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[P]
jabber@kuro5hin.org

By Adam Theo in Meta
Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 09:41:10 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

I propose that K5 should set up its own Jabber server, to offer Jabber Instant Messaging accounts to its members.


Jabber is a popular (in fact quite likely the most popular) open source Instant Messaging platform on the 'Net.

However, I have noticed glaring misconceptions about Jabber not only in other forums, but also in K5! Therefore, so as not to assume (and make an ass out of Jabber), I will give some bullet points about Jabber, to inform you about exactly what Jabber is and isn't.

  • It was originally modeled after the e-mail system, and its architecture is still very similar, with many different Jabber servers in the world, each with its own set of users, and all able to talk to each other in a distributed client/server system (again, like e-mail).
  • Jabber is an open and free protocol, like SMTP (e-mail), that fully uses XML and XML Namespaces. Anyone can code up their own Jabber server or client, and distribute/use it how they want. You don't have to pay any royalty fees or ask permission to make something that uses the Jabber protocol.
  • Jabber is an Instant Messaging platform in its own right. As mentioned above, its protocol is entirely XML, and as mentioned below, it communicates with other IM systems. Jabber does not exist soley to communicate with other systems. It exists to ensure that Instant Messaging ends up like e-mail: Open and Free.
  • Jabber users are able to "talk" to users on other systems (AIM, ICQ, MSN, Y!, IRC, E-mail) by using the server-side Jabber Transports. Each server has its own set of Transports (although it doesn't have to), and if you don't like the transports on your host server, you can "browse" on over to another Jabber server and use its Transports, all without creating a new Jabber account on that other server.
  • The non-profit Jabber Software Foundation (or 'JSF') owns the Jabber protocol for everyone, and it is a democratically-run organization with elections every year (I'm considering running for a JSF council position myself in a few months).
  • There is a corporate, for-profit entity called Jabber, Inc that owns the Jabber trademark and employs many of the core development team. It was created in an early partnership between Webb Interactive and the early core Open Source team in order to bring much-needed funding to the project and aquire the trademark from the then-holder (a voice-recognition software company). It does not own Jabber, only the Jabber trademark!
  • There is no one "Jabber client" anymore than there is any one "E-mail client". What most people (mistakenly!) refer to as "the Jabber client" is the "Jabber Instant Messenger" created by Jabber, Inc. It is only one of many Jabber clients for the Windows platform (and in my opinion, far from the best).

With those out of the way, let me say I think a great added benefit to K5 would be to offer its own Jabber service. Either these Jabber accounts would be offered to all members, automatically upon creation of their K5 account; or it would only be offered to subscribers as an added bonus for dishing out that $5 a month.

Setting up the Jabber server is easy. I'm very experienced at it now, having run one of the most popular public Jabber servers for almost a year now. The Jabber Open Source Server (or 'JOSS') is now very stable and efficient, especially considering the amount of work it does (it's the Transports that can be resource-heavy, since they have to translate every incoming and outgoing message, back and forth). There are some very good Perl tools for Jabber. The powerful and easy to use Net::Jabber is probably the most useful. With it, Scoop would be able to interact with Jabber by barely lifting a finger.

By having a Jabber account on Kuro5hin.org, you could communicate with any other Jabber user on the Internet, not just other K5ers! Remember, Jabber is like e-mail, you can (and usually do) talk to users outside your own host domain. Kuro5hin.org could set up its own Jabber chatrooms for any Jabber user to come in and discuss in real-time chat, like IRC. In fact, there is an effort in the Jabber community to "link" IRC and Jabber chatrooms, so conversations are mirrored to each other.

Other than Net::Jabber and the Transports, Jabber has many other cool features. It is now being used in Radio Userland, soon in DotGNU as the default transport protocol, and has its own mini blogger, Jogger. It has web-based clients, global presence maps, and an interactive chess client.

And yes, I'm volunteering to run this Jabber server and make sure it stays as fast and reliable as my own. I would not need any special privileges to set it up or run it, the server runs as a normal user on the OS. The *only* possible work involved is to sync the current K5 user database with the Jabber user database. But if K5 uses an SQL database as I suspect, that will be fairly trivial, since the JOSS can also use SQL for its user database (along with ASCII XML files and LDAP).

