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[P]
Homeland Security: North Bergen Style

By mondoqt in Internet
Mon May 24, 2004 at 10:20:49 PM EST
Tags: Freedom (all tags)
Freedom

Tom Rowan, the webmaster of NorthBergenPD.Com, is a patriotic guy. North Bergen, where Tom lives and where he once served as a cop, is part of Hudson County, New Jersey. Hudson County is right across the river from lower Manhattan. Area residents experienced 9/11 up close and personal. Many could see the attack from their windows-- or from streets and parks. A large number of people from Hudson County worked in the World Trade Center. Many of them died that day. Almost everyone knew someone who was a victim, or who was connected to one. Hence local support for the War on Terror has been strong. When accessing Tom Rowan's website you pass through a 9/11 memorial which includes a graphic of a weeping eagle. So it seems odd that North Bergen township officials are trying to shut down Rowan's website by declaring it a "threat to Homeland Security".


NorthBergenPD.Com has been online for 7 years. Before launching the site, Tom Rowan researched the domain name. He was extremely careful about not "violating anyone's legitimate trademark rights, common law or otherwise". The site's home page says "NorthBergenPD" stands for "North Bergen Public Domain". The general topic is local politics with a focus on (surprise surprise) North Bergen's police department. The style is gritty, with the kind of black humor typical to cops-- and to residents of corrupt machine cities. North Bergen, along with Hudson County, has a lengthy history of corruption. North Bergen is currently the subject of a federal corruption probe which has so far produced convictions of a Township Administrator, a Parks Commissioner, a purchasing agent for the Municipal Utilities Authority, a city contractor and a former aide to North Bergen's long time mayor, Nicholas Sacco.

While NorthBergenPD.Com is more raunchy than some good citizen sites, it captures the surreal rot afflicting too much of Hudson County's civic life. Not only does Rowan dish pay for play politics, he also serves up local pols and police who hang with-- and allegedly hustle-- hookers. North Jersey's proximity to various points of entry to the USA, plus its position at the hub of interstate highway transportation, makes its counties a clearing house for international and domestic sex traffickers. The area has a high density of commercial sex establishments and Hudson County has suffered some major scandals re law enforcement involvement. Mysterious deaths of whistle blowing working girls are also Rowan's beat.

Naturally NorthBergenPD.Com isn't a hit with North Bergen township officials. During its 7 years of existence there have been other attempts to shut it down. In 2001, the contention was made that the website's domain name "gives a false impression that it is...an association of law enforcement associated with the township". These attempts went nowhere, thanks in part to local media attention. Plus Tom Rowan is not only patriotic, he's also law abiding.

In early January of this year, NorthBergenPD.Com started web casting police scanner broadcasts. In New Jersey, any private citizen can legally own a police scanner. The only stricture is that it not be used in the commission of a crime. Other sites in Hudson County are also webcasting police scanner broadcasts.

On the evening of May 6th, Tom Rowan came home to find he'd been served with legal papers by the Township of North Bergen. Since he'd been out, the papers were dropped off with his neighbor, who gave them to Tom in a grocery bag. Tom was ordered to appear before Superior Court Judge Maurice G. Gallipoli of Hudson County on May 10th, at an "Order to Show Cause" hearing. His police scanner webcasts were a "threat to Homeland Security". And his website's domain name should be the sole property of the North Bergen New Jersey Police Department.

With only a few days before his court appearance Tom had little time to find a lawyer. Nor did he have a hefty retainer fee on hand. So over those few days he researched and wrote a letter which he hoped would serve as a brief. He delivered the letter/brief to Judge Gallipoli the morning of the hearing. At the hearing (which was held to address whether immediate injunctive relief was appropriate, not to address the overall charges) Superior Court Judge Gallipoli asked North Bergen Township Attorney Herbert Klitzner, a number of questions.

Regarding the scanner, Judge Gallipoli asked Klitzner if anyone could get a scanner from Radio Shack and listen to the North Bergen Police. Klitzner answered yes. But he also said that anyone with Internet access could listen to Rowan's police scanner transmissions and plan a terrorist act in North Bergen. To which Judge responded "Couldn't anyone with a scanner do this?" Klitzner conceded the point. Re the domain name, Judge Gallipoli asked if the township of North Bergen already has a domain name. They do: NorthBergen.Org. Gallipoli then asked Klitzner why the North Bergen police couldn't get a site with a dot Gov domain. At another point Judge Gallipoli suggested several other alternative domains. But Klitzner continued to insist on the township's right to the domain name NorthBergenPD.Com.

