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EFNet is almost dead... HELP!

By trueimage in Internet
Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 05:21:44 AM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)
Internet

EFNet seemed to be getting a bit better lately, until this bomb was dropped last night (Jul 10): irc.emory.edu has officially de-linked from EFNet as of today due to excessive Denial of Service Attacks for unknown (but most likely IRC-Related) reasons. It's a great loss for the EFNet community as Emory University's IRC server has for 5 years been a very stable, reliable, and open one. We would like to thank the irc.emory.edu staff for their time and dedication to EFNet, you will be missed. This de-link, along with a few smaller servers leaving, is bringing EFNet to its knees. I can only get on a few servers now, and they are all split. EFNet needs some new servers, and better DOS protection. What can be done to stop the 5cr1pt k1dd1ez from ruining the best IRC network out there?


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EFNet is almost dead... HELP! | 25 comments (14 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
sad (3.00 / 5) (#2)
by strlen on Wed Jul 11, 2001 at 05:13:13 PM EST

yep, its becoming sad. i'm pretty much an IRC addict, and it really hurts :(

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
Too sad (3.25 / 4) (#5)
by xrayspx on Wed Jul 11, 2001 at 05:56:18 PM EST

I haven't been a part of IRC since the Great Split what, 6 years ago? But it's too much of a bummer that all of the splinter networks seem to be dying now too. Maybe it's really for the best, and will actually make for smaller communities/channels with a better signal to noise ratio, even if you don't get all that input. Not that anything script kiddies ever do is "for the best".


"I see one maggot, it all gets thrown away" -- My Wife
Dying? (2.50 / 2) (#23)
by juri on Fri Jul 13, 2001 at 06:08:46 AM EST

I guess by Great Split you mean the time IRCnet and EFnet separated: were there other networks? At the moment, there's 73 367 users (63 servers, 37012 channels) on the segment of ircnet i'm on. I think it sounds rather healthy.

While we do quite often get splits and there's the occasional ddos attack against some server, at least in Finland ircnet has a very firm hold despite the fact that everyone wants to replace it with some better technology; i don't think there's anything that is really threatening its status at the moment. All the other IRC nets are pretty much irrelevant: they exist and some people use them (i'm on openprojects myself) but the mainstream Finnish IRC community hangs out on ircnet, on dozens of basically Finnish-only channels where people tend to know each other in real life as well as through IRC. I believe that community is growing.

Of course there's also the occasional web based chat that attracts users, but AFAIK they rarely have such a loyal and large group of users as IRC.

[ Parent ]

Dianora, the IRCOP? (3.40 / 5) (#10)
by cvou on Wed Jul 11, 2001 at 07:57:12 PM EST

I heard they're attacking the servers she's an oper on.

EFNet and the term "script kiddie" (4.06 / 15) (#11)
by Sheepdot on Wed Jul 11, 2001 at 08:04:24 PM EST

Firstly, EFNet has been losing support for some time so this isn't really suprising. However it is substantial and newsworthy.

IRC networks have been arrising more on community terms, relating to people that like the same things, such as RPing networks, gaming networks, and much more.

They are smaller, but better fit what people like. You don't have to worry about Christian fundamentalists coming in and bashing people in your channel on such networks if there is no one that favors their opinion otherwise on the network. Usually klines are much easier to obtain as well.

Also I have to explain something rather obvious about the term "script kiddie". Frankly, its been overused. A lot of people I know in the business of DDoSing now are *not* kids, usually have a very specific agenda, and will *not* get caught.

That kind of a framework doesn't fit the original script kiddie of years previous. These people are more akin to gang members than kids, and I'd be careful what you say to them. As Gibson of GRC.com found out, you don't mock them and say "Ha you can't DDoS me anymore!"

Such an invitation only invites the script kiddies, "the really young know-it-alls" into doing so.

I should know. What Gibson did once, I do regularly. Only I go furthur, I get the real names of the individuals and their home addresses and phone numbers. I take over their bot networks and remove their Sub7 severs. I've pondered writing an article for k5, but haven't because quite frankly, I plan to keep doing so and that kind of a story would require I give out more info than I would like.

I will tell you that I have found several "script kiddies" in their 20's and 30's that have been running these bot networks through Universities and ISPs. What I've seen is simply amazing. One owner seems to have access to hundreds of *nix and Windows machines for a major ISP in North America, and we're not talking client machines, we're talking DHCP servers, WINS servers, web servers, and etc.

So, despite what you may think about these script kiddies, its becoming more and more evident that they are starting to write their own scripts, which clearly sets them apart from what the original definition entailed.


amen (2.00 / 2) (#18)
by digitalkara on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 07:48:35 AM EST

the massive IRC networks as a whole are on their way out, and i agree the smaller more user-specific netowrks are for the better. mostly i wanted to thank you for setting the script-kiddies comments out in the open. i find it funny that people commonly refer to others who they do not know and cannot comprehend their 'talents' with a derogatory title. these 'script-kiddies' as ppl so call them are the ones who will be running this ever growing technology sphere we live on.
ps; im not one of them:P but because im a curious little cat i cant help but try and learn about the people and things that fascinate lil ole me:)
kara www.KaraC.com
[ Parent ]
Confronting them is the hardest (3.00 / 1) (#22)
by Sheepdot on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 07:13:52 PM EST

Lurking inside their password protected channels as if I was one of their "bots" is just so fun that when I actually confront them and state their full name, occupation, several email addresses, sometimes home address, and other info, they simply sit dumbfounded.

It is *really* hard to tell someone you're about to destroy what took them so long to achieve. It is equally tough when you one by one eliminate their servers, and they watch in horror and plead for you not to.

