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[P]
HOWTO: Hosting An Orgy

By medharn in Culture
Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:00:00 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

Remember key parties?

No, of course no one here remembers key parties. You're all too young. Well, maybe wampswillon remembers, but she was probably too young to participate.

But back in the day, us grown-ups had orgies. Real live orgies, with real live people having real live group sex. It was part of the zeitgeist of the age, NYC during the economic boom, before the Energy Crises of the Seventies, and after the Sexual Revolution of the Sixties. And it's making a comeback, despite AIDS and STDs.

Here's some tips to make your next orgy a success.


As someone who was old enough to remember sex before AIDS and Herpes Simplex XVIII, orgies were a regular staple of my sexual diet. I've even thrown a few, back when I was living in a pre-war Manhattan apartment on the Upper East Side from 1964 to 1980.

There are two sorts of orgies, the kind where couples gather to couple with other couples, and free-for-alls. The latter is sometimes problematic, what with finding the right ratio of yoni to lingam. Fortunately, some women can be especially accomodating, so it all works out in the end.

So, guest list is key. I was dabbling as an art dealer at the time, so I rubbed elbows with the downtown crowd. Just as variety is the spice of life, so it is the lifeblood of an orgy. Having just heterosexual couples at an orgy is so vanilla. No, it's a mayonnaise on white bread sandwich. I knew a number of gay couples, lesbians, drag queens, transsexuals, and most were welcome to attend. I say most because some of my lesbian friends were rather militant (this was the Seventies, after all), and loved to single out so-called happily married women as an act of subversion against the Empire of the Phallus.

Hosting an orgy is like hosting any party, except with ample fresh towels, lubricants, and nowadays bowls of condoms every six square feet. The liquor should flow freely, the food should not be especially gas-producing (save the Three Bean Salad for the church picnic), and the music should be cosmopolitan, exotic, and daring. Set a mood with music and lighting, something that encourages people to shed their everyday skins. Babtunde Olatunji's Drums of Passion always worked for me.

There's no orgy without some sort of scene. A wife gets talked into attending and then resents having to participate. A husband seems amenable to the idea until he sees his wife blowing a strange man. Some bi-curious straight guy gets buyer's remorse after sucking a drag queen's cock. Someone drinks too much, smokes too much. Words are exchanged, fists are cocked, cocks are fisted.

If this happens, separate the aggrieved parties immediately. Set aside a room for the inebriated to recover their senses. Keep everything cool and under control. Nothing kills an orgy like a full on fistfight. Before you know it, everyone's looking for their clothes and you spend the rest of the night getting semen out of your shag carpets. Knowing a good, discreet cleaning service that works Sundays is a boon.

Basically, if you throw an orgy, don't expect to get tons of sex. You'll get a BJ, maybe some tail, but you'll be too busy playing host or hostess to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.

One last thing: we experienced orgyists call it The Goat. There's always going to be one person whose sexual proclivities define the corner case. The apocryphal example is the guy who shows up at an orgy with a goat on a leash. The practical example is someone who exceeds his partner's unspoken limits, with things like pain, watersports, scat, or fisting, for example. That's the sort of person you show to the door, and who's blacklisted among the informal network of hosts. You can only hope that things don't get out of hand, that people don't get hurt, and that you're not digging feces out of a shag carpet on a Sunday morning. But expect the worst and hope for the best.

Like I said, AIDS and other STDs killed the orgy in its purest form. But so did Plato's Retreat and the gay bath houses. I've been to a couple over the last few decades, but it's just not the same as those golden Sexual Revolution years.

So, good luck with your orgy, and have fun.

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Related Links
o key parties
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o Drums of Passion
o The Goat
o Plato's Retreat
o gay bath houses
o Sexual Revolution
o Also by medharn


Display: Sort:
HOWTO: Hosting An Orgy | 138 comments (97 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
Useful Information (2.50 / 4) (#1)
by alphaxer0 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:57:20 AM EST

A solid contribution to the k5 collection.

Well (none / 0) (#97)
by RickJamez on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 10:58:58 PM EST

I am convinced, now its time for me to run this idea by my gf.
free cell phone wallpapers
[ Parent ]
I don't believe in "real sex" (2.22 / 9) (#2)
by nostalgiphile on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:10:32 AM EST

"Real sex" is what you're supposed to have when you're not masturbating, only it's never as good (or as frequent) as the fantasies you have while masturbating. In short, "real sex" is a myth.

Still, this is a pretty good article, tinged with just enough 70s nostalgia for me to +1FP it.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler
What in god's name are you talking about (none / 0) (#99)
by killmepleez on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 02:20:29 AM EST

I spent three virgin decades in Xtian hellfire repression guiltily fisting myself throughout the day while concocting all kinds of elaborate and perfect fantasies to be my roadmap to orgasm. And you know what? I was lucky that my first boyfriend was both patient and open and nasty-minded, because it wasn't long before I realized so many of those fantasies could come true. Do you have any idea how amazing sex can be when done with someone who has spent a year or two learning exactly where and when and what you want done to you, with enough creativity to combine the various scenes, roles, and gear in seemingly infinite ways?

