Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
A Non-Loser's Guide to The Insane Clown Posse

By Psycho Dave in Culture
Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:59:25 PM EST
Tags: Music (all tags)
Music

Friday afternoon, as I was walking into the 7-11 across the street from the Ogden theater on Colfax, I was witness to an odd sight; a huge crowd of "juggalos" (aka: fans of the Insane Clown Posse who like to paint their faces like "wicked clowns" whatever the fuck that means) gathered around Independent Records chanting "When I say dawg, you say 'woof, woof'!" after which they started chanting "Dawg!" "Woof! Woof!" and so on and so forth.

After purchasing a pack of Camels and a jalapeno cheese taquito, I shook my head, and walked back to my apartment depressed. I know this is Denver and we're about twenty years behind the trends, but I still wondered "Why is the Insane Clown Posse still considered cool here?"


Over the years, I have actually picked up a frightening amount of knowledge about the Insane Clown Posse. This was because the only person who dealt weed (albeit, shitty weed) in my suburb was one of those "juggalos" and would make me listen to their music before I could re-up.

About this cat; I think he's probably indicative of many juggalos I've met over the years. He, like many, didn't graduate from high school. Having no musical skills, he still considered himself as starting out on his rap career with rhymes like:

"Society likes to fuck with me/cuz I dropped out of school, dawg/and I still ain't got my GED"

Plus, not even a white rapper of the stature of Eminem dares to rhyme "nigger" with "trigger". He did, and wondered why black people didn't like him even though he was "down."

Lazy, irresponsible, and dealing dope out of his parents basement (not that I was one to talk at the time) the guy couldn't keep a job washing dishes at Denny's for a week. Any money he did get went to Violent J action figures, baggy pants from Hot Topic, and Mickey's malt liquor.

He had a pretty cute, really nice girlfriend who I worked with (this is primarily how I knew him.) He dumped her the second she got pregnant, then went out and dropped two hundred dollars at a titty bar the next night. I know, I was with him. This was the first titty bar he had ever been in and he actually believed that the strippers *really* thought he was cool (hint: any guy slanging cash like he was is cool in a titty bar.) He was rapturous that a stripper asked him for his phone number after he asked her if she wanted to see ICP at Red Rocks the next weekend. To this day, I don't believe that guy has ever paid any child support for his daughter.

I quickly lost touch with this fellow, finding a hook-up with much better weed and better taste in music. Still, this exposure to ICP was circa 1998; the Dark Ages of Popular Music. Britney Spears was taken seriously; N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys ruled the charts; Fred Durst was considered a "sex symbol". Seven years later, now that Britney is pretty much just redneck tabloid fodder and the last relevant thing Durst has done was get his balls and ass touched in a stolen sex video, what accounts for the enduring popularity of the Insane Clown Posse?

Admittedly, some of ICP's songs are pretty funny. Actually, some of them are REALLY funny in an extremely low-brow sense of the term. But they have not cultivated a legion of adoring juggalos by being a couple of hip-hop Weird Als. I think it has to do with the fact that they cultivate their own weird sort of vocabulary in their albums. Like, "neden" is the word they use for "pussy". "Cotton candy" their term for pubic hair. Plus, they have this obsession with Faygo, or at least spraying it on each other, that makes most of their fans consider it to be like holy water.

They have also tried to create a sort of mythology around them. See, supposedly, there are six "joker's cards" (what they call their albums) beginning with "Carnival of Carnage", and that after the last joker's card, they and all their fans will ascend to Shangri-La on a clown spaceship.

And while we all wished that after their sixth album appeared (well, seventh; they released it in two parts to milk more money out of their fans) every juggalo would drink some cyanide laced Faygo, this is when ICP pulled their best joke. They were actually trying to lead their flock to God so they could get into Heaven.

Despite trying to bring millions of pre-pubescent boys to Jesus, they still retained much of their popularity for some reason. Now, any group that is marginally connected with ICP gets legions of juggalos doing retarded chants on sidewalks. Perhaps the only useful function of the continued existence of juggalos is that they make goths suddenly seem cool.

Christ, I feel dirty even writing this story...

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Also by Psycho Dave


Display: Sort:
A Non-Loser's Guide to The Insane Clown Posse | 156 comments (127 topical, 29 editorial, 0 hidden)
While I sympathize (none / 1) (#3)
by porkchop_d_clown on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 07:08:13 AM EST

this is still a diary entry.

How many trolls could a true troll troll if a true troll could troll trolls?
Clown-related bias? <nt> (3.00 / 5) (#6)
by GenerationY on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:48:39 AM EST



[ Parent ]
pretty much. <nt> (none / 0) (#14)
by porkchop_d_clown on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 04:58:35 PM EST



How many trolls could a true troll troll if a true troll could troll trolls?
[ Parent ]
u hav no idea (none / 0) (#150)
by Juggalocoro on Thu Oct 13, 2005 at 10:41:56 PM EST

first of all u should get ur shit together i am a juggalo and i have a fuckin degree in engineering so fuck u ur a fucken shovanist pig. first of all the joker cards are the bible maybe if u read it ud know and realize that they r sublimible messages. and i am malado so white trash kiss my ass. the clowns r lucky to have juggalos not hound doggin their ass for shit like u main streeet bitches. k now i calm down n see where u come from with your steriotypical juggalo as i feel like beratin ur hater ass. now read some of tha shit j has wrote n ull see how intelligent he is and i dont know many dumb ass's that can make their own record label, the second most popular wrestling project, and who hav a platinum album and a another five gold. now that juffahoe sayin tha biggot shit is not a juggalo he is a juffahoe if he was down he'd know not to be racist. so if ya see him whip smack em. and j didnt try n bring us to heaven he was showin the way to believe in god. alright im a smart guy and i know everyone dont like icp so i dont ask u to like them but listen to track 17 on shangri-la and you will see what i mean when they say "the carnival is god" so u dont have to like icp but kno this shit is all we got and it fuels us so i dare ne of u guys who have balls go to a gatherin n say that icp sucks were not angry haters were just paaionate and btw what r u some kind of wrist slicein emo bitch

[ Parent ]
+1 FP Pure Fucking Genius (2.50 / 6) (#4)
by thelizman on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 08:28:23 AM EST

This is the kind of diary which actually deserves to make it to the front page.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
IAWTP. (none / 0) (#91)
by mcgrew on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:54:19 PM EST


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

ICP (2.70 / 10) (#7)
by Nosf3ratu on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 10:04:23 AM EST

ICP is for dirty white trash kids at the county fair.


Woo!
But at least they're honest about it. (2.80 / 5) (#30)
by waxmop on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 09:41:51 AM EST

Sure, their music is moronic, but it's nice to see people embracing their low-rent lifestyle rather than bragging about how better off they are than their fans.
--
fuck meatspace man I gotta level my dwarf cleric lonelyhobo
[ Parent ]
SUCKAZ (1.00 / 6) (#56)
by Juggalo on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:11:30 PM EST

YO EMO FAG...YOU CAN LICK MY SMELLY WHITE TRASH BUTTHOLE!!!!

