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First Unofficial K5 Fiction Challenge - debriefing

By transient0 in Meta
Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 08:11:05 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

The First Unofficial K5 Fiction Challenge draws (un)officially to a close today. Admittedly, this contest was something of an experiment. Was the experiment a success? Each person will have their own opinion on that, but I am going to risk being labeled a die-hard who has never once yet learned from his mistakes and say: "Yes, I think it was."


Over the past nine days, Kuro5hin.org has seen some of the best fiction to ever appear on the site. If there was a problem with the contest, it was related to participation. In the weeks approaching the contest, I feared such a problem. I was afraid of there being so few submissions that the winners would have to be acclaimed. You all surprised me quite pleasantly. The problem instead was a surplus of submissions. Depending on how you count, there were between 35 and 50 entrants to the contest (35 users submitted fiction, with several submitting more than one piece).

It turned out that this influx of submissions was simply too much for the queue. At several points during the contest the edit and voting queues became heavily flooded with submissions, limiting the amount of sincere editing and voting not only to the contest submissions but also to the non-contest articles. The lesson that has been learned is that, if any future contests are to be held, the k5 modsub queue is not the ideal place for voting to be held. I apologize for any inconvenience this brought to any k5 users.

For all that, the Scoop voting system worked incredibly well. I do believe that the prize winning submissions actually deserved far greater scores than they eventually received, but perhaps I am biased, like a mother gazing upon her infant. Without further ado, I present the winners of the First Unofficial K5 Fiction Challenge:

  • First Prize: Two Moments of Invention by Cheeseburger Brown
    Total Votes: 344
    Final Score: 58
    Prize: Autographed copy of The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect (Dead Tree Format) by Roger Williams AND a six month membership to the Online Writing Workshop for Science Fiction and Fantasy
  • Second Prize: Jack vs. Deep Thought by sudog
    Total Votes: 360
    Final Score: 37
    Prize: Autographed copy of Acts of the Apostles by John Sundman AND a six month membership to K5
  • Third Prize: Repo Man by xC0000005
    Total Votes: 420
    Final Score: 25
    Prize: Autographed copy of Cheap Complex Devices by John Sundman AND a copy of DirectConvert Media Conversion Wizard
  • Controversy Prize: Paper, Scissors, Rock by ana
    Total Votes: 453
    Final Score: 7
    Prize: The coolest thing I can find at the used bookstore for ten dollars

If you are one of the winners, congratulations and please get in touch with me at ghost(at)256k(dot)org with your mailing address in order to claim your prize.

I would like to thank everyone who submitted, everyone who donated prizes, everyone who gave editorial advice, everyone who voted and everyone who put up with a deluge of fiction in the queue. Thank you.

Keep Writing.

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Related Links
o Scoop
o Two Moments of Invention
o Online Writing Workshop for Science Fiction and Fantasy
o Jack vs. Deep Thought
o K5
o Repo Man
o Paper, Scissors, Rock
o Also by transient0


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First Unofficial K5 Fiction Challenge - debriefing | 85 comments (54 topical, 31 editorial, 0 hidden)
The real winner of this "contest" (2.65 / 20) (#7)
by Tex Bigballs on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 11:08:53 AM EST

in my mind is munger who was the only person who managed to get fiction posted during the month of November.

This person was wise enough to ignore the silly fiction contest, forsake any of these cheezy prizes, and reap the only reward that mattered, getting their story published.

Congratulations to munger, the real winner.

2nd place: Cheeseburger Brown
3rd place: sudog
4th place: xC0000005
5th place: ana

Agreed. (none / 1) (#15)
by yanisa on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 11:36:22 AM EST

At the very least, he could have been mentioned.

And now, to trigger a flood of "here's my top three" posts, my personal favorites:

1. munger
2. ana
3. Cheeseburger Brown

Y.

I think this line's mostly filler
[ Parent ]

Another Great Story (2.00 / 3) (#38)
by The Turd Report on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:44:34 PM EST

The one by 'Fuck I Hate You'. Classic. However, many people noted that it wasn't fiction.

[ Parent ]
Everyone hates fiction now (2.25 / 20) (#16)
by Stick on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 11:54:38 AM EST

So the contest was a sucess.


---
Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
Thanks! (2.50 / 8) (#18)
by ana on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:02:04 PM EST

Truthfully, I expected the story to die in a half hour. So the fact that it survived to the auto-post decision (and ended up in positive territory) is a plus.

That said, K5 is not a literary journal. Though if this had gotten posted I sure as heck would have linked to it from my site with a nice big spanking K5 logo. But, hey.

