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A Community-Edited Guide to K5

By sebpaquet in Meta
Mon May 27, 2002 at 11:11:21 PM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)

Kuro5hin's content is strongly structured in the form of user-submitted stories and comment threads. This is perfect for news or focused discussions. However there are kinds of content that are relevant to the community but for which the story format is not very well suited. Here are two examples:

  • Every now and then, someone points out that Kuro5hin has featured some genuinely classic stories and that we really ought to have a "Greatest Hits" repository of some sort. Putting the best stories on display would help attract talented contributors and could be expected to generally raise the quality of new submissions.
  • Every so often, someone points out that there should be a "Welcome Center" to help new k5ers understand the microculture that has grown here around interactions between members.
Ko4ting Wiki is an attempt to provide an appropriate medium for such "wisdom distillation" efforts.

Sponsor: rusty
This space intentionally left blank
...because it's waiting for your ad. So why are you still reading this? Come on, get going. Read the story, and then get an ad. Alright stop it. I'm not going to say anything else. Now you're just being silly. STOP LOOKING AT ME! I'm done!
comments (24)
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For those who don't know what a Wiki is, the shortest formula for this is "the Web with write permissions". That's right, you can edit any page you like or create new pages. Revision histories (including author's nick or IP address) are accessible, making it easy to restore an earlier version of a page to correct erroneous information or to undo a deletion. A simplified HTML syntax enables easy formatting and facilitates hyperlinking within the site. Backlinks enable you to obtain a list of the pages that link into any particular page. A continuously updated list of the recently changed pages lets you locate activity in the Wiki.

(Sidenote: Wiki technology is increasingly being used by communities of interest to pursue collaborative knowledge or information structuring activities.)

So the idea is this: users who have general advice or pointers to K5 content that goes along the lines I have drawn above can contribute it right away by editing the site. Be forewarned: Wiki is not Scoop. Be prepared to have your text so ruthlessly edited or restructured as to become unrecognizable. The notion of authorship in a Wiki is very diluted.

As a first step in building the resource, I organized the site into a few sections and put links to relevant stories in what I considered to be appropriate places. Of course, I probably haven't done everything right. However, wikis are remarkably adaptable: the very structure of the site is yours to manipulate and enhance.

It remains to see how the experiment will unfold. In the worst case, I presume the initiative will die a quiet death. There is also the possibility (although the success of other wikis suggests otherwise) that it won't be possible to keep the quality high, as this requires committed editors. But what I'm hoping for is that some of our most knowledgeable members will be willing to throw in bits of wisdom here and there. It would be great to see the site grow and sprout new branches as new needs are identified.

All kinds of suggestions for improving the resource are welcome, although I'd rather you went ahead and implemented them yourself by editing the site! Have fun!


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What will happen of Ko4ting?
o People will enjoy consulting and contributing. 29%
o People will use it but won't contribute. 10%
o No one will visit. 23%
o One word: crapflood. 35%

Votes: 67
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Scoop
o points
o out
o points
o out [2]
o Ko4ting Wiki
o Wiki
o simplified HTML syntax
o site
o Also by sebpaquet

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A Community-Edited Guide to K5 | 57 comments (52 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
Excellent idea! (5.00 / 3) (#1)
by TheophileEscargot on Mon May 27, 2002 at 03:10:53 PM EST

I've been hoping for a K5-related wiki for a while.

I was thinking of it mainly as a way of collaborating on stories. Is it OK to use it to put up first drafts of stories, to allow other people to help create it?

Also, I have a backlog of half-completed or not-good-enough stories. I'm wondering about putting them up to see if anyone else wants to take a crack at it...
Support the nascent Mad Open Science movement... when we talk about "hundreds of eyeballs," we really mean it. Lagged2Death

Well, I've gone ahead (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by TheophileEscargot on Mon May 27, 2002 at 03:22:49 PM EST

I've created a StoryCollaborations page, and put a half-finished story there.

