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[P]
K5 FAQ and DOC pt2

By farl in Meta
Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:15:06 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

A while back I made the mistake of offering to help with the K5 FAQ and Doc. After some significant amount of work (which I expected but didn't realise how much), these docs are ready for review by the masses. So please take a look, and then dice it apart and let me know.

Please feel free to correct spelling, grammer, layout, style, whatever. Feel free to suggest new sections, new topics, areas that I have missed, anything. All feedback is appreciated. The more feedback I can get, the better this DOC will be.

The DOC is here.


As newer versions of it get posted to my site, they will be in the format of DATE_TIME.html. So just use your common sense to get the latest version.

Please either post comments to here, or post send me email at farl@sketchwork.com and I will dutifully make all the necessary corrections, additions and changes.

Farl
farl@sketchwork.com
www.sketchwork.com

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K5 FAQ and DOC pt2 | 41 comments (40 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
Corrections (4.20 / 5) (#1)
by Dacta on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 06:16:40 PM EST

In Privacy Policy, it says our email addresses are only used to confirm our accounts.

I know that's what it says in the currect FAQ, but actually an email is sent to them when a story is posted or dumped.

Also, perhaps the reference to Edna Graustein needs to be explained? As far as I know her name isn't used for anything anymore, and hasn't been since the DoS - which might need explaining as well.

Otherwise, pretty cool. Good job, farl!



It's stillthere (3.50 / 4) (#3)
by Qtmstr on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 06:35:19 PM EST

It's still there --- Check the legalise page.


Kuro5hin delenda est!
[ Parent ]
So it is! (2.50 / 2) (#4)
by Dacta on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 06:52:38 PM EST

Okay then... I've never looked at the legalese before.



[ Parent ]
Corrections noted and done! (2.83 / 6) (#6)
by farl on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 07:03:28 PM EST

Totally missed the legalese page.

The information has been updated a new doc has been posted.

Thanks!


Farl
k5@sketchwork.com
www.sketchwork.com
[ Parent ]
A few points (4.62 / 8) (#5)
by jesterzog on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 06:56:58 PM EST

Looks good. Thanks for the effort you've put in. There are a few things I've picked up on the first reading.

  1. Under the Rating comments section, it explains how 1 means bad and 5 means good - which is more descriptive than we used to have. But it still doesn't explain how to treat a lot of comments. For example, if someone comments "Yes" and it answers a question perfectly, is it worth a 5? What if the comment is only useful for a select group of people and was never intended to appeal to everyone else?

  2. In the current form, the writeup seems to randomly jump between first person and third person - probably related to taking parts of the current FAQ. For example, the word "I" is used in the privacy policy, and there's no definite indication of who "I" actually means. The next section is titled Who is Rusty and why does he do this? which gives the impression that the previous paragraph wasn't written by him.

  3. I'm not sure how close this is to the final markup, but hopefully it'll be converted a bit from the MS Word filter. At the moment, most headings aren't marked as headings, for example. They're just bold paragraphs. (Incidently IMHO, <strong> and <em> are superior to <b> and <i>.)


jesterzog Fight the light


Comments noted! (3.16 / 6) (#7)
by farl on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 07:07:13 PM EST

i will only be doing the final markups of the section once the whole doc is complete. And it will be done in BBEdit instead of crap Word. But Word is the only program i have here at work to use.

Good points on the ratings. Will write something in to that effect.

As for first person, the original doc was written in the first person, and occasionally in my rewrite i forgot to not write it in the first person and take it out to the third. I will be doing a final check and removing all first person from the doc, except for where its a quote, and in the mission statement.

Thanks for the feedback. I am working on them right now.


Farl
k5@sketchwork.com
www.sketchwork.com
[ Parent ]
If you're transferring it anyway... (4.00 / 3) (#11)
by Qtmstr on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:56:29 PM EST

If you're putting it into a different format anyway, you might want to consider using LaTeX for it --- it'll be easier to maintain, as it can handle references properly (no more "this question if obselete but is still here to avoid renumbering", as I've seen in many FAQs), can automatically generate a table of contents,
handle tables, etc.

You can auto generate good HTML from it with latex2html.


Kuro5hin delenda est!
[ Parent ]
LaTeX (2.66 / 6) (#13)
by farl on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 09:09:25 PM EST

what platforms is it available for?


Farl
k5@sketchwork.com
www.sketchwork.com
[ Parent ]
Re: Platforms (3.50 / 2) (#15)
by Qtmstr on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 09:53:39 PM EST

Nearly everything on the face of the earth.


