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[P]
K5 isn't cool anymore.

By Anonymous 6522 in Meta
Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 09:24:43 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

It doesn't have a neat page icon like several other sites.


Right now, K5 is the laughingstock of the entire internet because of its failure to embrace new web standards. We (more specifically Rusty) needs to fix this, and fast! I have saved him from hours and hours of work, by fixing up a kick ass page icon, but I cannot directly alter K5's html. Rusty (or Inoshiro, or one of many other people who aren't me) must do that, so vote correctly, and make sure this comes to the attention of someone who can do something about it!

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Poll
Is K5 cooler than dell.com?
o Yes. 45%
o No. 8%
o I fucking hate Steve. 45%

Votes: 96
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o neat page icon
o several
o other
o sites
o laughingst ock of the entire internet
o I have saved him from hours and hours of work, by fixing up a kick ass page icon
o or one of many other people who aren't me
o Also by Anonymous 6522


Display: Sort:
K5 isn't cool anymore. | 53 comments (53 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Site navigation bar? (3.00 / 3) (#1)
by ggeens on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 03:18:28 AM EST

I'm still on Mozilla 0.9.5, so I hadn't noticed the Other Site had a page icon. (Given the time it took to get 0.9.5 in testing, I'm not hoping on an update very soon.)

One feature that is available in my version, is the site navigation bar. I really like that, and Slashdot uses it for instance. I think it would be useful for k5 as well.

Note: it's disabled by default. Go to: "View -> Show/Hide -> Site Navigation Bar to enable it. (The drawback: it slows down rendering pages.)


L'enfer, c'est les huîtres.


Favicon? (3.50 / 4) (#2)
by driph on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:43:47 AM EST

Are you referring to the favicon.ico? I coulda swore K5 had one at one time, maybe before the downtime.. I remember someone had thrown one together and sent it in..

Of course, I could be pulling false memories out of thin air, my mind tends to do that sometimes.

I like the lil icon you've made, tho. Email rusty or editors@k5 with the link info and I'm sure we'll put it up.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave

Definately not (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by roiem on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 05:49:36 AM EST

The favicon is distinct from the "neat page icon". It is, AFAICT, a Mozilla invention. The main difference is that "neat page icon"s are per-page, while favicons are per site.

K5 has (had?) a favicon, which still shows up on my browser, but that might be because it's cached from before the downtime. In any case, JCB's icon is nicer, IMHO. (The old one was just the letter K).
90% of all projects out there are basically glorified interfaces to relational databases.
[ Parent ]
No... (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 10:07:05 AM EST

I guess they're different things, that Mozilla page I linked to mentions that favicons will be supported in Mozilla 0.9.7.

Anyway, you guys should still use my icon because it's cool.

[ Parent ]

Happy now? (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by rusty on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 11:56:27 AM EST

We do have a favicon.ico. Now we have the page icon thingy too.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Not here you don't (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by DesiredUsername on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 01:05:12 PM EST

I'm still getting the default in the Moz URL bar...

Play 囲碁
[ Parent ]
How about now? (NT) (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by rusty on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 01:16:57 PM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Nope (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by DesiredUsername on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 01:28:03 PM EST

I even tried refreshing. I didn't try the main page, though, because you said the "page icons" were working as well...

Play 囲碁
[ Parent ]
Nope. (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 03:22:25 PM EST

I made a typo on my homepage, it's supposed to be:

<link REL="icon" HREF="http://www.kuro5hin.org/images/tinyk5.png" TYPE="image/png">
<link REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://www.kuro5hin.org/images/tinyk5.png">

[ Parent ]

Well jeez (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by rusty on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:16:44 PM EST

How am I supposed to lazily cut and paste if you don't provide precisely the right instructions? :-)

So, how about now?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

It's good. [nt] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:20:04 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Not cool anymore (3.50 / 2) (#4)
by wiredog on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 08:14:33 AM EST

Do you mean that, at one time, it was?

