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[P]
What Now?

By cesarb in Meta
Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 09:37:13 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Now, after months of anxious waiting, kuro5hin is back. But there is something missing. No, it's not anonymous submissions. It's not the banner ads. It's the meta discussions. So, I am submitting this story as a "fill in your complaint" one. Didn't like the left column? (I personally hated it.) Think having "Rate All" everywhere is ridiculous? (I do.) Tell everybody about it here.


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Display: Sort:
What Now? | 54 comments (53 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
Rant? (3.33 / 9) (#1)
by BrettJB on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 07:42:19 PM EST

My first pass through this had me thinking, "another rant..." But I think that the basic idea is relevant and worthy of discussion. k5 has changed, and not everyone is going to like it.

But rather than just a bunch of "This sux d00d!", please explain what you don't like and why you don't like it. Suggest possible improvements. New tools are cool, but sometimes they take a bit of time before you get comfortable with using them.

Personally, I don't like the left column either: too cluttered, and it takes up more valuable screen real estate, causing more stories to drop below. In and of itself that won't stop me from seeing all the stories (I do know how to scroll a window...) but I would like to get as much on the first page as possible. It's why I killed /boxes on my /. account.

Anyone else have suggestions for improvement?



Re: Rant? (4.25 / 4) (#4)
by cesarb on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 08:02:20 PM EST

OK, so I will explain.

The left column causes a "clutter" effect that makes harder to find where's what you are looking for (you have to do two visual scans to cover both columns instead of just one).

I believe it's useful, but only if it's customizable (so you *know* what to expect there). Else, you can't expect it to stay how it is now (it might be changed anytime).

As for the "Rate Now" proliferation... Well, it's even more silly than the three duplicate "Preview" buttons. They are *very* powerful, but confusing for the novices. Again, Preferences time...

[ Parent ]
Nitpick (4.20 / 15) (#3)
by cygnus on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 07:57:53 PM EST


On the sign-in form, the "Mail Password" is above the
'Okay' button. If you enter your info and then press
enter (Which I'm in the habit of doing) then it mails
you your password.

Other than that I like the layout. It has a very "clean" feel to it. I dig it.
Sigs are like opinions. Everyone has one and yours probably sucks.
Hmm... (4.60 / 10) (#5)
by Zarniwoop on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 08:07:46 PM EST

I think it's a couple of things...

  • Many new people all at once
  • Stories with not much discussion value being voted in
  • That damn left column ;)

    Everybody who is new to the site will get used to it, eventually. For the stories, things *really* need to be voted into catagories-- not everything should be on the front page, and much of what I've seen is of the "heres a link about $TOPIC, what do you think" type- more of a MPL. We need more thought put into the writeup on the stories, and more stuff that has good discussion value.

    And that damn left bar. Is there any way we can put everything on the right, like on the old k5? Ok, so it's not that important... :)

  • Re: Hmm... (4.16 / 6) (#7)
    by aphrael on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:22:48 PM EST

    I think it's a couple of things... Many new people all at once

    There's definitely a truth to this. Whether it's because of the publicity on slashdot drawing in new people, or even if it's just old people being reminded about K5 after they took a look at it and forgot, the community today is different from what it was in July --- and so there's going to be a strange period as things settle out and we discover what, exactly, it has become. Hopefully we can keep the things that were cool about the old K5 as we morph into the new one. :)



    [ Parent ]
    Re: Hmm... (3.20 / 5) (#18)
    by BlaisePascal on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 10:09:15 AM EST

    I for one have been hanging back, not reading K5 as much as I did in Before The Fall. I'm waiting for the place to calm down some. Right now, it's just way to busy for me to deal with. Once the rush is over, I'll probably enjoy it as well as I did before.

    [ Parent ]
    What about a k5 section? (4.10 / 10) (#6)
    by zaugg on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 08:59:08 PM EST

    Seems to me that there will always be meta-discussion about k5. Often, as the author of another article in the submission queue alluded, this discussion can take place in the threads attached to regular articles.

    As is evidenced by this my post, these discussions can also take place during discussions in the submission queue.

    Perhaps a more appropriate place would be in stories posted in a k5 section. I'm reluctant to vote for this article, or those like it, but I would consider voting them to a k5 section.

