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[P]
The Downfall of Kuro5hin: Part DIOXU

By pb in Meta
Thu Apr 05, 2001 at 07:22:03 AM EST
Tags: Humour (all tags)
Humour

Kuro5hin is stagnating. It is being divided into separate and conflicting pools of users. However, there can be only one.

I didn't believe Inoshiro when he told me that geeks here didn't really have a sense of humor, but now I know that even if some of the geeks do, the moderators definitely do not.


I would like to hear possible solutions to this impending culture-clash. The immediate problem is simple, but there are many more for us to face further down the road.

I propose a "back page", where anything that gets dumped primarily by -1's will appear on the bottom of the back page, and everything else that doesn't get posted from a link at the top of the back page entitled "All Mediocre Stories".

Also, an innovative domain name in the same style of existing innovative K5 domain names should be created, for it, like "backpage.kuro5hin.org", or "dumpit.kuro5hin.org".

That way, when a sick, twisted person K5er ever wants to see anything funny, controversial, or challenging to the assumptions of a normal K5er, they can go there, and we can be safely rid of them.

Also, this solves the problem of early posts in a story that disappears. This way, everyone can still get to everything on K5, and still see everything, instead of having their stories disappear at the whim of the Moderating Class.

Also, there is the problem of corrections. The editorial queue should fix all of this, by correcting those stories before they ever reach the real queue. At the moment, the editorial queue seems to be stuck in the editorial queue, but I'm sure Rusty will fish it out for us. And then, we can implement my system, and rest in peace knowing that all of us will be heard, and not have our voices squelched as they are in the current system.

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Poll
Best New K5 Feature From The Future?
o Editorial Queue 20%
o The Back Page 22%
o Private Diaries 5%
o A Real Text Mode 7%
o Tabbed Comment Pages 5%
o An Actual Flat Mode 4%
o A Humor Section 7%
o Mu 28%

Votes: 98
Results | Other Polls

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The Downfall of Kuro5hin: Part DIOXU | 44 comments (37 topical, 7 editorial, 1 hidden)
things aren't that bad (3.75 / 4) (#1)
by danny on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 07:27:29 AM EST

Apart from the geek love/streetlawyer debacle, I haven't noticed much story moderation that looks like a division along party lines. (I say this as a story attempt of my own is about to get dumped, but looking at it it again I can't say that's a terrible judgement.)

Danny.
[900 book reviews and other stuff]

heheh (2.50 / 2) (#16)
by pb on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 01:08:47 PM EST

Not that I trust the moderators to be impartial, but they look evenly divided over my story at the moment.

Also, I haven't seen a mention of possible humor here yet.

Therefore, I think both of my points have been made, thank you. :)
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
Poll (2.66 / 3) (#3)
by ZanThrax on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 07:50:23 AM EST

I don't want a better flat, I want a better nested! At the very least, I'd like the indenting to work all the time, instead of crapping out on second level comments when the first reply starts a massive chain, and I want nesting to go more than (6?) levels in before going flat...

Before flying off the handle over the suggestion that your a cocksucker, be sure that you do not, in fact, have a cock in your mouth.

Yea... (2.66 / 3) (#6)
by pb on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 09:12:58 AM EST

Amen, brother; I'd like to see that fixed too. For now, though, vote "Mu". :)

But yes, my complaint about Flat is that it doesn't show the comments in Sorted Order. And that bugs me to no end. i.e., "Oldest First" is pretty broken.

I mean, isn't that the *first* feature you're supposed to get working?
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
Nested Minimal. (none / 0) (#39)
by static on Fri Apr 06, 2001 at 05:10:18 AM EST

I was talking to a major contributor to K5's design the other week and we came to the conclusion that Scoop needs an additional dipslay option, which I've been called Nested Minimal. It would be the full message display of Nested, but only of one thread at a time. IOW, when you select a message, it would show that message plus all under it, but none at the same level. The view on a story link would look like Minimal mode.

I was later assured something like that is coming...