Kuro5hin delenda est!
[ Parent ]
TeX information here. (3.50 / 2) (#16)
by antizeus on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 09:58:07 PM EST

Start here: tug.org
-- $SIGNATURE
[ Parent ]
News vs MLP (4.50 / 8) (#8)
by enterfornone on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:01:53 PM EST

There still doesn't seem to be a good explaination of News Vs MLP. The FAQ suggests that anything that is a link with little writeup is MLP, which a lot of people seem to disagree with.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
Most definitely agree (3.00 / 4) (#18)
by simmons75 on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 11:07:00 PM EST

I coudn't have said it better myself, enterfornone. :-)

The tendency right now seems to be to vote anything that's SHORT and has a LINK down if it's not labeled MLP. MLP needs to be more sharply defined, IMHO.
poot!
So there.

[ Parent ]
Question (2.00 / 2) (#9)
by shirobara on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:03:27 PM EST

Before I get to chopping this all up, I was just wondering - how sacred is the mission statement? To me, it seems pretty clunky in spots and I'd like to get a chance at it. If it's the "official" mission statement, though, then maybe I shouldn't get quite so hasty about picking it apart.



help yourself (3.50 / 6) (#14)
by farl on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 09:11:09 PM EST

this mission is the only thing i took verbatim from the site. the rest was written by me modeled after what was here.

you can always ahck it up and then ahve rusty revert it. Its not long and wouldnt take very long. I just never did it as i figured it was sacred writ. But if you think you could help here, go for it


Farl
k5@sketchwork.com
www.sketchwork.com
[ Parent ]
Always hated (3.66 / 3) (#19)
by titus-g on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 12:23:57 AM EST

mission statements anyways....

but anyhoo, have you thought about induling in more scientific hobbies to stimulate the right side of your brain, you seem to have a bit of an imbalence (the old h before a typo rule)

ps: just kidding :)

--"Essentially madness is like charity, it begins at home" --
[ Parent ]

Some corrections (4.50 / 6) (#10)
by mystic on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:42:03 PM EST

First - Well done and thanks.
2.Enter a username and a valid email. Make sure you Do not make mistakes here.
Why is the "D" in "Do" capitalised? To give importance try bold rather than make it look like wrong English.

However, the body of your story will not show.
Shouldn't it be "However, the body of your story will not be shown." ?? Anyway, if I am not mistaken rusty has implemented a system where the discarded story will be fully visible to the submitter along with the replies/comments. So I guess you have to completely modify this portion of FAQ.

Spam is a great example of a comment that needs a good 1'ning.
Maybe you can write it in standard english as " Spam is a great example of a comment that needs to be rated 1".

More later (...maybe)

The spirit of HTML (4.00 / 4) (#21)
by eann on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 09:31:23 AM EST

Try <strong> instead of bold. Yeah, it looks the same for almost everyone, but there are valid reasons for keeping the ideas separate.

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


[ Parent ]
Strong Vs. Bold (3.66 / 3) (#22)
by reshippie on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 12:03:57 PM EST

Having only picked up HTML from a website a few years ago, and from just putzing with it a little, what exactly is the difference between *strong* and *bold* tags? Is it just more elegant, or does it have some underlying effect on the page?

ps. There is no K5 Cabal. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Those who don't know me, probably shouldn't trust me. Those who do DEFINITELY shouldn't trust me. :-)
[ Parent ]

Re: Strong Vs. Bold (4.66 / 3) (#26)
by eann on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 01:07:47 PM EST

The trend in HTML (and now XML) over the last five years or so has been to try to separate content from presentation. The idea, loosely, is that some text should be handled differently (bold, larger size, colored background, whatever) because of the purpose it serves in the document. Essentially, this means that all markup should be meta-information about the content: "this is an important word or phrase", "this is a headline", etc.

In an ideal world, browsers (well, "user agents") could tell the difference. Words marked as needing <strong> emphasis must be important to the document, and should perhaps be considered possible keywords for search indexing, or spoken with a louder volume (if you're surfing via a text-reader for the vision-impaired), or get some other treatment in some web access situation we haven't yet imagined.