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
On a complitelty different topic... (2.00 / 1) (#5)
by p0ppe on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 08:53:51 AM EST

still related to K5, though. I really like the the new voxtel logo, perhaps not as much as the old vhosting one, but it's still much beter than it was earlier.


"Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
Weird (3.50 / 2) (#6)
by DesiredUsername on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 09:34:27 AM EST

I just noticed this very thing yesterday.

I've been noticing in my site stats that "favicon.ico" keeps getting a 404. I researched it and found the IE bookmark icon feature. I'm not inclined to help out that stinking pile of garbage so I ignored it.

Then I noticed that Mozilla was displaying an icon in the URL bar. That looked pretty neat so I thought I'd try to convince my wife to find a book-related icon for her site. At least it will cut down on the error messages...

If it is any impetus to Rusty, Slashdot has one...

Play 囲碁

Konq and favicon (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by msphil on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 12:40:49 PM EST

konqueror also supports it.

[ Parent ]
.ico files? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by rusty on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:24:53 PM EST

If anyone feels inclined to, I quite like JCB's little graphic, and I'd like to replace our favicon.ico with it. But I have no idea how to make an .ico file. If anyone does, and wants to convert http://www.kuro5hin.org/images/tinyk5.png to .ico, I'd appreciate it. Just email it to me. And post a reply here if you do, cause otherwise I'll be getting them for the next three years. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
favicon.ico (none / 0) (#38)
by grandpa jive on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 01:13:57 AM EST

as mailed to rusty:

Yer lucky I like yer site so much

ie and some others will barf if it isn't an actual .ico. I installed a bloody windows program to work with it.

its gotta be referenced as favicon.ico

enjoy!

I booted into windows to get this thinger to work.. why? cuz favicons are neet.

--
dave b
co2 - so powerful it can liquify a bass.

[ Parent ]
Thanks grandpa jive! (3.00 / 1) (#41)
by rusty on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 02:12:31 AM EST

You're the jivenest Grandpa a boy ever had.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Oh Yeah. (3.50 / 2) (#8)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 10:47:31 AM EST

Much thanks to Driph (or whoever) for making this logo, that I blatantly stole to use my mad scale & crop skillz on.

My 2c. (3.50 / 2) (#14)
by mcherm on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 01:35:53 PM EST

Hey Rusty: Go for it... it's a good idea.

-- Michael Chermside
The subtle underlying message (3.66 / 3) (#16)
by Wondertoad on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 03:48:50 PM EST

Those who download and run the nightly Mozilla builds are the true Arbiters of Cool on the net.

And it's true. Not only are we talking about favicons in dropdown bookmark menus. We're talking tabbed browsing with ctrl-left-click loading links in new tabs in the background. In the BACKGROUND, did you hear me? You modem users? We're talking total pop-up disabling with no external add-on software. And skins? Forget skins, we're talking themes. We're talking nested folders on the personal toolbar opening just the way you expect. We're talking search queries right in the location bar, keyed to Google if you like. We're talking standards compliance. We're talking 100% free of Outlook viruses, 100% free of IE security holes, 100% free of Passport and all other MS teat-suckyness, and 100% free of charge.


I agree. (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:00:00 PM EST

Tabbed windows kick ass, I don't even had to control-click, I just middle-click.

How do you disable popups? I usually just turn off javascript, but if there was another way that was just a effective, I'd try it.

[ Parent ]

Hell yeah (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by rusty on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:20:00 PM EST

Same with Galeon, and minus all the mozilla cruft too! ;-)

I found that I don't even need to disable javascript or popups, because popups pop in a tab, which I can just close without ever being annoyed by it, or even seeing it.

And "block images from server" in the right-context menu? Oh, my web-browsing life has just gotten so much better recently.

Now, if only someone would come up with a decent IMAP client for linux...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Pine? (none / 0) (#30)
by DesiredUsername on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 07:39:30 PM EST

Pine and IMAP were literally made for each other. I don't use either, but I have (in the process of developing an IMAP server) and it works pretty good. But not graphical, so if that's your definition of "decent" then forget it.

