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Spousal Abuse: guns, fists and words

By moondancer in Culture
Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:00:00 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)

The rain and hail pelted down so hard that it was a wonder the windows did not break. Lightning flashed, displaying a brilliant show in the darkened skies above. The wind howled, attempting to move the car into the open, away from the safety of the surrounding bushes where we were parked.

My two young children, ages 3 and 4, were asleep on the back seat, curled up in their blankets, little angels with not a care in the world. The dog was sitting on the passenger side of the front seat, like a sentinel, nose pressed against the window, looking out into the night. I was sitting in the drivers seat hoping my broken nose and fractured cheekbone would soon heal.

Sitting back and watching the lightning dance brightly around the sky and listening to the rain beating down, the wind tossing my thoughts around, my mind returned to the early days of my marriage and I wondered what had gone wrong.

Getting married was very important in the early 60's. Most friends were getting married and I guess I did not want to be "different" and end up as the "old maid." I never really thought about age, but most of my friends were at least a couple of years older than I was.

My marriage started out as most others I knew. It was a whirlwind romance. I had met my soon to be husband in October, became engaged in November and married in December, two days before my 18th birthday. My parents did not object to our marriage, well, not too much anyway. They knew if they disallowed us to get married, we would most likely just elope as one of my girlfriends did. They knew me well!

Our married life together was wonderful for the first year and a half. Our first child, a daughter, was born a year after we were married. Following birth, I had expected to go back to work, but my husband did not want me to. He had felt that I should stay home with our baby and be a "real mother" as he would be able to "look after" us financially. At the time, this sounded fine with me. Being the early 60s, a lot of families only had one parent working to support the household. But as time went on, I felt it was a way for him to have control over my life.

The Onset Of Hell

I had one girlfriend we used to call "clumsy" as she was always getting bruised about her face and/or hands. The only explanation we got was the old classic of walking into doors in the middle of the night or fell down the stairs. She was a happy go lucky lady, never complained about anything - when her husband wasn't around. When he was next to her, she was very quiet and never said a word. Everyone knew that things were not good for her. I had tried talking to her about this one time, but she denied everything and said we were all paranoid but her. A few months later, she had committed suicide. No letter was ever found as to the reason why.

Another friend, who was a macho biker who played hard and rode hard, also committed suicide shortly after. He did leave a letter that stated he could not take the beatings anymore from his wife. No one ever knew what he went through. Being a biker, all the bruises and broken bones were thought to be caused by riding his Harley, so it was never questioned. Apparently, she usually waited until he was asleep and hit him with baseball bats or cast iron fry pans.

Spousal Abuse, a subject not readily discussed in the early to late sixties. In fact, the term "spousal abuse" was not used until the late 70's. When one noticed a friend with a bruise or broken bone, you believed their explanation of a car accident or the like. Deep down inside, you knew it was abuse by their partner but you never questioned this as it could become much worse for them.

By this time, I had given birth to my second child. The control by my husband had gotten worse since the suicides. I was timed going to the store in the evening. I had to give an explanation as to why it took longer than he figured it should. I had to report to him everyone I had run into or met at the store or on the way. Then the beatings started.

As he held the purse strings, he would give me $20.00 a week to buy groceries and other necessities. Buying baby food was expensive enough but to have to buy clothing and other things was about impossible. My mother at that time helped me out a lot with buying groceries and clothes. I just told her that my husband did not make enough money to support us all. I could not bring myself to tell mom about the treatment I was getting at home from him. I guess I just didn't want to be labeled a "loser".

I remember one time I was ironing his shirt for work - or so I thought it was for work. All of a sudden he grabbed the shirt off the ironing board, slapped me across the face, threw the iron on the cupboard and was strangling me. He told me I was not ironing it properly and he didn't want to be embarrassed to be seen in a rumpled shirt. Needless to say, I re-ironed the shirt and out he went. At least when he went out, it was peaceful in the house.

Another time there just was not enough food in the house for our children. I had in the past made flour and water pancakes for them, but tonight I felt they needed some real food. I went outside and took two of their pet rabbits, chopped their heads off, skinned them and made baked rabbit. I had told them that the rabbits must have been stolen. They ate heartily that night. Needless to say, I did not eat. This was the worse thing I had done in my life, but I could not let my children starve.

My husband had quite the reputation as a lady's man around town. Girlfriends of his would phone the house and had the guts to leave messages for him. I often wrote them down and gave them to him. One night, I needed milk for the baby and went to find him. I found him in one of the lounges with a girl and asked him for a dollar so I could get some milk. He tossed it on the floor. By now I was seeing red. I turned their table upside down and told him to go to hell and pick his own money up off the floor. I left knowing I would get a good beating later on when he came home. And I did.

Another time, a friend of his and his wife came to play cards one night. Well, in the middle of the game I all of a sudden got a punch to the face and knocked off my chair. The other couple got up and left! I guess they didn't want to interfere. He continued hitting on me, breaking my glasses and nose and putting me through the wall. I ran from the house in sock feet and no jacket. It was the middle of a cold winter. I ran down the street to a lady's house and knocked on her door. She let me in. I explained what was going on and she took me to her friends place so that he would not find me. I was there for two days.

I had nowhere to go so I went home, such as it was. He was not there at the time, only a babysitter was. I decided enough was enough that I would tell my mom all about it and hopefully find a place for the kids and myself. Well, before I finished packing some clothes for us, in the door he came - with a rifle. He beat on me first then I was told to sit on the couch, so I took my two children and sat on the couch. He said there were three bullets in the rifle, one for each child and me, so I best not move! He had been drinking and I was very afraid. I did not like guns of any kind. I sat with my small children for 7 hours, not moving a muscle. He finally passed out and I took the rifle outside and broke it to pieces. I then grabbed the children, their clothes and blankets and dog, and ran to the car and away we went. We parked on the side of the cemetery in the bushes, and then the thunderstorm began.

A New Start

After sitting out in the bushes for a couple of days, my children were getting restless and wanted to go home. I decided that we would go home and I would have a talk with my husband and see if we could work things out. I did not want any more beatings.

When we got home, he was there with a smirk on his face. I told him I came to talk and there would be no more beatings. He agreed to talk. And talk we did. We decided to try again to make this marriage work. He of course apologized for being cruel. I took him at his word.

Things did go well for about six months, then one night he did not come home. My dad had passed away that morning and I needed to find him. I went looking for him and found him at a party. It wasn't that he was at a party, but he was at my sister's place at a party, with her! I found him in her bed with her and another of her friends. Well, needless to say, that was the end of this marriage.

The End of a New Beginning

Dad's funeral was very sad. I could not look at my sister knowing how she had mistreated me. My husband was not at the funeral. I had told mom all about the life I had been living and that I was now on my own. She said she would help me wherever possible.

