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[P]
Devastation

By localroger in Culture
Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:16:12 AM EST
Tags: You Know... (all tags)
You Know...

"It looked just like a scene from Apocalypse Now. The grass was dead, all the trees were down or dead. Everything was covered in mud. Cars were covered in mud, pushed everywhere, on the median, in the yards. Everything that wasn't covered in mud was covered in mold."

--My coworker E, describing his house, which sits about three blocks from where the 17th street canal levee broke in New Orleans


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"It looked just like those pictures from Iraq, like everything had been blown up except somehow the buildings were still standing. Everything was covered in mud, cars and even big tractor trailers had been tossed everywhere like Tonka toys. Loaded tractor trailers full of sulphur, eighty thousand pounds, just pushed wherever. And further south toward Venice, everything was just gone."

--My coworker D describing a business-related trip through Plaquemines Parish

My power is back on and I am home. I am typing this at my desk in my house and surfing K5 through my own DSL internet connection. But even counting aside the fact that my wife is still in Tennessee, there is a big hole in the side of my house, and there's another storm looming, things aren't normal.

If you drive a lot in the South you occasionally run across a stretch of Interstate where the trees are all torn up for a few hundred feet, with dead stick trunks sticking every which way and obvious signs of falls that were hastily cleared from the road. And you say to yourself, so that was where the tornado crossed the road.

The entire stretch of I-59 from Meridian to Slidell looks like that. For more than a hundred miles half or more of the trees are down, many a foot or more in diameter snapped half-way up like toothpicks. Enormous piles of dead trees wait at intervals to be picked up. Billboards are down. Road signs are shredded. In fact, the sign inviting you into the welcome center on I-20 as it enters Mississippi at Meridian is shredded. The further south you get the more shredding there is, until near the I-59/I-10/I-12 interchange every building sports a blue tarp, and entire sections of the wide, once-forested median have been reduced to red clay.

The eye of Katrina went right up I-59. The hurricane still had a clear eye and intact eyewall and intensity of Category 2 when it reached Meridian, over 150 miles inland.

In Mandeville the power is back on almost everywhere and the biggest complaint of returnees is that the cable TV isn't. Most of the major businesses and about half of the small ones are open, and many have "now hiring" signs out front. The parish has been open for a week.

"For about a week and a half you wouldn't believe how quiet it was. All you heard was helicopters and generators running and you could see every damn star in the night sky."

--Neighbor G on life after riding out the storm

In Mandeville's old lakefront district there was flooding, but most of the city is intact and we are lightly hit compared to the more famously ruined areas. But there are oddities. Only about half of my neighbors are here. And every single house has a big pile of debris out front. Some, like mine, are relatively modest, while others are big enough to hide the houses they front. In some places the street feels like one of those channels Luke Skywalker flew through on the Death Star, a straight narrow canyon with an asphalt base and walls of dead foliage and applicances.

Occasionally, a house will sport the mark of a "house killer" tree similar to the one that almost destroyed my own house two years ago. Most of these haven't been removed yet. As with the smaller job of replacing the two 4x8 sheathing panels that blew off one end of my attic, you can't find a contractor to do anything.

While enough businesses are open to make normal life possible there are glaring exceptions. The largest and most popular gas station in town remains closed. Interspersed among the open businesses are those still boarded up. I haven't checked yet to see if Isabella's Pizzeria is open, but the grocery store is. The po-boy sandwich shop on the corner is open, but the venetian blind company that lives in the other half of its building isn't.

Most of the rubbish piles in my part of town are just trees, but here and there one will contain furniture, the telltale mark of a house that flooded. Many include refrigerators duct-taped closed.

"A lot of people are being transferred to other offices in other cities because their New Orleans offices can't open. And for others, the companies that they worked for don't even exist any more, so they're dealing with all this crap and they're unemployed, too."

--My insurance adjuster

I went back to work today and re-installed the computers that I removed and carried off to Tennessee a week ago. The work crews have done an impressive job of getting the power and telecoms back running in St. Tammany and Jefferson parishes. Our building in Harahan, very near the Huey P. Long bridge, sustained only minor damage. But the light bulb wholesaler at the other end of our short street lost its entire roof. Fences are down everywhere -- a repair non-priority. All along river road the levee is littered with metal siding, insulation, and roofing materials.

In St. Tammany and Jefferson most of the traffic lights are now working, but a lot of the utility poles and signs lean at odd angles. The repair crews left anything in place that could be used, whether it was right or not. In many places the telephone and cable TV wires lie on the ground, left there by the power crews who left their repair and re-hanging to the companies that own them. Many of these cables are in service, lying on the ground. My own home phone connection is like this, lying on the ground for blocks at a time along highway 22.

Many fallen billboards are still where they landed. The view from an overpass reveals a sea of blue-tarped roofs. Along Causeway Boulevard, one home is tarped with one of those plastic billboard covers which must have blown off its billboard and been salvaged by the homeowner.

The Quizno's near our shop appears undamaged but isn't open. The Subway lost their sign but they are open, with a hand-lettered poster out on the road to let you know. The local Tastee Donut, which at first glance appears to have been totally destroyed, is actually open for business despite its smashed facade and boarded-up windows.

If you try to enter Orleans Parish, a great vast dark area that once represented half our business and where the half of our employees who are still displaced used to live, you are greeted either by a four-foot high earthen barrier or by a checkpoint where you must convince a National Guardsman that you really have important business in there. As I've quoted a couple of my coworkers have done so. I haven't -- yet. But offhand I can think of six systems that I built that were under more than eight feet of water, and I know that one day soon I will probably be seeing it for myself.

As E declared after viewing the ruin of his house, vast stretches of Orleans will simply be bulldozed and, insurance money and previous owners willing, rebuilt. He has said his house will only be rebuilt if it's sitting on ten foot high stilts, with an expendable garage or workroom as the ground floor. That's the way many of the camps in places like Fourchon and Venice are built, where the owners understand that flooding isn't a possibility but an inevitability. When those gutted neighborhoods are rebuilt, if they ever are, they won't look much like they did before Katrina.

Life has already returned to the outer parishes, not in a normal way but more in the way life returns when you inject adrenaline into someone's heart to restart it. When as many people are willing return to this place, it will still be a long time before it's "normal."

P.S. Hi, Rita!

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Poll
New Orleans is the new:
o Venice 5%
o Atlantis 10%
o Carthage 10%
o New Orleans-themed Disney World (tm) 16%
o Same old disaster waiting to happen 58%

Votes: 60
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Display: Sort:
Devastation | 122 comments (115 topical, 7 editorial, 0 hidden)
Hello dahling (2.05 / 17) (#1)
by Hurricane Rita on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 07:49:34 PM EST

Be seeing you soon!

wow you created an account just for this comment$ (1.00 / 2) (#8)
by boboli fresh on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:52:01 PM EST



------
"Kaycee, you don't need this negativity in your life."
[ Parent ]
Do all your friends have one letter names? (1.50 / 2) (#2)
by nailgun on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 07:57:14 PM EST

It does make filling out forms a little faster, I'll say that much.

Part tradition, part foolishness (none / 1) (#3)
by localroger on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:01:05 PM EST

Back when I was actually anonymous I used the device to stay that way when I wrote A Casino Odyssey. Nowadays it isn't too hard to figure out who I am even given the number of Rogger Williamses out there, but it seems more polite to clothe my associates in a polite pretense of anonymity rather than to just use their real names without asking first.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
If your name was only one letter ... (none / 1) (#36)
by Ignore Amos on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:44:55 AM EST

... it'd be harder for you to misspell.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

But more embarrassing if you did. [n/t] (3.00 / 4) (#38)
by skim123 on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:17:12 PM EST


Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Live in California, don't care about katrina. (1.06 / 15) (#6)
by LilDebbies Wife on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:50:21 PM EST

Human life is worthless, don't care about katrina. No one I knew was affected, don't care about katrina. Localrogger should have died, the only reason to care about katrina.

Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
Which part of California? (1.50 / 2) (#7)
by localroger on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:51:58 PM EST

It would be convenient whether to wish you a nice wildfire or a nice earthquake.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Hardly matters. (none / 0) (#9)
by your_desired_username on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:02:03 PM EST

Over the next 50 years, as Global Warming advances, the favoured hurricane routes of the east Pacific will expand northward. San Diego, LA, San Francisco, and so forth, will all face steadily worsening hurricanes in turn.

Mr. uptownpimp will end his life hiding out in skyscraper after a Category 6 hurricane has trashed Los Angelos, and the rescue workers won't go near him, because he's still shooting at them.

[ Parent ]

Sounds about right (none / 1) (#11)
by localroger on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:09:13 PM EST

First of all we definitely need a Category 6 on the S/S scale, and we probably ought to at least tentatively stake out a cat 7 as well. I believe in the Boy Scout motto.

Also, let's not forget that it's looking REAL likely that either Greenland or West Antarctica or (BONUS PRIZE) both will melt within our lifetimes. That's about 20 feet of sea level rise EACH. East Antarctica looks stable, which is a good thing since it's good for a 600 foot (!!!!) sea level rise, but then again with life extension technology we might live to see that, too. That would bring back the inland sea the dinosaurs make so famous.

Oh, and when the Gulf Stream shuts down it will get pretty fucking cold in most of Europe, not to mention a lot of these hurricanes meandering up toward places like Washington DC and New York.

Isn't climate change FUN? That is, incidentally, why I wrote in my last queue story that I am moving. I really am. It might take a year or two depending on what's available and real estate markets, but staying here until I die is NOT on the table, unless I'm killed by one of these fucking storms before I get a chance to hightail it.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Some subjective math.... (none / 0) (#37)
by ckaminski on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:58:10 AM EST

I did a calculation of how much the sea level would rise if all surface ice on Antarctica melted.  Antarctica alone would raise the sea-levels 73 meters based on an average ice thickness of two miles.  A little under 250 feet.  This is not taking into account lowland flooding.  

Even doubling that to account for all surface ice on planet earth (I couldn't find numbers for this), you'd still be fairly short of 600 feet, and if you account for lowland areas, you'll come far short of that as well.

I could dig out the references I used if you wish...


[ Parent ]

I'll take your word for it (none / 0) (#45)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:05:08 PM EST

We do know the central US went under water. How deep doesn't really matter much. The figures I quoted came from various popular sources whose methodologies are unknown to me.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
it's almost as if (none / 0) (#64)
by fleece on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:32:37 PM EST

this year, people are really starting to take the problem of global warming seriously.
who could have seen that coming? ;)



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
Wrong coast. (none / 0) (#12)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:53:14 PM EST

No Geography.

"On Monday it was like, `Wow, it missed us, it took a turn east,' and everything eased up," Tyson said. "... And then all of a sudden, literally and fi
[ Parent ]
Wrong coast? (none / 0) (#15)
by CanSpice on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 10:07:05 PM EST

The hurricanes of the eastern Pacific form off the west coast of Mexico and could, if they turned north, threaten California. They don't turn north, instead heading west to occasionally threaten Hawaii, but if conditions change they could.

[ Parent ]
The only way they would change direction that much (none / 0) (#34)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:05:03 AM EST

is if the earth started rotating in a different direction.

There's a reason why hurricanes move in the path they do.

"On Monday it was like, `Wow, it missed us, it took a turn east,' and everything eased up," Tyson said. "... And then all of a sudden, literally and fi
[ Parent ]

Well, I have confidence (none / 0) (#48)
by Cro Magnon on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:20:20 PM EST

that Bush can get the Earth spinning wrong. Everyone knows he's responsible for both hurricanes & the tsunami by failing to sign Kyoto. That will just be the next result of his failure.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
Uh, no. (none / 1) (#121)
by CanSpice on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 10:55:42 PM EST

This is a reply to an old comment, but if you take a look at Tropical Storm Otis, currently off the southern tip of Baja California, you'll notice that it's forecasted to head nearly directly north, eventually landing in the Gulf of California where it could impact California and Arizona.

[ Parent ]
Uh, yeah, and it formed (none / 0) (#122)
by porkchop_d_clown on Tue Oct 04, 2005 at 09:08:00 PM EST

east of Baja, not west of it.

So, no, I still don't think hurricanes can form in the pacific and then hit california.

"On Monday it was like, `Wow, it missed us, it took a turn east,' and everything eased up," Tyson said. "... And then all of a sudden, literally and fi
[ Parent ]

Whos uptown pimp? (none / 0) (#24)
by LilDebbies Wife on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:31:42 AM EST



Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
[ Parent ]
Well, I couldn't use your real name (none / 0) (#27)
by your_desired_username on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 03:02:44 AM EST

some poor fool would drop it into NoMoreNicksLeft's database and get back a picture that would damage them for life.

[ Parent ]
the glory of the mid-atlantic (none / 0) (#10)
by boboli fresh on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:03:57 PM EST

from dc to nyc, we get a bit of everything natural-disaster-wise--tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, blizzards, droughts, you name it, we've experienced it within the past few years, in some very minor form.  penn-sylvania: penn's woods, the excellent peaceful and various forest of the quakers!

------
"Kaycee, you don't need this negativity in your life."
[ Parent ]
That never happens as much as (none / 0) (#25)
by LilDebbies Wife on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:33:42 AM EST

people think. Earth quake deaths are extremeley rare and I am not near forrested areas.

Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
[ Parent ]
Your sig is wrong (none / 0) (#26)
by LilDebbies Wife on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:35:34 AM EST

replace destroyer with shatterer

Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
[ Parent ]
Not quoting the Gita, quoting Oppenheimer (none / 0) (#30)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:20:42 AM EST

My sig quotes him quoting himself in an interview. Since he wasn't reading the Gita in English, he may have translated it differently according to his mood.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
I have seen his quote many times (none / 0) (#107)
by LilDebbies Wife on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 12:38:17 PM EST

and it changes depending on author.

Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
[ Parent ]
My quote (none / 0) (#109)
by localroger on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 01:45:18 PM EST

There is an audio recording of Oppenheimer himself which is available on the Web, some years after the end of the war, where he talks about that passage and why he chose to recite it at Trinity. "Destroyer" is how he quoted himself in that audio recording.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
I stand corrected. (none / 0) (#110)
by LilDebbies Wife on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 02:31:42 PM EST



Things would be much easier to say up to the microphone like a boss DJ.
[ Parent ]
Isn't worthy of the front page (2.80 / 5) (#14)
by toulouse on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:54:16 PM EST

It contains little about New Orleans that applies to anything beyond your fairly secluded and mercifully unafflicted existence. You weren't there; you were in Texas (or Tennessee - I forget which ...). Your neighbourhood is no more affected than that of a street in which a gas main blew out. Yes, you live in New Orleans; No; you're not Rageh Omar.

If it weren't for the fact that this is so well written, I'd say "D-1ary", but it is very readable (in a side-panel kind of way) so I'll vote it to section.

--
'My god...it's full of blogs.' - ktakki
--


Those so affected can't post (none / 1) (#19)
by localroger on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 10:44:26 PM EST

Thanks for you +1S vote. I probably spoke improperly of "speaking for my city" in the last article where I was primarily concerned with my plans to move out of it. But here I tried to get the gist of what I have heard and seen from people who mostly plan to stay. Sorry about not being closer to the real devastation; I might be putting that story in next week. Meanwhile, I do have eyewitness accounts from people I trust.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
ISTA. (none / 1) (#21)
by Pirengle on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 11:36:35 PM EST

Second verse goes the same as the first: a little bit louder, a lot--less?--worse.

