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[P]
Kuro5hin Naval Gazing: Why $5 is Bad

By GhostOfTiber in Internet
Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 11:04:00 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin, Rusty, Naval Gazing, Identity (all tags)

Kuro5hin works as a discussion and debate forum because it has identity.

Identity in this case means that users have a name, and they have a password, and they have optional information they can fill out about themselves. Usernames leave a visible trail - anyone can click and see what stories someone has posted and what comments they have made.

Unfortunately, Rusty's $5 for new registration has changed some of the fundamentals of K5, and I personally don't feel it's working.


I'm going to apologize in advance for making generalizations. As with most K5 stories, the discussion is just as much a part of it as the content presented in the body. You're welcome to make topical comments as per usual.

There's basically two types of users on K5: People who submit things to the queue and people who don't submit things to the queue. The diary section might as well be the queue for all intents and purposes. From the 10,000 ft view, the queue has a fairly low barrier for entry - Something merely needs to spawn intelligent discussion and it passes. Similarly if an article has a high density of information by itself, it also passes through. This is the people-element to how Kuro5hin works. There's really no rhyme or reason to how it works, people either decide it's interesting or they decide that it's "not enough" and dump it. Successful queue stories generally build on the discussion threads in K5 and follow the meme of the moment.

I think we can all agree that stories, or diaries, are the heart and soul of Kuro5hin. This means the users themselves are the heart and soul of Kuro5hin. New users now require a $5 buy-in. Does this price match the community? Not really.

The Kuro5hin community enjoys a soft-identity format. A hard identity format for the purposes of discussion would be something like Facebook. Facebook requires users to fill out information about themselves and create an account. A non-identity format would be like 4chan - no-one has any history and no-one needs a username. K5's soft-identity format merely establishes the minimum requirements to have some kind of discussion. Usernames are unique, comment histories are visible, and you can generally track a users discussion history and your own. Where the five-dollar-fallacy comes into play is that K5 used to be soft-identity to the point where identity itself wasn't important. The discussions were important, but users could (and would) make multiple accounts, swap usernames, and generally do what they wanted. Kuro5hin wasn't about the users behind the usernames, it was about the discussion. People, as far as K5 is concerned, don't matter. Usernames themselves only represent arguments, and the arguments are only represented as far as the account has history. Therefor we could distill usernames themselves from "circletimessquare" to "always contrary". Or "lildebbie" to "drug using republican". "Rusty" would be "absentee dad in vietnam". "Aphrael" would be "queer and bitter". Very few people on K5 have kept their usernames and those which have always will have the suspicion of giving the account away.

People who don't like K5 generally don't prefer this format. However when I write something, I realize the content I am posting isn't so much about a contribution in general to the internet (although certainly I have written stories as a manual) but Kuro5hin is more like the acid-test for an argument. I believe the community understands this as a general principal and makes decisions accordingly for articles which generate decent discussion. When writing for Kuro5hin, users must keep this in mind. Drug Using Republican is going to argue as such. Contrary To Silliness will too. The point here is to allow for a maximum of free speech. Could I write an article questioning the holocaust without it?

This is where communities strongly differ from K5. Slashdot doesn't let users post content in any public way. Digg is controlled by the invisible hand of vote-fixing via the admins. HuSi is so threatened by free speech that articles deemed as trolls are hidden and users are banned over the mere idea of considering something offensive to the community. On K5, the opposite is true. While we don't enjoy a brisk development pace, we do enjoy the other rights which come from having free speech with weak identity. This allows for crapflooding, page widening and other fun nonsense but this buys is the security of being able to make a new account for arguing the other side of a point.

Or we could, until Rusty put up the $5 barrier to entry. What the fee actually represents isn't to control the users themselves, but I think that was the intention. The fee represents a handle on ideas. The original format of Kuro5hin allowed multiple shades of argument to be presented by multiple accounts. It didn't particularly matter that those accounts may actually be the same person so long as they presented intelligent and reasoned arguments. While true that some accounts made simply for the lulz don't contribute anything intelligent or reasoned, humor itself has a value to society. Barack Obama, as a K5 account, is a street-wise hood-nigger. Abraham Lincoln would discuss things in the context of the civil war. John Daego was an account I made after Carl on Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Basically, poor white trash, a topic I'm both intimately familiar with and endlessly amused by being from rural Pennsylvania.