    Oh well, enough meta-meta-discussion for now.


    --zaugg

    .sig free for eight months!

    Re: What about a k5 section? (3.66 / 3) (#20)
    by El Volio on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 10:39:10 AM EST

    Personally, I think the scoop site is a more appropriate place to discuss these technical aspects of the site (I want to have more control over the layout when I visit the site, etc.) Things like the /.ization of the site for the last two days (short submissions with no discussion, etc.) and other, non-technical discussions about the site itself do belong here, though.

    [ Parent ]
    Kuro5hin Usability. (4.00 / 9) (#8)
    by driph on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:28:09 PM EST

    Hey all..

    Would love to hear all your gripes, suggestions and praise for the new look & interface, so yes, please post them here.

    Remember, the new look is just that...brand new.. this is the first time it's been really put to use, and any usability issues are going to start popping out now. Some are flaws, some are just different than what you're used to with the site. But we won't be able to address any of em if you don't let us know about your experiences with the new system.



    --
    Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
    Re: Kuro5hin Usability. (4.16 / 6) (#10)
    by Zarniwoop on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:37:36 AM EST

    Two things that I've noticed...

    First off: The bar on the left. It makes the layout feel cramped or overly cluttered. Don't know exactly why.

    And secondly: The big blue section box on the upper left. It makes it feel really heavy. God, I'm going to come off like an interior decorator on this one... But maybe a grey box like the "extra" box of the old K5. Someone mirrored a page here that shows what I'm talking about.


    Yeah. Picking nits. But these things would make me feel right at home. The left and right bars seem like they could be condensed into one to make a less cluttered feel. Kinda like they still have over at scoop.kuro5hin.org. Again, just my personal prefs...

    [ Parent ]

    Re: Kuro5hin Usability. (2.66 / 3) (#30)
    by Zarniwoop on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:44:55 PM EST

    > The big blue section box on the upper left.

    Ack, that shoulda been right. Sorry!

    [ Parent ]

    Re: Kuro5hin Usability. (4.16 / 6) (#16)
    by douglas on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 09:59:20 AM EST

    As a new user, I don't know what kuro5hin.org was like before, but what I -would- appreciate is some more instructions on how to use the site. So far, I've found the FAQ, and the story moderation guidelines, but not much else. It may well be that I simply haven't managed to find them, in which case please point me in the right direction!

    I'm not referring so much to the 'mission' of kuro5hin.org, but the interface details. For example, it seems to me that the voting statistics on stories in the submission queue only become visible once I've voted. I presume this is a feature, but it had me rather confused to start with. Are things like this written down anywhere?

    My apologies if I have failed to spot an obvious 'manual' somewhere :-)
    (I tried looking at scoop.kuro5hin.org but it doesn't seem to respond)

    D

    [ Parent ]
    Re: Kuro5hin Usability. (2.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Zarniwoop on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 12:50:38 PM EST

    Hey, nifty. Looks much better now.

    Thanks!

    [ Parent ]
    Suggestion on "Rate" buttons (3.83 / 6) (#9)
    by Pyro P on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:33:24 PM EST

    Have "Rate" buttons next to each comment and then a "Rate All" button at the beginning and/or end of the comments section. Or don't have "Rate" buttons at all, just "Rate All". (I'm not experienced enough in UI design to figure out which of these would be better.)

    Logic: ease of use (3.75 / 4) (#12)
    by kmself on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 03:05:38 AM EST

    As Rusty's explained, with a "rate all" button on everything, you don't have to scroll up/down page to rate. Though I think K5's looking a little button-happy myself.

    --
    Karsten M. Self
    SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
    Support the EFF!!
    There is no K5 cabal.
    [ Parent ]

    Section Votes (4.00 / 6) (#11)
    by shonson on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:41:08 AM EST

    I would love to be able to see how many votes there have been to post to section, and how many for front page. Instead of just total votes for. Also the ability to reorganise the left and right bar, I would love to get rid of everything from the left bar, and move votes over to the right one.
    -- Steven in #kuro5hin
    Invalid comments (3.25 / 8) (#13)
    by spiralx on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 04:33:37 AM EST

    Just a niggle, but when you post a comment and you've done something wrong (such as not choosing Editorial/Topical for instance) you can't see what went wrong because the error is at the top of the page and your view is still at the bottom of the page. This may just be browser specific (I'm on IE here) but it's still fairly annoying...

