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[P]
Hunting Squirrel: The Other White Meat

By t1ber in Culture
Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:00:00 PM EST
Tags: Food (all tags)
Food

Black squirrels, brown squirrels, red squirrels, white squirrels! They are all rodents, they are found in most parts of the world and they all have one thing in common: They are all delicious.

It is the end of hunting season in my corner of the world and I have hung up my rifle but I would love to get more people interested in the sport. When the collapse of civilization comes, the only people left are going to be those willing to fend for themselves and live off the land. Hunting is a good skill to have and fun to cultivate and it is a good way to explore some different cuisine. Hunting is also a good way to spend time with my father, the original gun-geek in the family.


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Background
My father was a Sergeant in the Army and served through Vietnam. His father was in the Marines and spent time in North Africa and Korea and retired before Vietnam. In a fit of teenage rebellion, I joined the Air Force and washed out shortly thereafter because they discovered I could not distinguish between green and yellow (sometimes even red). The Air Force generally wants people to be able to find which wire is which color so that no-one turns on the air-conditioning and finds themselves over the jungle hanging from their parachute. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed as I had grown up helping my father work on his Triumph and I wanted nothing more than to spend the rest of my life working on engines. Fortunately for me, my father had seen fit to sell some of his guns which he had collected and buy a computer, which contributed to my current career in technology. The other thing he had given me was the skills to shoot from having a rifle so early in my life.

My brother and I (my sister came too late) grew up shooting 22 caliber bolt action rifles. 22 cal is nice to shoot, reasonably accurate for the novice shooter and it probably is the cheapest ammo you can buy. For comparison, a 22 cal bullet is probably about the size of a small pea, and the shell is no longer than three or four centimeters. There is almost no recoil or noise shooting a 22 cal bullet from most rifles which makes it a very mild round to practice good shooting techniques with.

Learning to Shoot
At 10, learning to control breathing, heart-rate and finding the subtle nuances of my own body was far from my mind. There was a coffee-can sitting on the stack of railroad ties which served as the backstop and it made a nice hollow thump when the round struck it. This was back when you could still find steel coffee cans; the new aluminum ones simply do not have the same resonance. Sometimes it was a balloon, or a light bulb which had burnt out. Soda cans worked, but I had found them hard to hit in the same way my father did which sent them soaring. I later would figure out that my father was cheating and that his 30-06 bullet -- which imparted many times the force that my 22 bullet did -- caused a proportional reaction. This would be important later. The basics were easy enough; I put the pole on the front sight into the notch on the rear sight so the ball on the pole was resting in the half-circle of the rear sight and made sure it covered up the target. A quick yank on the trigger and hopefully the can made a metallic thump.

The sight-picture was right but I was missing the nuances. At 12 I had figured out that my eyes grew dim if I held my breath too long, but I was tall enough that I could no longer ignore the wobble from my own lungs. Yanking the trigger had become squeezing it as my hands grew stronger and could exert five pounds of force with my single finger. I had noticed that there was a notch in the seer of the rifle which allowed me to squeeze things just enough that the kinetic energy sat on edge, but no further so that it unleashed itself. In my mind, it was a cracking ball of energy being fired from my shoulder, down the lightning rod my rifle had become, and out the front of the barrel instantly arcing through the air to hit the target. I would draw in my breath, focus on the front sight, bring the rear sight in to cup it and center it on the fuzz of the black paper target and squeeze. A sharp crack followed, and if I had maintained a good, steadily increasing pressure with my finger, I would be rewarded with a hole through the 10 ring of the target. Another year would come and I became interested in cars and driving and slowly abandoned the rifle after winning a few awards in Scouts. Things would come full circle when I discovered the magic of the turbocharger. Instead of 15 PSI, I wanted to play with 15,000 PSI, and the rifle re-entered my life. I relearned these skills quickly. Focus. Breathe. Squeeze. I was ready for more interesting targets and some variety and reward for shooting more than holes in paper. I became interested in hunting...

Squirrels
The squirrel is a member of the rodent family (genus sciuridae). Check your local laws for how to apply for a hunting license and if you can apply for a hunting license in your area for squirrels. They are amusing little creatures and come in a variety of sizes and colors. Most of them have large, bushy tails, and the most common variety is the grey squirrel with its grey-coat and tail about the same size as its body. The next most common one is a black squirrel, which has a tail slightly larger than its body and is a tad smaller than the grey squirrel. Beyond that is a red squirrel, which is smaller still but keeps the large tail, and the rarest squirrel of all is a white squirrel. The white squirrels are an albino mutation and may occur in any squirrel colony, including setting up their own colony if there's a particularly high instance of white squirrels in a given area. Squirrels are not picky about mating, so it is not uncommon to see grey squirrels with a red stripe, or black squirrels with a grey stripe. Do not hunt animals with black with white stripes, these are not squirrels.

Squirrels are opportunity scavengers, which is to say that they eat just about anything and are just as content finding food as they are returning to known-plots. A squirrel diet consists mainly of local farming (corn, greens, oats, etc) and fruit or nut bearing trees (acorns, walnuts, even pinecones). These animals have happily learned to co-exist with humans and will also eat fried foods and prefer crunchy items or fatty items such as peanut butter, puffed cheese chips, or potato chips. Squirrels do not enjoy spicy items and sprinkling ground hot pepper or similar products such as Tabasco around trouble spots will make for a squirrel-free area in short order.

Hunting
The squirrel social life is fairly lonely. A squirrel will typically become pregnant and bear two or three young (kit or kitten, male or female) squirrels into her nest (drey) which is typically a mess of dried leaves and other papery cast-offs perched in a tree. The male squirrel will go off to find the next pretty young thing to mate with while the female squirrel is left to gather food and nurse the young. The young, unsupervised and virtually blind, do occasionally fall out of the dreys and usually die from the impact. A good indication of an active drey during the birthing season is to look for tufts of fur or even dead kits and kittens below or near the nests. An active nest after the birthing season will have dry leaves and other nest refuse lying below it, in addition to having a fair amount of squirrel traffic coming in and going out of it until the kits and kittens are big enough to set out on their own.

As a result of the squirrel's solitary lifestyle, squirrels generally are not vocal creatures. Kits and kittens follow their mothers around learning the smells of food (and what is not food) but there is no colony social structure the way lions or deer have an alpha male and a harem of does. Squirrels have a distress call, which sounds like a high pitched squeak similar to a rusty hinge on a door and they have a chatter which serves as a challenge call if two males are fighting over food or a female. Kits and kittens flee from either call, and female squirrels may be attracted to either call. Males generally flee at the distress call and are attracted to a challenge call. Female squirrels, however, are usually homebodies and do not stray far from their dreys. This makes it unlikely that a particular squirrel you see will be attracted to the distress call but squirrels may poke their heads out to investigate a challenge-chatter. My personal experience is that squirrel-calls only serve to alert the squirrels of my presence and this is not advantageous to hunting them.

We already know what squirrels eat, and what squirrels do not eat, and we know that squirrels generally are solitary, quiet creatures. From here, we can set off into the woods and actually begin looking for squirrels. A good place to start is the drey, which will tip you off to about how many squirrels are in a given area. If you happen across a strong population, there should be a drey every few trees or so. These are not always occupied with squirrels as they are fairly transient, but this means that food is likely to be around somewhere. Now you want to fan out. We happen to have plenty of oak trees in my area so my brother and I usually look for split acorns on the ground. Other fruit or nut bearing trees will do fine (including a pine with green pine-cones, not mature brown cones) but oaks are by far the easiest to find around here.

If you do find an oak, observe the acorns under it. Are there many whole acorns? If so, this tree may be too new for squirrels to be using as a food source. If the acorns are split open and their shells are lying around under the tree, then you have found a tree the squirrels are using for food. For pines, look for green pine-cones the squirrels have dropped and forgotten about. For fruit trees, you should find the pits of the fruits lying around under the tree. If there is scat also around the base of the tree, than larger animals -- rather than squirrels -- are browsing the tree and moving on. For corn, just about everything eats corn so camp out the field. Pay particular attention to the tops of stalks, you should easily be able to see the stalks dance as squirrels climb up them for the kernels. Have you found a viable food plot but you cannot find any squirrel-sign? Pay attention to what is near the food plot. Pepper-corns, skunk-cabbage and milkweed irritate squirrels and squirrels will avoid food plots in close proximity to these plants.

Once you find a source of food which has squirrel sign, the waiting begins. This is often the hardest part. Squirrels will have surely detected your scouting and gone to hide. If you have trained your eye to see them, sometimes this can be advantageous because the squirrels will be pressing themselves against branches and holding still. For most of us, there will be a 15 to 30 minute wait before squirrels start moving around again. The best position is one which allows you to see the complete food source, but allows you enough distance that the wind will not carry your scent across the path from the drey to the food and obscures you enough that the animals cannot see your face or outline. Be sure to use this time scouting and waiting to look for signs of other hunters which include flags and at very least orange clothes. Squirrels do not have particularly good eyesight, so use orange liberally. Hopefully in 15 to 30 minutes, you will see a squirrel crawling along the ground following the scent of food or leaping tree to tree in a hurry to eat and return to the young.

Taking the Shot
You should already know how to aim the rifle and be confident and comfortable with its operation. The trick to taking a shot is to get your body under control and remember to take a supported shot. Shots come in two types: unsupported and supported. Unsupported shots are generally OK in situations where the hunter kicks up large game (such as deer) which has a large target area. The vital organs on a deer occupy a space slightly smaller than volume of a basketball. Taking a shot from a stand with little prep can be done by the experienced shooter who has a steady hand, good aim and a decent gun. On the other hand, squirrel vitals are only in the upper half of the body and the top half of the head. The second type of shot is a supported shot. The hunter will take this type of shot when the rifle is supported by some means. The difference between the two on small game is the difference between getting the kill and a miss, or worse, wounded game. Some hunters prefer to bring along shooting sticks which can be crossed and held to the rifle with the forward hand. I personally prefer to just take hold of the nearest tree and rest the rifle on the flesh of my palm at my thumb. Do not rest the barrel of the rifle against your hand. This is a suggestion easy to forget in the heat of the moment, but you will be the coolest guy in the office come Monday with a burn across the back of your palm. Before you take any shot, consider where the bullet is going. Do not fire towards buildings or the sky. Do check for orange or the local hunter safety color before taking a shot.

Rest the rifle against a tree, across a log (if you are prone) or between the support sticks. Make smooth, slow movements so as to not alert game to your presence. If the squirrel is foraging along the ground, it will be making small hops from place to place, smelling the earth for small insects or buried food. When the squirrel finds something that might be food, the animal will pick it up and examine it. The squirrel may try to eat it. While the squirrel is examining its find, it will be standing still and usually upright. This is the moment to take the shot. If the squirrel is up in a tree, wait until the squirrel is climbing up or down the trunk. Squirrels typically follow a spiral pattern down the trunk and pause at branches. Take the shot when the squirrel pauses. If the squirrel does not immediately drop off the tree, wait a bit for the corpse to relax and it will come down soon enough. A hit to the head results in instant death and the squirrel should fall over dead. A hit to the neck usually results in the squirrel bleeding out and may require some fishing through the brush to find the animal. A hit to the upper portion of the chest results in massive damage to the heart and lungs which usually causes death within 15 seconds. Hitting the squirrel any lower then the upper third of its body results in an injured animal but the wound is far from terminal. It also generally causes separation of the bowel and damage to the liver which ruins the meat. The animal will usually crawl to where it feels hidden. Hopefully you can approach the animal and make a terminal shot. Not only does this waste ammo, but the meat may now be spoiled from the feces. Please do your best to make terminal shots in an effort to give the animals a good death and keep the meat in good condition. Do you want to eat meat filled with feces? Retrieve dead squirrels as soon as possible as other predators will collect the body if you wait too long. Dead squirrels also generally alert other squirrels in the area that there is something hunting them and will make other squirrels cautious or leave the area altogether. Bring a backpack filled with plastic bags and ice along. In another 15 minutes, the squirrels will be back out and you can shoot again!

Cleaning and Skinning
Once you return home, you have several options for your squirrels. You can throw the squirrels out. There is nothing illegal about it, but I personally feel that this is a waste of the meat, pelt and the animal's life. You can taxidermy the pelt, but squirrels have small, pliable bones which make getting the pelt off the body in one piece a challenge. If you do go this route, you should be familiar with skinning the squirrel. Cut along the belly and remove the liver and bowels. Turn the squirrel inside-out, cut off the feet as low as you can peel the skin back, and then buy a mounting kit. I prefer "squirrel sitting". Leave the squirrel on top of your books at the office, bonus points for installing red-LEDs in the eyes and wiring it to your phone. The final option is to actually eat the squirrel. To skin the squirrel, bring the body up to room temperature and ensure that the body is pliable. Now is a good time to inspect the body for damage. Is the squirrel foaming at the mouth and eyes? Are the eyes clouded and grey? Does the pelt have spots of missing fur or an infestation of ticks? If any of these are true, the animal was diseased and not fit to eat. Wrap the animal in a plastic bag and dispose of the body in the trash. Wash thoroughly before touching anything else, including the next squirrel. I suggest using a razor-blade to skin the squirrel as a knife is generally too large.

