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[P]
Scoop feature requests.

By enterfornone in Meta
Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 06:31:28 AM EST
Tags: Scoop (all tags)
Scoop

Scoop is the software than runs K5. It has it's own site at scoop.kuro5hin.org which is the place to go if you want to report a bug or request a feature.

Lately there have been a lot of meta postings here that are really feature requests for Scoop. And a lot of editorial discussing where Scoop feature requests should be sent.


The argument basically comes down to this, on one hand Kuro5hin is just another Scoop site. Just as you would not post an Apache feature request to any random Apache site, you shouldn't post a Scoop feature request here.

On the other hand, Kuro5hin is the most popular Scoop site, and is run by the primary Scoop developer. On scoop.kuro5hin.org an article can be voted up with only four votes and most articles have less than half a dozen comments. Obviously a feature request posted to Kuro5hin will be seen by a larger share of the Scoop using population.

So what is the solution (if this is a problem at all)? First up, would be to drop any Scoop feature requests posted here, and encourage people who are interested in Scoop to check out scoop.kuro5hin.org. Another would be to allow K5 related Scoop feature requests in the Meta section.

Another option would be to create a Scoop section to differenciate Scoop feature requests from non-scoop related meta. Obviously Scoop discussion that doesn't involve K5 (announcements of new Scoop sites, or bugs and feature requests not related to K5) still belongs on the Scoop site.

Many of the K5 community want to be involved in the future direction of K5. Part of that is being involved in the future of Scoop. What is the best way of getting people involved?

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Poll
Where should Scoop feature requests be sent?
o Scoop.kuro5hin.org 45%
o Meta 13%
o A Scoop section on K5 26%
o Inoshiro 14%

Votes: 98
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Scoop feature requests. | 21 comments (15 topical, 6 editorial, 0 hidden)
I stopped going to scoop because it was down (3.00 / 4) (#1)
by maynard on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 08:30:04 PM EST

It was down for such a long time too. I suppose I should recheck... but since I've never submitted a meta article I haven't had the inclination. If scoop.kuro5hin.org is back online we should recommend that feature requests go to scoop and meta discussion about the k5 community remain here. JMO.

--Maynard

Read The Proxies, a short crime thriller.

Many of us aren't sure . . . (4.25 / 4) (#2)
by Toojays on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 08:51:43 PM EST

Which features belong to Scoop and which are k5 specific. Like if I'm not someone who has ever setup Scoop or looked at the code, and I wanted to request that people be able to check-out their diaries (to access them offline, and for backup purposes), is there a simple way to tell whether that would be a feature to add to Scoop, or a kuro5hin specific extension?

Or is it safe to assume that if it's a k5 feature, it's in the main Scoop tree as well?

k5 runs on scoop... (2.50 / 2) (#7)
by ramses0 on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 10:17:36 PM EST

...so, any feature you see on k5 is a feature you can run on your own scoop site. Now, I don't know if scoop.k5.org has all the features turned on (like diaries?) ... I'd assume it does, but I know there are some configuration options (like anonymous posting) that can be enabled/disabled on a per-site basis.

(actually, diaries are available on scoop.k5.org, under "dev-notes"... yet another reason to call them journals and not diaries ;^)=

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]

Bad Idea to mix scoop and K5 (3.00 / 5) (#4)
by mystic on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 09:21:08 PM EST

Even though K5 is run by the primary developer of scoop ( hello rusty), I don't think it is a good idea to mix scoop and K5.

All wishlists should be sent to scoop. Even though scoop is a generic system, it is always being built on the experience that K5 gives. So if you think that a diary in K5 needs some feature, go to scoop. If is it well received there, it will be reflected in K5, since K5 uses scoop codes. However if you want a seperate Section like "humour", then K5 is the place to request it, because scoop codes as such cannot do anything towards you request.

I recently discovered(thanks hurstdog) that scoop-help mailing list discusses a lot on wishlist that people are wanting and implementing. So if you have something to say, you may also want to subscribe to that list.

Ofcourse if you submit a scoop related story on K5, I am sure my friends will be kind enough to point it to you in the comments (with some comments like "scoop baby, scoop scoop baby") and then when you story is thrown out (you wont have to wait long, it is a fast and painless process), you can come down to scoop and repost it :-)

Bottomline, don't mix scoop and K5.

Scoop section (3.75 / 4) (#6)
by forgey on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 09:52:40 PM EST

What is the possibility of articles/questions/comments posted to k5's Scoop section mirrored on a section on scoop.kuro5hin.com. In effect linking the two sites for this specific topic.

This would allow lazy k5'ers to post here but have thier concerns/suggestions seen by the main scoop developers.

forge

K5 (3.80 / 5) (#8)
by Refrag on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 11:13:38 PM EST

K5 should either have a Scoop section that will be mirrored on scoop.kuro5hin.com or it should have a meta section that allows K5 users to request features.

It is bad to assume that all of the good suggestions are going to come from people involved with Scoop development. And it is egotistical to require a user to create a login on a different developer-centric site simply to request a feature for a site.

