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By llimllib in Meta
Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 11:43:01 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)

Over the past 7 months as a Kuro5hin member, I've posted 1 unsuccessful story, 1 successful one, 5 diaries, 154 comments, read every word of nearly every posted article, and read quite a few diaries as well. Without realizing it, I've probably spent an average of 2 hours a day on the site, which comes out to a little over 2 whole weeks of my life.

This morning, it became clear to me that Kuro5hin functions in my life as a church.

Dictionary.com lists, as definition 1 of "church", "A building for public, especially Christian worship.". This definition, while concise, misses several of the points that I consider to be part and parcel of a church.


My definition of church does not include denomination, as K5 is obviously not a place of Christian worship. Thus, your mosque, temple, or any other place, real or imagined, may fit into my definition of a church.


The primary motivating factor for any church is that of community. People are not inclined to worship on their own; otherwise, organized religion would not be nearly as pervasive as it is today. People have a natural instinct to get together and celebrate something larger than them, be it Bacchus, Jesus, or Jah Rastafari.

Kuro5hin certainly is a community. In fact, it exhibits an obsession with community. A google search for community on Kuro5hin turns up 4,400 results. We are a diverse group of people with a common bond, our website, where there are well known figures and quiet lurkers, as in any group. While I haven't developed any close, personal type friendships, a quick look through the diaries shows that many others certainly have.


Perhaps growing out of the property of community, churches have traditions associated with them. Every church community carries out, almost without thinking, traditional activities that are deeply ingrained into the community. Only when somebody steps into that church who doesn't know the traditions do they become apparent.

Kuro5hin, despite being a fairly young community in church terms, certainly carries traditional expectations. Let somebody post a story about a personal experience in the queue, and see if they don't get told a thousand times that it should be a diary. Watch when somebody repeats the intro text in the body of a story, or posts two diaries in a day*. There is, or isn't, a K5 cabal which far predates me, a relative newcomer. There is an implicit, unwritten guidebook to K5 that is only accessible through experience.


Churches always congregate around some set of shared beliefs, however strict or loose they are. Christians gather to celebrate Jesus, Rastas to celebrate Jah. However, it is my belief that these beliefs are, for most, little more than an excuse for the community to gather together in celebration of their unity. It is a basic human instinct to want to feel like part of a group, to feel that one belongs to something larger than oneself.

Here my point seems hardest to make. Readers of Kuro5hin are an intelligent and diverse group, and we all have very different viewpoints on many different topics. I think there is, however, one thing that unifies all of us. We, as a community, believe that K5 is a valuable concept. Rusty's entire job, more or less, is to take care of a place that doesn't exist in anything more than our minds. The community finds this so important that we pay him to do so, which brings me to my final point.

Economic Activity

Churches through time have experienced everything from a poor existence to a lavish richness, because all of their funds are donated. Churches, with a few exceptions, provide services for free and ask only for the generosity of its parishioners to keep it going. In most cases, the parishioners find these services worthwhile enough that they donate money to keep the church going.

Economically, K5 operates nearly exactly as a church. Rusty offers extra services to our readers and writers in exchange for their generosity, but the basic services of Kuro5hin are free. Furthermore, no visible distinction is made between those who have paid and those who haven't, unlike fark.com (the TotalFark icon means that the user is a subscriber). This tends to emphasize the evenness of our community.


To me, the main difference between Kuro5hin and the churches I have been to is the lack of interpersonal communication. All of our discussions are centered around specific topics, which is perfect for geeks. However, I don't get the actual friendly feeling of shaking someone's hand, and one-sided diary conversations and IRC conversations are a poor substitute. This leaves me questioning the amount of time I spend on the site, wondering whether I'm wasting my time away from real people or not. Nonetheless, I do spend quite a bit of time "here".


Kuro5hin is, in my mind, as real a place as any church, and I come here for my daily intellectual bread. In its internet existence, I find a wonderful community, although one that sometimes leaves much to be desired, just as I do at a church. Kuro5hin has the ability to make me stop and think carefully more often than most things, and it puts me into contact with other people who also like to stop and think. For this, I am grateful, and I suspect that most of you are too.


*: my apologies to all the comment writers, I don't mean to pick on any of you personally.


Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure


For Me K5 Is...
o A Church 2%
o Strictly a Diversion 18%
o A Wannabe Intellectual Circle Jerk 40%
o Just a Troll Pond 6%
o A Habit 26%
o Other 5%

Votes: 247
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Kuro5hin
o Google
o I
o unsuccessf ul story
o successful one
o diaries
o comments
o church
o google search
o should be a diary
o repeats the intro text
o posts two diaries
o K5 cabal
o Jah
o extra services
o fark.com
o Also by llimllib

Display: Sort:
K5ism | 134 comments (94 topical, 40 editorial, 0 hidden)
So that's it. (4.61 / 21) (#1)
by Soviet Russian on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 10:46:18 PM EST

That explains all the paedophile posts :P

nice... (4.57 / 7) (#5)
by Oxymoron on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:21:21 PM EST

i've never really thought of k5 as a church, but it is the place i come to confess and try to absolve myself of my sins.

I think people here are more useful than actual religious folk (apologies to those who are religious clergy/whatever).

Fighting the war, on drugs.
"Yeah, girls smelling like oranges is always a recipe for trouble. They'll invariably end up getting thrown on the floor
Repeat with me. (4.10 / 19) (#9)
by Estanislao Martínez on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:43:47 PM EST

It's just a website.


I know (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by llimllib on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:46:36 PM EST

but, sometimes, things gain importance beyond what they are. For a lot of people, a church is not "just a building"

[ Parent ]
Relgion (3.80 / 5) (#90)
by ucblockhead on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 12:48:18 PM EST

Seriously, if you put the amount of importance into this website that people put into religion, well...that's very sad.

At best...at very best...k5 is like the local pub, where people gather round to shoot the shit.
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

It's also... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
by ShadowNode on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 12:55:40 PM EST

Rather sad to think of the importance some people invest in religion.

[ Parent ]
You're right, (none / 0) (#93)
by llimllib on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:40:13 PM EST

it leads to selfless people like Mother Teresa and the thousand other humble people of every denomination like her that you just haven't heard of.

[ Parent ]
that's rather demeaning to them (5.00 / 1) (#102)
by ShadowNode on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 07:07:50 PM EST

I rather doubt they're selfless and humble because of the particular fairy tales they take seriously.

[ Parent ]
You sure? (4.00 / 1) (#104)
by llimllib on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 07:56:31 PM EST

I'm sure that they would disagree with you strongly. Go ahead and tell one of them that their religion has nothing to do with their actions, and see what they say. Many of them were seriously troubled people before their "fairy tale" inspired them to good work.

[ Parent ]
yes... by definition (5.00 / 1) (#105)
by ShadowNode on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 10:26:16 PM EST

If they are just doing it for their fairy tale then they're not being selfless, rather whatever rewards it promises. True virtue wouldn't require, or really have use, for such things.

[ Parent ]
Then we're at an impasse (3.50 / 2) (#112)
by llimllib on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 12:27:22 PM EST

Your definition of a "selfless person" excludes the possibility of that person's belief in a god with power over them. Therefore, only a nonbeliever can be selfless, and no religious person can be.

I disagree. I feel that there exist people who perform their good deeds because of a true devotion to their belief in a god.

Nobody is perfectly "selfless" because you wouldn't be able to survive that way - you wouldn't feed yourself. So, if we have a useful (relaxed) definition of "selfless", I believe that there certainly are people who at the same time are selfless and believe in a god.

[ Parent ]
Certianly one can be selfless and believe in a god (3.00 / 2) (#117)
by ShadowNode on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 03:30:41 PM EST

Just as one can be selfless and eat peanut butter sandwiches. They're not being selfless if they're acting on a belief that they'll be rewarded with peanut butter sandwiches, however.

If one is truely selfless, relaxed definition or no, belief in fairy tales would be incidental rather than causal.

[ Parent ]
not the local pub (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by llimllib on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:38:08 PM EST

I don't know what local pubs you go to, but at the pubs I go to, people don't frequently delve into the impact political, cultural, and technological issues like they do here. Also, there aren't so many people who care about things at the pub as there are here. Not to say that I don't like the bar, but that's a very different sort of interaction for me.

[ Parent ]
not a dance bar, but the corner pub (5.00 / 1) (#129)
by Empty_One on Fri Apr 25, 2003 at 05:20:47 PM EST

Then you don't drink enough at the pub.  Around 1am, after 4 or 5 hours of drinking, deep topics like religion, politics, technology and it's impact on society get discussed all the time.  Of course, to the sober person, it just seems like we are babbling, but really, our conversations are truly deep and meaningful. :)
"Barney sucks! Best Buy sucks! Sony Sucks! Microsoft sucks, Bill Gates is the anti-Christ and John Ashcroft can kiss my ass!" Wil Wheaton
[ Parent ]
just like on K5 :) (nt) (5.00 / 1) (#130)
by llimllib on Sat Apr 26, 2003 at 12:12:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You (none / 0) (#94)
by CodeWright on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:46:32 PM EST

Are just bitter because your heretical anti-church, Adequacy, burned down.

