Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
Things about stories...

By Miniluv in Meta
Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 09:45:25 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Couple things I'd like to see added to the functioning of the submission queue:
1) Ability to re-section by the author to save Rusty and the gang work, also allowing people to not have to vote down a story for a small mistake.

2) Ability for author to delete their own submission if a certain set of criteria for comments haven't been met. IE no topical comments, none rated above 3, etc etc.


Quick rundown on my reasoning, as I've wished for both of these in my several aborted story attempts...

1) I haven't ridiculously missectioned a story, though I've read quite a few really good submissions that were sectioned questionably. It's frustrating to see a good story end up voted down because of poor sectioning and overworked (lazy? :) site admins.

2) I've posted two stories to date that I regretted later, especially when I saw the commentary they sparked was rather pointless. I really wish I could've deleted them very early on before making a hundred or so people read the durn thing and vote it down. In one case the only non-editorial commentary was mine, and I certainly wouldn't have minded losing that.

Anyhow...maybe we can use this as a place to marshal our general ideas about the submission queue in one handy place to submit for review and possibly coding? And if we don't like what happens we can always use one convenient story ID number as our reason for lynching people.

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Also by Miniluv


Display: Sort:
Things about stories... | 37 comments (20 topical, 17 editorial, 0 hidden)
-1's for trivial reasons are a good thing (3.20 / 10) (#7)
by Nyarlathotep on Tue Oct 31, 2000 at 07:00:45 PM EST

No, it is VERY importent that large numbers of people give stories -1's for little things like spelling, wrong section, etc. as this is the ONLY way to increase the quality of stories we read here. Slashdot has editors who can clean up the story, but K5 dose not have editors and a technological replacment for editors would be rediculusly complex (even with voting on editoing decissions). I think we should be incuraging people to vote -1 when they see something done poorly (like the article reads like an advertisment).
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!
Agreed... (2.00 / 1) (#9)
by Miniluv on Tue Oct 31, 2000 at 07:05:01 PM EST

But if the content of a story is good, shouldn't it be resectionable? I agree, I vote -1 on my share of stories, though I try to judge on content over presentation where possible, but that's neither here nor there.

I think we run the risk of missing out on good stories when a first time author posts a story full of solid content, that's gonna provoke great discussion, and mis-sections it by mistake and cannot fix the problem. Yeah, rusty can take care of this, but he's also got better ways to spend his time than continually resectioning stories. As K5 grows this only going to become more of a problem, rather than less.
"Its like someone opened my mouth and stuck a fistful of herbs in it." - Tamio Kageyama, Iron Chef 'Battle Eggplant'
[ Parent ]

resectioning (3.00 / 1) (#16)
by Nyarlathotep on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 02:01:36 AM EST

No, I do not think resectioning is a really bad ideea. I just think that it's more complex then your making it sound. Specificaly, you need to allow people to revote based on the change of section, so resectioing should (partially) wipe out the old votes. You now need a feature to prevent an author from resectioing more then once to keep a story (spam) in the queue. All of the "voters as editors" solutions will have simillar poblems. Now, you could have diffrent types of -1 votes: -1 (this story can not be saved), -1 (fix it). The author could then remove all the -1 (fix it) by making a change of section or replacment story. This is not really that complex, but it still requires explaining to people that they need to make comments and vote a second time when they choose "fix it." Anyway, there are a million editorial tasks where voters could participate, but they are a significant modification to the user interface which makes voting more complex. The complexity of te voting procedure needs to be seriously considered before going feature crazy.
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. (none / 0) (#18)
by Miniluv on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 03:52:26 AM EST

It's one of the complexities that makes this site work in the way it does. I'm realizing that, the problem with my idea of a vote for "fix it" is that then you're STILL going to have to reset the other people who voted for it in it's "current" form. This COULD be handled through an email notification with a link to a page containing the new story, and link to a page containing the "diff" as someone else suggested and rusty mentioned as well.

Maybe if we wanted to resection we could checkbox our suggested resection, and then scoop could track the resection and if it matched our selection we could select it to auto-cast a +1 section or frontpage if we so desired? Sounds complicated, but might not be so terribly difficult to automate..and would mean people'd be less tied to slavishly watch the submission queue.