Judge Maurice Gallipoli ruled against the township of North Bergen's request for immediate injunctive relief concerning the domain name of Tom Rowan's website and his police scanner webcasts. But the charges must still be addressed. Tom has to provide Judge Gallipoli with the name of his attorney in less than 30 days. He could use a little legal assistance. Preferably pro bono. Tom Rowan isn't a rich man-- just one of those dogged Internet types who believe they have a right to lift local rocks. And to speak freely about what lies beneath.

Contact Tom Rowan at: Webmaster@NorthBergenPD.Com

Sources include:

Polaris Project: New Jersey State Profile, HumanTrafficking.com Report, 2003

Former North Bergen Township Administrator Sentenced to 36 Months for Corruption Conviction, 07/11/03, News Release, United States Department of Justice

Parks chief gets prison term for kickbacks, 02/03/04, Peter J. Sampson, Bergen Record

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Related Links
o NorthBerge nPD.Com
o Webmaster@ NorthBergenPD.Com
o Polaris Project: New Jersey State Profile, HumanTrafficking.com Report, 2003
o Former North Bergen Township Administrator Sentenced to 36 Months for Corruption Conviction,
o Parks chief gets prison term for kickbacks,
o Also by mondoqt


Display: Sort:
Homeland Security: North Bergen Style | 82 comments (74 topical, 8 editorial, 1 hidden)
Aqua Teen Hunger Force (1.00 / 27) (#1)
by suicidal ideation on Sun May 23, 2004 at 10:22:01 AM EST

... fucking rules.

"Repetitive guitar growing increasingly louder followed by pause." -- Trent Reznor
Legal Assistance (2.57 / 14) (#2)
by antizeus on Sun May 23, 2004 at 11:59:50 AM EST

EFF. ACLU. National Lawyers Guild.

The article doesn't seem to indicate whether any of these or similar groups were approached for help. Were they? If so, what did they say? If not, then why not?
-- $SIGNATURE

When? (none / 2) (#25)
by ShadowNode on Tue May 25, 2004 at 02:28:42 AM EST

May 6th was a Thursday, the 10th a Monday. That gave him only one business day (Friday the 7th), to get legal assistance.

[ Parent ]
I emailed him to go to EFF & ACLU (none / 0) (#82)
by twestgard on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 12:32:26 PM EST

Didn't think of NLG.

Thomas Westgard
Illinois Mechanics Liens
[ Parent ]

Wow. (2.81 / 22) (#6)
by Kasreyn on Sun May 23, 2004 at 02:55:15 PM EST

I didn't know this country had any judges left who were that rational, not to mention informed about net issues and having common sense (ie., the fact that he asked whether people couldn't already do the same thing by buying a scanner from RadioShack.

Hats off to Judge Gallipoli.


-Kasreyn


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
Alot more quality judges at the local/state level (none / 3) (#7)
by duffbeer703 on Sun May 23, 2004 at 09:27:21 PM EST

Once people get involved with the Federal judiciary, justice becomes a much lower priority next to ideological purity. (Witness the socialist 9th Federal Circuit or the reactionary Circuits in the South)

Of course, there are plenty of shitty state judges, like the NYS Surrogate's Court in Brooklyn, which treats probate property as a piggybank for Democratic functionaries.

[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 2) (#23)
by QuantumG on Mon May 24, 2004 at 11:32:00 PM EST

I have no idea what that means.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
I don't buy it (2.75 / 4) (#45)
by kmcrober on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:29:34 PM EST

"Socialist 9th Federal Circuit" is where I stopped taking that comment seriously.  Blah blah blah, liberal activist socialist communist judges on the 9th Circuit pushing atheism and materialism and making baby Jesus cry...  I realize that's not exactly what you're saying, that you're just pointing out a common perception, but it's way too common, and not even remotely true.  The 9th Circuit has some of the highest profile conservative judges in the country, like Kleinfeld and Kozynksi.  It may trend a little bit left politically, but much less so than conservative pundits pretend.  

(On the same wavelength, I'm tempted to agree with you that the southern circuits, especially the fifth, are reactionary and way out of sync with basic standards of decency, justice, humanity, compassion, truth, and the American way, but I'm also prepared to admit that I might be a little bit biased.)