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Poll
Should K5 Offer Jabber?
o Yes 62%
o No 11%
o Undecided/Abstain 19%

Votes: 102
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Scoop
o Kuro5hin
o Jabber
o server
o XML and XML Namespaces
o Jabber Software Foundation
o Jabber, Inc
o Webb Interactive
o Jabber, Inc [2]
o many Jabber clients
o dishing out that $5 a month
o one of the most popular public Jabber servers
o Jabber Open Source Server
o Net::Jabbe r
o used in Radio Userland
o DotGNU
o mini blogger, Jogger
o web-based clients
o global presence maps
o interactiv e chess client
o Also by Adam Theo


Display: Sort:
jabber@kuro5hin.org | 78 comments (58 topical, 20 editorial, 0 hidden)
What about e-mail? (4.57 / 7) (#1)
by vectro on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:34:34 AM EST

I propose that K5 should set up its own Sendmail server, to offer UNIX e-mail accounts to its members. Either these e-mail accounts would be offered to all members, automatically upon creation of their K5 account; or it would only be offered to subscribers as an added bonus for dishing out that $5 a month.

“The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
Deja Vu (4.16 / 6) (#4)
by Adam Theo on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:42:07 AM EST

Wow, if only I had a nickel for everytime something seemed redundant.... Huh, wait....

Why not both? They are not mutually exclusive, but I think a Jabber account would be alot more useful to the membership than YAEA (Yet Another Email Account).


-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
yaja (4.33 / 3) (#8)
by mlc on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:57:51 AM EST

I think a Jabber account would be alot more useful to the membership than YAEA (Yet Another Email Account)
Is there a shortage of Jabber accounts? I've personally used Jabber for a grand total of about 5 minutes, but I don't recall having any trouble getting an account on one of the freee public servers, and I can't think of a special reason why I'd need accounts on multiple servers. Is there some special reason why you think YAJA (Yet Another Jabber Account) would be more useful than YAEA?

--
So the Berne Convention is the ultimate arbiter of truth and morality. Is this like Catholicism? -- Eight Star
[ Parent ]

Good one (3.75 / 4) (#14)
by Adam Theo on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 02:04:13 AM EST

Hehe, nice use of acronyms.

To answer your question, I think people would rather get a Jabber account with a host they know and trust already. That is why a K5er would use their Kuro5hin.org Jabber account instead of going to the more popular Jabber.org or Jabber.com servers.


-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
K5 is not in the business of trust (4.00 / 2) (#45)
by vectro on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 03:20:48 PM EST

If trust is the key, then K5 should become a CA. But that's not gonna happen.

Why do you need to trust your Jabber server?

Why wouldn't it be preferable to have a Jabber address in addition to an e-mail address attached to K5 accounts? Pretty much any reason you can think of to have K5 jabber accounts could be applied to K5 email accounts.

“The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
[ Parent ]
Both! (none / 0) (#75)
by patrat on Mon Apr 29, 2002 at 09:12:32 PM EST

Having both would be very cool, then you'd get a single address for both Jabber and E-Mail... The whole is greater than the sum of its parts ;)
I never could think of a good sig
[ Parent ]
Re: yaja (3.33 / 3) (#44)
by elemental on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 02:32:10 PM EST

Is there some special reason why you think YAJA (Yet Another Jabber Account) would be more useful than YAEA?

The most obvious benefit is that you immedietely know how to reach someone, ie, <k5_account>@jabber.kuro5hin.org. It's a bit easier than trying to track down their Jabber ID elsewhere.


--
I love my country but I fear my government.
--> Contact info on my web site --


[ Parent ]
Email forwarding: good idea. Shell access: well... (none / 0) (#69)
by dlc on Tue Apr 23, 2002 at 09:04:06 AM EST

While I'm not sure that I would go so far as to endorse a shell server (it's potentially a huge securiy nightmare waiting to happen), I think the idea of email forwarding is a good one. It would be straightforward to setup an /etc/aliases file (or a host of .qmail- files, or whatever) from the Scoop database; a single dedicated Linux box (plus a failover, of course) would be more than adequate to handle this.

Offering this service as an incentive to subscribe is an even better idea... And offering shell access to subscribers for an extra fee might be a good money maker as well.