Anyway, transient0, you have mail.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

It should have made Section (none / 1) (#26)
by haplopeart on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:43:28 PM EST

When the story went to autopost it should have made section in my opinion. After actually hanging tuff in the queue for that long taking that many votes, and ending up positive, it deserves to get posted.
Bill "Haplo Peart" Dunn
Administrator Epithna.com
http://www.epithna.com

[ Parent ]
hah. (1.20 / 5) (#62)
by pb on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:53:33 AM EST

Perhaps; too bad that's not how the system works, eh? I think autopost is flawed as well, but perhaps not in the same ways you think it is. So feel free to write up yet another Meta article on the subject; I'd be surprised if it even makes it to autopost.
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, but you're breaking the damn rules. (1.28 / 21) (#24)
by sllort on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:33:15 PM EST

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/11/6/12252/2652 :

"Prizes: There will be at least one, hopefully several. First Prize will go to the first piece to hit front page, with successive prizes going to the subsequent FP stories, then sequentially through any stories which make section. If you have any prizes you wish to donate, leave a comment here. If people show interest in the challenge, I will try to solicit a few appropriate prizes. At the very least, I will mail the winner something cool"

No eligible stories made front page or section. There are no prizes or winnings defined for hidden stories. Therefore your awarding prizes to those stories which got hidden by the least margin makes a mockery of the rules and spirit of the contest.

I like fiction, I vote for it, and I read the section. This doesn't change the fact that the fiction contest failed to generate a single eligible winner. This contest had 35 losers and 0 winners, period. Liking the fiction section does mean we need to cover our eyes, put our fingers in  our ears and scream "la la la la" whilst ignoring the reality that the voters of this site, under the current system, refuse to publish contest-level fiction.

Coming to grips with reality might enable you to make informed decisions about what to do in the future; living this lie and giving out prizes to losers is just going to encourage more futility.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.

thx for the good news (none / 1) (#27)
by muyuubyou on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:47:07 PM EST

Hope there won't be a sequel after this complete failure.

[ Parent ]
Perhaps you did not notice (2.50 / 10) (#29)
by transient0 on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 12:54:01 PM EST

that I realized well in advance that my original ranking system was flawed (or perhaps you prefer "stupid", I don't mind).

Here is a quote from the addendum to the Challenge:

"MODIFIED RANKING SYSTEM: In order to prevent a crowding towards to front of the deadline, the ranking will no longer be determined by speed through the queue. Front Page articles will still automatically rank ahead of Section Page articles which will rank ahead of dumped articles, but within categories, ranking will be in order of highest +1FP/+1SE ratio."

As you see, this system does allow for hidden stories to qualify. I ranked the hidden stories by score, with ties decided by FP/SE ratio.
---------
lysergically yours
[ Parent ]

Heh, nope I missed that. (2.00 / 4) (#31)
by sllort on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:00:03 PM EST

Please zero parent-of-parent.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
[ Parent ]
hah (none / 0) (#64)
by coderlemming on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 02:28:35 PM EST

I gave it a 3. So there. Seriously, you brought up a very valid concern. Not everyone reads comments religiously (frankly, I'd forgotten about the addendum).


--
Go be impersonally used as an organic semen collector!  (porkchop_d_clown)
[ Parent ]
An idea for a new (less intrusive) format (2.00 / 7) (#32)
by nkyad on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:06:00 PM EST

While I liked some of the posted stories and agree that Cheeseburger Brown's was probably the best, the queue "Fiction spamming" the challenge issued made most users quite annoyed. Many calls for the dismissal pure and simple of the Fiction section were heard.

I propose an alternative format for a next installment: The challenge would have two distinct phases, the Diary phase and the Queue phase.

During the Diary Phase, entries should be posted to the author's diary, clearly marked as an entry (the title, for instance, should be "SUKFC:[story title]"). All submissions to the challenge must have a standard pool. For instance, "Should this story go to the next phase?".

The n (ten?) most voted submissions of the Diary Phase are then submitted directly to the voting queue (since the author had time to edit the story and correct anything he/she wanted during the diary phase).

Since pool votes are open, a separate mechanism could be created to let only interested users votes count during the first phase and minimize ballot stuffing (for instance, interested users would be required to email a Challenge moderator during the week before Diary Phase stating their username would be voting).

My impression is that this way, only the best stories reach the queue and the popular reaction may be far more favourable.