You make an interesting point about state judges.  I have no idea what you're talking about with NY judges; my experience is all in Texas.  But I've seen some quality judges in the state system, even in lower levels.  Ironically, I think the quality and, more importantly, independence of state judges becomes very shaky when they're elected.  Witness (and here, again, I might be a little bit biased) Justice Owen on the Texas Supreme Court, who got blasted by the Senate Dems.  Politics aside, the woman is just a shitty judge - her opinions take forever, she's extremely activist (in the bad way), and generally not well regarded by the bar.  But she's a good politician, and a solid ideologue, and that can substitute for being a good judge with the right electorate.

On the other hand, I know more than a few people who swear that electing judges is critical for various communitarian reasons - accountability and the like.  I'm unpersuaded, but I guess it's an open question.

[ Parent ]

Contrary to popular belief (3.00 / 8) (#8)
by Skywise on Mon May 24, 2004 at 12:19:36 AM EST

There really are alot of good judges in the US.  Unfortunately, "judge shopping" (Manuevering a case to be heard by a sympathetic judge) has become a high art in legal circles...


[ Parent ]
what a shite site (1.06 / 16) (#9)
by dimaq on Mon May 24, 2004 at 04:58:39 AM EST



I was going to say that... (2.80 / 5) (#12)
by Milo Minderbender on Mon May 24, 2004 at 08:03:25 AM EST

...just with a little more tact (and less rhyme). It certainly is a threat to Homeland Web Design. Ugh...

--------------------
This comment is for the good of the syndicate.
[ Parent ]
Wouldn't know about that (none / 2) (#21)
by squigly on Mon May 24, 2004 at 02:31:10 PM EST

I had a look, looked at the terms and conditions, and decided that I didn't agree to them.

And I tend to be put off by stupid java applets.

[ Parent ]

What are "machine cities"? (2.40 / 5) (#10)
by nebbish on Mon May 24, 2004 at 05:35:35 AM EST

And how did you get a new K5 account?

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

Machine cities defined (2.92 / 13) (#11)
by Conspir8or on Mon May 24, 2004 at 06:51:26 AM EST

A "machine city" is one under the influence of a political machine. This, in turn, is the situation in which a single political party has a monopoly on the distribution of political-patronage jobs, disbursement of funds legally and illegally, issuance of contracting work, ballot stuffing to ensure its own perpetuation, and, in some cases, the benign neglect of organized crime. The classic example of a political machine was Tammany Hall, which was the Democratic gang of cronies that controlled New York City for the bulk of the 18th Century, most colorfully by William "Boss" Tweed. In the 20th Century, Jersey City, close to North Bergen as the crow flies, was under the thumb of Frank Hague's political machine for decades.

[ Parent ]
Albany, NY (2.60 / 5) (#19)
by duffbeer703 on Mon May 24, 2004 at 10:47:11 AM EST

Defined machine politics, and is/was the last real, old-school political machines. Its Mayor was in office from 1939 until 1981. (Minus 18 months when he was drafted)

Read "Mayor Corning" by Paul Grondal.

[ Parent ]

Albany's machine (none / 3) (#52)
by mondoqt on Tue May 25, 2004 at 09:45:04 PM EST

The Corning mayoral rule in Albany, New York was the longest in U.S. history. But Mayor Frank "I am the law" Hague in Jersey City was up there with the best/worst. I'm familar with both cities. Though the players may have changed, machine traditions and habits of thought still cloud their air. And prove tough to disperse.

Carola Von Hoffmannstahl-Solomonoff
[ Parent ]

As to the new account... (none / 3) (#51)
by RobotSlave on Tue May 25, 2004 at 09:24:28 PM EST

...rusty can still create new accounts.

[ Parent ]
Am I missing something? (none / 0) (#59)
by alby on Wed May 26, 2004 at 05:46:39 PM EST

As far as I can see mondoqt is uid:53906. According to this story I thought the last uid was 54418. Am I missing something?

--
Alby
[ Parent ]

Yes. (none / 1) (#67)
by RobotSlave on Thu May 27, 2004 at 05:12:04 AM EST

It will require a bit of thought, but I'm sure you'll get there eventually.

Bon voyage.