Wade.

[ Parent ]

problems and such (3.80 / 5) (#4)
by Delirium on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 08:12:28 AM EST

The problem with showing all dumped stories is that there'll be a lot of crap there. Some stories are voted down because they're misleading, uninformed, or just badly written. Plus, if a story is voted down and a rewrite is resubmitted it is really useful or desirable to still have the previous (presumably inferior) version of the story?

Plus this would require some sort of decision as to waht stories are just spam and will be deleted even from the backpage if the backpage isn't going to become crap-flooded to the point of uselessness.

read my post... (3.00 / 3) (#5)
by pb on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 09:11:03 AM EST

I address some of this in my post.

Or, rather, the Editing Queue is supposed to filter out some of that. The rest of it, Rusty & Co. have to do by hand right now (deleting spam and whatnot).

For stories that aren't spam, and wouldn't get rewritten or dumped in the editing phase, I say, what right is it of ours to delete it? There are still comments there, and discussion.

And, the Back Page can't get crap-flooded. The Front Page doesn't. Or, rather, it can only display so many stories at a time. For more stories, why, you'd have to search.
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
Elbow room on the Highlands (4.42 / 7) (#8)
by Sunir on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 09:36:28 AM EST

Presumably the reason why dumped stories get deleted is to discourage spammers. If you store their graffiti, it acts as somewhat of a trophy for them that they can show to others. It's also tangible feedback because it exists. For the same reasons, comments voted lower than 1 aren't visible to anyone. The idea is to prevent a culture of spam artists from festering here.

But, I think this is false. We now have a diary section that foregoes the editorial queue. The diary section has circumvented almost all of the security features stemming from the moderating system. Not only do people no longer have to vote to get material posted, but the diary section easily affords people trusted moderator status. Just create two accounts, have one post a lot in the other's diary, and have the other moderate all their comments to 5.

Yet kuro5hin still lives. Perhaps it's because diaries live an impoverished life as off to the side, but at least they are displayed on the front page, unlike the hidden sids (which also circumvent security). Maybe it's because they don't display in the submission queue where a lot of people hang out exclusively. Nonetheless, I think they've managed to relieve some pressure by allowing people to post even random musings somewhere.

Thus, if you want a separate area, the easiest thing to do is use the diary section. If you want, you can use the Whimsy fake diary account.

But the easiest answer isn't necessarily the best, and I think this would only be a band-aid solution. After all, it's not true that there can only be one. There can be many groups, but they will always be at odds. The ultimate reason is the common space is a limited resource, so naturally people are going to war over it. That is, there is limited space in the submission queue (who reads the front page anyway?). Hence why the diary section has alleviated pressure.

You can make technological solutions to this. Off the top of my head, maybe you can invert the queue, posting everything directly to the site. Some people like myself (maybe most people?) only vote stories up that we want to see stick around for discussion. I think we only vote stories down we want gone, gone, gone and the submission queue is the real front page. So, post everything, display them for a couple weeks so people can tag them into their hotlists, and then only vote stories out.

Another way is to get rid of story voting altogether as I suggest on that earlier post. This would certainly increase the size of the commons because no one could remove material. It would all stay. Getting people to like your content is harder, but that's the same battle for mindshare that we all fight every day.

But, as you know, that's the real sticking point. No matter what technology you create, you can't force people listen to you. Well, ok, you can Clockwork Orange them, but that's not feasible in the Real World let alone kuro5hin. If people are being anal, ultimately you need to either slap them until they stop or leave their company. Increasing the size of the commons works to the latter because you can just move to the other side of the room, but it doesn't fix the former. I'm not sure what would. Maybe it doesn't matter. We all just want to talk to ourselves anyway.

P.S. Read that Katz article; it's good. Don't read the comments; they're pretty lame.

"Look! You're free! Go, and be free!" and everyone hated it for that. --r

move dropped stories to diary (4.00 / 5) (#9)
by danny on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 10:34:44 AM EST

I still think dropped stories should be moved to the poster's diary, but I've beaten that to death already.

