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Owner of "Nazisvin.dk" (Nazi pigs) sued over redirection

By dduck in Internet
Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 04:59:52 PM EST
Tags: Freedom (all tags)
Freedom

For some time the owner of the domain nazisvin.dk (litt: Nazi Pigs) has referred visitors directly to the home page of the Danish Peoples Party - a right wing liberal party, which has much in common with the French "Front National" and Austrian Freedom Party. Recently the DPP reported this to the police, but the police refused to take action, as the case is likely a civil courts matter (defamation). The DPP is currently reviewing their legal options, and have warned the owned of the domain that he has until friday to deactivate the referral from taking place automatically.

The owner of Nazisvin.dk maintains that referral is an integral part of the web media, and is investigating the possibility of seeking legal advice from several organizations, including the EFF and Digital Rights.

The story is reported here and here in the Danish newspaper Politiken.


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Owner of "Nazisvin.dk" (Nazi pigs) sued over redirection | 56 comments (34 topical, 22 editorial, 0 hidden)
Damn it all! (none / 0) (#3)
by tenpo on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 09:56:05 AM EST

And I thought the babelfish could translate ANY alien dialect! Douglas Adams, why have you forsaken me?

After some searching i found an online translator (4.00 / 1) (#6)
by tenpo on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 10:17:10 AM EST

However, either the standard of journalism in Denmark is surprisingly low, or it's not a very good translator. I just translated the first paragraph. Enjoy:

Buttons decent 'nazisvin.dk' to his internetprograms adressefelt , proves decent without more ado dikkedarer shipped by at Danish Folkepartis hjemmeside. It'll Danish Folkeparti orchard ceased and has granted the holder from domænenavnet a time limit to at friday to that brake the automatic viderestilling. The thing is fundamental by both parties however deals no about they equal principles.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm. (none / 0) (#11)
by shippo on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:24:12 AM EST

It looks like the late Professor Stanley Unwin wrote your translator. Deep joy!

[ Parent ]
Simple solution: (4.40 / 10) (#7)
by wji on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 10:19:32 AM EST

Change the redirect to the law firm that sent the letter.

In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.
No letter? (4.00 / 1) (#20)
by alge on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:48:32 AM EST

As far as I can tell, the DPP went straight to the police. Lawyers aren't quite as much used in Europe as in the US, you know (:

vi er ikke lenger elsket her

[ Parent ]
What?? (3.00 / 1) (#23)
by wji on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:52:53 AM EST

This isn't a criminal issue!

In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.
[ Parent ]
That's exactly (none / 0) (#50)
by alge on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 04:23:10 AM EST

what the police said. Read my horrible translation, please.. (:

vi er ikke lenger elsket her

[ Parent ]
Seriously (none / 0) (#13)
by enterfornone on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:29:30 AM EST

They could probably get them to take it down by claiming that the nazisvin.dk was misrepresenting the DPP by implying the DPP have links to nazisvin.dk

The easy way to get around this would just have a one page disclaimer and a link rather than a redirect.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.

The owner of nazisvin.dk's arguments (5.00 / 4) (#16)
by murklamannen on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:37:44 AM EST

This is a bad translation of the quotes in the article:

»Sagen handler i bund og grund om retten til frit at linke og frit at lave redirects (automatiske genveje, red.). Det handler altså både om ytringsfrihed og om at bevare nettets anakistiske struktur«, siger Kristian von Bengtson, der ikke finder det relevant, at Dansk Folkeparti er irriteret over linket.

"This issue is in essence about the right to freely link and freely redirect. Thus, it is about both freedom of speech and about preserving the anarchistic structure of the net", says Kristian von Bengtson who doesn't find it relevant that the Danish Peoples Party don't approve of the link.

»Vi kan bevare internettets oprindelige anarki ved, at jeg og andre kan lave link som det her. Dansk Folkeparti kan omvendt beskytte mod link som mit ved at sætte et script op, der lukker adgangen for folk, der kommer via min server«, fortsætter cyberaktivisten. Han peger samtidig på, at Dansk Folkeparti også har mulighed for at blot at lukke for adgangen fra den IP-adresse (internetadresse, red.) som brugerne af nazisvin.dk kommer fra.