Maybe a bit cheeky, but anyone who doesn't like the idea can just delete it anyway... if the links don't work, that's probably why: I have tested them.
Support the nascent Mad Open Science movement... when we talk about "hundreds of eyeballs," we really mean it. Lagged2Death
[ Parent ]

Neat idea. I changed the page title. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by sebpaquet on Mon May 27, 2002 at 03:44:34 PM EST

I'm happy that people are already coming up with new ideas on how to use the tool. I've changed the name of your page. Although it's a superficial issue from a coder's point of view, CamelCase is in my opinion one of the chief reasons Wikis didn't become popular faster. Doublebrackets enable free-form links, which are really easier to read.

[ Parent ]
Preach on, brother (none / 0) (#9)
by Eloquence on Mon May 27, 2002 at 03:56:28 PM EST

Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy · Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
spread the word!
[ Parent ]
What's CamelCase? (nt) (none / 0) (#20)
by jacoplane on Mon May 27, 2002 at 07:27:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Capitalisation (none / 0) (#27)
by Ranieri on Tue May 28, 2002 at 03:15:57 AM EST

Running together words by capitalising the first letter of every word. SortOfLikeThisIfYouUnderstandWhatIMean. VeryConfusingForLongerNames.
The capitals look like humps of a camel.

Wiki relies on these kind of names to make autolinks.
"Look, Hoagie, it's a hamster! Just what I need for dissection lab tomorrow!"
[ Parent ]

Excellent idea (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Eloquence on Mon May 27, 2002 at 03:55:19 PM EST

I've been wanting to spend time adding wiki functionality to Scoop for quite a while, but other obligations have so far precluded me from doing so. Obviously it would be nicer to have a wiki integrated into the main site, which could also replace the edit queue and serve as a breeding ground for permanent articles, but an off-site wiki is better than none at all. I don't really like the name though -- perhaps a brainstorming page should be created on the wiki to find a better one? Also, please drop the "klassic" lingo, there's no need to kimitate KDE here.
Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy · Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
spread the word!
Integration with Scoop would be better indeed (none / 0) (#13)
by sebpaquet on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:07:13 PM EST

but it was obviously easier to start the thing independently. If it flies, and Wikis get integrated into Scoop, I'm all for moving the content over to K5 proper.

[ Parent ]
Name brainstorm page is up (none / 0) (#14)
by sebpaquet on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:14:02 PM EST

This page is for new name suggestions.

[ Parent ]
Come on, it's just a website! [TM] (2.00 / 7) (#10)
by Estanislao Martínez on Mon May 27, 2002 at 04:37:23 PM EST

Didn't you know?


Excellent (3.00 / 2) (#11)
by gazbo on Mon May 27, 2002 at 04:40:54 PM EST

I think this is a wonderful idea - the one issue I have is the use of, as you put it, simplified HTML syntax.

My first problem is that I don't really see how it is simplified at all (except for the cross referencing) It uses an almost completely ad-hoc set of meta characters mixed with a couple of HTML tags (<i /> etc). If you're using some HTML tags then why not use them for everything?

But my personal gripe against this language aside, it is just out of place with K5. K5 allows input as plain text (not flexible enough), HTML (no real problem, some people don't want to learn it) or autoformat. It seems to me that it would make more sense to base a K5 meta-site around the autoformat language. It is far more concise, more consistent, and IMHO simpler than the wiki language. Once again though, the cross referencing facility is needed.

I think it would be ideal to do a 'fun' merge of K5's autoformat comment parsing code and the wiki formatting code. But even if this isn't changed (somehow I doubt it will be) then this site is still a great idea.

+1FP when out of editing.

Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

why can't it be changed? (none / 0) (#29)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:18:39 AM EST

how hard could it be...perl to java...

[ Parent ]
I didn't realise it was as easy as perl -> java (4.00 / 3) (#33)
by gazbo on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:44:56 AM EST

Java 1.4 has regexp support, Perl programs are always regular expression...simply include the Perl code as a string literal, and run it through the regexp engine.


Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

um (none / 0) (#34)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 07:02:50 AM EST

Somehow I got the idea wiki was in java, but apparently it's in perl...so even easier, I presume...

