. People who would appear to have no other infirmity other than weight related issues, spreading the entire gamut of age and race , with the exception of asians where anything more than 'pudgy' was still a rarity. Ask most anyone on the street or who works in a cafe or bistro downtown in TO, and they'll tell you where all those fatties are mostly coming from.

I've also taken trips to various parts of the US, the latest being LA. The distribution of weight I saw there wasn't totally out of line with what I saw in non-touristy parts of Toronto, or those of Seattle, or non-touristy parts of my own city.

Seems that the people travelling then are the ones which lend weight (heh!) to the stereotypes. Perhaps the majority people who travel out of the US are richer and therefore fatter than the norm. Perhaps the hedonism inherent to those who have a deep love of food carries over to a love of adventure in general which would yield more travellers.

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)

naw (none / 1) (#312)
by the77x42 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:05:05 AM EST

there is a correlation between wealth and fitness (the wealthier the fitter in most cases). most likely the decpetion comes from the fact that most american tourists are old (at least here in BC most are probably over 50). old people are not that fit.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

[ Parent ]
Hmmm... (none / 1) (#315)
by Hatamoto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 11:07:42 AM EST

Yeah, being rich at the very least means you have many more options to be fit (not being chained to a 9-to-6, ability to buy more expensive healthier foods at the grocery and the time to prepare them at home, etc).

There was plenty of young people I saw in TO tho, so perhaps its a regional thing... I've been told that west coasters are a bit thinner in general. My observations are highly non-scientific so for all I know fat people in the US like toronto because they think it's vanilla-scented and it smells like pie, or something. ;)

--
"Innocence is no defense." - Federal District Judge William H. Yohn (People v. Mumia Abu-Jamal)
[ Parent ]

or middle class (3.00 / 4) (#320)
by needless on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 01:02:30 PM EST

The "wealthy" also tend to avoid tourist spots, while the middle class adores them. If you non-USians think our middle class are fat, you should come visit and check out our "poor" people. You are definitely right about the those with more money tend to be more in shape. A big problem in the US is that it actually costs more to eat right. Buying fresh vegetables and lean meats is much more expensive than buying a bag of chips (either definition will do) and some frozen hamburgers. This is especially true in the less urbanized areas, where there may only be one true grocery with a produce section, but there are anywhere from five to fifteen convenience stores full of junk food.

[ Parent ]
Bush: Bred in Circus... N/T (none / 0) (#307)
by brain in a jar on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 04:05:53 AM EST


Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.

Subway is an eatery? (3.00 / 3) (#311)
by megid on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:49:02 AM EST

Dammit, they made their goal. I now know Subway eateries exist. Until one minute ago, Subway was just a transportation method (and a local zine, but that doesnt count).

--
"think first, write second, speak third."
Subway food (none / 0) (#364)
by ewan on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 04:32:58 PM EST

Yup, they do very nice sandwiches and stuff like that, salads, etc.

They also open late at night (my local one is open until 2am at least) to catch the clubbers on the way home, which is when I normally eat there :)

[ Parent ]

what exactly are your national symbols? (2.40 / 5) (#314)
by xutopia on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 10:16:59 AM EST

"Americans deserve to know about Subway's campaign to insult us abroad and to attack our national symbols." Just what are your national symbols, being fat or eating French fries and hamburgers? I don't get it.

Oh maybe he means the Statue of Liberty given as a present to you by the French.

Plagiarism is acceptable on k5 now? (none / 1) (#327)
by Legion303 on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 12:17:54 AM EST

Just checking, since only the very first part and the last sentence or two weren't ripped straight from snopes.com.

-steve

No one will read this, but free speech this is. (3.00 / 4) (#344)
by Russell Dovey on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 02:31:10 AM EST

Subway itself made the decision to withdraw the ad. That's free speech, right there! People yelling "Take away this heinous ad!" is also free speech.

So it's actually not so bad, is it?

  1. Subway freely speaks its ad.
  2. Monkeys and no-neck rednecks like Tom Delay, a man so syphilitic he doesn't know the difference between F911 and Super Size Me, complain about said ad.
  3. Subway withdraws it of their own free will.
Go free speech!

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

Why are gay men so diseased? (1.25 / 4) (#350)
by sonovel on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 10:18:59 AM EST

Isn't that the same question?

Look at the similarities.

A particular group has a higher likelyhood of a serious medical condition. This condition is much more likely if one chooses certain dangerous behaviors. The condition can be avoided in something like 95% of cases if behavior is modified. And the problem is a global one that is an issue for many more people than just the particular group.

So if you think it makes sense to pillory Americans for being fat, are you willing to do the same to gay men for having AIDS?

Of course, one can't choose to stop eating totally, but one can choose to be celibate. But that means it is even worse to ridicule US citizens for being fat than it would be to revile gay men for having AIDS.

Could there possibly be some sort of double standard against US citizens? Nah, of course not. This place is at least as "fair and balanced" as any.

Don't be stupid (none / 0) (#358)
by Nursie on Fri Aug 27, 2004 at 10:33:16 AM EST

Over-eating is something that can be stopped. AIDS is not. Weight can be lost if you decide to do something about it. AIDS cannot.