"Humanity's combination of reckless stupidity and disrespect for the mistakes of others is, I think, what makes us great." --Parent ]
Repeat with me. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
by arose on Thu Apr 24, 2003 at 07:14:27 PM EST

It's just a building.
Dzīvot ir kaitīgi, no tā mirst.
[ Parent ]
We have a God! (5.00 / 9) (#11)
by RJNFC on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:47:42 PM EST

His name starts with "R", ends with "makes great sourdough" :)

I'd hate to have a name like that (5.00 / 10) (#26)
by Mr Spot on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:35:34 AM EST

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to go through life known as "Rmakes great sourdough".

[ Parent ]
...and you have Semi-Gods too... (none / 0) (#111)
by johwsun on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 11:06:44 AM EST

..who are they?
Post the name here, as a comment, then vote for i, using the comment ratings capability.

This is a poll, for the ones who did not understand...

[ Parent ]

...and (5.00 / 1) (#132)
by Baumog on Sun Apr 27, 2003 at 06:56:26 AM EST

...and demi-Gods, and semi-demi-Gods as well. Let's write them all down!


[ Parent ]
Baumog! (5.00 / 1) (#133)
by johwsun on Thu May 01, 2003 at 02:42:46 PM EST

Nice to see you again!!!!!

[ Parent ]
Does that make... (5.00 / 1) (#115)
by JahToasted on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 02:55:50 PM EST

Does that make turmeric the devil?

[ Parent ]
Probably not. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
by Netsnipe on Fri Apr 25, 2003 at 11:11:33 AM EST

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Roger 'Verbal' Kint
The Usual Suspects

tumeric isn't exactly doing too well at this to be the devil.

Andrew 'Netsnipe' Lau
Debian GNU/Linux Maintainer & Computer Science, UNSW
[ Parent ]
And I thought satanism was bad. (nt) (4.30 / 10) (#12)
by ucblockhead on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:54:14 PM EST

This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
hmm (5.00 / 12) (#13)
by cronian on Sun Apr 20, 2003 at 11:58:57 PM EST

Oh great Rusty, King of K5, Are you listening? If K5 is a church why doesn't it have tax-exempt status already. Also, have you tried getting money from one of Bush's faith-based initiatives, or possibly one of those myriad of religious organizations.

We perfect it; Congress kills it; They make it; We Import it; It must be anti-Americanism
King? (4.00 / 1) (#39)
by mumble on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 04:26:32 AM EST

As a religious leader, King seems out of place. More like Bishop or Pope or something.

stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.
[ Parent ]
Grand Poobah (none / 0) (#95)
by CodeWright on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:49:13 PM EST

Bishop and Pope carry to many connotations from those other religions. Rusty needs to be a Grand Poobah or a Grand High k5 Cabalist, or an Arcane Perl Hierophant.

"Humanity's combination of reckless stupidity and disrespect for the mistakes of others is, I think, what makes us great." --Parent ]
Chief Monocle Polisher (4.00 / 1) (#114)
by wiredog on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 12:44:45 PM EST

And head feeder of the mod_perl squirrels.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]
K5ism is not a religion (4.72 / 22) (#15)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:03:36 AM EST

K5ism is as serious a problem as alcoholism.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
K5ism is nothing like alcoholism (5.00 / 7) (#23)
by thenick on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:23:54 AM EST

I can post on K5 as long as I can stay awake. Alcoholism only allows you to stay awake for 6-8 hours at a time.

On the other hand, I've met alcoholics who are more coherent than K5 members.

"Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler, he did a lot, but don't we all wish he would have stayed home and gotten stoned?" -Dex
[ Parent ]

And besides, (5.00 / 7) (#33)
by NFW on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:48:31 AM EST

I can stop any time I want to.

It's not a problem.

Got birds?

[ Parent ]

Nah.. (5.00 / 7) (#30)
by ender81b on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:38:26 AM EST

I'm a drunk, alcoholics go to meetings.

[ Parent ]
Hmm no... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by Nesian on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 09:38:47 AM EST

K5 is like a sore tooth that you just cant seem to stop touching.
~After all, if you stockpile a massive nuclear arsenal, it's only natural that people are going to want to go in and have a look around, maybe see what all those buttons marked 'detonate' and 'code red' mean.~
[ Parent ]
Only two weeks in 7 months? (4.16 / 6) (#19)
by Emissary on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:11:11 AM EST

I've probably spent two weeks in the last month alone.