To skin a squirrel with the intention of eating it, first get a pair of meat scissors or a sharp knife and also a razor blade. You will need a pot of water and a trashcan. Fill a second, larger pot with water and add a teaspoon of salt per cup of water. Both pots should be lukewarm. Lay down newspapers and plan to skin the animal outside. The smell is wholly unique, and having worked for an ambulance crew, I can safely say that the inside of all animals pretty much smells the same. The smell is terrible. Wash the squirrel in the unsalted water. This pot will wash off all the loose fur and miscellaneous dirt. The remaining fur will clump up and this serves to keep it on the outside of the skin, away from the meat. The fur should easily separate by rubbing the squirrel towards the head and tail leaving you a clear space to cut along. Using your razor, cut lightly along the squirrel as though you were separating the skin into "shirt" and "pants" sections. Try not to cut into the muscles or organs. If the corpse is warm and pliable, the skin should separate easily. Pull the front half over the head and down the arms. The wrists should be positioned in line with the neck, which allows you to cut along the wrists and lob the head (and fur) off in one clean cut with your large knife. The bottom half of the fur should pull over the anus of the squirrel and down to the feet. The intestines will pull with the anus and should have the trailing tissue pull the rest of the organs out. Some massaging of the connective tissue may be required to get the organs out. Cut the feet off at the ankles and throw the mass of pelt, organs and feet into the trash. If you have pets, these are safe to feed the pets who will usually eat everything except the intestines. If the intestines separate from the anus or stomach, try to minimize the amount of feces which gets onto the meat. The first squirrel anyone skins is always a mess, so bring along the soap and water to clean the meat if anything gets on it. Visually inspect the skinned squirrel for fur (which will not wash off) and place the skinned squirrel in the pot of salted water. Let this pot of squirrels sit for at least 8 hours in the fridge.

Cooking
After 8 hours or so in the fridge, or more like 24 if you work and wish to bring 'normal' food to the office, the water should be cloudy with blood and the squirrels should be significantly lighter. They should look like chicken but be firmer to the touch. Flesh which is black or abraded should be cut off at this time and discarded. Generally the entrance and exit wounds will be obviously bruised and the meat does not cook well. Squirrels are white meat so any recipe that you have enjoyed for chicken translates well into being a recipe for squirrel. Squirrel meat is similar to chicken although slightly less greasy (it is sweeter) and the mouthfeel is firmer. It should not have a 'gamey' taste, which usually means that some of the bowel spilled on the meat and was not properly cleaned. Squirrel goes well boiled and quartered and placed in salad and also is delicious fried in light oils and breaded.

My Father's Favorite Squirrel Recipe

  • 3 squirrels, quartered
  • Creole seasoning
  • 2 strips bacon, cut up
  • 1/2 stick butter
  • 1 onion, chopped
  • 4 cloves garlic, finely chopped
  • 2 bell peppers, chopped
  • 2 stalks celery, chopped
  • 3 potatoes, cubed
  • 5 cups water
  • 1/4 cup burgundy wine
  1. Rub the creole seasoning liberally over the squirrels.
  2. In a dutch oven, melt the butter. Add the bacon.
  3. Add the squirrel to the dutch oven and brown evenly. Remove.
  4. To the dutch oven, add the onion, garlic, peppers and celery. Saute until the veggies are soft.
  5. Add the meat back to the pot along with the water and potatoes. Stir together.
  6. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and simmer 1 1/2 hours stirring occasionally.
  7. Remove the squirrel pieces. Cool and debone.
  8. Return meat to the pot. Stir in the wine. Heat to boiling again then reduce heat and simmer 10 minutes.
  9. Serve over biscuits or toast.

Recipe provided by Backwoods Bound

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Poll
Squirrels are...
o delicious! 45%
o animals, and should respected, not be killed! 25%
o disgusting vermin! 3%
o Kosher. 25%

Votes: 31
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o sciuridae
o mounting kit
o Backwoods Bound
o Also by t1ber


Display: Sort:
Hunting Squirrel: The Other White Meat | 295 comments (227 topical, 68 editorial, 0 hidden)
What does squirrel taste like? (2.50 / 2) (#3)
by IceTitan on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:31:10 AM EST


Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
tastes like chicken /nt (none / 0) (#5)
by terryfunk on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:51:36 AM EST



I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown
The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

[ Parent ]
Hm (none / 1) (#6)
by debacle on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:58:55 AM EST

Sort of like a mix between deer and duck/pheasant, leaning more towards the duck. Kind of.

You can pick up jerky of all sorts of things at your local farmers market, more than likely.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

debacle has it right (none / 0) (#40)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:43:55 PM EST

Take the mouth-feel of dry, dark meat (which is why most cookbooks featuring squirrel also suggest bacon or a crock pot full of some beef or chicken stock) but instead substitute the taste of white meat chicken.

Squirrels have very little fat during hunting season so the meat can be dry, but it's like a sweet, dry  chicken.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

tenderizing (none / 0) (#101)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:31:35 PM EST

Part of the reason of soaking in salt is to help tenderize the meat (in addition to bleeding the blood out a bit).

You can also put it in a bag and pound it on the counter for a while after soaking it in the salt water to help increase its tenderness. A low-temperature cook (instead of a fast, high-temp) works best.
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.
[ Parent ]

supposedly like chicken.... (none / 0) (#126)
by moondancer on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:42:12 PM EST

but...if you look into their big brown eyes, they will taste like...ummm...squirrel...
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
supposedly like chicken.... (none / 0) (#127)
by moondancer on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:42:40 PM EST

but...if you look into their big brown eyes, they will taste like...ummm...squirrel...
**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Hey! let's go squirrel hunting.... (2.75 / 4) (#4)
by terryfunk on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:39:27 AM EST

I haven't been in a long time. I miss it too. My courtyard is full of FAT doves too. I have been eyeing them for 10 years. I have them real fattened up too. It would be sportin'. +1 FP when it gets to voting.

I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown
The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

So, when will the squirrel and (none / 1) (#19)
by miznorthernlites on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:23:56 AM EST

dove pie be ready??? just make sure you clean all the feathers and fur off..would hate to get something like those stuck in my throat..

[ Parent ]
but but but! (none / 0) (#43)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:00:55 PM EST

But the fur and feathers hold the crust of the pie on! What will we use without fur and feathers?!

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

huh (2.87 / 8) (#8)
by loteck on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:46:41 AM EST

you're kinda weird
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

Don't eat the brains (none / 1) (#10)
by alphaxer0 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:41:11 AM EST

They've been linked to the same disease caused by mad cow.

you got to the part about lobbing off the head? (none / 1) (#35)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:34:14 PM EST

right? please tell me it's clear that you don't eat the head. Or stew it.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

yeah (none / 0) (#51)
by alphaxer0 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:12:38 PM EST

but that doesn't change the fact that brains are a southern comfort food.

[ Parent ]
Brains (none / 1) (#112)
by Xptic on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:57:19 PM EST

When we used to slaughter pigs, we'd scramble the brains with eggs and have that in an omlette the next morning.
There were also rumours that the beef slaughterhouse used to serve fried slices of cow brain on toast for lunch.
Of course, The South also brought such wonderful delecacies as chitterlings.

[ Parent ]
Southerners == Zombies (none / 1) (#162)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:05:06 AM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Zombies (none / 0) (#214)
by Xptic on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:43:55 PM EST

That would explain why they all want to follow Zombie Jesus.

[ Parent ]
Used to have... (none / 0) (#223)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:21:28 PM EST

...sheep brains regularly when I was a kid. Deep-fried... mmm.

Of course, then there's scrapie. Apparently non-transmissable to humans, though. Yay for me not being a brain-dead crazy person!
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

How could you submit a story about squirrels to k5 (2.50 / 2) (#14)
by wiredog on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:49:17 AM EST

and not include this vital information!

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

Hmmm... (2.50 / 2) (#17)
by Sairon on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:59:29 AM EST

I haven't been squirrel hunting in a long time. I've been more focused on big game. Your article has me a bit motivated now. However, I usually hunt them with 20 gauge shotgun. My father hunts them with a .22 because he likes it to be more challenging. Perhaps I should get such a rifle. I've found that in the past few years I've become quite skilled at hunting and need to do different things to make it more exciting.


It really depends on your style (none / 1) (#32)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:31:24 PM EST

I have found that I can't hit anything, small or large, with a shotgun.  Whatever the mechanics of it are, they elude me.

My father, and his father, were riflemen (as I tried to establish in the story) so they didn't bother with the shotgun.  As a result, they didn't go hunting for birds much.  They each carried a 30-06 rifle, usually military surplus, and prefered to find a good patch and hide.

On the other hand, having been hunting with a shotgun (and going home empty handed), it's decidedly different.  Instead of finding a good place to hide with a rest for the rifle, my buddies would stalk in a line.  If they kicked something up, they immediately shot at it and used the spread to knock the animal down.

If you prefer moving around when you hunt, the shotgun will probably do you well.  If you prefer to sit and watch or move slowly, the rifle will treat you better with it's longer range.

If you're like me and can't use a shotgun for shit, you don't have much choice.  ;)

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

On history... (none / 1) (#44)
by Sairon on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:17:41 PM EST

Historically it wasn't until recently that members of my family could afford rifles. My grandfather hunted deer with a shotgun. The history of rifle marksmanship therefore does not extend as far as shotguns. I however, grew up shooting both. It was always just the general rule that shotguns were for small game, and rifles for large game. My father is a bit of an anomally, having become very proficient at hunting, likes to change things up a bit. He now hunts squirrel with a .22 and deer with either the smallest rifle legal in our state, a .243, or a .44 Magnum revolver. He's even been known to use blackpowder rifles.

With all that in mind, I hunt squirrel in exactly the same manner as you have described that you do, but I do it with a shotgun. I have a 20 guage with a full choke and use high power rounds.  The effect is a shotgun effective out to 50 meters with a tight group that does little damage to the target, but manages to kill instantly.


[ Parent ]

ah ha! Blackpowder! (none / 0) (#77)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 06:55:59 PM EST

I'm planning on doing a reloading article in a bit if this one is well taken, so keep your eyes peeled for stuff in that line...

If your father is good enough to hunt deer with a revolver, my hats off to him.  It's hard enough to find deer, but getting a steady enough hand for a shot at range is impressive to say the least.

How hard is it to get the lead out of the squirrel?

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

sad... (none / 0) (#108)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:43:45 PM EST

prepare for that article to be voted down in flames, unfortunately.

in the mean time, people over here on the forums owuld likely be interested, if you'd want to join...
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.
[ Parent ]

Hard to fnd deer? (none / 0) (#161)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:04:01 AM EST

Jesus. Come sit on my front porch for an hour around dusk. It'll only be hard to find them if you keep your eyes closed very tightly. And even then, merely "hard," not impossible. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Yes, Blackpowder... (none / 0) (#194)
by Sairon on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:19:18 PM EST

A reloading article would be cool. We usually reload our .270 win hunting rounds. I'm starting to learn quite a bit about ammunition that I never knew before. I've done some reading on the three phases of ballistics. There's a subject of geekery. Eventually I'd like to load for my pistol, a CZ-52. Most rounds for it are 85 grains, and I'd like to make something more in the 110 grain area that won't just punch straight through living targets. That's another story altogether.

Yes, my father is quite the outdoorsman. I hope to follow in his footsteps in that regard. Keep in mind he hunts with Ruger Super Redhawk with a 10" barrel chambered in .44 Magnum. You can easily reach out and touch things at 100m. It also has a 3x scope.

Getting the lead out of the squirrel with my 20 guage is easy. It doesn't usually get very far in, i.e. most of the lead is between the skin and the first layer of muscle. On average, only one or two BB's actually puncture muscle. I have the feeling that its the total trauma that kills them, as opposed to a BB piercing an organ.

[ Parent ]

Geekery (none / 0) (#201)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:50:43 PM EST

The topics I was planning on including in it were:
  1.  Choice of rounds (military caliber, "buy or reload?" which applies to your pistol)
  2.  Finding good information (the more obscoure rounds such as 9MM-Tokarev vary wildly, the +P trend, etc)
  3.  Bullet choice (jacketed, semi-jacketed, bare, boattail, roundtail, pointed, "casting your own" etc)
  4.  Primer choice (Boxer Primed, Brendan Primed, Orcutt Primed for the history snobs, primer pockets)
  5.  Pressure on the barrel and all the math there
  6.  What to look for in making an accurate hand load
  7.  Changes in shooting dyanmics based on the construction of the rifle over repeated firings (gunsmithing 101)
  8.  shooting at a distance:  thinking about wind, angle, etc

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Question (none / 1) (#68)
by debacle on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:50:16 PM EST

"If they kicked something up, they immediately shot at it ..."

Before or after identifying it?

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

WINGLESS QUAILTARDS (none / 0) (#79)
by LittleZephyr on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:02:22 PM EST


(\♥/) What if instead of posting that comment,
(0.-) you had actually taken a knife and stabbed
("_") me in the eye? You murderer. ~ Rusty

[ Parent ]
ah, good question (none / 0) (#82)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:12:11 PM EST

Most likely you or someone you know has l33t-twitch-gaming-sKills.

The shotgun people who hunt like this (Sairon hunts in a more "rifle" style I suppose) are very careful to 'keep the line' as it's called.  Which is to say that they all stay 90 degrees off one another in a straight line so you know which direction you absolutely must not be shooting in.  Dick Cheney recently showed us all exactly how not to do it.  That is to say communication was poor, he wasn't checking colors, he was not aware of where all the members of his party were and he was way too fast on the trigger.

He should have been aware of where each member of the line was so that anything that they kicked up would have a clear shoot or no-shoot zones.  It's pretty simple:  If the animal is inside the line (there is someone standing behind the animal or between you and the animal), don't shoot it.  If the animal is flushed outside of the line, shoot it.  Since you can keep track of the line at all times, there's no reason not to know exactly where the lines are the moment the animal is flushed.

That being said, Pennsylvania has small-game season.  The official list by species and dates is here  Squirrels, groundhogs, pheasant, rabbit, quail and fox all generally have overlapping seasons and hence "small game season".  The trick to figuring out which one you're likely to flush from which area is to pay attention to the foliage.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Rifle Choice (none / 1) (#110)
by Xptic on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:48:42 PM EST

Personally, I think the "thirth-ought-six" is a bit overkill for most hunting.  A .22 for most small game and a 22-250 for anything up to, and including, deer.