After a year in a monogamous relationship, I went from jacking off three times a day to jacking off three times a month, if at all. Occasionally I would find myself getting ready for bed at night all horned up, but it didn't make me want to play with myself -- it made me want to grab the overnight bag, drive over to my boyfriend's house, and spend an hour fucking each other to sleep.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
Wait a minute.... (2.00 / 2) (#114)
by The Real Lord Kano on Tue May 16, 2006 at 03:19:57 AM EST

You had a boyfriend...
You jack off...

You're a homosexual and you tricked me into reading about your sodomy!!!!

Not cool dude. Not cool at all.

[ Parent ]

IAWTP (none / 0) (#137)
by norm on Sun Jun 11, 2006 at 02:20:31 PM EST

Sick.

i'm a guy. i'm a troll. there, i've said it. --wampswillion | scientology
[ Parent ]
You're forgetting something vital (2.00 / 4) (#5)
by Lode Runner on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 02:29:04 AM EST

Much more important than who comes is when.

Nota bene, medharn: I consider your story harassment.

i always find planned sex (1.66 / 6) (#6)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:02:14 AM EST

not as enjoyable as random sex

the drunken random threesome i had was mind blowing

but the one i meticulously planned was a total let down

so i think the best way to have an orgy is, in fact, to not prepare for it at all


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

The spontaneity is not in receving the invitation (3.00 / 6) (#11)
by rpresser on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:32:08 AM EST

nor in hosting the shindig. The random enjoyment for an invitee would be provided by hooking up with strangers that you did not know were going to attend.

I speak completely without any practical experience of course; my entire life has been strictly vanilla. A bit spicier than mayonnaise, perhaps, but certainly no club sandwiches.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]

well said (none / 0) (#25)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:04:30 PM EST

can't argue with you there


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Style (2.57 / 7) (#9)
by Scrymarch on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:49:07 AM EST

Please expound further on orgy (or, technically, pre-orgy) fashion. Is it best to follow the Roman cue, with loose, flowing clothes, or are little black dresses more appropriate? Should I grow a full handlebar moustache or is a merely lip covering one sufficient? How long should I grow my sideburns?

You've hit the nail on the head (3.00 / 6) (#78)
by rustv on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 04:02:17 PM EST

When you go, make sure to wear a full handlebar moustache and a little black dress. Your sideburns should touch your shoulders.

____
"Don't tase me, bro." --Andrew Meyer
[ Parent ]
Plato's retreat (2.00 / 2) (#13)
by rpresser on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:35:41 AM EST

I remember reading a Playboy article (yes, I read them; what else are you supposed to do after washing your hands?) about Plato's retreat. Of course I was about twelve, so it was only a dream ...

Wasn't/Isn't the vacation place Sandals supposed to be a permanent floating orgy, too?
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty

You may be thinking of Hedonism. (none / 0) (#100)
by nasty1 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 04:02:04 PM EST

Particularly Hedonism II in Negril, Jamaica.

yeah yeah whatever
[ Parent ]
I only remember (none / 1) (#15)
by Psychopath on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:16:02 PM EST

tequila and porn parties.
only in my imagination though.
--
The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain. -- Karl Marx
thats funny (none / 0) (#61)
by Altus on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:14:24 PM EST


I recently attended a scotch and porn party.

actually, it was titled "good scotch and bad porn"

the scotch was fantastic... unfortunately the porn was also just as advertised... really really terrible.

"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
[ Parent ]

"medharn" more like "mad horn" (2.33 / 3) (#19)
by Patrick Chalmers on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:29:28 PM EST


Holy crap, working comment search!
It's an obvious play with old medham. (3.00 / 3) (#24)
by tetsuwan on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 05:33:29 PM EST


Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

who has a user id of 6831 (none / 1) (#27)
by my gold bling shines on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:49:29 PM EST




Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
[ Parent ]
Medham (none / 0) (#29)
by medharn on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:59:43 PM EST

I'm surprised anyone remembers the old bean.

Warmest regards,
Medharn

The real 'medharn' has userid 32762.
[ Parent ]

heh (none / 1) (#53)
by tetsuwan on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:58:26 AM EST

An old play with the old bean.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

+1 when it goes to votes (2.33 / 3) (#21)
by Golden Hawk on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:18:43 PM EST

Stories like this are why I love kuro5hin.  Stuff that's interesting but other news and opinion sources would shy away from.
-- Daniel Benoy
Vote Abstain (2.44 / 9) (#34)
by partialpeople on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:02:58 PM EST

Because no sex is safe sex.

There is no safety in this life (none / 0) (#90)
by brain in a jar on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 07:32:00 AM EST

all roads lead to death.


Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

But how to have sex? (2.00 / 4) (#36)
by United Fools on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:08:04 PM EST

That has to be answered first.

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
1st step in learning how to have sex (3.00 / 3) (#37)
by maynard on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:17:37 PM EST

OK, see that electrical outlet? Grab your cock, then go at it! You'll be stimulated, I promise.

Read The Proxies, a short crime thriller.
[ Parent ]
You'll have him thinking he's unusually large... (3.00 / 4) (#58)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 08:41:58 AM EST

Since it doesn't fit. Nay, use a lightsocket instead.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
Just use your head. /nt (none / 0) (#76)
by Soviet Russian on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:26:35 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Use our heads? (none / 0) (#81)
by United Fools on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 07:39:45 PM EST

We are fools! So that's kind of hard...

