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[P]
I made Google read Kuro5hin!

By nex in Meta
Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 12:06:00 AM EST
Tags: News (all tags)
News

I've got mail:

From: news-feedback@google.com
To: nex
Subject: Google News

Hello,

Thank you for your suggestion.  We have reviewed
http://www.kuro5hin.org/section/news and will be including it in Google
News later this week. [Actually, it's already working. -- ed.] ...


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...because it's waiting for your ad. So why are you still reading this? Come on, get going. Read the story, and then get an ad. Alright stop it. I'm not going to say anything else. Now you're just being silly. STOP LOOKING AT ME! I'm done!
comments (24)
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Now you can open news.google.com and search for "kuro5hin technology news". w00t!

Actually, the point is that Google now reads Kuro5hin.

Psst, don't miss this and that.

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I made Google read Kuro5hin! | 49 comments (42 topical, 7 editorial, 0 hidden)
Not a damn thing (4.96 / 25) (#1)
by ucblockhead on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 06:23:07 PM EST

Ok, this is too amusing for words...I click on the link and get this. (I screendumped it because I'm guessing it will change.)
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
and nex said with a mischievous grin... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by nex on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 06:31:35 PM EST

yup, i like playing with google until it does funny things.

[ Parent ]
Ever tried... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by awgsilyari on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 11:18:58 PM EST

typing "Go to Hell" (quotes included) into Google?

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com
[ Parent ]
Someone care to explain this one? (none / 0) (#25)
by j1mmy on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 01:49:00 AM EST

I find it amazing that "Go to Hell" yields Microsoft, AOL and Disney in the top 4. Is this the result of google picking up links titled "Go to Hell" that link to these sites?

[ Parent ]
Articles I have read... (none / 0) (#26)
by kerinsky on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 02:23:01 AM EST

You need to know a little bit about how google works.  Here's googles page about pagerank.  From that link we learn see that
In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."

Of course nothing in life is that simple.  Googles results are the consequence of a much more complicated formula than this, and part of that formula give weight to the text that is enclosed in the link to a site.  If a bunch of people have the text "go to hell" linked to microsoft's site then google thinks that microsoft must be a usefull resource for people interested in going to hell, hence the result.

-=-
Aconclusionissimplytheplacewhereyougottiredofthinking.
[ Parent ]

Group intelligence? (none / 0) (#28)
by Treenaks on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 03:08:18 AM EST

Maybe we can apply this 'Group Intelligence' for some ev^H^Hgood cause? :)

[ Parent ]
Googlebombing. (none / 0) (#38)
by luserSPAZ on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 02:33:37 PM EST

Look it up.

[ Parent ]
and that headline links to (none / 0) (#3)
by tbc on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:03:21 PM EST

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/9/20/164933/628

[ Parent ]
[o/t] I hate... (4.00 / 3) (#15)
by zocky on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 08:14:39 PM EST

...screen dumps of whole windows. I always start clicking the little screendumped Close button and nothing happens!

---
I mean, if coal can be converted to energy, then couldn't diamonds?
[ Parent ]

[o/o/t] I hate... (4.50 / 2) (#23)
by PurpleBob on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 12:35:37 AM EST

I hate sentences that begin in the subject and end in the body.

[ Parent ]
"News" section? (4.16 / 6) (#4)
by rusty on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:08:02 PM EST

Why only the News section? I would say that most of our interesting stories are in other sections. If that's all Google News is looking at, it'll miss the best of K5.

____
Not the real rusty
dude (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by ucblockhead on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:26:28 PM EST

Follow the link!

Though I can honestly say that the linked article misses the best of k5...it would be arrogant of me to say otherwise.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

*shrug* (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by nex on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:53:58 PM EST

actually, i submitted the whole site, THEY went straight to the news section. don't worry, i'll tell 'em about it.

[ Parent ]
Stop crying, not your fault (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by tranx on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 08:22:18 PM EST

moreover, in spite of the great posts in the news section, they seem to be mostly interested in babbling diaries for the moment.


"World War III is a guerrilla information war, with no division between military and civilian participation." -- Marshall McLuhan
[ Parent ]

It well help define what "News" is (none / 0) (#24)
by kholmes on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 12:49:31 AM EST

At least now when we submit articles and consider what category to put it under, we can introspect "Is this something that would make sense under the Google News page."