Where this really causes confusion is with <strong> versus <b> (and <em> versus <i>, etc.). I made the mistake once of asking on one of the W3C's mailing lists what it meant to have bold for bold's sake, rather than strong emphasis, in an effort to define the difference, or just understand why there were two tags to begin with, and why both or even either were necessary in HTML 4.0 Strict. While it's impossible to claim there's unanimous agreement, I think there's at least a vague general consensus:

  1. Use <strong> to emphasize a word group of words within a larger block of text (sentence or paragraph)
  2. Use <b> anywhere else where you want that visual effect, but it's not part of a larger block. Examples include table cells (except <th>, of course), terms in definition lists, and any special orthographic notation (like some paper dictionaries use to indicate an accented syllable or variants of a word).
  3. In the age of CSS, <b> isn't necessary at all. But CSS support is still crappy in most browsers, and <b> is so ingrained in the web at this point we'll likely never get rid of it. Plus, it's easier to type than <strong>, it looks the same anyway, and (as far as we know) none of those wonderful magic things about user agents knowing the difference are actually implemented anywhere, nor are they likely to be.

In short, you can do what you want and no one really cares. However, many of us believe that to make it as easy as possible for the web to evolve, we should try, where-ever it's practical, to follow both the letter and the spirit of the standard.


Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


[ Parent ]
Re: Strong Vs. Bold (4.75 / 4) (#28)
by WesHertlein on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 01:43:34 PM EST

This is just a quick clarification on eann's reply.

I remember seeing these arguments awhile back, a quick google search turned up a w3.org workshop page that goes through the form vs content discussion.

The relevant part of the text:
The difference is that if the markup is EM or STRONG, then the text is declared as requiring emphasis, but only that. It does not go further to declare how the text should be emphasized. On the other hand, while using I or B does emphasize the text, it does so in a purely visual way. "Italic" or "bold" are type setting directives for printed versions of the text. What if the markup were passed to a voice synthesizer to speak the text? How does one speak text that is bold? Using B commits one to a specific way of rendering the text, specifically, a visual one; when, what is really desired is a declaration that this text is somehow different and to allow the expression of that difference to vary depending on the medium in which it is rendered. Indeed, even within a medium, there may be constraints, such as screen real estate, that alter how emphasized text can be drawn. Thus, the use of EM and STRONG elements is superior in the sense that they describe the content without committing it to a specific format.
Of course, any aural browser would probably end up having to fudge in reverse. Basically, mozilla looks at bold and strong tags and bolds both. An aural browser would probably have to increase its volume for both strong and bold because of the way bold is used on the net.

Oh well... another example of design vs practice.

Wes

[ Parent ]
#kuro5hin stats page (4.71 / 7) (#12)
by 0x00 on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 08:57:12 PM EST

Your link at the moment is to a dead page (although it still links to the stats page)

The stats can be found at:
IRCNetwork:
http://tribble.dyndns.org/stats/

#kuro5hin current:
http://tribble.dyndns.org/stats/kuro5hin-cur.html

#kuro5hin annual:
http://tribble.dyndns.org/stats/kuro5hin-ann.html

--

0x00

So many clowns, so little time.

Thanks, farl! (4.40 / 5) (#17)
by Skippy on Wed Dec 27, 2000 at 10:29:47 PM EST

You've done a great job so far at a thankless task. Most of these have been covered already but here are my suggestions.
  • Make sure users understand that more stories get posted to section than the front page and that there is more to K5 than the front page. It covers it but doesn't come out and say that exactly but I think it needs to. We don't need people thinking that's all there is.
  • Fix the 1st/3rd person switches (already noted)

    As I said, great job. What are all these linux people gonna think when they find out you're on a Mac? Man I wish they made BBEdit for other OS's. :-)

    # I am now finished talking out my ass about things that I am not qualified to discuss. #

  • FYI (4.33 / 6) (#20)
    by Inoshiro on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 04:40:59 AM EST

    The farl work is "endorsed" by the admins. I've been working on my own document (which is not a derivitive of our existing docs in that it doesn't include material from them yet), but haven't had time to bring the document to as much completion as I'd like it to be.



    --
    [ イノシロ ]
    Stylisms (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by eann on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 12:27:04 PM EST

    As I read the most recent draft, I'll pull out a few nitpicky things (in roughly the order I see them). Okay, it's a lot of nitpicky things. Deal with it. Anyway, please take them all as friendly suggestions...

    In the middle of a sentence, is it Kuro5hin or kuro5hin? What about Kuro5hin.org vs. kuro5hin.org? And, if either of the "winners" is lower case, does it change at the beginning of a sentence? Are the two (with and without the .org) interchangeable, or is there a reason to use one or the other? Or to use one exclusively? Establish a style for words specific to the site, (including the names of the cabal ...er... rusty, Inoshiro, and the other admins/editors), as well as features on/of the site ("navigation bar"? "section menu"?), and stick to it throughout.