    Aaah, such pettiness :)


    You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey

    Re: Invalid comments (none / 0) (#31)
    by cesarb on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:29:47 PM EST

    The same happens with Mozilla.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: Invalid comments (4.00 / 2) (#37)
    by bmetzler on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 03:24:18 PM EST

    Just a niggle, but when you post a comment and you've done something wrong (such as not choosing Editorial/Topical for instance) you can't see what went wrong because the error is at the top of the page and your view is still at the bottom of the page. This may just be browser specific (I'm on IE here) but it's still fairly annoying...

    It's because that particular page has an anchor in it, yet the error is spewed out at the top of the page in blazing red, just like it is everywhere else.

    -Brent
    www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
    [ Parent ]
    Mail Password/Login (4.00 / 13) (#14)
    by smoog on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 07:36:16 AM EST

    On the front page login section having the "Mail Password" button followed by "Login" button is a bad idea, it should be the reverse.

    With web forms most websites have the first button as the main action button. People are used to clicking the first button without having to pay much attention to it, which in the case of k5 will send me a new password :(

    LYNX!!! (2.88 / 9) (#15)
    by dabadab on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 09:50:12 AM EST

    Would love to see a lynx-optimised version (something like /. lite)
    (Or I am the only one who prefers lynx over graphical browsers? (yeah that's right, I PREFER lynx, and although I have a running Netscape here (for all those javascript-using pages) I still want to use lynx))
    --
    Real life is overrated.
    Re: LYNX!!! (3.33 / 3) (#22)
    by fluffy grue on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 11:16:21 AM EST

    Ever consider w3m? It's much nicer overall... even though there's a few issues with its interface, w3m supports tables (and does a very good job of formatting them, in fact), it supports viewing images, it supports libgpm-based mouse support (even in an xterm), and for textboxes it brings up your preferred editor rather than forcing you to fit everything into 5 or 6 lines (which also means it's much easier to just load in some other text file).

    On the whole, I like w3m much better than lynx. That said, I usually just use Netscape with javascript disabled. :)
    --
    "Is not a quine" is not a quine.
    I have a master's degree in science!

    [ Hug Your Trikuare ]
    [ Parent ]

    Re: LYNX!!! (3.25 / 4) (#29)
    by Vetinari8 on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:27:39 PM EST

    The libgpm mouse support only applies to the console. Ncurses handles the mouse support in the xterm.

    I also like w3m better. AFAIR, the Lynx people, whenever bothered with the issue of supporting tables "better" (a la w3m) usually said that it couldn't be done and was too hard. This was before w3m and before even Opera's amazing little text browser.

    But I digress quite a lot. :)

    --
    The world really isn't any worse. It's just that the news coverage
    is so much better.

    [ Parent ]

    Re: LYNX!!! (3.33 / 3) (#24)
    by Erf on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 11:52:04 AM EST

    Yay, Lynx! So many people can't understand why Lynx is so great. (Granted, I'm using Netscape right now, but with images and JavaScript turned off, dammit!) The most obvious reason is that it's a standard interface for FreeNets/CommunityNets to use. And it's very, very fast. (I've got to try out that w3m that fluffy grue mentions...)

    I, too, would like a "K5 Lite" display option, even though I usually use Netscape -- I read /. in that mode, as well. For one thing, since it's not in a table the whole page renders faster, and in pieces. For another thing, it's so much cleaner.

    Just my thoughts.

    -Erf.
    ...doin' the things a particle can...
    [ Parent ]

    Re: LYNX!!! (2.00 / 1) (#41)
    by smoog on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 05:28:20 PM EST

    Lynx = outdated (get with it - surely you know that using the latest technologies for the sake of it is the purpose of computing? ;)

    w3m = haven't used it enough to comment

    links = oh man, you wanna try this if you're going to look at w3m, it displays frames in the console and everything - really fast and streamlined - go to freshmeat.net and do a search for it (what are you still doing reading this - go now - download - compile - be amazed!)

