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[P]
Moderating queue should include intro

By MotorMachineMercenary in Meta
Mon Dec 24, 2001 at 05:58:30 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

I feel that k5 moderating queue should include intro of the story in addition to the title, just like any other page on k5


This would benefit the posters so that they have more than one line of text to motivate people to moderate their story. It would also help readers to decide whether that "In Goes the Weasel!" -story is about a new sexual practice or Weasel video editing tool v. 3.01b.

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Moderating queue should include intro | 24 comments (21 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)
well, i'd disagree (4.33 / 3) (#1)
by 31: on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 02:07:35 AM EST

when the queue is working properly (according to me and seemingly many people here), it should be short enough that going through them all shouldn't take much longer than reading all the intros and deciding from there what to moderate.

Also, with the example of "In Goes the Weasel!", well, is someone's expecting something on the Weasel video editing tool, they should be happy to vote down a story on the sexual practice, and perhaps vice versa.

But then, I also don't think the moderation queue should have topical comments... in my view, it's bad enough that the conversation of k5 happens here sometimes, but to have most of the passive reading happen with a brief perusal of the queue seems like it would be taking it too far.

and someone will mention scoop.kuro5hin.org as the place to mention this, so i may as well do that too :) But even if it was a scoop feature, i don't think it would be appropriate here. Regardless, I voted +1, so good or ill, other people can give their input.

-Patrick
Comments (3.66 / 3) (#3)
by rusty on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 02:23:36 AM EST

But then, I also don't think the moderation queue should have topical comments...

Ironic! ;-)

it's bad enough that the conversation of k5 happens here sometimes

Much less so now than before. The "fewer votes" principle does seem to actually be working. Keep an eye on a few stories over the time they're in the queue and the next week or so. They get vastly more discussion outside the queue than it it, these days.

All that aside, I also don't think having intros in the voting section would help anything. It would make it visually more complicated, and possibly put people off voting. And don't underestimate the power of a cryptic title to entice reading. If I saw a story called "In Comes the Weasel" I'd read it just to find out what the hell that meant. :-)

My feeling is that most people who vote just do it compulsively, like I do. That is, they at least read everything. We may not all vote on each one, but I don't think there's a major probem getting voting to occur.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Good Point... (none / 0) (#4)
by kormoc on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 03:01:03 AM EST

Wow, First comment I made!...err ok.
couldn't we have it as a option. I for one would like that. I don't know much bout k5's options, to add tons or KISS.

[ Parent ]
Anecdotal evidence (none / 0) (#22)
by Khalad on Mon Dec 24, 2001 at 10:58:26 PM EST

Compiled any statistics to verify your feeling? I for one visit the queue often, but I generally won't vote on a story unless the title interests me. It's just too much of a hassle to click on all of the stories, and quite often I feel like compulsively clearing the queue is, well, compulsive, and a waste of my time.

As long as there is no (new) indicator by the number of stories in the queue, it's annoying to have to load up the queue page just to find out that there are no new stories. Like I said, it's nice when I can get red of that annoying red number (eeergh!), but it's not worth it to go vote on all the stories when I don't really care about them. We can "Rate all" comments at once; why not stories? (At least to vote "Don't Care".) Show us the intro copy! Let us clear the stories out without having to read them! Free us from the shackles of all that clicking!

Freedom, rusty! Freedom!

Huh. Seems like my Christmas Eve excitement is spilling over into the strangest of places...


You remind me why I still, deep in my bitter crusty broken heart, love K5. —rusty


[ Parent ]
General agreement (none / 0) (#18)
by kmself on Mon Dec 24, 2001 at 05:03:56 AM EST

Context is good. "Just like any other page" may not be the right recipie, but some frigging idea of what the story's about would be quite useful. Ditto the current status, votes, views, etc., on the story.

Irony notwithstanding, topical comments shouldn't be required (this story should be posted already IMO).