Don't believe in anything you can't see, smell, touch or at the very least infer from a good particle accelerator run


I agree that this would be an improvement (none / 1) (#34)
by transient0 on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:13:34 PM EST

I will definitely consider it should I decide to run another such challenge in the future. It is not an immediate concern however. I figure the minimum cooling down time between such challenges is 12 months. A veritable eternity in Internet time.
---------
lysergically yours
[ Parent ]
Make it six months (none / 1) (#39)
by nkyad on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:46:45 PM EST

For this very reason (12 months is an eternity in the Internet), I would think six months a nicer time spam. If you need help, I would be willing to give a hand in a future occasion (pcof shift-2 terra dot com dot br).

Don't believe in anything you can't see, smell, touch or at the very least infer from a good particle accelerator run


[ Parent ]
Agreemsg. (none / 1) (#45)
by aphrael on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 03:05:05 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Acronym problem (2.00 / 4) (#44)
by rusty on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 02:58:58 PM EST

If you do it that way, can I suggest the name be changed? "Suck-FC" is not the greatest acronym I've ever seen. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
why not? (2.00 / 4) (#46)
by transient0 on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 03:09:12 PM EST

the acronym for the first challenge was FUKFC
---------
lysergically yours
[ Parent ]
Prefered format (none / 2) (#55)
by godix on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 10:10:04 PM EST

I post 'your story sucks the sweat off a dead mans balls and you suck' in my diary. All potentional fiction writers read my diary, get offended, then leave the site without ever having posted their story. I'm sure you'll agree that it'd have pretty much the same effect the first fiction challenge had but with a lot less effort required by everyone.

Well, at least I shall die as I have lived. Completely surrounded by morons.
- Black Mage[ Parent ]
How it should have been run (2.29 / 17) (#35)
by jjayson on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:17:19 PM EST

At least my suggestion on how it should have been run. Maybe, if anything similar is tried in the future, people can take this suggestion into consideration.

There should have been a diary created to hold submissions, instead of having them submitted to the queue. Nobody wants to read though all the crap though tries to pass for fiction on this site. People could have scored each entry using the comment rating system or a panel of judges could have judged instead (possibly even taking into account comment ratings). At the end of the content, an anthology of the winners would have been posted to the queue long with judges comments.

You would have have engendered so much bad emotion from everybody by not having the queue flooded, and it would have been interesting to see the comments that the judges had for the winners.

At least I think the judges comments would have been interesting, because I cannot for the life of me figure out why CB's story took the top slot. I read some of the fiction submitted on the site, but not very much, and I rarely vote on it. But CB's just lacked any sort of conflict that made it interesting. It was just a string of events. And the corporate-owned hyper-sexual world has been done so many times already. Why is it that sci-fi is always like that? From the first Heinline book I read, Stranger in a Stange Lang, to localroger's MOPI.
_______
Smile =)
* bt krav magas kitten THE FUCK UP
<bt> Eat Kung Jew, bitch.

Plenty of good sci-fi isn't. (none / 2) (#51)
by la princesa on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 05:47:04 PM EST

Perhaps there's the rub. ;D  Most sci-fi would be voted down if it were submitted to k5, despite the genre really picking up in quality authors in the last couple of decades.  K5 really is a bunch of people with low literature standards.  These aren't the well-rounded, intellectually diverse geek types.  I don't know if you read scientifiction much, but i can easily recommend plenty of well-written stuff that explores interesting ideas as a side bonus.  I might declaim on the sci-fi I like lateron.  

___
<qpt> Disprove people? <qpt> What happens when you disprove them? Do they disappear in a flash of logic?
[ Parent ]
Scientifiction ? (none / 1) (#60)
by bugmaster on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 08:52:45 AM EST

I, for one, would be quite interested in your "recommended reading" list. I have only read Science Fiction before, not this new thing called Scientifiction, and I'm looking forward to exploring this genre :-)
>|<*:=
[ Parent ]
Scientifiction is an old thing, really. (none / 1) (#68)
by la princesa on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 05:20:24 PM EST

It's what the genre was called back in the early part of the century or so.  I sometimes prefer it to sci-fi or science fiction, most specially in typing or writing, because it's all one word.  

___
<qpt> Disprove people? <qpt> What happens when you disprove them? Do they disappear in a flash of logic?
[ Parent ]
Congratulations, transient0 (1.93 / 16) (#36)
by thelizman on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 01:18:27 PM EST

Your Fiction contest was a resounding success, at least in that it bred a greater degree of animosity towards the fiction section as a whole. Apparently we are going to have to counter with Science, MLP, and Politics contests.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
no (1.00 / 4) (#49)
by l33t1 on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 04:59:37 PM EST

we should have a diary contest

[ Parent ]
Let's be fair here (none / 0) (#78)
by Eater on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 12:25:01 AM EST

How about a contest just for Politics articles focusing on Iraq?

Eater.