(darren)

It is wrong always, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.
W. K. Clifford


[ Parent ]
Scoop database => /etc/aliases (none / 0) (#70)
by dlc on Tue Apr 23, 2002 at 09:21:57 AM EST

I did a little homework, and this script should be sufficient to create an /etc/aliases file from the scoop database. It assumes mysql as a database, and that the mysql client is in your path. It needs the mysql connection params inserted into the command line (username, password, etc).

#!/bin/sh

> /tmp/aliases

mysql scoop <<EOSQL | while read nickname email; do nickname=`echo $nickname | tr " " "-"`; echo "$nickname: $email">> /tmp/aliases; done
select nickname, realemail from users
EOSQL

mv /tmp/aliases /etc/aliases
newaliases

It's simplistic, but it does work, and goes to show that it can be done trivially.


(darren)

It is wrong always, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.
W. K. Clifford


[ Parent ]
No need to generate /etc/aliases (none / 0) (#71)
by vectro on Tue Apr 23, 2002 at 11:50:47 AM EST

Most mailer daemons worth their salt can talk directly to an SQL database for such things as /etc/aliases. So no need to generate external files (and thus no need for nightly updates).

“The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
[ Parent ]
Parallel Idea (4.50 / 8) (#3)
by IoaPetraka on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:41:16 AM EST

That is a good suggestion. I had it in mind to suggest that K5 implement a sidebar chat system that a lot of community sites are incorporating now, such as the ones displayed at everything2, and PerlMonks. I think the neatest implementation I've seen is the one at Half-Empty. Not only does it allow you to chat in the sidebar, but you can hook into the web interface with a telnet client and interact with it real-time. Perhaps something similar could be done with this Jabber idea, using Perl to connect a central Jabber channel to a sidebar. That way, if someone did not wish to download the client and set up an account, they could just use the sidebar interface at the expense of it not being real-time.

.:.
Ioa Aqualine Petra'ka
That would be very doable (3.50 / 6) (#5)
by Adam Theo on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:44:06 AM EST

That is a cool idea. And one that's easily doable. I bet using Net::Jabber it could be done in under 20 lines of code.... Yeah, I really like that.


-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
Yeah (3.50 / 4) (#10)
by rajivvarma on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:59:08 AM EST

I've just tried the Half-Empty chat box, and it works very nicely.
Rajiv Varma
Mirror of DeCSS.

[ Parent ]
Cool idea (3.50 / 2) (#51)
by perealias on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 02:05:51 AM EST

Just had a look at the examples you have and it looks cool. With Jabber, it would be a breeze to put together a small piece of perl code which did that by connecting to a jabber conference server. I think I have code already laying around which does that. At first, I thought you meant like the sidebar in Mozilla, so I thought i'd point out http://jabberzilla.mozdev.org/ as an example of a jabber client in a mozilla sidebar.

[ Parent ]
Sure (4.91 / 12) (#22)
by rusty on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 02:57:40 AM EST

Much like the #kuro5hin IRC space, I have no problem with putting the dubiously valuable K5 Seal of Approval™ on some service that someone else wants to run for our collective benefit.

If the question is can we set it up on the K5 machines, the answer is going to be no, though. The servers are a Holy Place, and I don't want anything running on them that I don't fully understand and have control over. Whether I can say that for the scoop code and the database is aleady questionable enough, I think. :-)

If you, or anyone else, has a box and some bandwidth, I will be glad to arrange a DNS entry for jabber.kuro5hin.org pointing at the IP of your choice, and may even poke around in Net::Jabber and see if there's anything cool we could do with it. I'm also not sure about the user database thing, as no one, so far, has given explicit permission for their email address to go anywhere but into the dark depths of our database. But it could perhaps be an option: "Make me a K5 jabber account."

So, a qualified yes. I don't want to seem churlish* -- Jabber looks cool, and I'd be glad to support it. But by the same token, I have lots of other stuff to do.

--
* I got to use the word "churlish"!

____
Not the real rusty

Churlish (3.60 / 5) (#24)
by Adam Theo on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 03:04:18 AM EST

For those of us who don't know the word Churlish:

churl·ish (chūrlsh)
adj.
1. Of, like, or befitting a churl; boorish or vulgar.
2. Having a bad disposition; surly: "as valiant as the lion, churlish as the bear" (Shakespeare).
3. Difficult to work with, such as soil; intractable.