    [ Parent ]
    My Little Beef... (3.83 / 12) (#17)
    by Mr. Penguin on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 10:08:32 AM EST

    The one beef that I have about kuro5hin is that my cookies don't seem to last very long. It seems that they have been set to expire after only twenty-four hours. It's not a terrible thing, just a bit annoying that I have to log in every morning

    To Rusty, Inoshiro, and the other guys: Great job! I'm glad that the site is back, because it's been a stale couple of months without real discussion!



    Re: My Little Beef... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Inoshiro on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 11:38:56 AM EST

    That was a dropped session db resulting from our panic over a certain incident..

    Don't worry, it shouldn't happen again.



    --
    [ イノシロ ]
    [ Parent ]
    "Rate All" buttons (3.88 / 9) (#19)
    by billnapier on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 10:27:43 AM EST

    I had this same problem in the old k5. I would be reading along a page, select a commnet to rate, click on the rate button (or now the "rate all" button), and my rating will be recorded, and I would be all the way at the top of the page again! It would be nice to have the "rate" button bring you back to the comment you were reading (with some kind of #tag or something).

    Re: "Rate All" buttons (3.50 / 2) (#32)
    by hattig on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:37:23 PM EST


    If I recall correctly, the old Kuro5hin did that fine - when I moderated a comment, when the page reloaded, I would be taken to the correct place on the page. It did this in both Netscape and IE, so I don't know what the problem was.

    I am happier with the Rate All option now, as that means I can rate a lot of messages at once. There are a lot of buttons though, as a lot of people mention, and the button is very large for my tastes. Maybe Rusty should add this to his stylesheet:

    input.rate {font-size:8pt}
    ...
    <input class="rate"...>

    Which would improve the look in a lot of browsers, if not older Netscape versions.

    Maybe do the same for the selects. At least it isn't like Slashdot where >100 comments in moderation mode will just mess up IE like birdsh*t messes up you hair.



    [ Parent ]

    Re: "Rate All" buttons (4.00 / 1) (#42)
    by billnapier on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 05:29:41 PM EST

    It may have (I have a bad memory sometimes. Ok, most of the time), but it definately doesn't work today. I hit the rate all button and my URL is just http://www.kuro5hin.org/ and I'm at the top of the page. Just a pet peeve of mine...

    [ Parent ]
    Re: "Rate All" buttons (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by rusty on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 11:39:42 AM EST

    Um, my bad. I did fix this on the old code, and then managed to unfix it with the "rate all" update.

    Y'know, thinking about it now, this would be hard to do with the new system. The way I did it before was that each "rate" form was it's own little form, with ACTION="/#cid", so you'd return to your spot. Now the whole page is one form, with separate items for each comment. So, how would I set the form to return to where you were? How can it even know where you were anymore?

    Anyway, the idea behind the new system is that you just set the ratings as you read, and submit when you're done. There's no need to rate one at a time anymore, so is it a real issue?

    ____
    Not the real rusty
    [ Parent ]

    Re: "Rate All" buttons (none / 0) (#52)
    by billnapier on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 03:34:58 PM EST

    Hmmmm. I have to admit that its been a while since I've played around with CGI and forms, so I'm sure someone can either point out: why this won't work, or how to make it work better, but here's my idea:

    Each rate button currently is something like:
    <INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME="rate" VALUE="Rate All">

    Would changing it to something like:
    <INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME="rate-cid" VALUE="Rate All">

    allow you to tell which rate button was pressed? Don't really have the time to play around and see if I could get it working, plus I don't know the scoop code at all (maybe I should change that?).

    I guess this is all a case of getting used to the new way of doing something...

    [ Parent ]
    UI comments (3.50 / 4) (#21)
    by eann on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 11:14:19 AM EST

    I don't mind the left column. Given the multiply-crosslinked nature of running a site with sections, I think it works well. I keep my browser window open to about 800 pixels across, and the center column is readable and not very much longer than the other two. There's always going to be float, based on the length of the lead-in paragraphs and the number of stories.