I feel that every Scoop site should have a feature request forum, and the admin of the site should bubble up any worthy feature requests to Scoop.

Refrag

Kuro5hin: ...and culture, from the trenches

A bit more about Scoop in the FAQ. (4.00 / 2) (#10)
by turtleshadow on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 11:17:21 PM EST

As a newbie I had to read the FAQ. Yes I admit to reading them.
There is only a single link to Scoop in the FAQ and as its written does not relate to "How do I get a feature request?" A simple sentence in the FAQ would help
    "This site proudly uses SCOOP as its posting engine and encourages its ongoing development "
My very first post at K5 was marred for SCOOP bug -- < in the header. Thankfully a good sole followed up and commented that it was a bug and reported it to the development team.
As a new poster this experience was a bit frustrating.
The icon at the bottom is relatively ineffective as looks like a sponsor's link.
The FAQ is best place to put a very explicit Scoop link for persons like myself who ask "where's this? " How does that work?"
Wish:
The K5 FAQ briefly hypes the moderation feature of Scoop but doesn't inform you when your story is pounded -- ahem voted -- down, mail will be sent you so that you can actually find the comments upon your post. I suppose its a feature of SCOOP?


or another idea... (3.75 / 4) (#13)
by 31: on Thu Dec 14, 2000 at 11:48:45 PM EST

Have a scoop section, and just have it be a mirror of scoop.kuro5hin.org... that way scoop could have the discussion on the topic, and the rest of us could ignore it (and *heh* some us might stop instictively voting -1 to meta)

-Patrick
-1 because (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by rusty on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 12:11:48 AM EST

I don't really agree with this.

On the one hand, bug reports should go to scoop.k5, unless they're K5-only bugs (which happens more often than you might think). Then they should be emailed to help@kuro5hin.org.

Wishlist stuff, on the other hand, like "things we want for K5", should be posted here. The scoop development site is mainly for developers and users of Scoop. And by users, I mean "admins"-- people who are running it for something. Any wishlist items from K5 readers are basicaslly things you want on K5. I would rather the scoop development site not be full of K5 wishlist items. I'd say, post them here, and if they are good ideas, the implementation discussion will go on at scoop.k5.

I basically don't want scoop.kuro5hin.org to be the "what we want for K5" site. A lot of traffic from people who are neither scoop site admins, or developers, is likely to constitute noise on the scoop development site, and I'd really like to keep that as clear a channel as possible.

All this doesn't mean I don't want your idea. Absolutely we do! But if your suggestion is motivated by wanting a change in how K5 works, here is the place to post it. If you want to help out with scoop in general, we welcome your input. But I'd much rather keep scoop.kuro5hin.org focused on Scoop itself, not K5 wishlist items.

____
Not the real rusty

Which part don't you agree with? (4.00 / 1) (#16)
by enterfornone on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 01:36:00 AM EST

I can see your point, but my article has three suggestions and you are only really disagreeing with one of them.

For every wishlist posted here, it receives a dozen "post it to scoop.kuro5hin.org" editorials. The article gives three opions (1. make it clear scoop articles are acceptable in meta, 2. make a scoop section here or 3. direct everything to scoop).

Much like MLP vs News, we should discuss this so everyone has the same idea of what meta is for and what s.k.o is for.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
or, option 4 (4.00 / 2) (#20)
by rusty on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 10:04:34 AM EST

4. Forget about Scoop if you're not a developer or an admin. :-)

If you have a suggestion for K5, I'd like to see it in Meta. If you have an implementation plan, and you're familiar with the Scoop code, or are going to become so, post it to scoop.k5.

So, consider my opinion on it duly and officially noted. And watch while every meta article continues to receive a dozen "post it to scoop" comments. Some things you just can't change, and I've mostly given up trying on this one.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Darnit (4.00 / 2) (#17)
by Elendale on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 02:46:07 AM EST

If you don't agree, then vote up and reply! If you vote it out of existence then your comment won't reach other people- but if instead it gets voted up, people will see it and become educated. Well, hopefully.

-Elendale
---

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.


[ Parent ]
Topical Comments after voting down. (none / 0) (#18)
by reshippie on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 09:55:42 AM EST

I don't think it makes sense. I personally don't post to articles that I vote down. If I like the article, but think it needs work, I'll vote it down, then post an editorial comment. Hopefully it will get fixed, and then I will happily share my opinion with everyone.

I find it very inconsistant to post a topical comment to a story that you don't feel deserves to be put up.
</rant>

Those who don't know me, probably shouldn't trust me. Those who do DEFINITELY shouldn't trust me. :-)
[ Parent ]

post & vote (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by rusty on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 10:01:06 AM EST

I voted it down because the article is presented as a "here's how it should be". If we go and post it, people will read the article and think "oh, so that's how it is". I don't want it to be that way, ergo, I vote against the article, and explain why.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
No it doesn't (2.33 / 3) (#21)
by enterfornone on Fri Dec 15, 2000 at 06:23:23 PM EST

It presents three quite different options, one of which you agreed to (posting feature requests to meta).

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
Scoop feature requests. | 21 comments (15 topical, 6 editorial, 0 hidden)
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