Did Katrina leach the smug away?

Good luck and good fortune to you and yours.


♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
A sure-fire way to make friends and influence people: transform the letters "l" and "i" into "-1"s whenever posting. Instant wit!
[ Parent ]
+3 was for Rageh Omar reference (3.00 / 2) (#62)
by The Diary Section on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:52:44 PM EST

I have no problem with Roger's journalistic contributions, I take them in the context he gives them. Which is what people are complaining about, which I don't get, he says where he lives etc. He's not pretending to have spent five nights in the Astrodome.

In general I'm somewhat against the "suffering calculus" that people try to construct in these circumstances. You know what I mean, your Grandmother died in [random foreign country] on 9/11, I'm sorry for you if it upsets you, its a sad thing to happen. Its not rendered un-sad because another 3,000 people happened to die that day. Just as this article is not rendered un-interesting just because other people had worse and more colourful things happen. They aren't posting here are they. I can't vote up stories that don't exist.

So don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! And even then we won't listen.
[ Parent ]

LOL JEWS DID RITA (1.03 / 30) (#17)
by 0xA736 on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 10:39:12 PM EST

GOTTA EAT A RITA
GOTTA EAT A RITA
GOTTA EAT A RITA
GOTTA EAT A RITA
GOTTA EAT A RITA
GOTTA EAT A RITA


+1 nice one lr. (1.20 / 5) (#22)
by Russell Dovey on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 11:40:43 PM EST

This is the story I was waiting for...

...well, maybe some more stuff about looting. Can you maybe stage a raid past those National Guardsmen and tell us how it went from jail?

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

+1 FP (2.00 / 6) (#23)
by creativedissonance on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:07:30 AM EST

but only because I'm sick of the fucking card shuffling story.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
apocalypse now dead grass? (2.00 / 2) (#28)
by dimaq on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:29:46 AM EST

which scene in the movie was that?

It's what the dude said (none / 1) (#29)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:18:09 AM EST

I actually paraphrased a little; he didn't remember the name of the movie, only the line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning." I think it was more the sense of isolation and death than the literal details that made the comparison work for him.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Its time to take climate change seriously (1.75 / 4) (#31)
by brain in a jar on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:47:49 AM EST

check out this entry in my diary


Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.

* niggers looting * (1.00 / 18) (#32)
by Rampant Rabbit on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:50:19 AM EST



* ANONYMIZED?
* WHY?
* NO FUCKING IDEA.

Ahhhhh.... (1.50 / 2) (#35)
by Sgt York on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:20:25 AM EST

All I read was the first quote, but let me tell you, it did WONDERS for my stress level.

P.S. FUCK YOU, RITA!

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

Oh, btw (none / 1) (#39)
by regeya on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:36:16 PM EST

I realize I antagonize you a lot, but I certainly hope you're either safely in or on your way to Tennessee.

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]

Alas, not this time (none / 0) (#41)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:31:07 PM EST

I decided to ride this one out because the house is weakened by the hole in the attic, but there are things I can do to protect the house and its contents if a problem develops.

About an hour ago I came under a mandatory evacuation, which I'm ignoring because I'm right on the edge and I don't think I'm subject to the risk that inspired the order. I am 12 feet above sea level, which would have been no protection from Katrina's 25-foot storm surge had we taken its east side. This far from Rita's center, we are only expecting a 5 to 7 foot storm surge in the lake. And the local topography tends to drain my property really well once the water gets to a level just about even with the top of my house's foundation.

People in old Mandeville and subdivisions like Old Golden Shores will probably take water again; they're the reason for the mandatory evacuation order. My street might flood but otherwise I'm not too worried.

OTOH there are tornadoes. Then again, it's not a good time to be driving anywhere. Meh. Life is risk. I'll leave a diary or something when it all shakes out.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

No, theres no greenhouse effect (1.00 / 6) (#40)
by kbudha on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:18:35 PM EST

Thats just propaganda spread by the left wing liberal nuts.

Hey Dubya! Get ur head outta ass already.

Yeah (none / 0) (#42)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:31:42 PM EST

When the Greenland ice shelf melts and the sea level goes up 20 feet they'll probably blame it on tairists.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
lol (none / 0) (#46)
by kbudha on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 03:29:58 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Hey, Michael Crichton PROOOOVVVVVVVVED IT!!! (none / 0) (#55)
by your_desired_username on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:53:13 PM EST

People who want Earth to remain a decent place to live are EVIL.

[ Parent ]
No one disputes that the earth is heating up (none / 0) (#59)
by dogeye on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:56:48 PM EST

The important questions are:

1) Is a hotter earth provably worse for hummanity?
2) Can we stop it without damaging the world's economy?

[ Parent ]

You forgot 3) (none / 0) (#60)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:05:40 PM EST

If we don't stop it, is the damage to our economy worse than if we damage our ecnomy taking remedial steps?

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0) (#72)
by dogeye on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 09:24:44 AM EST

I would have included our economy worsening due to environmental damage as bad for humanity. On a side note, I'm extremely skeptical that the world could do anything to stop global warming, that humans are much of a factor in it, or that there is anything wrong with global warming. I guess this sounds like a troll.. oh well.

[ Parent ]
Actually (none / 0) (#119)
by kbudha on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:31:19 PM EST

I've met some Rep-Conservatives who were so far right-wing (as well as mentally challenged) that they seriously believed that the Greenhouse effect as well as the Ozone layer hole were propaganda made up by liberals.

[ Parent ]
You Forgot 4 (none / 0) (#106)
by virg on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 12:19:29 PM EST

4.) Is the trend toward higher temperatures even due to human activity? If not, how would we reverse the trend at all?

Carry on.

Virg
"Imagine (it won't be hard) that most people would prefer seeing Carrot Top beaten to death with a bag of walnuts." - Jmzero
[ Parent ]
tard $ (none / 0) (#75)
by mr strange on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 07:45:29 PM EST



intrigued by your idea that fascism is feminine - livus
[ Parent ]
blah (1.71 / 7) (#43)
by rhiannon on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:53:58 PM EST

You're really milking this one for all it's worth, aren't you?

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
Seems to be working /nt (3.00 / 2) (#44)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:00:57 PM EST



I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Well... (none / 1) (#47)
by TheMgt on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:03:29 PM EST

"The grass was dead, all the trees were down or dead. Everything was covered in mud. Cars were covered in mud, pushed everywhere, on the median, in the yards. Everything that wasn't covered in mud was covered in mold."
Never mind, there'll be plenty of water along shortly to wash it all clean.

No, the water brought the mud (none / 0) (#49)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:44:35 PM EST

It just means there will be twice as much.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Thats not mud... $ (none / 0) (#51)
by Lemon Juice on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:10:51 PM EST



[ Parent ]
The White Man's Response to Katrina: (1.56 / 16) (#50)
by Bloodless Creep on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:36:54 PM EST

"Wow, look at all the damage that's been done to our stuff!"

I realize I'm just pointing out the obvious for those who remember my response to Roger's last story, but there isn't any description of human beings in this article at all.

I'm a little puzzled by the folks who call this piece "compelling." What, exactly, compels you? Are you going to be pausing over your dinner tonight, remembering the heart-rending words of I-59 when it was finally cleared of debris after 6 days of suffering? Personally, I'll have forgotten the details of this report by dinner time. There isn't anything to the piece other than those details, and not one of them has been given a human face.

The title of this comment is a bit of a cheap shot, as I've made the substance of my complaint (or rather, reiterated it) without reference to race.