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
[ Parent ]
Why is this article rising much faster than (1.66 / 3) (#54)
by United Fools on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:02:55 AM EST

the advice one? The K5 rating system is not fair.

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
Because people like this one more. (none / 0) (#59)
by rpresser on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:25:59 AM EST

Fair is a useless term in this arena.
------------
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
[ Parent ]
remember the Ice Storm? (none / 1) (#63)
by thankyougustad on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 06:09:51 PM EST

Your vote (1) was recorded. This story currently has a total score of 69.

No no thanks no
Je n'aime que le bourbon
no no thanks no
c'est une affaire de goût.

Yeah (none / 0) (#64)
by tetsuwan on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 06:13:34 PM EST

Key parties prompted that association. Excellent flick.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

more orgy tips (2.40 / 5) (#66)
by SFJoe on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:26:28 PM EST

Orgies never really went away. I've hosted more than a few and can add a few tips of my own. First off, I never allow alcohol. It leads to too many problems. From "whisky-dick" to misunderstandings getting escalated into a fight, it's not worth the trouble. People can have a few cocktails before they arrive if they really need to. You said that you welcomed non-heterosexual people to your parties. I went one step further: heterosexuals had to be very cool and personally known by me before they'd be allowed in. Straight men are like vermouth - a little goes a long ways. If you have a party with all bisexual and queer folks, you end up having a lot more fun. You're dead on about the host not getting any. With me, it was never a problem finding time but I was always stressing out over the usual party host stuff - is ther eenough food?? Enough condoms? Is everyone enjoying themselves. I was always too stressed to fuck. People hosting orgies are always surprised by how much hard work it is.

Playing spin the bottle (3.00 / 6) (#75)
by Comrade Wonderful on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 09:10:12 AM EST

while discussing open source fashion does not an orgy make.

[ Parent ]
slick read (none / 1) (#67)
by cibby on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:53:54 PM EST

Very interesting... how about a follow-up article?

Ah, those post-Sexual Revolution days sound hedonistic and wild. Now, sex is forced to be sexy, and consequences fuck insecurities.

hey next time (2.75 / 12) (#68)
by wampswillion on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:26:00 PM EST

you write a diary or story  about orgys, could you please leave my name out of the article altogether.

thanks.   that would be swell.  

Sorry, love... (3.00 / 2) (#69)
by medharn on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:30:01 AM EST

I don't know what prompted me to use you as an example. I meant no offence.

If you wish to have an editor replace "wampswillion remembers" with "some people remember", I would not mind in the least.

Warmest regards,
Medharn

The real 'medharn' has userid 32762.
[ Parent ]

that's a big ask (none / 1) (#74)
by my gold bling shines on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 07:53:17 AM EST




Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
[ Parent ]
is there a (none / 1) (#83)
by wampswillion on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:10:26 PM EST

don't ask big asks clause on k5?

[ Parent ]
there sure is (none / 1) (#88)
by my gold bling shines on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:35:35 AM EST

ask rusty to sell the yacht and give you your money back


Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
[ Parent ]
but i like it that rusty (none / 1) (#95)
by wampswillion on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:33:00 PM EST

has a yacht.  and if i could have but one wish in this world, it would be that rusty could have an even bigger yacht.  

ok, that's not true.  if i had only one wish it would be that crazy people would not be crazy and stupid people would not be stupid and mean people would not be mean.  

[ Parent ]

i hope he didn't googlebomb your moniker (3.00 / 2) (#85)
by circletimessquare on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 12:46:52 AM EST

to search for your name in a few days on google, and see this orgy thing pop up first, that would really suck


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Too late (none / 0) (#102)
by procrasti on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:41:54 PM EST

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wampswillon

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]
OMG comment 70 (1.50 / 6) (#70)
by my gold bling shines on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:41:58 AM EST

is a woman bent over, and a fat man pushed up against her


Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
71 - now he has teh cancer (none / 1) (#71)
by my gold bling shines on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:42:30 AM EST




Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
[ Parent ]
Ten reasons not to go to an orgy (2.14 / 7) (#72)
by A Bore on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:11:01 AM EST

Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
AIDS
Syphilis
Genital Herpes - the gift that keeps on giving
HTLV
Pubic Lice
Scabies
Hepatitis
HPV

Many are asymptomatic, the sufferer being entirely unaware that they have the disease. Chlamydia can destroy fertility. AIDS is a lifelong burden, inevitably leading to a wasting, weakened death.

When you have sex with someone, you're objectively having sex with everyone they've slept with in the past, and everyone they've slept with, and so on and so forth.

There was the excuse of ignorance for this behaviour back in the late 70's, early 80's. Pleasures of the flesh can never fill that spiritual need that drives people to concoct these scenarios.

what a sad person (2.20 / 5) (#77)
by SFJoe on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:48:11 PM EST

I'm not sure what sort of personality disorder causes it, but it's really sad when a person's only reaction to a mention of sex is to list some possible diseases. For what it's worth, condoms DO work. I've been to literally hundreds of sex parties, have always used condoms and have never gotten any diseases. While it is poissible to use condoms correctly and still catch something, the chances are fairly remote. To focus on the possibility of catching a disease and ignoring the wonderful benefits of a healthy sexuality is a sign of a crippled mentality.