[ Parent ]
I give you ... ZWiki! (none / 0) (#43)
by spcmanspiff on Tue May 28, 2002 at 12:07:55 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Why would someone (2.00 / 1) (#15)
by mami on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:22:18 PM EST

make a good effort to write something just to get it edited beyond recognition by some .... you know "those" there

"The notion of authorship is very diluted in a Wiki"...just the notion of authorship?

You bet I would .. (none / 0) (#21)
by Eloquence on Mon May 27, 2002 at 07:34:13 PM EST

.. love to edit some of your comments :-)
Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy · Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
spread the word!
[ Parent ]
the beauty is, you can't. :-) (2.00 / 1) (#24)
by mami on Mon May 27, 2002 at 09:40:43 PM EST

I remember, the during the first days I came to K5, I wanted the right to edit my own comments.

It was harshly denied, and I was lectured how bad that is, how much against free speech, how fascist and dangerous that would be. Someone could quote someone else out of context, they said, because the edited comments in the threads wouldn't tell the truth anymore, could be used to blackmail someone, pressure him, badmouth etc..etc..etc.

Now, where you have to live with your and my comments, you want the opposite. Well, well, what can I say.

The day you could edit my comments (or if Rusty ever starts to mess with the archives and sells them to the money eaters), I would run faaaaaar away and never return. I bet you would miss me. :-)

Ok, peace, it's Memorial Day and I already cried on and off today for no other reason than that I am homesick and miss my family.

Who knows whom I cry for next year's Memorial Day. No more mean comments. It's just not the right thing to do today.

[ Parent ]

Already being put to the test... (4.00 / 2) (#16)
by sebpaquet on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:42:07 PM EST

As could have been expected, Someone with time to kill is trying to see if the wiki will stand vandalism. While s/he is obviously not trying to demonstrate prowess (anyone could do it), resistance against these attempts is in part what will determine the usefulness of the site.

The only way to keep the site alive and well is to revert malicious changes. To do this, if you see a page that does not seem kosher, visit the revision history for the page and view a good previous version; then save it. It's pretty quick to do.

If it turns out there are not enough people with good intentions, I guess we'll simply have to drop the idea and try something else.

best sigs (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous 23477 on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:55:08 PM EST

I take credit for adding Wiredog's sig to the list!
"one masturbation reference per 13 K5ers" --rusty

That's scary (none / 0) (#41)
by wiredog on Tue May 28, 2002 at 09:42:31 AM EST

Since it's a fiarly randon sig anyway.

I did manage to get comment number 42 on the Doug Adams story.

"one masturbation reference per 13 K5ers" --Rusty
[ Parent ]

Feature wish (none / 0) (#18)
by Scrymarch on Mon May 27, 2002 at 05:55:45 PM EST

Just tried adding some stories to the classic stories page and I already have a feature wish.

It would be really handy if authors could be automatically cross-referenced to k5.  When wikis go into threads the auto-attribution is handy.  Big wiki users (at least on the XP wiki) have user pages, so they will sign off their contribution and people can find out who they are.

The solutions that occur are adding an author:blah tag that converts into http://kuro5hin.org/user/blah, or running a script to create an auto k4 wiki home page for each k5 user.  Or have people create a wiki user page manually that points to their k5 user page.  But that would be an effort :)

an effort (none / 0) (#38)
by kubalaa on Tue May 28, 2002 at 08:16:53 AM EST

Most attempts to extend wikis with automatic things like this usually end up going against the WikiSpirit. Making your own author page is NOT so much effort.

[ Parent ]
Hah! (none / 0) (#53)
by Scrymarch on Fri May 31, 2002 at 03:18:30 PM EST

Looks like someone disagrees :) .  I see how it could be a problem, but this is a kind of shortcut for power users, I think it helps.  I don't see a real need to add other tags.

[ Parent ]
image (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by rhyax on Mon May 27, 2002 at 06:16:04 PM EST

what is the huge image with squares and rectangles for?