[ Parent ]

get lost, patriotic guy (1.00 / 19) (#15)
by dimaq on Mon May 24, 2004 at 10:15:19 AM EST



-1, Patriotism = Brainwashing <nt> (1.00 / 16) (#18)
by trezor on Mon May 24, 2004 at 10:27:08 AM EST


--
Richard Dean Anderson porn? - Now spread the news

about your sig (1.85 / 7) (#22)
by SocratesGhost on Mon May 24, 2004 at 03:50:09 PM EST

I'm sure you would have no problem saying that if the "they" in question were christian fundamentalists who hate you because you are pro-choice.

-Soc
I drank what?


[ Parent ]
wow... (2.37 / 8) (#24)
by expostfacto on Tue May 25, 2004 at 12:08:38 AM EST

that guy needs a web designer worse than he needs a lawyer. hell, he should just sign up with blogger or something instead.
--
Carnage Blender: over 50 million battles served
Hudson Courty is rife with bogus cops. (2.61 / 13) (#26)
by molo on Tue May 25, 2004 at 02:54:35 AM EST

I used to live in Bergen County and would frequently make trips into Hudson County to Hoboken and Jersey City.  Friends of mine have had plenty of run-ins with unethical cops (I won't call them corrupt, because I don't have any knowledge of that kind of incident).

One interesting story is about a friend of mine that knows some people in the FBI.  He kept a white-on-black "FBI" issued baseball cap on the rear deck of his car.  Usually it was enough to keep people (and cops) from bothering him.

This friend was in stop-and-go traffic on one of the local highways, and a cop tried to edge into his lane without using a turn signal.  The cop was not responding to an emergency or showed any indication of making a traffic stop (no strobe lights).  So, he didn't let the cop in, and he's not legally required to yield to an officer outside of emergency situations or making a traffic stop.

So then the cop pulls in back of him and presumably runs his plates.  Then he is pulled over and the cop comes up to the window and says, "Where'd you get that hat?"

"I don't understand officer, what traffic law was I violating?"

"Where did you get the cap in your back window?"

"What traffic law was I violating?"

"Why don't you just tell me whats the deal with the cap in your back window?"

My friend, knowing that any licensed driver in New Jersey can write a traffic summons against any other driver or vehicle, "I have a better idea.  Why don't you give me your ticket book, and I'll write you a ticket for improper lane changes.  When we go to court over it, you will then plead guilty."

The cop, smugly, "Now why would I do that?"

At that point, my friend pulled out the tape recorder in his pocket and clicked "stop".

The cop, knowing that he would get into a heap of trouble over an illegal traffic stop, gave him the ticket book and plead guilty in front of a judge.

As a result, my friend is somewhat blacklisted ans is pulled over very very frequently on his visits to Hudson County today.  They always find bogus reasons to pull him over, but he has been overly cautious and nothing has yet stuck.

The moral of the story?  When dealing with shady cops, make sure you know the law.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn

This story is pure BS (1.57 / 7) (#27)
by StephenThompson on Tue May 25, 2004 at 04:31:40 AM EST

Besides being completely ridiculous, this story has a glaring flaw: making a recording of a conversation without prior consent is against federal law. The tape would be inadmissable in court.

[ Parent ]
recording conversations (3.00 / 10) (#28)
by bryaninnh on Tue May 25, 2004 at 05:16:47 AM EST

recording a conversation in all but 12 states ( NJ is not one of those ) is legal as long as you are a party to that conversation ( which the driver was ), and at least one party to the conversation consents to it ( which the driver did did, by turning on his tape recorder ).

[ Parent ]
Wiretap only? (none / 3) (#41)
by mindstrm on Tue May 25, 2004 at 05:43:38 PM EST

Doesn't that only apply to wiretap laws? ie: Phone conversations?

A real-life in-person conversation does not fall into that category, and wiretap laws do not apply.

[ Parent ]

no (none / 3) (#46)
by bryaninnh on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:31:45 PM EST

this includes phone conversations, and in person conversations, and all conversations basically. a wiretap involves someone who is not a party to the conversation recording it, hence it is covered under other laws, this one states that the consenting party has to be a party to the conversation. this would apply for example if you were getting a divorce say, and you recorded things your wife said either on the phone or in person, or if you recorded a cop during a traffic stop, etc...

[ Parent ]
Not a wiretap (none / 3) (#49)
by kmcrober on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:36:43 PM EST

But it doesn't matter.  Recording a RL conversation is (generally) not a problem if, as was mentioned, at least one party consents.  You're right that that's the basic standard for wire recordings, though.  