The five dollar barrier, however, means we've traded these shades of ourselves for stronger identity, but the fundamentals of K5 have thus changed.

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Poll
$5
o It's only money in Rusty's pocket 39%
o It's an affront to the very nature of K5. 60%

Votes: 28
Results | Other Polls

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Kuro5hin Naval Gazing: Why $5 is Bad | 58 comments (46 topical, 12 editorial, 0 hidden)
RGB / 000000 -- FFFFFF (3.00 / 2) (#3)
by infernalmajesty on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 10:50:32 AM EST

You are stating the obvious at this point, but I like your presentation and interpretation of the soft identity we have hear, although I never did make use of it in that manner while it was freely available. An idea spectrum where user names are short hand for standard placement on the axis is a really cool idea. It's like using ForestGreen to denote #228B22. I think though that sort of thing necessitates truly recognizable names - you either need a small community with few names (lildebbie recognition level) or a society where the names of the well known are hijacked (Barak Obama which easily scales from small to large).

Society scales easily because users are interchangeable, community scales with difficulty because relationships and identity are not interchangeable. - anaesthetica

Referring back to Attacked from Within, complete anonymity serves best when you want maximum free speech. The weak identity we used to have erred toward anonymity, but as you point out, gave us the extra tool - shorthand, based on handle. So yes, now that tool is gone, and our shorthand has been cramped. Shame is, that if handles hadn't been given such emphasis, elevated importance, and instead perhaps even eliminated tags might have filled the gap more meaningfully. It's hard to programatically index lildebbie as "drug using republican" as a search spider. Meta information should really be defined as meta information.

I [...] hit submit [...,] repeating a rookie mistake. Oh well. - Kaki Nix Sain

Well, look at 4chan also (3.00 / 2) (#4)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 11:14:54 AM EST

it's the ultimate result of absolute free speech. Because everyone is anonymous, there can be no histories attached to the accounts. Because there's no need of history, threads expire even if they're not pushed off the back of the queue due to inactivity.

Unlike 4chan, however, you and me can have a reasonable discussion and be reasonably assured we're talking to a consistent instance of one another.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

4chan is the result of free speech combined with a (3.00 / 3) (#5)
by infernalmajesty on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 11:45:50 AM EST

complete disinterest in signal to noise ratio. The software I'm working on in my spare time allows people to register with an email address (which is never displayed) to allow them to maintain personal histories and anonymous relationships. I'm glad you brought up the reasonable discussion and assurance of who I'm talking to on a thread level. I might implement some kind of color coding scheme to enable that, but I'll have to think about how that works philosophically.

I [...] hit submit [...,] repeating a rookie mistake. Oh well. - Kaki Nix Sain
[ Parent ]
You could do that (3.00 / 2) (#6)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 11:49:23 AM EST

but why not have people register an icon rather than a username?

Similar to 4chan's "top left corner" format, but more anonymous than K5's username format. People could be ShaggyCat.jpg and an MD5 sum would prevent duplicates. Similar to K5 however, an MD5 sum wouldn't prevent "close enough" spellings or images.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

Unfortunately that would have the same (3.00 / 3) (#7)
by infernalmajesty on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 12:02:15 PM EST

disadvantage as a user name. I'm not interested in the user showing the world anything but their ideas. I don't want you to have that global shorthand available to you in the first place. If I can allow you to be followed through a thread easily that seems reasonable - it does enable the conversation after all.

I [...] hit submit [...,] repeating a rookie mistake. Oh well. - Kaki Nix Sain
[ Parent ]
Nitpick: /b/ is the result of free speech and a (none / 1) (#50)
by anaesthetica on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 09:15:29 AM EST

complete disinterest in signal to noise ratio. The other 4chan boards have a much better signal to noise ratio. /r9k/ was created with the explicit purpose of improving the signal to noise ratio by eliminating un-original posting, and that board works quite well as a discussion forum.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
Well, you got some things right. (3.00 / 3) (#14)
by greengrass on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 08:13:48 PM EST

But no one will ever be able to have a reasonable discussion with you, sorry.