My uncle was of the idea that the 22-250 will deflect if you shoot at a deer through brush.  I responded that he shouldn't be shooting through brush anyway.  His retort?  He downed another beer and grabbed his .50 pistol and his 30-06 and headed into the woods.

Anyway, small caliber, large grain, and some good optics will always make for a clean kill.

[ Parent ]

LOL @ BEER (none / 0) (#115)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:05:55 PM EST

Well, the reason behind 30-06 is because my grandfather was hit pretty hard by The Depression and the only things they had was the farm and the service.

The 30-06 has been through most of the worlds conflicts, they made hundreds of thousands of them, and the brass is cheap and plentiful.  It's also been documented to hell and back for powder charge versus bullet grain, etc.  That combination made it attractive for my father and his father to reload and ensured that the information on powder and primer was good and that the loads were accurate.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Yeah (2.66 / 3) (#21)
by psychologist on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:11:42 AM EST

I remember the kids used to do this back when I was a child -- but with cats.

You should talk with my dad (3.00 / 2) (#30)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:20:12 PM EST

One year?

no small game.

Why?  Cats fucking like it's COOL.

Solution?  Cats become small game.  We eat Chinese Food for weeks.

Next year?

SQUIRRELS OUT THE WAZOO.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

you have toxoplasmosis gondii from eating cats (3.00 / 4) (#62)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:32:53 PM EST

it shows in your writing style

how do i know?

just look at what growing up rural in a farmhouse occupied and surrounded by 10-30 cats did to me

cough! ack! THPPPPTT


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You depress me (3.00 / 2) (#100)
by godix on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:29:46 PM EST

cough! ack! THPPPPTT

I recognize this. I feel almost as pathetic for getting it as you must feel for using it.

More CORN!

[ Parent ]
BILL THE CAT BLOOM COUNTY YOU OLD MAN!nt (none / 0) (#117)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:21:08 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Huh? (none / 1) (#204)
by Basselope on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:38:16 PM EST

Nobody ever remembers me...

[ Parent ]
come to new york city's central park (2.45 / 11) (#22)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:13:40 AM EST

the squirrels here are practically tame, they come up to you waiting to be fed

you don't even need a gun, you can just grab them with your hands and wring their necks

although, of course, you would have to deal with the city idiots who don't even know what the relationship between their hamburger and their critter is

my favorite scene in central park was watching one of our red tail hawks (there are a number of them in the city, one of which has a feverish cult following) launch upon a hapless squirrel, and watching the surprised shock of bystanders

as if being introduced to the concept that some animals eat other animals for the first time in their sheltered coddled ignorant lives

ps, we caught a coyote here yesterday, and it apparently made international headlines

how the HELL that coyote got into central park is anyone's guess. he would have to swim through the hudson river/ east river (salt water, swiftly flowing) or take a BRIDGE, then skip a number of other parks skirting the island's perimeter, and travel a mile or two of densely populated/ car traffiked city blocks at all hours, to the center of the island

i think he was dropped there, had to be

then again, they once caught a deer on a subway platform here in the city once (did it take the train from the boroughs?) and another coyote was caught in central park in 1999, so perhaps the lesson is for me: nature conquers all


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

You would be AMAZED... (none / 1) (#29)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:18:48 PM EST

First off, I don't think anyone is going to take any special notice of gunfire in New York.  ;)

But deer, and squirrels, and I see now coyotes adapt remarkably well to civilization.  I live in Philadelphia but hunt my grandfathers plot up state in Pine Grove(? they don't really have townships up there) and passing through valley forge it's obvious to me that PEOPLE FEED THE ANIMALS TOO GODDAMN MUCH.

The problem, for people who don't get it as the tourists clearly don't, is that deer generally have babies in pairs or triples but two of the young die.  This encourages genetic diversity since it's unlikely that the same buck will mate with the same doe several times.  When you don't lose half the next generation to disease and starvation, the deer become less interested in mating due to food competition from the exploding population and the gene pool thins.

I'm seriously waiting for bird-flu to come by and destroy the deer population up there.  There will be no deer for three years, then they'll be back...  and people will feed them again...

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

dude (none / 1) (#33)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:32:17 PM EST

First off, I don't think anyone is going to take any special notice of gunfire in New York. ;)

please update your ignorant stereotype of new york city to somewhere past, oh, 1985

it's been awhile since bernie goetz, graffiti on the subways, and heroin addicts/ prostititutes in times square

it's more like singapore now

seriously


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

do you have canings? ;) (none / 0) (#41)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:49:11 PM EST

Was the deer in the subway a one-off thing or did a herd of deer in central park go into the subway tunnels because they're warm?

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

sorry for the confusion ;-P (none / 0) (#42)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:55:42 PM EST

the deer was on an ELEVATED subway platform, outside

i can see how the confusion of how i wrote it could imply that they were down underground, sorry

but that implies it had to walk up loud rickety stairs, which is not as weird as going underground, but still weird

we only see deer-sized rats down there ;-P


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Coyotes in DC, too. (3.00 / 2) (#46)
by wiredog on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:27:43 PM EST

There's some in Rock Creek Park, and they're all over the suburbs. Hopefully that will result in a drop in the goose population hereabouts.

And in the number of cats and small dogs that people allow to run loose.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]

f***ing canadian geese (3.00 / 1) (#47)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:33:44 PM EST

canadian geese are proof that canada is waging covert biological war on the usa


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
maple trees, too (3.00 / 2) (#53)
by Adam Rightmann on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:22:04 PM EST

Every year I have to pull up hundreds of maple saplings, they're infiltrating my yard like commie gook wannabees. And the leaf on the Canadian flag is...

[ Parent ]
canadian biological warfare! (none / 0) (#54)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:34:04 PM EST

invade!

we should be in igloolik by what, lunchtime tomorrow?

;-P

ah canada, america's cute little retarded friend

how i love abusing canadian identity

it fulfills all of my sadistic impulses of picking on the weak to a tee


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Can't you just mow them? (none / 1) (#147)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:09:56 AM EST

Maple saplings grow pretty slowly. And the ones you do pull out just get replaced by more maple seeds the next year. I usually just give them a mow. It seems to accomplish the same thing.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
They know the gardens are freemower zones (none / 0) (#205)
by Adam Rightmann on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:40:09 PM EST

like the Commies who boldly drove down the Ho Chi Minh Trail in neutral Laos, the maples wait in the gardens and in the small fenced off section that may not be anyone's yard, biding their time until our vigilance fails.

They know that once enough maples sprout and grow into a forest, the beavers, polar bears, and Mounties won't be far behind, spreading their dogma of homosexualist marriage, socialized medicine, legal marijuana and curling. It's tough to live on a frontier.

[ Parent ]

which would you rather have (none / 0) (#49)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 03:01:06 PM EST

Tons of fat coyotes eating everything which will eventually move onto the trashcans or the pets and geese?

That's sort of a tough choice, but I'm personally for having the birds since they're a lot smaller and don't have teeth...

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

but coyotes (3.00 / 2) (#56)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:42:17 PM EST

are more thoughtful about where they shit

and i LOATHE little yapping dogs

in fact, if coyotes ate the little yapping dogs efficiently, i mght consider breeding/ importing coyotes and releasing them strategically

nope, hands down, i'd rather have coyotes everywhere

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

IAWTP (none / 1) (#69)
by debacle on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:55:49 PM EST

In my childhood, I used to dive off of the large boulders skirting the edges of Sugar Bay on the Kinzua Reservoir.

Well, that was until the geez decided to coat every fucking molecule of stone with green and charcoal shit.

coyotes are actually pretty innocuous. I don't think they'd take out a small dog.

You could, however, breed bobcats.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

arms race (none / 1) (#71)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 06:04:53 PM EST

once coyotes become problematic, we have to introduce timber wolves

but that actually ends the arms race

because the timber wolves will take us down after they dispatch the coyotes

hmmm, i have to restrategize this whole scenario


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Kinzua (none / 0) (#235)
by /dev/trash on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 07:02:51 PM EST

Is that in the NY side or the PA side?  I sued to summer up north and I can't for the life of me remember Sugar Bay.

---
Updated 02/20/2004
New Site
[ Parent ]
found (none / 0) (#236)
by /dev/trash on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:06:56 PM EST

I was fiddling around with Google Earth and saw that it's slightly upstream from Jakes Rocks.

---
Updated 02/20/2004
New Site
[ Parent ]
I'm with cts (none / 1) (#64)
by khallow on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:44:38 PM EST

Coyotes all the way.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

Geese are vicious (none / 1) (#136)
by wiredog on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:01:14 AM EST

and liklier to attack people than coyotes.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]
Balls (none / 1) (#142)
by Xptic on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:53:47 AM EST

Geese are only vicious because people have no balls.

First off, a goose isn't exactly a cunning strategist.  They tend to come right for you.  They have big bodies and, as long as you don't get distracted by the wings, make great kicking targets.

On top of that, bird bones are very fragile.  I swift kick under the wing in the chest will break ribs.  Fucking ouch!

On top of that, they have those long, slender necks.  They like to use their wings as a distraction while their heads swing on the end of those snake-like necks.  However, coupled with the fact that they are dumb, they are fairly easy to grab by said neck.

Once you have a hold on the neck, you have two choices, you can take the mostly harmless wing flogging until the bird gives up.  Or, you can quickly snap your wrist counter-clockwise (for right-handers, left handers adjust accordingly) for the fatality.

Once you have killed one, use it's limp body as a club to chase the rest away.

BTW, this is much easier if you work in pairs.  One distracts the bird while the other goes for the kill.

The best thing I ever saw WRT a goose?  One went for a little girl and some lady shot the fucker with a taser.  OMG, what a fucking riot that was.  Some tree-hugging hippy tried to get a cop to arrest her for cruelty, but the bushy-pitted woman was quickly silenced by true red-blooded 'Mericans who told the true story.

The goose, unfortunately, recovered.  I guess having a brain the size of single keyboard key has its advantages.

[ Parent ]

wtf (none / 0) (#262)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:28:21 PM EST

I hope that one day you are fully set upon in an open space by a large crowd of geese, just so that you have the opportunity of putting your little theories into action.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
yeah right, t-1ber (2.83 / 6) (#24)
by creativedissonance on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:17:04 AM EST

"At 10 ... finding the subtle nuances of my own body was far from my mind.  "

Bullshit.  I bet you masturbated like a fiend.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n

HOW DID YOU KNOW? (3.00 / 1) (#27)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:13:58 PM EST

Mostly it was to pictures of your mother, but early experimentation showed your father was willing also.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

I always knew you were gay, t-1ber (3.00 / 5) (#28)
by creativedissonance on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:17:51 PM EST

but now I know that you're gay AND you lack taste taboot.  Well done!


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
Isn't a gun a little overkill for squirrels? (2.80 / 5) (#25)
by LilDebbie on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:16:11 PM EST

Aren't traps more appropriate? I imagine a body shot would wreck most of the meat, even with a .22.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

Not really, it's generally clean (none / 0) (#26)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:11:44 PM EST

Since there's so little meat on the ribs (you generally eat the legs), the body shot only destroys a very thin layer of meat over the ribs. If you're boiling the squirrel with the intent of stewing it or similar, you can discard the exit side of the ribcage where the bullet (now deformed and moving much slower) stopped making a clean hole and started making a mess.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Numbers (none / 0) (#107)
by Xptic on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:43:41 PM EST

On top of that, you are usually taking down at least a half-dozen of these critters at once.  When you are cleaning them, you take the ruined ones and feed them to the dogs.

[ Parent ]
I think you're full of crap. (none / 1) (#50)
by Ignore Amos on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 03:30:02 PM EST

Green-yellow colorblind? Quite the physiological anomaly you are ...

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero

it happens (3.00 / 2) (#55)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:41:39 PM EST

Being colorblind is more like having a vague impression of the differences between the colors but none of them are particularly distinct. I just happened to get called on cross-wiring a yellow and green wire. It could have easilly been red and brown, or blue and black. I can tell very disparate colors apart such as dayglo-orange and green, but I can't tell the difference between banana-yellow and banana-green.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Do you have cone monochromacy? /nt (none / 0) (#61)
by Ignore Amos on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:21:32 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

I have... no fucking clue (3.00 / 2) (#72)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 06:06:25 PM EST

I intentionally didn't get it diagnosed realizing that it would affect my service.  The status quo was to grow up, get out of highschool, spend some time in the service, then get a job.  My dad's dad had done that, my father had done that, and he spoke highly of the service and seemed to make an OK life for us so I was going to do that.

But, at the time, I realize that the plan was to find a job working on engines as soon as possible.  Who has the biggest and most fun engines?  Either NASA or the Air Force, and one of those isn't going to employ a highschool grad.  The choice seemed pretty simple at the time.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Colour "blindness"... (none / 0) (#221)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:54:19 PM EST

...is usually separated by doctors into red-green and yellow-blue, but as anybody who has it can tell you, it's not usually so clear-cut.

I lack red-green colour sensitivity, but while I'm quite capable of seeing red and green, I have trouble with intermediate colours - greenish-browns, light pinks, purples, that sort of thing.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

is there such a thing as color (none / 0) (#251)
by cunt minded on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 02:48:55 PM EST

"swimming"?

lots of times when i look at a color i can tell what it is but only after staring at it for several seconds. for example i have a hard time telling florescent yellow and florescent green apart but if i hold one object of each color together and stare at them eventually they sort of change and then i can correctly tell them apart.

another time we were painting a house starting in the early morning. i was painting with this color at first i thought it was white but then the sun got higher and i thought it was gray. the sun rose some more and finally i realized it was pink. thats not really the color swimming, but i wonder if theyre related.

actually needing strong light to correctly tell a color happens to me alot. like this other time we were painting with some weird purply black color. at first i thought it was green, then brown, until finally i realized it was purply black.