"Be instead like Gamera -- mighty, a friend to children, and always, always screaming." - eSolutions
He means straight.... (none / 0) (#73)
by Elkor on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 05:09:08 PM EST

2 hours/day * 20 (business) days/month * 7 months = 280 hrs.

280 hrs / 24 hrs/day = 11.6 days.

I.E. 2 weeks of his life.


"I won't tell you how to love God if you don't tell me how to love myself."
-Margo Eve
[ Parent ]
K5: interdisciplinary nerd church? (4.94 / 19) (#20)
by Subtillus on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:16:33 AM EST

I'm inclined to say yes.

Only, I think you've all missed something.

Rusty isn't God here, he's the pope; our God is pedantry.

Heh.. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by terpy on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:44:21 AM EST

Rusty isn't God here, he's the pope; our God is pedantry.

That was quite funny. Sig worthy even.

" All the Feds are going to drop dead and they'll finger you since you totally match the profile of a libertarian wacko."-Parent ]

Another Definition (5.00 / 7) (#25)
by wlossog on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:30:28 AM EST

"A society whose members are united because they imagine the sacred world and its relations with the profane world in the same way, and because they translate this common representation into common practices" is Emile Durkheim's definition of a Church, taken from The Elementary Forms of Religious Life. In the sense that an online community is somehow sacred, set apart from the mundane physical world, I can see this definiton mapped onto Kuro5hin. In fact, Kuro5hin seems concerned with the relation between the worlds, specifically, where technology comes in contact with the outsiders (legislators, MPAA, RIAA, etc.) who do not share our relationship with the 'sacred' world.
On the other hand, I can find a pile of other definitons that can be mapped onto Kuro5hin with an equally good fit. The article seems to refer not to a general church but a a specific instance of or type of brick-and-mortar churches so I don't feel that it has wide appeal or interest.

a general church? (none / 0) (#27)
by llimllib on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 12:38:04 AM EST

I don't understand what you mean when you say that the article doesn't refer to a "general church"? I very generally compare K5 to what I call a church - a place of communal worship, defined entirely unscientifically by my impressions of having been to churches.

Furthermore, an article sectioned as K5 meta isn't intended to have a "wide appeal or interest". It is intended to be very narrowly aimed at k5ers, who may or may not have experienced some of the same feelings as I have.

[ Parent ]
Orthodoxy (none / 0) (#42)
by chemista on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 06:46:04 AM EST

Under your definition, I think the other site would be the standard-bearer of the Geek Faith (along with fundie wackos like Jon Katz?). K5 is more of an ecumenical organization, sharing some beliefs, but not with as much "Bill Gates is the Anti-Torvalds" stuff.

All hail the great Rusty! (Can I have an amen?)

Stop reminding people about the overvalued stock market! I'm depending on that overvalued stock market to retire some day! - porkchop_d_clown
[ Parent ]

Hmmm (4.64 / 14) (#28)
by PhillipW on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:08:39 AM EST

This morning, it became clear to me that Kuro5hin functions in my life as a church.

I'm sorry.

Confession chamber is in the bottom left corner . (none / 0) (#34)
by Soviet Russian on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:13:33 AM EST


[ Parent ]
The Scoop button? <n/t> (5.00 / 4) (#35)
by carbon on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:23:31 AM EST

Wasn't Dr. Claus the bad guy on Inspector Gadget? - dirvish
[ Parent ]
the new diaries section :) /nt (none / 0) (#36)
by Soviet Russian on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:36:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
-1, Too You-centric [n/t] (3.71 / 14) (#29)
by thelizman on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:13:33 AM EST


"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
odd estimate (4.66 / 6) (#31)
by Delirium on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:41:03 AM EST

Given that I've posted upwards of 5000 comments to this site, if you've spent two weeks of your life on it, I shudder to think what I've spent.

a fetishist (3.42 / 7) (#37)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:48:23 AM EST

it's just a website. it's not a cult.

really it isn't. i like kuro5hin, but i have no deep emptiness in my soul that i need to belong to some sort of church of kuro5hin.

geez dude, enjoy the site, don't fetishize it.

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Don't worry (5.00 / 2) (#109)
by Keepiru on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 07:21:47 AM EST

We can correct your lack of faith.  You may not enjoy it at first, but you will soon Understand.

<closes in on circletimessquare with a group of fellow K5ism Belief Renewal Minions>

[ Parent ]

Church? (5.00 / 15) (#38)
by Meatbomb on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 04:01:12 AM EST

Surely you meant crutch. As long as I have purposeful activity here I can't completly justify suicide and/or mass murder. Plus, it makes me feel savvy and up-to-date. Oh, and it makes me feel less bad that I don't relate to live face to face people very well or very often.