Disagreeing with Rusty's comments -- titles alone are not enough, and "cute" or obscure titles which hide meaning are frankly really annoying. You can pull that kind of shit in print 'coz it only takes a half second to flip to the full contents or the page with the story and full context. The typical K5 article takes at least ten seconds to open (56k line), far longer if I've got contention for 'Net access. This latency is too high for obfuscatory titles. Some of the IWETHEY crowd may recall the battle with InfoWorld regarding this when a site revamp went to headlines only. This also argues for making the article summaries much shorter. I'd cap them at about 300 characters (50 words). My first paragraph is 35 words, and would suffice to introduce this post as an article, IMVAO.

As usual, Jakob Nielsen has something to say regarding this, it's called microcontent. His broader set of usability guidelines is also recommended.

And, for the full rip on what's wrong (and how to fix) the submission queue, see the Meatball Wiki node.

Nutshell summary (microcontent ;-): ditch the queue, authors write to diaries, items can be voted up, into sections (if the author's indicated this is OK), non-promoted articles remain as diary items. Moderation of articles within sections continues after posting, and affects article placement, subject to a time dwell penalty.

--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

Why? (3.50 / 2) (#2)
by joecool12321 on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 02:12:32 AM EST

just like any other page on k5.

1. "Being just like everything else" doesn't seem like a sufficient motivation for change. 2. It's not just like every other page. See here or here.

This would benefit the posters so that they have more than one line of text to motivate people to moderate their story.

1. How is this a benifit? If you can't catch them with the title, I doubt their gonna be caught. 2. I don't see any evidence to support the claim that people read the queue based on "catchiness". I, for example, read every story in the queue. I don't always moderate it, but I always read it. 3. This idea leads to laziness. People will mod based just on the summary, and not the entire article. 3.1 They need to read the entire article (or at least a few paragraphs) in the current system to vote responsibly. 3.2 This leads to better voter participation.

It would also help readers to decide whether that "In Goes the Weasel!" -story is about a new sexual practice or Weasel video editing tool v. 3.01b.

1. I'm fairly up-to-date on video production and editing. Especially digital editing. I'm not familiar with a Weasel video editing tool. 2. Not a huge benifit -- one click is all the time it takes to find out the difference. Maybe longer on dial-up. But I'm on dial-up, and the time doesn't really bother me.

I really like the "cleanliness" of the queue as it stands now. Adding summaries would only "clutter" the arrangement.

--Joey

No (3.66 / 3) (#5)
by qpt on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 03:16:54 AM EST

I think I like it fine the way it is.

Thanks.

Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.

additionally (4.00 / 5) (#6)
by enterfornone on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 03:54:21 AM EST

The ability to vote up/down stories from the moderate page without having to click on the story itself would be way useful :)

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
Hrmn... users are bad, m'kay (3.60 / 5) (#9)
by miah on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 11:47:16 AM EST

I think that would just lead to people mod'ing stuff up or down based on the title. And, since this is k5 you can expect good stories to have bad titles and bad stories to have the most creative titles. Not a worthy metric in my mind.


Religion is not the opiate of the masses. It is the biker grade crystal meth of the masses.
SLAVEWAGE
[ Parent ]
Re: additionally (3.50 / 2) (#13)
by wiml on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 04:29:58 PM EST

I don't think it would be useful, actually — I'd rather that people not moderate a story without having read it and, preferebly, the editorial comments as well.

[ Parent ]
Yep (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by J'raxis on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 04:29:32 AM EST

I have always thought that it should look exactly like one of the section pages or the main page. Why doesn’t it?

Making it the same as the section/main pages would also most likely minimize the code used in Scoop to create it, also; as whatever routine is used to generate those pages could also be used to generate the mod queue page.