[ Parent ]

I have... (none / 0) (#272)
by BJH on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 12:17:30 AM EST

...similar problems - a strong lightsource needed to tell colours apart, colours "changing" after I concentrate on them, etc.

I guess it's just your brain trying to make do with the information it has.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

only in america (2.27 / 11) (#52)
by tkatchevzz on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:19:55 PM EST

'squirrel' is not a game animal, dude.

tell me, do you 'hunt' for field mice with a shotgun, too?


let me introduce you to the great canadian (none / 0) (#58)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:50:19 PM EST

farley mowat

who, as a field biologist, wondered how wolves survived in the off season on the tundra, saw them nipping at field mice, and wondered at the sustainability of eating nothing but mice

so he did it, he tried an experiment:

he lived on eating nothing but mice fopr months, just to prove the possibility

ug

and, as a large animal, as lard ass canadians, like their lard ass american brethren, are wont to be, he proved megafauna can survive on eating small rodents

see the movie all about it, never cry wolf

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

only in america (1.00 / 3) (#59)
by tkatchevzz on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:09:18 PM EST

like i said

[ Parent ]
america=canada? (none / 0) (#60)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:11:42 PM EST

any canadian nationalists here want to chime in on the equating?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
ya pretty much (none / 0) (#130)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:58:25 AM EST

could've fooled the rest of us

[ Parent ]
i actually agree with you (none / 0) (#170)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:17:02 AM EST

but that's the arrogant american in me talking

to me canada is just unincorporated usa territory

but i'd be careful if i were you repeating your sentiment in toronto or vancouver


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

in addition (none / 1) (#131)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:59:32 AM EST

being 'american' is not political, it's a cultural thing about being really dense and dumb.

[ Parent ]
where are you from? (none / 0) (#172)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:18:43 AM EST

i want to know about this magical culture where no one is stupid

go get drunk and fight your fellow soccer hooligans, you retarded nationalist moron

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

american dumbness strikes again (none / 1) (#197)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:21:00 PM EST

"culture of being stupid" != "where everyone is stupid"

example -- rap music, american suburbs, etc. ad nauseam.


[ Parent ]

like i said (none / 0) (#200)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:24:19 PM EST

where are you from?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
he's right (none / 0) (#203)
by Battle Troll on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:25:52 PM EST

In Eastern Europe, generally, people who know themselves to be stupid are ashamed of it. There isn't yet much of a 'chav' culture, except maybe among the Gypsies.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
wow (none / 0) (#206)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:49:47 PM EST

...ethnocentric arguments about stupidity

...asserting that some stupid know better when to shut up

my head asplode


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

naw (none / 0) (#207)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:53:01 PM EST

ethnocentric arguments about culture.

not pc, but hey, what do you want from me.

or are you going to argue that american culture prizes stupidity and/or being limited and closed minded?


[ Parent ]

what? no (none / 1) (#209)
by Battle Troll on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 05:04:28 PM EST

It's not about being stupid; that can happen to anyone. It's about valuing stupidity and encouraging people to act stupid.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
you surprise me for a NYer (none / 1) (#99)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:29:22 PM EST

You know quite a bit about the outdoors and the world outside the metro for such an urbanite. :) Impressive.

Back in the "old days" when there were still quite a few people living in the back woods and living off of the things they would hunt or trap, it was not uncommon from people to suffer from something that's referred to "rabbit starvation". This applied to squerrels as well. Small game animals are very lean, and while they had a lot of protein, the people wouldn't get enough fat to sustain health. It causes slow thinking, poor skin and teeth health, and several other symptoms similar to those of diabeties. So, while living off field mice is possible, you're not going to be living terribly well. Having a large store of fat (as I'm sure the researcher did, even compared to "primative" North Americans) would likely help.
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.
[ Parent ]

i grew up on a rural farm (3.00 / 2) (#122)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:14:13 PM EST

1850s farm house, barn, goats, chickens, ponies, etc.

same house my mom grew up in, nearest neighbor a mile a way through a swamp, granddad taught me to shoot in said swamp

i went to college, then moved to new york city

i'm now a pro-gun control urbanite through and through

i will die in a major urban center, i will never live rural again, it's just too... dead

i really don't mind rural life all that much though, i don't hate it

it's actually the soccer mom strip mall suv suburbs that makes my skin crawl

cultural wasteland


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Farley Mowal is awesome (none / 1) (#150)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:18:21 AM EST

His The Boat Who Would Not Float is a maritime classic. I should really dig up some of his other stuff.

About mice -- if my cats' annual catch is any indication, the total mouse biomass per acre probably weighs as much as my house.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

that's just about true (none / 0) (#173)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:20:35 AM EST

if you want to get really disgusting, if the entire planet disappeared except for its worms, you could still pretty much see the entire outline of every square foot of the planet


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Used to0 read his books when I was a kid. (none / 0) (#220)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:50:42 PM EST

The stuff based on his hunting trips with his father were great.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
Never Cry Wolf is FICTION. (none / 0) (#216)
by sudog on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:40:03 PM EST

He did NOT do the things mentioned in that movie, he did *NOT* spend entire seasons up there, he didn't fall through the ice, and he didn't spend vast amounts of time observing wolves.

In other words, you've bought his story-telling whoppers hook, line, and sinker.


[ Parent ]

the observations are scientifically sound (none / 0) (#244)
by circletimessquare on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 09:26:21 PM EST

i could care less about the embellishments

it's a STORY, dork, not a scientific paper

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You're the dork. (none / 0) (#271)
by sudog on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 09:05:49 PM EST

You're the one who claimed the guy did what he wrote about. I like the story too, and the movie, but the observations are NOT scientifically sound, and they're in many cases completely fictional.

I'm just saying you're wrong about Mowat "living off mice" for a season. Let's leave it at that, okay?


[ Parent ]

What would have been really good (none / 0) (#261)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:25:12 PM EST

would be if he'd noticed that some species of fox live entirely on moths and other insects....

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
You're either trolling or ignorant (none / 0) (#75)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 06:29:47 PM EST

I'm going to humor you and guess #2.

You've probably never picked up or held a squirrel.  Fully extended, a squirrel can be as big as your forearm, which is to say from your wrist to your elbow for an adult grey squirrel (not including tail).  But, next time you're in a pet store, look at the rats.  The rats in the pet stores won't be adults, so add a bit to the size, and you'll have a decent idea of how big the animal really is.

Now consider the bullet.  I posted that the bullet is the size of a small pea, but I could have said a ladybug or a BB.  To convert caliber to mm, you need to know that caliber is 1/100th of an inch, so 22 caliber is .22 inches, or 5.58mm across.  That's roughly half the size of your fingertip.

When the round strikes the animal, three things are going to happen.  The round can fragment, the round can fail to expand, and the round can expand.  The easiest to explain is that the round fails to expand, and this usually means it passes out the other side of the animal.  There will be idential, 5.58mm holes on each side of the animal.  When the round fragments, this means there will be a 5.58mm hole on the entrance side, and there probably isn't an exit side.  The round will fragment when it hits dense bones such as the spine or pelvis.  This usually results in you chewing on small splinters of lead and doesn't make for very good eating.  The best case (and what happens most of the time) is that the bullet enters the animal, making a 5.58mm hole on one side, expands as it passes through, and makes a roughly 10mm hole on the other side (the size of your fingertip).

So basically, put your fingertip on your forearm, and that's how much damage you're doing to the animal.  Considering that you're not eating the head or ribs where the vital organs are, and you probably arn't going to notice...

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Caliber? (3.00 / 2) (#103)
by Xptic on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:38:41 PM EST

I think you might be off a bit.  I've never measured a .22 rifle bullet.  However, I do know that a .223 (m-16) is 5.56mm.  I would think that a .22 caliber would be about 5.5mm on the nose.

However, it could be a disparity between the tolerances in the NATO ball round and the commercial 22 Long Rifle round.

As for the article, I loved it.  We used to hunt lots as young teens.  Mostly bird and rabbit; but squirrel were in there too.  In fact, I place a lot of credit for qualifying as a marksman to my time spent hunting as a kid.

I've gone back and done some other stuff since then.  Now that I have more money, I have a nice 22 rifle with awesome optics.  I practice as much as possible; usually 50 rounds per week or so.  However, nothing is as fun as taking out the old bolt-action 22 and lining up a rabbit in the iron sights.  The feeling of accomplishment is something that most Americans will never get to experience.

[ Parent ]

RE: specific dimensions (none / 0) (#111)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:54:10 PM EST

I'm not entirely sure about the millimeters, that was done on a quick hack of mscalc and should not represent canon dimensions.  (LOL "CANNON").

There's another discussion attached to this article about the specific caliber or mm of specific rounds.  The caution is not to use caliber alone as a judgement of the effectiveness or weight or charge of a particular round.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Something to consider... (none / 1) (#196)
by Sairon on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:19:47 PM EST

often times these measurements are more of a 'marketing name' than a real measurement. .22 Long Rifle is 5.68 mm by the SAAMI specification. 5.56mm NATO is actually 5.7mm. They are close on this one dimension, but not quite exactly. It's not really a thing of specification. The 5.56mm measurement on the rifle is in refference to the bore of the rifle itself. The rounds actual dimensions SHOULD be larger than the bore, as the round needs to compress and seal around the rifling.

Beyond that, I'm sure you know that there are alot of other differences between these two balls, such as length and weight. One thing that shooters need to keep in mind is that when a round/rifle combination is created it is created with specific amounts of twist to the barrel, a range of projectile weights and chamber pressures in mind. Even when the rounds seem nominally the same, or have the same bore diameters, they are not always safe or accurate to interchange.

And some people out there thought that shooting guns wasn't a geek hobby.

[ Parent ]

wtf? (none / 0) (#137)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:13:30 AM EST

omg lol

have you ever actually seen a living squirrel?

(or maybe you live next to a nuclear power plant?)


[ Parent ]

you're confusing 'squirrel' with 'chipmunk' (nt) (none / 0) (#141)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:29:58 AM EST


And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

no - (none / 0) (#199)
by tkatchevzz on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:23:10 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I hope you realize... (2.50 / 2) (#80)
by hyperbolic pants explosion on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:11:15 PM EST

that squirrels are bubonic plague disease vectors.

you're thinking prairie dogs nt (none / 0) (#83)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:14:07 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
no sir yuo are incorrect (3.00 / 2) (#87)
by hyperbolic pants explosion on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:32:26 PM EST

I was referring to rodentia in general.

I prefer to be overly-cautious when it comes to the fucking bubonic plauge.  

[ Parent ]

it's easily treatable nowadays (3.00 / 2) (#91)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:41:19 PM EST

you should be worried about the fucking birds and their funky spanish flu version 2.0 they are cooking up as we speak


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
oh believe me I am (3.00 / 7) (#93)
by hyperbolic pants explosion on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:47:10 PM EST

you won't see me commenting on the joys of cooking canadien geese or anything

[ Parent ]
i'm more worried about homo sapiens (3.00 / 3) (#95)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:50:21 PM EST

once it makes the ease of transmission jump, our lovely virus is far more likely to be introduced into your pulmonary system to gleefully turn it into liquid via your fellow naked monkey, rather than your donald duck


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
So stop eating them. n (none / 0) (#260)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:23:26 PM EST



---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
what about chickens? (n/t) (none / 1) (#113)
by Delirium on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:59:49 PM EST



[ Parent ]
shhhh! (none / 1) (#90)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 07:36:41 PM EST

Shhh! Don't let the secret out! Then there'll be less squirrels for us!
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.

btw, thanks... (2.50 / 2) (#98)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:22:00 PM EST

this is one of the first things I've enjoyed reading on k5 for a couple months now.

I grew up trapping squerrels (say, from around 7 until 13), never went squerrel hunting. We'd just use a simple 3-stick 4-brace deadfall in conjunction with a flat-bottomed rock on one of the many stone walls in the area (NY state).

Another thing about squerrels: they have favorite paths of transit. If you live in the NE US, or one of the other localities which has old stone fences, you could probably camp out by a wooded intersection and get a couple squerrels an hour.

Another thing about squerrels: they love bird eggs. If you're a bird watcher, thinning the squerrel population will likely increase the bird population significantly within a year. In an "urban" environment, headshots with a 1,000fps .17 cal air rifle from a window is a wonderful method for both providing meat for the pot and alieviating the over-population of squerrels and their potential disease vector.
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.

Old School Traps (none / 0) (#106)
by t1ber on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:41:14 PM EST

Have you actually hunted squirrels in the city or suburbs?  What did the neighbors think?

And that is some old school trapping.  I vaguely remember learning about it in the scouts although having access to guns kept me from paying too much attention to it.  How did you dispatch your trapped squirrels?

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

no, but... (3.00 / 2) (#116)
by CAIMLAS on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:08:32 PM EST

I have not (ok, except for in my youth), but I've heard of people doing it with frequency. The neighbors never found out (as it would be done from a partially opened window, in the early morning). Rabbits, too. Being an air rifle, it's not going to be audable over a vehicle traveling down the street, and nobody's going to see it... just do it in a back yard or what have you. (Most of the stories I've heard have been from Sioux Falls, SD, population ~200k.

Oh, by the way, we've got really large red squerrels out here in SD. They're bigger than the greys I remember from my youth in VA, PA, and NY. ANd they get really, really fat in town (all those bird feeders, I imagine, in conjunction with warm attics to live in).