    I don't like the login interface. "Mail Password" shouldn't even be a button on the home page; it should be relegated to a separate page. And, as someone pointed out, the login seems to expire quicker than it used to. For my purposes, I'm only here from either of two computers, rarely anywhere else, and even less often does someone other than me use either computer. A "remember me" option in the prefs would definitely assist my laziness. :)

    I never liked the prominence of the article-rating box when it didn't mean much, so I learned (unfortunately) to skip over it. I hardly see it these days, so I'm not bothered by "Rate All". If I can train myself to start using it, I think I'd probably prefer a single button, or at least fewer of them. Or maybe incorporate the Reply/Rate stuff into each comment's titlebox rather that at the bottomn. I'd have to play with it and see what works.

    Obligatory political .pseudo-sig:
    The current government is unsafe at any speed.

    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

    $email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


    On the columns (4.00 / 4) (#23)
    by pwhysall on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 11:18:00 AM EST

    I like the columns. However I think that you need some form of visual separation, either in the form of different coloured backgrounds (ick) or a column divider in the gutter.

    On a meta-meta-discussion note, I think there's mileage in separating discussions about formatting, technical issues ("page X doesn't render on VMSzilla") and content into their own areas. We did this over at IWETHEY and it helps to focus discussion.
    --
    Peter
    K5 Editors
    I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
    CheeseBurgerBrown

    Re-sort the left column (3.50 / 6) (#25)
    by Erf on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:01:01 PM EST

    I have no problem with the left column's existance (except that, as mentioned in another comment, "K5 Lite" mode would be very nice) or content, but I have a suggestion: put the "Recent Section Stories" block at the top of the column. That would make it much easier to spot new stories that didn't wind up on the front page.

    -Erf.
    ...doin' the things a particle can...

    "comment header(?)" outline color (3.00 / 4) (#26)
    by mac on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:01:55 PM EST

    I'm new to K5 so I haven't seen much of the previous interface. I've been wondering what the colour of the outline of each box means, the box where the comment subject and author are given. Most are bluish, but a few are in red. I haven't seen anything about this in either the FAQ or the "Welcome back" story...

    Re: "comment header(?)" outline color (4.00 / 3) (#27)
    by billnapier on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:10:38 PM EST

    I don't know if its posted anywhere, but the "blue" border indicates a "topical comment" (on the topic of the post), while the red border indicates a "editorial comment" (on the post itself).

    [ Parent ]
    Story submission/moderation UI (3.33 / 6) (#28)
    by eann on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:11:54 PM EST

    The submission preview and moderation views of a story should have some kind of visual distinction between the "intro copy" and the "extended copy". Maybe an HR half the width of the text, or something like that, just to let us know what's what.

    This was annoying to me before, but there were significantly fewer stories in moderation back then.

    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

    $email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


    "0 new" (3.00 / 1) (#33)
    by cesarb on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 02:30:30 PM EST

    I think that "0 new" should be "0 unmoderated". If I submit a story, it's new, but it's not unmoderated.

    Re: "0 new" (3.00 / 2) (#36)
    by bmetzler on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 03:18:12 PM EST

    I think that "0 new" should be "0 unmoderated". If I submit a story, it's new, but it's not unmoderated.

    New means new to moderate. If you have 0 that you can vote on, then there is 0 new.

    -Brent
    www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
    [ Parent ]
    "That damn left column"... (4.66 / 3) (#34)
    by Michael Leuchtenburg on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 02:36:48 PM EST

    "That damn left column" is definitely annoying to me, as a new user. I hate it when sites are wider than an 800 pixel-wide browser can deal with, as that's my preferred width. Also, the left column doesn't provide any content that's useful to me. A headline, with no description, isn't going to lure me in. I'm not even going to bother looking at it.

    I'd much rather not have it at all. It just contributes to the clutter.

    The only thing in the left column that I like is the poll, and that would fit in nicely on the right side. Of course, that would put it away from the top, but do you really need to see the poll every single time you look at the front page? I don't. I only need to see each poll a couple of times: once to vote, and once or twice after to check the results and read/comment in the discussion.

    Make the bad scary column go away!

    [ #k5: dyfrgi ]
    [ TINK5C ]

    Re: "That damn left column"... (4.00 / 2) (#40)
    by diskore on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 05:07:15 PM EST

    I kinda like the left column. It's only on the front page (as far as I can tell). I think the front page layout does a good job of presenting a lot of info without looking too cluttered.. though maybe the 'security matters' and 'linux bookshelf' elements could be (re)moved to another location... hmm well if that were to happen then I suppose you could just move the poll and section elements to the right column. Then there would be more of an emphasis on the front page stories... OK now that I think about it, we could do without the left column.

