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Voting Feedback

By DranoK 420 in Meta
Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 10:13:43 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

He stares at the radiating screen, his left index finger flirting with the 'r' key and thumb gently stroking 'alt'. He has refreshed this page over fifty times now. Like many of us, this anonymous man has just submitted an article to the queue.


So far 75 people have voted -- 30 in favor, 29 against, and 16 didn't care. Two comments are posted, one topical, the other an editorial. The editorial is a single line simply stating: "This would make a good diary..." Two people have rated this comment, one doling out a '5' and the other a '1'. Quickly the unnamed man checks the voting history and sees the user who rated the editorial a '5' voted '-1' to his submission, while the user who rated the comment a '1' voted '+1 FP'.

During this time five more people have cast their votes, one in favor, three against, and one who didn't care. Out of 80 different votes the man only knows for sure the opinion of one voter who took the time to post a brief editorial. He has no insight into why people are voting it down, or for that matter, why people are voting it up. Is his premise flawed? Did he overlook something obvious that makes his submission irrelevant? Does it simply need a rewrite -- is it just too jagged along the edges? If so, what parts need a rewrite? What do people like about his submission?

Twenty more votes and still sparse comments. Someone posted something about his grammar, which was useful, and someone replied to the previously mentioned topical comment. Sighing the man closes his netscape window and wanders off to do something else. If the story gets dumped he won't bother to resubmit it -- what would be the point? He might change the things people liked, or he might just change the wrong things. He has no clue why people were voting it up, or why people were voting it down. Was it political? Did people just not like him? Does his writing suck? Was the article vague? Mis-sectioned? Redundant? John Doe may never know.

Problem:

Very few people take the time to explain why they cast their vote in the way they do. This leads to a lack of understanding on the authors part as to why his submission was rejected (or approved), inhibiting his ability to write better articles in the future. This also places exaggerated emphasis on those comments which are posted. One person out of 80 who voted a story down might have cast his vote thinking the article over-all was decent but needed a rewrite. If he submitted a comment explaining his actions, the author might assume that the other 79 people who voted '-1' thought the submission simply needed a rewrite as well. What if these 79 people thought the story was just flamebait? The re-submission would be quickly voted into oblivion leaving the author perplexed and confused.

Some people cast their votes in agreement/disagreement over the thesis of the submission. Others vote a story up or down merely on how well it was written, and how well it conveys its points. Some view grammar mistakes as heinously as factual ones and only want a superb quality of writing on the front page. Some people only care about the information provided and not the style in which it was conveyed. All these different points of view get lumped together in the overall vote which allows no room for the author to understand the reasoning and conditions that brought about his submission's demise (or its rise to the front page!).

Possible Solutions:

One-liner when voting

When you read a story in the queue and are presented with the drop-down box at the end with the +1FP/+1/0/-1 options, a small one-line text field could be added, allowing someone to tag a one-line comment to their vote. In the 'Voting Record' box there could be a new button captioned 'View One-liners' that would allow users to view a list of how each user voted followed by their one-liner (if one was provided). I'm not sure if this would be appropriate to include if the story was actually posted, but would be invaluable for the author (and others) to view while the submission was still in the queue. Another bonus to this method is it would require no more clicking on the part of those voting -- no new pages would need to be loaded. Someone could simply select the drop-down box to be '-1', type 'Diary entry' into the text field and hit submit.

Inter-story vote tracking

I suppose this is not really related, but I think the following would help authors understand the mind-set of their peers. Next to the 'Get User Info' button in the 'Voting Record' box there could be a new button captioned 'Get User History', which would bring up a simple page showing the ten most recent votes the selected user cast on stories which made it out of the queue. Users would then be enabled to see if other users are simply picky and vote '-1' or '0' on almost everything, or if they simply don't like certain types of submissions.

-1 Resubmit

I know this has been brought up before, I simply think it would be a great idea. A '-1 Resubmit' vote would be treated no differently than a plain '-1' vote, however, when the submission was voted into oblivion the author could use this information to determine if he should bother with a rewrite. If a submission gathered 80 '-1' votes, 60 of which were '-1 Resubmit' the author would be more apt to rewrite and resubmit his article. Likewise, a submission that gathered 40 '-1' votes, only five of which were tagged '-1 Resubmit' would send a message to the author that a re-submission wouldn't help.