[ Parent ]
Don't worry dude. (none / 0) (#85)
by felixrayman on Fri Dec 05, 2003 at 11:17:05 PM EST

I've got it covered.

Call Donald Rumsfeld and tell him our sorry asses are ready to go home. Tell him to come spend a night in our building. - Pfc. Matthew C. O'Dell

[ Parent ]
Wait a minute... (2.16 / 12) (#47)
by gyan on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 03:31:30 PM EST

None of the "winners" made it to even section!

Umm, yeah, the contest was a err.. success.

********************************

ROFL (2.16 / 6) (#52)
by Kasreyn on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 06:27:04 PM EST

Over the past nine days, Kuro5hin.org has seen some of the best fiction to ever appear on the site.

So, you wrote that beforehand and took a hiatus while WE all suffered, eh? :-P

In those 9 days, not one Fiction story posted. True, this was partially the action of the anti-fiction crowd, who rallied their army and fought the (good?) fight. But partially IMO it was due to the low overall quality of submissions. I agree with your first two picks, but I voted against both anyway, not having considered them "k5 quality". As I voted down every other piece of fiction I saw. =\

Don't get me wrong. I'm capable of being quite ardent about k5 fiction. I just didn't see anything that struck my fancy this week, that's all.


-Kasreyn


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
But you voted mine up to section didn't you? (2.00 / 4) (#53)
by sudog on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 06:57:43 PM EST

Or am I misunderstanding which picks you're talking about? :-)


[ Parent ]
The Crapfinko entry should've won [nt] (1.50 / 6) (#54)
by StormShadow on Tue Dec 02, 2003 at 07:12:08 PM EST



-----------------
oderint dum metuant - Cicero
We aren't killing enough of our [America's] enemies. Re-elect Bush in 2004 - Me
12/2003: This account is now closed. Password scrambled. Its been a pleasure.


Here it is (none / 1) (#81)
by Fuck I Hate You on Fri Dec 05, 2003 at 07:09:10 AM EST

The Fiction Writer

[ Parent ]
Congratulations to all winners! (2.16 / 6) (#56)
by Akshay on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 03:19:12 AM EST

I enjoyed all of them thoroughly. I did plan to post something up myself, but the semester just got ended, and for some reason, I found downtown at night more attractive than staying in my room in front of the laptop. Basically, I needed a break from everything.

Rest assured though, I'll post something up soon. Just to give the work a sense of completion.

Congratulations to the winners (1.66 / 6) (#57)
by bugmaster on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 03:35:27 AM EST

I actually didn't like any of the winners as much as the other stories (except for PSR), but that's just me. It really irks me that none of the stories even made it to section, but the trolls have spoken, and it looks like k5 is not a place for fiction at all (angry Iraq stories, of course, are always welcome).

In any case, would it be possible to hold the next Fiction challenge entirely in the diaries ? And, come to think about it, how about making the Fiction challenge a monthly event ? Naturally, there would be no extravagant prizes, but pride and bragging rights are also quite nice things to have.
>|<*:=

It was a mistake posting your real email address (1.23 / 17) (#58)
by Talez on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 03:36:16 AM EST

You will pay for inflicting this upon us.

Mark my words, you will pay.

Si in Googlis non est, ergo non est

Indeed.. (none / 0) (#75)
by zipper on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 09:59:27 PM EST

Speaking purely in the hypothetical, it would be rather hypocritical for him to complain if I gave his email address to spammers. I mean, nobody's *forcing* him to read it, and some people like it... right?

---
This account has been neutered by rusty and can no longer rate or post comments. Way to go fearless leader!
[ Parent ]
who's afraid of being a hypocrite? (none / 2) (#76)
by transient0 on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:30:42 PM EST

not i.

not my primary address anyway. That is a carefully guarded secret kept on a slip of softest vellum in a chest guarded by two eunuchs and a giraffe. a really mean giraffe.
---------
lysergically yours
[ Parent ]

Congratulations to the winners! (2.25 / 4) (#61)
by STFUYHBT on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 09:55:34 AM EST

I think we're all grateful for your contributions to Kuro5hin. Thank you for helping to make this site what it is today.