    [ Parent ]
    Rating doesn't work in polls (4.66 / 3) (#35)
    by cesarb on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 02:49:45 PM EST

    Using the "Rate All" in a poll attached to a story causes a "this poll doesn't exist" error.

    "Morgue" to accompany "Hotlist" (4.80 / 5) (#38)
    by kmself on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 04:39:05 PM EST

    I'm hoping it's only a temporary phenomenon....

    What I'd like to see is an "add to morgue" type option, somewhat like "hotlist", except that it takes a story off the front page. Down the road this could evolve into a story ranking system helping determine placement on front page.

    I also suspect that the posting criteria might need some tightening up. I think we're seeing too much content -- I'd prefer less.

    --
    Karsten M. Self
    SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
    Support the EFF!!
    There is no K5 cabal.

    My $0.02 (plus $15.00 S+H, and $3.96 WA sales tax) (3.75 / 4) (#39)
    by Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 04:41:09 PM EST

    1c: The left bar is annoying and must be killed for the good of humanity. Please merge the essential bits with the right-side bar. I'm not really enthusiastic about any multi-column web page: paper and other static displays should have layouts, but web pages work best as vertically linear scrolls.

    2c: The login button defaulting to "mail password" is definitely a Bad Thing.

    3c: The polls don't have the nested/etc. option buttons like regular topics. Inconsistent user interfaces are, again, Bad Things.

    Other than those, I've few complaints yet (I may bitch about the rating system, or may not...)


    -- Mark Hughes
    New comments (4.00 / 3) (#43)
    by diskore on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 06:10:37 PM EST

    I would *really* like to see a feature that shows how many new posts have been posted since my last session (n comments, x new).

    Another little idea (4.40 / 5) (#44)
    by ramses0 on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 06:30:27 PM EST

    Have a small queue of "recently deceased stories" in the moderation queue. Or at least have links to the last few stories that got voted down when you "submit new story".

    That way, if 10 mp3 stories have gotten voted down very quickly, when somebody else comes and tries to post an mp3 story, they might see that a lot of the other mp3 stories were voted down and act accordingly.

    ...I'm still waiting for my 'site wide hotlist' idea: a box saying:

    Hottest stories on K5
    ----------------
    
    • Who are you (176 hotlistings, 118 comments)
    • Things I learned from the RustyCam (54 hotlistings, 95 comments)
    • The evils of M$ (26 hotlistings, 112 comments)
    • ...

    This being a little barometer of interest for stories, as well as a method to promote further discussion of stories, after they've fallen off the front page.

    --Robert
    [ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]

    customizability (4.66 / 3) (#45)
    by goosedaemon on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 07:01:07 PM EST

    I think that the columns should be customizable. Like, if I like Inoshiro's Security Matters stuff, I can have his item from the left column on the right column, and remove the left column entirely. One might also argue for customizable colors, but that might make the user data take up a sizable chunk of space more than they do now...

    my two cents (4.25 / 4) (#46)
    by nevauene on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 09:33:55 PM EST

    First of all, I agree wholeheartedly that the left column is an eyesore - really it's about the only thing I don't like about the new k5. I'd definately be happy to see an option in Display Preferences to get rid of it or merge it's content into the right column.

    Alot of people seem to be complaining about the new users and the s/n ratio going all to hell, but I think there's a bit of exaggeration in that.. k5 and That Other Site are still worlds apart. One has hundreds of comments a story, the majority of them rhetorical attacks on straw men and each other, trolls, etc. The other has a modest 20-50 comments to a story, most of them of a high caliber. Not to mention that people who disagree ideologically seem to be alot more civil and open-minded to each other here. Go ahead and tell me it's wrong to say such 'inflammatory' things about The Other Site here, it's still true.