"We can keep the internet's original anarchy only if I and others are allowed to link like this. The Danish Peoples Party can conversely protect themselves from links like mine by setting up a script that prohibits access for people comming via my server", the cyber activist continues. He also points out that the Danish Peopls Party have the possibility to prohibit access for people from the IP-address the users of nazisvin.dk come from.

»World Wide Web er et medie, som man - og hermed også Dansk Folkeparti - benytter frivilligt. Brugen kræver, at man er villig til at indordne sig under, at der er fri linking og fri redirect på www, sådan som nettets fædre krævede til gengæld for at frigive teknologien«, siger Kristian von Bengtson.

"The WWW is a media that you - the Danish People's Party also - use volountairily. Usage demands that you agree that anyone may freely link and redirect on the WWW, which the fathers of the internet demanded in return to open up the technology", Kristian von Bengtson says.

Translation, sort of (4.83 / 6) (#19)
by alge on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:45:20 AM EST

Disclaimer: 1) my english sucks and 2) I'm Norwegian, not Danish, so my Danish isn't terribly good, either. I'll try, tho. This is the first "here"-link.

If you type "nazisvin.dk" [nazipigs] in your internetbrowsers adressfield, you will with no further ado [yes that's cheesy] be redirected to the DPP homepage. The DPP wants to stop that and have given the owner of the domain until Friday to stop the automatic redirection. The case is principally(?) important for both parts - but it's not about the same principles.

For the DPP the case is about [slander, or whatever, they want compensation for being screwed with]. For the owner of the domainname, architect Kristian Von Bengston [K.v.B.], the case is about the right to link to whatever you want to link to on the internet.

«The case is really about the right to freely link and freely make redirects. It's about both the freedom to express yourself and about sustain the anarchistic structure [of the net]», says Kristan von Bengtson, who does not thing the DPP being annoyed by the link is of any relevance.

«We kan sustain the internets orignial anarchy by [letting] me and others make links like this. DPP can protect themselves against a link like this by putting up a script that would block anyone coming from my server», the cyberactivist continues. He also makes it clear that the DPP can block the access from the IP-adresse that the users of nazisvin.dk are coming from. [Urm, probably the journalist misunderstanding something there.]

«The world wide web is a medium which one, including the DPP, are using volunatarily. The use of which demands to submit to free linking and free redirecting on the www, which the forefathers of the net demanded for making the technology free», says K.v.B.

The DPP are seeing things differently. They don't talk about internet principals, but [slander/libel].

«It's clear as day, the DPP is [hurt (not emotionally, other kind of hurt)] because one sets nazipigs equals to the DPP. We will not tolerate this, and that's why we are consulting the police», says Carl Christian Ebbesen, IT-responcible of the DPP at Christianborg.

The DPP is currently looking at the possibilities of stopping the trafic from nazisvin.dk with the help of lawyers and [techies]. Simultaneously K. v. B. is looking at the possibilities of support from netorganizations like the American [EFF] and the Danish Digital RIghts.



vi er ikke lenger elsket her

"my english sucks ... (none / 0) (#53)
by wiredog on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 10:35:00 AM EST

my Danish isn't terribly good, either"

Damn, that's one of the funniest things I've seen in a while.

Especially since it's an informative post!

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

Plus (3.00 / 6) (#22)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:49:23 AM EST

because of the redirect one can't just hit "Back".

Now picture some office drone laboring away for the KKK or the American Nazi Party, or even Pat Buchanan. NaziSwine sure seems like an appropriately vile place to go, and yet when he gets there, he sees some Danish almost-mainstream party, with a woman on top, and written in Foreign! Frantically he clicks the Back button, and the page just refreshes -- what if the Nazgul sees him like this?

DPP mainstream... NOT! (none / 0) (#26)
by dduck on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:34:21 PM EST

The DPP is pretty far from mainstream, unless you consider it "mainstream" to refer to immigrants as a disease, and to claim that they "breed like rats". I can assure you that only perhaps the KKK or ANP would consider them "too left-wing". They get hit with lawsuits for racist utterings on a pretty regular basis.