Also, you might want to break out of the mindset that only gay men get aids. Lots of straights do too. I don't even think it's more likely amongst gay men any more.

Meta Sigs suck.

[ Parent ]
Almost all ... (none / 0) (#360)
by sonovel on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 12:50:28 AM EST

Almost all cases of AIDS are preventable by altering behavior as are almost all cases of obesity. Not all, just the large majority. Do you really disagree?

And I didn't say only gay men get AIDS, in fact, I said the only that AIDS is more common amoung gay men than other populations.

So you either can't read or you are using a strawman argument.

And I'd like to see evidence that the incidence of AIDS is higher in any other population than in gay men.

[ Parent ]

AIDS parochialism (none / 0) (#365)
by GenerationY on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 07:17:57 PM EST

Statistics

More than 70% of all HIV/AIDS sufferers in the world are in Africa. In, for example, Botswana more than a third of all adults have the disease.

There are more children under the age of 15 with AIDS in Africa than there are American men with AIDS.

So no, I don't think gay men (or women for that matter) have the highest prevalence of HIV/AIDS.

[ Parent ]

Oh and ... (none / 0) (#362)
by sonovel on Sat Aug 28, 2004 at 01:08:18 AM EST

I think you may have missed the point.

I am arguing that a high risk group for a serious medical condition doesn't deserve derision even if the condition can be mostly prevented by a change in behavior.

You clearly believe that to be the case for AIDS and gay men. Are you really arguing the opposite for obesity and US citizens? Or did you miss my point entirely?

[ Parent ]

No I got your point (none / 0) (#369)
by Nursie on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 06:22:59 AM EST

I just don't agree with it.

I pointed out that things are different in the two cases.

I'm not sure that fat americans deserve derision, but my point is that even when they have become morbidly obese there is something they can do about it. Sure, prevention is the best medicine in both cases. But the AIDS sufferer is condemned. The Fat man can start to eat less.

Meta Sigs suck.

[ Parent ]
So ... (none / 0) (#370)
by sonovel on Wed Sep 01, 2004 at 10:37:08 AM EST

By your logic, if there was a cure for AIDS, then we could make fun of gay men for getting it. Even if the "cure" was so difficult as to be beyond the reach of most gay men.

Still seems a bit strange to me.

[ Parent ]

People laugh at people with crabs (none / 0) (#371)
by Nursie on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 10:41:43 AM EST

But seriously, leave the "Gay Men" angle alone, it's way old and no longer associated solely or even mostly with the gay community.

If aids became curable in such a way as to trivialise it then perhaps it would become laughable. But probably not because of all the deaths involved in it. I don't consider losing some weight to be beyond someone that is causing themselves health problems through obesity, because they can control their gluttony through willpower. If stopping having aids once you'd caught it simply required people to stop having frivolous sex then we could equally laugh at them.

Meta Sigs suck.

[ Parent ]
And ... (none / 0) (#375)
by sonovel on Tue Sep 07, 2004 at 10:01:59 AM EST

And fatness is not just associated with Americans. Most fat people are not US citizens. The parallel still holds.

You seem to agree with my premises, and you find no fault in my logic, but you keep disagreeing with the simple conclusions.

Odd that.


[ Parent ]

"Most fat people are not US citizens" (none / 0) (#376)
by pieroxy on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 03:45:44 AM EST

This is only true because most people are not US citizens. It's one of the worst arguments out there. You can serve it for anything: "Most english speaking people are not US citizens". Yet, most americans do.

[ Parent ]
When it comes down to it (none / 1) (#377)
by Nursie on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 03:01:18 PM EST

AIDS sufferers have got a fucking deadly pathogen (no pun intended) usually from someone who has lied about having it or is unaware that they are infected. It's not always the slut or the 'player' that gets it, it may be someone that makes a single bad choice, or is infected by an adulterous or licentious partner.

Fat people have just stuffed their faces each and every day. Every one of them, with very few exceptions, is responsible for their own condition (as am I, I am a little on the porky side these days and I know it's because I eat too much pizza and other junk.)

That is why there is a difference.

Meta Sigs suck.

[ Parent ]
tough luck (none / 0) (#366)
by grahl11 on Sun Aug 29, 2004 at 11:30:50 PM EST

US citizen are the most obese in the world, statistically speaking. this is not because of something they have no influence on, like being gay or have aids or wtf, but an everyday decision to either eat right or not. my girlfriend saw the ad, she told me about it, we had a quick laugh, done. it is not like subway is the first with agressive and/or deluding advertising, just that finally someone pissed on your collective pants and not just the competition. wow, big change, either take it or be 'fair and balanced' in general!

[ Parent ]
There are millions of people suffering from aids (none / 0) (#368)
by sweeties68 on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 07:43:30 PM EST

in Africa and they are not all gay.


If you have to hide it and password protect it then your doin something wrong.
[ Parent ]
Subway Sandwiches: "Warum sind die Amis so fett?" | 379 comments (356 topical, 23 editorial, 0 hidden)
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