[ Parent ]
you're insane (3.00 / 10) (#79)
by tkatchevzz on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:00:32 PM EST

lol

plus you get a bonus trollometer medal for mentioning  'literally hundreds of sex parties' and 'healthy sexuality' in one paragraph.

[ Parent ]

herpes. (2.50 / 2) (#86)
by daani on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 12:59:06 AM EST

There are many ways to reduce the percentages, but you're never properly protected. Fuck around enough and you'll get it. I think everything else is either curable or preventable.

[ Parent ]
HPV too (none / 1) (#93)
by wuckers on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 11:02:16 AM EST

Condoms just don't cover enough.

[ Parent ]
But the vaccine will! (none / 1) (#121)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:13:23 PM EST

Unless, of course, folks have some sort of interest in making all those nasty sluts die for their impudence.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]
I feel sorry for you (1.83 / 6) (#87)
by A Bore on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 04:24:08 AM EST

You can never fill that gaping hole inside of you with only sex, sex and more sex. You should stop to ask yourself: why do I NEED this? What is it that is missing from my life?

You are clearly stuck in the liberal mindset that went out of fashion in the 60's. The next time you are at one of these events I implore you - take a moment to look around at the participants. Can you taste the desperation, the unhappy lives, the very antithesis of la dolce vita myth? Are you aware of the statistics about swingers, the unhappiness of one of the partners, the desperation to stay in an unhealthy relationship that leads to unhealthy behaviour?

You know, for a woman to act like a bonobo takes some serious reordering of her mental machinery, away from evolutionary stable strategies of abstinence and monogamy (due to her likely burden of having a child). Have you ever considered what must have happened to these people in their lives to reprogramme their behaviour in this way? I'll give a short answer - parental abuse. Studies show it again and again.

Women at an orgy are, in very few cases, there because of a romanticised notion of unfettered and free sexuality that transcends old fashioned social mores. They are there because they are, on some level, seeking a repeat of the abuse they suffered, because they feel worthless or degraded, and you are happily aiding in the abuse to get 'your rocks off'.

That, I'm sorry to say, is the objective truth of the matter.

[ Parent ]
I take offense to your comment about Liberals (1.66 / 3) (#91)
by modmans2ndcoming on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:45:35 AM EST

I am a Liberal and I find the idea of Orgies repugnant and dangerous.

You do not have to be some super religious conservative to have a strict moral code when it comes to life.

[ Parent ]

AMERICANS! (1.85 / 7) (#92)
by A Bore on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 09:10:36 AM EST

THE WORD LIBERAL HAS A GREATER MEANING IN THE REST OF THE WORLD ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR IMAGINARY POLITICAL BOUNDARIES, MUCH LIKE THE WORDS "EDUCATION" AND "ELECTION".

[ Parent ]
umm. (1.00 / 2) (#94)
by modmans2ndcoming on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 11:42:21 AM EST

In the context that you were using it, not a whole lot greater.

[ Parent ]
conservative propaganda (none / 1) (#98)
by bunk on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 06:42:38 AM EST

and a woman's place is in the kitchen i suppose?


hunger strike + bong hits = super munchies -- horny smurf
[ Parent ]
What an odd dichotomy (none / 1) (#104)
by A Bore on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:09:41 AM EST

If I don't believe a woman's place is being force fed cock, abused and trashed like a piece of meat, then I'm a male chauvinist?

Every point I made is easily verifiable - but if you'd rather not know the truth then, please, roll right along on your pinhead tracks.

[ Parent ]
You don't know what you are talking about (none / 1) (#106)
by vhokstad on Sat May 06, 2006 at 07:29:53 AM EST

The very fact that you seem to believe that swinging generally involve a woman being force fed cock, abused and trashed like a piece of meat, shows:
  1. - that you have never been at a properly organized swingers party, nor been involved in any situation with multiple partners that know how to go about this. Generally, if anything, it's a situation where women tend to be the ones in control, or you (the guy) lose out. Anyone - man or woman -  that tries to push his partner into something like this is an idiot, and is more likely to lose his/her partner than get lots of sex. The way to get lots of group sex is to not be pushy and show that you can always be trusted to respect your partners boundaries.
  2. - that you don't know much about women. There are lots of women out there that will be the ones to take initiative to swinging and participation in orgies etc. because they want to and they enjoy it. That you can't see the difference between women liberated enough to choose to live out their sexuality in ways that aren't dictated by male and/or religious stereotypes - i.e. either the "victim" or "whore" images - is your problem.
This isn't then 40's. There's no excuse for thinking that women aren't just as sexual as men are, and mostly in the same ways. Sure, there are differences, but they are much smaller than what small minded reactionaries tend to think.


[ Parent ]
Backwash (none / 1) (#117)
by A Bore on Tue May 23, 2006 at 09:44:37 AM EST

I see. You're only abusing them *A LITTLE*. That really comforts me.

Tell me - obviously you're a man or woman of some morality and feeling. What are the screening programs you take part in before you go ahead with your lustful parties?

I mean, presumably, you wouldn't want to take advantage of the abused, or the ones who are there because they were forced to by a partner. So how do you speaprate out these people? How do you ascertain the damaged goods, the ill ones, the abused?