    Consider using <strong> and/or <em> instead of all caps. It may be worth it to do a draft as "real" HTML in the final pass at editing.

    In the account creation process, there are several spots that look a little clumsy to me. Simple simple simple. To tech writers, "simple" is a nasty red flag word--if you have to say it, it isn't. How about "...valid email address" in step 2, and do something with "short amount of time" in step 3. Also, without actually creating another account to check this for myself, I think it's possible to keep using the "temporary" password indefinitely, so I'd probably call it "initial" instead.

    Follow these directions to create an account:
    1. Click on the "Make a new account" link. [ref in screenshot?]
    2. Enter a username and a valid email address. These are very important; review both for errors before you click the "Create Account!" button.
    3. You will receive an email that contains an initial password and the URL that you need to activate your account.
    4. Follow the URL and enter your password to complete the process. You should probably change your password immediately to something that's easier for you to remember (see "[link]preferences[/link]" below).
    Please note that if you enter a bad email address, not only will you never receive an initial password, but you will also lock that username out of the system. ...

    Lose the "It is just how it is." That's confusing enough for native English speakers, and it doesn't add any information that non-native speakers need to spend time translating.

    Enough with the reassurances already. If I've gone through the trouble of creating an account, I'm probably willing to look at the preferences page at least once, especially now that you've recommended it to me. It it looks simple, I'll use it; if not, I won't.

    If you lose your password, you can get a new one mailed to the "real" email address attached to your account. K5, unlike that other site, does not keep a plaintext record of your password.

    No comma after the "is" in "Well, the short answer is anything you find interesting." And those capital D's keep showing up, too.

    I might change "A summary of an article on another site and a one or two sentence statement of opinion are all well and good, but there are lots of other places for such articles." to something more like "A summary of an article on another site, with only a one- or two-sentence statement of opinion added by you, is not usually preferred here (there are other places for that)."

    "How to submit an article" (and a couple of the other section headers) are not technically questions. While it's certainly in the spirit of the document, if you want to be rigid and formal about what goes in a FAQ, you should re-word it.

    "Simply" again. You know. What about "Log in to your account (see "[link]Account Questions[/link]" above if you don't have one), and click the "submit story" link in the blue bar near the top of the page [another ref to screenshot?]." Usually, "all-important" is hyphenated, and it may be better to reassure people, especially those who aren't native English speakers/writers, that there is spelling and grammar help available via editors@kuro5hin.org, rather than threaten them with "heavy fire" for noncompliance.

    Things I'd add/remove from the answer to "What goes into an article?":

    drop "to it"
    1. drop trailing "in"; add suggested (or enforced) max title length.
    2. drop the first "short"; hyphens after "one" and "two"; un-capitalize and <strong> or <em> on the second "short"; comma after "Generally"; lowercase "s" in "(see..."; use "below" or make the question a link to its place in the page (or, preferably, both).
    3. fix the "not".
    4. lose the ()s; add a period at the end.
    5. ditto.
    6. change "option" to "optional"; change "8 options" to "8 answers"; and consider "they are interesting or amusing sometimes".
    7. probably shouldn't be a number, since you specifically said there were 6 parts just before the list; drop "a few times"; hyphenate "re-previewing"; recommend manually checking all links and actually reading the text (aloud if necessary).
    8. OBEY! [Sorry; I couldn't resist.] Again, it probably doesn't need to be numbered.
    Oh, and current style for common english usage says spell out numbers less than (or equal to, depending on who you read) ten when used in a sentence. There's a "4" below, somewhere, too.

    "Take note" and "remember" are redundant. How about "Remember the following important items when writing your story:"? Is rusty the appropriate email link, or would the generic "editors" address be better?

    While you're fixing the words in all caps, note the "Do" right above the "resubmit" question.

    In that "resubmit" question, I'd change "on that email" to "in that email".

    In "moderation", use <ul> instead of <ol>, and lose the comma after "worthy" in "+1". Pick a style for "Front" or "front" page (same with "Section"). And there's a capital "Do" in the paragraph after the list.

    After the story is posted to front or section page, all comments are topical.

    Good trolls don't make themselves look like idiots. After "idiocy in someone else's statement.", consider something more like "More commonly, bad trolls make themselves look like idiots." I usually think of a troll as the message itself, rather than the person who posted it; you might consider making that distinction, too ("their authors" instead of "themselves"), since the person is definition 2 in the quote above.