The things you learn on K5....
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
Jabber (5.00 / 3) (#25)
by Adam Theo on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 03:12:37 AM EST

OK, three points:

* I'm not expecting this to be an overnight thing. I'm more than willing to take time on it and help you and anyone else understand Jabber and the Jabber server. If the end results are better Jabber & K5 communities, I'm willing to spend more of my free time (which I now have quite a bit of, amazingly) to help make it happen. So, assuming I succeed in teaching everyone involved the finer points of how the Jabber server works....

* We could hopefully set it up on the K5 boxes (again, making that assumption for a few months down the road) so the domain used is kuro5hin.org and not the semi-ugly jabber.kuro5hin.org. Otherwise, I know of some boxes and bandwidth I could put it on, yes.

* And also, Rusty, you will have to do very little of the work. I wouldn't expect you to. I can easily rope in some suck... uhh... programmers to do this quick job of any scoop-jabber integration. I can think of a couple already. Their names are Nick, Peregrine, and QMacro... Hm, I feel some icy stares on my back already...
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
jabber.kuro5hin.org as opposed to kuro5hin.org (4.00 / 4) (#31)
by Scott Robinson on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:44:58 AM EST

Since rusty has offered a DNS pointer from the kuro5hin.org namespace, I doubt the Jabber server must be on the "kuro5hin.org" server.

At least, during Jabber's early development (when I was still involved) this wasn't necessary. In the beginning we used reversed order MX records. I imagine they use something less hacky now.

Scott.


[ Parent ]
yes, a DNS SRV entry for kuro5hin.org (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by jeremie on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 12:21:16 PM EST

You can host a jabber @domain on a different server just as with email and an MX record, by using DNS SRV. There is a few more details in the IETF Draft.

The name jabber.kuro5hin.org would still be used by/for clients as the authorative host to login to.

Jer

PS: Heya Scott :)

[ Parent ]

K5 boxen (4.50 / 4) (#39)
by rusty on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:11:06 PM EST

What we could do is put a machine for it in the colo. That way, it could transparently appear as "kuro5hin.org" because we can just route all jabber requests to it. That would definitely work for me.

About the username thing, could we just use [k5 nick]@kuro5hin.org as jabber ids? Like, do they have to be actual email addresses, or can we fake it that way? Nicks are already unique here, so that requirement would be satisfied. Does jabber have restrictions on the character set for ids?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

fake it that way (4.00 / 1) (#46)
by Eivind on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:10:00 PM EST

Hi !

Yes we can use [nickname]@kuro5hin.org as the jabber-adress, this does *Not* need to be a genuine email, it only looks like an email-adress in being of a user@server format.

[ Parent ]
It doesn't interfere with or rely on e-mail.... (none / 0) (#58)
by neutralstone on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 06:37:17 PM EST

....it's just that Jabber IDs *look* like email addresses. So Eivind is right :)

About character set limitations:

From the IETF protocol draft: http://www.jabber.org/ietf/draft-miller-jabber-00.html

Any Unicode character higher than U+0020 may be included in a node identifier, with the exception of the following:

* U+0022 (")
* U+0026 (&)
* U+0027 (')
* U+003a (:)
* U+003C (<)
* U+003E (>)
* U+0040 (@)

...so basically, no restrictions. Use korean, hebrew, chinese, and arabic in the same username if you want to. ;)

---
jabber:ns/*at*/neutralstone/*dot*/net
For Loops: part of a balanced NP-complete breakfast.
[ Parent ]
Re: Jabber (2.50 / 2) (#42)
by elemental on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 02:25:55 PM EST

... so the domain used is kuro5hin.org and not the semi-ugly jabber.kuro5hin.org.

A better name might be @im.kuro5hin.org. It's nice and short and not nearly as ugly. The company I work for uses this format for our internal Jabber server, so my work Jabber ID is <login>@im.corp.<company>.net.


--
I love my country but I fear my government.
--> Contact info on my web site --


[ Parent ]
Rusty, I would just like to remind you... (1.37 / 16) (#27)
by Stick on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 03:17:58 AM EST

That I will buy a text advert if I can link it to goatse.cx. Thank you.


---
Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
[ Parent ]
just link to (2.71 / 7) (#28)
by Cal Bunny on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:08:45 AM EST

hick.org/goat instead.

^cb^
Kudos to you for warping my fragile little mind. --communist
[
Parent ]
I'd still prefer goatse.cx all the same (2.00 / 4) (#29)
by Stick on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:18:58 AM EST

I'm a traditionalist.