[ Parent ]
Sorry I can't post CP (none / 1) (#15)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 08:45:51 PM EST

I'm not sure your kind of discussion is legal.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

I think you just want the barrier lifted so you (3.00 / 7) (#8)
by tdillo on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 02:11:12 PM EST

can post links to your FP story in various forums and reap the lulz from the comments generated, ala' 'Fuck Natalee Holloway'.

Personally I think the 5, 5 dollah, 5 dollah footlong barrier accomplished whatever it was Rusty was trying to accomplish with it. The output around here from my subjective viewpoint got a bit better for a short while.

Now not so much, there isn't much difference in the diary section from one day to the next so I would agree that maybe it should be lifted for a bit.

Metafilter use to have NO sign-ups except these weird middle of the night sign-ups. It made MeFi like an exclusive club but also allowed new blood in from time to time and people that joined really wanted to join.

That might work here I really don't know, it may already be too late.

I'm not even sure that Rusty would even change anything now, he seems to like it pretty well as it is.

I do disagree that it is the discussion that drives the site. It is the articles, whether posted to the diary or the FP that bring in the crowds and then they just do what people do.

The Discussion is the gravy. I like gravy but I like some meat & potatoes to put it on.

Unfortunately, I am not able to 'put my money where my mouth is' because I know I'm just not talented enough to put anything worth a shit in the queue. Hell my diaries only get maybe 2-4 comments.

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.


oh? (none / 1) (#9)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 02:49:27 PM EST

I do disagree that it is the discussion that drives the site. It is the articles, whether posted to the diary or the FP that bring in the crowds and then they just do what people do.

If not discuss than what do the crowds do?

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

You misunderstand, (3.00 / 3) (#10)
by tdillo on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 03:15:18 PM EST

the crowds do discuss but its not the DRIVER.

I mean look at YouTube, they discuss the shit out of stuff but I don't read that shit cause that's all it is, shit in the form of noise. I ain't visiting YouTube for the scintillating conversation. Same with Fark, or Digg, whatever.

It was your ARTICLE that got me to comment in the first place and now we are discussing. Which is cool. But I didn't come here with the purpose to have a discussion with you or anybody. That just happened.

Fact of business I came with some half-assed idea for a diary I was going to write but then I got distracted. (Probably for the best)

I realize there are people that do want to just discuss things and they seem to rarely even read or skim the article they are discussing. Seems they just skim the headline and jump right in. I just don't think that is the majority. (I'm not trying to imply that you are one of these types either GoT, just saying I have observed these types elsewhere.)

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.


[ Parent ]
People vote on headlines too (3.00 / 2) (#13)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 03:54:31 PM EST

I find that irritating as hell.

But seriously, if you're going to argue people jump in without looking at the content, then you are accepting the idea that the content doesn't matter - people will argue anyway. On K5 there's plenty of argument for the sake of argument.

Like here, with us.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

READ, dumbass (3.00 / 5) (#28)
by loteck on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:28:13 PM EST

you have been taken over by the notion that the comments are what have value on this site. that is only true recently. used to be the comment threads were a distant second, mostly existing to either troll or jerkoff the author.

that was when we used to jettison bullshit from the queue with extreme prejudice and where if someone submitted a damn fine story that needed editing, and they didn't edit it, we dumped it.

the point of it all back then was quality writing, quality articles. if this site is supposedly all about the discussion and comments are king, then we sure as fuck don't need the long-winded and well researched essays and manifestos that we have had in the past.

but if that's the case, k5 is really pointless because there are infinitely better sites for summarized stories and endless comment threads. the k5 niche has always been in the story submission model, and as it moves further away from that it moves closer to irrelevancy in the vast pool of websites where constant updates and comment threads are the main content source.
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

[ Parent ]

No I haven't (none / 0) (#32)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 03:14:46 PM EST

I don't think you contribute anything of value whatsoever.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

lol "contributing to k5" (3.00 / 2) (#35)
by loteck on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 05:21:35 PM EST

surely you troll.
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

[ Parent ]
You're talking about reincarnation t1ber (none / 1) (#16)
by eavier on Mon Jun 15, 2009 at 10:07:45 PM EST

New blood, who in turn would bring new discussion, reinvigorating the site. Amirite?