    In general, I like to use "above" or "below" when I'm referring to things in the same long document. And links to anchors at those places. Put a colon after "how to rate comments".

    Those are stronger definitions than I remember. In fact, it's totally opposite what the current FAQ says: "Please note that 1 is not 'bad.' It just 'not as good as this other comment, which I'd rate five.'" Is the policy shift really intended?

    "Readers can change their rating later, although this is not common."

    Believe it or not, it's possible some people come to K5 without having been on Slashdot first. It might be a good idea to qualify it: "We do not have Slashdot-style "karma" here; ...". Rumor has it that "it's 3.5" should have an apostrophe. And "because of how" can be shortened to "because".

    Put a colon after "follow the discussion", and consider using a <dl> to delineate the options. It might be good to encourage repeated twiddling to improve one's user experience. Then again, some people just don't care that much.

    "So what?" should have a lowercase "w". Do something about "hotlist listing", and lose the bit that sounds like you expect us to remember how many comments a story had on it yesterday (note to rusty if he's read this far: date/time of last comment might be useful instead).

    It doesn't really look like a tab; you might consider the more generic word "link", or just tell people to click on "search" in the navigation bar.

    In the store, lose the word "both"--there are more than two things listed.

    We do use your email address for things. Don't suggest otherwise then contradict it. You get email every time the system sets the password on your account (the first time, and any time you request it thereafter), and every time an article you submitted makes it out of the moderation queue. We don't give or sell your email address (or any other information about you) to anyone else, ever.

    You've got a stray paragraph break in the copyright section. Edna's more fun if she's not qualified as "entirely fictional".

    The first "bad guys" paragraph is extremely clumsy. How about "If (and when) we get attacked, there are all of the obvious immediate responses: denying access by IP addresses, correcting security holes in Scoop, and other general running around in circles. We also contact..."? There's that "Do" again. I usually see manna spelled with a double "n". And it's not "one of our largest DoS attacks", it's just "our largest".

    Instead of "Since then", use "In the first year"

    When introducing the K5 cabal in the "who's involved" section, put a comma after "again".

    It would be appropriate to use <cite> instead of quotes to indicate the book Snow Crash.

    Okay, at some point, people don't want to read the long nasty URLs as part of the text. Just make an actual link and we'll get the address from our browser's status line (or whatever it's called this week) if we need it for something else.

    Have fun, because life is too short not to.


    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

    $email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


    001228_0934 version posted (3.66 / 3) (#24)
    by farl on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 12:36:59 PM EST

    new version posted.

    fixed MLP vs. News.
    will use <strong> tags in final.
    updated grammar and spelling
    fixed uppercase "D" for "do" (no idea how this error got made. damn search and replace)


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    nice (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by janra on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 12:44:24 PM EST

    A couple of small comments:

    • there is a paragraph break in the middle of the paragraph on 'Copyright and Ownership'
    • In 'Who is involved', #2 - 'providing my code with all kinds of input' should probably be 'providing the code' or 'providing the scoop code'
    • Again in 'Who is involved', #7 - flixchick is a friend of mine (this would be a friend of Rusty's, I assume?)

    --
    Discuss the art and craft of writing
    That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
    001227_1035.html (4.20 / 5) (#27)
    by farl on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 01:38:59 PM EST

    New version posted.

    includes eann's comments and corrections (and major thanks for these! took me an hour or so just to implement them. cannot imagine how long it took you to find them!) includes janra's comments and corrections.

    Thanks and keep the input coming!


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    Couple points (4.85 / 7) (#29)
    by sugarman on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 02:07:22 PM EST

    Well, first off, half of the document seems to be a How-To, and half is the FAQ. Would it be worth it to separate the 2?

    However, that won't change the following comments, which will apply to whatever section they get folded into. Briefly:

  • Do I need an account?
    under "No", explain what is available to the unregistered user (read stories)
  • Logging in
    Add a note about the importance of logging out, especially if at a shared terminal, workspace, etc. This has happened to a couple users, to a negative effect.
  • Under submitting a story, important consideration #6, resubmitting.
    Note that the user can make an editorial comment as soon as the story is submitted. You're posting, chances are good you can be at the top of the list. If it is a longish editoiral comment, then type it in notepad and have it ready to cut n paste once your re-submit.
  • How do I know when my story is posted?
    Add #4, View my stories, on the right hand side when logged in, or Search for stories and username
  • Diaries
    Expand and detail this a little more: Diaries work exactly like stories, except they are yours and cannot be moderated. They also have an intro and body (please use the body!) and polls. Anyone can view them and comment on them. You are not required to use them.
  • Commenting Articles
    Take this out from the "Article Moderation" heading it's under and make it it's own topic.
  • Commenting, item #3
    Editorial v Topical. If you have an editorial comment, make it editorial. IF you have both an editorial and topical, make 2 comments. Editorial stuff tends to get ignored / filtered once a story gets posted, so good on topic discussion might get lost under the radar. There is no posting limit, so make a post about each.
  • Trolls
    In the paragraph after the blockquote, you switch to a 1st person "Those of us who are good at it..." Personally, I'd strike this line entirely, as its elitist and encourages trolling. If you feel that it is necessary, change it from a "we". I still don't think it's a defensible position.
  • Humorous comments
    Lose the bit about rating up humorous stuff, as it's a hold-over from the "+1, Funny" days. Not saying there isn't a sense of humor here, just hold each joke on its own merit, and not because it's a joke.
  • Karma
    Don't define mojo as "not karma" as some here are not familiar with /. (and as k5 approaches critical mass as an entity in its own right, it is likely to attract people who aren't familiar with /. at all). Define mojo by what it is. Also, add the "0" rating thing to Rating Comments section, with a "See more under mojo" if you need to.
  • Site Navigation
    Is this really necessary? It's a webpage. Click things, go back. No explanation needed.
  • Privacy Policy
    I had issues with this recently, when Carnage4Life did his external web-search. Rusty felt that the external indexing of user posts was fine, I felt differently. I'm thinking it could use some clarification as it was ambiguous (to me, at least) then, and I find it still is. Also link to Carnage's page as an example. The section as a whole Probably could stand some more detail, but I don't think this should be up to you to rewrite, but rather the editors and owners of the site.
  • Who else is involved in the site
    This could probably use an update, as some of the names listed haven't been active (to my recollection) for a while. Is there still a k5 "European ops"? Is one even needed? Etc.
  • Also missing
    Scoop is mentioned in passing, but only when referring to the other site. Defintely add this in, and that questions about the engine itself should be done at scoop.kuro5hin.org. Also, mention that scoop is GPL'd, as this seems to matter to some people.

    Other than that, I can't think of too much that is missing. I'm assuming version numbers will be forthcoming, as it would make it easier in the future than describing it as I did above.

    Nice job, farl, coming along well. Hope to see how it looks at the end.

    --sugarman--

  • more comments... (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by janra on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 05:29:35 PM EST

    • In 'how do I sign up' the third item of the numbered list has '3.' as part of the item
    • Also in 'how do I sign up', you go to the URL emailed to you to activate the account, then log in normally, instead of just entering your password (unless k5 differs from scoop in this respect)
    • 'Please note that if you enter a bad email address' could be 'Please note that if you do not enter your email address correctly' - if you enter a 'good' email address that just happens to be one you don't have access to, you will still never get the mail.
    • In 'what happens if I lose my password' the password is not recovered and emailed to you, because it is stored encrypted. A new password is generated, and then emailed to you.
    • 'what goes into an article' #1 'something informative and catching' should be 'catchy' or 'eye-catching'
    • 'what goes into an article' #6 'Every story does not need a poll' should be 'Not every story needs a poll'
    • 'if I want to resubmit, how do I see what I did wrong': '(try refrain from revenge please)' should be 'try to refrain'
    • 'What is the moderation queue': 'Once you have voted, you can see the current state of how many votes it has got' should be 'Once you have voted, you can see the current score of the story'
    • 'How to submit a comment' #1 add 'while you are logged in' to the end
    • 'How to submit a comment' #3: 'Also, once a story is posted to the front page or a section page, you can write new topical comments. ' This is unclear - yes, you can write new topical comments, but can you only write topical comments, or are new editorial comments allowed as well? Can you reply to existing editorial comments?
    • 'How to submit a comment' #4: PLAINE TEXT should be PLAIN TEXT
    • 'How to submit a comment' #4 again: 'plain text comments are just plain text' could be clarified to indicate that line breaks in the text are preserved as paragraph breaks, so they won't be posting just one big lump of text.
    • 'Steps to joining the chat' (IRC section): #3 and 4: the server is not Kuro5hin.org.ircnetwork.net, it is kuro5hin.ircnetwork.net. Similarly, the room is named #kuro5hin, not #Kuro5hin.org. Watch out for global search and replace...
    • 'What we do to the bad guys': 'so that we can figure out a solution to the whole and make the site better for everyone involved' that's 'hole', not 'whole'
    • random facts: 'We were founded by Rusty' - well, the site was founded by Rusty, and we showed up and joined whenever we found the place.
    • 'who else is involved': the last entry doesn't match the others' formatting
    • 'Where did Kuro5hin.org get its name': 'Kuro5hin.org == corrosion' - should be 'kuro5hin == corrosion'
    • 'Where did Kuro5hin.org get its name': does the 'update' still need to be marked as such, since the entire document is being updated?

