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collective art

By luap in Media
Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 09:27:27 AM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)

I've begun an experiment in my free time. I want to see if I can create an online artistic community with people posting their own works as well as commenting on others, sort of a method for writers/poets to get their word out and maybe even make money bypassing the publisher. Can it be done? Will the produced fiction/art be more/less real?

I haven't really seen the 'slashdot' for literature out there yet. Instead of using one of the OS solutions out there for community type sites, I've decided to program my own (php4 w/MySQL backend.)

I'll be honest with you, though, in that I'm an English/Journalism major, a poet at heart. I've been fascinated with the web since '95 or so, recently delving into scripting with PERL and php. (Creating art, but in another language, that of the computer.)

So... I guess I'm just looking for feedback on the concept and execution of open source literature. Thoughts/Suggestions/Comments appreciated...


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collective art | 19 comments (19 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
artist tip jar (2.85 / 7) (#1)
by wildmage on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 02:39:56 AM EST

Don't take this as spam or anything, but I'm sort of an artist advocate too. But I've taken a different approach to it. I've been involved with Fairtunes.com for about 2 months doing volunteer work. Its basically trying to give artists an alternative revenue source. We've been presenting ourselves to musicians mainly because that's the most controversial subject these days i.e. Napster.

We do have a few writers in our database who solicit donations through our service. You might consider using Fairtunes to help support those who contribute to your collaborative art. There's no fee or anything.

You asked for suggestions, and this is one way for your users to earn money.

Jacob Everist

Jacob Everist
Memoirs of a Mad Scientist
Near-Earth Asteroid Mining

Re: artist tip jar (1.50 / 2) (#2)
by gnuchris on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 09:45:01 AM EST

Hey great idea.... my poetry is like my Open Source work... I don't wanna ever plan on getting paid for my poems, I'd just be greatful if others read it and liked it
"He had alot to say, He had alot of nothing to say" -TOOL-
[ Parent ]
Re: artist tip jar (none / 0) (#18)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 07:11:48 PM EST

I am thinking about offering a means for writers/poets/artists to be able to accept donations easily. Might set up a system with someone like PayPal. Really not sure yet. Will see where the users of the site want to take it. --luap

[ Parent ]
Writing vs Art (2.66 / 3) (#3)
by sugarman on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 09:46:46 AM EST

The title kind of threw me for a second. My expectation of "art" ususally does not conicide with "writing and poetry".

Yes, I do realize that both literary writing and peotry are "arts", but I Ususally (Mentally?) make the distinction in conversation, and talk about "writing" seperately, whearas "art" ends up being "all physical crafts", and tends not to include music, drama, or film.

Anyhoo, the second question is why is this being posted to the front page, when this story just ran yesterday and is still on the front page? Not that I;m against the idea, but couldn't we tie the 2 stories together?

Re: Writing vs Art (2.00 / 1) (#5)
by bananafish on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 09:55:20 AM EST

Regarding tying the two stories together, I don't think it would really be appropriate, as they're really about two different things: collaborative art (made by multiple participants) and an art community (individual art available for comment & criticism). I don't think anyone would suggest mashing two Linux- or tech-related articles together simply due to a general topical similarity, and so I don't believe we should do it to art/cultural articles.

[ Parent ]
Re: Writing vs Art (none / 0) (#12)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 06:32:21 PM EST

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for backing me up on this. --luap

[ Parent ]
Re: Writing vs Art (none / 0) (#19)
by rongen on Fri Sep 29, 2000 at 07:59:13 PM EST

I'm Scott from Prosebush (one third of the creator/maintainer team along with Jon and Adam). Anyway, we are really doing a collaborative fiction site which is more focused on the act of writing (and, of course, reading) without the critical reading aspect, etc. For instance we don't do reader moderation, it's all done automatically using some algorithms we worked out.

While we would love it if people in our growing community would crank out another Ulysses, right now the writing is more fun, and we get a lot of tongue in cheek posts, and surreal stuff. Comedy is fun, and we love reading it! There is an definite core of serious writers, though, working on some fantasy stories that are really shaping up. As part creater of the site it really is very cool to see this happening and to be a part of it.

But back to your point that these posts (by luap, about an art community at mug and by me, about collaborative writing at Prosebush) are essentially the same article... Well they are and they are not. In the sense that both communities are centered around personally submitted work, they are. From the post about mug I had the sense that it was a place to post you completed or in-progress work and have it critiqued (which is a great idea) but there is also on-going collaborative stuff as well...