JUGGALOS REPRESENT!!!!

[ Parent ]

In that case... (none / 0) (#90)
by mcgrew on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:53:53 PM EST

they can't be all bad.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Tribalism (2.66 / 3) (#8)
by Kenneth Burke on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 10:50:16 AM EST

is so friggin boring.

stoner (2.50 / 4) (#9)
by Norkakn on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 11:06:43 AM EST

when I read "jalapeno cheese taquito" I imediately thought that you were a stoner.

Mmmmmm jalapeno cheese taquitos... (none / 1) (#89)
by mcgrew on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:53:23 PM EST

But La Bamba's burritos are from heaven itself. If you ever visit Springfield (I hear they're putting one in Chicago too) get one.

Unless you weigh over 500 lbs, do NOT get a large. It will feed a family of eight Somalis for a month. I usually get their "mini" burrito, which is only 5 times as bg as a McDonald's "burrito."

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Not just in Springfield! (none / 0) (#97)
by coopex on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 01:34:37 AM EST

Here in the lovely city of Champaign there's one right off of 6th and Green, and they've got locations in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio and Wisconsin. http://www.labambaburritos.com/locations.asp Another great place that has pretty much the same food as La Bamba is Taco Burrity King, right off Halsted on Jackson I think - it's on the same corner as Mr. Greeks.

[ Parent ]
I LOVE La Bamba's (none / 0) (#105)
by MicroBerto on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:33:00 AM EST

Here at the Ohio State University, we have a La Bamba's here on High Street. We also have a Chipotle and Moe's Southwestern burritos (these are the worst of the bunch).

When Chipotle came to town, I was worried that my beloved La Bamba's would go out of business - not at all the case though, there is quite a La Bamba following.

I love to get the large, pork/steak combo burrito with everything, rice, jalepenos, and sour cream. The Mexicans working there are being investigated as the best random number generators in nature, as they always give me a different price for this same item (anywhere from 4.50 to 5.50).

My friends love the super nachos - their cheese is phenomenal and you can get basically anything on them.

Their hot sauces aren't hot but have great flavor too. I ususally add my Cajohn's habanero sauces to the La Bamba sauce for some flavor.

And yes, I have absolutely no problem downing a SUPER burrito. They're enormous, but when you've had a hard swimming or weightlifting workout, they hit the spot.

Berto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Bertoline - My comic strip
[ Parent ]

what mcdonald's do you go to... (none / 0) (#113)
by suntzu on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 06:30:33 PM EST

that has burritos?

[ Parent ]
It's all about... (none / 0) (#114)
by Psycho Dave on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:25:33 PM EST

El Taco De Mexico and Tacos Jalisco. And if you want a little cheaper and don't mind ordering in Spanish, the Panderia de Abeja is great too. It follows perfectly with my theory that the less English and less immaculately clean the restaurant is, the better the food tastes.

Pardon my predjudice, but I believe there is no great Mexican food east of the Mississippi and no great Italian food west of it.

[ Parent ]

Their "success" is (3.00 / 3) (#13)
by Dont Fear The Reaper on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 03:03:47 PM EST

probably a matter of understanding their niche.

Not that I know jack shit about the ICP, except that Something Awful likes to make fun of them from time to time.

They're for real? (3.00 / 2) (#22)
by shinnin on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:53:53 AM EST

The hate mail from "Juggalos" on somewhatawful is especially amusing.

This article - apart from lacking some background info on ICP - is pretty good and a somewhat sobering read for me, as I had assumed that ICP were to 90% probably a fictive group invented by somethingawful. It's hard to believe they're for real.

I always thought the Juggalo's hatemail was satire, too. I live in fear.

[ Parent ]

They are all too real. (2.66 / 3) (#23)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:03:22 AM EST

I've known of the Juggalos long before they were on Something Awful's radar. That's because it took them a few years to learn Frontpage and discover Geocities, so they lacked even a rudimentary web presence.

In my cowtown, kids get Insane Clown Posse tattoos. Shit, not just kids. I know thirty year old guys who are ICP freaks and will camp outside any place where one of their pubic hairs may be making an appearance.

[ Parent ]

Stare into the abyss... (3.00 / 2) (#25)
by shinnin on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:44:57 AM EST

Thanks for your reply, PsychoDave. For those who wish to laugh (or cry), here are the flames from somethingawful's review of an ICP CD.

I already have a hard time understanding the appeal of masquerading metal acts, from KISS through GWAR to Slipknot ... but I can understand how they might all be construed as having emitted some kind of coolness. ICP just don't click. Admitting to being a fan of a bunch of clowns and painting your face like this is not going to earn you complete juvenile social ostrication? Is he a juggalo, too? I just don't understand how this all translates to street-cred (or maybe playschool-cred). Maybe I'm too old, have lost touch with the youth of today, and I just don't get it?

That aside, there are a couple of things mentioned in your article I'd seriously like to ask. They bring kids to Jesus? Do you mean they are a christian band? Like Stryper?

And what's this Faygo stuff?

What do they rap about, and what do they sound like?

[ Parent ]

Faygo is a brand of soda. (3.00 / 3) (#26)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:26:57 AM EST

They describe it as a sort of "ghetto cola" because it's cheap (though I saw it in bottles in a sandwich shop once and it looked to be more like a boutique Coca Cola) which juggalos like to spray on each other. If you suddenly decide to go Jane Goodall and observe juggalos in their natural habitat, you will end up covered in the stuff.

The most redeemable aspect of ICP is actually their music. Lyrically, they blow away any rhyme done by Limp Bizkit (not difficult since Durst thinks he's tough because he's seen Fight Club 38 times) and you won't catch them doing duets with Sheryl Crow, like Kid Rock. In terms of whiteboy rap, they are lesser talents to say Eminem (a rant or a rave, depending on your opinion of Eminem.) They are thrice as juvenile as Marshall, but only half as pretentious.

They admirably and often condemn racism, albeit by suggesting juggalos go down to south and shoot every redneck they see (the subject of their song "Chickin' Huntin'") They also condemn greed ("Piggy Pie") and eschew the rampant "bling bling" materialism of most popular rap.

That said, their music is often inaccesible to those who are not of the juggalo persuasion. It is constantly peppered with references that only the weak chinned guy working the counter at Conoco would understand. They are also rampantly homophobic, and contain enough sexism to make Fiddy Cent look like a feminist. The fanaticism of juggalos is also a major turn off, as they all seem obsessed with action figures and pro-wrestling.

Overall, if you were REALLY stoned (like I was when I gained this knowledge of juggalo culture) the music of Insane Clown Posse is good for an immature laugh and then a trip to the used CD store to trade them in for something you can listen to with other people in the room.

Now, I'm gonna throw on some Charles Mingus, Thelonius Monk, Charlie Parker, and Ella Fitzgerald and forget that I know so much about the Insane Clown Posse.