For that to work, kuronia would need to mount some sort of awareness campaign to complement this relaxation of free account creation. But to make it work, Kuro5hin needs to introduce its unique selling point to draw new users in.

Now before I get advertising all over everyone, explain to me why we want new users here at all?

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

The unique selling point is (none / 1) (#21)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:28:20 AM EST

newfags can't triforce.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

"intelligent and reasoned arguments"? (none / 1) (#17)
by mirko on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 02:41:14 AM EST

Are we discussing the same site, here? I thought this was dedicated to global engoatsement? Come on: Kurons happen to sound intelligent and reasoned but we're not Slashdot: I personally value dissent and non-sense as it highlight the truth by contrastiong with it.
--
Finally I managed to make the decision that I would work on it. - MDC
we had to huddle together - trane
Slashdot is the worst of the worst (3.00 / 2) (#18)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 08:23:22 AM EST

OK it wins on volume, but it's very similar to dkos and husi where if you're not saying the right thing, you get modded down as a troll or flamebait.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

exactly. (none / 0) (#25)
by mirko on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:15:15 AM EST

I once stopped posting under my first name and started using a typical *.*troll nick as I was pissed off of being upmodded by morons.
--
Finally I managed to make the decision that I would work on it. - MDC
we had to huddle together - trane
[ Parent ]
+1FP, yacht reference /nt (3.00 / 3) (#20)
by ksandstr on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:00:45 AM EST



Fin.
lol first sentence - "Kuro5hin works" (3.00 / 4) (#22)
by mrbastard on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:48:49 AM EST


"ohmygod I have a boyfriend" - Wen Jian

What does this have to do with the Navy? (none / 0) (#23)
by Nimey on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:55:29 AM EST

LEARN TO SPELL FAILFUCK.
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

floating alone, on this liferaft (none / 0) (#30)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 03:13:03 PM EST

you and me, on the loveboat, as we look into each others eyes, and you request I please you anally as per my signature....

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

Good article, but disagree.... (3.00 / 5) (#29)
by k31 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 02:37:45 PM EST

It is a good article, in terms of being well thought out, but I disagree with it.

The $5 is not even the problem, following the logic of your article, if $5 allowed you to make a few (or many, maybe dozens) dupes, then all of a sudden, K5 would be "back good" again.

However, I think K5 had more intelligent articles in the past, because they was a need to a forum with a lot of well-thought out arguments... however, thee main things have happened:

  1. Old authors either left totally, or shifted priorities.

  2. Potential authors (i.e someone who was "thinking of writing about something") either abandoned the projects, because there is no reward, or published elsewhere (even privately).

  3. The smaller minority post here, still. Like you, looks at username for the first time. Occasionally, new people might also start up but I have no idea how fast, or even if, K5 is growing the userbase.

In general, we've become an "old boy's club"... I know that a lot of people wish it was "better", but since everyone has a different idea of what "better" is, it basically stays the same... much like any other large system with a lot of history.

This is still the "other site" to slashdot, and still a good place to have discussions, and I don't think the $5 to re-register (assuming you post nude hires of someone's wife or something, and get banned) isn't really an obstacle, and the ads are tasteful and not all-consuming.

So, anyhow, if Rusty wants to, he could let you pay another $5 to have a dozen alts, which would allow the multi-username fun but at a lower cost that $5 per dupe.

I think it's a good business plan, but I doubt it would be worth it... how many people really want dupes?

Your dollar is you only Word, the wrath of it your only fear. He who has an EAR to hear....

Not anymore (3.00 / 2) (#34)
by Nimey on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 04:57:23 PM EST

Now the "other site" to Slashdot is probably Digg or Reddit. K5 is irrelevant for the most part.
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

[ Parent ]
Might be the 'other site' to plastic.com (none / 0) (#52)
by fn0rd on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 02:22:53 PM EST

Or maybe not. Who the fuck cares.