Oh wait, you don't. Never mind. Sorry if I challenged your sense of righteousness. You can safely ignore the point I'm making by yelling about womans rights, free love - all the usual smokescreens. You'll feel much better after that.

[ Parent ]
No, what makes you a chauvinist (3.00 / 2) (#112)
by mrogers on Mon May 15, 2006 at 04:58:25 PM EST

is that you think it's your place to define a woman's place.

[ Parent ]
*I'M* defining (none / 0) (#116)
by A Bore on Tue May 23, 2006 at 09:38:20 AM EST

When a psychologist preys on a vulnerable patient and I say that it is wrong, am I "defining" that poor woman or man's sexuality? To help the needy, the mentally ill, to prevent their abuse, is to somehow force my values on them?

What a sociopath. Have you no empathy in you at all?

[ Parent ]
Well, yes. (none / 1) (#124)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:39:41 PM EST

When you're conflating all women with the mentally ill, saying that women are all vulnerable, you're saying that they're incapable of defining their own sexuality and making their own choices, and you, being the big-hearted fuzzy bear that you are, just happen to be available to do it in their stead.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]
Ahem (none / 1) (#125)
by A Bore on Thu May 25, 2006 at 02:49:51 AM EST

Quoting myself:
Women at an orgy are, in very few cases, there because of a romanticised notion of unfettered and free sexuality that transcends old fashioned social mores.
Where did I say ALL women at an orgy were mentally ill? I think the Strawman said that. You should continue to argue with him, instead. You seemed to be enjoying it.

I'm talking about the damaged. If you can't understand that, if you can't admit that there is a subset of women like this, as is well documented, then you have the problem, and hand waving ad hominems about my lack of respect for women's choices, while cathartic, will not avail you.



[ Parent ]
Then why mention it? (none / 1) (#132)
by grendelkhan on Thu May 25, 2006 at 02:50:22 PM EST

Are you positing a small subset or a vast majority of women who are only in this scene because of historical or abuse? If the former, why do you bring it up at all?

If the latter, it's close enough to all to make no difference--you're saying that all women who lead lifestyles of which you don't approve, except for a tiny majority which you waved away in an attempt to dispel the argument that you are, indeed, saying that women can't really mean to make these choices; they must be beaten or raped into it.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

Happiness is Objective? (none / 0) (#105)
by jesus2dot0 on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:40:34 AM EST

Have you heard of the Scientific Method?

When you measure your Objective Truth, does it actually involve use of the Scientific Method?

Because I know quite a few people with open sexual lifestyles who are very very happy.

I happen to be one of those myself, in fact. Neither me nor my friends with such lifestyles have a history of abuse.

I'll grant you one point, though: Our open sexual lifestyles are not based on sex alone- we do need and desire emotional and intellectual connections with most sexual partners as well.

We also tend not to be as interested in the orgy format that is with lots of random people. On the contrary, most sex parties end up forming into communities and only introducing new people on occasion, and based on someone already involved knowing and trusting them.

I think people do exist with the profile you mention, but that has more to do with our wonderfully sexually-fucked-up society than with any inherently unhealthy nature of open sexual relationships.

And actually, if you want to talk about non-monogamy as not being "evolutionary"- go do some reading- there are plenty of non-monogamous mammals in nature.

[ Parent ]

This made me laugh so much. (none / 1) (#118)
by A Bore on Tue May 23, 2006 at 10:03:09 AM EST

"Have you ever heard of Scientific Method?"

followed by the killer

"Because I know quite a few people with open sexual lifestyles who are very very happy"

Repeat after me "A-N-E-C-D-O-T-A-L E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E != S-C-I-E-N-T-I-F-I-C M-E-T-H-O-D"

I'm a molecular biologist, btw. You go on about the joy of sex - before we discuss this, can I confirm - you're a guy, right?

And as for nature, well, apart from the aforementioned Bonobo monkeys (you did see that in my original post, right?), you'd be hard pressed to come up with more than a handful of truly non-monogamous higher creatures, certainly among the mammals for instance. Were you perhaps thinking of insects? In fact, I could name 5 monogamous invertebrates for every non-monogamous one you name. Want to play?

[ Parent ]
You're not exactly swimming in science-juice. (none / 1) (#123)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:37:46 PM EST

Hand-waving claims of "studies show" aren't the scientific method either, you know. But I suppose a molecular biologist would know that.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]
But no-one asked, did they? (none / 1) (#128)
by A Bore on Thu May 25, 2006 at 08:20:58 AM EST

Must be something about it being pretty obvious. But for the record,
Brener et al. 1999; Lang et al. 2003
Health behaviours resulting from sexual violence?
Engaging in high-risk sexual behavior such as:
* Unprotected sex
* Early sexual initiation
* Choosing unhealthy sexual partners
* Having multiple sex partners
* Trading sex for food, money, or other items
Also an increased risk of substance abuse.

[ Parent ]
I must be missing your point. (none / 1) (#131)
by grendelkhan on Thu May 25, 2006 at 02:40:34 PM EST

But there exists a strong social norm at any sort of group sex event towards safer sex; one might say a stronger norm than in one-on-one encounters, since there's peer pressure. What makes attendees inherently unhealthy? And why are multiple partners at one time worse than multiple partners in a row?

And I'm a little fuzzy on how sexual violence is linked to this sort of thing. Orgy is to gang rape as judo class is to mugging, you know?