IIRC, it's a basic expectation of privacy issue.  The cop, speaking to someone else in a public place, had no expectation of privacy.  Note that the driver might have had an expectation, being as he was sitting in his own car, but that would depend very much on local laws.  In any event, the parent post correctly notes that the driver implicitly consents by recording the conversation himself.

[ Parent ]

No (2.75 / 4) (#50)
by FattMattP on Tue May 25, 2004 at 08:52:42 PM EST

Doesn't that only apply to wiretap laws? ie: Phone conversations?
No, at least not in Georgia.

[ Parent ]
Incorrect. (3.00 / 5) (#31)
by porkchop_d_clown on Tue May 25, 2004 at 08:43:56 AM EST

First, it's not a wiretap if at least one party knows about the recording. Second, it's not a federal case, so federal law doesn't apply.

Third, as Bryan pointed out, state laws vary from place to place.

Now where did I put that clue? I know I had one just a minute ago!
[ Parent ]

don't think so. (none / 2) (#39)
by molo on Tue May 25, 2004 at 03:33:08 PM EST

A second friend of mine was present in court with him and corroborated the story.  I wasn't there to personally vouch for it.. but everything I know checks out.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

He did have consent (none / 1) (#57)
by ShadowNode on Wed May 26, 2004 at 12:16:36 PM EST

You only need consent from one party to the conversation, so you're well within your rights to record any conversation you're in.

[ Parent ]
Wrong! (none / 2) (#60)
by DDS3 on Wed May 26, 2004 at 06:38:20 PM EST

making a recording of a conversation without prior consent is against federal law.

There is not a federal law such as you represent.  In many states, it's legal as long as one party is aware of it.  Therefore, it clearly can not be a federal law as it would trump state law.  Furthermore, they were in public, therefore, no resonable right to privacy existed.  I think it's safe to say, you're not an attorney nor do you play one on Kuro5hin.

Such laws are determined on a state by state basis.  Here in Texas, that law saved my brother's butt.  He would be in jail if it were not for the recording he had of his ex-wife.  The darling women was just about to get 100% of their belongings in their divorce, not to mention, attempting to have him throw in jail for spousal abuse; having created her own bruises on her arms.  She had already gotten a restraining order against him preventing him from coming home to his own friggen home.  Thankfully, my brother made a recording of her, two weeks before the court date, where she admitted it was all a lie and that she was going to do everything she could to torchure him.  My brother really was the victim here.  My brother thought he was husband number 3.  In the proceedings, it came out that he was #7 or #8, I forget which; she left my brother for the man that she was cheating on him with, then ran out of country to marry him.  Needless to say, she's an evil lying women that manipulates, lies and spreads her legs for anybody that can help her get the things that she wants.  Needless say, it's a great law and is very helpful.

My brother is one of many people that have been saved by this law.  Any state which requires both parties to be aware that they are being recorded, should be considered suspect at best because they clearly fear having their communications made public.  That should make anyone scared.


[ Parent ]

May be legal, but... (none / 0) (#74)
by ambisinistral on Fri May 28, 2004 at 03:16:15 PM EST

Is it admissable in court?



[ Parent ]
yes... (none / 0) (#81)
by DDS3 on Thu Jun 03, 2004 at 10:29:59 AM EST

...it's legal in court...we'll, I should say, as far as I know. It may vary from state to state but here, it's very much legal. I can't imagine a legally made recording not being allowed in court simply because it's a legally made recording. Sounds obtuse, I know, but that's my point.

[ Parent ]
Way, way wrong (none / 0) (#62)
by Safety Cap on Wed May 26, 2004 at 11:57:04 PM EST

Perfect example: cab driver stops at red light, but front of cap "touches" the line. Cop pulls over cap driver and starts yelling obscenities and threatening him. Scared, confused cabbie records conversation using cell phone. Recordings play on evening news. Hilarity ensues.

[ Parent ]
The moral? (1.75 / 4) (#32)
by fridgemagnet on Tue May 25, 2004 at 09:23:31 AM EST

Of course, if he hadn't done all that he wouldn't be blacklisted.

---
"bugler of incongruity"


[ Parent ]
Pick your battles (3.00 / 5) (#35)
by Anonymous Hiro on Tue May 25, 2004 at 11:43:27 AM EST

May have been worth it for your friend, but I wouldn't have bothered aggravating that particular cop. Yeah maybe it's fun taking a moderately arrogant cop down a peg or two, but aren't there better battles to fight?