I have no empathy however.

Only a person as sick and twisted as myself can do such a thing to these individuals that others call sick and twisted.

Like minds never exist in harmony forever.


[ Parent ]
why should i support EFnet? (3.50 / 4) (#13)
by Net_Fish on Wed Jul 11, 2001 at 09:38:51 PM EST

Since telstra removed there efnet server from there network core, most australians have been unable to connect to efnet, it usulaly requires 30 minuites of poking around to find a server that will let the .au ip/name space on.

efnet servers accessible from Australia (3.00 / 1) (#15)
by ajf on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 01:41:18 AM EST

I find that one of irc.east.gblx.net and irc.ins.net.uk always works for me.



"I have no idea if it is true or not, but given what you read on the Web, it seems to be a valid concern." -jjayson
[ Parent ]
Where's the law? (4.00 / 2) (#19)
by MicroBerto on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 09:15:50 AM EST

There was a very good comment posted slashdot asking where the law is.
What I fail to understand is how some Canadian teen ping floods Yahoo! and has the entire wrath of the FBI, NSA, CIA, DIA and Canadian Monties on his ass...meanwhile EFNet servers are subjected to coordinated 3Gbps attacks and the only solutions seems to be give up?
Why has there been no good answer to this? What gives?!

However, I've been using dalnet for the last couple of years because of my music tastes (#mp3_death, #mp3_metal) and openprojects (#mandrake), I'm unaffected. I considered EFNet dead to me for quite a while, when i could never find a server that'd let me on from home or school.

Berto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Bertoline - My comic strip

There's an answer, but you won't like it... (4.00 / 3) (#20)
by jasyoung on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 10:42:01 AM EST

Damages (or lack thereof).

The FBI wants a certain amount of documentable monetary damages to get involved. Yahoo can document direct loss of revenue when they're under attack (banner-ad revenue, auctions, etc). Your IRC server didn't lose any revenue.

People attack the EFNet network because there is incentive to do so (gaining channel ops, gaining nicks, etc). Politics and and large egos and misplaced tatters of idealism prevent implementation of services and policies that would stop most of the abuse. Basically, they're wearing a "kick-me" sign, they know it and they refuse to take it off. It's still ethically and legally wrong to kick them, but it's so fun and easy...

What's happening is a great pity. I used to physically host irc.anet-stl.com, a former EFNet server. I felt bad shutting down our server. But sooner or later you realize that EFNet in its current state is a total waste of time and resources and it can't be fixed.

IMHO, the main reason EFNet is still running is because they don't want to be seen capitulating to the kiddies. Sooner or later business concerns (the businesses that host the remaining servers) will take care of it for them.

[ Parent ]

Know thee this: thour't right, I don't like it. (1.00 / 1) (#25)
by Amerist on Tue Jul 31, 2001 at 07:35:28 PM EST

I cannot say that I can legitimately argue against the reasons that thou've put forth. In fact, I find them quite valid, and indeed saddening.

Entire networks of community resources (such as EFNet, FidoNet, etc.) built the foundations of much of the social organism of the Internet as we know and love it today. Upsettingly, however, these abstractly ethereal structures rest upon very concrete and very real archetectures (the servers themselves.) Some of them (and the services of the individuals behind them) are donated by gallant individuals wholly of body, spirit, and machine; however, even most of those donated services--by virtue of the Beast--were gained through monetary, corperate, or other laborious means.

All of this means that ultimately if the donated servers or services come under attack and the means of the attack exceeds the means of the donation they perish horribly. Worse, if the means of the attack can cause suffering to those who would provide the means of the service, or even an overpowering burden eventually cost vs. effectiveness comes into play and the end is neigh.

I would propose that I would like to see a system that gave some sort of "kudos" or recognition to those who benefit even burgeoning societies like Internet IRC and the like. Perhaps something that makes note of the populations that pass through those strange places and have made it their home.

I would have more to say on this subject but my time is suddenly fleeting.

It is my opinion in this matter that while "damages" directly attributable to a company in monetary values are easily touched and concretely made; the "damages" that a DDoS attack does to the Internet at large, or even to a small number of machines that don't suffer the same monetary loss is equally wicked.

Amerist, Amethyst Magist of the A'Toll Clan.

-------- "What are dreams when we are but the dreams of dreamers yet to be born?"
[ Parent ]
best irc net (3.00 / 4) (#21)
by frufru on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 02:38:29 PM EST

efnet's never been the best irc net, even ircnet is better...

Basic misunderstanding of how these things work. (4.00 / 1) (#24)
by Myrcurial on Fri Jul 13, 2001 at 10:59:27 AM EST

As a long time participant in online networks - from fidonet to (currently) dalnet, I've been frequently frustrated by the lack of clue at the operator+ level. My all time favorite cock-up that has never been repaired is the fact that link route decisions are made by vastly underqualified people in real-time == this is analogous to the average user making routing decisions on a per-packet basis for their hotmail to Grandma. More than once, I've offered my assistance only to have it rebuked or worse - been told that maybe I should try helping out in #mIRC for a while to see if I really like helping people. I guess that the offer of serious network help from a gainfully employed bignet architect was the kind of thing they get everyday...

When the IRC networks are operated with stability in mind, as opposed to the current method which appears to be by city-state or fiefdom, they will return to the stable information and conversation packed places that we all remember wasting^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspending so much time in.

And if anyone from a major network is listening - I've got the plan for how to route on layer 3 instead of layer 8 any time you're interested!

Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are quick to anger, and devastating in power.
EFNet is almost dead... HELP! | 25 comments (14 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
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