Good News for Liberal Democracy!

Oh sure (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by CodeWright on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:52:36 PM EST

But you lock people in your basement? What's that, a sideline?

"Humanity's combination of reckless stupidity and disrespect for the mistakes of others is, I think, what makes us great." --Parent ]
Arse-backwards (4.52 / 17) (#41)
by ukryule on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 06:00:49 AM EST

You seem to be going through some fairly tortuous logic to convince yourself that a fairly generic concept (a 'community') can be reclassified as a fairly specific one (a 'church'). First you remove the (pretty obvious) Christian connurtations of church, then claim tradition is important in K5 (pretty tenuous, that), and then claim that worship isn't really *that* important to a religion.

All you're actually saying is that *for you*, your Church is primarily a community. I'm sure there are a large number of people for whom this is not the case (a place for internal reflection, a moral guide, a place to sing, a good way of picking up women, free wine & bread, old building with nice architecture, something you only think about at births deaths marriages and Christmas, ...)

It would be slightly more meaningful if you tried to convince us all that a church is just a 'web-community' with a few oddities. I suggest you try this out on your fellow-parishioners, and suggest an experimental 'spam button' for next Sunday's sermon ... tell us how it goes in your diary!

Anyway, you missed the most obvious similarity: K5 is where people go to have their preconceived moral convictions validated by agreeing with like minded individuals, while demonising people with an opposing view.

Interesting concept, but... (4.66 / 3) (#43)
by 8ctavIan on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 06:53:08 AM EST

I beg to differ about the church analogy. I have always thought of Kuro5hin as something like Benjamin Franklin's Junto , with less emphasis on self-help/business.

Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice. -- H.L. Mencken

-1, Masturbatory (4.11 / 9) (#44)
by Hide The Hamster on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 07:41:30 AM EST

Go join a real church.

Free spirits are a liability.

August 8, 2004: "it certainly is" and I had engaged in a homosexual tryst.

Community? (4.83 / 6) (#46)
by dipierro on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 08:31:44 AM EST

K5 doesn't function in the role of community. Community doesn't mean something to do to keep you from being bored on a Sunday morning. It means someone to help you change your tire when you get a flat. It means someone to call the cops when there are hoodlums throwing rocks at windows. It means someone to throw water on your house when it starts burning to the ground. A community will help feed you when you can't afford any food. They'll help get you out of jail when you're falsely accused of a crime. They'll put up ribbons when you're lost in combat. They'll watch your infant children when you go see your grandmother in the hospital. No, I'm sorry, K5 is not a community, at least not in the same sense that church is.

excellent (4.87 / 8) (#51)
by YelM3 on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 09:44:32 AM EST

Can this story really get 100% negative comments? That would just be special.

It seems to me (5.00 / 10) (#61)
by davidduncanscott on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 11:19:26 AM EST

(and I've devoted all of 30 seconds to this) that your map of "church", minus the God bit, fits "neighborhood bar" just as well, and indeed that's about how I see K5, except that I get to pick the music and I have to pour my own beer.

As a married man, I wouldn't be groping the barmaid anyway.

Using K5 (4.90 / 10) (#62)
by 5pectre on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 11:39:05 AM EST

Is like chain-smoking, you don't know why but you just keep on doing it.

"Let us kill the English, their concept of individual rights might undermine the power of our beloved tyrants!!" - Lisa Simpson [ -1.50 / -7.74]

Ditto. chain(smoker,k5user); here :) [nt] (none / 0) (#118)
by vyruss on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 05:59:52 PM EST

  • PRINT CHR$(147)

[ Parent ]
-1 (3.57 / 7) (#65)
by everhum on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 01:54:46 PM EST

About the only thing these two have in common is the self-righteous, judgemental assholes.

intentional irony? (nt) (5.00 / 4) (#66)
by llimllib on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:17:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fine with me. (4.40 / 10) (#68)
by jvcoleman on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 02:56:25 PM EST

That would make turmeric and A Proud American the altar boys of K5.

does that (1.00 / 2) (#110)
by evilpckls on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 09:30:23 AM EST

make rusty a child molester?

"Ever get drunk on croutons?"--BV
[ Parent ]

You may not want to get too much into the K5 Cult (3.66 / 12) (#71)
by BankofAmerica ATM on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 04:54:37 PM EST

I found out that K5 is affiliated with the FBI, which is a puppet organization for the CIA, which is a puppet organization for the Department of Homeland Security, which is a puppet organization of the Federal Government, which is a puppet organization for Bank of America, which controls everything secretly.