This is all IMHO, obviously. Well, except for the part about the frequent lawsuits.

[ Parent ]

Oh, I believe you (4.00 / 1) (#30)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:52:35 PM EST

but if you don't speak Danish (and God knows I don't), the site looks harmless enough -- sort of cheery, really. That Morten Kjærum fellow -- he looks concerned, like a man with the interests of all Denmark close to his heart. And those three below (which those attractive Scanahoovian chairs, like maybe from Ikea), well, they look like my local school board, and you just can't find a nicer bunch of people than that. They've got that young guy, and the older fellow, and even another woman. I suppose they could be meeting to discuss the best way to slaughter baby seals or nuke France or something, but they look like they were planinng bike trails in the park.

You have to go the German version to really get up a good sense of menace, since everything in German looks like a threat to me (it's like Klingon that way), and even then that woman just kind of drains it off.

Could you persuade them to wear armbands, or at least glower more? A picture of somebody getting beaten would be good, too, or maybe show Pia there holding a rifle or something. Evil's like anything else -- you've got to sell it.

[ Parent ]

"Scanahoovian"??? (none / 0) (#32)
by p0ppe on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:32:56 PM EST

Man, you are being insulting. It's Scandinavian, not Scanahoovian. Sheesh, what would an American think if someone called the US Amberiska?


"Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
[ Parent ]
Actually (none / 0) (#36)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:59:35 PM EST

I see a fair amount of "Amerika" whenever people don't like us, but that's a bit different.

I typoed that -- I mean to say "Scandahoovian", and it's common American slang, not unlike (but often more friendly) referring to "those Limeys" or "them Frogs". From way over here we generally don't have a lot of issues with most European nations per se, only those of their people who come over here, and actually I don't know anybody who has a problem with Danes. Hell, that mermaid statue is cuter than a speckled pup under a yellow wagon.

There must be some semi-derogatory term for Americans over there. "Yank" at least. Think of something and feel free to call me that.

Mostly, though, I was trying to stay in character.

Hey, whatever happened to Tuborg? I haven't seen it here in years. Is it because we (including my proudly-Danish descended father-in-law) said "Scandahoovian"?

[ Parent ]

Tuborg... (none / 0) (#38)
by dduck on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 02:50:51 PM EST

I think that - in general - Carlsberg is exported instead of Tuborg. It's all from the same brewery after all... Actually almost /all/ beer in Denmark is from the same conglomerate, aptly named "The United Breweries".

I gather they are trying to merge with a raft of other scandinavian and northern european breweries, in order to be able to compete with behemoths like Heiniken on an international scale.

[ Parent ]

Behemoths (none / 0) (#40)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 02:58:23 PM EST

like Heineken? Huh, they do claim "Europe's largest", don't they? I didn't know that. I suppose we Americans tend to under-rate anything from Holland -- must be those wooden shoes. Any idea how they compare to Anheuser-Borg?

I see that Tuborg comes from Carlsberg, and I can get Elephant here, but sometimes I want to have more than one beer, and I'm frankly way too light weight to drink much of that and still walk. Besides, my above-mentioned late-lamented father-in-law was a Tuborg drinker, and just as I drink a Lowenbrau to my father's memory I'd like to down a Tuborg for Hap sometime.

[ Parent ]

Beer! (none / 0) (#43)
by dduck on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 04:08:25 PM EST

I suppose we Americans tend to under-rate anything from Holland -- must be those wooden shoes.

Hey, you really shouldn't - my girlfriend is Dutch, and she's a babe!!!!! Slightly exotic, on account of their history as a colonial power in the far east. Yum! :D

OTOH maybe I should encourage you to keep underrating anything Dutch... Less competition that way :D :D

Well, returning to the original topic (beer) I really don't know about the realative size of United Breweries, Heiniken and Anheuser-Borg (scary name, that - or maybe not: "We are the Anheuser-Borg, prepare to be assimilated!" <Homer> "Beer!!!! Arglllllllldrool" </Homer>). I do however agree with your comments wrt. the strength of the Elephant beer. It used to be the Danish beer with the highest alcohol/price ration, and thus the favorite of poor students (ie. all students) and other alcoholics. A few years ago that changed: Carlsberg introduced something called "Master Brew", which has (aptly, it'd say from personal experience) been renamed in the popular wit to "Disaster Brew"...