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Poll
Which of these ideas do you like?
o One-liner only 21%
o Vote tracking only 1%
o -1 Resubmit only 15%
o One-liner and Vote tracking 3%
o One-liner and -1 Resubmit 30%
o Vote Tracking and -1 Resubmit 6%
o All three 9%
o Blue 13%

Votes: 66
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Also by DranoK 420


Display: Sort:
Voting Feedback | 49 comments (38 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
Comments on comments... (3.85 / 7) (#1)
by chipuni on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 04:55:28 PM EST

Well, SOMEONE had to break the perfect irony of a message asking for comments... without any comments.

Frankly, it would be nice if more people did give helpful editorial comments. However... when you do, you also get flamed. It's frankly a lot easier to just cast your ballot and say nothing -- rather than have people attack you for your beliefs.

Not all of us have trhurler's thick skin, after all...
--
Perfection is not reached when nothing more can be added, but only when nothing more can be taken away.
Wisdom for short attention spans.

You want some frickin' feedback? (3.16 / 6) (#2)
by dukethug on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 04:56:06 PM EST

I think that most of the reasons people vote a story down can be expressed in a few easy categories, e.g.,

  • Bad grammar/spelling or broken links,
  • Diary entry,
  • Sick of this topic,
  • Revenge (the reason I usually mod stories down)

I don't think it would be a big deal to have just those as the -1 options, and that prevents my carpal-tunneled wrists from having to type anything more than is necessary. If people have more interesting reasons for voting "Nay," they're usually kind enough to post them in editorials.

Actually, isn't this the sorta thing that is so shit simple that you should just be able to change a couple of lines of code in scoop and be done with in 10 minutes? I mean, it's one thing to complain to rusty and make him do stupid busy work (since we all know he is busy working on that archaeological dig in sub-saharan Africa), it's another to take the 5 minutes you'll need to learn enough perl to make the change yourself.

This is a good idea (4.00 / 4) (#4)
by Hopfrog on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:05:24 PM EST

In my opinion, there should be categories. Lots of -1, which all have the same value, but have different descriptions.

-1: Poorly written
-1: Spelling
-1: Grammer
-1: Uninteresting

You get my drift. Then at least people will have a vague idea why exactly their story didn't make it.

Hop.

-1 Spelling (4.00 / 4) (#9)
by ikeaboy on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:15:21 PM EST

Grammer? Sorry, had to spot the deliberate mistake :)

[ Parent ]
Credit (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Anonymous 7324 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:02:30 PM EST

You do give the man much credit. You'd think tho, that if it really were deliberate, he would have made the boo-boo on 'speling'.

[ Parent ]
Good idea (4.00 / 4) (#5)
by hulver on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:09:03 PM EST

I think the one shot, enter a quick comment and vote at the same time is a really good idea.

--
HuSi!
Don't want to repeat comments (4.00 / 7) (#6)
by tudlio on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:11:07 PM EST

I like your one-liner idea, or better yet dukethug's special list of -1 votes. I don't often comment on a story I've modded down if someone else has already expressed that point of view.

My list would be:

  • -1 spelling and grammar
  • -1 diary entry
  • -1 been done
  • -1 poor writing
  • -1 not relevant
  • -1 other



insert self-deprecatory humor here
Agree to some extent (4.00 / 2) (#10)
by tenpo on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:38:42 PM EST

I think adding some description to the 'Dump it! -1' field is, i think, a great idea. It would help the author to know whether or not to resubmit. However I think adding too many options would be unnecessarily confusing.

Simply adding 'Rewrite, Resubmit. -1' would be enough, i think. Telling someone that it belongs in a diary is pretty redundant. Either they use their diary already or they don't.

[ Parent ]
"-1 Resubmit" with a twist (4.75 / 4) (#7)
by webmaestro on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:12:37 PM EST

I like the idea of having several different moderations for stories, kind of like the moderation system for Slashdot's comments. I think it could be implemented very much like the "Front page" option. In the list of users that voted -1 it could have "webmaestro (Spellcheck)" or "webmaestro (Diary)" or several other common problems with stories. It would certainly make it easier for the person rating the story to inform the writer if they should take the trouble to resubmit, without requiring them to take the time to write an editorial comment about it.
--
Check out Worldofun.com. It's a world of fun.
I guess others beat me to it (3.66 / 3) (#8)
by webmaestro on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:14:09 PM EST

I guess some other people had the same idea I had but typed it up faster.