I found a new place to live with my children with a school right across the street. I found work in a lounge and worked nights. I had a wonderful babysitter and no worries, or so I thought.

Two years later, I went home from work one night and my children were gone and their clothes and toys, the dog was gone, the bird was gone, my photo albums were gone and even my furniture was gone. Everything was gone! I phoned the babysitter and she told me my husband had come and taken the children as I told him he could. I phoned the police and they said there were no custody papers so they could do nothing.

Well, $20,000 and many court cases later, I found my children. The courts awarded him custody as he had the children with him for five years. It was a sad day for me.

He didn't have them a month, and social services took them away from him for abuse. I had to reapply for custody, which took more money and time.

My children finally made it "home" to me!! They are now married and have children of their own and have done quite well with their lives. My ex-husband passed away about five years ago, a very lonely and sad man.

There are many more events in my life story with this man but it would take realms of paper and lots of ink to explain it all. All this happened within an eight year old marriage. I divorced him in 1970 and have been alone since.

I am not bitter and carry no hate. I feel all my experiences have made me a better person. I have learned a lot and have worked closely with others who are/were going through the same kinds of abuse.

My mother passed away not long ago and there are times I feel very alone. But I count my blessings that I have wonderful children and grandchildren and the best friends in this world. And friends really DO count!!

Life is too short to be lived in a prison. It must be relished. Enjoy the little things in life, those are what count. It is hoped that my story will help others to find the help they need to get out of an abusive situation before it is too late. Speak to you Doctor, your Pastor or Priest, your neighbour, anyone that can help you. There is help available and it is important to get that help while you are still able to! Life will be lonely for awhile, but it does get easier, much easier. Take the chance on life!

Domestic Violence information answers your questions and may save your life.


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Spousal Abuse: guns, fists and words | 128 comments (74 topical, 54 editorial, 1 hidden)
Sadly fairly normal. (2.58 / 12) (#2)
by jd on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 12:41:46 AM EST

Abuse is frequent, well-hidden in broad daylight by stigmatizing and social norms. How often do we hear the words "he/she seemed so normal and happy", after a suicide or massacre in the streets hits the news.

Truth is, "normal" is a fiction. Very few people are "normal". Less than one in ten people in western countries can even be considered mentally healthy. If someone seems normal, in such a context, that should set off the red flags and warning sirens like nothing else. The odds are extremely high that they're faking it. The more "normal" they seem, the more fakery they clearly feel is necessary.

The other warning sign is addictive personalities. This usually does NOT mean drugs, as that violates the principle of pretending to be normal. No, this usually involves eating disorders, addiction to adrenaline, co-dependency, etc - stuff that society either is fine with or even praises.

For the most part, you cannot both be "normal" and yourself. People aren't built like the "perfect" families of TV shows. For a start, they have much more depth, much more diversity and vastly more intelligence. Anyone who suppresses all of that, for the sake of "fitting in", is either in extreme danger (it's a survival trait for those being abused) or are an extreme danger to others (abuse requires trust and trust is so much easier when one person seems perfect).

Courts and the legal system rely on the idea that insanity requires not knowing right from wrong. It has no concept of addiction, of dysfunction, of cult personalities, or any of the other extreme dangers that do exist in all societies. As such, I have little faith that the existing system is capable of recognizing a problem even exists. I certainly do not believe it capable of resolving it.

Any person who feels they need to be TV-perfect, or feels that someone they know acts that way, would be well advised to step back from the situation, be honest to themselves (yes, that is hard), and see if there is anything that is just so blatantly wrong with the picture that it has been overlooked. There may not be - some people really ARE as dim as the Brady Bunch - but it is quite impossible to see that for certain if enmeshed in the whole mess.

Once a problem has been identified, then it requires considering if it needs to be fixed. I'm sure there are masochists out there who would LOVE to be in an abusive relationship. (Which is why the sadists won't let them.) Sometimes, there are benefits that outweigh all other considerations. Don't rule something as bad just because it's sick. If we did that all the time, there would be mass unemployment in the US, as most corporations are truly depraved.

IF there really is a problem, AND IF you identify it as one that actually needs fixing, THEN (a) leave the abusive situation unconditionally, and (b) work on your own issues that led you to falling for such a situation in the first place. The first step alone won't solve anything, you'll just repeat the pattern. That is why such behaviors are considered addictions, not accidents.

Given the problem is a massive and ancient one, I don't expect it to be resolved even for a reasonable percent of the population for a very long time. (We're talking centuries or millennia.) As such, don't bother waiting on the world to fix itself, the best you can do is recognize warning signs so that you're able to make a rational decision before things become a problem.

i agree... (none / 1) (#6)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 01:15:20 AM EST

and as i said before, it is much easier now a days to get out of a marriage that you need to, then it was back then..divorces were hardly heard of..not like today..people stayed married..but..that was life..
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
It amazes me that people lived like that (2.00 / 2) (#37)
by Have A Nice Day on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:13:36 PM EST

And I'm not talking here about abuse, but the whole social situation that is described. Apart from anything else it must have been so horribly boring.

Have A Nice Day may have reentered the building.
[ Parent ]
well, it is sad, but this kind of life (2.60 / 5) (#52)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 07:12:16 PM EST

is still around. There are those living this type of hell everyday, altho there has been more help nowadays. Hopefully, awareness will increase to help more of those dealing with this type of situation.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
+1 FP (1.50 / 4) (#12)
by TheNoxx on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:25:02 AM EST

What can I say... At heart, I'm a good ol' liberal southern boy. You hit a lady.... Well, where I come from, you just may live to regret it all the fuckin way to yer birth. Say goodbye to walkin.

:o)) (none / 0) (#30)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 02:07:11 PM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
thanks (2.62 / 8) (#14)
by CAIMLAS on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 06:09:00 AM EST

Thanks for sharing this.

I'm glad you mentioned the fact that you had a male friend who committed suicide, in addition to your female friends. It's a sad fact that the majority of marital abusees (the men) never report their abuses, as they're too ashamed of being beaten by a woman while at the same time not being willing to issue their superior physical force against the woman. It's much the same scenario as with women, but merely a psychological matter of not being able to protect one's self. This isn't to minimize the significance of "men" that beat their wives, however. Harming women is one of the most offensive things I can think of, whether deserved or not.

It's unfortunate that you or someone else couldn't have taken control of the situation and shot the son-of-a-bitch "man" who was beating you and threatening the lives of your children. The rifle he threatened you with was a tool of power which he lorded over you - nothing more than a tool - which you could (and in my opinion, should have) used to stop his violence. However, it seems the same thing which prevented you from seeking help from the police and your community would've also prevented you from taking control of the situation "physically": learned helplessness.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but I'm very glad that your children and grandchildren appear to have coped well enough despite the reckless selfishness of your ex-husband.