Danny.
[900 book reviews and other stuff]
[ Parent ]

dumpit.kuro5hin.org exists! (3.50 / 10) (#10)
by ucblockhead on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 11:29:48 AM EST

You can find it here!
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
Bad Idea. Here's a better solution (3.83 / 6) (#12)
by Carnage4Life on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 12:38:24 PM EST

I hate this idea for one reason: It defeats the entire purpose of voting stories down if they still appear somewhere on K5. This simply changes -1 to vote to section.

K5 already has a mechanism for people to post their submissions that were voted down it's called Diaries. For instance streetlawyer has posted every single one of his -1ed stories to his diary.

I remember when diaries were first introduced and people mentioned using diaries for exactly this purpose. So why do we need some convoluted mechanism simply to satisfy the egos of people whose stories get -1ed? I have a story in the queue right now that looks like its going to get -1ed because the K5 readership thinks it isn't worthy, if this is the case I don't want it still getting posted to some hidden section on K5, if I want people to discuss it I can still post it in my diary.

Here's my solution. Eventually I'd like people to select what stories and diaries appear on their front page and want sections they get to see in the story moderation queue. This means that people can stop seeing certain kinds of stories if they so choose. If they don't see the stories they don't like then they won't vote them down.

The main problem with this idea is that the K5 readership doesn't seem large enough to deal with fracturing the number of people who vote on stories, then again I might be wrong.

Nice idea; here's a slight tweak... :) (3.00 / 2) (#14)
by pb on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 12:48:55 PM EST

I like the idea of a customizable front page; very much so, in fact.

So how about you add the option "Show only newest -1'ed stories on the front page" to your customizable home page?

I mean, really, what's your beef with completely censoring it? These don't automatically go into diaries. They aren't deleted either. But almost everyone on the system, even if they commented to the story, *can't* see the original story. I call that a BUG.

And this was just one example of bug fixing. You'll notice that there's a whole list of stuff on the side that would be nice too. And a customizable front page is a great one that I forgot; consider it added to the list. :)
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
what if they just went into diaries automatically? (4.75 / 4) (#19)
by tankgirl on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 05:48:58 PM EST

Then maybe we can stop discussing this? (As we're _way_ past beating the poor dead horse, here...)

I honestly think it would be cool if the -1 stories just went into the posters diary.... (with all existing comments intact, of course, since that's usually the part I miss when a mediocore story gets dumped :-)

Anyone else for that?

cheers,
jeri.

"I'm afraid of Americans. I'm afraid of the world. I'm afraid I can't help it." -David Bowie
[ Parent ]
Oh my... (3.66 / 3) (#18)
by Elendale on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 04:53:54 PM EST

Not sure exactly what sort of humor this was intended as, but for a while something like this was seriously being discussed :) The reason it was never put into effect is the same reason the /. gang is going to have grey hair and the blood pressure of someone who disarms nuclear weapons by hand for a living: Too much shit. Mostly, K5 has been clean but every once in a while some inane stuff stops by. Let that stuff stick around and you'll find the "Back Page" would cycle about 5 times a day and there would be 50 submissions in the queue simultaneously. Of course, storing dead stories for- say- one day (that is, until they fall off the "back page") might be interesting...

Ok, i'll stop. I know what day it is...

-Elendale
---

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.


backpage time length (3.00 / 1) (#31)
by blp on Tue Apr 03, 2001 at 01:38:48 PM EST

Of course, storing dead stories for- say- one day (that is, until they fall off the "back page") might be interesting...

Or maybe keep the stories alive based on the ratings of the comments. So for a story that no one liked and sent to the backpage and still didn't like enough to post good comments to would dissapear, but the bad stories that get good comments would stick around longer (maybe forever).