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]

Section pages (none / 0) (#23)
by Weezul on Tue Dec 25, 2001 at 01:06:09 PM EST

No don't make it "look like" the section pages.. make it *be* the section pages. If your willing to vote then you should see all stories on their section pages wether they are approved or not. I know I'm not the only one who rarely reads anything that is not in the queue. If I could ger all the pending stories by clicking everything I would be much more likely to post to non-pending stories. We might see a lot less duplicate stories too.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini
[ Parent ]
i wish i could go directly to the next story... (4.66 / 6) (#8)
by sayke on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 06:34:56 AM EST

in the moderation queue, without having to go back to the moderation page. i don't think this would be that hard to add, at all, and it would save at least one click per article mod, which would, quite frankly, rock. that's all =)
sayke, v2.3.1 /* i am the middle finger of the invisible hand */
Yep (3.50 / 2) (#10)
by MicroBerto on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 12:28:19 PM EST

Same with diaries... I'd love it if I didn't have to have 2 windows open while doing diaries, i could just keep fripping from one to the next.

Berto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Bertoline - My comic strip
[ Parent ]
second (3.00 / 1) (#15)
by Devil Jeff on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 06:49:00 PM EST

Yeah, I'd also appreciate being move to the next story in the queue without going back to the index.

-jeff

--
"When the sun goes out, all deeds, significant or not, will be forgotten together." -- Jack Vance
[ Parent ]
duh (3.00 / 1) (#16)
by Devil Jeff on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 06:50:25 PM EST

"able to"

--
"When the sun goes out, all deeds, significant or not, will be forgotten together." -- Jack Vance
[ Parent ]
Well (4.00 / 2) (#11)
by Neuromancer on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 01:53:29 PM EST

I would go for the ability to DOWNVOTE stories from the queue, but not upvote them. It's easy to tell a troll from the first few lines... but someone like me could format his post so it says "What about the children..." in the queue, and just under that says, "...can't we sell them into slavery" under that.

I'd like to know number of views vs. votes (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by ajkohn on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 02:36:07 PM EST

and or comments. Would be interesting to see how many lurkers we have here, looking at and absorbing the stories and comments. It would also be interesting to see which stories were getting the most clicks, an interesting view into what pushes the K5 reader's buttons.


"Just because something bears the aspect of the inevitable one should not, therefore, go along willingly with it." - The Transmigration of Timothy Archer

This seems like a profoundly bad idea (4.25 / 4) (#17)
by hillct on Sun Dec 23, 2001 at 10:59:21 PM EST

It's vary important that story moderators be thoughtful in their moderation and considerate of story content. Furthermore, it's critical that the entire story content be evaluated in making a moderation decision. This requires that the entire story content be viewed, so displaying the story intro text to moderators without the body content would facilitate ill-considered and lacadezical moderation which would be a dis-service to Kuro5hin or any other scoop site.

For this reason I think implementing such a feature would be a vary bad idea.

--CTH

--Got Lists? | Top 31 Signs Your Spouse Is A Spy
NOT voting on queue page (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Dec 24, 2001 at 10:04:06 AM EST

For some reason some people are making the assumption that if intro copy is included in the moderation queue page, you would be able to vote on that same page without reading the entire story. I don't think anyone would even suggest we should vote or even be able to vote after reading only the intro (although it might lead to interesting results), and I never even implied anything like that.

Recapping: moderation queue page should include intro copy to make it fast and convenient to decide whether a story is something the moderator feels confident in voting, IMO. This would also imitate the experience we get from the front page, helping moderators to see if the intro has the required punch. While I often like cryptic and clever titles, I'm often disappointed to end up opening a story I have no interest or expertise in.

And voting should still be only possible after having the entire story in front of you.

My bodyweight is muscle and cock MMM
Tenured K5 uberdouchebag Herr mirleid
Meatgazer Frau gr3y


How about "Don't Care"? (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by Khalad on Mon Dec 24, 2001 at 10:47:38 PM EST

Actually, I think it would be really convenient to be able to vote "Don't Care" without having to read the entire story. There are a lot of stories in the queue that I don't ever care about, but it's not worth my time to go through and click them all just to vote "Don't Care".

This would work great if the introduction were visible from the main page. Voting on a story based solely on the title is a bit dubious, but I wouldn't have any qualms about voting "Don't Care" if I could read the title and the intro first.


You remind me why I still, deep in my bitter crusty broken heart, love K5. —rusty


[ Parent ]
Moderating queue should include intro | 24 comments (21 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)
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