    Thanks for all the work you're putting into this, farl


    --
    Discuss the art and craft of writing
    That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
    MLP vs News (4.75 / 4) (#31)
    by enterfornone on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 05:38:30 PM EST

    MLP - this section is called "Mindless Link Propagation". It is for those really short articles that are barely a paragraph or two where the whole concept is to "follow a link" to somewhere else. do NOT post bare links, at least write a short bit about why following this link would be interesting. It is basically pointing that someone else's article is cool/worthy and that we should follow your link to learn more.

    News - news and stories of interest of major events happening around us. Similar to MLP in some subtle ways, but the major difference is that YOU report the news here, come up with your own conclusions, and provide the links as a way of providing supplementing information (as opposed to MLP where the link is ALL the information).

    I would tend to agree, but others (ie kmself) insist that a bare link to a news story is News and MLP only applies to *Mindless* links. My thought would be that it is the propagation that is mindless, not the link itself.

    Has Rusty OKed the FAQ definition? If so can we quit arguing about what the definition is?

    --
    efn 26/m/syd
    Will sponsor new accounts for porn.

    agreement (2.33 / 3) (#32)
    by farl on Thu Dec 28, 2000 at 05:51:28 PM EST

    Well i will only present this to Rusty once i have finished it and the readers of K5 like what they see. Do don't expect a solution to this anytime soon. Its a tough decision as to how to define them. If I manage to grab Rusty on #k5 I will ask him there and try to get an "official" answer.


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    [ Parent ]
    Comment rating.. (4.00 / 3) (#33)
    by mystic on Fri Dec 29, 2000 at 04:19:41 AM EST

    Didn't see this anywere(or I missed it) : ---> Maybe you should point out that others can know what your ratings were for a particular comment.

    As someone pointed out, the "FAQ" is more of FAQ + HOWTO. So I guess it is better to split it into FAQ and HOWTO. A newbie will be intimidated by a 40KB FAQ! Remember what FAQ stands for. It is FAQ and not AQ ! :)

    (\/)

    Problematic ratings (4.25 / 4) (#34)
    by Inoshiro on Fri Dec 29, 2000 at 04:57:15 AM EST

    I've had to field a bunch of complaints about ratings. I've finally came up with a good 'skeleton' for people to follow so there aren't so many hurt feelings:
    5 -- Pure Gold
    4 -- Great point
    3 -- Good point/neat reply
    2 -- 'Normal' comment/slightly Inane
    1 -- Inane/noise comment
    0 -- Spam

    Also, it should be emphasized that ratings on a website should not be taken very seriously and two wrongs don't make a right .. hopefully this will reduce the instances of people getting really hurt over a rating, and reduce the number of people who go and start rating low all the comments from a person they think has hurt them.

    Another thing is that some people are more liberal with 'steering' ratings. These are ratings which are at an extereme (1 or 5) in order to get a rating closer to the ratees desired level (usually midrange).

    Steering ratings tend to average out over time at a different rate than just rating to the decided level, which is why I don't do it myself (unless a comment has been unfairly lowered into the depths of < 1.0.. then I steer it up to the low 1s for more people to see/rate).



    --
    [ イノシロ ]
    Round 2 (4.75 / 4) (#35)
    by eann on Fri Dec 29, 2000 at 02:57:32 PM EST

    Looks great, Farl. Yes, it took me a significant part of yesterday morning to find all of that. Maybe I'm feeling guilty about not participating as much the last few weeks or something. Anyway, as I read through it again, I saw a couple more typos (with section headers this time)...

    Account Questions

    After that list, "(see our "What is your privacy policy?"), nor will this email be" doesn't need the "our", but should have "address" after "email".

    Is "Once you have set up your account, you can log in on the right side of the Kuro5hin.org home page by entering your username and the password that was provided to you." any clearer?

    "How do I modifying..." doesn't need the "ing".

    Password info's still not quite right--it still looks like K5 sends your old password to you. We can't do that because we only store it encrypted. We set a new random password and email that to you.

    Article Submission Questions

    There's not actually a section called "What is article moderation"; you probably meant the main heading "Article Moderation".