Tyler
--
Check out Worldofun.com. It's a world of fun.
[ Parent ]
Common courtesy on votes (4.12 / 8) (#12)
by jabber on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:49:18 PM EST

We don't need a technical solution to this problem - and it is a valid problem. The mechanism for feedback is already in place.. Editorial Comments, and the rating of them when one's own would be redundant. People are simply NOT making use of it.

The downstream problem here is that if you make feedback compulsory, you'll get back garbage, because many people don't want to be bothered. If you make it voluntary, as it is now, people won't use it because they won't want to be bothered.

It comes down to whether or not people care enough about the works of the system to make the monumental sacrifice of 30 or so seconds to provide their feedback.

If I see my objection already represented, I rate the comment up and the article down. If I see a valid objection which I think can be overlooked, I vote both the comment and the article up.

Sometimes, I'll rate editorials in an article I vote 0 on.. They're helpful and constructive, or invalid and mean, and I simply don't care about the story.

Sometimes, if I see an outcry of -1 on a story I am undecided about, I'll -1 it as a mercy killing, to get it out of the queue.

Other times, I consider the source of the article as well as the quality of the article.. Yes, I have bias for or against certain people. When I see a glory-hound post a new article almost every day, or recycle an old recipe with a new spin, even if the articles are half-decent individually, I will vote -1, purely out of spite.

In any case, right or wrong on the bias bit, I give a damn about the content here, and I try to provide relatively constructive feedback on content and author attitude (this is where my bias comes in).

The problem is, I seem to be in the minority. A story rarely dies for the single reason of being contested 'diary fodder'. People should take the time to provide some feedback in addition to just the vote.. Maybe a selection of reasons is workable, but I think most people would just accept the default option. What is IS workable, it just takes a moment of time to make use of it.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Constructive criticism (3.33 / 3) (#15)
by ucblockhead on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:18:53 PM EST

Unfortunately, often constructive comments like "You spelled 'foo' wrong, and you need a bit more meat" are usually met with responses like "hey you damn spelling nazi you should vote it up anyway because its important!".

Tends to discourage one from making editorial comments.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Stop and think. (none / 0) (#17)
by h3lldr0p on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:26:54 PM EST

And please, whatever you do, don't put words in my mouth.

Even in victory, there is no beauty
And who calls it beautiful
Is one who delights in slaughter
[ Parent ]

Huh? n/t (3.00 / 2) (#18)
by jabber on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:47:16 PM EST


[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

Hrrr. Why do I have to spell it out? (none / 0) (#20)
by h3lldr0p on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:59:42 PM EST

"The downstream problem here is that if you make feedback compulsory, you'll get back garbage, because many people don't want to be bothered. If you make it voluntary, as it is now, people won't use it because they won't want to be bothered."

I really wish people would stop generallizing like this. To some extent, yes, this is the main problem. However by and large, when I 'fail' to comment on my own vote, it has more to do with somebody else having already posting the same opinion that I have. There is also the time which I have expressed why, and have also received little or no feedback.


Even in victory, there is no beauty
And who calls it beautiful
Is one who delights in slaughter
[ Parent ]

Then rate that comment! (4.00 / 3) (#25)
by UncleMikey on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:16:20 PM EST

when I 'fail' to comment on my own vote, it has more to do with somebody else having already posting the same opinion that I have.

If there's a comment that already expresses your opinion, then at least rate that comment to show that you agree. Do something to show you did more than randomly pulled down the menu and hit 'Vote'.

As a general rule, if I vote -1 or +1, I try to comment, sometimes even if it's redundant, because I value feedback myself. I only don't comment if I vote '0', because 'I don't care' is pretty self-explanatory :-)
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]

Which I think I'd said.. n/t (2.00 / 1) (#29)
by jabber on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:34:00 PM EST


[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

What would be really shnazzy... (5.00 / 8) (#14)
by DranoK 420 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:08:50 PM EST

would be to be able to configure the -1 responses in your user preferences. So you could make all your favorite reasons for -1 appear in your own drop-down box when you're logged in.

In addition, next to the one-line box, there could be a checkbox which could allow people to add their one-liner to this submission to their list, thus growing the list on-the-fly. If they later decided they didn't want that particular reason listed in their drop-down box they could use the user prefs to remove it.

Best of both worlds? =)

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence.


Send it to scoop! (none / 0) (#48)
by imrdkl on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 05:33:30 AM EST

Or, perhaps not.

I admit, your description fits me in some ways. I'm a post-aholic. But I don't need detailed explanations, either. When folks care to explain, it's usually appreciated, even when it's insulting, but I enjoy the process as it is, or else I wouldn't do it so much. Thanks for an entertaining insight, tho.