Basically, I agree with you that these posts are realtively similar... The communities differ a bit but in essence the posts pose the same questions. (I am not saying this is a bad thing but there IS an ongoing discussion already). This is not to slag luap at all, I am just agreeing...
read/write http://www.prosebush.com
[ Parent ]

I don't quite understand.... (2.33 / 3) (#4)
by TheLocust on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 09:47:13 AM EST

Will the produced fiction/art be more/less real?

How could it be more/less real? Of course it will be real.

What i suggest is that you take your time to get this planned out well, and then and ONLY then, starting coding.
.......o- thelocust -o.........
ignorant people speak of people
average people speak of events
great people speak of ideas

Re: I don't quite understand.... (none / 0) (#13)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 06:48:41 PM EST

I want it to be sort of organic, though. I don't want to force visitors to have to use a site I created 'my way'. i'd rather have input from others in the 'community' on how to proceed with an artistic community like this. I want it to grow and have features added as people (many people) discuss them... Community Art... --luap

[ Parent ]
Re: I don't quite understand.... (none / 0) (#17)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 07:09:34 PM EST

I guess I meant 'less real' in a sense that if something is posted on the web, does it hold the same weight as something printed on paper that climbs the NY Times booklist? I would consider it to be 'more real' than that work which makes it through the current editorial process (where a book is 'good' if it will sell a million copies and make the money back that it cost to print...) --luap

[ Parent ]
micromusic (2.50 / 2) (#6)
by fantastic-cat on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:09:40 AM EST

There's a UK site which does this kind of thing, it caters for a real minority music interest group but because of this it works really well (ok some of the scripting is a little dodgy) some of the artists who contribute put out records and have proper record deals (Cylob and 'Lektro Girl among others) the address is www.micromusic.net . I hope that this kind of community becomes a lot more popular as it offers a genuine alternative to the plastic music communities that the mp3 download sites are currently trying to foster.

As I mentioned I think the key to success here is specialisation, not trying to cater for all music tastes or all types of writing on one site. I would recomend thinking carefully about the audience/users of the site first and keeping it simple to start with then you can allways see how it grows and add in response to user needs.

Photography Community Online (3.00 / 1) (#7)
by threed on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:50:03 AM EST

I've seen at least one artwork community online, and its absolutely thriving: cannabis.com's pot-shots gallery. They're getting trolls out the yin-yang now, but the signal is still much better than the noise. People post their pictures and their setups get commented for both their photography and the items depicted.

--Threed - Looking out for Numero Uno since 1976!

Re: Photography Community Online (2.00 / 1) (#8)
by tootired on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:24:24 AM EST

Tere is also a huge online photography community called photo.net that kicks major butt.

I am trying to set one up as well geared specifically toward graphic design.

[ Parent ]
Re: Photography Community Online (none / 0) (#16)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 07:06:45 PM EST

That's affiliated with the Ars Digita folks, no? I've checked it out before. They also have an online book somewhere on the site (about dbase backend web sites) that uses random images from the photo.net site to break up the text. Really liked that ;) --luap

[ Parent ]
Elfwood -- amateur fantasy/SF art & fiction (3.00 / 1) (#9)
by Erf on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:58:41 AM EST

There's a site called Elfwood that hosts amateur fantasy/SF art and short stories, free of charge. They've got a mechanism to leave comments about the works, or about the artist/writer in general. The quality of work varies enormously, of course, but some of it is just incredible.

Since these are supposed to be amateurs, they don't directly support any sort of payment system, but there are links to the artists'/writers' home pages which can sell work or do anything they like.

...doin' the things a particle can...

Re: Elfwood -- amateur fantasy/SF art & fiction (none / 0) (#15)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 06:53:52 PM EST

The comments on the end of a 'work' is something I still need to implement. Shouldn't be hard to do, but it does take time ;) --luap

[ Parent ]
hyper-structured-graphics (3.00 / 1) (#10)
by scottj on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 01:55:39 PM EST

Have you considered exploring hyper-structured-graphics as a means for collaborative art-work? You'll find support for this in both Tgif and the drawing editors of ivtools. It allows one person to draw and publish anything they want, then a second person can incorporate their work into another drawing, and so on...

Re: hyper-structured-graphics (none / 0) (#14)
by luap on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 06:52:32 PM EST

sounds interesting. I will check it out... -luap

[ Parent ]
Prosebush (2.00 / 1) (#11)
by escapist on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 04:53:11 PM EST

On a related note, my friends and I are running a site ( www.prosebush.com) that sounds quite similar to what you are doing. We have people coming in from all over the net to help form tree-like stories, where each entry can branch in n-directions. The results have been great.
Don't let the changes, get you down now.
collective art | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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