This fatwa brought to you by the Agnostic Jihad
[ Parent ]

no evidence, all bullshit (2.33 / 3) (#37)
by totmacher on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 07:08:13 PM EST

file this under roll on the floor, you jew crybaby. it's not your site now is it? what're you gonna do about it?

-- I'll sum it up for yo: You = Douche bag ~ Butthurtapotamus
I'm going to complain (none / 1) (#40)
by GhostOfTiber on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 08:23:11 AM EST

and you're going to read it when it makes it out of the queue.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

far more importantly (3.00 / 3) (#38)
by N0574 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:53:38 AM EST

he should raise the post threshold back to 70 or so, to prevent crap like this from reaching the front page. That's what's really killing K5.

- NCCTG N0574 CANCER PROTOCOL
(3), would immediately kill K5 (3.00 / 5) (#41)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 09:46:19 AM EST

The front page would never change because most stories these days never even get 70 votes...


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
This has gotten 52 so far. (none / 1) (#42)
by GhostOfTiber on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 09:47:09 AM EST


[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

The last front page story had 40 total votes (3.00 / 2) (#43)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 11:08:59 AM EST

Most weekends, the only way you're getting to 70 votes is if someone votes with their entire dupe horde...


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
IAWTP (1.50 / 2) (#39)
by Wen Jian on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:04:08 AM EST

But also would like to point out that I just argued against both sides of the Great Dead J00 debate without compunction.
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
Coinsider the possibility (3.00 / 4) (#44)
by Harry B Otch on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 12:29:31 PM EST

This may be more of an internets-wide issue rather than one specific to k5; that is, it being 2009 and all, more of general population has a lot of web-surfing experience under its collective belt by now, and people simply aren't as hungry for the novelty of free-form discussion as they might have been in the early days of the World Wide Web.

Given the astounding amount of information one has access to online, there aren't going to be many stones left unturned for someone with a curious mind; after a while, you tend to gravitate towards the sites which consistently feature content that specifically interests you, and the k5 format, which might be described as "somewhat intelligent discussion on sundry topics mixed with high doses of profane trollery" only appeals to people with a certain kind of mindset (figurative and literal jocular intellectual masturbators)--a small, if somewhat over-represented minority on the internet.

Furthermore, when it's "community" that one truly seeks, that's pretty much been co-opted by the huge websites, with the proliferation of YouTube, MySpace, Twitter, etc.  So I somewhat disagree that Kuro5hin has become so much about personalities--as if there's anyone here I'd want to hang out with in real life (yecch)--but does indeed remain mostly about the appeal of its totally unregulated commentary.  If nothing else, there's a kind of literate spontaneity about it; call it the HORSECOCK factor.

------
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

See I feel as though K5 interests (none / 0) (#45)
by GhostOfTiber on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 01:14:55 PM EST

the set of people in a post-myspace way. At some point the UI gets in the way. Joe Myspace isn't going to have that thought, he's going to be unhappy with the fact that his google pagerank is shit and he's tired of all the flash weighing down his PC and how the content is virtually nil. If he's that kind of user, on the outside looking in, K5 might fit the bill. However this is more of a post-web2.0 place to hang out. I personally like it because of the comments, otherwise I would just hang out on my blog.

Admittedly it's got limited appeal, but that also means it's got to have low standards of entry so people who do want to join can.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

The last thing we need is false hope. (none / 0) (#46)
by Pentashagon on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 07:40:47 PM EST

Keep the $5 policy, or increase it outrageously.

I think there should be a fire sale (none / 1) (#48)
by Del Griffith on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 11:07:26 PM EST

you know $1 Tuesdays, or dupes on happy hour, 2 for 1!

There needs to be some ENERGY to the thing though.

I never see any advertisements in the marinas I go to.

Or for that matter, any of the fine monocle establishments when I need to get some polish for mine.