Sure it's sloppy and impolite driving. Big deal - get that all the time with tons of other people. Heck, sometimes I'm the one being sloppy.

I wouldn't even consider that cop shady, if it's only that incident. Not the best of cops, but so what? He might even be one of the better cops if the PD in that area really sucks... I mean he didn't rough up your friend or worse.


[ Parent ]

Its the illegal traffic stop.. (none / 2) (#38)
by molo on Tue May 25, 2004 at 03:28:54 PM EST

The lang change thing was not a big deal.  Once he made an illegal traffic stop, thats another matter.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

Illegal stop? (2.00 / 4) (#42)
by squigly on Tue May 25, 2004 at 05:56:47 PM EST

Didn't the police officer have reasonable suspicion that the guy may be impersonating a police officer?   Hardly seems excessive to stop him and ask him about it.  

And while we're at it, what was on the tape that made him confess to a minor misdemeanor?  Even two witnesses aren't likely to convince a judge.

[ Parent ]

Impersonating? (3.00 / 4) (#43)
by molo on Tue May 25, 2004 at 06:42:28 PM EST

Having a FBI hat is no more impersonating an officer than all of the post-9/11 people wearing NYPD hats & T-shirts.  Don't be silly.

As for the tape, I never got any more details than what I posted before.

Reportedly, the judge was very confused why the officer was pleading guilty to a traffic violation, but accepted his plea.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

Once he got to the drivers side door (none / 0) (#63)
by richarj on Thu May 27, 2004 at 12:11:23 AM EST

He would have realised that the guy was not impersonating a police officer nor a FBI officer. Besides what if he really was a FBI agent? Why pull him up? Maybe he just dropped his FBI friend off at home and had left his cap in the back of the car. Having part of a police uniform in your car is not a crime. The cop only did it out of spite at not being allowed to make an illegal traffic maneuver. Then tried to use the cap as an excuse for pulling him over.

"if you are uncool, don't worry, K5 is still the place for you!" -- rusty
[ Parent ]
He was only asking. (none / 1) (#65)
by squigly on Thu May 27, 2004 at 04:30:56 AM EST

Maybe he just dropped his FBI friend off at home and had left his cap in the back of the car.

Perhaps.  Which is why he asked "Where did you get the hat".  

Having part of a police uniform in your car is not a crime.

Indeed it is not.  But it may make someone suspicious that they may have it there for nefarious purposes.  

The cop only did it out of spite at not being allowed to make an illegal traffic maneuver. Then tried to use the cap as an excuse for pulling him over.

Or maybe he was genuinely concerned that the guy was pretending to be an FBI agent.

[ Parent ]

Then he should have said so (none / 0) (#80)
by richarj on Mon May 31, 2004 at 01:05:34 AM EST



"if you are uncool, don't worry, K5 is still the place for you!" -- rusty
[ Parent ]
Where I come from ... (2.50 / 4) (#37)
by Stavr0 on Tue May 25, 2004 at 03:03:01 PM EST

your friend would've "fallen" on the officer's night stick while "resisting arrest" -- if you catch my drift.

And that tape recorder? "Damaged" when the suspect "resisted arrest".
- - -
Pax Americana : Oderint Dum Metuant
[ Parent ]

where is that? /nt (none / 1) (#40)
by Battle Troll on Tue May 25, 2004 at 04:32:10 PM EST


--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
I'll bite ... (none / 1) (#58)
by Stavr0 on Wed May 26, 2004 at 02:00:46 PM EST

Montreal Mirror article on QPF brutality
Collective Opposed to Police Brutality Vancouver chapter
- - -
Pax Americana : Oderint Dum Metuant
[ Parent ]
gosh, is it that bad in Montreal? (none / 1) (#69)
by Battle Troll on Thu May 27, 2004 at 07:24:32 PM EST

I'm from Canada but never had a problem with the police. It's a shame that there's that kind of violence on the part of police in Canada, considering how much less violent crime we have than the USA. (Having been the beneficiary of a forceful police intervention when two bums were trying to shake me down in Rochester, NY, I'm mindful of the police being obligated to use violent means with violent criminals.)