-
"Of all the myriad forms of life here, the 'troll-diagnostic' is surely the lowest, yes?" -medham
Off Topic: Where do I send the books? (none / 1) (#63)
by johnny on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 12:13:23 PM EST

Please send me a note at wetmachine. Thanks,

yr frn,
jrs
Get your free download of prizewinning novels Acts of the Apostles and Che
Can us k53rs still get autographed copies? (none / 0) (#71)
by LilDebbie on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 07:15:40 PM EST

And if so, should I just send you an email and then a check?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Absitively (none / 0) (#72)
by johnny on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 08:03:21 PM EST

If you go to wetmachine.com there's an order form you can print out & put in the mail with check. Or. there's paypal. & yes, I'm happy to write with any kind of inscription you like.

yr frn,
jrs
Get your free download of prizewinning novels Acts of the Apostles and Che
[ Parent ]
schweet (nt) (none / 0) (#73)
by LilDebbie on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 08:25:06 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Can someone enlighten me ... (none / 2) (#65)
by mami on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 03:33:52 PM EST

how in the world is a normal person, who can't read diaries for hours, supposed to find and read these fiction submissions?

Were all these in the edit queue and voted down and then had to be republished in the diary section?

Clueless in Seattle ... Gimme some clue ... what a pain...

yes (none / 0) (#66)
by transient0 on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 03:41:25 PM EST

that is exactly what happened. But this story, which links to them, has been posted to the front page. So it is actually quite easy to find and read the winning submissions.
---------
lysergically yours
[ Parent ]
wow, what a better proof (1.00 / 5) (#67)
by mami on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 04:25:19 PM EST

how messed up this site is ...

[ Parent ]
Goodness. . . (none / 2) (#69)
by Fantastic Lad on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 05:48:05 PM EST

Just read the three winning entries for the first K5 Fiction Contest. . .

Cripes.

There must be a better way to do this. Awareness, I mean.

Well-written and engaging. But oh my. . . What a load of ugly, ugly stories. The only ray of hope in the lot came from a 'hero' living as an augmented cyborg submerged in a bacta-tank. At least these writers were honest, not deluding themselves. The truth is certainly not very pretty when observed from this angle.

Still. . .

While 'Truth Hurts', I'd still like to think that there is a better way than to bludgeon everybody like so until they see. I am guilty of this to some extent, too. But perhaps that's simply the way of it; it only gets better after the beating. One only learns to build a better world after having been through the grinder a few times, after having been immersed in all that exquisite agony so that finally it sticks to the translucent fabric of the soul's memory, the blood of so many tragedies washed and washed again so that only a light stain remains to color our future view of the world. Reminding, warning us through that light color. That hint of odor.

Pardon me. I'm going to go back to my yellowed, two-dollar Ray Bradbury. --A man who knew the evils of the world, but knew how to teach delicately. I think we could all stand to learn from such gentle masters.

-FL

Does anybody have a link to this story? (none / 1) (#70)
by captshad on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 06:08:49 PM EST

I can't remember the author or the name of the story, but it was a series of vignettes including one involving a character strapped to a dime. I had to run out before I could finish, and when I came back the sucker had been voted out of the queue. Damnit! And I was enjoying the heck out of it. Damn your fiction-hating souls! Anyway, I would be very grateful if the author or some other such kind soul could post a link.

Yes. (none / 0) (#77)
by scanman on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:53:17 PM EST

Try this link.

"[You are] a narrow-minded moron [and] a complete loser." - David Quartz
"scanman: The moron." - ucblockhead
"I prefer the term 'lifeskills impaired'" - Inoshiro

[ Parent ]

I don't mean to be mean... (none / 2) (#74)
by razzmataz on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 09:32:21 PM EST

But when you say things like: but I am going to risk being labeled a die-hard who has never once yet learned from his mistakes you sound alot like the kid who kept on putting his hand on the hot stove burner...


-- I love the smell of fdisk in the morning...

DirectConvert (none / 1) (#79)
by marcos on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 10:05:24 AM EST

Author, please contact me at mark at essien.de for license key information and all that stuff.

Don't worry transient. (2.25 / 2) (#80)
by debacle on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 07:06:44 PM EST

We'll get these fuckers in the January Official k5 Fiction Challenge.

I'm writing something hot. It's about cats.

And gerbils.

It tastes sweet.

What about "Temporary Assignment" (none / 0) (#82)
by Jed Smith on Fri Dec 05, 2003 at 06:02:09 PM EST

This story owned all the other ones, hands down.
_____
K5 is dead. Steve Ballmer made the most insightful comment on a story. -- jw32767
Rules noncompliant (none / 0) (#83)
by munger on Fri Dec 05, 2003 at 07:42:51 PM EST

The story was posted outside the contest window, and it was submitted to a Toledo contest in August.

[ Parent ]
Ugh. (none / 1) (#84)
by Lai Lai Boy on Fri Dec 05, 2003 at 09:32:30 PM EST

I hate fiction.

This is why I don't read K5 nearly as much as I used to.

[Posted from Mozilla Firebird]

First Unofficial K5 Fiction Challenge - debriefing | 85 comments (54 topical, 31 editorial, 0 hidden)
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