I do not accuse Roger of racism; there are certainly other reasons that he might have for omitting humanity from his reports, including: detatchment (perhaps as a coping mechanism); a misguided notion of "journalistic professionalism (unlikely, given his stated intention to give a local person's perspective); and insulation— that is, Roger may simply have no personal contact with people whose losses to the storm have been more than material.

That last explanation does of course touch on racial issues, but it does not necessarily make Roger a racist (that would largely depend, I think, on how broad your own personal definition of "racism" is).

Regardless of Roger's reasons, though, this article should make us wonder why it is that some victims of Katrina are astounded most by damaged highway medians, while others are transfixed by the hollowed eyes of a diabetic languishing without emergency insulin supplies.

Kick a man while he's down, won't you? (3.00 / 2) (#52)
by it certainly is on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:20:37 PM EST

That's real nice. Some people lost their houses and jobs, and the nicest thing you can do is dispassionately kvetch about them. "So what if your home's fucked, people are dying in Africa! Get some priorities!"

This link's for you, motherfucker.

For a self-appointed guardian of compassion, you seem remarkably callous yourself.

PS: Stop waffling so much. It's not germane.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Callous? (1.33 / 3) (#53)
by Bloodless Creep on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:39:43 PM EST

And what does that make the third-order kvetcher, eh?

Maybe once you're self-actualized, you don't have to worry about it anymore?

I did describe my own reaction to the disaster, Mr. Isn't, which is more than you've managed to do in all this.

Or is that not germane?

 

PS— My alma mater is Write Like A Dick School, not the lookalike diploma mill Talk Like a Dick School.

[ Parent ]

As you can understand, (none / 0) (#71)
by it certainly is on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 09:13:19 AM EST

I'm not here to make a deposit in the conspicuous compassion bank. If you really must know, I'm like most people; my heart goes out to those affected by this disaster, my fear and awe of nature is renewed and I'm secretly glad it hasn't affected me, my family or my friends.

I post only in the hope that cogent argument will convince you to renege on your personal vendetta against Roger Williams. Why do you go out of your way to attack him?

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Ah, so it *is* germane. (none / 0) (#74)
by Bloodless Creep on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 04:32:38 PM EST

If your furious invective is what you're referring to when you say "cogent argument," then you might want to rethink your approach.

As to your question, well, you already have the answer, don't you?

As I'm sure you're at least dimly aware, your reasons for compulsively responding to my every comment are pretty much the same as my reasons for posting a critical response to one out of every ten or so of localroger's articles.

Incidentally, I'm flattered. Aren't you just a wee bit jealous, having no K5 stalker of your own?

[ Parent ]

The subtle difference (none / 1) (#79)
by it certainly is on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:48:09 AM EST

is that I'm not going out of my way to respond to you - I'm still here on K5 when you're not around and I still chat with people other than you. You don't get "it certainly is has posted 4294 comments" by focusing exclusively on one person.

Secondly, I don't make special accounts designed to mock you. "Bloodless Creep"? Come off it, Ed, that account didn't register itself.

You didn't answer my question, and the answer really isn't that obvious. What brings you back to a website you clearly avoid at all other times, to create a special account just for the occasion and to post invective? It doesn't fit. Come on, you can tell me. Did Roger Williams fuck your dog or something?

This is how far I got with the reasoning myself: you hate Rusty Foster (and no, I don't know why. I'd probably know if I signed up on day 1 of K5, but I didn't and thus don't). Rusty and Roger got chummy and Rusty hosted Roger's novel, created the Fiction queue, etc. Thus you attack whatever you can in Roger as well.

While we're at it, what was with the whole Adequacy family reunion in his last article? Did someone just happen to mention it while you were all sucking each other's dicks?

Knock it off with this "stalker" crap. I'm no stalker and neither are you. You're just a troll with a penchant for histrionics. Tell me, does "intoning your One True Name" not fase you in the slightest, or does it have you screaming like a baby? It seems the answer is "both", whichever reaction serves your purposes at the time.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0) (#80)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 12:23:03 PM EST

That wikitalk thread is hilarious. I had no idea any of that was going on.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Do try to keep up. (none / 0) (#85)
by Bloodless Creep on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 04:18:40 PM EST

You lost track of who was "screaming like a baby" in that old wikipedia thread you're (still) clinging to (and yes, doing compulsive reverse-IP lookups is definitely internet-stalker bahavior).

If you want an answer to your question, you need to examine your own motives first. You're starting (oddly) with Rusty, which is backwards.

No, Mr. Isn't, your dependency on K5 as a social outlet does not make your reasons for criticising me different from my reasons for criticising localroger.

Again, you need to start by examining your own motivation, not by trying to piece together something based on the erroneous assumption that I hate Rusty.

How's about you start by telling us why you chose the username "because it isn't" ?

[ Parent ]

As localroger said, (none / 0) (#101)
by it certainly is on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:12:37 AM EST

"You have several set reactions that you have now used enough that they are sounding like broken records". It's remarkably accurate. It's depressing to see that the years haven't changed you.

You're starting (oddly) with Rusty, which is backwards.

OK, so why is that backwards? Please explain.

the erroneous assumption that I hate Rusty.

OK, so you claim not to hate Rusty. Please continue.

How's about you start by telling us why you chose the username "because it isn't" ?

I believe I asked first, and all you've done is turn the question around to me.

As you know, I registered "because it isn't" on adequacy.org to advertise that it lacked its titular quality. This is a world apart from registering, say, "Ed Slocomb is an asshole". Your insinuated comparison fails it hard. While it gives insight into your character, it's something I already knew about you and doesn't go towards answering my question.

I'm willing to humour you a little, Ed, but I do genuinely want your answer. Why can't you resist going for him? The deal on localroger, please.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Yes, this time, it is all about you. (none / 0) (#108)
by Bloodless Creep on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 12:40:33 PM EST

If I were just repeating set reactions, you'd pay me no more mind than you pay the crapflooders, and you know it.

As I've said before, I don't hate rusty. Rusty knows this— why don't you ask him about it? He's not on the site much, but he does answer his email.

I am very disappointed in him for failing to get the CMF off the ground. He's disappointed in himself for that, too, of course. It's not the same thing as hatred.

As you may know, I didn't coin the name "Bloodless Creep"— localroger did (I'd provide a link, but it seems comment search is even more broken than it used to be; it won't even list archived user comments now). Please direct any further inquiries his way.

You've scratched the surface of your reasons for hounding me; now keep going with it. You chose your alias because you didn't think Adequacy was adequate. You percieved a flaw, and decided to take action. So far, you're describing my motivation for criticising localroger's work, to a T.

Now let's move on to the next step— why did you keep posting on Adequacy, instead of just slapping your rant up and moving on to other things?

[ Parent ]

Howdy (none / 0) (#118)
by it certainly is on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 05:26:04 AM EST

If I were just repeating set reactions, you'd pay me no more mind than you pay the crapflooders, and you know it.

I pay the crapflooders no attention as they're not out for me. You, on the other hand, could either be genuinely talking to me or trying to wind me up. Consider it an honour that I will genuinely assume that you're not trying to wind me up until you've repeated the same thing several times.

I am very disappointed in him for failing to get the CMF off the ground.

Is it just that, you don't like to see a man breaking his promises, or is it because he took money from the community and broke his promise? Does that make it worse?

As you may know, I didn't coin the name "Bloodless Creep"

Indeed. You linked it in your user info just in case anyone didn't know. Comment search works just fine, you just have to tick "search archive". I also recall another account named after localroger's very words, but the name escapes me.

So far, you're describing my motivation for criticising localroger's work, to a T.

But you go further than that. You make personal attacks. You hound him for not marrying and spawning - what the fuck business is that of yours?

why did you keep posting on Adequacy

nathan, jvance and gzt. Now please continue in your exposition as to why you still hound localroger.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Fuck you, Ed. (1.85 / 7) (#54)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:48:03 PM EST

What the fuck is your problem with me? Am I so important to you that you just can't resist resurrecting dead usernames that you created to make fun of me because I got another FP?