I can no longer sit back and allow: Communist Infiltration, Communist Indoctrination, Communist Subversion and the International Communist Conspiracy to sap and inpurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
[ Parent ]

Don't be Ridiculous (4.25 / 4) (#20)
by makaera on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 08:16:45 PM EST

Warning: The following post consists entirely of humor that may be damaging to your mental health. Any attempts to take this post seriously will lead to brain damage.

What makes you think that the moderating class will allow this to make it out of the queue? This will be destroyed by -1s before it has a chance to be seen by anyone. If this idea actually took root, they might lose their control over K5.

makaera


"Ninety rounds in there," Joel Andrews said. "If you can't take it down with 90 rounds, you better turn in your badge!" -- from Washington Post

If it ain't broke... (3.00 / 1) (#21)
by mjs on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 09:23:08 PM EST

The moderation system exists to weed out the poorly written, the trite and trivial, the junk that everybody whines about having to wade through on the net. Now you want to archive it on a back page? I'd rather trust the gentle ministrations of complete strangers, thanks.

bwahahahaha (4.25 / 4) (#22)
by enterfornone on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 10:56:27 PM EST

The moderation system exists to weed out the poorly written, the trite and trivial
Which would be nice if it succeeded in doing this, but the the poorly written, the trite and trivial generally get accepted, while the well written but controversial stories are the ones that get dumped.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
heh (3.00 / 1) (#29)
by SEAL on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 07:24:01 PM EST

but the the poorly written

Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know. It was still funny :)

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
[ Parent ]

Nothing Gentle about the strangers here (none / 0) (#37)
by CaptainBoom on Thu Apr 05, 2001 at 11:52:44 AM EST

It is affect a form of censorship. Granted i don't want to see spam and i don't want to see Hax0rs speak but most of the people take it to the extreme voting stuff down because of the lack of a period. Get a life or get a job as an editor.

[ Parent ]
i say bravo! (3.00 / 3) (#23)
by dr3 on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 01:56:19 AM EST

good idea i say even if those with there heads stuck firm up there ass cant see it that way. I think it is a good idea to post even the most obscure and obfuscated of stories and ideas somewehre. I must admit i do hate the editorial nazi's who seem to troll the que, with there idea that everyone hsould write to the par of a prof writer. If you can not find meaning in something that doesnt mean taht someone else cant. And using "editorial rights" to impose censorship is completly wrong in my eyes. To hell with it i say posting all the "crap" to a back page would be a great idea. As for the argumen taht that is what the diaries are for, i wouldnt mind seeing those used for there orginal purpose either (personal rant section). Well there is my 2 cents


As Confused as a toddler in a topless bar.
Bwahahah! (2.00 / 1) (#35)
by pb on Wed Apr 04, 2001 at 02:31:38 AM EST

I completely agree; well said.

Hint to the moderators: try reading his post for content. He puts forth a valid opinion, and one which I happen to share.

i.e., just because you don't like it doesn't mean someone else might want to look at it later. Otherwise, the victors will always rewrite history, and you will never know the whole story.


---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]

Post to diary checkbox (4.75 / 8) (#24)
by The Cunctator on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 03:14:07 AM EST

I'm adding my vote to tankgirl's suggestion that dumped stories go into the submitter's diary, with only the additional suggestion that it be optional.

When you submit a story to the queue, you should be able to check off if you want it to be dumped into your diary instead of never-never land.

So do I.... (none / 0) (#44)
by binarygod on Thu Apr 25, 2002 at 04:00:22 PM EST



[ Parent ]
backpage? (4.00 / 3) (#27)
by kostya on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 04:17:28 PM EST

How about "backend"? :-)

While it might have "server" connotations, it also is a nice play on words, considering the stories you propose putting there ;-)



----
Veritas otium parit. --Terence
My personal K5 pet peeve (4.60 / 5) (#28)
by Luke Francl on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 06:42:22 PM EST

Here is my personal K5 pet peeve:

Sometimes a story isn't very good, and it gets dumped. But, during the time it's in the queue, dozens of people posts comments on the story, sometimes very interesting ones. When a story gets dumped, those comments are lost forever (or rather, they become very hard to find).