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.

transition housing for (3.00 / 2) (#17)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 08:44:02 AM EST

men are now being built in western canada. there is a need and i for one am glad these men now have a place to go for help.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Ummmm (none / 1) (#125)
by pde on Wed Mar 01, 2006 at 07:26:11 PM EST

I agree that abuse of men by women occurs, but in my experience it is at least 3-4 times less common than abuse by men.

Your suggestion that victims should use violence (moondancer with a gun, men with their strength) to solve the problem is pretty dumb.  Violence is the problem, not who "wins" and "loses" a physical fight.

In extreme cases -- psychopathic chronic abusers -- we'd be better off if they were dead.  But I have two friends who have suffered from rapists (and potential murderers) of that sort -- and both of those people are still free.  So perhaps society should just get around to locking them up one day.

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[ Parent ]

The end of the relationship.... (2.00 / 3) (#22)
by Have A Nice Day on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 11:34:09 AM EST

"I found him in her bed with her [my sister] and another of her friends. Well, needless to say, that was the end of this marriage."

Erm, Were social conditions really so different back then that you couldn't have left him before? I really don't want to sound unsympathetic because I am, entirely, but you said his girlfriends called the house, and he had a reputation as a womaniser and you even caught him with one in your own house. Regardless of the beatings why the hell weren't you out of there WAY before the sister incident?

I guess I just don't really understand.

Have A Nice Day may have reentered the building.
well, (2.60 / 5) (#27)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 01:51:42 PM EST

with no funds, no friends and no where to go..i guess staying was the best option at the time. for a young, naive girl, its a big world out there..and i guess fear of the unknown was worse then fear of the known beatings..one always hoped things would get better..after i "grew" up some, i realized things were not going to change, bit the bullet, grabbed my children and lived from parking lot to parking lot for the week. i then found that little house across from the school which was great...and no, in those days you did not leave husbands or wives..and i think today it may have changed some, but i still know of wives AND husbands who will not leave their abusing partners.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Iguess if you grow up in that situation (2.25 / 4) (#33)
by Have A Nice Day on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 02:58:37 PM EST

And knowing that marriage is forever and you don't break up and you put on a brave face and....

Thankfully that attitude seems to be fading. I think (I hope) that men and women alike are now taught to realise that they're worth more than that. Not that I think for a momenbt that abuse is a problem from the past, just that we're hopefully heading in the right direction now.

Have A Nice Day may have reentered the building.
[ Parent ]
yes, i think spousal abuse is beginning (none / 0) (#38)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:17:37 PM EST

to get more attention nowadays, with new laws in force and help for the abused and abuser being more in the open. although there is lots to do yet, but its a start.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Side note... (3.00 / 2) (#92)
by Gooba42 on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:13:40 PM EST

Even without the abuse angle this has been identified in surveys/studies as an indicator of "success" in marriage.

The divorce rate has climbed so high now partly because many couples do not view marriage as an institution having its own merit above and beyond the notion of romantic love.

In this case obviously it was not in the participants favor to have this concept of marriage but it's arguable that the divorce (and possibly marriage) rate would be lower if more couples took it seriously in this manner.

[ Parent ]

I wonder how many times I've heard (2.75 / 4) (#79)
by tetsuwan on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 04:20:35 AM EST

Take them while they're young

From various men. They say the like their women innocent, but the truth is often much graver. They want control before the women grow wise enough to know what's best for them.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

actually, my husband was only 2 years older... (none / 0) (#83)
by moondancer on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:31:11 AM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
You want the nasty/real anwer? (2.75 / 4) (#99)
by SmallFurryCreature on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:06:18 PM EST

It is going to be truly mean to say so turn off now if you can't handle the truth.

Still here, okay now I will tell you to read all the way down because I have a very serious point to make.

Okay first of why I think I am a fucking authority on the subject. Well I have lived with a couple of people from all walks of live including a few women who came from abusive relations. A older woman with a kid in childcare, a pregnant girl in her late teens, a girl who was beaten by her father (she is NOT part of this as she is a clear victim as she DID NOT choose her father) and a new couple of whom the wife had been in a bad relation.

My own mother left my father the moment he tried to become like this. No not just her account, also the account from my fathers parents.

So I know a bit about it. Again what I am about to say is harsh and does not include the girl abused by her father.

The women who stayed for a long time were all tools. Fuckwads. Dipshits. The kind of people with the backbone of a jellyfish and all the moral fiber of a toad.

I told you it was harsh. Oh of course they probably have their reasons for being like that but that is for the shrink to figure out. If you want to know causes then that is it. At the time when the relationship starts the woman is in a very low opinion of herself with no selfrespect or selfworth.

I haven't seen or heard of a single case where there were no warning signs. Here is a big tip. If the guy is a bully in highschool, why do you think he is going to be any different at home? Another nice one is that if he was the big stud before, he is not likely to chance now is he? (A whole other discussion is that no women is happy with a normal nice guy, she wants a challenge. Someone she can chance.)

Woman in general fall for the wrong men. It is a woman thing. We makes jokes about it, like these but they carry a real element of truth. Especially when a woman is unsure of herself. What makes a woman sure of herself? God knows, it certainly doesn't seem to happen very often. Perhaps being normally loved by her parents as she grows up. Not being pressed into some elite rolemodel that is impossible to hold up to.

You get the idea from this womans story that she was pretty much brought up to be a wive. That was what she was pressured into and she didn't have what it takes to stand up to it. Why not? I don't know, neither does she I think.

Now peer pressure can apparently be a real bitch. I am socially inept wich is a great handicap in some ways but also means peer pressure is completly irrelvant to me. The whole "getting married was important" bit is something I can't relate to except in purely abstract form. Sorta like no male can relate to what being pregnant feels like. So I am no expert on how important it was to her to 'fit' in. To do as she was expected. become a wive, give birth to kids, two a boy and a girl and provide the happy carefree home for her family. Even today that image is still very important.

Remember I am socially inept and that includes dealing with the other sex but maybe a year ago I learned something that astounded me. Even in 2005 an entire generation after the sexual revolution, maybe two, I learned that there are still women, young women, who are given an allowance by their husbands. o_O

Seriously. One woman even gave her own salary to her partner (not married) and then got an allowance out of that.

And they accepted this. For real

Worse? There will be people reading this who go, "so?". Amazing.