[ Parent ]

Thanks... (none / 0) (#28)
by shinnin on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:35:39 AM EST

.. for expounding, will join you in the latter.

[ Parent ]
+1 FP (none / 1) (#16)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 06:36:35 PM EST

for any writer who writes about drugs in a positive way and has the balls to write about recent past with nostalgia-riddled platitudes.

No, really, that was some good shit.

--
"What's next, sigging a k5er quote about sigging someone on k5?"


I always think they're... (2.00 / 2) (#24)
by the sixth replicant on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:26:28 AM EST

...just a version of T.I.S.M but trying to be cool instead of trying to be left of Devo.

ciao

Damn straight (none / 0) (#68)
by Donatus on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 05:01:07 AM EST



[ Parent ]
For the record, Eminem's stature (1.60 / 5) (#34)
by Anonymous Howards End on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:07:34 PM EST

is about 5' 5", which explains a lot.
--
CodeWright, you are one cowardly hypocritical motherfucker.
Another thing about him (3.00 / 2) (#35)
by Norkakn on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:11:06 PM EST

I have partied on 8 mile. As D goes, it's a pretty decent neighborhood.

[ Parent ]
I worked on 8 mile [nt] (none / 0) (#39)
by CodeWright on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 02:59:24 PM EST



--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
I built 8 mile (none / 1) (#73)
by TheGreenLantern on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 09:56:57 AM EST



It hurts when I pee.
[ Parent ]
You bastard (none / 0) (#75)
by CodeWright on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 10:59:40 AM EST

Construction traffic there SUCKED and never actually fixed the potholes which were large enough to swallow compact cars without a trace.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
Gah (none / 0) (#85)
by Norkakn on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 05:57:26 PM EST

I second this.  If I needed another reason not to go to Detroit, the roads are it.  I do want to wander around some more abandoned buildings though

[ Parent ]
FEMINEM SUCKS MAH BALLZ (1.00 / 6) (#57)
by Juggalo on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:14:02 PM EST

MARSHA MATHERS IS 5'5 CUZ YOU CANT STACK SHIT ANY HIGHER THEN THAT.  FUCK FEMINEM...ICP RULEZ!!!!!

JUGGALO OUT!!!

[ Parent ]

Hah! More like... (1.50 / 2) (#71)
by Harvey Anderson on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:46:57 AM EST

He's intelligent, rich and gets a lot more pussy than you do and you hate that.

[ Parent ]
Why do you taunt me? (1.00 / 3) (#84)
by Anonymous Howards End on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 04:56:28 PM EST

Is it because I is black?
--
CodeWright, you are one cowardly hypocritical motherfucker.
[ Parent ]
because you are gay (1.00 / 3) (#103)
by Harvey Anderson on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 08:44:20 AM EST

n/t

[ Parent ]
Gay niggers of K5 REPRESENT (1.50 / 2) (#134)
by Anonymous Howards End on Mon Apr 11, 2005 at 08:49:13 AM EST


--
CodeWright, you are one cowardly hypocritical motherfucker.
[ Parent ]
So because he's shorter than you... (none / 1) (#109)
by splitpeasoup on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 01:29:00 PM EST

...makes him a bad person?

My stature is 5'4".

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
[ Parent ]

What's that? (2.00 / 2) (#136)
by Anonymous Howards End on Tue Apr 12, 2005 at 01:28:32 PM EST

You'll need to shout; I can't hear you from up here.
--
CodeWright, you are one cowardly hypocritical motherfucker.
[ Parent ]
ICP's popularity (2.85 / 7) (#40)
by sophacles on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:22:17 PM EST

ICP is popular for pretty much one reason.  They appeal to rage.  The juggalos you describe are all at the bottom of society, and have no-where to go. Really. The dropout with no GED has a lot of anger; songs like Fuck the World appeal to this. (If I only could I'd set the world on fire/saying fuck the world.)

I too have a lot of experience in the Juggalo world.  This experience is roughly the same as yours, to the point of thinking, for a minute, that we knew the same people.  I've noticed that te the Juggalo crowd is drawn from the same set of people who wear black jeans an mettalica, megadeath or slayer t-shirts and have 80s rocker hair.

Is it any wonder that music with loud noisy background and shouted, angry lyrics appeals to those with much unspecified rage?

Some clarification (none / 0) (#121)
by zerocommazero on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 04:27:09 PM EST

"I've noticed that the Juggalo crowd is drawn from the same set of people who wear black jeans an mettalica, megadeath or slayer t-shirts and have 80s rocker hair." I see you need some clarification since you misspelled Metallica AND Megadeth (definite poser signal!) and obviously are making a blanket statement. This "juggalo" crowd seems to deviate from the fringe rap-metal crowd that developed during the fall of mainstream metal by hair-bands and the beginnings of the grunge period. The days of Headbangers Ball and finding metal band shirts and magazines in stores at your typical mall came to an end at this time too. Thrash metal was becoming stale. It looked like the end of metal, at least in the public eye. Major labels who were just starting to pick up more thrash bands and even death metal bands (Morbid Angel, Carcass, etc.) suddenly changed their tastes and started grabbing up the Seattle Grunge scene. During this period, many true metalhead musicians (those not cutting albums to be in the Billboards) were developing sub-genres of metal. Types like: death, black, doom, grindcore. Then there were mixed genres of metal and other types of music: hardcore, rap-metal, industrial, emo, etc. I actually blame Anthrax/Public Enemy for the rap-metal stuff. It looked like they were trying to change the face of metal at this time with limited success by playing off the rise of popularity in rap, fighting off the staleness of thrash and the impending bubble burst of hair metal.
"I have a few truths for the men in this audience. It's your fault for all the violence in this country and it's your fault for all the crime in this country."-Peter Griffin at the Million Man March
[ Parent ]
sort of a non-starter. (2.88 / 9) (#41)
by the ghost of rmg on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:25:05 PM EST

why would a "non-loser" need a guide to insane clown posse?


rmg: comments better than yours.
we've been on the same wavelength lately (2.50 / 2) (#45)
by circletimessquare on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 06:43:52 PM EST

the word "non-loser" and the phrase "insane clown posse" cannot possibly be used in the same sentence


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
indeed. (none / 0) (#47)
by the ghost of rmg on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 06:59:47 PM EST

what we need is a HARD HITTING account of this perspective.


rmg: comments better than yours.
[ Parent ]
absolutely (none / 0) (#78)
by codejack on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:44:17 PM EST

Only a loser would need a guide, the rest of us know all about ICP.


Please read before posting.

[ Parent ]
i feel ya, (none / 0) (#82)
by the ghost of rmg on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:30:09 PM EST

like, i've been down with icp since middle school, fool.


rmg: comments better than yours.
[ Parent ]
Actually they have like 16 albums (3.00 / 2) (#42)
by 123456789 on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:19:14 PM EST

... which is kind of an impressive body of work. I'm not making any claims as to the artistic merit of the work, or even of their merit as human beings, I'm just saying... there's a lot of artists that would love to have 16 albums under their belt...