And wait a second, your links don't have anything to do with consensual orgies; they're papers about behaviours in survivors of sexual violence, which, in the abstracts at least, don't mention the consensual orgy scene.

You claim that if women have many sexual partners, then they have been the victims of abuse. You back this up with papers showing that women who are the victims of abuse end up with an array of self-destructive behaviors, some of which are similar to the behaviors of swingers or orgy enthusiasts, if you squint.

Those links don't show what you think they show.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

Ooh, you left out something. (none / 0) (#122)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:36:01 PM EST

Works for gays, too!

--
You can never fill that gaping hole inside of you with only sex, sex and more sex. You should stop to ask yourself: why do I NEED this? What is it that is missing from my life?

You are clearly stuck in the liberal mindset that went out of fashion in the 60's. The next time you are with another man I implore you - take a moment to look at yourself. Can you taste the desperation, the unhappy life, the very antithesis of the sexual-freedom myth? Are you aware of the statistics about homosexuals, the unhappiness of one of the partners, the desperation to stay in an unhealthy relationship that leads to sick behaviour?

You know, for a man to act against nature takes some serious rejiggering of his mental machinery, away from evolutionary stable strategies of making babies. What must have happened to you people in your life to reprogram your behaviour in this way? I'll give a short answer - parental abuse. Studies show it again and again.

Men in a gay lifestyle are, in very few cases, there because of a romanticised notion of unfettered and free sexuality that transcends old fashioned social mores. They are there because they are, on some level, seeking a repeat of the abuse they suffered, because they feel worthless or degraded, and you are happily aiding in the abuse to get 'your rocks off'.

That, I'm sorry to say, is the objective truth of the matter.
--

It works for any sexual minority. Try it for furries!
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

Where is the evidence? (none / 0) (#126)
by A Bore on Thu May 25, 2006 at 02:51:21 AM EST

Quoth chapter and verse. Otherwise you're trying to conflate other issues to detract from the original one. I'm not aware of any studies that back up what you say, unlike the case I laid out in grandparent.

[ Parent ]
Don't get it twisted. (none / 1) (#113)
by The Real Lord Kano on Tue May 16, 2006 at 03:12:04 AM EST

I'm not sure what sort of personality disorder causes it, but it's really sad when a person's only reaction to a mention of sex is to list some possible diseases.

This wasn't prompted by a mention of sex, it was prompted by a mention of semi-anonymous random sex.

Joe, would you have sex with someone that you knew to be HIV positive even with a condom?

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't do whatever it is that they want to do, but there was no need for you to slam the previous poster because he wanted to inject some sober reality.

LK

[ Parent ]

10 reasons? More like 1/2 a reason (none / 1) (#115)
by ckedge on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:56:32 PM EST

> Chlamydia
Curable

> Gonorrhea
Curable

> Syphilis
Curable

> Genital Herpes
incurable, but now known to have NO LONG TERM HEALTH EFFECTS (scroll down to "Long-term effects" on wikipedia).  25% of ALL Americans already have this (http://www.ashastd.org/herpes/herpes_learn.cfm).  If you've had 4 partners or more in your life, you've already slept with someone that has herpes.  Here's another choice quote from the asha page - "Oral and genital herpes can be uncomfortable, but they are generally not dangerous infections in healthy adults."

> Hepatitis
Vaccine availalbe, being given to all teenagers in Ontario, you've taken the vaccine, right?

> HPV
80% of ALL humans have ALREADY had this.  Jeezus, go read the first few paragraphs of the wiki article.  This sure as hell isn't a reason to abstain from sex.  If you're a woman you should be getting regular pap smears.

> HTLV
Did you make this up?  I can't find this anywhere.

Oh wait, there it is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_T-lymphotropic_virus - a RARE disease only seen in Cameroon so far.  Are you getting desperate?

> Pubic Lice
Gimme a fucking break.  You read about STDs and no-one mentions this.  Curable for sure anyways.

> Scabies
WTF are you, 10 years old?  Curable.  Not dangerous, does not threaten your life, rare in the civilized world.

AIDS
One in 3000 prevelance outside of high risk groups, one in 600 chance of catching it even if you have UNPROTECTED sex with a known infected partner.  Odds of transmission are even lower for oral sex.

AND YOU'RE USING A CONDOM, right?

Religious nutjobs and women whose mothers scare the hell out of them, scar them for life with fear, and who can't do their own independent research - piss me off.

[ Parent ]

Wow, you're an idiot (none / 1) (#127)
by A Bore on Thu May 25, 2006 at 08:10:33 AM EST

Chlamydia - curable IF YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE DISEASE. Did you just skip over this inconvienient fact? It's quite a serious issue.

Further down your list of idiocy, you state that genital herpes "has no long term health effects", try "has no known cure" and can recur frequently throughout your life, neverendingly causing a spectrum of irritant symptoms. From your dismissive attitude, you sound like you believe you could learn to love your herpes.

>HPV
FFS, do you know anything about reproductive health and viruses? Are you just gleaning your knowlege from a collection of pisspoor wikipedia pages? HPV or human papillomavirus comes in a huge number of forms, sure most of them harmless wart formers. But as for the others, they're implicated in rather nastier increased risk of SCCs and cervical cancers. But, christ, because you read somewhere 80% of us have the safe ones, so don't worry, you think its not an issue?

