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A Public Plea.

By Captain_Tenille in Meta
Fri Jan 12, 2001 at 08:19:05 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)

I've been noticing a trend here at kuro5hin as of late, a trend that seems to be worse in the Diaries section, but shows up occasionally in the submissions queue as well.

I speak of the tragedy of putting your entire story in the intro box.

Please, please, please!! I hate saying this over and over, but I hate seeing it even more. If your story is more than a paragraph or two (and reasonably sized paragraphs, at that), put everything that isn't in said first one or two paragraphs in the main body!

Please?? For the poor, starving k5 users?

Anybody who spends any amount of time on k5 knows that proper spelling, grammar, and formatting are essential to getting a story posted to either a section or to the front page. Stories that fail to meet any one of these standards are usually voted down into oblivion. With the diaries, though, it's a little different. Since it's not subject to peer review, your spelling and grammar can be as atrocious as you like. Unfortunately, many people also neglect to follow the standards of formatting.

I'm not singling anybody out here, but I believe that it is a simple matter of courtesy to other users not to hog all the space on the Diaries page with your entry.

Does this bother anyone else? What standards do you feel are most appropriate for stories and diaries to adhere to on kuro5hin?


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How much text should be in the intro?
o One Paragraph. 43%
o Two Paragraphs. 20%
o The Entire Story. 1%
o The Complete Works of Shakespeare. 21%
o Inoshiro. And Only Inoshiro. 13%

Votes: 122
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Kuro5hin
o Also by Captain_Tenille

Display: Sort:
A Public Plea. | 18 comments (13 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
agreed, but how about enforcing it (4.28 / 7) (#1)
by enterfornone on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 06:50:39 PM EST

It would be nice if scoop enforced this somehow. For those who read scoop.kuro5hin.org I wrote this ages ago.

efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
Technical problem (3.75 / 4) (#3)
by kmself on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 07:00:00 PM EST

The mechanisms exist, in both HTML and CGI, to enforce this policy. Scoop/K5 are broken in that they do not do this. This has been requested of / suggested to Rusty repeatedly.

Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

How long? (4.00 / 2) (#5)
by rusty on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 07:29:02 PM EST

What I don't know is, how long should the intro be? TEXTAREA doesn't have a size restiction attribute (AFAIK?), so it'd have to be filtered in the code. So, first we have to determine what the maximum length of an intro should be, then the code will need to parse out HTML tags, and count the rest of the text to see if it's too long.

So, what's the right length? The main reason I've held off on this is that I have no idea how long stuff should be. I've always thought that voters would vote stories down for having too much in the intro (which they do). Diaries circumvent this, since they're non-voted, but I haven't considered it a serious pressing issue. If it is, then basically, how long should intro's be, max?

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Possible suggestion? (3.50 / 2) (#6)
by Captain_Tenille on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 07:37:19 PM EST

I kind of think roblimo's recent story is just about the ideal length. Not set in stone or anything, but the intro length there pleases me.
/* You are not expected to understand this. */

Man Vs. Nature: The Road to Victory!
[ Parent ]

coulnd't you just (4.00 / 2) (#7)
by Defect on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 07:41:23 PM EST

add something like this to submit.pm

my @arr = split /\s/, $story->{introtext};

unless(($arr<300 && !$story->{bodytext}) || $story->{bodytext})
push @missing, "extended copy (your intro copy is too long)";

It's crude, but it would work, no? This would make it so that if the user has no extended copy, then anything over 300 "words" wouldn't go through, but if the user has an extended copy, then it could be assumed that whatever is in the intro is justified.

This comment is kind of rushed, as i'm heading out the door, so i'm not sure if i thought the code through enough. (hell, i'm hardly sure what i've written is perl after the day i've had)
defect - jso - joseth || a link
[ Parent ]
I would recommend.... (4.25 / 4) (#8)
by SbooX on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 07:46:28 PM EST

...150-200 words as the maximum length of an intro text. This might be found to need some tweaking though. I would also suggest putting in a character limit to preven some JackassFromRunningHisWordsAllTogetherLikeThisSoThatHeCanSpamTheDiaryPage.

I also think that something needs to be done about the number of diary entries allowed. About a week ago some jackass posted 10 entries in about 20 minutes spamming the diary page. (For the record he did appologize and said he didn't know they would all show up on the new diary page)


god is silly. MGL 272:36
[ Parent ]

What he said (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by kmself on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 09:35:57 PM EST

Something on the order of 100 words, say 600 characters, with neither limit to be exceeded. Tweak over time. Nice-to-have would be to restrict rendered text length, allowing the use of long URLs without imposing a penalty.

Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

not long (4.00 / 2) (#12)
by h2odragon on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 10:19:01 PM EST

4k. just off the top of my head. Take anything over that boundary and put into the body copy by executive fiat.

[ Parent ]
Why not just count paragraphs? (4.00 / 1) (#13)
by Spinoza on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 10:26:57 PM EST

Would it be easier to limit intros to 3 paragraph tags? (or line breaks) That way, there's a looser limit on actually word count. Sure, you could circumvent this by just not using the P or BR tags, but anyone that does this was gonna do something stupid anyway.

[ Parent ]
i have two cents (4.66 / 3) (#14)
by greentea on Fri Jan 12, 2001 at 01:00:42 AM EST

why not make a rule that states that the body has to be more characters than the introduction? If not, the story doens't post and you get the big bold red letters saying that you're performing a k5 faux pas.
I don't think it's such an issue with diaries. In fact, if pressed, i'd say let diaries be as wack as they want them to be. I think that's going witht he spirit of the diary thing.

[ Parent ]
I'll raise you a nickel (4.00 / 1) (#16)
by michaela on Fri Jan 12, 2001 at 12:05:19 PM EST

This is an excellent idea. Couple it with a word limit, say 100-150 words, and it would be perfect.

The problem is that some stories, particularly MLP, are condusive to more text in the intro and less (or none) in the body.

Perhaps an exception for MLP?
That is all
[ Parent ]

Eeew (none / 0) (#17)
by aphrael on Fri Jan 12, 2001 at 04:32:50 PM EST

perhaps an exception for MLP

Eeeew! special-case code! yuck!

[ Parent ]
length of an intro (none / 0) (#10)
by /dev/trash on Thu Jan 11, 2001 at 09:17:10 PM EST

I'd say 50-60 words.

Updated 02/20/2004
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A Public Plea. | 18 comments (13 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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