Also, absolutely right on the only one resectioning. I hadn't even considered that potential for abuse...guess maybe I'm just too "law abiding" eh?
"Its like someone opened my mouth and stuck a fistful of herbs in it." - Tamio Kageyama, Iron Chef 'Battle Eggplant'
[ Parent ]

What, NO! (3.00 / 1) (#26)
by Garc on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 12:54:08 PM EST

I'm realizing that, the problem with my idea of a vote for "fix it" is that then you're STILL going to have to reset the other people who voted for it in it's "current" form. This COULD be handled through an email notification with a link to a page containing the new story, and link to a page containing the "diff" as someone else suggested and rusty mentioned as well.

I for one don't want to get emails everytime some yahoo changes his|her story on k5. I have enough trouble keeping up with my email as it is.

I know that you didn't specifically support the idea, I just wanted to go on record as saying I don't like it.

garc
--
Tomorrow is going to be wonderful because tonight I do not understand anything. -- Niels Bohr
[ Parent ]

User defineable option... (none / 0) (#34)
by Miniluv on Sun Nov 05, 2000 at 07:24:13 PM EST

How about adding a little check box in our preferences page that populates a field in scoops nifty lil database, so people who don't mind get the emails, and people who do mind don't get them.

I definitely understand why you wouldn't necessarily want them...though I think the volume'd be a lot lower than you expect if it were just the ability to delete a story and to resection it one time...


"Its like someone opened my mouth and stuck a fistful of herbs in it." - Tamio Kageyama, Iron Chef 'Battle Eggplant'
[ Parent ]

Emails are aVERY bad idea (3.00 / 1) (#35)
by Nyarlathotep on Tue Nov 07, 2000 at 12:29:42 PM EST

No, the emails thing is a VERY bad idea. Scoop should just reintroduce the story to the persons story queue, so that the person can vote when they next check the submission queue. Anyway, I would not suggest doing any special for resectioning execpt allowing the author to submit one replacment story (possibly to a diffrent section). If your replacment story changes the section then you loose all "+1 this section only" votes, but you also loose all "-1 fix it" votes when you submit the replacment (regardless of resectioing). A "-1 fix it" vote would mean "I really like this story, but I really want it chenged (spellchecked, resectioned, links aded, etc.)" Anyway, you only have one shot at fixing your story, so you better read all the comments to make everyone happy. The new voting options would read something like: +1 front page +1 any section only +1 this section only 0 I don't care 0 fix it -1 fix it -1 trash it (unfixable) "+1 this section only," "0 fix it," and "-1 fix it" would be the only votes that could be modified. Alternativly, you could have the same voting option you currently have, but add a check box which said "I might want to chenge my vote if the author changes the story." This check box would always default to "off," but it would be a safe assumption that anyone who had an intelegent comment would have selected this box. Anywho, the point is to keep it simple. Special stuff for resectioning is a bad idea since there are diffrent editorial tasks which need simillar features.
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!
[ Parent ]
Very true... (none / 0) (#37)
by Miniluv on Wed Nov 08, 2000 at 05:35:22 AM EST

I'm not so sure on the email feature being bad if it's user defineable...I don't check kuro5hin as often as I'd like some days, but if I got sent an email saying a story I'd voted fix on had changed, I'd certainly pop on quickly to revote and contribute to the site.
I definitely agree with the rest though..makes great sense to me.
"Its like someone opened my mouth and stuck a fistful of herbs in it." - Tamio Kageyama, Iron Chef 'Battle Eggplant'
[ Parent ]
Practice what you preach? (3.50 / 6) (#14)
by Speare on Tue Oct 31, 2000 at 08:57:43 PM EST

No, it is VERY importent[sic] that large numbers of people give stories -1's for little things like spelling, wrong section, etc. as this is the ONLY way to increase the quality of stories we read here. Slashdot has editors who can clean up the story, but K5 dose[sic] not have editors and a technological replacment for editors would be rediculusly[sic] complex (even with voting on editoing[sic] decissions[sic]). I think we should be incuraging[sic] people to vote -1 when they see something done poorly (like the article reads like an advertisment).


[ e d @ h a l l e y . c c ]
[ Parent ]
I agree and... (1.33 / 3) (#13)
by boxed on Tue Oct 31, 2000 at 08:16:57 PM EST

There really should be some check against duplicate posts...

re-section (3.00 / 1) (#17)
by enterfornone on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 03:41:37 AM EST

how would this work? if you re section would the vote reset or just continue (with lots of people having already voted -1). it would be better to have the author re submit to the correct section

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
If the author changes a story... (4.00 / 1) (#20)
by Luke Scharf on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 07:32:26 AM EST

If we decide that the author can make any changes to the story (resection, whatever), Scoop should post as a comment a note about what got changed.