I think you misunderstood the way that deadfall trapping works, particularly involving a large stone. :) The falling of the stone itself usually kills them, either by cracking their spine/skull or suffocating them. Picking a good flat contact between stones was important so they'd die quickly and not escape. Bait would be something like a piece of apple or some hard corn on a large fish hook, tied to the end of the 'trigger' stick.

here is an image of roughly how a deadfall would work. It's a basic tension lever trap. My sticks never looked quite like those, as the vertical stick and the stick parallel to the ground would have a 'groove' in stead of a notch, so it would be easier to set and need less tension to spring. The square notch can lead to locking, so on the verticle stick make the groove shaped somewhat like an "L", with the cross stick tensioning against the bottom of the L. You can do the same with the cross stick, but there's not much of a need.

People have used deadfalls to trap everything from small rodents to bears. They're very effective. You can, of course, use a weighted box trap with the same trigger mechanism, but I don't see the point: you're just going to end up with a caged and potentially angery animal when you open the box, and it might get away or attack you while you're peaking underneath. :P

With squerrel trapping, you'd have to come by an hour after setting the trap (if in he morning) it or it would set up in a position difficult to skin.
--

Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.
[ Parent ]

Another thing about squirrels (none / 0) (#160)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:56:40 AM EST

They are monumentally stupid. As an experiment some time, try sitting near a tree where some squirrels are foraging, with a pile of rocks. Throw a rock at one of the squirrels until you hit it. You don't need to throw it very hard -- you're not trying to hurt the thing, just to hit it. When you do hit it, it will probably jump about a foot straight into the air, and then come down and freeze. Then wait. After a minute or so, it will visibly forget why it was frozen and resume foraging like nothing ever happened.

Squirrels, as far as I can tell, are capable of maintaining a thought for about 30 seconds.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Kinda like cts, I guess. [nt] (3.00 / 2) (#218)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:43:30 PM EST


--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
BTW... (none / 0) (#222)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:06:41 PM EST

...PLAYJARIZM ON TEH INTARWEB!!!1!
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
lol (none / 0) (#231)
by rusty on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 01:19:48 PM EST

I had the strangest feeling while I wrote that that I had posted something like that before. I guess I might as well stop now. I've obviously said everything I have to say.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Also highly recommended: (none / 1) (#118)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:10:39 PM EST

Shooting prairie dogs at long range with an AR-15 or AK-47. It might be one of the few sporting uses for these particular guns...

+1 FP, shotgun/rifle/4WD/country boy can survive.


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
what is your purpose for shooting them? nt (none / 1) (#121)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:08:08 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Vermin extermination in crop fields, usually $ (none / 0) (#140)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:28:35 AM EST




"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
you're an ignorant prick (3.00 / 2) (#165)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:10:55 AM EST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dogs

They used to inhabit larger areas of the Great Plains, forming towns of several millions individuals. Prairie dogs are an important part of the prairie ecosystem, black footed ferrets and burrowing owls depending on them. A misinterpreted belief that prairie dogs destroy crops or especially prairie grass has led in the past to extensive killings, which has dramatically reduced their numbers today and led them to near extinction. While some States started a relocation and protection scheme, in some parts of the US the killings, often seen just a Sunday sport, still continue. Utah and Gunnison prairie dogs are close to extinction, the largest community left is made up of black tailed prairie dogs.

prairie dogs are threatened, if not endangered

cockroaches and rats aren't

if priarie dogs were as plentiful as rats and cockroaches, you would have a point

as it is, you don't

so stop being so ignorant

prairie dogs don't threaten crops, this is ignorance

at best you protecting your cattle from breaking their leg

still not reason enough to threaten the existence of a species

if you threaten the existence of a species, perhaps it is you who should be removed

i'm not joking

we need to preserve species

we don't necessarily need you

species are not disposable, you are disposable

ignorant inbred backwoods moron


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

YHBT (NT) (none / 0) (#166)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:12:06 AM EST




"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
perhaps not (3.00 / 2) (#169)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:14:45 AM EST

your words ring true: their are ignorant inbred hicks who still consider shooting prairie dogs for fun, even though they are not crop pests, and they are endangered

while you may be a troll, the words you say reflect a real problem

so thanks for bring this subject up so the words that needed to be said got said, troll


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

They Are Pests (none / 1) (#149)
by Xptic on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:16:47 AM EST

Kinda like NYers don't need a reason to kill rats and cock-a-roaches, Cowboys and farmers don't need a reason to kill prariedogs and moles.

[ Parent ]
you're ignorant (3.00 / 4) (#164)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:09:01 AM EST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dogs

They used to inhabit larger areas of the Great Plains, forming towns of several millions individuals. Prairie dogs are an important part of the prairie ecosystem, black footed ferrets and burrowing owls depending on them. A misinterpreted belief that prairie dogs destroy crops or especially prairie grass has led in the past to extensive killings, which has dramatically reduced their numbers today and led them to near extinction. While some States started a relocation and protection scheme, in some parts of the US the killings, often seen just a Sunday sport, still continue. Utah and Gunnison prairie dogs are close to extinction, the largest community left is made up of black tailed prairie dogs.

prairie dogs are threatened, if not endangered

cockroaches and rats aren't

if priarie dogs were as plentiful as rats and cockroaches, you would have a point

as it is, you don't

so stop being so ignorant

prairie dogs don't threaten crops, this is ignorance

at best you protecting your cattle from breaking their leg

still not reason enough to threaten the existence of a species

if you threaten the existence of a species, perhaps it is you who should be removed

i'm not joking

we need to preserve species

we don't necessarily need you

species are not disposable, you are disposable

ignorant inbred backwoods moron


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Stop! (none / 0) (#213)
by Xptic on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:42:50 PM EST

Stop your useless hippy blabering.

Species go extinct all the time.  It's a natural part of living on planet earth.

In time, we too will pass into extinction.

As will cock-a-roaches and rats.

Prarie dogs *are* pests.  You quote WP like it's some bastion of truth in an otherwise untruthful world.  There are many shades of truth.  Farmers and ranchers know more about what threatens them than some overweight geek typing on his cheetos-dust-encrusted keyboard.

Just because you did 5 minutes of research on the good old WP, does not make it truth.

Ranchers make money off of cattle.  Their margins are pretty thin already.  Anything that could take down an otherwise healthy animal should be stopped.

Yes, that includes cyotes and wolves.  Kill them all.  Put 20 or so in a zoo and let people look at how pretty they are.  Every few weeks, bring through a tour of school children and send a cow into the pin.  Let the children see *why* these animals should not be allowed in the wild.

Pests are pests.  Just because they are endangered does not mean it's still not a pest, it just means that it was so important to kill them, that men dedicated a lot of time and did the job right.

[ Parent ]

If pests should be exterminated... (3.00 / 2) (#217)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:41:57 PM EST

...I vote for your immediate termination.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
take some responsibility (none / 1) (#226)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:27:37 PM EST

we're stewards of the land

preservation of species is our responsibility

and in the interest of the prairie dog, i think you should be killed


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Pussy (3.00 / 2) (#163)
by PhillipW on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:05:40 AM EST

What kind of candy ass bitch needs an automatic rifle to kill something the size of a squirrel?

-Phil
[ Parent ]
prairie dogs are endangered too (3.00 / 3) (#167)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:12:52 AM EST

and they do not threaten crops

i propose a hunting season on ignorant backwoods inbred hicks

they shoot back, but that only means more sport for us

fucking assholes


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

The US has this already (none / 0) (#192)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:16:25 PM EST

It's a year-round hunting season, and the venue is called a ghetto, if I remember correctly...


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
oh lolz (none / 1) (#198)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:21:20 PM EST

people who have never been to the inner city, basing their stereotypes on 1985 era

truly the height of intellect you are

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Re: Pussy (none / 0) (#250)
by metallic on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:47:20 PM EST

Well, these weapons aren't automatic. At least not the AR-15, and if you have enough money to legally own a fully automatic AK-47 in the United States then you probably spend your time doing things other than shooting squirrel.

Personally, I do carry a AR-15 when I'm at the deer camp. It's good against both the humans and the coyotes that may disturb me in my sleep.  

[ Parent ]

Gamey. (2.50 / 2) (#120)
by Back Spaced on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:01:11 PM EST

I have to disagree with the "should not have a gamey taste" part. The squirrels I've had were all pretty gamey.

Bluto: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
Otter: Better listen to him, Flounder. He's pre-med.

-1, promotes terrorism (1.42 / 7) (#124)
by United Fools on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:27:45 PM EST


We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
Topical link (3.00 / 10) (#125)
by The Diary Section on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:34:19 PM EST

You'll be fascinated (I'm sure) to learn that by coincidence the House of Lords today spent its painfully expensive time discussing just how to cook squirrel ending in an invitation to a party at a restraunt owned by Lord Inglewood to sample the delicacy.

Linky here

But Lord Inglewood had other ideas about the grey. "Would they be good to eat?" he demanded. He thought so. Indeed the L.L. Bean Game and Fish Cookbook said as much: "Squirrel meat is the most delicious of all small games. Young squirrel is better than rabbit or chicken."

He announced that, in the national interest, he was prepared to "give it a go". But then Lord Inglewood had an even better idea. Why stop at a random menu item? Why not an entire dinner party? "What I would like to do is to invite each and every one of the front bench Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Department team to the hotel in the Lake District where I am a director, and also has one AA rosette for fine food, to dine on grey squirrels to launch an `Eat a Grey and Save a Red' campaign!"

I'm afraid that eagle-eyed Kurons will note this is yet another incidence in the sweeping trend towards rampant anti-Americanism...
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.

You have a funnier legislature... (none / 0) (#234)
by claes on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:50:01 PM EST

than we do. I'm jealous.

-- claes

[ Parent ]

Strange coincidence, this. (2.40 / 5) (#132)
by Kasreyn on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 03:06:10 AM EST

I just watched "Roger & Me" for the first time last night. Michael Moore's first (iirc) documentary, about Flint, MI being impoverished by the closing of its GM plants. In it, there's a rather disturbing scene with a woman who's selling "rabbits or bunnies" as "pets or meat (dressed)".

Woman in question is this creepy-looking person who holds a huge beautiful rabbit and pets it lovingly while talking to Moore for about five minutes, then proceeds to beat its brains in with a length of pipe, strings it up, skins, guts, and dresses it while still talking to him. Never once does she even bat an eye. O.o


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
Jaywalking (3.00 / 2) (#151)
by Xptic on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:20:40 AM EST

It's the Jaywalking principle.  If you've never seen it, Jay Lenno will ask people simple questions.  Then the audence laughs as people stumble through figuring out if Earth is the third or fourth planet from the Sun.

In any event, I'm sure Mike interviewed several dozen farmers till he got a "winner".  You don't make money by showing normal people.  You make money by showing the extremists.

[ Parent ]

I thought that squirrel scene was spooky too. (none / 0) (#168)
by superdiva on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:13:30 AM EST

The woman was petting the squirrel then she was like..."Now I'm gonna kill you so we can eat you."

But, things were really that tough.  And then you find out at the end of the film that the City of Flint shut her business down.  I wonder what she's doing now.
_____________________________________________

Vote in Front Page poll: Best Scoop Writer for 2005
[ Parent ]

Guns are for girls. (3.00 / 2) (#133)
by stuaart on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 04:12:45 AM EST

What you really want to prove your manliness is a big, fat, machete*.

---
* Woman not included.

Linkwhore: [Hidden stories.] Baldrtainment: Corporate concubines and Baldrson: An Introspective


But there's a woman holding it! (3.00 / 2) (#139)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:25:45 AM EST

Then again, this could easilly be my penis in some Se7en-esque kind of psychosexual way.

I am aroused.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

or even better (none / 0) (#259)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:19:43 PM EST

a slasher.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Sorry... (2.66 / 3) (#135)
by mirleid on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:23:15 AM EST

Your article is well written, clear, and it apparently appeals to a certain K5 demographic. Unfortunatelly, I am not part of that group, and I can't bring myself to vote positively on an article about shooting animals for no discernible relevant purpose.

On the other hand, and given the fact that the form is pretty good (if not the content, at least as far as I am concerned),
I can't -1t either. Ergo, abstain it is...

Chickens don't give milk
heh (none / 1) (#138)
by karb on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:12:22 AM EST

shooting animals for no discernible relevant purpose

Wait. Is 'eating' indiscernible, or is it irrelevant?
--
Who is the geek who would risk his neck for his brother geek?
[ Parent ]

Discernible, but irrelevant.[] (none / 1) (#153)
by mirleid on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:42:23 AM EST



Chickens don't give milk
[ Parent ]
My goodness! (3.00 / 3) (#156)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:51:15 AM EST

Meat for eating comes wrapped in plastic from a faraway factory farm. Shooting a healthy free-range tree rat for food is Disturbing and Wrong.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Yeah! (none / 1) (#180)
by bakuretsu on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:30:31 PM EST

Besides, who knows what sorts of chemicals are going to be in those animals you've shot?! At least I know that my shrink-wrapped, styrofoam-bedded vittles are clean from impurities...

-- Airborne
    aka Bakuretsu
    The Bailiwick -- DESIGNHUB 2004
[ Parent ]
lol what? (none / 1) (#181)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:35:18 PM EST

Ever read anything about factory farming? :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Ugh. n (none / 0) (#258)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:09:58 PM EST



---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Huh (2.50 / 2) (#143)
by eavier on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:00:28 AM EST

I never knew that you USians hunted squirrel let alone ate them.

In NZ, we don't have squirrels and I often treat them like a pet when I see them in London's Hyde Park, feeding the little fuckers chicken flavoured crisps which I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do. They like them though.

The only NZ comparable `target' we have in size is the rabbit or a hare although those don't live in trees so a different story altogether.