Holy Shit (none / 0) (#116)
by JahToasted on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 03:06:51 PM EST

Project Faustus is still around? That was a great series, I'm glad to see you're keeping it up.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm, so our religous artifacts are.... (4.91 / 12) (#74)
by Elkor on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 05:22:03 PM EST

Religous Icon - That blue bridge thing in the upper left corner. Check.

Prayer - Posting by K5ers. Check.

Religous Text telling us how to lead our life- FAQ page. Check

Head Religious Figure who has ultimate control - Rusty. Check

Clergy who interpret the will of the HRF - Editors, check.

Spiritual beings who occasionally visit to impart blessings but cannot be proven to exist(i.e. Angels) - K5 Kabal, check.

Evil denizens who seek to lead the rightous into sin - We've got trolls, check.

So, does that mean that Beer (or caffeine) is our holy water and that cheetos are our sacrament?


"I won't tell you how to love God if you don't tell me how to love myself."
-Margo Eve
Isn't it idea/ web editing? (4.60 / 5) (#78)
by OldTigger on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 08:36:28 PM EST

Much newer than you to K5, I'm playing around because I want to learn about the rating system and watch what others think is more worth watching.

You're right about the cultural norms -- more quickly found by violating and getting told than by quick glancing at quite a few interesting tidbits.

The Web needs editing -- data needs to be organized and categorized in the process of becoming useful information, or even entertainment. (Infotainment!)

Funny how so many cultists here are against being called a church -- without much explanation.  A church needs to be able to answer the deep questions: why am I here (purpose)?  What happens after I die? Why is there evil? Or goodness?

I don't think k5 is a church, either; but it's a something, a relatively new something.  I'd wish for a more open story about what K5 is, especially from those who don't think it a church.
Freedom with responsibility

i highly dissagree (none / 0) (#120)
by Prophet themusicgod1 on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 08:48:08 PM EST

i think you are painting the idea of a church far too strictly. i do think that 'awnsering questions' may very well be a vital part of being a church, but as the kult has shown me, those questions may not be the only ones important enough to ask. perhaps "what should i do with my life?"1 "should i commit suicide or should i suffer on?"2 and "the world is going to hell in a handbasket - how do i cope/survive/thrive?"3 other extreemly hard questions however could be awnsered similarily. would you agree that there are many hard questions in life, that a church could pick eight or nine and then create its foundations on them? stuff like "Freedom[of speech]" and "cryptography" and "intelligent people are good[best[the only people[worth keeping[from the concentration camps]]]]"? what would the church say about what happens after death? perhaps 'i don't know. why don't you take another hit from the bong of wisdom and ask the spirits for the awnser' ... 'i'm not sure. why don't you google for it?' ... 'i know, but to tell you would ruin the experience we call life. why don't you turn off your computer, live a little and mabye the question will make more sense ' etc

1. you should know yourself, know where you are going, and then know who's coming with you. and never get that order mixed up. we have 9 pre - thought through plans for you to follow if you need help for a template - but neither of these is suggested to be your sole source of a life. make your own, do none of the above, or all of the above! you are free with us...we will only help you if you need help, adn hopethat you help us when we need help.
2. "don't kill yourself, kill other people"-sktfm
3. "wear body armour"-sktfm

"I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
[ Parent ]
Holy Religious Wars, Batman! (4.80 / 5) (#80)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon Apr 21, 2003 at 10:31:25 PM EST

Nearly 600 people voted so far and the story has a score of 6.

That's quite an achievement, I would say.


Live your fucking life. Sue someone on the Internet. Write a fucking music player. Like the great man Michael David Crawford has shown us all: Hard work, a strong will to stalk, and a few fries short of a happy meal goes a long way. -- bride of spidy

range (none / 0) (#83)
by llimllib on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:33:00 AM EST

I've been anywhere from 19 to -9 for 26 hours now. Who knows where it will land...

[ Parent ]
Definitely not on the front page [n/t] (5.00 / 2) (#84)
by askey on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 02:12:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
mebby not church, but good enough for me. (3.00 / 1) (#85)
by chupacabra on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 05:22:46 AM EST

this is my church. http://subgenius.com

Too many skeletons in other peoples closets..

Where did that baby goat go?

Hail Bob! Wear Slacks! (n/t) (none / 0) (#99)
by Mr.Surly on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 03:42:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Very Clever (4.00 / 2) (#86)
by SanSeveroPrince on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 06:56:35 AM EST

Deprecating people who think personal entries should stay in the Diary section, all the while trying to post a personal entry out of the Diary section yourself.