---
Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
[ Parent ]
Why? (3.66 / 3) (#30)
by panum on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:30:52 AM EST

I am curious. Why would you make a link to goatse.cx? IMAO that site is disgusting, but that apparently is not the point. Would you care to enlightment me a bit?

-P

-- I hate people who quote .sigs
[ Parent ]
I just want to help K5 (1.80 / 5) (#33)
by Stick on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 06:23:42 AM EST

I also want more people to know the joy of the big red hole.


---
Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
[ Parent ]
no no (2.33 / 3) (#47)
by nodsmasher on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 04:26:07 PM EST

thats exactly the point
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most people don't realise just how funny cannibalism can actually be.
-Tatarigami
[ Parent ]
Told you already (3.66 / 3) (#38)
by rusty on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:03:05 PM EST

$250,000 CPM. In this case, I'll waive the 4,000 impression minimum, Let me know when you're ready, and I'll tell you where to mail the cashier's chekc. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Very Nice. (3.50 / 4) (#34)
by Sairon on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 09:27:42 AM EST

Thank you for the intro to jabber. I think you have a great idea. I for one am very excited about Jabber. I'm very interested in seeing what is already being done with integration with IRC. I'd love to see how it could be integrated with scoop. I'm not sure how usefull I'd be, but if there is anything that I can do, I will.
Jared

IRC 'chatrooms'? Give me a fscking break. (2.46 / 13) (#35)
by arcade on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 10:07:07 AM EST

On IRC, its called _CHANNELS_. I'm so fscking Fed Up with all the morons calling IRC Channels for ChatRooms that I usually kickban'em on sight.

Just my pet pieve.



--
arcade
Hrm... (2.75 / 8) (#40)
by mike on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 01:23:44 PM EST

Personally, my pet peeve is people who can't spell... ;)
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
mike
[ Parent ]
Thanks ;) (none / 0) (#57)
by arcade on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 01:52:23 PM EST

Thanks for correcting me.

Now, when typing that, I typed pieve, peive, pive, and none of them seemed right. English isn't my native language, so hell, guess I'll have to live with a few such errors now and then ;)



--
arcade
[ Parent ]
hi to u (1.00 / 1) (#53)
by J'raxis on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 03:17:15 AM EST

hi room
asl
ne1 ctc??

— The DALnet Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

Now I don't think I fully get this... (2.33 / 3) (#37)
by PsychoFurryEwok on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 12:49:35 PM EST

I read the site, maybe I just missed something...but am I correct in that Jabber (any number of the clients) does not work unless you have a server to connect to for it?

Read about jabber here. (3.50 / 2) (#43)
by fr2ty on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 02:27:15 PM EST

FAQ at Jabber.Inc
BTW, it is only one click away from one of the links in the article.
--
Please note that are neither capitals nor numbers in my mail adress.
[ Parent ]
Correct (none / 0) (#63)
by Adam Theo on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 01:25:31 PM EST

Yes, correct. Jabber is currently a very client/server system, like e-mail. You have to have a Jabber account with one of the many Jabber servers out there (or set up your own Jabber server if you don't trust any other hosts).
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
forwarder/redirector (4.50 / 2) (#49)
by Acous on Sat Apr 20, 2002 at 11:25:36 PM EST

Is there such thing in JabberLand as a JID redirector? it would be cool if i could set my jabberID in user prefs and have anyone trying to contact acous@kuro5hin.org be sent to acous@jabber.org, instead of fiddling around with trying to log into 2 accounts. customizable alerts via jabber would rock. for example, people could set their JID as 12345@icq.server.dom and get alerts to icq etc. just from using the jabber backend.

Re: JID Filter (4.50 / 2) (#52)
by perealias on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 02:08:56 AM EST

There is a way to do this with jabber, using the mod_filter module in the jabber server. You can set up rules such as redirect, autorespond or reject which the server will apply to messages being sent to that JID

[ Parent ]
The downsides? (none / 0) (#54)
by Master Of Ninja on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 10:22:59 AM EST

This sounds like a great idea - a jabber server, and possibly an email server. But I'm considering the downsides here. What about spam to and from the kuro5hin servers?