If you treat people as most people treat things and treat things as most people treat people, you might be a Randian.
[ Parent ]
as amusing as "CORBA FUCKING SUCKS" is.. (4.00 / 1) (#31)
by ShadowNode on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 08:35:32 AM EST

Somehow I don't think the diary section is really appropriate for Google News.

[ Parent ]
Heh (4.00 / 1) (#32)
by rusty on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 08:38:37 AM EST

Me neither. Seems odd that that's what they're mainly spidering at the moment. It might have something to with the frequency of updates. Hopefully they tweak that out of there, though.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Ummm (none / 0) (#33)
by wiredog on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 08:50:53 AM EST

Given the apparently unsolvable database/hardware/scoop problems this place is having, do we really want Google spidering it? Seems that might cause the systems to issue the infamous hcf opcode to the hard drives...

Earth first! We can strip mine the rest later.
[ Parent ]
don't worry (none / 0) (#34)
by nex on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 09:16:38 AM EST

google is spidering it anyway. the whole site. but it's minding the robots.txt, so you can it lock out of everywhere it doesn't belong. it pulls its data for news.google from that cache, so it doesn't make a difference.

anyway, if a single search engine spider makes a difference on a site with that many users, the site must be on the verge of collapse. google technology is quite smart; as they are spidering a HUGE number of pages over and over, i trust them that they access only the absolute minumum of pages encessary for building their cache and don't, e.g., follow every comment link under every article. if they do, though, robots.txt should eb adjusted.

[ Parent ]

on the verge of collapse (none / 0) (#35)
by wiredog on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 09:20:50 AM EST

Tried to do a search here lately? And posting a comment here in the afternoon (east coast time) can take 2 or 3 minutes after the "Post" button is hit.

Earth first! We can strip mine the rest later.
[ Parent ]
Spidering (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by rusty on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 09:34:34 AM EST

Google's been spidering us forever. In fact they're one of like three search engines that robots.txt actually allows.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Bug report... (none / 0) (#37)
by wiredog on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 10:05:59 AM EST

Occaisonally, in the afternoon when the system is slowest, I hit "Preview" on a comment and get the "formkey" error page (as if I'd hit "Post" twice) and the comment is posted.

It happens a couple of times a day.

Earth first! We can strip mine the rest later.
[ Parent ]

Well edit robots.txt (none / 0) (#40)
by kraant on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 09:44:49 PM EST

If having the diaries in the news bothers you that much why not block access to them in the robots.txt file so google will stop spidering them? :-)
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...
[ Parent ]
Inconvenient, and difficult (none / 0) (#41)
by rusty on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:02:48 PM EST

It isn't that having them there bothers me. It's Google's party and they can do what they want. I find it odd that they seem to only have diaries, so far. It doesn't add much of news value from K5, would be my opinion, compared to actually including the stories. But I sent them a note about it, and I assume they'll fix it if they want to.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
mass influx (none / 0) (#42)
by ucblockhead on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:13:25 PM EST

I suspect that it has to do with the fact that in terms of volume, most k5 stories are diaries. I'm really curious what their algorithm is for news...it obviously doesn't grab all diaries or stories, for instance. I suspect it has to do with stories that reference each other and such, and it should be obvious that us "Diary Folk" reference each other a lot more than do people in stories.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Reference each other? (none / 0) (#44)
by rusty on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:16:13 PM EST

The vast majority of news sites don't link to other stories about the same subject. It seriously looks to me like they don't have anything but diaries so far, which is statistically weird. There's nothing even in their URLs to distinguish them. I think it's probably update speed, myself. Diaries have the highest turnover on the site, which could be throwing their spider off.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
could be (none / 0) (#46)
by ucblockhead on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:23:48 PM EST

As you can see from my other reply, they've obviously gotten to the faq :-)

I just thought it might be references because I used to have a link to a comment in that diary of mine that was the only hit for "kuro5hin technology news".