No matter how violent that guy in Montreal was, whenever even a single man dies in custody, that's a profoundly serious thing. The other side of the coin is that there's a big difference between the police beating you up for lipping them off and their beating you up after you've violently attacked them. The second, though regrettable, is less obviously illegitimate.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]

I hope you learned your lesson.. (none / 0) (#70)
by molo on Fri May 28, 2004 at 02:18:01 AM EST

NEVER GO TO ROCHESTER.

Bah, what a waste of land.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

it's worse, I live there (none / 0) (#73)
by Battle Troll on Fri May 28, 2004 at 11:58:10 AM EST

The university is an international leader in my field.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
UofR (none / 0) (#76)
by molo on Sat May 29, 2004 at 12:58:45 AM EST

UofR actually has some interesting research going on, and the Eastman school of music is good too.  I put my time in at RIT however.  It could have been better, but I graduated and made it out.  Good luck while you are there.  Don't let any of the local companies rope you in.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

good to know (none / 0) (#77)
by Battle Troll on Sat May 29, 2004 at 04:36:09 PM EST

What were you studying at RIT?
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
Computer Science (none / 0) (#78)
by molo on Sat May 29, 2004 at 05:11:59 PM EST

The Computer Science program is not bad as far as undergraduate studies go.  There's not much research to speak of, and the postgraduate programs are weak.  The courses could have been more rigorous, but it also could have been a lot worse.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

nod (none / 0) (#79)
by Battle Troll on Sun May 30, 2004 at 08:45:44 AM EST

I would assume that undergrad CS is a totally different world from graduate CS.

A friend of my wife's is a CS TA at Cornell. He said the students are not untalented, but they are prodigious slackers and know much less, but in general and about CS, than they ought to. I would imagine that a lot of third-rate academics get their start in environments like that.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]

Like a traffic citizen's arrest? (2.75 / 4) (#47)
by kmcrober on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:32:46 PM EST

It blows my mind that any driver can issue a summons against another driver.  How does that work?

[ Parent ]
A summons is just a misdemeanor complaint (3.00 / 5) (#53)
by molo on Wed May 26, 2004 at 12:17:51 AM EST

Anyone can issue a misdemeanor complaint.  You have to back up your observation in court of course.  But if you observe that someone broke a traffic law, you can do down to the police station and request a summons, filling out a traffic ticket with the information you have (license plate number, make, model & color of car usually).  Sign the ticket and give your name and its all done.  They look up the owner and send them a summons.

Most people don't know about it, so its rarely abused.  There is potential for abuse if people fill them out willy-nilly.  I'm sure a judge would issue an order against honoring someone's complaints if it were to become an issue.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

If you're in a two-party consent-to-record state.. (none / 0) (#75)
by Maserati on Fri May 28, 2004 at 10:37:04 PM EST

Dial 911. Have your attorney subpoena the recording In at least Florida, 911 recordings are public documents and may be obtained upon proper request.

Hilarity should ensue.

Be sure to mute the speaker so the hypothetical officer harassing you doesn't hear the 911 operator trying to talk to you.

Be very sure not to get yourself shot when you reach for the cellphone.

--

For the wise a hint, for the fool a stick.
[ Parent ]

Great to hear.. (2.25 / 4) (#29)
by miker2 on Tue May 25, 2004 at 08:25:34 AM EST

That a place I used to live in (Liberty Ave, N. Bergen), and was very glad to leave, is getting straightened out.

Nice attempt to villify North Bergen PD (none / 3) (#30)
by squigly on Tue May 25, 2004 at 08:25:44 AM EST

How surprising.  The police don't like people listening in on their conversations.  Who'd a thunk it.  As it turns out, this is in fact legal, and so far the court has ruled in his favour.  

And just to rub it in, you post links to demonstrate that apparently the county is punishing corrupt police.

I agree that there are a few procedural things that just don't seem right.  Shouldn't papers be server to the actual person?  Presumably this failing could have been used to delay the hearing.  

I don't understand (1.50 / 4) (#33)
by tetsuwan on Tue May 25, 2004 at 09:47:33 AM EST

Isn't Bergen a major Norwegian city?

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance

Second only to Oslo (none / 1) (#36)
by bojwolb on Tue May 25, 2004 at 02:44:54 PM EST

Nothing hard to understand about it, though. Same deal as York, I'd wager.