We do have goats that cause a fuck load of damage to our native fauna so I occasionally go on hunting trips with my brothers when I'm home. I only have a Mini 14 which can be a bit inaccurate for a long shot so a good bolt action is on the shopping list.

Good article +1FP from me.


Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

so you hunt shotgun or... (none / 0) (#202)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:52:40 PM EST

How do you hunt goats?

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

With a gun, DUH. [nt] (none / 0) (#215)
by BJH on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:39:07 PM EST


--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
I think he meant tactics $ (none / 0) (#233)
by emmons on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:01:28 PM EST



---
In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams

[ Parent ]
Overkill (none / 0) (#247)
by eavier on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 04:13:01 AM EST

but I usually also carry a side by side slung.

We hunt in high country - e.g. sheep stations / beefstock pasture. The terrain is a good mix of really dense sub tropical bush and sloping farm land.

Basically we spend 70% of our time in the bush, occasionally coming discreetly out to the perimeter of open farmland. Goats can usually be seen at a similar farmland perimeter off somewhat in the distance. They're exteremely perceptive (as are all wild animals) so once they see you it's very difficult to get within range (we like to engage at no more than 20 - 30 metres if we can get close enough!).

They are made up of groups between 10 to 40 animals with an alpha male. The rest are made up of females, young males and kids.

We hunt with usually 4 guys, no more. Guns used include my 14, a .44 lever action(awesome stopping power but crap range), a .270 bolt action for range and two shotguns including my own side by side and semi auto for bush encounters.

We usually cover about 10 - 15 miles and can be out for 6 - 8 hours at a time.

We also hunt kuni kuni (our native boar) but that's a whole other story.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

Dad? (none / 1) (#257)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:09:03 PM EST

just kidding.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Possums (none / 1) (#256)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:08:26 PM EST

are only a bit bigger.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Oddly enough (none / 1) (#145)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:02:38 AM EST

There are no squirrels at all on my island. Most people take some years to notice this, or are surprised to have it pointed out, but I have never yet seen a squirrel here or found anyone who claims to have seen one.

We have skunks, raccoons, lots of deer, a few chipmunks (I have seen one personally), tons of mice, muskrats, moles, and presumably a range of other normal woodland type creatures. But not a single squirrel.

I do not have any plausible explanation for this, except to conclude perhaps that squirrels must be really terrible swimmers.

____
Not the real rusty

a perfect opportunity (none / 0) (#159)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:56:13 AM EST

for you to engage in a little ecological destruction via the importation nonnative species

go for it dude!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Ha (none / 1) (#171)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:17:57 AM EST

You know what actually caused me to first notice the lack of squirrels? We used to live in a house with a big old oak tree outside. And in the fall, this thing would drop acorns like it was hailing. They'd fall on the roof of a car we had parked out there with a great big "CLONNNNG" noise. It was dangerous to sit underneath the thing. And all around it on the ground were these drifts of enormous acorns, just lying there.

So one day I started thinking about this. "Why are those acorns so huge?" I wondered. "And why are there so many of them?" Eventually I thought about squirrels, and started looking for them. And then I realized that there were none.

I can't really prove that the astounding size of these acorns and the lack of squirrels are related, although I suspect they are. But I'm damn sure that the number of dropping acorns is related to the lack of squirrels, since none of them ever get eaten before they fall off the tree.

It's interesting to live on an island, because it makes these kinds of system-ecology relationships really obvious.

As for nonnative species, we all curse the US government every day when we look at our woods being destroyed by bittersweet. They built a bunch of military bunkers here in the secoond world war, to protect Portland harbor, and on top of them they planted bittersweet, which is a fast-growing nonnative vine, to quickly make them invisible from the air. And of course there's nothing here that eats bittersweet, and it just loves the climate, so now it's everywhere. It climbs up trees and chokes them. It spreads through roots underground. In the summer, every time I mow my lawn there are bittersweet shoots poking up right in the middle of it, 75 feet away from anything. And the only thing that kills the stuff is round-up applied to the main root. It will be here forever, and it will eventually deforest this island, and every other island in the bay (where it has also been planted or spread). The islands without permanent human populations are suffering from it much worse. They all have big patches of woods where all the trees have been throttled, and these patches spread outward like a disease.

We've got bamboo too, although it's not as much of a problem, because it spreads a lot slower and doesn't directly kill other plants. But I tell you, the invasive species problem is not a far-off theoretical thing here.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

acorns huh? (3.00 / 3) (#176)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:50:22 AM EST

i was just joking about the ecosystem fucking around with, that's really very serious, but perhaps, now that you told me about your obscene over-abundance of acorns, i can help you out with some native american tech:

acorn flour

acorn muffins

the trick is in leaching out all of the tannic acid, which not only tastes really bitter and astringent, but will make you really sick if you eat enough

otherwise, the flour is actually sweet, is high in protein, and high in beneficial nut oils and many vitamins, and is very good for you ;-)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You're a goddamn (3.00 / 2) (#178)
by eavier on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:25:12 PM EST

fountain of knowledge.

Lacking squirrels, I also need to do something with the mountains of acorns under my oaks.

Acorn Muffins. That'll leave old dears at the bake off gob smacked.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

its a lot of hard work (none / 1) (#182)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:40:33 PM EST

maybe you can invent a new, easier processing method, and become a latter day acorn flour baron ;-P

the process is relatively simple though, so some common kitchen equipment should render the process not that tedious

some experimentation, some tweaks, and voila: muffins are served

tell me how they turn out ;-)

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I will (none / 1) (#183)
by eavier on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:44:58 PM EST

I'll let the K5 world know in a diary entry next autumn slash fall.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]
beware the tannic acid! leach it thoroughly! (none / 1) (#185)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:55:42 PM EST

you really don't want to mess that step up (easy to test though with a dab on the tongue, and its really hard to miss the taste of tannic acid in the final product)

unless you want to take a special trip through your digestive track, touching upon the wonderful highlights of crippling nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Crippling nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea (none / 1) (#187)
by eavier on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:00:02 PM EST

Sounds like me at a Sandra Bullock movie

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]
LOL ;-) gl with da muffins ;-) (none / 1) (#188)
by circletimessquare on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:04:12 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
acorns? Squirrels? (none / 1) (#189)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:06:53 PM EST

Why not just get it done with and import the squirrels?  ;)

Squirrel populations will keep the acorns down.

If the squirrel population gets too large, fry them up in some acron flour.

Take a multivitamin suppliment to prevent rabbit-starvation and you'll have so much more free time to devote to K5 and scoop and important stuff, like monocule polishing.  Lose that day job and live off the land, you dirty hippy you.  ;)

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

You PETA hater!... (none / 1) (#152)
by terryfunk on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:23:52 AM EST

or is it Pita hater, you left pita bread outta your recipie. +1 FP... excellent.

I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown
The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

Squirrel is obviously *not* Kosher, btw (2.50 / 2) (#158)
by nidarus on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:53:24 AM EST



hey, it's not a split-hoof animal (none / 1) (#190)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:08:02 PM EST

And the Hebrew word for "squirrel" is "manna".

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Mammals have to be split-hooved to be Kosher (none / 1) (#210)
by nidarus on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 06:09:18 PM EST

So it's "But", not "And".

Btw, isn't it "cloven"-hooved?

[ Parent ]

Actually it's niether 'But' nor 'And', (none / 0) (#229)
by New Me on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:57:13 AM EST

since the Hebrew word for "squirrel" is "sna'i".

--
"He hallucinated, freaked out, his aneurysm popped, and he died. Happened to me once." --Lode Runner
[ Parent ]

I know that, dude (none / 0) (#230)
by nidarus on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:44:21 AM EST

But you have to admit that "manna" is funny (even though it's really "mann").

[ Parent ]
+1, Shooting Stuff. (1.00 / 3) (#177)
by Egil Skallagrimson on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:54:54 AM EST

I didn't even read it. But, did I really need to?

Shooting stuff!!!

It's a Penis with Metal Seed!!!!

----------------

Enterobacteria phage T2 is a virulent bacteriophage of the T4-like viruses genus, in the family Myoviridae. It infects E. coli and is the best known of the T-even phages. Its virion contains linear double-stranded DNA, terminally redundant and circularly permuted.

Safety tip... (none / 1) (#186)
by t1ber on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:58:34 PM EST

Do not "go down" on the gun.

Bullets strike with only twice the average force of male ejaculation but this is enough to break most white women's necks.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease anyone? (none / 1) (#193)
by SaintPort on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:18:42 PM EST

Kosher has reasons.

linkies (I'm sure there are better, but these'll do):

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/sqbrain.html.  

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9500E0D91231F93AA1 575BC0A961958260.  

<Kosher><

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

As in mad (and perfectly Kosher) cow disease? (none / 0) (#211)
by nidarus on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 06:10:55 PM EST



[ Parent ]
<yes>< (none / 0) (#212)
by SaintPort on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 06:38:00 PM EST



--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]
actually yes (3.00 / 2) (#239)
by eramm on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:22:49 PM EST

orthodox kosher means that the cow is slaughtered by a very sharp knife via the two main veins in the neck.

mad cow becomes a problem when you kill the cow by shooting it in the head (the accepted practice)

the disease lives in the head of the cow and gets injected to the meat via the killing process as the blood does not drain quickly.

as one mad cow expert put it
"the jews got it right"

[ Parent ]

Shooting it in the head? That's hardcore (none / 0) (#263)
by nidarus on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 02:14:25 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Kosher (none / 0) (#245)
by dogeye on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:22:30 PM EST

Kosher rules were written by priests around 2500 years ago. The reasons they used are not particularly applicable to todays society.

[ Parent ]
Using a rat trap for squirrel hunting ... (none / 1) (#224)
by hulkster on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:37:50 PM EST

While perhaps not as sporting as shooting 'em, here's evidence that a victor rat trap can be used to hunt squirrels

White meat? (2.50 / 2) (#225)
by 3vi1 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:06:30 PM EST

You and your dad must be shooting park squirrels in a cage?  Every squirrel I ever shot in the wild (down south) was dark meat.

living off the land (3.00 / 2) (#237)
by Ragica on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:36:00 PM EST

In the intro to the article the author makes reference to the colapse of civilization and fending for oneself and living off the land. Regardless of how jokingly this was meant (it could go either way, you never know), there was at least one comment that followed that also made the point of putting hunting in the context of "survival".

This perspective, for the majority of human-inhabitable geography is not true. A man (or woman) could sustain himself quite well, and thrive without having to shoot anything. I know it is hard, because of the ingrained nature of meat consumption (and the comradery with one's father, and all), but it is really possible to think differently.

I keep wondering where these brave hunter types are going to be getting their ammo after "the collapse of civilisation".

Personally, my advice to these people, would be to study up on indigenous plant-based nutrition, and, when the time comes, save the precious ammunition for other humans...

Reloading. (none / 1) (#246)
by Sairon on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:36:13 AM EST

Then archery. Always have a backup to the backup.

[ Parent ]
and don't forget (none / 0) (#274)
by iggymanz on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 05:03:55 PM EST

trapping, the truly 100% recyclable animal killing technology

[ Parent ]
not out of ammo (none / 1) (#273)
by iggymanz on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 04:35:39 PM EST

living off the land without killing an animal will usually result (in most places) in a low protein diet and vitamin b-12 deficiency. As for running out of ammo, you must not know how cheap it is: 10,000 rounds of .22 LR for less than $180 will give you enough ammo for years. And I can reload a large centerfire caliber for less than 25 cents.

[ Parent ]
FP and over 200 comments? (2.20 / 5) (#238)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 12:49:31 PM EST

christ, the rednecks are taking over this site.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
Unless something radical and imaginative ... (none / 0) (#240)
by Ignore Amos on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 03:39:06 PM EST

... is done, Squirrel Nutkin and his friends are going to be toast.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

IFI (none / 0) (#241)
by Ignore Amos on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 03:55:06 PM EST

Link already posted below, by The Diary Section.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

Just a little over the top (none / 1) (#243)
by itsbruce on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 06:57:29 PM EST

When the collapse of civilization comes, the only people left are going to be those willing to fend for themselves and live off the land.

I have nothing against you killing to eat, but that's just a little bit self-congratulatory, if not masturbatory.

  1. Living off the land involves more than hunting
  2. Even the simplest communities contain people who have no role in hunting and killing.

It doesn't really make any difference if, when you have a squirrel in your sights, you get all hot about some imagined spiritual connection with your "less civilised" ancestors, but it's a little sad.


--It is impolite to tell a man who is carrying you on his shoulders that his head smells.

IAWTP (none / 0) (#255)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:04:00 PM EST

besides which, killing animals with a firearm is hardly a demonstration of elite survival skill.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
that's tongue in cheek (none / 0) (#268)
by t1ber on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 01:52:15 PM EST

the original draft read "when hell fills and the dead walk the earth, only the gun owners will survive".

One is funny in a certain light, the other is outright trolling.  ;)

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Hunting (none / 1) (#248)
by twohalfs on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 04:32:24 AM EST

Ok, a question for the submitter and other hunters around here. Surprised to see so many on kuro5hin. Why do you do it? I've seen that question asked before but somehow I was never convinced by the answers. Is it the thrill of the chase, does it make you feel powerful? What exactly is the pleasure of it? Please don't say you do it for food, unless they don't have grocery stores where you live.

The only clue that the article gives is:

"Hunting is a good skill to have and fun to cultivate and it is a good way to explore some different cuisine."

Is that it?

I am not saying that hunting is necessarilly wrong. I eat hamburgers and I know where they come from. I am not against gun ownership either. Still, but I couldn't get myself to look at a living creature and deliberately cause it suffering and/or death, at least without a good reason.

My take. (none / 1) (#249)
by eavier on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 06:07:44 AM EST

In some countries, hunting is encouraged to periodically cull certain species that are overwhelming the environment.