If you think this womans story belongs in the past think again. Also this is definitly not lower class. In the lower class families of old it was after all the woman who had to pay the rentman and the milkman and the coalman and who knows what else. It was the woman who did the economics while the man worked. It was the man who got an allowance (story from my grandfather on my mothers side) for the soccer club and the bar.

So why do woman do this? Well we had peer pressure. Then there is low selfesteem self worth wich makes people want to latch onto strong personalities. Wife beaters are never the shy gentle kind. They look to the girl with no backbone as someone to cling on to perhaps. Oh there are nice ways of saying it but it is true. A weak woman needs a strong man or something. Except these man are not strong. Strong men only want strong women.

Peer pressure, him looking strong and capable of giving her the guidance she seeks get them hitched. Then all is bliss usually. For a bit. Or so they tell themselves anyway. Bliss after all is relative. I suppose there are some people chained up in a dungeon who are happy that today they have not been beaten with a live electric cord. When the relation ends with a broken face I think blissfull beginning is not what you and I would call bliss. Maybe he just didn't hit her the first couple of years.

But you say why did she not leave earlier. When? When he demanded she stay home with the baby? But is that so unreasonable? Of course a mother stays home with her kids. The first time he yelled at her? Well he was probaly tired from work. First time he hit her. Well she had angered him. Second time? Well she should have listened the first time. Etc etc. Stupid excuses but I am sure they seem reasonable at the time. There are always excuses and there is always the peer pressure and none of this is exactly helping the self-esteem. Many people in these situations blame themselves. Even child rape victimes do, because a 6 year old made her father rape her. If that can make sense then what is little bit of smacking around?

And what if she leaves. To where? With what? Leave the kids? If she takes them with her she needs a shit load of cash. Go to her parents? And have the dream shatter? Tell everything was a lie? Fail?

The lucky ones get out at some point. Well, no the lucky ones never get into it. She can talk about her live being better but that is such a crock. Her live and her kids were ruined with a real chance they too will go in bad relations.

Anyway the getting out. Sometimes it is for the kids because the violence starts extending to the kids, sometimes it is an outsider who steps in, and sometimes they just wake up that this is it. It is rarely a clean break. Abusive partners are very good at convincing that it will never happen again.

So what was all this about? Well I didn't read in her story one final realisation. That it was not his fault. It was hers.

yeah I know, I know. This is exactly the opposite of what all the shrinks say. But I got a reason. Why? Because abusive relationships carry over from generation to generation. A child who sees his father smack his/her mother around will think this is normal. Oh it start innocent enough at first perhaps, perhaps the son will just be manly and the daughter nice and sweet and then they grow up, the son marries and gets frustated and takes it out the way his dad did and the girl marries a man like her father and wham we got the whole fucking mess again times 2.

So why is it her fault? Because she married him. Had she been raised better she would never have fallen for him/the peer pressure to get married. She would like many millions of other woman have made her own live without or without a patner and he would have had to look for some other weak girl to bully or live alone.

Girls (and men who can also be on the receiving end in abusive relationships) really need to have more self-esteem so that they can better choose their own live. That of course is our fault as a society. We raised women like her to be nothing more then to be wives who could not possibly live on their own.

This is still true today. Just check how many women dare to be single. I mean really single as in non-attached. Not 'coming out of', 'going into', 'looking for', or even 'in between' relationship. Just pure single and happy to be so.

We need to teach women that it is okay to be single and that taking anykind of abuse in a relationship is not normal.

The sad thing is that you can spot abusive partners from a mile. People who are confidant about themselves know to stay clear from them. People who are not are there prey.

That is why stories like hers happen and continue to happen. Social pressure and lack of confidence in women. But until women themselves learn that it is them that is at fault for picking the wrong men nothing is going to chance.

Remember, she had the chance to say no right at the start. I am willing to bet a million bucks there was a nice guy in her enviroment who she did not pick. This woman is teaching every man out there a simple lesson once again. Nice guys stay single, wifebeaters get a manage a trois with your wifes sister.

Now make your choice. Now if I sound bitter that is because I am, beneath all the bile I am a 'nice' guy. The guy from the joke who is the friend no woman considers for a mate. I have sat up late at night with woman who spewed their hearts out I even gave shelter to a friend of a friend for a night before she was dared to get real help and that is all okay. I just sometimes want to scream "WHY DID YOU FUCK THE ASSHOLES WHY YOU LEFT THE NICE GEEKS TO FREEZE IN THE COLD? FUCK BULLIES == GETTING SMACKED". You can't in real live but this is the internet. I can't see your face and you can't see mine so I can say what my gut is tellng me. Guess the internet really brings out the asshole in you.
[ Parent ]

wow!! you could not be more wrong! peer pressure? (none / 1) (#103)
by moondancer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:41:39 PM EST

low self esteem? abusers not the shy quiet type? you may have had a couple of friends go thru this, but believe me, peer pressure and low self esteem had nothing to do with it. My ex husband displayed the quietness of a lamb, which is also the way most are. He was not a womanizer prior to our marriage, he did seem the perfect mate! did I make him angry? no doubt, as most people get angry at their spouses or loved ones, but that is NO reason to be abusive!anyway, thank you for your comments :o) it shows me that there are all kinds of thoughts on the subject, and you cannot "paint all with the same brush." I too, have worked with many abused women AND men and each story is of THEIR own. You cannot put them in the same category.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
None are so blind as they that do not wish to see. (2.50 / 4) (#109)
by SmallFurryCreature on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 07:13:36 AM EST

How would you categorize this?

Getting married was very important in the early 60's. Most friends were getting married and I guess I did not want to be "different" and end up as the "old maid."

The group said, you got to get married, so you got married.

Another sign of giving into peer/social pressure, I guess I just didn't want to be labeled a "loser".

Caring about your image to an extent it hurts you.

As to your low self esteem at the time of the abuse. Well it so bloody obvious I start to doubt that this story is real. No person with the tiniest bit of selfworth would stand for this. For volunteer work (doing tech support not direct client contact) I am exposed to young girl who are 'forced' into prostitution by lover boys. They date the girls, give them present and then pressure them into becoming hookers and pimp them. Very abusive and all the girls got one thing in common just like abused wives. They got absolutly no idea of self worth.

People who have self-esteem do not put up with abuse.

I really get the feeling that either this is made up or you haven't worked through it all or you have concocted some fantasy in your head to explain it all.

Men do not chance. It is a very simple fundemental rule that women seem unable to grasp but we just do not chance. If he was womanizing during your marriage he was before. The quiet lambs do not end up in 3 somes with their wifes sister. Just doesn't work that way.

I am confused by the bit "did I make him angry? no doubt, ". I reread my post and don't recall making excuses for his behaviour. There was a bit where I 'made up' some of the excuses that women come up with as the abuse starts. You in a way echo that but don't make it out like I am the one making excuses for him.