[ Parent ]
bergen county, new jersey (none / 1) (#44)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:28:23 PM EST

northeastern new jersey

mostly rich bedpost towns to new york city, new york

a seedier southern side nearer to the george washington bridge

in the usa, especially the northeast, you will find a lot of place names with european antecedents, for obvious historical reasons

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

BTW, North Bergen is in Hudson county. (none / 2) (#54)
by molo on Wed May 26, 2004 at 12:29:00 AM EST

BTW, North Bergen is in Hudson county, on the Bergen County border.  I don't get it, but hey, whatever.

BTW, also, the seedier side is actually well south of the GWB.  Think Hackensack, Lodi, Rutherford, etc.  Closer to the GWB you have towns like Fort Lee and Englewood, not very seedy at all.

-molo

--
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that: "There, but for the grace of God, go I." -- Harley Hahn
[ Parent ]

Sure confused me (none / 1) (#56)
by grahamsz on Wed May 26, 2004 at 02:47:05 AM EST

I've spend all of 20 minutes in norway and slightly longer in new york.. but i automatically assumed Bergen to be in norway.

I realize it's commonplace in the US to take town names from europe, but unless the US version is vastly more famous than it's predecessor then surely you should make it clear.
--
Sell your digital photos - I've made enough to buy a taco today
[ Parent ]

Hey, (none / 0) (#66)
by tetsuwan on Thu May 27, 2004 at 04:45:02 AM EST

I wasn't fishing for comments. This was just a bored way of telling that I didn't find the inspiration to read the article and thought it was too US centric. I know that many names of cities in the USA origin from Europe.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Silly (none / 0) (#68)
by MyrddinE on Thu May 27, 2004 at 06:06:42 PM EST

This comment would be valid if the article had been less explicit. In the second and third sentences of the article, you are told exactly where North Bergen is: North Bergen, where Tom lives and where he once served as a cop, is part of Hudson County, New Jersey. Hudson County is right across the river from lower Manhattan. Though it does not say 'Hudson County, New Jersey, US', I see no ambiguity or locality assumtions here to ridicule.

[ Parent ]
I know (none / 0) (#71)
by tetsuwan on Fri May 28, 2004 at 06:45:40 AM EST

It was a bored troll. I expected low ratings and no comments.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

what is wrong with you! (1.50 / 6) (#48)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 25, 2004 at 07:33:14 PM EST

don't bitch about this local travesty on kuro5hin of all places!

write a book, option it to hollywood, adapt it to a screenplay, let it sit on a pile for a few years, have the rock/ julia roberts play the role of the virtuous small town sheriff/ hard working legal assistant who uses her boobs to get the job done, and watch the cash flow in!

duh!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

What a moron (2.50 / 8) (#55)
by onallama on Wed May 26, 2004 at 01:08:53 AM EST

Considering that his "terms of service" forbid (among many other things) deep linking to any page on the site, even the home page, why should I care about anything this idiot puts on the Web? He obviously doesn't understand it...

I assumed he was being sarcastic (none / 0) (#64)
by enterfornone on Thu May 27, 2004 at 03:35:45 AM EST

Given the legal trouble he's been in, I assumed that his terms of service were meant as a parody of the pages of legal bullshit some corporate sites have. I can't imagine anyone objecting to linking to the home page and it's pretty obviously impossible to deep link to a home page.

Tho he might just be getting his terms mixed up and be referring to framing the home page. People who don't understand web jargon are still allowed to have web pages.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]

NorthBergenPD.Com (none / 0) (#72)
by Steeltoe on Fri May 28, 2004 at 07:26:49 AM EST

Not only that, but registering a site named NorthBergenPD.Com is asking for trouble. The author of this article seems awfully biased when saying it should not break any trademark laws.

NorthBergenPD.Com could very well stand for the Police Department of NorthBergen.

Explore the Art of Living

[ Parent ]

whine whine terrorists whine (1.60 / 10) (#61)
by gordonjcp on Wed May 26, 2004 at 07:46:33 PM EST

Fuck you. You can dish it out but you can't take it. The rest of the world has had to put up with the US Government supporting terrorism for years - look at the IRA or the Israelis - and now you're whining because someone hit you back? For fuck's sake, grow a pair.

Didn't all this Christian stuff your exhalted leader is constantly pushing sink in at least a little? Turn the other cheek, that's what you're supposed to do.

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll bore you rigid with fishing stories for the rest of your life.


Homeland Security: North Bergen Style | 82 comments (74 topical, 8 editorial, 1 hidden)
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