You shouldn't substitute google searches for actual knowledge, you know. It's a bit embarassing you seem to think HTLV is a disease found only in Cameroon. Try "HTLV-1" or "HTLV-2" next time. In a subset of sufferers HTLV causes particularly nasty leukaemias (BTW- its another asymptomatic one).

These are just the obvious clangers I can pick out from a brief skim of your spew of a post. But you're still blind to the issue - if you have an asymptomatic disease - how do you know to seek a cure?? Congratulations, you're now a vector.

The issue was - high risk behaviour gives you disease. Belittling the burden of having some of these diseases doesn't change that. You have a complete STD test after every party, yeah? Then another after 6 months in case HIV's slipped through? Thought not.

Don't bitch at me because I pointed out you're a walking reservoir for inflicting misery on the human race. And all for an idle fuck.

[ Parent ]
I'd argue you're over-reacting (none / 0) (#135)
by kyrbe on Tue May 30, 2006 at 06:23:48 AM EST

Although you both have valid points, STIs/STDs are not the issue they once were.  Most are curable or treatable.

No-one in their right mind has sex these days without regular check-ups.  Every four months, whether I think someting is wrong or not, I get a full check-up.  I treat it the same as going to the doctor's or dentist's (actually I do all three in the same day).

And here's the real clincher.  I've had sex with several hundred guys in all sorts of circumstances, including ones I'd only just met at drug fuelled orgies.  Number of guys I used condoms with - 6 (in 14 years).  And guess what, I'm healthy (although some would argue mental).

And I'm far from the only person out there like me.  I know of several more I see regularly and keep in touch with.
--
Equal Rights, Representation, Education and Welfare
[ Parent ]

You'd be a lot more convincing... (none / 0) (#120)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:06:17 PM EST

... if you equally railed against serial monogamists. Because, guess what, if you have a relationship, break up and have another, you're not doing anything particularly different.

Here, an illustrated explanation.

And there's quite a strong social norm pointing towards safer sex at orgies. Stronger, one might say, than that toward safer sex in a "relationship", or even toward safer sex for one night stands, because there's peer pressure at the orgy.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

Mindbending logic (none / 1) (#129)
by A Bore on Thu May 25, 2006 at 08:22:59 AM EST

So if I have a sum of 10 sexual partners in a lifetime through monogamy, and 300 through polygamy, you're saying the monogmay is just as bad?

Wow, you're really out there. IT'S THE NUMBERS, STOOPID.

[ Parent ]
No, that's not what I'm saying. (none / 1) (#130)
by grendelkhan on Thu May 25, 2006 at 02:15:28 PM EST

If you float from one short-term, say, two months, "relationship" to another, say, over a course of ten years, that puts you at sixty partners. Let's say you run with a stable orgy circuit, key club, whatever, that has the same two dozen regulars in it for the same period. Can you explain why the former situation is inherently better?

See, I can make up numbers to make my arguments look good, too.
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

I see! (none / 0) (#133)
by A Bore on Fri May 26, 2006 at 03:31:26 AM EST

So if you take the worst case of monogamy, and the best case of polygamy, then you can say polygamy involves less sexual partners!

In that case, I expect you to be similarly in favour of tyranny - after all a truly benevolent tyrant runs a better country than a fractured, ineffective democracy, right??

[ Parent ]
Somethingawful's take on the topic of orgies... (2.33 / 3) (#73)
by aw70 on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:57:59 AM EST

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3636

Definitely worth a read it you enjoyed the main article... :-)

So, the key is actually (2.50 / 4) (#80)
by livus on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:53:12 PM EST

people skills? Hmm I always wondered why those HR types seem so dodgy.

Orgies are as old as time. My mother remembers a scandal in a small conservative town in NZ in the 1940s, where it transpired that some of the locals were regularly engaging in a party trick - one which involved the men getting naked and covering themselves with sheets, which had holes cut in them at penis level. The idea was that no one knew whose was whose.

I was invited to a series of orgies a few times in the late 90s. However, I'd already found out (from their boasting/complaints/commentary) that some of the other invitees were people who I hope to never, ever see naked, much less fuck. I think guest list is important.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

Body image... (none / 1) (#82)
by medharn on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 10:53:38 PM EST

Thinking back to those days, there was a somewhat different attitude towards body image thirty years ago.

Not as many of the men worked out or jogged (there were fewer gyms back then, and the whole Dr. Jim Fixx running craze had yet to happen), so there were more than a few thick waists and spare tires, especially among the middle-aged attendees.

As for women, though facelifts were not unheard of, breast augmentation, tummy tucks, and liposuction were things of the future, as was shaving pubic hair.

On the other hand, nearly half of the regular attendees had all-over tans during the summer months, so they either had a private place to sunbathe in the nude or participated in naturism (nudist colonies were something of a fad back then). Tanning beds and spray-on tans had not yet been invented.

As for not wanting to see some people naked, I recall times when a portly, balding, seventy-something gentleman was often the center of attention. However, that was more a function of his being the editor of a popular literary magazine, the sort of cultural arbitur that can make or break a career. Remember, an orgy is just as much a social event as a dinner party or gallery opening. If your career depends on persuading your wife to suck his cock, well, so be it. The payoff, a three paragraph blurb in the Talk of the Town section about your art or your novel, written by Updike, is well worth the silent treatment on the cab ride home to the Village.