---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
Artistic merit? It is to laugh. (1.60 / 5) (#59)
by Kasreyn on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 11:36:28 PM EST

The only artistic merit universally recognized in the rap "genre" is sales. Period.

And don't give me any shit about BET and the Grammies and shit like that. All a rap artist has to do is mention how they sold more than another rapper, and everyone nodding along will see this as proof of the pudding.

ICP, I need not add, are extremely financially successful. Q.E.D. they are excellent rappers.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
um (none / 1) (#62)
by WetherMan on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:43:14 AM EST

this is a pretty terrible comment kasreyn, it not only demonstrates that you have no idea what rap, or hip-hop is, but it also says to the world that you have fundamentally flawed ideas behind what makes good hip-hop.

not many black friends you ride with?  I do, and some of the stuff I hear is great, although it's not my preferred genre, I can still pick out talent when I see it.
---
fluorescent lights make me look like old hot dogs
[ Parent ]

Bullshit (none / 1) (#88)
by mcgrew on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:52:27 PM EST

90% of rap is bought by white teens and twentysomethings. Rap died as an art form the first time it got played on the radio.

Rappers in the late 70s when it started actually played real instruments, and were actually creating something unique. Unique it no longer is; it is all trite, done to death, and commercial.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

ok mcgrew (none / 1) (#102)
by WetherMan on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 07:11:25 AM EST

so i'm originally from chicago, and I know your in springfield, so I understand if you have a slightly skewed viewpoint on this... I'm living in Atlanta at the moment, and I can most assuredly say that you have no idea what your talking about.
---
fluorescent lights make me look like old hot dogs
[ Parent ]
uh .... (none / 0) (#76)
by aphrael on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 12:07:40 PM EST

perhaps i'm being trolled, but you're confusing different parts of the hip-hop world, I think. People like common and krs-1 get an enormous amount of respect for their quality, sales notwithstanding.

[ Parent ]
For you, aph, I will reply (none / 0) (#107)
by Kasreyn on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:33:53 PM EST

And I'm only about 40% trolling on this.

For one thing, I'm talking about rap, not hip-hop. Hip-hop as a genre is so poorly defined I've never been able to figure out what the hell it is. Rap, however, is clearly enough defined that I feel justified in talking about it.

As to rap, who are common and krs-1? Never heard them. My point? If you're not a big seller, you're nobody in the rap world. This is not my POV, this is the POV of every rap fan I have ever met or seen. Radio stations that feature rap play the most popular track of the moment ten times an hour, and rap fans seem to be more utterly enamored of merchandising (clothes, sunglasses, sneakers) than any other fans I've ever seen. Naturally, pointing out the fact that most of them are black means I am therefore a member of the KKK.

My point is that I've never been exposed to the "hip-hop world", and very few are. Most just hear the latest bit by Lil John or Usher on the radio, ten times an hour. The point has been made that rock and indeed all pop music is a sellout. If that is so, I would like to propose the corollary that pop rap is the most complete and enthusiastic sellout of the lot.

And I get a little sick of pretentious, politically correct kiddies calling me racist when I dump on rap. Which is one reason I troll a bit on this subject. I enjoy rap a great deal. My tastes range from Dr. Dre to Busta Rhymes to, yes, ICP. I don't consider it music, though. To be music you need more than just rhythm, and lyrics are totally optional. You need a melodic line, chord progression and resolution, etc., etc. I grew up in a very musical household and I've been exposed to a great variety of the strange noises earthlings call music, and rap doesn't seem to qualify. Rap is very fun performance art, and I get a kick out of it, but music? Not in my opinion.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
thank you. :) (none / 0) (#111)
by aphrael on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 05:33:32 PM EST

Your experience is very different from mine. The "rap fans" I know, all of whom will say they're into hip-hop instead of rap, are into things like common and krs-1; blackalicious and freestyle fellowship; zion i and hieroglyphics, etc. These fans, by and large, have the same sort of hate-the-big-name ethic that the indy rock people do. They'd agree that "pop rap" is a sellout ... but they'd also deny that "pop rap" has any right to speak for rap in general.

And there's a huge number of them; shows by these people routinely sell out every venue they play. You just aren't gonna hear about them if your only exposure to rap is the radio.

[ Parent ]

Just... stop... talking. (none / 0) (#115)
by partialpeople on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 10:06:54 PM EST

You obviously don't get to comment on what does and doesn't matter in the rap world.  Here are the reasons why:

A)  You don't understand hip-hop, by your own admission.
B)  You are completely unaware of the contributions of KRS-One and Common.
C)  Your rap tastes are all based within the frame of commercial rap, so you feel comfortable saying that commercial rap's values speak for all rap as a genre.

The bottom line is, you're talking out of your ass about something you don't know anything about.  Moreover, you're claiming a whole genre of music is without artistic merit because the shit you hear on the radio is all about the money.

Give me a break.

If there's one good thing that came out of your ridiculous crap, it's that I finally made a K5 account for the express purpose of flaming you.

[ Parent ]

Heh. (none / 0) (#118)
by Kasreyn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:10:01 AM EST

If there's one good thing that came out of your ridiculous crap, it's that I finally made a K5 account for the express purpose of flaming you.

Glad to get people motivated. ^_^

You obviously don't get to comment on what does and doesn't matter in the rap world.

Incorrect. Anyone who hears something gets to comment on it! Such as you commenting on your assumptions about me.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
I have to agree with K (none / 0) (#112)
by 123456789 on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 06:04:58 PM EST

... from what I've seen, and the people I've talked to that are "into" rap, the point is to sell records. So irrespective (is that a word?) of any other factors, ICP is a rap band overflowing with merit (bling).

---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
[ Parent ]
This was sooooo -1 (none / 1) (#50)
by D Jade on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:06:52 PM EST

But I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought I'd read it first... Glad I did... I still don't get the Insane Clown Pussies or their popularity... Fortunately round here, they've never been popular... We have taste :P

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive

BLOW ME EMO FAG PUSSY MUTHAFUCKA (1.20 / 10) (#58)
by Juggalo on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:35:08 PM EST

YEAH YOU HAVE TASTE...THE TASTE OF SHIT FROM THE DICKS YOU JUST SUKKED...ICP RUUUUULLLLZZZZZ!!!!11!! PYSCHOPATHIC ROCK!!!!

JUGGALOS REPRESENT!!!!  AIGHT!!!!!

[ Parent ]

Oh dear... (none / 0) (#61)
by D Jade on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:28:51 AM EST

Um... This is kind of funny... But I wouldn't openly proclaim that the Insane Clown Pussies rock... At least, not in the real world.

But then, you like them which means you have no self-respect anyway...

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]

Don't you just hate... (none / 1) (#87)
by mcgrew on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:51:37 PM EST

when you -1 something, post a topical comment crowing about how the story will go down in flames as you -1 it and then it goes FP?

Kinda makes ya look stupid, don't it? Personally, I never heard of these clown guys and I hate rap, but I thought it was a good read.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

But I gave it +1 (none / 0) (#92)
by D Jade on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:56:35 PM EST

This time I actually did like the story. But my comment said that. I didn't want the story to go down in flames anyway.