In addition, people will often link to stories in the queue, and if the story is dumped, that link will break. I hate that.

I recommend that stories never get trashed, and links still work forever (which would mean that backpage.kuro5hin.org would not be an option, because it still breaks the link). I still favor the idea that whatever you vote up goes to your personal homepage, where you can discuss it ad nauseum, and everything you vote down, you never have to see again (unless you choose to).

Failing that, the easier solution would be to turn off topical comments to stories still in the queue (Yes, I'm violating my own rule right now...). This would solve the problem where a story with tons discussion gets dropped.

Bizaro Kuro5hin! (4.66 / 3) (#30)
by jabber on Tue Apr 03, 2001 at 01:17:36 PM EST

I like it, the exact opposite, mirror image of K5, where Sig11 will be adored and SL will be respected. Where technical articles will be abhored in favor of MLP, and OpEd pieces will be fair and well researched.. Just imagine it.

Of course it should be hosted on a separate machine, with out a physical connection to the original K5, since should the content of the two sites mix, the resulting explosion would destroy all matter and space within several parsecs.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Bottom of the Barrel !! (4.66 / 3) (#33)
by Komodo321 on Tue Apr 03, 2001 at 02:59:21 PM EST

Was it PT Barnum that said you will never go broke underestimating the good taste of the American Public? Let's turn the K5 floor scraps into a tasty whole meat product!! It's as good as goat!

Hey! (none / 0) (#43)
by scruffyMark on Thu Apr 19, 2001 at 03:35:23 AM EST

Goat is mighty good! It's like lamb, but leaner and IMO better tasting.

[ Parent ]
what trash (4.70 / 10) (#34)
by klamath on Tue Apr 03, 2001 at 04:10:30 PM EST

This story is horrible. It's bad enough that I think the authors might be ineptly trying to be humorous. The author makes sweeping statements without bothering to justify them (e.g. "Kuro5hin is stagnating. It is being divided into separate and conflicting pools of users." -- how so?). His ideas are incoherent (like his insipident suggestion of 'dumpit.kuro5hin.org'), or paranoid (like his ramblings about moderators).

I would like to hear possible solutions to this impending culture-clash. The immediate problem is simple
What 'impending culture-clash'? What 'immediate problem'?
This way, everyone can still get to everything on K5, and still see everything, instead of having their stories disappear at the whim of the Moderating Class.
Yes... the 'Moderating Class' -- those oppressive K5ers who form 100% of the population here, who force their opinions on the down-trodden 0% of K5ers who aren't allowed to vote. You are free to vote on stories yourself; and if you don't like the communities selection of stories to post, then you are free to go someone else, where the taste of the collective more closely resembles your own.
we can implement my system, and rest in peace knowing that all of us will be heard, and not have our voices squelched as they are in the current system.
I don't want to hear opinions from every single member of the K5 community. Period. I'm happy to let the community (with my involvement) select the "best" stories. If at any point the community's concept of "best" disagrees with my own too much, I'll find another discussion site. The end result is that you get much more interesting discussion, and a far higher S/N ratio.

Anyway, if you want your voice to be heard, no one is stopping you. Feel free to go to Slashdot, post on Usenet, or hand out flyers on street corners.

I wasn't sure whether this should be editorial or topical. I left it as topical to be safe.

Yup. (2.80 / 5) (#36)
by pb on Thu Apr 05, 2001 at 10:49:20 AM EST

Horrible, isn't it? The beginning is pure rhetoric. What sicko would write such a thing?? Oh my, I've offended your delicate sensibilities. Go mod it to -1 right away! Oh, and mod this post to 0 too; QUICK, before someone NOTICES!!

*ahem* Now where was I?

Since this actually got posted to Section (I'm surprised), my Back Page solution wasn't necessary in this case. But, as you can see, some of your fellow Kuro5hin readers didn't share your opinion. And if people like you dumped this story before they got a chance to read it, I would like it archived somewhere for them. Fair?