    If you're going to keep the strong warning about grammar and spelling, please mention editors@kuro5hin.org to help assuage potential fears of those who aren't confident in their English skills.

    #8 of the "important items to remember" needs "the" inserted as the third-from-last word.

    MLP Section description: "... It is basically pointing that someone else's ..." was probably supposed to have "out" after "pointing".

    In the ways to tell if my story has been posted or dumped, #2, "aware" doesn't need a comma after it.

    In the resubmit info, "Of this" should be "Of these".

    Article Moderation

    Capitalization of "front" and "section" is inconsistent in the descriptions of "+1 Front" and "+1 Section". If it were up to me, I'd make 'em lower case, so I wouldn't have to to tweak all the stuff above about moderation, too.

    Adding a comment is not just like submitting a story if it's so much easier in the next phrase. Lose the "just".

    Once it's posted, you can only write topical comments. Of course, that hasn't stopped anyone yet from posting editorial stuff anyway. Or, what about stories like this one where topical comments are editorial? :)

    In the body of a comment (#4), "PLAINE" has an extra letter. See if you can find it.

    Both here and above, it could be mentioned (check with the cabal first) that all associated closing tags are also allowed.

    Legal Issues

    Let's establish a style: she's always referred to formally as "Mrs. Edna Graustein", even when we're asking who she is. Informally, of course, she's just Edna.

    While it's arguably correct to say "our largest DoS attacks", because it wasn't actually a single incident, I think we can use the singular "attack" generically to mean the whole bad time of it this summer.

    So Now What?

    Make me lowercase in the credits. [And thanks for listing me. And you're welcome for the help.]


    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

    $email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


    Interface preferences options (3.00 / 2) (#36)
    by mrBlond on Fri Dec 29, 2000 at 04:06:41 PM EST

    I'm too tired to read the FAQ to find out where to ask this, so here goes: where can I ask that the "Interface preferences"'s "Your time zone:" drop down list have a list of GMT-x and GMT+x, and [CAT] Central African?
    --
    Inoshiro for cabal leader.
    *** MAJOR UPDATE *** (4.25 / 4) (#37)
    by farl on Sun Dec 31, 2000 at 04:43:06 AM EST

    Major update done. www.sketchwork.com/k5


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    another one... with more goodies (3.00 / 2) (#38)
    by farl on Sun Dec 31, 2000 at 05:47:16 AM EST

    Added some more pics in and some more text on some obvious things that we take for granted, but still need to be in the faq.


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    [ Parent ]
    Some minor editorial stuff: (4.00 / 2) (#39)
    by elenchos on Tue Jan 02, 2001 at 09:57:33 AM EST

    On the "allowable HTML", could you link to a page (or make one) that givea a quick HOWTO on those particular tags, as opposed to tutorial on the whole of HTML. I have no idea how many K5 users would need this help, probably very few. On the other hand, by not providing it, maybe some poeple are being scared away. Maybe such people should be scared awyay...

    In What is comment rating? "...an answer to some question phrased" is awkward. Better to write "...some question posed" or "...some question asked."

    Since Steering Ratings is mentioned, and then right after that is points out that you can go back and change your rating, should the connection beteween these two things be made explicit? If you try to steer a rating one way, and then it gets there, and then overshoots because of your steering, you can go back and fix it. After doing this a couple times, the law of averages will be vindicated, and you will hopefully learn to just rate a post at what you think it should be, and not waste time with steering and correcting. Maybe suggest trying it yourself to see.

    I will have more to say, but I have to go now. I have jury duty. Yes, real Jury Duty. Wish me luck.

    Adequacy.org

    Don't mind if I do ... (3.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Aidan_Kehoe on Thu Jan 04, 2001 at 01:02:55 PM EST

    Please feel free to correct spelling, grammer, layout, style, whatever.

    The spelling of grammar is wrong in the introduction :-)

    --
    There is no TRUTH. There is no REALITY. There is no CONSISTENCY. There are no ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS. I'm very probably wrong. -- BSD fortune(6)

    hehe thanks (3.00 / 1) (#41)
    by farl on Thu Jan 04, 2001 at 01:19:01 PM EST

    yeah i know. it has been pointed out below in earlier comments too. I spent too much time checking the FAQ to really care to pay attention to the post. oh well.


    Farl
    k5@sketchwork.com
    www.sketchwork.com
    [ Parent ]
    K5 FAQ and DOC pt2 | 41 comments (40 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
    Display: Sort:

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