You say worked with many abused people (I have not apart from personal experience and being the tech guy at an organisation that helps women forced into prostitition) can you honestly say that any of the persons being abused for long periods were overflowing with feelings off self esteem?

But hey, read the other responses, most of them are the kinda softly touchy feely responses. No need to listen to me telling you the nasty truth. Good of you to respond but if I can give a final piece of advice. Write your story down on paper just for yourselve but with different names. Then wait for a month or so and re-read it with an open mind. Then try to judge that woman in the story as if it is the first time meeting her.

If you judge her as a strong woman (during the abuse) resistant to group thinking and knowing her own self worth then I suggest you start googling for the meaning of those words.
[ Parent ]

Hm. (none / 1) (#114)
by BJH on Thu Feb 23, 2006 at 11:50:28 PM EST

Remember I am socially inept and that includes dealing with the other sex but maybe a year ago I learned something that astounded me. Even in 2005 an entire generation after the sexual revolution, maybe two, I learned that there are still women, young women, who are given an allowance by their husbands. o_O

Seriously. One woman even gave her own salary to her partner (not married) and then got an allowance out of that.

And they accepted this. For real

Worse? There will be people reading this who go, "so?". Amazing.

I'm not sure why you find this so strange (or why you'd consider people who don't think it strange to be strange).
In Japan, it's quite common for the husband (and sole worker in the family) to give his entire salary to his wife each month and receive a (small) allowance out of it for lunch, etc.
Why is it so strange if it's done the other way round?
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

Well, I sure believe this and (none / 1) (#115)
by Sandwormrum on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:16:12 AM EST

have seen it myself. I know of men doing the work, handing over their paychecks to the wife then getting an allowance. So it happens yet.
**Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.**
[ Parent ]
everyone fights (1.41 / 12) (#34)
by circletimessquare on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 03:09:56 PM EST

it's just that if you fight too much, the bonds that bring two people together get broken, and the relationship ends

so a lot of people reading your words won't understand the economic coercion whereby you continue being with someone who does this to you

some people, not understanding that you couldn't leave, will accuse you of wanting to be beaten, or being too stupid to not want to leave

such people are rich children, who have never known suffering, and whose opinions are invalid because they comment on that which they don't understand

being poor means you are forced to stay with a man like this. if you don't understand how or why poverty can work like this, then you don't understand poverty, and you shouldn't comment on this story

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

That describes an awful lot of k5 (2.66 / 3) (#35)
by Have A Nice Day on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:10:26 PM EST

that you've just decided are not allowed to comment because of their backround. I wonder, why did the submitter post the story here if not for comment?

I understand that my experience of life is not the only one and my comment below shows this - I ask for an explanation of what I don't understand about it. Is that behaviour disallowed because I don't understand? How else can I learn?

Have A Nice Day may have reentered the building.
[ Parent ]
you have empathy (none / 0) (#36)
by circletimessquare on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:12:58 PM EST

it was positted against those who would say "she wants to beat up, because she did not leave"

would you say that? i don't think so

but there are plenty who would

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Hmm (1.00 / 2) (#39)
by Have A Nice Day on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:18:16 PM EST

No, I would never say that. I do, however, struggle to understand the behaviour. Clearly she is neither insane nor some sort of masochist because her story is repeated time and again.

Perhaps it is also because I am nonconformist in nature and have not been impoverished that I would not consider the social and monetary pressures enough to keep me in such a situation...

Have A Nice Day may have reentered the building.
[ Parent ]
costs versus benefits (none / 0) (#41)
by circletimessquare on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:39:52 PM EST

if you are in a situation where your husband beats you in the face once a month, and your alternative is just to move, you'll move

if you are in a situation where your husband beats you in the face once a month, and your alternative is life on the street, you'll choose to get beat in the face

are you of economic means? do you have marketable skills? do you live in an environment where the government provides social safety nets without questions? are you educated fully about your other choices?

all of these questions are valid

but none of them excuse the guy for beating the woman, and none of them make the woman complicit, insane, or masochistic enough to getting beat up

and yet, some assholes actually BELIEVE that some women want to get beat

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

The sad fact (none / 0) (#98)
by pyro9 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 11:33:16 AM EST

The really sad fact is that a single person who is not on a career track somewhere often simply cannot earn enough money to provide for a child. If they have one job, food, clothing, and shelter are too expensive much less daycare. If they have 2 jobs, the kids end up home alone (since you can't get daycare for 16 hours a day even if you could magically afford it).

All of the claptrap about how great our economy is falls flat when you remember that at one time a single income could provide for a middle class family of 4 and now it can't. The problem back when a single income COULD be enough is that those incomes were not generally available to women.

The future isn't what it used to be
[ Parent ]
any comment is justified :o) questions asked and (3.00 / 2) (#40)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:19:37 PM EST

comments are great learning tools. I appreciate both postitive and negative comments, it helps one to be aware of the diversity of our cultures and beliefs.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
The root of the problem? A bad brain. (3.00 / 9) (#48)
by xC0000005 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 06:08:56 PM EST

Well, maybe bad programming to the brain. Based on the personal experiences of family, Economic coercion is only one method abusers use, and by no means the greatest. The greatest form of coercion is in the mind. Abusers either find women receptive (or conditioned to) believe their brand of reality - "You are nothing without me. This is all your fault Love hurts. You deserved it." Try that with the average person. It won't get you very far, but people with abuse receptive (or abuse seeking) programming accept (or find) reasons to stay.

That is not a defense of abusers, just my experience.

I did some minor volunteer work with an agency that provided shelter to battered people (I'd say women, but the most violent batterer I've ever seen was a five foot flat woman), and I can tell you that when a person is ready to leave, they do. They just do. Yes, there's the threat of violence. Yes, sometimes the kids are held as collateral for a woman's return (sometimes the victim's the impression was that they were - keep in mind that perception in this case is reality, because it doesn't matter if the abuser actually leaves the kids with the neighbor, goes out and gets smashed, comes home a couple days later - the abusee's belief that the abuser is standing over the children, ready to hurt them, is their measuring stick). Over time, I learned that how really violent a person was had no real relation to their control over many of these partner/victims. "He's huge, he's huge. He'll tear you apart." I can't remember how many times I heard that one, even from my own family member. The batterer's size in the victim/partner's mind was the relevant point. His willingness to actually take an action was absolutely nothing compared to the reality of their belief that he would. It was really enlightening. And sad.