McGrew, you might hate rap and all. But surely you'd realise how crap the Insane Clown Pussies are just by their name... Kind of gives it away.

And YES! I hate it when you -1 a crapflood and then it ends up on the front page, and everyone talks about it, and you just know that everyone looks at you and points and says, "He called it a crapflood and it's +1FP" and then you get all nervous and disoriented and the bad thoughts come... :P

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]

More on ICP's music. (3.00 / 7) (#54)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 09:42:13 PM EST

This is from a comment I did buried deep in the thread. Though it's too late to cut and paste it into the article, I think it will give a better idea of what they are about.

Faygo, as they describe it as a sort of "ghetto cola" because it's cheap (though I saw it in bottles in a sandwich shop once and it looked to be more like a boutique Coca Cola) which juggalos like to spray on each other. If you suddenly decide to go Jane Goodall and observe juggalos in their natural habitat, you will end up covered in the stuff.

The most redeemable aspect of ICP is actually their music. Lyrically, they blow away any rhyme done by Limp Bizkit (not difficult since Durst thinks he's tough because he's seen Fight Club 38 times) and you won't catch them doing duets with Sheryl Crow, like Kid Rock. In terms of whiteboy rap, they are lesser talents to say Eminem (a rant or a rave, depending on your opinion of Eminem.) They are thrice as juvenile as Marshall, but only half as pretentious.

They admirably and often condemn racism, albeit by suggesting juggalos go down to south and shoot every redneck they see (the subject of their song "Chickin' Huntin'") They also condemn greed ("Piggy Pie") and eschew the rampant "bling bling" materialism of most popular rap.

That said, their music is often inaccesible to those who are not of the juggalo persuasion. It is constantly peppered with references that only the weak chinned guy working the counter at Conoco would understand. They are also rampantly homophobic, and contain enough sexism to make Fiddy Cent look like a feminist. The fanaticism of juggalos is also a major turn off, as they all seem obsessed with action figures and pro-wrestling.

Overall, if you were REALLY stoned (like I was when I gained this knowledge of juggalo culture) the music of Insane Clown Posse is good for an immature laugh and then a trip to the used CD store to trade them in for something you can listen to with other people in the room.

Now, I'm gonna throw on some Charles Mingus, Thelonius Monk, Charlie Parker, and Ella Fitzgerald and forget that I know so much about the Insane Clown Posse.

i've managed (none / 1) (#63)
by Abominable Abitur on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 02:38:07 AM EST

to never hear them. and up until your comment, i never knew what Faygo was either.

I'm better for it too I think.

"Terrorism is only a viable "political activist" method for marginalized nutjobs, bottom line. The backlash that it causes makes it intractable for any reasonable ideology. Which is why you don't generally see wild athiest suicide bombers in america's streets." - lonelyhobo
[ Parent ]

dude... jsut so you know... they are from detroit (none / 0) (#65)
by modmans2ndcoming on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:08:42 AM EST

which happens to be the home distributorship of faygo. it is certainly not boutique... it sells for cheap here in michigan and the best flavor they sell is rock and rye :-)

BTW.. ICP are a bunch of cock heads.... I thought that their followers were morons back in the early 90's... thank god emenem came along and gave a good place for the idiots to get their fix on white rap.

[ Parent ]

No Brubeck? (none / 1) (#104)
by kurtmweber on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 09:11:23 AM EST

Loser...

Kurt Weber
Any field of study can be considered 'complex' when it starts using Hebrew letters for symbols.--me
[ Parent ]
JUGGALOS REPRESENT!!! (1.64 / 17) (#55)
by Juggalo on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:09:54 PM EST

ICP RULES! MY MAN VIOLENT J IN DA HOUSE AIGHT!1!  ALL JUGGALOS AND JUGGALETS RAISE YO GUNS IN DA AIR!!  FUCK FEMINEM!!!  GIMME A FUCKIN FAYGO AN SUCK MA DIK!!!!! PSYCOPATHIC ROCK RULEZ!!!

WOOF WOOF!!!!!!

JUGGALO OUT MUTHAFUCKAZ!!!!!!!

you sir (none / 1) (#117)
by acebone on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 11:30:15 PM EST

are a wanker....
--------- Je suis un étranger en tranché
[ Parent ]
Why the enduring popularity? (2.66 / 3) (#60)
by Coryoth on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 12:42:35 AM EST

My best guess is it in part relates to the fact that they have cult/exclusivity for their followers, and managed to cultivate a suitable different/exclusive image that they can claim a cult sub-culture.  That's mostly all there is to it.  Brand yourself well as a seriously "edgy" anti-establishment alternative act (so your listeners can feel part of the small exclusive elite who shun the "popular" music), and make sure your marketing and image promotes something sufficiently unique that your listeners can feel like they have their own "private culture".  Hell, how the hell did Marylin Manson manage to stay as popular as he has for as long as he has?  Pretty much the same theory really.

Jedidiah.

For the most part (3.00 / 2) (#64)
by Phil Urich on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:05:16 AM EST

Though Manson's popularity also comes from continually re-inventing himself; okay, it probably doesn't seem like it from the outside, but as soon as you start listening to the music you realize how he is constantly re-defining who he and his music are. Ironically enough I just finished writing a post about this on echoingthesound; the gist of it is, Manson thrives on the influence of whoever he collaborates with at the time, and on whatever influence he's aiming for (glam-rock with "Mechanical Animals", working with Tim Skold and channelling Weimar-era Berlin in "The Golden Age of Grotesque, etc etc). But this isn't to contradict your theory; indeed, you're quite right. But the constantly re-inventing himself helps to:

(1) Draw in new people like flies to flypaper
(2) Keep the short-attention-span kids that, as far as I can tell, make up the majority of his audience; if he stayed the same, they'd just move on to the next trend.

[ Parent ]
Manson tries to be David Bowie. (2.66 / 3) (#67)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:48:53 AM EST

To me, Bowie is over by the mid-eighties and overrated since. In his early years, he did some excellent things and pioneered the whole "re-interpreting your message" thing, but really the only character anyone remembers about him is Ziggy Stardust.

Manson has tweaked his image every album. First, he starts as an industrial metal band, second fiddle to his mentor Trent Reznor. Does the Church of Satan thing for Antichrist Superstar; goes glam for Mechanical Animals, tries the "thoughtful commentator of pop culture" approach after Columbine, when the only person who would still interview him is Michael Moore. By the time he realizes the only people who still listen to him are people who never really got out of their "goth phase", the kids and Joe Lieberman had turned their attention to white-trash rapper Eminem.

The most ridiculous thing he tries is that supposed fight between him and Trent Reznor. Pallid, white, absinthe-sipping industrial rockers should not try to engage in East Coast/West Coast feuds. No one buys it; they know its not gonna escalate into some Tupac vs. Biggie type shit (maybe in Norway, but Americans aren't Nordic Nazis either).