Just my $0.02...



[OT] Rate same comment multiple times (2.00 / 3) (#23)
by hariya on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 11:09:12 AM EST

I know that I can not rate my own comments but I can rate other people's comments any number of times. I am surprised that even after I am done rating a comment, I can rate it again. I vaguely grasp the concept of mojo and that there is no effective means of mojo-whoring but I am curious about certain things. What stops me from abusing this fact besides my own high moral ground?



It doesn't seem to work like that. (4.50 / 2) (#24)
by Hillgiant on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 11:46:56 AM EST

I haven't peeked at the source code, but just with a little experementing, I got this:
-I modded your comment to 5; hit [rate all] and the comment was rated 5
-I modded your comment to 1; hit [rate all] and the comment was rated 1. Not 3 as I would expect if I could rate multiple times.
-Just to be anal, I modded your comment back to 5. It changed back to 5 (not 3.667)

Conclusion? You can change the rating but you're votes are not cumulative.

-----
"It is impossible to say what I mean." -johnny
[ Parent ]

exactly (4.00 / 1) (#29)
by rusty on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 07:59:26 PM EST

I thought this would be clearer than it is (site docs!! We need site docs!!) but you can change your rating of any comment at any time. I.e. you get one data point in the overall rating, and you may adjust it as you see fit. If you change it, the average is recalculated with your new rating replacing your old rating.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
story moderation (none / 0) (#31)
by jesterzog on Thu Nov 02, 2000 at 01:00:07 AM EST

I think it would also be quite helpful if stories could be moderated in the same way. There are a number of times when I've voted on a story and then wanted to change my vote after reading some of the comments.


jesterzog Fight the light


[ Parent ]
Ummm ... (none / 0) (#25)
by Bad Mojo on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 12:09:34 PM EST

Let's leave mojo whoring out of this ok? I don't always have the money I need to buy those geek toys. I'm not proud of it, but I do what I have to.

(Yes, I'm joking.)

-Bad Mojo
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!"
B. Watterson's Calvin - "Calvin & Hobbes"

[ Parent ]
I like 2, but not 1. (3.50 / 2) (#27)
by Garc on Wed Nov 01, 2000 at 01:01:42 PM EST

Authors should be able to delete submissions, but I can see how some people might disagree with me. If I'm super pumped about the next release of Amiga, and someone posts a story, I'll be excited. I could get upset if the author decides to remove it just because he|she didn't like the discussion it was generating.

If a poster realizes that he|she as a whole bunch of errors, he should be able to delete his|her previous submission, and resubmit it with the corrections. Why add functionality to allow authors to make changes, and then reset the vote, when you're doing almost the exact same thing by deleting and resubmitting?

I agree that authors should have the ability to delete their submissions, but not to make arbitrary changes at a whim. We have a Preview button, use it.

garc
--
Tomorrow is going to be wonderful because tonight I do not understand anything. -- Niels Bohr

Pseudo-Random Changes (none / 0) (#32)
by Miniluv on Thu Nov 02, 2000 at 03:53:24 AM EST

Definitely shouldn't happen. Typo correction and such is one thing, maybe we should bug rusty to implement a way for us to have a spell check function? Ezboards uses some outside provider, I dunno what the deal is, but it's pretty good spell check...uses some shitty popup window, but it's handy none-the-less.

All I would like to see is the ability to resection, because it appears to happen rather often, and people complain and vote -1 on a story they otherwise like. Yeah, it's similar to deleting and resubmitting, but without all the extra typing. And yes, rusty could do it, as signal 11 and I debated in editorial comments that got lost, but why make work for rusty multiple times, instead of just making him do more code-monkey stuff?
"Its like someone opened my mouth and stuck a fistful of herbs in it." - Tamio Kageyama, Iron Chef 'Battle Eggplant'
[ Parent ]

More vote choices (none / 0) (#33)
by Defect on Thu Nov 02, 2000 at 06:40:26 PM EST

Everytime i see a story that has minor problems (poorly thought out title, wrong section, etc) i always wish there was another choice like [proofread] (having a point value of 0).

I don't think a user should have the ability to change any aspect of a story at will, but maybe after a certain amount of [proofread] votes certain things could be open to modification, like the title, sectioning, or poll options.

I fully agree with the option of removing or hiding stories that you've posted though.
defect - jso - joseth || a link
Things about stories... | 37 comments (20 topical, 17 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!