[ Parent ]

Replying (4.25 / 4) (#16)
by sisyphus on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:21:06 PM EST

I think the whole point of k5 is to provoke response and if you're not getting any it's possible because it has already been said, no one cares about the topic or both.

I think this article is a good example of this, I and others are provoked into replying, whereas in other articles we are not.

Personally if I like the topic I would post when and if it gets to frontpage,if I don't like it why would I bother commenting, I think that if you want people to comment on your articles, just state it at the end of the article.


The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor.

Hidden comment for the author (4.11 / 9) (#19)
by Sheepdot on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:57:20 PM EST

There's a lot of times I want to let the author know about their grammar and just don't have the heart to do it in a comment where everyone can see it. I also don't like the idea of stating why I voted it down would garner me a low rating. Especially when it sometimes is only a one sentence editorial comment.

To be quite honest, K5 screams "Be PC!" when it comes to editorial comments. There's a number of times when a five-time author should *not* have made the stupid spelling/grammar mistake they did, and I'd really like to chide them for it.

But I can't, or at least, if I do, I can't make the comment like "What the fuck were you thinking? Semantics, not semites!!".Do I really need to swear to get my point across? Well, I've found that cussing out my roommate for his misuse of "their" and "there" finally worked, so I imagine I *do* need to.

I know this is a bit redundant. (3.25 / 4) (#22)
by swamp rat on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:06:23 PM EST

Even though I'm pretty new here, I've noticed that a lot of the time someone else has already said it. So really if more people ranked the comments that corresponded to their own opinions it would accomplish something of the same thing as having the extra voting options or the one-liners. Just in a more roundabout way.

That being said, I do kind of like the idea of the one-liners when voting.



Arg. (none / 0) (#23)
by swamp rat on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:10:49 PM EST

"a lot of the time someone else has already said it."

That supposed to say "a lot of the time some else has already said what I wanted to say."

This is what I get for only checking for spelling and not coherence.



[ Parent ]
ranking comments (none / 0) (#38)
by tenpo on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 10:28:21 PM EST

By suggesting that it'd be better if more people "ranked the comments that corresponded to their own opinions" i'm supposing that you are referring to the little drop-down that comments appear with allowing scores of 1-5? That's the moderation tool. It's used to indicate whether you think this is a well-reasoned/funny/constructive comment, not whether you agree with it or not.

If that's not what you meant, I have assumed incorrectly and wasted people's time. Ha! And you can't get it back! Haha! ... ahem... excuse me...

[ Parent ]
My mistake. (none / 0) (#45)
by swamp rat on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 01:36:15 AM EST

Ah, well you were correct in this case. So I suppose it wasn't a waste of my time at least.

I guess I must have glossed over that in the faq. Thanks for informing me.



[ Parent ]
getting reamed when you explain (4.00 / 1) (#24)
by etherdeath on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:15:59 PM EST

I either get reamed both by responses and by moderation whenever I post explaining why I didn't vote. When I first started visiting this site regularly, 3 weeks ago, most of the time when I voted against, I felt that I should at least leave a reason if I'm going to vote -1.

Now I'm not so sure. I didn't think I was wording anything harshly, but people seem to take offense anyway. And I'm guess I'm a wimp or something because I don't like to offend people too much, at least not when they've submitted a story that they may have taken what they might consider valuable time of theirs to post. (I know, lots of conditionals there). I'm cutting back on the explainations for when voting against. It rarely leads to anything constructive. Maybe I just have to work on how I write them. Usually that's my complaint - "you didn't write enough", and I'm not hearing that back at me "you didn't say enough about why you voted -1", I'm just hearing people get offended.

I'm not here to hold your hand (2.85 / 7) (#30)
by 4iedBandit on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:40:51 PM EST

Sorry, but life is not always easy. Sure it would be nice if everyone always told you what you did right/wrong or why they did/didn't like something. However it just doesn't work that way, and honestly it would probably just confuse you even more. How would you deal with the answer, "I just didn't like the color blue this morning so I voted to dump your article?"

If you require comments from everyone then it just becomes a chore. As others have pointed out, if there is already an editorial that states their opinion, they don't feel the need to post a "me too" comment. Take the comments you do get and craft a better article next time. You don't have to know why everyone votes the way they do, in all honesty it's irrelevant, as long as a few people tell you why odds are there are a bunch more who agree with them.