I seriously don't think it is just a matter of ordering...at the time this story first hit, that diary was two back in my diary list. If you searched for just "kuro5hin", the third hit was my most recent diary. The Diary between the two did not seem to come up no matter what I threw at the search engine. Maybe because it was a short one? Who knows...
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

totally borked (none / 0) (#43)
by ucblockhead on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:15:32 PM EST

Second reply, but...their algorithm is obviously totally borked...as of the time of this comment, this is the top k5 news story. :-)
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Yeah (none / 0) (#45)
by rusty on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 11:18:21 PM EST

And there's that too, which is just mystifying. I think they're simply having some tuning issues. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
This makes tech news much more interesting (5.00 / 14) (#7)
by fluffy grue on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:44:02 PM EST

For example, check out the breaking news about CORBA.

Ha ha! I'm a syndicated journalist!
--
"Is a sentence fragment" is a sentence fragment.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
<mrgoat> that's not an ass,

Not surprising (5.00 / 11) (#10)
by ucblockhead on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:52:00 PM EST

I mean, that is certainly one of the most insightful things ever written about Corba.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Careful (none / 0) (#47)
by jayhawk88 on Thu Sep 26, 2002 at 10:36:04 AM EST

Destro and The Baroness will not be pleased.

Why, then, should we grant government the Orwellian capability to listen at will and in real time to our communications across the Web? -- John Ashcroft
[ Parent ]
OK, E-mail them again. (4.16 / 6) (#8)
by TheOnlyCoolTim on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:48:32 PM EST

Since you've already talked to them, you ought to tell them to exclude diaries.

Tim
"We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."

Is this guy CRAZY? (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by tranx on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 07:52:37 PM EST

First rusty doesn't get the joke, then you want the crap-machine stopped, what's wrong pals?


"World War III is a guerrilla information war, with no division between military and civilian participation." -- Marshall McLuhan
[ Parent ]

Tee Hee (4.42 / 7) (#18)
by MisterQueue on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 08:49:25 PM EST

How very fitting.

-Q

-------
"...it's like asking you if I should decapitate chickens... everyone knows what you will say" -theantix

wow, this is useful! (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by Bunny Vomit on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 09:44:17 PM EST

this search yields a MisterQueue diary that i missed!

--
(\_/)   "I refuse to halfass a pie." -- evilpckls
(O.o)   <MisterQueue> bunny: you're a
[ Parent ]
Missed?! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by MisterQueue on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 09:59:45 PM EST

Watchlist bunny... watchlist...

-Q

-------
"...it's like asking you if I should decapitate chickens... everyone knows what you will say" -theantix
[ Parent ]

i've hid mine for the short term (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Bunny Vomit on Tue Sep 24, 2002 at 10:53:37 PM EST

cuz it's too big =) i shall ketchup one day. i swear.

--
(\_/)   "I refuse to halfass a pie." -- evilpckls
(O.o)   <MisterQueue> bunny: you're a
[ Parent ]
The fun continues (1.50 / 2) (#30)
by salsaman on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 06:42:31 AM EST

Just about right

[ Parent ]
So, how long until Reginald Johnson gets a FP? (3.50 / 2) (#29)
by Skwirl on Wed Sep 25, 2002 at 03:21:36 AM EST

Google News spiders the Kuro5hin diary section and the groupings are "selected entirely by a computer algorithm?"

Then again, it's probably more difficult to troll a computer algorithm than mainstream news and their predictable news values anyways.

--
"Nothing in the world is more distasteful to a man than to take the path that leads to himself." -- Herman Hesse

My favorite part of google news site (3.00 / 1) (#48)
by Empty_One on Thu Sep 26, 2002 at 11:26:07 AM EST

is all the way at the bottom in tiny little letters:

This page was generated entirely by computer algorithms without human editors.
No humans were harmed or even used in the creation of this page.
--
"Barney sucks! Best Buy sucks! Sony Sucks! Microsoft sucks, Bill Gates is the anti-Christ and John Ashcroft can kiss my ass!" Wil Wheaton

can't find K5 (none / 0) (#49)
by cronian on Fri Dec 13, 2002 at 03:14:30 PM EST

I searched google and I cannot find K5 in it. Does this have anything to do with K5 continuosly crashing?

We perfect it; Congress kills it; They make it; We Import it; It must be anti-Americanism
I made Google read Kuro5hin! | 49 comments (42 topical, 7 editorial, 0 hidden)
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