Squares and Rectangles (none / 0) (#40)
by jonathan_ingram on Tue May 28, 2002 at 09:15:35 AM EST

It's a poorly generated animated GIF, which doesn't display properly on any browser I've tried so far.
-- Jon
[ Parent ]
ha! (1.50 / 2) (#22)
by nodsmasher on Mon May 27, 2002 at 09:21:36 PM EST

sombody just took out the entire text of the front page
Most people don't realise just how funny cannibalism can actually be.
not anymore (4.66 / 3) (#26)
by Anonymous 23477 on Mon May 27, 2002 at 11:14:55 PM EST

I fixed it
Although I must point out that user's reverse lookup name: baboon29.arach.net.au

And no one has been able to help me do normal links like this one so that it doesn't show up with brackets on it!

[ Parent ]

Urk.... (2.00 / 3) (#23)
by Talez on Mon May 27, 2002 at 09:26:44 PM EST

  1. Crapflood... People (like me) will crapflood just to prove how flawed your idea is. It's not stupid, just flawed.
  2. The "easy" HTML formatting scheme sucks. Give me the option to write raw HTML if I want to.
The easiest way to fix the biggest flaw would be to have only part of the site edited. Being able to fool around with the formatting layout of the site would suck as you'd just get a bunch of Klerick wannabes doing the whole page widening deal.

Second, you need a way to "filter" known spam/abuse IPs. Anonymous changes = bad as well.

The idea has potential but I just can't see it yet.

Si in Googlis non est, ergo non est

Why do you want to crapflood (4.50 / 2) (#30)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:29:02 AM EST

if crapflooding is so easy?

[ Parent ]
crapflood just to prove (5.00 / 5) (#37)
by kubalaa on Tue May 28, 2002 at 08:09:12 AM EST

Let's be honest here. You're not doing anybody a favor by "proving" this -- in fact, it's a cyclical argument: "People will crapflood, therefore I will crapflood, therefore..." You're still just another jerk crapflooder, whatever clever rationalization you think you may have. When you get tired of it, then the wiki will pick itself up and move on -- fortunately the majority of people aren't such assholes that this problem comes up often.

The reason HTML isn't allowed is to prevent problems with bad (accidental or intentional) HTML, and to enforce a content-over-style mindset.

Anyways, the proof is in the pudding; there are many many wikis, and they are a great resource for certain kinds of things. Whether you "get it" or not doesn't have any bearing on reality.

[ Parent ]

Regarding best stories (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by jacoplane on Mon May 27, 2002 at 09:54:38 PM EST

Maybe it would be an idea that once stories have been posted, users could vote on the quality of the story on a scale of 1-5. High rated stories could go into a K5 top 100 or something.

Stories as Comments (none / 0) (#28)
by Ranieri on Tue May 28, 2002 at 03:20:12 AM EST

It has always sort of been a long-term plan of Rusty's top vote on queue stories as we do on comments, by averaging 1-5 votes.
This alleviates some of the problems of additive voting, such as the fact that the vote doen not become more "stable" as more votes are counted. The Slashdot comment system is a prime example of this.

It would be natural to tie this feature into this mechanism once it's implemented.
"Look, Hoagie, it's a hamster! Just what I need for dissection lab tomorrow!"
[ Parent ]

why not rank by number of page loads (none / 0) (#31)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:31:42 AM EST

include checks for unique ips and such if you must...

[ Parent ]
Popular != Good (none / 0) (#32)
by Ranieri on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:44:25 AM EST

It might work when you are in high school, but usually things are a bit more complicated.
siliconcarne.org - Where flesh and technology meat

[ Parent ]
That depends on your users.... (none / 0) (#35)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 07:12:49 AM EST

Besides you could edit or add your own opinion next to the popular ranking.

[ Parent ]
Quality (4.50 / 2) (#36)
by codemonkey_uk on Tue May 28, 2002 at 07:49:33 AM EST

Assessing quality is subjective. How do you propose to apply quality control? Who decides what is a "classic" and what is not. I note that Sig11's awful almost-suicide note, arguably a "worst ever" is in the "best ever" list.

I could just go in and delete it, but then that would result in a wiki version war, without discussion.
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell

A poll, perhaps? (4.00 / 1) (#39)
by sebpaquet on Tue May 28, 2002 at 08:18:33 AM EST

Good point. I think most people won't be at ease removing others' nominations, so the list can be expected to grow indefinitely. I guess I'll eventually set up a poll to decide which stories will stay at the top and which ones are going to get listed on a "consolation prize" page.