Don't fret the people who don't give you feedback in a comment. You've already got their feedback in a vote. There are plenty of articles that make it to the front page, take a look at what their authors are doing to make it there.



Oooh, fresh meat (2.66 / 3) (#31)
by DranoK 420 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 07:54:03 PM EST

You obviously don't know me, do you? =) Wow. If you did you would understand that I'm submitting this article not for my own benefit. You must be new here, so you're excused =)

But when the smelly breath of nine thousand horny dogs ripples across your skin like an army of tiny threads ripping and tearing and eating at your sanity, remember who I am. =)

DranoK does not like being forgotton. DranoK does not like people to judge him from this one gentle teddy-bear submission. DranoK fears his legacy is fading, his glory-filled days of yore forgotton. New faces, new meat.

Is it time for DranoK to return to his former glory? May whatever god you masturbate to have mercy on your bits, for the DranoK of old is about to return....

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence.


[ Parent ]
FREE!!! Home Electro-Shock Therapy Kit! (3.00 / 2) (#32)
by 4iedBandit on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 08:12:28 PM EST

You obviously don't know me, do you? =) Wow. If you did you would understand that I'm submitting this article not for my own benefit.

Ah, so you're posting on behalf of all the poor, downtrodden, hapless, whiny people who just need to feel loved...

...like yourself.

Well at least I now know why you suck at clearing the crap out of my bathtub drain...

=)



[ Parent ]
I submitted this (4.00 / 3) (#33)
by DranoK 420 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 08:22:15 PM EST

on behalf of the cows and humans who so regularly grace these pages but can't formulate sentences worth more than a copy-and-paste of Hickville's collection of top-rated trash.

on behalf of all those wenches who post shit like this over and over and over again like a stripped screw trying desparately to abandon its hole.

because it was 2pm and I was at work, had nothing to do, and couldn't think of any worthwhile subjects to write on, and thought I'd share an idea.

because I love receiving responses from self-serving twits like yourself who feel the need to ease the blow of an insult with a smiley, or a joke. Because I love to see such clever, ingenious, original text formats docile pigs like yourself incomprehensively believe are cute and clever. No! Nobody ever thought of ending one paragraph with '...' and starting the next one with the same three characters! Oh! That will be a shock! Oooh! *jerk* *jerk* *jerk* *cum*!! Yeah baby, yeah! I love myself!

But mostly, I submitted this simply because I was bored.

Why do I insult you thus? Because you deserve it. Because, if you read my poetry, my submissions, my comments -- because if you knew me from anything other than this article you'd be on the floor laughing your dirty piss-stained socks off with the rest of us over your off-based assesment as to who and what I am -- because you are a total fuckwad who replies to comments with an insult and then puts a smiley face at the end. Because you don't have the desire, inclination or ability to propperly insult without appology, without remorse.

But mostly I insult you thus because it took about 15 minutes to write. Fifteen minutes closer to when work ends. Fifteen minutes closer to going home.

And, of course, to piss you off. Oh, I almost forgot.

=)

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence.


[ Parent ]
Hey, man.. (4.00 / 3) (#41)
by Trollificus on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 11:14:09 PM EST

..I do have to applaud you for one thing. You actually managed to post a story without mentioning your boyfriend! =D

I don't know about the others around here, but I thought this article was a refreshing change. +1

"The separation of church and state is a fiction. The nation is the kingdom of God, period."
--Bishop Harold Calvin Ray of West Palm Beach, FL
[ Parent ]

Drano never tasted so good! (2.00 / 1) (#44)
by 4iedBandit on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 12:03:31 AM EST

Oh Lawd Ahlmahty! I have most definitely been put in my place. I feel so shamed, so humiliated, so dirty. I'm such a bad, bad person for not caring about your wittle, itty, bitty ego. For not being sensitive to your needs.

Ah hell, who am I foolin? I feel no shame, no humiliation, maybe a little dirty. Wait! What was that? A pang of guilt maybe? Nah, just had to pass some gas.

Those daily affirmations just not workin' for ya? Repeat after me:
"I'm pretty."
"I'm intelligent."
"I'm funny, and gosh darn it, people like me."

Keep that up three or four thousand times, and you just might begin to believe it.

I guess this is why they keep sending me to diversity training...

Oh, and I still have a bathtub drain that could use your help.