I've seen recent stories about how people are starting to spam IM systems now (I'm too lazy to find a link at the moment). If a jabber server was set up, how would the administrator (I'm assuming it won't be rusty) propose to filter the spam. And what about spam from the kuro5hin account itself? What are the proposals to handle this? Another concern would be if people are able to "forge the headers" of the IM system, so spam seems to come from a kuro5hin account (i have no clue how jabber works, so I'm drawing parallels to email).

I'm taking that the service might be a paid-for service, but what about kuro5hin "trolls" (in the future, possibly like the slashdot variety) who abuse the system. Will the effort needed to police these people outwiegh the resources available to do so, so that the 'core' discussion site is neglected?

I don't mean to sound negative, because I like the idea myself, but someone needs to consider the downsides to the idea, mainly to have systems to protect themselves against jabber/email abuses in the future.

I like SpamAssassin for email... (none / 0) (#55)
by tzanger on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 12:54:08 PM EST

I happen to really like SpamAssassin for email (we're using it for all email for our small ISP); I wonder if it could be adapted to filtering Jabber messages.

It already has a decent C client/server which keeps only one instance of the Perl parser in memory and can do per-user configurations/scores/whitelist/blacksts and store everything in a database... I would imagine that it would have a LOT less traffic than our ISP, and a lot of the scoring coudl be removed since it deals with headers or large emails...



[ Parent ]
A very good point (none / 0) (#64)
by Adam Theo on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 01:28:55 PM EST

That's a very good point. Someone suggested adapting SpamAssasin. That would work. Also, there is Vipul's Razor, which I've been wanting to adopt to Jabber.
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
Instant problem (none / 0) (#56)
by tzanger on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 12:55:44 PM EST

I already have a jabber account on my own server. Now I have to register one here so that some ass doesn't grab tzanger@jabber.k5.org and impersonate me. Lovely.

Aside: I would love to know if it's possible to "relay" JUDs.. i.e. tzanger@jabber.k5.org to my own JUD...



Database linking (none / 0) (#66)
by Adam Theo on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 01:34:00 PM EST

I'd like to link the K5 user database with the K5 Jabber database. Have them work off the same usernames, so since you already have tzanger as your K5 nick, you would automatically have tzanger@kuro5hin.org as a JID. You can use it or have it forward to your other one, I imagine.
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
I really like that idea [nt] (none / 0) (#67)
by tzanger on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 01:51:06 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I am not sure. (3.50 / 2) (#59)
by /dev/trash on Sun Apr 21, 2002 at 07:21:12 PM EST

Is this a discussion site with content on-site or is it a portal to facilitate communication elsewhere?

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Updated 02/20/2004
New Site
Tricky (none / 0) (#65)
by Adam Theo on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 01:31:07 PM EST

I'd say K5 is a community discussion site for on-site discussion, but it could also help facilitate discussion elsewhere. Also, why not try and merge the different methods of discussion? Just some thoughts.
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
On messaging services: (none / 0) (#60)
by auraslip on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 07:22:08 AM EST

This has always worried me, with aim having a monopoly of the NORMAL users online communication, what will happen when the start charging fees? They allready own ICQ, and switching to msn, is out of the question as they will probally charge fees too.
If you look at their market, they almost have every reason to starting charging fee's. Their service has become a necessity. I don't know what I'd do without aim, and I know most of my freinds feel the same.
Someone needs to come up with a solution to this, and not just Jabber, which seems to hard and to limited(each server has differant names and they aren't connected!) for the non-technicly enabled person to set up. What we need is a system that looks like and feels like aim, but is free(opensource?) and will always be.
124
aren't connected? (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by hackerhue on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 12:05:21 PM EST

What do you mean the servers aren't connected? It's pretty easy to send a message to a user on another server. Just like email. And there's nothing wrong with the servers having different names -- people have no problems with email servers having different names. As for looking and feeling like AIM, all that we need in Jabber is a client that looks and feels like AIM -- although IM clients are usually pretty simple, so I don't see a point in this. And I don't see why you claim Jabber is too hard (note: two "o"s). It's about as simple to use as any other IM client, I've found.

[ Parent ]
It seems... (none / 0) (#72)
by codespace on Tue Apr 23, 2002 at 07:57:20 PM EST

That we've come full-circle. Log onto IRC sometime, where it all started.