I know from your many comments before I decided you were an unperson and stopped replying to you that you have a serious problem with this thing called "reality." You seem to think that the manipulation of words is itself the highest reality. That's a very (ancient) Egyptian view, and it's bullshit. There is, no matter how many adjectives you use, no matter how successfully you humiliate your debate opponents, a real world out there. For all their power in human affairs, words are remarkably worthless against a hurricane.

If there are no people in my reports it's for a simple reason. There aren't many people down here. (E)ddie and (D)ale are real people who have gone through the gates of hell, and it's not me you are mocking with your shitty little attacks, you are mocking them. I hope it makes your dick hard. God knows something pleasant should come out of all of this for somebody.

BTW this is an indiscretion I will not repeat. You are still an unperson. As far as I can tell you are shitty attempt at AI that fails it even worse than the black box in my story Mortal Passage. Since you seem to have no emotions in the normal sense it is a waste of time, including this very comment, to try to prevail upon you to act right. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to unplug you. But I'm sure if you keep acting like this one day you'll meet someone who is.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Hello, localroger. (2.40 / 5) (#57)
by Bloodless Creep on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:49:23 PM EST

"Am I so important to you that you just can't resist resurrecting dead usernames that you created to make fun of me because I got another FP?"

As you are perfectly well aware, Roger, I don't "make fun" of you just because you get a story posted. I criticise your work when I think it's important (and there was an awfully long stretch before the hurricane when I didn't think it was important), and I offer some speculation as to why the work might be flawed in the ways I describe.

"I decided you were an unperson"

That's exactly the sort of mental maneuver that has caused all the problems for the poor in New Orleans, though, isn't it? I doubt it has been deliberate, as in your case, but it is very clear from the reactions to the looters (read: black folk) that many Americans harbor a view of the world in which "those people" simply aren't really full-class humans.

I at least have the decency to try to understand you, Roger, instead of simply demonizing you. "Un-personing" you would be a lot easier, I suspect, (and it appears it would gratify Mr. Isn't) but I find such a worldview intellectually unsatisfying, as well as morally repugnant.

"You seem to think that the manipulation of words is itself the highest reality."

I'd tread lightly there, Mr. "I have an FP article and you don't."

"If there are no people in my reports it's for a simple reason. There aren't many people down here."

Oh, but there are. And all of us at K5 know there are (and were) people down there, because, you see, we have seen them on television. Now, it's possible that there aren't many people in your neighborhood. Perhaps your neighbors are members of the middle class, and were all able to evacuate— that could explain why you don't wonder whether or not they're safe.

"(E)ddie and (D)ale are real people who have gone through the gates of hell, and it's not me you are mocking with your shitty little attacks, you are mocking them."

Roger, I don't know Eddie and Dale. I can't be mocking them, because you still haven't told us anything about them. Think about it. They're there. Are they merely witnesses to material damage, or are they people? What are the human elements of these "gates of hell" they have gone through?

I'm pretty sure now that you're distancing yourself from the human dimension of the disaster as a means of coping with it. And that's not a bad thing. It certainly explains your lashing out at someone who points out the fact that your reporting looks pretty weird to those of us who are focussed more on the people of New Orleans than the roads.

Go on with your job, I know there's a lot of work to be done, and you'll be able to bury yourself in it for a while. That is a healthy means of coping, much more so than publishing on the site where you know you will find all of the fans of your writing, in addition to a lot of people who don't assume you are perfect, some of whom are inclined to be a lot nastier than I've been.

I know you don't believe it, but I do hope you get through all of this, because you, just as much as any of the faces on television, are a real, live, human being, complete with real, live human failings.

[ Parent ]

Well that took awhile. (1.14 / 7) (#58)
by localroger on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:55:21 PM EST

I do hope you get through all of this, because you, just as much as any of the faces on television, are a real, live, human being, complete with real, live human failings.

Unlike you, I suppose.

Bye, Ed. Nice not knowing you.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Whoops. (2.33 / 3) (#61)
by Bloodless Creep on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:23:33 PM EST

So much for the "I'm taking my ball and going home" gambit.

Yes, I tend to forgive my own failings, too, once I've recognized them.

But that first step, it's a doozy, isn't it?

[ Parent ]

haha (none / 0) (#68)
by rhiannon on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 02:05:55 AM EST

"You seem to think that the manipulation of words is itself the highest reality." That one made me laugh.

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
A subject for my comment. (none / 1) (#78)
by FieryTaco on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:24:46 AM EST

That's exactly the sort of mental maneuver that has caused all the problems for the poor in New Orleans, though, isn't it?
No. The kind of mental maneuver that caused the problems for the poor in New Orleans was them convincing themselves that it is someone else's responsibility to take care of them when shit happens. They don't manage their lives well. The bullshit cry that they live paycheck to paycheck and are unable to put a little aside for a rainy day falls apart in the face of the fact that the predominant characteristic that leaps right out at you when seeing them on TV is that they're all fat. If you've got enough to expand out to twice your healthy body weight, a little intelligent thinking would allow you to improve your lot. But it's easier to maintain that mental state of a fifteen year old, where you are old enough to make your own decisions but you run to mommy and daddy everytime your stupid decisions light your underwear on fire. Why don't they try thinking about how they would like their lives to be in five years rather than whatever physical urge they want to satisfy in the next five minutes.

[ Parent ]
Gimme a break (none / 1) (#83)
by Witchey on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:26:59 PM EST

Wow, you really handle on the poor. Who knew that the real resaon people are poor is because they're fat?! Perhaps Nancy Reagan should start a campaign to combat poverty and call it "Just stop eating!:

[ Parent ]
Tasty prostitues (none / 1) (#98)
by FieryTaco on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 11:35:08 PM EST

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or do you believe in the nanny state so desperately that any suggestion that people might be responsible for the state of their own lives causes you to collapse into some irrational "fight or flight" reflex?

The fact that all these paycheck-to-paycheck poor people are overweight shows that they are people taking in more than they need. Nobody ever got fat toiling away on the job and living on vegetables from their rooftop gardens.

If you could wave a magic wand and eliminate poor impulse control and short term thinking, you would go a long way to eliminating poverty.



[ Parent ]

real way to "end" poverty (none / 0) (#111)
by Rhodes on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:41:09 PM EST

don't report on it. other ways a) reduce taxes for the rich so low they can build better "communities" that are far away from poor people b) the reduced tax base will ensure that more and more services get cut c) saving for rainy days is great unless 1) every day is rainy (both metaphoically, and liternally) 2) you don't have a good way to get to a job that will allow you to save for the rainy day

[ Parent ]
My comprehension is fine, thanks for asking (none / 0) (#113)
by Witchey on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:13:06 PM EST

Not all poor people are fat. What about the skinny ones -- is it okay to help them?

Has it occurred to you that perhaps it is cheaper to feed yourself with a 99 cent value meal from a fast-food restaurant? Which contain hundreds of calories and little real nutrition. I don't think it's that these people you are talking about eat too much; it's that the food they can best afford is loaded with empty calories. There are other factors that come into play, such as convenience, available time, routine, etc.

Of course people have responsibility for their own lives. But doesn't society have responsibilites as well? Especially when a disaster of this magnitude happens? The social contract provides that we submit to the laws of the society in exchange for some safeguards provided by the government.

Eliminating poor impluse control and short-sightedness would rid this world of a variety of undesirable conditions. But I'm not sure poverty is one of them.