Anyway, seeing NIN at Coachella at the end of this month. Here's hoping their new album won't be as crappy as The Fragile.

[ Parent ]

tsk tsk (2.66 / 3) (#69)
by Phil Urich on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 05:34:23 AM EST

All you haters of "The Fragile" . . . I think it was a pretty damn good album. Certainly not a normal album, by no means a straight-out "I'm-really-angry-so-I'm-making-rock-music" kind of album, more for those who like the ethreal, semi-classical work that Reznor sometimes makes . . . I guess the question is, did you like "Still"? (though most people haven't heard it, and I've had very little luck getting myself an actual copy of it). The piano part in the rendition of "The Day The World Went Away" was nearly enough on its own to win my younger sister over to Nine Inch Nails.

Nevertheless, from preliminary reports, it's a very different album than The Fragile, and I shan't at all complain; especially since, from what I've heard from it so far, it's going to be quite good, indeed, exactly in the right avenue to please people like you that felt The Fragile was a low point. So, cheers to that!

[ Parent ]
Please explain yourself (none / 1) (#83)
by PhadeRunner on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:45:28 PM EST

(maybe in Norway, but Americans aren't Nordic Nazis either).

Huh?  Your post almost made sense until then.  Please explain...

[ Parent ]

Well... (none / 1) (#98)
by mikael_j on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 02:47:50 AM EST

I think this sort of explains why it makes sense...

/Mikael
We give a bad name to the internet in general. - Rusty
[ Parent ]

Oh now -that's- statisticly solid. (none / 0) (#133)
by trezor on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 09:11:36 PM EST

One black metal loser is to define the entire population of the country he is from, that's sweet.

I call upon thee The American Nazi party. Now that truly makes the entire US a nazi-continent, doesn't it? Please, try to remain at least somewhat reasonable in your argumentation.


--
Richard Dean Anderson porn? - Now spread the news

[ Parent ]
Two things (none / 1) (#132)
by trezor on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 09:07:21 PM EST

    (maybe in Norway, but Americans aren't Nordic Nazis either)

A bit to late for me to avoid the Godwin, but I just feel like informing you that if anyone is to be labeled nazis, it would have to be the Americans. Their politics is so way for right that no party in Norway could be taken seriously if they took a similar stance.

In fact the most right-wing party in Norway would be called "liberal commie hippies" (or something like that) in the US.

    Anyway, seeing NIN at Coachella at the end of this month. Here's hoping their new album won't be as crappy as The Fragile.

I happen to like industrial and have lots of NIN stashed in my cd-collection, and I think The Fragile is a damn good album. Maybe different from Pretty Hate Machine, Broken and their early material, but a damn good album none the less. Bands are allowed to evolve, you know.


--
Richard Dean Anderson porn? - Now spread the news

[ Parent ]
See KISS [n/t] (2.50 / 2) (#66)
by nutate on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 03:12:04 AM EST



Should have been called.. (none / 0) (#93)
by JohnLamar on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 09:49:13 PM EST

"A Non-Loser's Guide to the totally lame ass Insane Clown Posse"


The worst thing you've ever seen
[ Parent ]

Goldie Lookin' Chain (1.50 / 2) (#70)
by c4miles on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:38:17 AM EST

This group sounds very reminiscent of the UK chav-rap group Goldie Lookin' Chain, except with a few more albums, more makeup, more religion and less Burberry.

Anyone who knows ICP and GLC better than me able to make a comparison?
--
For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.

Id take GLC (none / 0) (#74)
by djbumrush on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 10:23:13 AM EST

I probably know ICP a little better than you (I own one CD, the Milenko one, but I forget the name of it), but I probably know less about GLC. Nada is a good track, and based on that Id say GLC seems a good bit more intelligent, artistic, and articulate.

[ Parent ]
Not the same at all (none / 0) (#106)
by m50d on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 11:01:29 AM EST

I know GLC fairly well and I think they're different in that they don't do the whole devotion thing. You like GLC, you buy their albums, go to their concerts, you don't go around chanting about them. And they're more public, even having charted at No. 4. Finally, there's no subculture around them the way there is for ICP. Fans don't band together, or advertise themselves as fans. They're just another group, just a more self-parodying one than most.

[ Parent ]
Not Much Similarity (none / 0) (#131)
by czolgosz on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 05:52:25 PM EST

GLC is more into social satire (some self-deprecating) and can be quite acute at times, as well as often very funny. Their grafting of hip-hop onto Southwaleyan chav culture is surprisingly viable. Safe as fuck. And Eggsy is my vocal role model. Listen to Self Suicide to get a sense of how much they're capable of.

I agree with other posters who've pegged ICP as more of a latter-day KISS, with rap being their era's lowest common musical denominator just as stadium prog-rock was in KISS's heyday.


Why should I let the toad work squat on my life? --Larkin
[ Parent ]
Educated, professional, ..and down with the clowns (2.66 / 3) (#77)
by xtal on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 12:31:41 PM EST

For what it's worth, I'm a EE, 28, have a steady job, and I am most certainly down with the clowns. A good number of other people I know are as well, and none of them remotely fit the stereotype in your article. ICP are what they are; they don't claim to be anything else. That's the appeal. It IS a subculture; all that's required for entry is bein' down. Their lyrics are obscenely violent and distasteful, but hysterically funny at the same time. No other band -dares- to go where ICP does. Do you know how populat they are? They've got multiple platinum and gold records, dispite having Z E R O radio or video play. I recommend everyone with a sense of humor and some face paint check out classics like: Bitches Piggy Pie I Stab People Night of the Axe What is a Juggalo? and of course.. Fuck the World They did a hysterical spoof of "My name is" by Eminem.. hehe

Oh? (none / 0) (#80)
by puppeteer on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:52:49 PM EST

No other band -dares- to go where ICP does.

See: Gwar.net

ICP are a couple of pussies.

[ Parent ]
Gwar is played out (none / 0) (#96)
by xtal on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:45:13 AM EST

I like gwar, but they're kinda played.

Definate similarities though.

[ Parent ]

Re: Gwar is played out (none / 0) (#122)
by zerocommazero on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 04:32:31 PM EST

Most definitely. They were alot better when they were comedic on their albums. Nowadays that "big joke" feeling is gone as they concentrate on their music as opposed to their comedy act. It's never been the same since Sleazy left.
"I have a few truths for the men in this audience. It's your fault for all the violence in this country and it's your fault for all the crime in this country."-Peter Griffin at the Million Man March
[ Parent ]
Dude (2.00 / 3) (#81)
by TheOnlyCoolTim on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 02:46:38 PM EST

For this disgraceful behavior I kick you out of being an EE.

Tim
"We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."
[ Parent ]

None of those E's stand for english major.. (none / 0) (#95)
by xtal on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:44:11 AM EST

:)

Also, I wish it were possible to change the formatting. I always forget it's set to html formatting by default.

[ Parent ]

Oh, that makes it okay then (1.80 / 5) (#99)
by der on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 02:57:06 AM EST

Um, this is the Internet.