_____
today on how it's made: kitchen knives, mannequins, socks and hypodermic needles.
[ Parent ]
Random ideas (4.00 / 2) (#62)
by hackerhue on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 12:14:13 PM EST

  • An (optional) online presence indicator in the header of your posts.
  • Jabber notification of new stories, new replies to your comments, and/or new comments in hotlisted stories.
  • Hmm. Post comments via Jabber? I'm thinking when someone replies to your comment, you get their comment via Jabber. Then you reply to that comment through Jabber, and it gets posted. I'd imagine that this would take a lot of coding, though.
(Of course, none of these stories is dependent on K5 having a public Jabber server.)

I must be asleep. (none / 0) (#68)
by hackerhue on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 11:16:13 PM EST

Why on earth would I write "stories" there? That last remark should read "Of course, none of these ideas is dependent on K5 having a public Jabber server."

[ Parent ]
msn (and others) blocking jabber servers (4.00 / 1) (#73)
by erikg on Thu Apr 25, 2002 at 08:13:22 AM EST

I just started using Jabber a month ago, and I absolutely love it. However, it seems that most of my non-technical friends prefer using msn, as it is so neatly integrated into windows - which we all know and love.

Up until yesterday I had an account on jabber.org, but the msn gateway went down after a couple of weeks, and has been down for three weeks now. I tried setting up my own server, but the dialback s2s system prevents it from working in a NAT environment - so I changed to your theoretic.org server.

I don't know the reason for the msn gateway outage, but I have been reading that certain commercial im systems are blocking large jabber servers to force users to start using their "better" system. Is this a widespread problem? Because I can't change acounts (servers) every few weeks because of msn blockage.

And isn't blocking these servers a bit rude? I mean, when you have an account somewhere, it should be up to you how you wish to access your account (either through a jabber gateway, with a msn client or via a web-interface or whatever)?


no MSN blockage (none / 0) (#74)
by Adam Theo on Thu Apr 25, 2002 at 05:04:59 PM EST

I agree on the fact that it seems a good deal unfair to block their own users. Just because they don't use the ad-ridden official clients is no reason to keep them from their accounts. Those other IM networks should find other ways to make money.

But that's not the issue here. I'm not aware of MSN starting to block. What likely happened on the jabber.org server is that its MSN transport crashed and they have not gotten around to fixing it. That seems to happen alot on the jabber.org server, which is one reason why my own server, theoretic.com, has become so popular. I try to take very good care of it, and make sure it is always running and up-to-date.

The lesson to be learned here, though, is whenever you can't access an outside system, it's that server's or other system's fault, not jabber as a whole. You can alwyas use the transports from another jabber server.
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]
MSN Messenger (none / 0) (#78)
by Korimyr the Rat on Mon May 06, 2002 at 03:00:55 PM EST

It's actually the integration into Windows that I dislike about MSN.

 By popping up the notifier about new messages over the clock (which I can't figure out how to turn off), it obscures part of my screen, when the noise and flashing taskbar are all the notification I want.

--
"Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein
Founding Member of 'Retarded Monkeys Against the Restriction of Weapons Privileges'
[ Parent ]

Need a Solid Client (none / 0) (#76)
by cione on Wed May 01, 2002 at 12:20:57 PM EST

I have tried three clients and all have given me some form of an error.

I have to run Windows at work well because thats my job. Does anyone know of a solid Client that will work without trashing the box I have all my work on?
_________________________________________________
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. --Voltaire

WinJab, Exodus, Rival (none / 0) (#77)
by Adam Theo on Thu May 02, 2002 at 01:59:31 PM EST

There is WinJab, which is a good, but old, client http://winjab.sf.net

Then there is the new Exodus, which is being done by the same guy who did WinJab. He is applying everything he learned from WinJab into Exodus. It is beta, but many other people use it as their main client now anyway. It's stable enough. http://exodus.sf.net

Then there is Rival, which is a spiffy little client that has alot of potential to take on the official AIM & MSN clients, I think. It's v3 is in beta, but might be worth a try. If not, try the v2. http://rival.chote.net

Then there is also Psi which I don't know the lnik to right off. You can get most of the clients from http://www.jabbercentral.com/clients
-- "A computer geek free-market socialist patriotic American Buddhist."
[ Parent ]

jabber@kuro5hin.org | 78 comments (58 topical, 20 editorial, 0 hidden)
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