[ Parent ]

Boobies. (none / 0) (#115)
by FieryTaco on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:36:40 PM EST

You are imagining things if you think that people are getting hundreds of extra calories on a daily basis by living "economically" on the 99 cent value meals. A quick examination of the nutrition facts provided on McDonalds, Wendys and Taco Bell's websites and it is obvious that in order to hit 2300+ calories a day you're going to be spending $6.00 or $7.00 on a daily basis. You can spend less than that and eat healthy if you decide to try.
Eliminating poor impluse control and short-sightedness would rid this world of a variety of undesirable conditions. But I'm not sure poverty is one of them.
I don't think that I said it would rid the world of poverty. Said it would go a long ways towards eliminating it.

[ Parent ]
But I really am curious (none / 0) (#116)
by Witchey on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:47:06 PM EST

as to where you stand regarding aid to skinny poor people. I gotta know.

[ Parent ]
tick-tock-tick-tock (none / 0) (#67)
by Smokin Juan on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 01:14:08 AM EST

while others are transfixed by the hollowed eyes of a diabetic languishing without emergency insulin supplies.

Then go back to watching your godamn TV you fucking idiot.



[ Parent ]
please stop. (1.00 / 15) (#56)
by Harvey Anderson on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:05:28 PM EST

please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

Just Let The Man Write... (2.25 / 4) (#63)
by kenmce on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:02:29 PM EST

Why is it that LR can't can't post *anything* without some wankers coming around and whining about how poorly he did it? OK, so he only has a few holes in his house, and people mostly keep stepping over his Kuro5hin line. big deal. Stop complaining about someone who can actually write clear coherent prose about something interesting. If you can do better, put it in the que. Just let the man write already...

Second time. (none / 0) (#77)
by FieryTaco on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:08:39 AM EST

This will be the second time in this story where I step on the man, but the reasons I find his stories worth reviling are primarily two-fold. The first reason I already mentioned in another post and I'm not going to bother rewriting it. The second reason is that his stories can always be expressed in two-year-old-ese as "Hey look at me. Me. Me. Me. I made poo poo. Look at me." He should spend about three days thinking about his subjects before putting fingers to keyboard and he should try writing about something that isn't about himself and doesn't needlessly attempt to diddle the reader's emotions. I am betting that somewhere along the line somebody bought him "Rhetoric and Propaganda for Dummies."

[ Parent ]
FieryTaco has posted 251 comments, 0 stories, and (none / 1) (#82)
by brain in a jar on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:20:31 PM EST

0 diaries.

Contribute, or STFU.


Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

Chowder. (none / 0) (#88)
by FieryTaco on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 06:02:53 PM EST

Comments are as valid a form of contribution as writing logically inconsistent, error riddled, third grade literacy level articles.

[ Parent ]
Prisoners in New Orleans (2.00 / 5) (#65)
by guidoreichstadter on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 12:52:04 AM EST

city jail were abandoned


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
Purging (1.40 / 5) (#66)
by guidoreichstadter on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 12:53:10 AM EST

the poor


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
The poor (none / 0) (#81)
by Witchey on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:04:25 PM EST

Thank you for the link to that article. It is informative and scary.

[ Parent ]
The Spin machine is running at full tilt... (2.83 / 6) (#69)
by brain in a jar on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 02:36:49 AM EST

So, a new scientific study comes out with fairly strong statistical evidence that hurricanes and tropical storms are becoming more intense due to global warming.

The trend is global, and is not restricted to the Atlantic, in fact the authors state that:

"The largest increase [in mean hurricane and tropical storm intensity] occurred in the North Pacific, Indian, and Southwest Pacific Oceans, and the smallest percentage increase occurred in the North Atlantic Ocean."

Despite this the NOAA and CNN are still telling the public that any increase in hurricane intensity is most likely due to the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO also sometimes called the North Atlantic Oscillation NAO). A long term cycle in ocean currents in the Atlantic, which is thought to drive changes in sea surface temperatures, and therefore in hurricane intensity.

Also in the CNN article their source is quick to point out that:

Even Katrina's and Rita's back-to-back pounding of the Gulf Coast has a precedent. In 1915, Gray said, New Orleans and Houston areas were hit by Category 4 storms six weeks apart.

"You can't blame that on global warming," he observed.

Which looks rather like deliberately missing the point. The climatologist who CNN quotes knows that it is impossible to tie any single event or indeed any pair of events to climate change, the system is too chaotic. But what he fails to mentions is that such events are now more likely than they were in the past and will therefore happen more often.

To quote the study in science:

"Hurricanes in the strongest categories (4 + 5) have almost doubled in number (50 per pentad in the 1970s to near 90 per pentad during the past decade) and in proportion (from around 20% to around 35% during the same period). These changes occur in all of the ocean basins."

Despite this evidence the NOAA are still on record today as saying:

"Our position is the recent increase in hurricane activity is not caused by global warming."

Whether they know it or not (and I suspect they do) they are overstating their case. The AMO probably does explain the increased number of atlantic hurricanes, and some portion of their increased intensity, but there is evidence that climate change (specifically increases in sea surface temperatures) also has a significant influence and it is being ignored.

The NOAA National hurricane centre lists the following as its mission statement:

To save lives, mitigate property loss, and improve economic efficiency by issuing the best watches, warnings,forecasts and analyses of hazardous tropical weather, and by increasing understanding of these hazards.

This seems at odds with their present behavior, downplaying the influence of human induced climate change on hurricane intensity. There is now sufficient evidence to suggest that we can "save lives and property" if timely action is taken to reduce emissions of greenhouse gasses. It remains to be seen if the NOAA, will be brave enough to tell us.


Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.

NOAA (none / 1) (#96)
by vile on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 10:50:31 PM EST

So, which one of George's friends runs this office?

~
The money is in the treatment, not the cure.
[ Parent ]
Is it just me? (2.66 / 3) (#70)
by Jebediah on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 04:02:15 AM EST

Is it just me or does localroger, while a good writer, raise some flags? Lack of people, things just working a little too right? O well, at least somebody gets their stuff FP.

Egads (2.50 / 2) (#76)
by FieryTaco on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 01:44:36 AM EST

No. He just demonstrates an increasing problem in the world: People have the belief that having good literary skills equates with being intelligent.

Roge frequentyly exhibits exceptionally shallow thinking in his writing. He is quite good at putting words one after another, but he is fairly poor at putting ideas one after another in the same fashion.

Typically, instead of supporting his thesis he asserts truth or correctness and moves on to the next thought. And disconcertingly often, the second idea wouldn't follow regardless of the first's truth or falsehood (See his story about how Orson Scott Card's character Ender is really Hitler and therefore Roge was lured to a convention where he was the guest of honor at an ass kicking.)

It's he learned all the big words and never took the time to learn to think.

But I could be wrong. Or not.

[ Parent ]

Tastee Donut! (1.66 / 3) (#73)
by Back Spaced on Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 11:40:20 AM EST

Christ, I would kill for a Tastee Donut! I had forgotten all about them! Why do I have to be stuck out here in the desert... why... why... Oh yeah. No floods.

Bluto: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
Otter: Better listen to him, Flounder. He's pre-med.

Keep writing, dude (3.00 / 3) (#84)
by Witchey on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 02:41:03 PM EST

I like your stories, Roger (may I call you Roger?); they are well-written enough to keep me reading until the end. I am new to K5 and don't quite understand why you get such vitriolic comments from some, but they did make me laugh as they devolved into bickering.

Some have pointed out that there are no other people in your writings, that it's all about you. Many essayists write in this manner; exploring their own experiences and emotions, trying to make sense of what they see and feel. It is not supposed to be a news account.

Thanks (2.40 / 5) (#86)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 04:41:54 PM EST

You may indeed call me Roger. Unlike some people, I decided to make my real name public when I web-published my novel. Fortunately, again unlike some people, I haven't ever said anything here that I'm so ashamed of it would scare me to have my real identity associated with it.