[ Parent ]
Personally (none / 0) (#48)
by trane on Tue May 28, 2002 at 09:32:12 PM EST

I would like links to the rejected stories too, since I like to have the option of not relying on the "community's" idea of what is good and what is not.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm (4.00 / 1) (#42)
by axxeman on Tue May 28, 2002 at 11:14:48 AM EST

This could be considered a real test of the wiki concept in a hostile environment. Most others I've seen talk about "mistakes" and "newbies" wrecking some content (which is then restored by the amnivolent other users), but few mention concentrated attacks.

It should have been called "bu8ba" tho.

Not yet. Don't come before we have finished humping...

Community pools doomed to failure (3.00 / 1) (#44)
by Sacrifice on Tue May 28, 2002 at 02:55:55 PM EST

A community pool would never work.  As soon as you let people in, somebody will shit their drawers, and everyone will have to be evacuated while HazMat cleans up.

I wonder if the same pattern will hold 50 years from now when the juvenille dick-wavers finally get easy access to weapons of mass destruction.

The question is: if it's so easy to vandalize, what is the attraction?  

The answer apparently is: the thrill of getting away with it.

Vacant buildings are vandalized more often than occupied ones (and a building's lifespan has been shortened considerably by even one broken window - the harm is still there).

It's ironic that in this forum, "someone will just crapflood" is considered an astute and worthwhile judgment on a community resource.


Community Top X & Hotlist Top X (4.50 / 2) (#45)
by vastor on Tue May 28, 2002 at 06:41:28 PM EST

Why not just take all the entries in hotlists, see which 25 stories are most hotlisted and make them a top story index.

Sure it may not be the really best set of 25, but it'd be a relatively easy way of automating things and those stories that people want hotlisted to refer back to are likely to be atleast good in some regard.

Could even do a split system - top 10 community selected stories (have a meta article where people post the story they like most as comments, the comments with the highest comment score are then selected for the top ten) and then add below it the top ten from the hotlist - it'd be interesting to compare the two sets as well. The community meta vote would be good for a once off get it setup event (maybe repeated quarterly?) while the
 hotlist could wait until someone has the time (since it'd take much more effort to setup than just posting a meta story).

I'm not sure that wiki need have anything to do with this. Infact, I'd think static webpages would be better suited to top stories and a welcome to K5 page than dynamic ones as ideally you want new people seeing what the "community" deems a consensus rather than something that is always changing depending on who last played with it (which isn't to say the community expectations aren't changing, but consistancy is something new people would benefit from).

Potential liability (2.00 / 1) (#46)
by jcolter on Tue May 28, 2002 at 07:40:06 PM EST

This could be possibly way of base, but I was wondering about the reproduction rights of linked stories on this Wiki.  I know that I give K5 the perpetual right to use my stories and comments, but I am afraid that this could be construed as secondary rights, thus leaving the sebpaquet (and possibly all of us liable).

Keep in mind I think the project is definitely worth doing.  It seems however that it might be a good idea to transfer the actual site to Rusty under the K5 domain.  

Any thoughts?

I take it back (4.00 / 1) (#47)
by jcolter on Tue May 28, 2002 at 07:55:39 PM EST

Ok I think it should work fine as it only lists links.  

I guess the only concern I have is if someone actually publishes a whole article from K5.

Of course that could be easily removed per an author's request.

[ Parent ]

Good solution for the wrong problem (4.00 / 1) (#49)
by bodrius on Wed May 29, 2002 at 02:37:45 AM EST

I like the idea of a Kuro5hin Wiki; although I'm not exactly a big fan of the Wiki liberal editing policy, that's just my paranoid self talking. I know it works well in certain, programming-oriented, circles.