Play 囲碁
[ Parent ]
Disabling popups (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by damiam on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:37:48 PM EST

It's a non-UI preference somewhere on this page. I'm too lazy to copy and paste it (just search for 'popup' and you'll find it).

[ Parent ]
dom.disable_open_during_load (none / 0) (#39)
by cymen on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 01:44:53 AM EST

How do you disable popups? I usually just turn off javascript, but if there was another way that was just a effective, I'd try it.

user_pref("dom.disable_open_during_load", true); in your prefs.js (on Win32 it's in x:\documents and settings\your_login\application data\mozilla\somewhere and linux ~/.mozilla/default/some.random.folder/prefs.js)

[ Parent ]

Oh yeah - only disables popups while... (none / 0) (#40)
by cymen on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 01:46:34 AM EST

This only disables popups on load of the page so you can still have popups when you click on a popup url (at a photography site, etc).

[ Parent ]
Opera (2.50 / 2) (#21)
by ScrO on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 04:21:06 PM EST

You guys should check out Opera 6, it does much of the same. Quite slick. (=

ScrO!

[ Parent ]

Hmmm, how passe ... (1.00 / 2) (#28)
by Rizzen on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 07:18:28 PM EST

... been doing these "fancy, high-tech, ultra-cool" things in Opera since version 3. Big whoop. Can even do it on my Linux and FreeBSD boxes. Wow, an entire browser in less than 3MB? Nah, that can't be a good thing.

Pshaw! You Mozilla weenies amuse me. How long did it take to get a working brower?? Oh, that's right still waiting. :)
----- The years of peak mental activity are undoubtedly those between the ages of 4 and 18. At age four, we know all the questions; at eighteen, we have all the answers. -- unknown
[ Parent ]
A novel, a bad novel. (none / 0) (#32)
by Holloway on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 08:08:00 PM EST

You don't have themes, you don't handle broken sites nearly as well, and your javascript implementation is lacking.

Frankly Chad, I don't know how ever managed to marry Virginia.


== Human's wear pants, if they don't wear pants they stand out in a crowd. But if a monkey didn't wear pants it would be anonymous

[ Parent ]

Who needs themes? (none / 0) (#47)
by Rizzen on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 02:57:35 PM EST

We have skins. :) Although I personnaly don't use them. A browser is simply a tool to me, and I have yet to find a reason to decorate a hammer, screwdriver, or other tool, digital or not. But, that's just me. Keep the graphics small, the memory footprint small, and the speed up, and I'm happy.
----- The years of peak mental activity are undoubtedly those between the ages of 4 and 18. At age four, we know all the questions; at eighteen, we have all the answers. -- unknown
[ Parent ]
Who needs themes? Everyone (none / 0) (#49)
by Wondertoad on Sat Dec 22, 2001 at 03:24:09 PM EST

Because you want to have as much control of your interface as possible. For example, one of the themes dramatically reduced the whitespace around bookmarks. This meant that you could see more of your bookmarks at a time, which in turn meant increased productivity.

I imagine there will be themes for handicapped users, for users who have a tough time with the mouse, for expert users, for fitting precisely into turnkey or dedicated systems, for specific tasks, etc. etc.


[ Parent ]
Laudable goal (none / 0) (#50)
by Rizzen on Sat Dec 22, 2001 at 09:00:12 PM EST

But, why must every piece of software solve all problems in that category? Why must there be one-size-fits-all software? Customisability is a good thing, I agree, I just don't think that a single web browser be used in *every* imaginable situation.

Is there a real difference between skins and themes? Other than terminology. :)

Has the mozilla team tweaked their skin engine to make it run quickly and using minimal resources? I haven't played with Mozilla since around M17 or so. Haven't had much reason to since the release of Opera 4.
----- The years of peak mental activity are undoubtedly those between the ages of 4 and 18. At age four, we know all the questions; at eighteen, we have all the answers. -- unknown
[ Parent ]
The case for themes. (none / 0) (#51)
by Holloway on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 01:22:02 AM EST

Skins only change the graphics. Themes can also change the layout. I think.