Still -1. Not enough food for thought. Too much personal stuff. Post in Diaries.... ooops.


Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think

Disagree but +1FP (4.66 / 3) (#87)
by harrystottle on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 07:59:31 AM EST

for all the fascinating reactions you've provoked.

Mostly harmless
maybe not church (3.50 / 2) (#89)
by kheiligh on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 11:45:40 AM EST

but by your definition, wouldn't chapel fit more closely?

I don't think so (none / 0) (#97)
by llimllib on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 01:56:08 PM EST

I see where you're coming from, and for others k5 may be a chapel, which in my mind is a place I go to pray by myself. (Is that how you see it?)

To me, however, person to person contact and the community of k5 are key elements of why I return here, less than just reading the articles and meditating. It's a place with a goal - discussion, pedantry, intelligence - but it still has the human elements. Similarly, a church is a place with a goal - heaven, god, whatever (depends on your religion) - but it still has the elements of a community.

[ Parent ]
Hmm. (4.33 / 3) (#98)
by webwench on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 02:06:55 PM EST

If this is a church, is Rusty God, and someone from slashdot Satan? This metaphor, although arguably misplaced or misapplied, could be great fun.

Satan? (5.00 / 1) (#100)
by gjetost on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 05:27:30 PM EST

That's turmeric. A Proud American is trying to take the spot, though.

[ Parent ]
fiction section == rusty == satan [nt] (none / 0) (#135)
by Stick on Thu May 15, 2003 at 06:47:13 PM EST

Stick, thine posts bring light to mine eyes, tingles to my loins. Yea, each moment I sit, my monitor before me, waiting, yearning, needing your prose to make the moment complete. - Joh3n
[ Parent ]
The poll... (4.50 / 2) (#103)
by jabber on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 07:28:57 PM EST

... needs an "all of the above" option.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Nice article, but you missed a point. (5.00 / 2) (#106)
by seraph93 on Tue Apr 22, 2003 at 11:05:11 PM EST

To some extent (greater or lesser depending on your opinion), Kuro5hin can be considered a church, but you missed one important factor. It is something that goes on in every true church, be it Christian, Catholic, Satanist, Discordian, Muslim, Jewish, Thelemic, Subgenius, or whatever:


While many may consider merely reading Kuro5hin every day to be ritualistic behavior, one must admit that the action of clicking on a bookmark is vastly different from that of participating in a Catholic Mass. Or chanting the Sri Syadastian Chant. Or performing the Mass of the Phoenix. Or attending a Subgenius Devival. Or whatever.

Maybe I'm wrong, though. I haven't been a Kuro5hin devotee for all that long. Is there an official ritual? What constitues the Kuro5hin Mass? What are the sacraments? What are the signs? I didn't see anything in the FAQ. If there isn't one, maybe we should make one up.
Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
easy (none / 0) (#107)
by jjayson on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 04:09:13 AM EST

reloading is a ritual in the same repeitive vain as the Catholic chruch's Holy Marys.
Smile =)
* bt krav magas kitten THE FUCK UP
<bt> Eat Kung Jew, bitch.

[ Parent ]
I believe you meant 'vein'... (none / 0) (#108)
by Delirium on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 06:59:43 AM EST

...or did you?

[ Parent ]
Our ritual (5.00 / 1) (#113)
by llimllib on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 12:32:54 PM EST

In my analogy, you attend in a K5 "mass" every time you comment, read a story, write a story, or otherwise participate in the community. K5 has distributed the mass, and made it possible for many people to come at anytime they please.

[ Parent ]
Ritual and Religion. (5.00 / 1) (#125)
by ChaosD on Thu Apr 24, 2003 at 08:27:56 AM EST

I think closely associating ritual with religion might be a mistake. Sure, many religions have rituals - and many rituals are religious in nature, but this is an incidental association. Most social groups have rituals (Ok, Web-based discussion forums like K5 don't have communal rituals - but I bet each and every one of us follows an individual, but pre-set, pattern when reading K5).
I also want to point out that some religions have no ritual at all - take a look at the Quakers. Ok, sitting quietly in a room (with tea and biscuits afterwards) could be seen as ritualistic but only at a push (BTW - no, I'm not a Quaker but yes, I have been to a meeting).
There are no stupid questions
[ Parent ]
Ritual? A proposed addition to kuro5hin... Events (none / 0) (#134)
by simul on Thu May 15, 2003 at 03:28:19 PM EST

I really want to go all out and make kuro5hin crazy popular. We need events.