The problem I see with the idea is that I don't think it solves any of the two issues you mention:

- "Greatest Hits": If anything, I would think a Wiki is the worst possible place to put such a thing.
   Of course, you are posting links so the stories themselves are not affected, but having the ability to edit at will makes the list very volatile. The Kuro5hin community is not above moderating comments or stories down based on ideological disagreement, but there is fortunately a balance in disagreements that keeps a single unjust moderation from affecting the final result, and there are systems to reduce the effects even of the abuses that pass through.
    I would think it only takes a couple of immature people to make the "Greates Hits" section into "Partisan Articles of the Day", with a day of the week for each political bias: Conservative Christian Day, Communist Day, Liberal Day, American-Centrist Day, Anti-American Day, Neoliberal Day, etc.
    The idea of the "Greates Stories" or "Classic" sections would be to expose the best of the best articles/discussions according to the general consensus of Kuro5hin, not to publish the personal favorites of whomever took the trouble of editing the page that day.

- "Welcome Center": would the Wiki be a welcome center to allow newcomers to understand the culture of Kur5hin, or would Kuro5hin be a welcome center to allow newcomers to understand the Wiki?
   The blog is, after all, a more familiar genre for the typical new Kuro5hin member than the Wiki, and I would expect the latter to develop its own quirky characteristics if it is going to be of any interest.

   The Wiki might be a good ground to collect comments and polish new guides, FAQs or other advice for newbies. And it's a good a place as any to discuss and figure out what to do with the "Classics" idea.
   But I think both issues require a more traditional approach for the final solutions.

Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...

Another Possibility (4.00 / 1) (#50)
by some homeless guy on Wed May 29, 2002 at 10:47:54 AM EST

Wiki is always an entertaining concept - but not really feasible for a community in which "users are accountable, to a limited extent, for their actions", etc... A better method would be to just create a new section on K5, where members may choose their all-time favorite stories...

the end.

That's all that would need to be done. The idea of using hotlists as a method of choosing popular stories is interesting, but i imagine people clean out their hotlists... but thats workable, keeping a log of hotlists is a possibility (already done? no matter)... but unneccesary - a simple solution would be a new section, that would just display the archive, with a check box next to every story: checked if the story is one of your favorites, unchecked if it isn't. Pretty simple

How about rating? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by zocky on Thu May 30, 2002 at 07:28:10 AM EST

I think all of this is a great idea, but Wiki IS too volatile to make anything of lasting value.

What we need is a system of ratings for Wiki. Like, a new version of an entry becomes the default version only when it's been voted higher than the old version. Or something. And when you log in to the Wiki, you can get a list of new entries that need to be rated, so you can go and rate them...

Basically, mesh Wiki and Scoop :) Well, that's what I'd call a real community web site.


I mean, if coal can be converted to energy, then couldn't diamonds?

I think you underestimate wiki nature. (4.00 / 1) (#52)
by Kaki Nix Sain on Fri May 31, 2002 at 12:21:35 AM EST

Or maybe I underestimate the silly and cruel nature of people out to get thrills by screwing up the work of others.

I vote for the former. I don't see any thrill in screwing up something that takes no skill to screw up.

[ Parent ]

One week follow-up report on the experiment... (none / 0) (#54)
by sebpaquet on Wed Jun 05, 2002 at 06:58:29 PM EST

is in this diary entry.
Seb's Open Research - Pointers and thoughts on the evolution of knowledge sharing and scholarly communication.
almost (none / 0) (#55)
by pb on Wed Jun 26, 2002 at 05:53:22 PM EST

According to the poll:
People will enjoy consulting and contributing.
                                        20 votes - 30 %

Therefore, I'd say the true statistic is more like 70%.

Thank you.
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall

just as with kuro5hin, (none / 0) (#56)
by sebpaquet on Thu Jun 27, 2002 at 07:34:36 AM EST

you don't expect (nor need) everyone to contribute. This is why I didn't count the 10% who said that some would only use the guide as pessimistic.
Seb's Open Research - Pointers and thoughts on the evolution of knowledge sharing and scholarly communication.
[ Parent ]
One-month follow up (none / 0) (#57)
by sebpaquet on Fri Aug 23, 2002 at 01:42:03 PM EST

Seb's Open Research - Pointers and thoughts on the evolution of knowledge sharing and scholarly communication.
A Community-Edited Guide to K5 | 57 comments (52 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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