And, no, not everyone on K5 moderates. More importantly, the small number of people who moderate all the time make up a very different segment of K5 than the people who just moderate occasionally, and therefore miss a lot of stories that get dumped. I think that's a significant difference.

Oh, and I'm soo glad that YOU don't want to hear everyone's opinion. So I'll just go somewhere else now, Mr. Tolerant.

P.S. April Fool's, Motherfucker; just because you didn't get the joke (parody involved!!) doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it. I wrote this article specifically for people like you, who moderate, as a warning to the rest of us. Think about that.
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]

so it was a joke? (5.00 / 2) (#38)
by klamath on Thu Apr 05, 2001 at 05:57:34 PM EST

just because you didn't get the joke (parody involved!!) doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it.
I wasn't being an 'asshole'. I thought your story was trash, so I said so. Simple as that -- if you don't want people to comment on what you write, don't write anything.
And, no, not everyone on K5 moderates. More importantly, the small number of people who moderate all the time make up a very different segment of K5 than the people who just moderate occasionally, and therefore miss a lot of stories that get dumped. I think that's a significant difference.
I didn't say everyone on k5 moderates -- I said everyone has the opportunity to moderate. Simply because some people choose not to exercise this right does not mean that those who do are oppressors, or are abusing the system -- it's the fault of the lazy and/or disinterested members of the community that their 'opinion', expressed through their vote, is not heard. Therefore, your groundless assertion that stories are dropped ' at the whim of the Moderating Class' is completely absurd.
Horrible, isn't it? The beginning is pure rhetoric. What sicko would write such a thing?? Oh my, I've offended your delicate sensibilities
Don't be pedantic. It didn't offend me -- I just find writing like that to be poor and unconvincing. Thus, it makes for a low quality story, IMHO.
And if people like you dumped this story before they got a chance to read it, I would like it archived somewhere for them. Fair?
Hmmm... if you ignore your writing style and assinine comments, as well as your ridiculous sense of persecution, you actually have a decent idea. I think your artful sarcasm (heh) is making it difficult for me to understand what you are actually arguing for. What would be the purpose of this section, and why is it needed?
Oh, and I'm soo glad that YOU don't want to hear everyone's opinion. So I'll just go somewhere else now, Mr. Tolerant.
If 'tolerance' to you means promoting the good as well as the bad, then no, I'm not tolerant.

[ Parent ]
Excellent. (none / 0) (#40)
by pb on Fri Apr 06, 2001 at 05:11:18 AM EST

Indeed, you were being an asshole, IMHO. Or an elitist bastard, take your pick. How else could I interpret your fond parting words?

"Anyway, if you want your voice to be heard, no one is stopping you. Feel free to go to Slashdot, post on Usenet, or hand out flyers on street corners."

Ah, yes. Someone posted something I don't agree with. Therefore, they should go somewhere else. I don't know how long they've been on K5, or if they're part of this "community" thing, but obviously they don't belong. Never mind what everyone else says...

Similarly, your current parting words convey a similar lack of understanding. As I do not subscribe to your absolute ideas over what is "good" and "bad", I don't trust your idea of "tolerance", either. Tolerance also means putting up with what other people think is good and bad, and not just listening to your own opinions.

Anyhow, as I've said before, I hate to have to explain a joke; that's really the worst part. You've already highlighted everything that was sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek in your first rant, but apparently missed the irony completely. Let me find a few links on Kuro5hin, to help out... here, here, here, or here.

Also, let me explain some terminology. What you just replied to is a "flame". And when you ask "so was it a joke?", I can only say that I posted it in "Meta / Humor", on April Fool's Day. I hoped that after all these little hints, and at least a *couple* of comments by people who realized it might be a joke, I wouldn't get any replies such as your own.