Of course, if you'd like something even stronger, you should check out Belgian beer. Those crazy Belgians are.. well, crazy :D They'll cheerfully sell you a beer packing over 10% alcohol (volume), which has had it's flavour "enhanced" by a "delicious" mixture of peach and strawberry. Yuck!

Personally I never drink anything stronger than normal beer, which btw. is approximately the same proof as what they sell here as the "strong" version of Budweiser. I used to like strong beer (which we tend to call "gold", on account of the tin foil wrapped around the top of the bottles as a warning (or an ad)), but some years ago, the United Breweries announced a competition among all distributors: The bar that sold the most bottles of Tuborg Gold in a few months would win a big prize! Unfortunately I was a bartender in the Students Cafe at that time, and as the competition period overlapped the examination period at the University, we - the "poor" bartenders - just had to do our best, in absence of custumors. Even so, we almost won, and we made it to the top 10 on a national basis... but I overdosed, and to this day I find it very hard to drink anything stronger than regular lager :D :D

[ Parent ]

Anheuser-Borg (none / 0) (#44)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 05:25:12 PM EST

is really, of course, Anheuser-Busch, but given that they've absorbed so many (mostly lousy) American breweries over the years they're practically their own nation by now.

The "strong" Bud? I think Bud here is 4% (8 proof), but it looks like they adjust for other countries -- I see that in the UK it's 5%, but 4.3% in Ireland. We probably get the weakest stuff here :(

[ Parent ]

Strong beer, definition (none / 0) (#45)
by dduck on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 05:33:46 PM EST

Well, my impression is that the US does indeed get the week beer. This is based on attending a party for American exchange students at the University of Copenhagen. I was wondering why they all got extremely drunk, and did some fact-finding. Turned out they all ordered strong beer, as they assumed that "strong" meant the same thing as in the US... and thus ended up drinking Elephant-strength beers.

Small wonder they got wasted :) A regular Danish Carlsberg is 4.6% volume.

[ Parent ]

That (none / 0) (#46)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 05:44:43 PM EST

and American college students wake up drunk and go from there.

[ Parent ]
I`ve been trying to find (none / 0) (#51)
by FredBloggs on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 09:52:17 AM EST

Easter (or Jule) 0l in the UK for some time now!! Seems impossible! Lets hope that if you are correct and the big breweries do merge, that they`ll sort out that!!

On the other hand, i`m going over to DK again soon...perfect timing! :)

[ Parent ]
Derogatory..? Hmm.. Lemme think (none / 0) (#49)
by erlando on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 02:58:50 AM EST

There must be some semi-derogatory term for Americans over there. "Yank" at least. Think of something and feel free to call me that.
Well.. When we hear something crazy (like a out-there lawsuit (the one with the McDonalds coffee is a good example) or something like that) we tend to just roll our eyes and go "Only in America"... :o)

But it's all good-natured as I'm sure "Scandahoovian" also is. Never heard that expression though.. :o)

Hey, whatever happened to Tuborg? I haven't seen it here in years. Is it because we (including my proudly-Danish descended father-in-law) said "Scandahoovian"?
Hmm.. Tuborg is alive and well. But I have to agree with another poster; Carlsberg is the prime export-beer. But it's all the same anyway.

[ Parent ]
DPP is harmless (none / 0) (#33)
by p0ppe on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:39:21 PM EST

As a foreigner living in Denmark (I'm from Finland) I must say that the DPP is really harmless. I happen to look quite Danish, but I've never had any problem with the fact that I'm not Danish.

DPP is a fringe party and will most likely lose support in the next election. So far they haven't been able to do much about anything.

I'd also like to remind that Danmark is a democracy, the DPP has been elected, they have popular support. The DPP isn't the problem, the Danish people is, if that's they way you want to look at it.


"Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
[ Parent ]
although to carry on the "Nazi swine" an (none / 0) (#47)
by mikpos on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 06:13:10 PM EST

The Nazis were also democratically elected. Hitler was named Chancellor and the enabling act was passed by democratically elected people. Even towards the very end, the Nazis had a very great amount of popular support.

Yes, okay, I'm still fairly bitter towards the Germans. I agree with you: it is the fault of the Danish people, not the DPP (just as it was the fault of the German people, not the Nazis). That doesn't make the DPP harmless, though.

[ Parent ]

Pat Buchanan (4.00 / 1) (#48)
by theElectron on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 06:43:08 PM EST

Very bad form in putting Pat Buchanan in the same boat as the KKK and the Nazis. Think what you will of his ideology, but the man has no history of violence, brutality, or murder. Big distinction there.

--
Join the NRA!
[ Parent ]
perhaps (none / 0) (#52)
by gtx on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 10:10:21 AM EST

but pat buchanan has a way of making the skin of even the most right-wing right-wingers crawl.

-c


--------
i don't have anything clever to write here.
[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0) (#56)
by davidduncanscott on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 05:15:48 PM EST

I did give him the "even". I will agree that, so far as I know, Buchanan's never killed anybody.

[ Parent ]
Previous cases and outcomes (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by DrJohnEvans on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:36:40 PM EST

The most recent instance of this type of case, regarding the domain www.fuckgeneralmotors.com, resulted in a victory for the owners and their campaign for freedom of linkage, if you'll pardon the expression. (The losing party is of course appealing.)

Of course, this was an American case, and the Danish legal system has no obligation to consider its outcome with respect to their own. On the other hand, the scene of the crime-- the internet-- is a truly international entity. It'll be interesting to see where this ends up.

Not quite the same (4.00 / 1) (#31)
by Lord of the Wasteland on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:16:49 PM EST

The cases don't seem to be quite the same. From what I read, 2600 was sued by Ford for trademark violations. The judge correctly ruled that it was bunkum. However, the case here involves libel, which is generally a stronger law. Trademark is supposed to only apply to commercial cases, libel refers to any false, disparaging, and malicious statement. Now, in the US, I'm pretty sure the DPP wouldn't have a case. I believe the standards for libel of public figures or organizations is much higher than for individuals. I have no idea what Danish libel law is like, however.

[ Parent ]
DPP website - English version (none / 0) (#34)
by FredBloggs on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:40:52 PM EST

I went to that page a few months ago (during the election in Denmark) and it was `coming soon` then as well! Surely they can employ one person who can speak a foreign language? Or does that go against everything they stand for?

Seriously, i`m interested in their take on `the immigration problem` - it seems to be more of an issue/problem there than in the UK. Anyone care to point me at a site, in English, which discusses/explains this (without referring to the foreigners as some sort of disease, nor as perfect little angels - i know that neither is the case).


Nazisvin.dk shut down! (none / 0) (#54)
by dduck on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 10:52:29 AM EST

Apparently the automatic redirection at nazisvin.dk has now been shut down. Attempt to access the site get the laconical response:

** this link has been removed **

It is unclear weather this has been done by the owner, or by the provider. The owners site, which cronicles the history of nazisvin.dk, has no information on this.

nazisvin shutdown by myself (3.00 / 1) (#55)
by kvonb on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 11:53:52 AM EST

Well... I shut down the redirect myself. After consulting with computer-law firm vonHaller I decided not to go on, because the case was born to be lost in a danish court, due to libel. The case could perhaps be won in USA because of the high priority of free speech. In Denmark your freedom of speech (constitutional law paragraf 77) is under "responsibility". This mean that freedom of speech has no say if a law is broken while doing it.. So much for Danish law. Sad the rights on the internet is different inside this geografical region. Kristian von Bengtson, owner of nazisvin.dk... read more on www.2600.dk

[ Parent ]
Owner of "Nazisvin.dk" (Nazi pigs) sued over redirection | 56 comments (34 topical, 22 editorial, 0 hidden)
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