[ Parent ]
Sending rough-draft to editors? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by rajivvarma on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 09:14:56 PM EST

Hey:

This link (http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=special;page=article#help) points to a section of K5 FAQ that says you can send a submission to the editors (editors@kuro5hin.org) and that they'll go over it with you.

I've never sent one to the editors, but I imagine it's helpful.

Has anyone done this? If so, what kind of feedback did you get?

Rajiv Varma
Mirror of DeCSS.

Veiwed From the Outside (4.50 / 2) (#42)
by underscore on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 11:18:45 PM EST

As a K5 newbie I'm attempting to tread lightly over new terrain . I'm only just becoming accustomed to K5 and posting here, so I'm focused on the general usage of the site and very much unaware of the mechanisms and politics for submitting and rating a submission.

My initial college studies were centred around Linguistics, Rhetoric, Philosophy and History. An added addiction to Euclidean Geometry and general logic gives me a strong bias toward approaching any writting as an attempt to implement rigorousness, robustness and elegance. These three ancient ideals require of any work that it derive value almost exclusively from the structure and content of the work. Because of this the article initially brought out a negative reaction to the focus given to things blantanly extraneous to the writting of an article. But as I read through the piece I realized it was more a communique to the writer's readership. By the time I had finished the article I was amused by the heretofore unusual circumstance of a writer being able to construct a feedback mechanism with his readership and wider political considerations. The aricle reflects one of the unique characteristics of the net.

cheers


a geek possessed of animal cunning
is a most fearsome adversary

-1 (3.75 / 4) (#43)
by ucblockhead on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 11:41:26 PM EST

I generally vote -1 without comment for one of the following reasons:
  • It was at all involved with politics, terrorism, 9-11, afghanistan, global capitalism or any other subject that are discussed better on the op-ed pages. I have yet to see even one of these that was as well informed as a crappy newspaper op-ed, and they generally just start pointless flamewars.
  • It is a "how I think Kuro5hin.org" should be fixed suggestion that has already been discussed. I know newbies take offense, but frankly, if you haven't been hear long, why do you think you know better how to fix it?
  • It's so badly written that there's no point in asking for a rewrite because it is clear the author either isn't up to the task, or is too lazy to do so.
  • Something that is an "MLP" because the submitter was too lazy to write a real story. This happens a lot. The excuse is always that the story is "important" and should be voted up because of its "importance". But if it is truly important, than it is worth the time to do it write.
  • Anything consisting of a few lines of platitudes, followed by "what do you think?"
  • Anything that is yet another entry in the annals of arguments never solved. (i.e. Gun Control, Abortion, Evolution vs. Creationism, etc.) We've all seen the arguments a million times.
  • Any conspiracy theories. (sorry greenrd!)
  • Any "science is all wrong" stories written by people who clearly didn't understand it in the first place.
  • Anything sexist or racist.
  • Obvious spam.
  • It is a diary entry. (i.e., it is all about someone's personal experiences, and those experiences aren't particularly exceptional.

If it is one of those, I will not bother commenting. This is because the above things generally aren't "fixable". If there were a requirement to post something, I would merely link to this comment.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup

Another one (none / 0) (#46)
by medham on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 01:48:06 AM EST

If you could just "hear long," then you wouldn't have to "do it write."

And, as I was adding the -1 voters on my latest story to my ever-growing enemies' list, I noticed that you voted against my "Slate: Won't Get Duped Again" story w/out explanation.

The reader can draw her own conclusions.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

I voted -1 on that (none / 0) (#49)
by ucblockhead on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 11:32:45 AM EST

Because it was uninformed. Its thesis was incorrect. I stated so here. I did not make it an editorial comment because the problem with the story was not editorial, but topical.

Given that commentary, one would think the reasoning behind the -1 would have been obvious.
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This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Comment rating one-liners (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by kzin on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 02:11:41 AM EST

I would really like comment ratings to have one-liners attached to them as well, just as the story suggests be done for story votes. With stories at least you have editorial comments. Often I wished to express my reason for a vote over a comment and did not like to waste everybody's brainwidth with something idiotic and irrelevant that I would probably feel quite comfortable posting as an editorial comment to a story.

Another thing that makes me like one-liners for both comment ratings and story votes is that they would be very quick and easy to use. You're already voting or rating -- typing an extra word in the attached input line is no extra effort. Posting a reply or an editorial comment, on the other hand, is more bother, and I think this is why people often don't do it unless they have have something more interesting to say than, say, "redundant". Overall, it could improve the value of ratings and votes too.

Voting Feedback | 49 comments (38 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
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