It's not very difficult to find educated, professionals into underage rape porn.

This is the same retarded argument furries use to defend themselves "blah blah I know a furry 30 year old professional IT manager blah blah". Yeah? Good for you!

You're still a tool.



[ Parent ]
clever post.... (none / 1) (#130)
by heliarch on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 03:59:38 PM EST

Indirectly associating furries, and jugalos with pederists. Your rhetorical accumen is sharp.

[ Parent ]
*snort* (none / 0) (#135)
by spiralx on Tue Apr 12, 2005 at 11:36:29 AM EST

I'm sure Cannibal Corpse was doing "obscenely violent and distasteful" lyrics better over a decade ago.

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

Two sides to this (none / 1) (#79)
by codejack on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:46:59 PM EST

While most of their fans are complete morons, the music (is that the right word?) is pretty good. This is not unusual, witness the grateful dead.

Also, the great milenko was their best album.


Please read before posting.

ICP (2.50 / 2) (#86)
by The Real Lord Kano on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:46:26 PM EST

My best friend was into ICP about 6 years ago. One day we were going somewhere in his car and he put in an ICP CD. He wanted me to hear a song. I don't remember the name of the song, but it was a cover of "Assassins" by the Geto Boys. He was surprised that I knew all of the words. He asked if I listen to them, I explained that I did not and that I had a CD that I wanted to let him listen to.

It kind of let the air out of his sails to learn that this song that he liked and was so cutting edge was a cover of another song that was almost 10 years old.

LK

Big Money Hustlas (none / 1) (#94)
by avatarxy on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 11:07:13 PM EST

Anyone seen Big Money Hustlas, ICP's (perhaps only... no sight of Big Money Rustlas) movie? This could taste a whole lot better, if you weren't getting robbed for all of your cheddar!

Let the record show (none / 1) (#100)
by RevLoveJoy on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 03:06:53 AM EST

this is the funniest K5 story and commentary since localroger's search algorithm bit.

-- RLJ

Every political force in the U.S. that seeks to get past the Constitution by sophistry or technicality is little more than a wannabe king. -- pyro9

I can sense the presence... (none / 1) (#101)
by gmol on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 04:26:47 AM EST

of very powerful trolling energy in the vicinity...

I can't pinpoint it exactly since I think I may have read the words "Insane" "Clown" "Posse" once before this article, and it may well have been in a completely independant context.

being a Juggalo (2.00 / 2) (#108)
by SmokingGuerilla on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 12:51:35 PM EST

Being a Juggalo was the one of the best times of my life. Hanging out with other Juggalos, going to concerts and having the times of our lives. It was always fun going to a concert, painting your face up and spraying Faygo everywhere. Who gives a fuck what everyone else thinks, we were the ones having one hell of a time that we'll never forget. ICP's music is on a whole other level, their music really lets you get away from all that mainstream bullshit by letting you enjoy your imagination.

Bad title (2.75 / 4) (#110)
by splitpeasoup on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 01:34:22 PM EST

Should read "Guide to my drug dealer, who is so much more of a lowlife than I am, and some incidental references to a rap group I don't much care for"

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Child support for unwanted children (2.25 / 4) (#116)
by QuantumG on Thu Apr 07, 2005 at 11:15:18 PM EST

I know a guy who had a girlfriend who was on the pill and they always used condoms. She fell pregnant. He told her to get rid of it (this is Australia BTW, which is perhaps the most liberal western country other than France when it comes to abortion) and she agreed. Two months later she told him she hadn't had it done. They had a huge fight. She moved back to her parents place (interstate) and then she had the nerve to ask for child support.

I heard about a court case once where a couple entered into a legal contract (they even hired a lawyer) in which they agreed to not have children and use whatever means necessary to ensure such. Then the woman fell pregnant and decided she wanted to keep it. He left her and the court ordered him to pay child support.

It's simply the opinion of the state that men must pay for the upbringing of their children, regardless of whether they ever wanted to have children. The decision whether or not to have an abortion is at the sole discretion of the woman, and there is no financial responsibility for choosing not to.

The only way a man can ensure that his partner does not burden him with the financial responsibility of unwanted children is to have a vasectomy. Many men do not wish to have a vasectomy as it is not reversible (unlike women who can have their tubes tied and then untied at a later date).

That said, I know men who have had a vasectomy. One of my friends actually had it done when he was 20 years old! He met and fell in love with a woman two years later and were married. They had agreed that neither of them wanted children. After 7 years of marriage she changed her mind. She didn't tell him and just went off the pill. He didn't know she had done this, otherwise he would have told her he was incapable of having children. She saw doctor after doctor for years who told her she was perfectly capable of having children. She never thought to inform her husband of this, as she was sure that it was her own fault, and feared that he would find out that she had gone off the pill without telling him. Guilt can be a powerful thing. Eventually it destroyed their marriage. She voluntarily checked herself into a clinic for mental evaluation shortly after he told her about the vasectomy.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.

reversible vasectomies (none / 1) (#120)
by hab136 on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:55:00 PM EST

Many men do not wish to have a vasectomy as it is not reversible

I have two friends who have has vasectomies reversed.

They used to be irreversible; and if not done with an eye towards later reversibility, they may still be.

But at least some can be reversed.

[ Parent ]

cool (none / 1) (#126)
by QuantumG on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 09:26:22 PM EST

I've also heard that some men get a number of sperm samples frozen before they are snipped just in case they change their mind down the road.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
tell yer friends (1.80 / 5) (#124)
by FieryTaco on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 07:20:19 PM EST

The one and only reason I am against abortion is because it's not necessary.

If you don't want a kid, don't have sex. Problem solved.

If you don't want to pay child support, don't have sex. Otherwise you're accepting the risk that your contraception is going to fail, so grow a spine and fucking do your duty to your kid and society and don't bitch that you "didn't want the kid."

[ Parent ]

go back to the 14th century (1.50 / 2) (#125)
by QuantumG on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 09:21:46 PM EST

Remember the sexual revolution? Some of us enjoy sex and have no intention of making children, so why should a woman have to go through the pain of child birth just because you've got a problem with her getting an operation that is the equivalent of having a mole removed.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
idiot (1.75 / 4) (#127)
by FieryTaco on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 09:43:05 PM EST

You're an idiot. Really. I'll recant that I proclaim myself an idiot if you can find five women who have had abortions who will tell you it was the equivalent of having a mole removed. Until then, you'll be known as "that one stupid fucker." Enjoy your lifelong title, you stupid fucker.

[ Parent ]
I know more than 10 (none / 1) (#128)
by QuantumG on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 10:54:27 PM EST

Here in Australia and even more so in France an abortion isn't seen as a big thing. It's only societies that are filled with fucked up nuts like you that make women feel bad about controlling their own bodies.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
you are fucking stupid! (none / 0) (#140)
by dflux2140 on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 04:05:58 AM EST

A mole is never going to turn into a kid. Abortion should never be taken lightly!