Rabbits, Possums & Goats have decimated various fauna and pasture in my native country (New Zealand) and as such, are culled to prevent further damage. In the case of two of the introduced species above, rabbits & possum, millions of dollars worth of farmland and forestry has been ruined because these two species have no natural predators and their populations run amok.

As I come from a rural background and have seen the effects of these species unchecked, I am happy to pick up a rifle / shotgun and take them out.

When approached by a tree hugger, the above will be the first reason I give for hunting. Many urbanites are typically horrified that people may actually enjoy hunting because the thought of killing something living is abhorrent to them.

But, I am happy to admit to you that I enjoy the hunt immensely. It is a sport that involves a large amount of fitness, stealth and skill. I am also happy to admit that if this animal is destroying native forest or taking someone's farm productivity from them, I am happy to pull the trigger. It does not make me feel powerful but the thrill of the chase or an excellent difficult shot is very rewarding.

I've been doing it for years and it's something I look forward to when I'm home.

That's why I do it.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

I do it for your first reason (none / 1) (#254)
by livus on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:00:40 PM EST

and because I enjoy seeing a possum put to good use.

I don't enjoy the fact that I've killed something but it is very satisfying to lessen your pest population. It's also especially enjoyable to get a particular animal that you're targetting, after you've seen the devastation that it has created.

I prefer to trap, though. Goats make great burger meat but I don't like the idea of having to run around the hills with a rifle all afternoon, and I don't pig hunt because that would make me a pighunter.

I don't like this squirrel article. Those things are damn cute, given that there aren't any in nz.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Goat hunting (none / 1) (#264)
by eavier on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 03:46:06 AM EST

is also a great way to catch up with my mates.

I'm in old Blighty a lot so when I get home this is a great way to catch up on how they're doing without actually sitting down and saying 'how you doing'.

I like tramping around the hills as it's in such stark contrast with London life. I agree with you on the killing side of things. I don't actually like to stop and ponder that I've just extinguised something's life.

My grandfather used to trap possums all the time but it's something I've never done. I guess if I was making use of the skins afterward that would be the way to go. Where do you trap / hunt?

As for squirrels, I've spent literally hours watching the little suckers scurry around English parks & countryside so yeah, the idea of blowing one away doesn't particularly appeal. I liked the article from the point that it was well written and on a subject I'm familiar with. It's always amazed me with the amount of oak trees around the Waikato that squirrels weren't introduced, hell, everything else was.

btw, how did you burn your hands?

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

The squirrels in London are cool (none / 1) (#266)
by livus on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 05:26:31 AM EST

the way they come right up to you. I live in the city so I only go after possums when spending time with the whanau on the coro.

Burnt myself trying to use a microwave to boil veges - steam got me.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Sure. (1.00 / 3) (#280)
by sirclive on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 05:01:29 PM EST

I am also happy to admit that if this animal is destroying native forest or taking someone's farm productivity from them, I am happy to pull the trigger.
Oh, how noble of you! You might also try checking those rain forrests of south america, and shoot some bullets up the arses of people ruthlessly destroying the forrest and taking the living space away from the natives, if you're such a rabid environmentalist.

[ Parent ]
IHBT [nt] (none / 0) (#281)
by eavier on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:24:15 AM EST



Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]
T: "TROLLED" or "TOLD"? (1.50 / 2) (#282)
by sirclive on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:50:58 AM EST

I wasn't trolling. I was just amused by your attempt to present hunting as a noble excercise at saving poor farmers from starving to death. If you find shooting at animals who can't shoot back arousing, so be it. Just don't run around insulting our intelligence by pretending it's such a great and neccessary duty that you take the burden of carrying with you, for the good of the mankind.

[ Parent ]
I'll bite (none / 0) (#283)
by eavier on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:13:54 AM EST

Have you read my other threads on that post by twohalfs?

I'm not saying what I do is noble and definately not arousing. Just necessary. My parents own and run a farm that survives on milk producing dairy cattle. As an intensive unit milking 250 animals on 200 acres, they require all arable pasture to feed and maintain a herd of that size.

Rabbits, hares and other 'vermin' eat a vast amount of feed (grass) left unchecked. For every rabbit above ground, there is eight below. Eight rabbits often eat the same amount of grass in a day as does an adult cow. They also erode paddocks with their tunneling networks. When said tunnels collapse, adult cattle can break their legs in these holes.

Possums spread TB. Whole herds can be quarantined and sometimes destroyed becuase of an infected possum.

I have not been told but you clive are a troll.

It is a necessary duty and I thought my argument was pretty well presented. I'm am not gun-ho. I am also not doing it for the good of mankind but I am doing it for my parents & friends parents economic interests.

What makes me laugh motherfucker is cats like yourself. You are so convinced that you are right and I am the inbred redneck who derives pleasure from killing. You can't reason, even when politely explained too, the reason for my actions.

You clive, are amusing.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

Bite what? (none / 1) (#284)
by sirclive on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:44:52 AM EST

If I dissagree with you and if I don't buy your claims doesn't make me a troll.
What makes me laugh motherfucker is cats like yourself
I didn't realize calling people "motherfucker" was considered polite where you come from.

Let me quote some parts of your previous post, which make it obvious, that all the good reasons for hunting you gave above are nothing but a convenient excuse.
As I come from a rural background and have seen the effects of these species unchecked, I am happy to pick up a rifle / shotgun and take them out.
Read: it's not a neccessary evil, but rather a thing which makes one happy.
When approached by a tree hugger, the above will be the first reason I give for hunting.
"Tree hugger" is also a rather polite thing to call a person, it seems.
Many urbanites are typically horrified that people may actually enjoy hunting because the thought of killing something living is abhorrent to them.
Implies that killing something living is OK with you, not only something that sometimes can not be avoided for a bunch of good reasons.
But, I am happy to admit to you that I enjoy the hunt immensely. It is a sport [...]
You "enjoy the hunt immensely". Just what I said before you called me a "motherfucker".
It does not make me feel powerful but the thrill of the chase or an excellent difficult shot is very rewarding.
You find it a thrill to chase and kill a creature which is much smaller than you are and which can not fight back. If you're into physical condition and aiming abilities, you might also try biathlon.
I've been doing it for years and it's something I look forward to when I'm home.
Case rested.

If you want to be taken seriously, make your mind: is hunting a sad neccessity (pardon my ignorance about farming bussiness, but hunt seems like a damn inefficient way of solving the farmer problems you described above), or is it a great, fun sport that gives you thrills when you excercise it?



[ Parent ]
Christ on a bike (none / 0) (#285)
by eavier on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:19:11 PM EST

I kind of feel you may be picking and choosing my phrases to justify your own private opinion and if so, go ahead. I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I also agree fully that you have the right to disagree with me. I applaud it. I wonder if you would feel the same should you see what damage can be done and lives ruined because of a pest such as the rabbit or possum. Who knows.

If you're trying to get me to break down and confess some sort of affection or bloodlust for the eradication of poor defenceless animals, then I'm sorry, I can't obilge. I don't feel that way.

Granted, there are virii (mexamatosis) and poison drops that can be let loose for Rabbit & possum culling but they are often less efficient for a variety of reasons e.g. the virri cross the species barrier (cats, dogs), or rabbits become immune, possums learn to ignore poison drops etc. The business end of a gun is the tried and tested cure for these pests and as such it is extensively used.

You more earned the term motherfucker for your arrogant tone which still seems to be coming through btw.

Oh and welcome to K5, I'm sure you have a long career of intolerance ahead of you.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

Peace (none / 1) (#286)
by sirclive on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:00:16 PM EST

Look, I suppose this whole discussion went somewhat differently from what we both (?) wanted it to.

It is not intolerance what made me write what I wrote. Frankly, I am out of the age when I cried as Bambi's mother got shot, I couldn't care less if somebody enjoys the hunt - as far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever you wish to the squirrels and rabbits in your garden. I just don't like when somebody pulls the wool over my eyes by presenting some false reasons to excuse his actions, something I had a strong feeling you were doing (regardless of whether on purpose or not).

I guess we can find some topics where we can discuss in a more civilized manner (this goes for both sides). :-)

[ Parent ]
Peace indeed (none / 0) (#287)
by eavier on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:17:29 PM EST

Honesty, there was no wool pulled over your eyes from my quarter. I went out of my way to explain my take of the situation and I wouldn't have bothered had I been 'caught' out.

You obviously ruffled a few feathers because two of your comments were zeroed and hence eradicated - haven't seen that before. Nice work.

See you in the next heated discussion ;)


Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

Zeroed comments (none / 1) (#288)
by sirclive on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:04:07 PM EST

Actually, I was wondering what the heck happened to my comments... I'm new here :-)

Funny, I've seen comments on K5 with WAY more offending/heated content, which were still not censored away. Beats me why I got zeroed. :-)

See ya, and no bad feelings!

[ Parent ]
I zero'd you... (none / 1) (#289)
by t1ber on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:50:06 PM EST

Because you're trolling.  You might deny it, but you're trolling.

If you're too new to know why goading other users has consequences, let this be an object lesson.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Well, whatever. (none / 1) (#290)
by sirclive on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 04:12:30 PM EST

Thank you for the object lesson, oh great master!

Besides, you do know a difference between trolling and expressing opinion by means of an sarcastic post which was over-the-top on purpose?

You found my post looked like trolling. OK. I found your article both extremely disgusting and offending at the same time. Big deal. If you're affraid of criticism and want to censor it away, so be it - I won't lose any sleep over being "zeroed" by some guy on K5. :-)

Sheesh, the moderation system around here is even more broken than on the /., if the submitter of the article is allowed to effectively remove posts he doesn't like.

[ Parent ]
you = fag (none / 0) (#291)
by t1ber on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 09:37:58 PM EST

Sheesh, the moderation system around here is even more broken than on the /., if the submitter of the article is allowed to effectively remove posts he doesn't like.

Swing and a miss.  Come back later when you've gained a deeper understanding of hunting.  And moderation.

Besides, you do know a difference between trolling and expressing opinion by means of...

Voting?

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Fag? What are you, 13? [nt] (none / 0) (#295)
by sirclive on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:06:24 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Ho boy. (2.33 / 3) (#252)
by Universe Man on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 03:18:03 PM EST

"I couldn't get myself to look at a living creature and deliberately cause it suffering and/or death, at least without a good reason."

What do you think you're doing every time you eat a hamburger? You're creating a market demand for the killing of animals for food. And it's likely that those animals were caused not just to die, but also to suffer.

"Please don't say you do it for food, unless they don't have grocery stores where you live."

That's EXACTLY what he's saying--he even gives a RECIPE for cooking the animal!

Do you somehow feel that you're morally superior because you get your food in a grocery store and allow someone else to raise and kill the animal on THEIR terms?? This guy's prey is raised in the wild and is killed on HIS terms by his own hands! You're completely divorcing yourself from the moral dilemma of killing animals for food, and then you have the nerve to criticize him like he's doing something wrong! Unbelievable!

[ Parent ]
Missing the point (none / 1) (#253)
by twohalfs on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:57:46 PM EST

OK, when exactly did I criticize him? I don't think killing and eating your own squirrel is any worse than having someone else kill a cow for you. In fact eating game might well be more ethical than eating animals bred for the purpose. So there, nothing immoral about hunting for food, are you happy now?

Still, there is nothing immoral about urinating in your own coffee either, but why do it? There must be some need being satisfied by hunting, otherwise people wouldn't be doing it. My point about grocery stores is that its most definitely not the need for food. Surely, there are many easier ways to feed yourself than chasing squirrels around with a gun.

eavier was a bit more honest about it by calling it a sport, but he also felt the urge to wrap it in some excuses about protecting forests, farmers etc. Sure, in some cases that might be necessary but please don't try to tell me that most hunters hunt in order to preserve the forests and help the farmers. Obviously the vast majority of hunting is done purely as a form of entertainment, why are hunters so often uneasy about calling it what it is?


[ Parent ]

The wrap. (none / 0) (#265)
by eavier on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 04:09:58 AM EST

Well, I'm not sure I'd characterise it as entertainment.

I've been shooting animals since I was about 8. A highly illegal age to be pulling the trigger I know but as a farmer's son, a fact of life more than entertainment. Putting down a stricken animal gives me no satisfaction and killing 50 rabbits in an evening gives me little more. It was just a neccessity as a farmboy. My father wouldn't had let me hunt had he thought I was overly sensitive to it.

The hunt these days is more a bonding act with my friends as you'll read in my other post to livus.

We all do it for a damn good reason and the one that I've explained in my other post, i.e. hunt in order to preserve the forests and help the farmers because we are all farmers sons. It is also a chance to catch up with old friends.

I've probably been somewhat desensitised to the actual act of killing an animal because I've been doing it for so long but that doesn't mean I actually enjoy it's death as an entertainment.

As I've mentioned previously, I enjoy the hunt and the difficult shot itself. I consider it more of a challenge, than entertainment.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

Some evil bastards (none / 1) (#269)
by sydb on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 04:37:28 PM EST

do hunt for no good reason. For example there was a documentary on UK TV recently about an Englishman, presumably with some money, who goes out to Africa and pretends to be a Lord to convince authorities to give him a hunting permit and receive special treatment from hunt organisers.

I'm embarrassed that I can't remember what countries he visited, but there were several. We saw him going up a river on a boat and taking potshots at alligators or crocodiles (yeah I don't know the difference), lizards of various types, beautiful coloured birds, monkeys... the river bank was strewn with dead creatures who were doing nothing other than minding their own business in their own territory.