Of course, it wouldn't be a good joke if it didn't have some truth to it, and therefore I like to think of it as a parody of the worst of a Meta story. Meta stories generally consist of (a) bitching about K5 (or its impending doom), (b) feature requests, or (c) mindless K5 babble that no one else understands. The impending doom is easy to copy, and you noticed that right off. I tried to make the feature request as ludicrous and sensible as possible. As for mindless K5 babble, well, that's why we have the Comments, right?

Might I add that I am to blame for the Humor Topic on K5, thanks to Inoshiro, and that bit about Moderators not having a sense of humor wasn't a joke, either. And you couldn't have proven my point any better. I just wish it wasn't the case. Now I'll have to go back to tagging all my humor with FUNNY again, instead of expecting people to look at the topic, or read the story...
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]

guilty as charged... (none / 0) (#41)
by klamath on Fri Apr 06, 2001 at 10:57:15 PM EST

I didn't understand your humour. Whether that means the joke sucked, or I'm just a humourless bastard is a guess just a matter of perspective. Then again, 7 people mod'ed my original comment to '5' -- so maybe I wasn't the only one who didn't 'get it'.

Indeed, you were being an asshole, IMHO. Or an elitist bastard, take your pick. How else could I interpret your fond parting words?
Again, I'm confused. My parting words were meant to be quite serious -- I was suggesting 3 alternative methods of expressing your opinion, free of the authoritarian whim of the 'Moderating Class'. How is that being elitist?
Ah, yes. Someone posted something I don't agree with. Therefore, they should go somewhere else.
No, this is what I mean: yes, people have an absolute, un-infringable right to freedom of speech. However, that does not extend to the freedom to use another's property for your own speech. In other words, if I own a magazine, the content of the magazine should be decided by me -- if I don't publish a letter or article you write, that is not violating your freedom of speech.

So how does this apply? I think k5 is, effectively, 'community owned' (assuming rusty et al don't interfere, and they really do). So the community should decide what is published here, because it is the 'owner' of this 'publication'. So if the community decides not to publish your article/comment in its publication, what is wrong with that? As I said, there are many avenues of free speech available that don't require the use of another's property.

As I do not subscribe to your absolute ideas over what is "good" and "bad", I don't trust your idea of "tolerance", either. Tolerance also means putting up with what other people think is good and bad, and not just listening to your own opinions.
I am certainly willing to put up with what I don't agree with -- I'm partial to Libertarianism, that's an obvious principle. But I will express my opinion that something sucks -- I just won't try to supress that opposing opinion.

[ Parent ]
Fair enough... (3.00 / 2) (#42)
by pb on Sat Apr 07, 2001 at 04:57:39 AM EST

The idea of "publishing" doesn't carry over very well here. What Kuro5hin does is equivalent to this.

- Allow anyone to "publish" an article for review and comments, by submitting it to the queue.
- Allow people to comment on it, in the queue, as they would on a regular published article.
- Allow people to dump a story, essentially "unpublishing" it. The comments *and* the story are still there. However, the comments are hard to find, and the story is essentially censored.

My suggestion would simply modify that last step. But that's not really a big deal.

The lack of humor on kuro5hin is a slightly bigger deal, but there isn't much we can do about that. Tagging humor as "funny" isn't a great solution, and disclaimers aren't either. I figured a funny Topic might be enough, but apparently it isn't, for a significant percentage of Kuro5hin readers. (i.e., at least you, and possibly the seven people who modded your original post to 5, although that is assuming quite a bit)

I was interpreting your suggestion at the end as a generic "go somewhere else". I didn't understand your interpretation because, if anything, slashdot is generally less free (it's harder to get anything coherent "published" there, period, but they don't usually remove stories), and much of USENET is either moderated or spam-fodder nowadays.

How is it obvious that you're partial to Libertarianism? I've looked at the basic Libertarian tenets, and they seem incredibly vague and rhetorical. I still don't know what they stand for, if anything, besides not being the other two parties, which at least have slightly more clearly defined agendas and biases.
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
The Downfall of Kuro5hin: Part DIOXU | 44 comments (37 topical, 7 editorial, 1 hidden)
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