Before themes.org went belly up there was a Mozilla theme for beginners (that hasn't yet surfaced again). It had forward/back, stop, reload, and bookmarks. There was no drop-down menu, and the right click only ever did something over links (opening a new window).

As you can imagine this interface was the best thing ever to happen to my parents.

(that said, I think Opera has some theming).


== Human's wear pants, if they don't wear pants they stand out in a crowd. But if a monkey didn't wear pants it would be anonymous

[ Parent ]

Beginner | Intermediate | Expert (none / 0) (#52)
by Holloway on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 01:27:58 AM EST

Now that I think of it I would like some way for an app to query a users ability at the operating system level and change the interface accordingly.

I guess that's the next step, after themes, but I want it now.


== Human's wear pants, if they don't wear pants they stand out in a crowd. But if a monkey didn't wear pants it would be anonymous

[ Parent ]

How to get it to work? (none / 0) (#48)
by Bwerf on Sat Dec 22, 2001 at 02:08:17 AM EST

mozilla 0.9.7 that is, or 0.9.6 for that matter.
Both crashes on startup for me, illegal
instruction(yes you can see I'm stuck with w2k).

[ Parent ]
Works fine for me. (none / 0) (#53)
by nstenz on Mon Dec 31, 2001 at 03:10:47 AM EST

I'm on Win2k running Mozilla 0.9.7+ right now.

If you want to make sure you get a good build, go here: Mozilla Build Comments

[ Parent ]

Anymore? (3.50 / 2) (#24)
by qpt on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 05:30:18 PM EST

K5 was never cool. However, that is not necessarily a bad thing, as there are more important things than being cool.

Unfortunately, K5 is not any of those things either.

Sorry!

Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.

Cool? (2.00 / 3) (#25)
by andkaha on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 06:37:22 PM EST

WTF? Why is it so damn important to be cool?! It's more to a discussion-based site like K5 than having a cool icon...

I would be more than happy if the K5 web developers swithced to using HTML 2.0, or better still, to Gopher. (Do you remeber the Gopher protocol? It was all about contents, and it was all text based with none of this incompatibility crap we have now.)

I'm still in search of a nice news/discussion site that cares more about contents than about appearance.

About that Dell site: Did you read the source of that page? It's far more code than it is contents. Even the the Memepool page, minimalistiic as it may look, is just a complete mess of markup code.

I know I'm getting to old for this crap (I'm 28). I long back to the days when a document was a file of text, and not a conglomerate of loosly connected pieces of files in various nonstandard formats.

--
Remember RFC 1436?

How else would you know? (4.50 / 2) (#31)
by Holloway on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 08:05:15 PM EST

WTF? Why is it so damn important to be cool?!
meh... you wouldn't understand.


== Human's wear pants, if they don't wear pants they stand out in a crowd. But if a monkey didn't wear pants it would be anonymous

[ Parent ]
Question (3.33 / 3) (#26)
by Tachys on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 06:50:22 PM EST

How do I make and put an icon on my web sites?

Can anyone explain or link to info showing how?

Any game that gets banned by the Austrailian govt can't be all bad... - Armaphine


google it! :) (none / 0) (#27)
by cetan on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 07:02:53 PM EST

"favicon"

search and enjoy.

===== cetan www.cetan.com =====
[ Parent ]
www.favicon.com (3.00 / 1) (#36)
by Trickster on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 11:21:22 PM EST

n/t

[ Parent ]
Mirror (3.75 / 4) (#29)
by autopr0n on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 07:18:54 PM EST

here


[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
Colour Scheme (3.00 / 1) (#33)
by locutox on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 09:26:35 PM EST

How can kuro5hin.org not be cool?