[ Parent ]
A woman should have a choice (none / 1) (#141)
by QuantumG on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 05:19:54 AM EST

simple as that.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
Premarital Sex ... (none / 0) (#149)
by geekpolitico on Wed May 04, 2005 at 04:40:19 PM EST

Has always been around, so has abortion.  It's not like the Romans were only promiscuous in homosexual relationships.

Additionally, I would argue that abortion is the second oldest medical procedure after childbirth.  


[ Parent ]

That was the most rediculous lie i have ever read (1.33 / 3) (#138)
by skintigh on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 06:07:08 PM EST

How could someone be married 7 years to a guy who was "fixed" and 1) not notice - no oral, ever? 2) he never bring it up - slipped his mind? 3) he let her spend all that money on hormone pills when there was no need - about that medicine you've been taking for 7 years that messes up your emotions...

[ Parent ]
wtf? (1.50 / 2) (#139)
by bigdavex on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 12:15:06 AM EST

How could someone be married 7 years to a guy who was "fixed" and 1) not notice -
It's not like he doesn't have testacles. (He wasn't castrated or "fixed".) The vas deferens are inside the body.

[ Parent ]
oh man (1.00 / 3) (#119)
by angstRidden on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:27:39 AM EST

this is so fucking retarded...

Who are these clowns? (2.50 / 2) (#123)
by CrazyUncleJoe on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:53:05 PM EST

Perhaps the only useful function of the continued existence of juggalos is that they make goths suddenly seem cool.

This is officially my favorite K5 story ever! I don't cross paths with the juggalos much, but I do get the occasional email from angry little juggalettes demanding that I stop impersonating Joey, and when I lived in Hollywood I'd occasionally get phone calls from wasted teens who thought they were super detectives because they called directory assistance:
"hullo, shag? heh heh. Hey. What's up?"
"Sorry dude. This isn't 'Shaggy 2-Dope' - I'm pretty sure he lives in Detroit."
"uhhh... hello? Joey?"
"I think they just got arrested for punching dumpsters in Wisconsin or something." "uhhh... is Shaggy there?"
"*sigh* No. He's on tour. Can I take a message?"
"heh. cool. JUGGALOS! *click*"
I actually used to think that ICP was some really smart guys playing wacko as a gimmick to draw the disaffected high school dropout crowd, but I read a few interviews, and saw a few police reports and... I'm going to go with "unintentionally funny." Still, you have to give them credit for Juggalo Championshit Wrestling - it is really hard to do something that is a parody of actual wrestling. Intentional or not, that's some funny shit.

I rate this as .... (1.50 / 2) (#129)
by Krueger Industrial Smoothing on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 12:39:44 AM EST

On a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being "Most Stupid":

Being a Juggalo - 10
Being a member of ICP - 9.99
Using the word Juggalo in public - 9.9
Spending more than 3 seconds thinking about ICP and Juggalos and why they still exist - 9.7

Worst story ever (1.00 / 2) (#137)
by alecsmare on Wed Apr 13, 2005 at 07:33:37 AM EST

How the hell did this make it to the front page?

A flash of light, a cloud of dust and ... what was the question?


Quality (1.33 / 3) (#142)
by exa on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 02:57:45 PM EST

This article seems to show the general quality of the crowd in K5. ICP fans or not. I just stepped in to see if there is anything worthwhile, and this.

Who's a loser? Some silly fan of a rap band or an idiot who writes a silly diatribe about how he dislikes that band and its fans or a large group of idiots who think this idiocy is worth the front page of a "prominent web site"? This place just got lower than the USENET sewer.
__
exa a.k.a Eray Ozkural
There is no perfect circle.

What about... (none / 1) (#143)
by braeburn on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 05:18:40 PM EST

And what about those who post to comment solely about how much of a loser a person is for posting said diatribe?

[ Parent ]
Hah (none / 0) (#144)
by exa on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 08:38:53 PM EST

Nice try. But it doesn't work. Sorry.

__
exa a.k.a Eray Ozkural
There is no perfect circle.

[ Parent ]
Au contraire (none / 1) (#145)
by Ronin X on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 02:16:59 PM EST

I thought it worked just fine. But your dismissive short sentences. They don't work. Kthxbye.

[ Parent ]
*laugh* (none / 0) (#147)
by aphrael on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 04:58:14 PM EST

I thought it was a fascinating article, because it took the time to describe a cultural phenomenon with which I had heretofore been entirely unfamiliar. Yeah, it was a rant. But it was a *funny* rant ... and it showed me something entirely <em>new</em>.

How much more can a jaded historian-cum-programmer ask for?

[ Parent ]

well the article is fine.. (none / 0) (#148)
by shinnin on Tue May 03, 2005 at 05:08:38 PM EST

..as a piece about a very curious subculture.

I am amazed that it's still on the frontpage, which probably says a lot about what's (not) going on at k5.

[ Parent ]

So what WONT get on the front page here? (none / 0) (#146)
by JohnnyBolla on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 05:34:25 PM EST

I have an essay I wrote about the aplastic qualities of the big dump I took this morning, and K5 may well be my springboard to fame!

insane clown posse (2.00 / 6) (#151)
by jaggalo 666 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:12:34 AM EST

you are a bitch and you talk a lot of shit for a punk who knows nothing about icp and youbetter hope none of the jaggalos around you find this because you better not think that for one minute you will be safe if they find this they will probably gather around your house and shatter your skull with a brick and send you to hells pit and they woulddo it all for the dark carnival.  

all i am saying is you all suck and if any of you came in contact with a crowed of jaggalos you would all probably shit your pants.  fuck you all.

Contact me. (none / 0) (#152)
by Psycho Dave on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 07:53:44 PM EST

I'll give you my address. I'm sure I can ward the entire "Juggalo Nation" off with nothing but zit-cream and some food stamps.

fuck you (1.50 / 6) (#153)
by jaggalo 666 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:29:38 PM EST

fuck you you fucking shit face cock suking little bitch why don't you go and fuck your mom some mor because she is the only one that loves you and that little comment right there was pretty gay.  so if you think you scare me with a little zit cream or you can pay me off with food stamps you are out of your mind.

I posted a diary about you... (none / 0) (#154)
by Psycho Dave on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 06:40:55 AM EST

You should troll the diary section here. You're barely literate, but can string enough curse words together to be sort of amusing...

That said, if you can write a convincing argument on why ICP rulez all, I'll publicly beg for the mercy of the Dark Carnival (and all the hundred lame-o's that still follow it). How does that sound?

[ Parent ]

ok (none / 0) (#155)
by jaggalo 666 on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 07:13:22 PM EST

i accept your bet or challenge or what ever the fuck it is give me like four or five days to get one put together

Four or five days? (none / 0) (#156)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 06:35:49 AM EST

I put mine together in three hours. But take your time and check your spelling. I look forward to reading it in the queue.

[ Parent ]
A Non-Loser's Guide to The Insane Clown Posse | 156 comments (127 topical, 29 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest © 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!