    One idea I had for a feature, which may appropriately sound a bit too over-the-top for most people's liking, is this: offer a small perl utility that can poll a scoop site periodically and get information sent back to it. No, not headlines. What I think would be really cool is to have a small utility that tells you when a message you've wrote has been replied to. IE:

    Grizzle replied to "What Now / my two cents": 10:41:20 pm

    If there was any interest in it, it could help to keep the discussions moving more fluidly and leaving fewer replies with valid criticisms flapping in the wind forever because the replied-to person never really bothered to check for replies.. which happens all too often methinks.

    Just something I'd like to see implemented anyhow, feel free to poke holes in it or offer a better solution. I think there are lots of interesting possibilities in weblog design that could be unlocked by having some kind of optional semi-stated connection alongside the stateless pulling / putting of HTML.


    There is no K5 Cabal.
    Re: my two cents (3.50 / 2) (#47)
    by Dacta on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 02:38:54 AM EST

    That info is already in your user info.

    Now if K5/Scoop published that information as RSS or in some XML based format.... hmm.. I can see some potential there!



    [ Parent ]
    Serving Images (2.00 / 1) (#50)
    by MonkeyMagic on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 11:56:51 AM EST

    Please do something about putting the images which are vital to the look of the site (e.g. http://209.208.150.46/lidisc.gif) on the same server as the actual site (www.kuro5hin.org) so that those of us who for privacy reasons turn off allowing images not from the originating server can still look at the cool look you have spent so much time on.

    Re: Serving Images (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by rusty on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 08:02:40 PM EST

    Images are actually served from the same physical machine. They have their own IP because Scoop is a mod_perl application. It would be silly to run 100 fat mod_perl httpd's just to serve images-- basically, we couldn't do it. Images have their own apache process, which is just compiled to serve static content.

    If you are sophisticated enough to turn off offsite images, I assume you can also reenable them for specific IP's? 209.208.150.46 serves all of our images, and none of them are bugged. Basically, I can't do nothing for you-- performance would suffer tremendously if I didn't have it set up the way I do.

    ____
    Not the real rusty
    [ Parent ]

    Story rating suggestions (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by sab39 on Fri Sep 22, 2000 at 01:59:59 PM EST

    Here's a proposal for a change to the story rating interface to address a couple of issues that I see with it right now:
    - There's no way to handle stories that are mis-sectionned by their authors. Such stories shouldn't "post to section" OR post to front page, but neither should they be dumped (they should be re-routed to a different section).
    - If a large number of people like an article, but want to see it revised, all they can vote is to dump it, and hope the author notices their editorial comments and makes the necessary revisions. See the (rapidly fading) "The community, beyond technology" article in the queue right now. It seems that the vast majority like the article in general, but want to see some (fairly minor) changes. For that reason, it's getting close to being dumped completely.

    My proposed interface:

    [Front page (+1)] | [Section (+1)] | [Don't care (0)] | [Dump (-1)] | [Revise (-1)]

    Section: [Meta] | [Tech] | [Culture] | ...

    By allowing people to vote for a section separately from their post/dump decision, posts that are mis-sectionned get transparently moved to the right section. The final choice of section would be whichever gets more votes, but the selectbox would default to what the poster chose, so it will only move if enough people consciously decide it should be somewhere else. Examples where this would be especially useful would be voting something across to Rants or MLP, but it would be useful for almost all sections (I've seen stories in Technology that I would have placed in Culture, for example, and I've seen editorial comments suggesting moving various stories to DiD). This would move the choice of section from an author-only decision to a community decision.

    The [Revise] choice would count only against posting, not in favor of dumping. A story would never get dumped from the submission queue based on votes for [Revise]. In addition, the author would be able to see somehow that a large number of [Revise] votes had been made. The author can then revise the posting based on suggestions, in which case everyone who voted [Revise] will see the posting as New again. They can then change their vote from [Revise], if they want (or leave it as [Revise] to ask for further revisions).

    Votes for [Revise] would have to stay in place until the voter changes them manually, because if all [Revise] votes were removed as soon as the story were revised, it is likely that the story would automatically post itself (imagine a story with 150 "post" and 200 revise...) regardless of whether the revisions were enough to satisfy the people who asked for them.

    Thoughts? Comments? Are these dumb ideas?

    Stuart.
    --
    "Forty-two" -- Deep Thought
    "Quinze" -- Amélie

    What Now? | 54 comments (53 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
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