I watched those who decided to walk away. Some to the streets, some to help. I watched one leave one abusive person only to seek out another (and heard second hand later that it happened again, with a 3rd). Showed up to do some repairs to find one had called the abuser, had them come over to the safe house, "so he wouldn't be alone." Was it rational? Yes - to that person. The person in that case literally could not see what was wrong with their actions, so warped was their view of reality. I was never so glad for the summer to be over. I met a woman who had worked in the shelter for twelve years. She has heard everything, or so she once said. Her face bore the haunted look that characterized so many of her clients. The years of beating by proxy have left their mark. She had evolved, from wanting to save them all, to accepting that she can save no one, and knowing that she can only do what they allow her.

Abuse has to be fought at every level. Criminal, Social, Psychological. Until then, it's a losing battle.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
[ Parent ]

your post (2.00 / 2) (#51)
by circletimessquare on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 07:09:50 PM EST

has a level of catharsis in it to

it is exasperating, the psychological twists and turns of batterer and battered

the lies we tell others, the lies we tell ourselves

they all add up to a prison

some of it is so absurd it would be the funniest joke ever told if the damage domestic violence does wasn't so palpable on human lives and suffering, in spouses and in children

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Excuses (1.00 / 2) (#101)
by SmallFurryCreature on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:20:18 PM EST

There are always excuses. For everything.

The first thing you need to learn in any self aid program is to stop with excuses.

Once she decided there were no more excuses she got out. That proves you wrong. If you excuse had been valid she would not be talking about it today.
[ Parent ]

well, I dont really see that staying had anything (none / 0) (#102)
by moondancer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:27:23 PM EST

to do with excuses. I believe being in this position and staying in it, was because of the fear of the unknown. Where would I go? How would I survive on my own? Who would help me with my children? There are many reasons, but until you have been there, I dont think you can call them excuses. Remember, I left a family with parents, very young at the time. I had never been on my own to "look after" myself, so this was all an unknown. And also, the abuser is usually quite "caring" between the times of the abuse happening with many promises that you hope you will come true.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Well, yeah, that is what you call an excuse (none / 0) (#108)
by SmallFurryCreature on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 06:44:59 AM EST

But what would you call them? There were two suicides in your social circle because of abuse.

Therefore "how would I survive on my own" should have been cancelled by, "how do I survive if I stay here".

"Where would I go", well it was the 70's. Women rights had started to improve back then but lets be honest here. Is "wherever I am not being pushed through a wall" a good place to be? Honestly?

"Who would help me with my childeren", a very valid worry. Your parents? I do not get the impression from your story you were on bad terms with them. What about the question "how will my childeren grow up in a household like this". Even if he never lays a finger on them (wich you say he did when the abducted them after you left making it very likely he would have done so even if you remained there) what does it teach your kids about normal family live if they that men beat women?

Exactly because I haven't been there personally is the reason I can call them excuses. I have not been in your situation but I too needed an outsider to tell me the truth. Oh a far lighter situation but I had plenty of reasons for not getting out of it and only an outsider could tell me that they were just excuses.

I can understand your fear, your worries, your reasonings. Can you understand that to an outsider they just sound like a bunch of excuses, no matter how real.

If you don't call them excuses, then what do you call them?
[ Parent ]

You're part of the problem, unfortunately (none / 1) (#124)
by pde on Wed Mar 01, 2006 at 07:09:00 PM EST

SFC, it seems that you have no understanding of the effects that shame and feelings of worthlessness have on many people's ability to see the best course of action. It is true that some personalities are such that they would never get into an abusive relationship, and that people who can be trapped in them (probably a majority) are different from those who can't. But so what? When did a strong will become a pre-requisite for being a worthwhile human being?

By calling victims' thoughts "excuses" you are taking a major step towards blaming them for domestic violence. Your conception of their freedom to "stop making excuses" is deeply naive (and also sounds like it's based on the long-falsified notion that the human spirit is some magical, non-physical thing). Many victims of domestic violence, were they to read your comments, would only blame themselves more and be less likely to organise their escape.

There's no easy solution to domestic violence, but the things that help are open discussion of the problem and how horrificly widespread it is; reinforcement of the fact that it isn't the fault of the victims; a willingness of the community to proactively intervene when they know or even suspect that abuse is occurring (eg friends who do not walk out when a beating starts); and proper support infrastructure to help people leave who want to leave.

Visit Computerbank, a GNU/Linux based charity
[ Parent ]

you are so right in your comments.. (none / 0) (#126)
by moondancer on Wed Mar 01, 2006 at 11:32:37 PM EST

it seems those that dont truly understand like to blame the person for not leaving, etc..but it is more than that..thank you for your comments..
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
+1 FP...I will definitely vote this one up.... (1.00 / 3) (#43)
by terryfunk on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 05:18:55 PM EST

when it hits the queue. Awareness of this problem has certainly come a long way. However, there is so much further it needs to go. Hopefully, a Kuro5hin front page story will help.

I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown
The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

thank you, I too believe there needs to be more (none / 1) (#46)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 05:31:20 PM EST

awareness and assistance for those in this type of situation. It is only thru communication and letting others know that there IS help and caring people out there. If the violence at home will stop, the world would be a much nicer place. :o)
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
+1, hope writing it helped. $ (2.25 / 8) (#53)
by akostic on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 08:41:25 PM EST

"After an indeterminate amount of time trading insane laughter with the retards, I grew curious and tapped on the window." - osm
+1FP. Soundtrack that played in my head: (1.00 / 3) (#56)
by LodeRunner on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 09:56:10 PM EST

Saw things
Once you were in my

"dude, you can't even spell your own name" -- Lode Runner

Yeah for sure, also.... (3.00 / 3) (#58)
by terryfunk on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 10:06:47 PM EST

Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E becomes final today
Me and little J-O-E will be goin' away

-Tammy Wynette

I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown
The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

[ Parent ]

another great tune!!! :o) (none / 0) (#74)
by moondancer on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 01:03:35 AM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Too easy (1.75 / 4) (#71)
by godix on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 12:15:44 AM EST

Change my pitch up, smack my bitch up.

More CORN!

[ Parent ]
great tune!! ;o) (none / 0) (#73)
by moondancer on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 01:02:20 AM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Sadly, pain inspires music (none / 0) (#77)
by jd on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 03:44:50 AM EST

Well, I guess it's an improvement on not getting any fringe benefits at all and only suffering, but it's limited and cold as comfort goes.

A snippet from a song by Sisters of Mercy:

And the devil in black dress watches over
My guardian angel walks away
Life is short and love is always over in the morning
Black wind come carry me far away

With the sunlight died and night above me
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

[ Parent ]

Emotion inspires music, art, etc. (3.00 / 3) (#85)
by haflinger on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:05:06 AM EST

This is obvious; it's equally obvious that pain, like happiness, is an emotion.