Also STICKERS AND TEESHIRTS... You know merchandising.  At the least some FUCK NATALIE HOLLOWAY SHIRTS.  Sure it was like 5 years ago, but it's vintage k5 ontop of the world!

-------
I...I like me. My wife likes me. My customers like me. Because I'm the real article. What you see is what you get. - Me


I'm bitterly disappointed (3.00 / 2) (#49)
by bml on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 06:34:51 AM EST

I thought this was going to be about ships, but it was a rant about user registration. I'm utterly disappointed, to say the least.

What this place needs is a good story about 17th century naval warfare, no the usual whining about Rusty's soft dictatorship.

Also, the text lacks a paragraph about how 5$ is a lot of money "in these difficult times".

Regards.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey

You've missed the point (3.00 / 4) (#51)
by anaesthetica on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 09:30:38 AM EST

You're 100% that the $5 pay wall is slowly killing k5. But k5 being a healthy vibrant site is not rusty's aim with the $5 wall. Rusty just doesn't want to have to deal with his user's shit anymore, playing never-ending whack-a-mole with dupe hordes.

In K5 Becomes "Gated Dysfunctional Community", quoth rusty foster:

The background of this is basically that dupe accounts had become fairly epidemic, and harassment and flooding a scripted sport here of late, and something had to change.

Re-allowing free account creation will surely give k5 a second wind, and make it more like the k5 that we once new and loved, but it will not solve the problem that rusty is interested in: being able to ignore k5 to the greatest extent possible. If dupes and scripting spammers/crapflooders have unlimited account creation access again, rusty would actually have to pay attention to k5, something he wants to avoid at all costs.

Until we can find a solution for dupe abuse, the 'soft identity' aspect of k5 that you liked is probably not ever going to return.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


Perl has entire modules (none / 1) (#54)
by GhostOfTiber on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 09:21:53 AM EST

dedicated to making random field names for forms and passing them around. Frankly the $5 thing is just an excuse for not updating scoop.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

unlimited accounts for those with an account (none / 0) (#57)
by sholden on Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 09:54:48 PM EST

So your five dollars (or each of your older freebie accounts) gets you as many names as you want.

But if any one of them gets banned/whatever they all are.

--
The world's dullest web page


[ Parent ]
That's not a terrible idea (none / 0) (#58)
by anaesthetica on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:21:20 PM EST

Kinda like AOL allowed up to five screen names on one account, back in the day.  Would solve the problem of abuse without getting rid of the $5 barrier and without preventing the soft identity feature.

Would probably require a significant patch to Scoop, so it probably won't get done.  But good thinking nonetheless.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
of course it's working (none / 1) (#53)
by manjal on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 05:23:53 PM EST

look at the lovely 'analysis' of the holocaust. +1 FP

as some guy in freenode #politics once said (none / 1) (#55)
by donnalee on Sun Jun 21, 2009 at 11:28:37 AM EST

among all the nonsense are bits of knowledge you might not have come across otherwise.

---
Guess I'll be adding this to tomorrow's comment dump!
The subscription has shrunk (none / 0) (#56)
by glimmung on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 04:01:00 AM EST

the user base which has lowered the overall quality and quantity of articles.

I check into K5 much, much less than I used to four years ago.

It seems that the diary ghetto, trolling and whatnot boosted the population here, made it seem more lively and attracted important contributors who liked the wild west atmosphere k5 had.

I'd much rather have entrenched troll culture, dupes and a lot of that noise if it also meant stories were of better quality and more common - and also if it meant that there was a larger voting base.  More voters will make the threshold for stories to hit front page harder to meet, which would be good for the site.

And all that troll noise was interesting, anyway.  It was funny and even interesting sociologically. I had a few valuable conversations with a friend of mine in his sixties about message board culture, specifically about what was going on here.  If I had encountered this site in 2009 instead of 2003 or whenever, I would never have bothered.

If Rusty lifts the subscription it would still take a few years, probably, to get k5 to something that we're envisioning.  It obviously won't be what it was.

Kuro5hin Naval Gazing: Why $5 is Bad | 58 comments (46 topical, 12 editorial, 0 hidden)
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