There is a weird kind of Internet Wild West culture going on here; it's really a big experiment in free expression and while I've always suspected it might end badly, I'm very interested in how it will work out.

The reason there are no people in my recent writings is that there aren't a hell of a lot of people left in New Orleans at all right now. The ones who are are extremely preoccupied with their stuff, how much of it they can save and what they have to do to save it. The kvetchers who are complaining about that shift gears depending on what they think will generate a reaction; a year ago Ed was twisting my words to make me look like a Fascist, and before that he was trying to make it look like I was some kind of con man selling snake oil to my K5 "marks." It's a shame; Ed is a smart guy who is in many ways better educated than I am, and if he chose to use his talent to do things that make people feel better he would probably be very good at it. But he finds it more entertaining to "wind people up." Alas, the humanity.

Enjoy your stay here; it's a wild place but sometimes we get some very, very good stuff posted (and I am NOT just talking about my own stuff :-). Just remember that there are essentially no laws or rules here, and there are people who think it is the height of humor to abuse that and make random strangers pull their hair out. Understand their game, tough them out, and you will find that the environment also encourages some damn good writing.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Whoops again. (none / 1) (#87)
by Bloodless Creep on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 05:26:54 PM EST

You're really bad at taking your ball and going home, localroger.

This is why threaded discussion blogs have bigger audiences than ones with flat comments. It's not that there are people who "simply must have the last word;" though that's a very popular insult, it gets the analysis wrong.

When there's an involved argument going on, it's not the urge to get the last word that keeps people posting, it's the urge to respond.

There are a lot of things that can feed that urge, but a primary one is the need to reiterate a deeply held conviction (e.g.: "Ed is Eeee-vil") in the face of arguments suggesting another possibility (e.g.: "perhaps my sense of empathy, and consequently my writing, is flawed with distortions and gaps to which I have been largely oblivious").

[ Parent ]

Well to continue "whoopsing" (3.00 / 3) (#89)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 06:31:28 PM EST

Yeah, you got a point. A very teeny point but a point nonetheless.

I had no idea what a hardon you had for me until I read the wikitalk thread that ISI linked. Great freaking Bob don't you have a life? I had no idea so much energy was being expended in my humble name. You know, it really means that I have pwn3d you without even trying. I had no idea.

I believe that human beings are basically pretty simple and that human patterns of behavior repeat themselves, like fractal features, at different scales. Studying murderers and sex perverts is revealing in the same way that studying the desert is for ecologists; in extreme conditions the chaos is stripped away and you see things in their purest form. And this is why I persist in applying the patterns of serial murderers to people like you. You are similar but at different scales. You are too chickenshit to actually kill anybody but the patterns that motivate you are actually very similar to those that animate people like Son of Sam and, more recently, BTK. It's not about killing people; it's about *ATTRACTING ATTENTION TO YOU*.

Paraphrasing, because I'm too lazy to look it up, didn't you once ask that if trolling a depressed teenager who might kill himself was bad, wouldn't it then be OK to troll *me* since I'm a fortyish somewhat successful guy with no obvious tendency to suicide? Why do you think it is OK to make *anybody* else feel bad just to entertain yourself?

You know, I have always admired you skill with words and your education. I tried many times to offer an olive branch but all I ever saw in return was claws. My wife is an animal lover, and one lesson from her has struck home: When an animal (and humans are animals) does not respond to appeasement signals it is seriously fucked up and best put down. It is mad. And that is what I decided was wrong with you. You have trained yourself to be so antisocial that it is unsafe to deal with you at any level, because you cannot be trusted. Apparently, from the e-mails I have received, I am not the only one who feels that way about you.

This is, incidentally, the message Rusty put out by outing NIWS/Jason. It ain't complicated; the dude ain't right. Normal people understand this and all they need is the information to make an informed decision.

My education is not in the liberal arts, and I quit the debate team after two days when I realized I would be required to argue for things I knew were not true according to my own beliefs. While I have taken philosophy 101 and I do know how shaky the standards are, my training does assume there is an underlying reality we are striving to understand and use. And manipulating words to fuck people up because they aren't as clever as you just doesn't sit well with that part of my philosophy. Yeah, it works, just ask Karl Rove. But ultimately you meet a reality your words cannot cancel out. Again, ask Karl Rove. Katrina is eating his lunch. Check out the Tim Russert / Aaron Broussard interview for a very clear example.

I have never wanted to be your enemy. I have done everything possible to avoid it and you shoved it back in my face smeared with shit. I have dealt, in real life, with people whom I know would have quietly slit my throat and buried me in a local bayou if they knew my real political beliefs. I just don't get what the fuck is wrong with you. You have trained yourself to be something that isn't really human any more. I guess you have actually trumped Fen.

If I knew you in real life, I would not trust you with anything important to me. Apparently a lot of people who actually do know you in real life feel the same way. That is not a triumph, Ed. You have thrown away at least one potential ally -- me -- and Bob knows how many others. That isn't a smart move. You're a smart person, but you're acting like a dangerous animal armed with the smarts of a smart person. How long do you think it will be before you exercise one of those online reflexes in RL by accident? Or someone like Vlad will hunt you down because, like me, he doesn't respect that arbitrary line you think exists between online and RL?

By the way, everything you say about me is true. So what? :-)

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Dude... (none / 1) (#90)
by Bloodless Creep on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 07:42:48 PM EST

...ICI got his attribution wrong. You've got it wrong. Yes, I did make a couple of edits to the AST article on wikipedia one night, but that's it. I don't know who wrote the article, and wasn't even aware of it until someone brought it to my attention that ICI and someone else, probably the author, were wrestling over the thing, and I thought it would be fun to change a sentence or two in the article. That's all I did— I had no part in the discussion ICI linked to.

Make sure you've got your facts right before you go building your reality on top of them. You've made this sort of mistake before-- remember when you thought you'd need to learn Spanish to travel to Jamaica, or when you thought aphrael couldn't possibly be male, because he had a boyfriend?

Comparing people who criticize you to serial killers isn't making you look like the acme of rationality, either, localroger.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad just to entertain myself. I'm trying to make you feel bad so you'll correct some of the flaws in yourself that produce flaws in your writing.

Give me a break, man. You've never offered an olive branch, and you know it. Or is calling a person unhuman (or comparing him to a serial killer, or to an animal that needs to be put down) your idea of an "olive branch?"

"...and I quit the debate team after two days when I realized I would be required to argue for things I knew were not true according to my own beliefs."

That is precisely where you stood to learn most from the debate team, localroger. This might be the most telling thing you've ever posted to K5.

If we were arguing physics or engineering, I'd agree with you 100%, there is indeed "an underlying reality we are trying to understand and use." But we are not dealing with the hard sciences here, we are dealing with psychology and morality, and in these realms, you can't appeal to an "underlying reality" in the same way, not unless it's one that exists in your own head, like that weird model you have of serial killers; you don't seem to realize that the defining characteristic of the sociopath is a lack of empathy. If I lacked empathy, localroger, I wouldn't be able to touch those rather raw nerves of yours in my criticism of your writing.

If I was merely weaving words into clever insults, you wouldn't spend any more time on me than you spend on circletimessquare or rmg or whoever else is honing the art of the insult around here these days. But I'm different. I'm actually getting through to you.

You always seem to resort to vague threats of a physically violent comeuppance in The Real World at the end our arguments. Contrary to what you seem to believe, you've never recieved email from anyone who's met me in real life (that's right, ICI has never met me). I've lived a long and happy life so far. I've never been the sort who gets into bar fights, and I've been in a lot of different bars talking to a lot of different kinds of people, friends and strangers alike, debating all sorts of things, even the sorts of things that you're not supposed to talk about in a bar, all without a hint of violence. I'm not worried at all, you see, because I'm nothing like the imaginary person you've constructed to represent me in your mind.