Can't you see how much hard work and study the admins have put into designing the site with such a grand choice of colours and fresh cut layout?.

Blue on White = Cool, no doubt about it!

Transitive property (4.80 / 5) (#34)
by jabber on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 10:45:02 PM EST

The theory goes that if A -> B and B -> C then A -> C, so...

since K5 is 'retro' and 'retro' is 'cool' then K5 is 'cool'.

In other words, we don't need no stinking icons.

K5 doesn't need to follow the tail-lights of the other sheep. Yes, these new hi-tech sheep have tail lights, you got a problem with that??? Huh?? I didn't think so.. Anyway, K5 can blaze it's own trail. By popular vote, and if that doesn't go the way *I* want, by user preference customization, K5 can look any way it god damn well pleases, OK???

K5 could take on a white on blue color scheme, and look like the Blue Screen of Death, and it would still be COOL. It could look like the freakin Commodore 64, and still be COOL.

Oh, wait.. That's a pretty slick little icon... Umm, nevermind..

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

trolling, eh? (1.75 / 4) (#35)
by Trickster on Thu Dec 20, 2001 at 11:19:09 PM EST

what does a stupid litle 16x16 pixel icon has to do w/ coolness of k5?

for all i care they can use html 2.0 and k5 will still be cool but if trolls like you gain in numbers here, this site will fly out of my bookmarks even if they use xml w/ xsl.

to summarize, quality of articles, not quality of representation, that's what matters.

tster



Yeah, so? (4.00 / 2) (#37)
by spacefrog on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 01:02:10 AM EST

If design that is easy to read and easy on the eyes coupled with interesting content make K5 'uncool' then so be it. At least the graphic design doesn't scream "I've been staring at video games entirely too long" like that slashdot. If not having a majority of the posts coming from 15-year-old script-kiddies who mock those of us in the real-world who use and develop for Windows. So be it. If not having those damned pop-up or flash ad's makes K5 'uncool', then may the entire web become 'uncool' as quickly as possible. Enough rants for tonight.

Wooha! (5.00 / 2) (#42)
by rusty on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 02:14:19 AM EST

Cool down there, space cowboy. I'm pretty sure the tone of JCB's post was intentionally overhyped for ironic effect.

Deep down, he thinks it's cool too.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Cool Down. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by Anonymous 6522 on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 04:43:54 AM EST

Really, I mean it. It's an 810 byte image. Everything's OK.

I mean it.

Hey, Rusty, don't you think it would be really cool if that box with the Your Comments link was done in java or flash? CmdrTaco would be envious.

[ Parent ]

What is cool? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by pointwood on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 09:04:12 AM EST

Content is what really matters and that is where K5 really shines!

Sites that validates are cool!


--
Pointwood - Folding for the Cause!
http://www.teameggroll.com


I agree with JCB (5.00 / 3) (#45)
by coryking on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 11:17:41 AM EST

K5 is in dire need of a serious graphical overhaul. I think we need to make the new color scheme red white & blue to show our patiotism, and our support for our troops. IT could also serve to remind all the foriegn people who visit this site just who's great country was behind the internet.

I also think we need to get with the times, and change our font to Comic Sans. All the really cool sites are doing it. If only there was a flag related font we could use.

faviconic (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by aquarion on Fri Dec 21, 2001 at 12:02:38 PM EST

There are very good reasons for having a favicon, and it is due to a very simple reason.

In case you hadn't noticed, IE is broken.

Well, sort of. The whole concept of the favicon is, in fact, broken. How does IE/Mozilla/Whatever know you have a favicon (Not sure if Mozilla does this, I know IE does)? It asks the server. And so if you *don't* have a favicon, your log files quickly fill up with 404 errors for favicon.ico.

This means that *real* 404 errors get lost in the noise.

This, obviously, is bad.

So yes, Having a Favicon is a Good Thing :-)
Yours in Total Sincerity, Aquarion. -- Never underestimate the power of a dark clown.
K5 isn't cool anymore. | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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