He wasn't doing it for food or to keep a population of pests down. I can understand those activities. But there are people who do it just because they can and because they enjoy feeling like the big white game hunter. I know he is bringing money into the countries he visits but then men visiting prostitutes bring money too.
--

Making Linux GPL'd was definitely the best thing I ever did - Linus Torvalds
[ Parent ]

social, environmental, etc (none / 0) (#267)
by t1ber on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 01:47:48 PM EST

I've seen that question asked before but somehow I was never convinced by the answers.

And that's probably your problem, you are absolutely convinced at the moral superiority of your position.

Which is fine.  To quote my mother, who I left out of the story, "I like steak, I just prefer not to know the cow".

Hunting, for me at least, is a chance to bond with my Father (which I put in the article), a chance to eat something different from a McSalad or McChicken or McCow, and it gets me out in the woods.  With the rifles, everyone who hunts in my family understands basic gunsmithing and we all reload shells, so we're incredibly competitive when it comes to shooting at a distance.  Who has the most accurate rifle?  Who has the most accurate load?  Who has the steadiest arm?

It also lets me establish a relationship with the animals.  Most people don't know anything about the environment their foodstock was raised in nor do they know anything about the animal period.  With game, you need to know about the environment, how the animals think, the general health of the herd, how the habitat is doing...  You end up learning a lot about the animals in general and the environment that hosts the animals.  How many people can you name that know anything about turkeys or cows?

A good example of people who know enough to be dangerous but clearly know nothing about the forests are the people who are currently campaigning heavilly around the Valley Forge area.  The deer population is out of control, deer kills along the highway are staggering, and the deer are being pressed closer and closer to the town.

Know what they suggested?

Birth control pills for the deer.  

How fucking stupid is that?  How do you get birth control pills to deer?  (Linky)  The way a deer population works in The Real World is that deer have several young, and most of them die.  This could be from starvation or predators (including people).  There's plenty of things that won't attack a full sized deer but will prey on their young.  With almost no preditors and the abundance of people directly or indirectly feeding the deer, the population has exploded and the gene pool has thinned.  As the population goes up, the deer mate less as they eat everything and run the foodstock down, but the young don't die which serves to have many copies of the same genes running around instead of just one-copy per mating.  The problem is, no-one wants to actually kill the deer.  They realize the deer run into the road (notice how they don't account for either of the highways which had over 20 deer kills a piece, including three years ago when I totalled out my car to a deer bedded down in the median), they realize deer are desperate for food which hurts the historical gardens and woodplots (but failed to notice the deer eating from the trashcans or being fed because "they're cute"), but no-one wants to kill the deer.

So what they're going to do is feed the deer birth control.  Not some kind of culling and sharing the food, but they want to actually put birth control in the deer.  There are people starving in the streets and women doing without because of the price and they just want to give it to the deer.  OK, so the new problem is instead of having three copies of the genes for every mating, if there's a doe that they miss (and it's very likely they will with about 1500 deer to find), that doe is going to be the hot deer for every buck out there.  The solution won't kill the deer in a reasonable way, the solution is going to cause the herd gene pool to become so shallow from every buck mating with this doe that the herd is going to crash into nothingness.  Even if the program is selective about which doe get the drugs, it still dangerously thins the genes as it's not attacking the young, it's attacking the ability of the genes to reproduce and diversify.

But it's all OK, right?  We don't have Men With Guns shooting everything, and we don't have to tell people "no" to feeding the cute animals.

The running gag between two hunters is always that it's a rare environmentalist who actually understands how the environment works.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

A few good reasons why (3.00 / 2) (#270)
by J T MacLeod on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:45:56 PM EST

Still, but I couldn't get myself to look at a living creature and deliberately cause it suffering and/or death, at least without a good reason.

That, in itself, is one of the most important reasons for practicing hunting.  Whether it happens at the slaughtering house or in the forest, we are taking these animals lives in order to sustain our own.  When we make it impersonal, we pave the way for a lot of wrongdoing due to our ignorance or apathy.  Just as it's important for a country's population to understand that real lives are lost on both sides in wars, we need to remember that real lives (even if they are animals) are lost when we eat.  

The most animal-loving, conservation-minded people I have known are the ones who spend their times hunting and using the land.  They are this way because they know the consequences of their actions.  

Another reason is that hunting cannot become a lost art.  One day, our economy might very well break down, and hunting will be the best or only option for many people.  Just reading up on it isn't enough:  hunting is a skill that needs to be practiced to be effective.  

For the record, I've very little hunting experience.  I've never killed an animal myself.  That is to my shame, but despite my southern roots, I just never had the opportunity.  As a child, I was thankful, as I couldn't imagine killing or skinning an animal.  I was too tender-hearted (still am) and squeamish (no longer).  Now, though, I realize that I've no practice with an important skill.  

Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about fishing?  I personally, do (I feel like a monster, making the fish suffer), but many people don't.  I suppose because fish aren't very cute.  

[ Parent ]

Why is nobody mentioning the real reason? (none / 1) (#276)
by twohalfs on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 02:59:46 AM EST

Ok, as I said in one of the previous posts, if you consider eating animal meat to be ok (a whole different argument, but I do) then an animal is going to die, no matter what. Whether you kill it with your own hands or not is not important.

However, my point is that most people who hunt do not do it for food, in fact most of it doesn't even get eaten. They do not do it for the culling of excessive populations either, or just in case civilization breaks down, or for any of the other reasons given. I am talking most here, not all.

No, I don't have statistics and I am not 100% sure I am right about this either, but from my experience it seems to be true that the main reason people hunt animals is the same reson people play Battlefield 2, except you get to do it with real guns, the graphics are even better, and you can do it with your friends, in the fresh air too. In other words, its a form of entertainment. Now, in my opinnion killing an animal (yes, fish included) for the purpose of entertaining oneself is just wrong. Especially given an inifite number of other ways to get entertained.

None of the other reasons make any sense. Bonding with your father, enjoying fresh air, keeping your shooting skills sharp, establishing "relationship" with animals, etc... Any of those can be done with much less trouble without shooting animals at all. Go for a hike with your father, or to a gun range, be an "animal-loving, conservation-minded" person without the gun. They are really just lame excuses people make, especially to themselves.


[ Parent ]

YOU ARE 100 PERCENT RIGHT (none / 1) (#277)
by McMick on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 10:29:59 AM EST

Hunting serves no useful purpose in 90% of the world. It's a form of entertainment, pure and simple, and rather a cruel and barbaric one at that.

[ Parent ]
uhm, both of you need to get bent (none / 1) (#278)
by t1ber on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 08:03:47 PM EST

You start off the post with "I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT BUT I HAVE SOME IDEA PS:  I DON'T HUNT LOL" and then completely fail to make a point.

None of the other reasons make any sense. Bonding with your father, enjoying fresh air, keeping your shooting skills sharp, establishing "relationship" with animals, etc... Any of those can be done with much less trouble without shooting animals at all. Go for a hike with your father, or to a gun range, be an "animal-loving, conservation-minded" person without the gun. They are really just lame excuses people make, especially to themselves.

See, this is where you cross the line from being underinformed, which I'm OK with and it's why I wrote the article, to being an arrogant prick.  

Seriously:  If you want to dictate how I spend time with my father, go fuck yourself.

Lets just assume for a minute that you're completely, utterly, absolutely wrong.  You wouldn't have a leg to stand on, right?  So lets take your arguments apart, one by one.

However, my point is that most people who hunt do not do it for food, in fact most of it doesn't even get eaten.

Actually, according to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, up to 50% of hunters fail to report taking a deer.  If they're shooting and running, why even bother taking the risk of poaching when you can get your rocks off in a safe and legal way playing at home?  The PGC finds most of it's illegal deer at the butcher shops where deer don't have tags.  Plus, if you wanted to hunt but didn't care for the meat, there's a variety of social programs for donating the meat to those who need food.  It simply doesn't make sense to apply for a hunting permit then not follow the rules.  For the hunters posting deer to meat-processors without tags, this surely is a result of them already in posession of one deer and not having tags for the second one.

They do not do it for the culling of excessive populations either

Yeah, OK, there's this concept of a Wildlife Management Unit, I strongly suggest you read the publicly available rules on this whole thing before opening your mouth again.

or just in case civilization breaks down, or for any of the other reasons given. I am talking most here, not all.

And I'm saying that you are a goddamned idiot.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

Wow... (none / 0) (#275)
by The Real Lord Kano on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 04:17:39 AM EST

Please don't say you do it for food, unless they don't have grocery stores where you live.

Instead of delegating the killing of their food to others, hunters and fishermen(persons?) do it themselves.

Still, but I couldn't get myself to look at a living creature and deliberately cause it suffering and/or death, at least without a good reason.

Is "Because I'm hungry" a good enough reason for you? How about that sometimes people want fresh healthy meat that wasn't pumped full of hormones and antibiotics.

LK

[ Parent ]

I'm confused... (1.50 / 4) (#279)
by sirclive on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 04:48:27 PM EST

What is it exactly, that makes *you* so thrive over the subject of shooting squirrels? I mean, I know (now) what's in it for *me*, but from the article, I can't really get your motivation:
It is the end of hunting season in my corner of the world and I have hung up my rifle but I would love to get more people interested in the sport. When the collapse of civilization comes, the only people left are going to be those willing to fend for themselves and live off the land. Hunting is a good skill to have and fun to cultivate and it is a good way to explore some different cuisine. Hunting is also a good way to spend time with my father, the original gun-geek in the family.
Now, which one is it:
1. A sport?
2. A wise preparation for the civilization collapse?
3. Fun?
4. A means to get to taste some different cuisine? Or maybe
5. A way to get through to ones daddy?

I never tried hunting, but now that I read your article, I could even come up with some more great reasons to support this gorgeous way of killing time (hehe - killing, get it?):

6. I get great sattisfaction in turning alive things into dead ones. Where I live, though, it's not allowed to kill people, not even their dogs and cats, so I mostly settle for flies. Oh, and rats, too. Flies and rats. And cockroaches. I'll have to ask whether squirrels are OK.

7. It's a brilliant way to support the ammo industry - way to get out of depression!

8. By hounting squirrels, one can always accidentially shoot another person. Hehe, "accidentially". That would be fun!

9. Shooting squirrels would be a great way to improve my aiming abilities. What for? For those pesky dolphins, that's what! I can hardly wait to get them in front of my muzzle! Hounting them with dynamite gets boring with the time.

To summarize: taking a gun and shooting some squirrels in the wood is fun, furthers family ties (does it also work with daddys who are not ex-marines?), a sport, a great skill, a tremendous preparation for the civilization breakdown, a way to finally get something tasty on the table, it supports industry, gives one the opportunity to kill beings larger than flies, and is a great training if you're into putting the secret dolphin world domination to an end!

Thanks for opening my eyes, man!

squirrel was a major part of early American diet (none / 0) (#292)
by cryon on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 09:43:18 PM EST

both amerind and europeans ate them voraciously. Here is a quote from an old public domain book. Google for the book itself: The shooting of the back settlers is rather _business_ than _sport_. When they are inclined for a frolic of the latter sort, they meet in large parties to shoot the gray squirrel: the devastation made on these occasions is incredible; the following is from the Kentucky Gazette; and I have no doubt, that it is strictly true:-- "_Lexington, July 13th._ "At a squirrel-hunt in Madison county, on the 29th and 30th ult., the hunters rendezvoused at captain Archibald Wood's, and upon counting the _scalps_[Footnote: By scalp is here meant skin, which is an excellent fur.] taken, it was found they amounted to 5589!" This sport is not confined to the back woods, but is in such general estimation, as to be preferred to all other shooting. They find this game by means of a mongrel breed of dogs, trained for that purpose; the squirrel, on being pursued, immediately ascends one of the most lofty trees he can find; the dog follows, and makes a point under the tree, looking up for his game. The squirrel hides himself behind the branches, and practises a thousand manoeuvres to avoid the shot; sometimes springing from one tree to another, with astonishing agility. Nature has given him a thick fur; this circumstance, and the height of the trees, make a long barrel, and large shot, indispensable in this kind of shooting. The best method of cooking the squirrel is in a ragout; this I learnt of a french epicure, who always speaks with rapture of this _bonne bouche_: it has a high game flavour, and is justly thought by the Americans to be an excellent dish; but we have many English, who, through mere prejudice, never tasted this animal; their antipathy also extends to bear, opossum, racoon, and cat-fish:--"Oh!" say the english ladies, "the _sight_ of such frightful creatures is quite enough for me!"' ... Yours, &c. _Philadelphia, May 7th, 1795._ ////////end quote I have trapped and eaten squirrel myself--GROUND squirrel, out in west texas. They are smaller than tree squirrels... but quite tasty!
HTGS75OBEY21IRTYG54564ACCEPT64AUTHORITY41V KKJWQKHD23CONSUME78GJHGYTMNQYRTY74SLEEP38H TYTR32CONFORM12GNIYIPWG64VOTER4APATHY42JLQ TYFGB64MONEY3IS4YOUR7GOD62MGTSB21CONFORM34 SDF53MARRY6AND2REPRODUCE534TYWHJZKJ34OBEY6

Err, grain of salt? (none / 0) (#293)
by t1ber on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 11:14:50 PM EST

I assume you mean this text...

The author also claims turkeys of 40lbs were not uncommon.  I am inclined to think that the numbers were a bit inflated.  If we assume each shot hit the intended mark and there were no misses, then they expended about 300lbs of lead (assume about 385 grains per 50 cal ball).  That's a lot of lead.  ;)

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

[ Parent ]

what's your point? (none / 0) (#294)
by cryon on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 11:21:43 PM EST

So someone exaggerated or guessed wrongly about how big their bird was? OBVIOUSLY the writer went on a squirrel hunt with early americans. And early Americans ate a lot of ssquirrel... sheesh....
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[ Parent ]
Hunting Squirrel: The Other White Meat | 295 comments (227 topical, 68 editorial, 0 hidden)
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