It's just that so much of the music that's marketed as happiness-inspired is crap. However, we've still got things like Gregorian chants, Enya and the Proclaimers to rely on for the opposite.

Did people from the future send George Carlin back in time to save rusty and K5? - leviramsey
[ Parent ]

True, but still (3.00 / 4) (#88)
by LodeRunner on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 01:26:40 PM EST

Lots of great Beatles songs are inspired by happiness. There's a band that covered the whole spectrum pretty well, probably one of the main reasons why they were so successful and still are.

"dude, you can't even spell your own name" -- Lode Runner
[ Parent ]

So the judge says to a double-homicide defendant, (2.21 / 14) (#68)
by Lenticular Array on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 11:10:12 PM EST

"You're charged with beating your wife to death with a hammer." A voice at the back of the courtroom yells out, "You bastard!" The judge says, "You're also charged with beating your mother-in-law to death with a hammer." The voice in the back of the courtroom yells out, "You God-damned bastard!" The judge stops and says to the guy in the back of the courtroom, "Sir, I can understand your anger and frustration at this crime. But no more outbursts from you, or I'll charge you with contempt. Is that a problem?" The guy in the back of the court stands up and says, "For fifteen years, I've lived next door to that bastard, and every time I asked to borrow a hammer, he said he didn't have one."
Minus -1 (1.00 / 25) (#75)
by alphaxer0 on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 02:22:52 AM EST

Probably burnt the dinner.

fuck you nullo (3.00 / 7) (#80)
by chlorus on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 04:44:26 AM EST

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy pedophile?
[ Parent ]

much better writer than you, though (2.66 / 3) (#91)
by livus on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 04:53:13 PM EST

which burns you doesn't it.

HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Of course (none / 0) (#94)
by alphaxer0 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 02:28:51 AM EST

because she's beaten me to my dream, which was to have a soppy Lifetime movie made about my life. Then I figured, why clog Kuro5hin with another whiney story about domestic violence.

[ Parent ]
Nevermind, you could always write a whiney story (3.00 / 3) (#95)
by livus on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 02:38:53 AM EST

about the police.

Oh, wait.

HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Real Mature (none / 0) (#96)
by alphaxer0 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 02:46:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
BWAHAHAHAHA (2.00 / 3) (#111)
by circletimessquare on Thu Feb 23, 2006 at 12:18:12 PM EST

"Real Mature" says the teenager

after writing "-1, Probably burnt the dinner" on a story about domestic violence

so amusing, teenaged retards

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Thanks for having the courage... (none / 1) (#97)
by Russell Dovey on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 03:48:29 AM EST

...to post this moving and enlightening account in front of k5, home of some of the most nihilistic monkeys on the Net.

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

thanks!! I believe that a subject such as this, (none / 1) (#100)
by moondancer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 07:17:33 PM EST

is important for all to be aware of. It is only with communication among all that will raise the awareness of these type of problems in the world today. Perhaps letting others know, will help even one person somewhere along the way. :o)
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Moondancer (none / 0) (#104)
by livus on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 08:31:20 PM EST

Was this before or after you became a nurse? Also, was this before your mother's illness?

HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

oh yes, (none / 1) (#105)
by moondancer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:01:51 PM EST

this all took place in the late 60's. I became an RN in 1980 and my mom took ill about the late 80's early 90's.
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
this is just terrible!! (none / 1) (#106)
by emo kid on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 11:51:42 PM EST

I'm going to have to go and cry now!

How do we vaccinate our daughters against this? (3.00 / 2) (#107)
by mikelieman on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 05:57:32 AM EST

What skills, training, background, etc. is common among women who have gotten out?  What personality traits are the most vulnerable.

Screw Drug Abuse, this is a REAL THREAT to the health and well being of our kids.
-- I Miss Jerry

Why it happens (3.00 / 2) (#113)
by catseye on Thu Feb 23, 2006 at 04:35:47 PM EST

Women get trapped in these relationships because of low self esteem and fear... regardless of other personality traits, it all boils down to how they feel about themselves and whether or not they're willing to stand up for themselves in some fasion. (Note: Standing up for yourself can also include packing up and leaving when he's at work.)

A woman that thinks she'll never do any better than the scumbag that beats her every Thursday, won't. A woman that's afraid won't get out until she overcomes that fear, whether it's a fear of being hurt more by leaving, fear of being alone, fear of humiliation for allowing it to happen, fear of having no means of support, etc.

Women aren't born with low self-esteem and deep-seated fears. Their early life experiences turn them that way... are their parents supportive, or do they tell her she's worthless? Does she have a mother that's a bad role model? Does she come from a home where domestic violence is the norm? Does she have a good father or father figure? Do her family and friends tell her that she's nothing without a boyfriend or husband? Is she encouraged to be self-sufficient? Is she encouraged to learn to defend herself physically (including when to run away)?

If she's going down (or being pushed down) the wrong path, such as being very promiscuous at a young age, getting involved with the "wrong" men, being physically abused by her father, being emotionally or psychologically abused by either parent, etc., does anyone help?

While I would never blame a victim of domestic violence for what happened, I do have to assign some of the responsibility to the victim. If your husband or boyfriend starts telling you who you can be friends with, when you can leave the house, what you can wear, etc., then you have two choices -- submit to being chattel, or not. Stay or leave, it's that simple, as long as there are no children involved. Once children are involved it becomes more difficult to leave and takes some planning, but it's still possible.

How can we fight Islamic Fundamentalism abroad if we do not fight Christian Fundamentalism at home?
[ Parent ]

no, the choices arent as simple as staying or (3.00 / 4) (#119)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 09:54:33 PM EST

leaving..if have or dont have children. yes, its easier without children, but the thing is, your leaving has to be well planned with careful thought as to how and when and where you are going...just walking out the door while he is at work, could be a bigger mistake than staying until you have things in place to leave...advice being given, is to be prepared, have clothing hid away, a few dollars, and a place to go to, with NO ONE in your immediate family or friends knowing when or where you are going. it is too easy for your spouse to find you, especially in a smaller centre. there is no correct answer for any of this, each case is different..
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Not easy, but still the right thing to do. (3.00 / 2) (#120)
by catseye on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 09:59:06 AM EST

To me, it is as simple as leaving. When he leaves the house, you pack up some clothes, take jewelry and other things of value, then just leave. Perhaps it's easier to do now than it was when you went through this. There are more women's shelters and services that deal with domestic violence. Health care givers are more likely to be of help now than they were 30-40 years ago, as are the police.