I'd prefer it, though, if you'd drop the oblique threats of physical violence, from now on. Not all of us live by the Male Southerner's Code, and I'd consider it a sign of progress if you'd respect that difference.

[ Parent ]

Interesting, if not very convincing (none / 1) (#91)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 08:39:33 PM EST

It think I will wait to see what ISI says about this. Unfortunately for you, his version passes the smell test a lot better than yours.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
You do see the irony in that, don't you? (none / 1) (#94)
by Bloodless Creep on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:39:38 PM EST

I mean, he's stalking me a lot harder than I'm stalking you.

He's the one, after all, who tracked down my real name and posted it triumphantly in a K5 diary, apparently believing that it would... I don't know, make me turn into a mute puddle of smoking contrition, or something. That's not normal-person behavior, regardless of whether you think it was right or wrong.

Go browse the Adequacy archive, if you want some background on ICI's obsession with me (he was "because it isn't" on AQ). He wasn't always like this, and I'm not sure how it happened, but toward the end of AQ, and ever since on K5, he's reliably posted an angry response every time I've so much as burped.

I think he likes me :)

[ Parent ]

Hey Ed (2.00 / 2) (#95)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:48:22 PM EST

My name is Roger Williams. I am the proud owner of the "localroger" franchise on kuro5hin.org. I am not ashamed of anything I have ever posted here, even my disastrously wrong-headed idea for a search engine and even my voted-down story The Mitigator Strike which I made sure had a home on the web that could be linked to me.

I have never had a death threat because of my activity here.

My employer and friends all know about my sexually fucked up online novel.

Stand before me as I stand before you now, or shut the fuck up.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Your point? (2.00 / 2) (#99)
by Bloodless Creep on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 12:55:55 AM EST

I know your name, and you know mine. Like you, I was initially anonymous in the internet. Like you, I am no longer so (and I made that decision a long, long time ago, as ICI has so helpfully pointed out). Like you, I continue to post under an alias, instead of my real name.

In what way am I failing to "stand before you?" Is there some clause of the Southern Male Code that I'm failing to live up to, here? If so, could you please explain it to me?

[ Parent ]

A slight difference (none / 1) (#102)
by localroger on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:31:45 AM EST

Like you, I am no longer so (and I made that decision a long, long time ago, as ICI has so helpfully pointed out).

Um, no, you didn't make the decision to be un-anonymous; as you have whined very recently ICI made it for you by posting your real name.

I made the decision to go public myself. Nobody had to track me down. When I published my novel I decided I wanted my real name on it, and I decided the freedom of being anonymous wasn't as important as being able to claim my work as my own.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Wrong. (none / 1) (#103)
by Bloodless Creep on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:35:01 AM EST

Either you're not paying attention, or you're once again seeing only what you want to believe, without troubling yourself with the details.

I haven't been whinging about ICI digging up my self-unmasking on Slashdot ages ago— I've been calling him a fool for trumpeting it. There's a difference, you see.

I did make that decision. I made it long before you did, and though I can't recall my reasons at the time (I seem to dimly recall a copyright debate), I'm pretty sure I didn't move only when my own vanity forced my hand.

There are novels being published under pseudonyms as we speak, are there not?

[ Parent ]

Nice re-frame (none / 0) (#104)
by localroger on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:16:31 AM EST

It's almost possible to read this comment and forget the whining about death threats in that wikitalk thread ICI linked.

"Vanity forced my hand?" I have to admit that is absolutely brilliant. Completely meaningless, yet so sleazy-sounding. Tim Russert should give it up and let you do the next interview with Aaron Broussard.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Dude. (none / 0) (#105)
by Bloodless Creep on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:27:43 AM EST

Once again: that's not me in the damned wikitalk thread you've got such a boner for.

If you had reasons other than vanity for your decision, go ahead and tell us about them, Mr. "re-frame."

[ Parent ]

LOL (none / 1) (#112)
by localroger on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:26:45 PM EST

go ahead and tell us about them, Mr. "re-frame."

You realize that if I was like you, this would be posted from an account named "Mr. Re-Frame," don't you? There are several reasons I didn't bother to do that. Since I'm bored and my wife is still in Tennessee I think I'll enumerate them.

  1. It would be a cheap shot.
  2. I like being able to find my own comments under a single account. Dupes are a PITA.
  3. I wouldn't want people to think I am too chickenshit to stand by my own words.
  4. I'm too lazy.
  5. If I was caught, say, with a stash of used women's panties, I wouldn't consider it an effective defense of my behavior to put the panties on my head and run around yelling "so what!"
  6. To name something is to have power over it. That's why the authors of Genesis get so het up about humans being allowed to name the other animals. To accept your name for me would blatantly acknowledge that you have power over me.
As for my reasons, they don't matter. That's just the frame you built around the raw fact that circumstances beyond your control forced you to link your RL and online personalities, while my decision was entirely voluntary. When you say "Vanity forced me" all you are doing is using a cheap rhetorical trick to make something sound like the opposite of what it really is.

As for your insistence that it's not you in that wikitalk thread, I'd put that on Fark under the "unlikely" tag. It sure sounds like you, and people who know you much better than I do and who were participants think it was you. Since you have already proven at great length to have no integrity, Occam's Razor would suggest you are lying.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Wow, (none / 0) (#120)
by it certainly is on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 02:41:12 PM EST

I should really read other threads too.

The mysterious Mr/Mrs 209.204.160.47 remains mysterious, despite using Ed's trademark mannerisms. It could easily be someone pretending to act just like Ed, as part of some elaborate trick.

Those edits in full:

  • 209: bitch about localroger
  • 209: remove section on Ed's activities
  • Ed: bitch about localroger & restore removed section
  • 209: remove controversial sections in full
  • Ed: remove Ed's name
  • Ed: bitch about localroger
  • Ed: bitch about localroger
Now, this is the fun part. I added a talk comment beginning "Ed keeps adding in snide remarks", referring to latter two edits definitely made by Ed (edslocomb.net - if you're going to accuse someone of saying something, fucking well check your facts first). I then got a response from Mr/Mrs 209 saying "I'm not Ed". Why would Mr/Mrs 209 feel the need to pipe up about edits made by edslocomb.net?

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Oh, BTW (none / 1) (#92)
by localroger on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:24:01 PM EST

Give me a break, man. You've never offered an olive branch, and you know it.

Actually one was embedded in this parent post. As usual, you didn't recognize it for what it was or didn't care, because attacking me was more important to you.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

Maybe it doesn't count... (none / 1) (#93)
by Bloodless Creep on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 09:38:08 PM EST

...when you coat it with shit, such as comparing me to an animal that needs to be put down?

[ Parent ]
It's Mom (2.66 / 3) (#97)
by Witchey on Sun Sep 25, 2005 at 10:55:09 PM EST

I thought my post was the parent here... Help, my children are out of control!

Sorry, just trying to lighten things up a bit.

You guys are spending a lot of energy on this and it's getting a little nasty.
So I'm just going to step on back out of the way again.

[ Parent ]

drip drip drip (none / 1) (#100)
by your_desired_username on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:22:17 AM EST

that's the sound of your belief in populism.

bleeding away ...

[ Parent ]

There are no people in roger's writing because (2.50 / 2) (#114)
by your_desired_username on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:30:09 PM EST

he knows only too well the deep-seated inhumanity of k5's audience.

[ Parent ]
After following this thread (none / 0) (#117)
by Witchey on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:12:06 PM EST

I believe you have a point. But, like a car accident, it can be fun to watch. ...Hey, I may just fit in here, yet. I'll probably need to work on that populism thing, though...

[ Parent ]
Devastation | 122 comments (115 topical, 7 editorial, 0 hidden)
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