Warmest regards,
Medharn

The real 'medharn' has userid 32762.
[ Parent ]

Thirty years ago (3.00 / 6) (#84)
by livus on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:20:50 PM EST

I grew up in a particularly nekkid hippy prone region.

However, my point really wasn't anything to do with that - I have a squeamish aversion to fucking people I'm not attracted to, that's all. It's not even necessarily physical.

As for taking one's work home with one, no thanks. That's where I draw the line. If I wanted to go into the sex industry I'd do so, and if I wanted to look at old cock being sucked I could always commission someone to create a nice fresco of Lemonparty in my dining room!


---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Attraction (none / 0) (#103)
by jared on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:50:16 PM EST

Exactly.
What are the chances someone attractive to you would show up at an orgy? Pretty damned low.

An orgy filled with people who I found personally attractive might have potential. How many of those are there? Not many at all.

Most folks I know would be very excited to find an attractive person. An attractive person that also finds you attractive is unlikely, but wonderful.
For groups of more than two...I can't even calculate the exponential unlikelyness of that many people being in the same city, much less room or mindset.

[ Parent ]
LOL sig (none / 1) (#89)
by my gold bling shines on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:37:28 AM EST




Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
[ Parent ]
lol jews [nt] (none / 0) (#101)
by Patrick Chalmers on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 09:16:01 AM EST


Holy crap, working comment search!
[ Parent ]
F-1ction (3.00 / 3) (#96)
by sllort on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:21:30 PM EST

Aw cmon, somebody had to say it.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
ok (none / 0) (#107)
by R3X on Fri May 12, 2006 at 01:41:12 AM EST

OK so i ran this by my gf..bad news, its a no go.
Kick & Push
Mucho retardo (1.00 / 2) (#108)
by mcrbids on Fri May 12, 2006 at 04:41:13 AM EST

As a (now) happily married man, I can say that it took YEARS for me and my wife to become intimately familiar with what each other likes. We both are blessed with a desire to make the other as happy as possible.

With this combination, sex leaves a religous experience far, far behind. Imagine having a partner who enjoys giving you exactly what you want, as much as you want, for as long as you can stand it, and who frequently pushes the envelope, in order to try new stuff. that you might like.

And who knows exactly, full well, what you want and most enjoy, and who enjoys giving it to you, while you do the same in return. Absofuckingly incredible. That's what having the right partner in marriage means.

I'm not interested in orgies, they can never come even close to this. By definition the other party barely knows your name, let alone how you like your privates massaged.

Sorry. Orgies are for those who have trouble committing, or are unable to find a suitable partner. By definition, this includes geeks, dweebs, fat slobs, and those who can't differentiate a good sexual partner from a good pet.

I'll pass, thank you.


I kept looking around for somebody to solve the problem. Then I realized... I am somebody! -Anonymouse

I was right with you up until the last bit. (none / 1) (#119)
by grendelkhan on Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:58:06 PM EST

Matters of personal taste are your own issue. But that last bit, about how orgies are for losers, reeks of "and your stupid club is for stupid losers, anyhow!".

Sour grapes, eh? You sure you're not jealous?
-- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
[ Parent ]

ever think of outside orgy? (none / 1) (#109)
by ShiftyStoner on Sun May 14, 2006 at 05:18:14 PM EST

sure the neibors would be offended, but is it illegal in a fenced backyard. or do you go to church or something?

why not encourage fights, why wouldnt you want to kick some tranies ass for cumming on your carpet?

and another thing, any good orgy should start at 4:20, not really, im just trying to be clever. straws razors glass and surenges should also be provided.

now that's an orgy worth fantasising about.
( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler

OMG! (none / 0) (#110)
by ShiftyStoner on Sun May 14, 2006 at 05:21:22 PM EST

24 hour backyard orgy, no, backyard orgy, a neverending story. I'm totaly making flyers.

Finaly, a use for the backyard.
( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler

OMG! (none / 1) (#111)
by ShiftyStoner on Sun May 14, 2006 at 05:22:51 PM EST

I wish i wasn't a broke ass loser in real life.
( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler
Great Story (none / 0) (#134)
by this shit is crazy on Fri May 26, 2006 at 11:05:04 PM EST

i would loved to have been in my early 20s in the 70s orgies would have been a regular event on my calendar ( of course back then they didnt know about the sexual diseases like we do now). Nowadays though i would only be thinking of what diseases the people have or had. SICK, i definately couldnt do it now.

I am posting this comment just to say ... (none / 0) (#136)
by satyr on Wed May 31, 2006 at 08:23:59 PM EST

... thanks much medharn for the courage for sharing this information with us here at K5 site (btw. it's a nicely written article too); also, I must add that I totally regret that I wasn't born yet back then in those "crazy days".

satyr

my signature:
________________

Male, relatively young and relatively well-preserved. :) I see myself as an open-minded person, a critical thinker, rationalist and skeptic.

lamer. (none / 0) (#138)
by Lemon Douche on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 09:33:41 PM EST


_
HOWTO: Hosting An Orgy | 138 comments (97 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
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