But, you've been through this and I haven't, so while I speak from opinion you speak from experience. I admit that although I know the psychology behind the abuser/victim relationship, I can't really understand how women allow themselves to be put in that situation. I come from the kind of background that would make me the perfect victim, yet fortunately I went the opposite way. I'm not afraid of things, I like myself, I learned how to defend myself and have used it on occasion, I'm assertive and in control of my life, and have made a conscious effort to stay away from the kind of men that turn into abusers.

How can we fight Islamic Fundamentalism abroad if we do not fight Christian Fundamentalism at home?
[ Parent ]

yes, in those days there were no shelters... (none / 1) (#122)
by moondancer on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 05:55:23 PM EST

and abuse was kept "under wraps"..I really wasnt afraid of much either, but I did have a fear of getting murdered if I left..I didnt want my children to be on there own..there was and still is lots of that happening..nowadays there is a lot more help for the abused woman or man as it is spoken of more and is not "hid" as much as it was..those involved in these types of relationships tend to speak out more and I feel it still has a long way to go..thanks for your comments..:)
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
or just admit you're a gold digger (1.00 / 3) (#121)
by wowboy on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 04:06:20 PM EST

remember your comment cateyes? you stated that the young, broke types are the ones you have fun with and the stable nice guys are the ones you marry.

zero credibility. enjoy your sick and twisted little lie of a marriage.

[ Parent ]

Just get a life and STFU already (none / 0) (#123)
by catseye on Tue Feb 28, 2006 at 12:45:23 PM EST

How can we fight Islamic Fundamentalism abroad if we do not fight Christian Fundamentalism at home?
[ Parent ]
Amazing story (none / 0) (#112)
by mt on Thu Feb 23, 2006 at 01:24:45 PM EST

Dear moondancer
Amazing story and all yours!
Don't pay any attention to any of the MoFo Trollz.
Your story is real and it's yours, and it's sad and painful but brilliant. Thank you!
Stay well /mt

=== Mmm - hold that thought

thank you for your comments.. (none / 0) (#118)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 09:46:04 PM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Survival, Retribution & Justice (none / 1) (#116)
by aguila on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 02:17:21 PM EST

I have no appropriate words to express my reaction to what you shared.  

What I reflect upon here may not actually address your experience but merely stem from it.

No one chooses a partner knowingly who will descend themselves and one's life into a horror show.  Yet also enough do not really explore their inner strengths or weaknesses seriously such that those weaker aspects are healed or addressed so that potential abuses of oneself or others are minimized, if not prevented.

When I was younger I had believed that a certain faith or a certain psychological therapeutic technique or mere good intention would be good enough to be a firewall to what we are reviewing here.  I have lived long enough to discover that none of these are enough as those persons also who have walked that road -- priests, ministers, congregation leaders, psychologists and other health professionals, teachers and gifted persons of otherwise high intelligence -- not only betrayed the trust of their respective communities, they destroyed themselves and their own families.  In each case the power of one's intelligence is insufficient in anything but making each abusive act progressively worse.  One doesn't have to resort to discovering the potential fleeting or slightest expression of regret in the fictional character of Hannibal Lector; one can note it in the interviews done with Dahmer.

Regret however is already too late.  Tears are too late and forgiveness in a situation as dark as this is merely another way to potentially offend oneself leading a new round of despair and self-abuse or abuse of others.  In situations like this, forgiveness is a matter not to do with others as it is to do with oneself.  In short, where did one stop paying attention that there was a problem which needed one's full attention and when did one give up trying to do something before one eventually chose violence as a tool of retaliation.  Or finally when judged, one must endure the identity of oneself as a criminal together with all the associations which go with it up to paying for the offense or offenses with one's life.  Yet again this one life paying one death may be a cheap price when the ruination of others goes beyond one victim.

Let's consider a related horror: Hussein and his sons.  Remember each had a choice (throughout all the years of Hussein's rule) of whatever school boy or girl pleased their sexual appetite of the moment any and all day -- at any time.  No parent would know from day to day whether their child would return home the same way they left that morning.  

His son's as everyone knows are dead; Hussein soon may well be.  Again death happens once; what manner of punishment addresses this?  This may be a proof for God's existence because only God would have sufficient power to exact payment.  And we can be sure that Hitler, Hussein's hero, will share his experience when they meet.

We each know the simple self-preservation method of paying attention when we cross the street.  How we do not choose to explore our interactions and choices more deeply before they proceed further before they harm ourselves or others, is a matter of self-retraining or re-education regarding what is important in living with others.  The simple admonition expressed in Taoism and expanded upon in many of the worlds religions is very telling:  Handling a problem is easiest when it is yet small.

In brief, the best answer is prevention.  If the offense or abuse is stopped when it is yet early and it's causes (which will be multiple and deep rooted from many different sources) seriously addressed and explored by the individual perhaps best done with psychotherapists together with parents who also address the difficulty seriously - perhaps many horrors can avoided.

It may be certain that other horrible events in living will occur; this however, how we relate to ourselves and to others this effort of studied and balanced introspection can and should be done daily with as much attention to how we attend to all the other details in our lives we are very attentive to.

Perhaps if we see this venture or effort as much as a gift of demonstrating caring for ourselves as well as for others -- a sort of personal and careful introspective hygeine as engaged upon as seriously as one has been instructed to look for cancer, perhaps our self-interest could kick in and go a long way towards addressing what we need or should address when it is yet still small.

There is hope also in the world along with the strength necessary to heal and improve ourselves for our own sakes as well as our communities, if we will choose wisely.
=============== Lakota Sioux: Mitakuye Oyasin English Translation: We are all related.

thank you for your comments.. (none / 0) (#117)
by moondancer on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 08:15:56 PM EST

**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Spousal Abuse (3.00 / 1) (#127)
by Marvaud on Fri Mar 10, 2006 at 07:12:55 AM EST

How brave of you to tell your story. Bravo! It's always better to be alone than in a bad marriage. I know women who keep repeating the same mistakes. Your story is certainly one of encouragement. Thanks for sharing it.

if but one person can be helped... (none / 0) (#130)
by moondancer on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:39:47 AM EST

by the telling of my story, it is all worth it..thank you for your comments..
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Terrible (none / 0) (#128)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Sat Mar 18, 2006 at 09:29:52 AM EST

I just got engaged. I promise you I will never do to my wife what happened to you. I know this may not mean much as it doesn't take away the terrible things that happened to you, but I want you to know that at least one woman will not go through this treatment!

It was very brave of you to tell this story. I'm truly sorry that you endured this from your ex-husband :(


AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".

congrats on your.. (none / 0) (#129)
by moondancer on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:36:01 AM EST

forthcoming marriage..:o))and thank you for  your comments..
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Spousal Abuse: guns, fists and words | 128 comments (74 topical, 54 editorial, 1 hidden)
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