Members may list their zip code. Members may post events. Events are voted on by people in or near the zip code. The vote is "i'm going to go" or "i'm not going to go". The trick is that the more people vote for an event, the wider the radius gets. Thresholds are established for dumping an event and for stages of "radius widening". When an event gets dumped, it dumps back to the previous radius level. Events are posted to the "events" section - sorted by date - but you only see events near you (based on popularity).

An aside: ethepeople.org and kuro5hin - the two sites should definitely *crosspost* top voted articles to each other's sites, and encourage members of both to visit each other. Or they should merge completely. Kuro5hin has a better layout, UI and editing system. Ethepeople has an excellent "decaying popularity" system for ranking articles and a notion of "regional" posts... for scaleability and discussion of issues that impact people regionally.

Read this book - first 24 pages are free to browse - it rocks
[ Parent ]

For spiritual fulfillment... (4.00 / 1) (#119)
by skyknight on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 08:27:59 PM EST

join the Church of Emacs. Of course, if you feel that ritualistic suffering is a necessary component of good religion, then perhaps try vi. If you need help getting started, I recommend this tutorial.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
Quote (none / 0) (#127)
by arose on Thu Apr 24, 2003 at 07:25:52 PM EST

I am sure you will have no trouble understanding that taking any religion too seriously -- even the Church of Emacs -- can be hazardous to your health.

Dzīvot ir kaitīgi, no tā mirst.
[ Parent ]
NO I WILL NOT ENTER A SUBJECT :P (4.00 / 1) (#121)
by Prophet themusicgod1 on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 09:23:19 PM EST

3 points of interest [but i fogot 2 allready :/]:
"Nondenomination" denomination... kay to begiin with dictionary.com:
de·nom·i·na·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-nm-nshn) n. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy. One of a series of kinds, values, or sizes, as in a system of currency or weights: Cash registers have compartments for bills of different denominations. The stamps come in 25˘ and 45˘ denominations. A name or designation, especially for a class or group.
wow. does that ever reek of dewey/pragmatism.
common faith- faith in the voting system, or the k5 computer system[ie the server, the modem, the isp, the community, etc ] legal hierarchy [check.-who has 0 vote ability? who has power on the k5 boxen?[rusty!]] not sure if you meant the money one or not. a class or group...that would mean we are denominated as k5'ers or the like. or even !/.er's. denom...name...classification...meaning?]
"All of our discussions are centered around specific topics, which is perfect for geeks. However, I don't get the actual friendly feeling of shaking someone's hand, and one-sided diary conversations and IRC conversations are a poor substitute." while i personally have not had any real freinds made / relationships forged in this place specifically [though i have encounterred some freinds] i think this is based on an attack of the whole, which is in turn unjustified. [wow...fallacy of division and false premises-hopeless conclusion i say!]. when i say this i mean you aren't seeing that the internet can be used for such purposes. this is simply untrue, as when you find hermits like myself, the closest we'll ever get is through a screen, and i would argue that the screen is closer than face to face contact - as the screen is a part of my mind / thinking...you don't get much closer than that without it being charged under adultery in some states.

while k5 could end up being a place where no one truly sees one another, it must be known that the internet as a whole can be. i've met all but one[or mabye two] of my girlfreinds online... and when i had a social life it was mostly from people met online. i could go on and on, but do i really need to?

i do think , however that there are some amazing people here, to the point i don't even know if i should be amongst all you shooting stars. i just havn't got to know any of you really well yet.
...and damnit i wish there was more of a Regina stock of k5ers sometimes

is it a church though? well i'm not sure if i'd throw that on it so soon. perhaps it may develop into one. i'd think 'talent-energy sink' or 'member-effort-time recepticle' may be a better description for the time being
"I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
I believe in subjects (5.00 / 1) (#122)
by llimllib on Wed Apr 23, 2003 at 11:17:30 PM EST

As for nondenomination, I see your point. Really, I'm defining K5 as a denomination of users. What I meant to say was that I am comparing K5 to a very general idea of a church, not to a Christian Church, a Jewish Temple, or an Islamic Mosque. I should have been clearer on that point, and nondenomination was probably a poor choice of words.

Now, about the feelings I miss in a K5 community, I think I understand what you're saying. As a person with hermetic tendencies myself, I feel the beauty in exposing my thought through writing on the internet. However, there is still something about talking to a person, looking them in the eye, shaking their hand, that cannot be duplicated for me by textual communication. I believe that you did meet your girlfriends online; however, I'm fairly certain that you still needed to see them in person. There is something unique about interpersonal contact that I find lacking in K5.

I don't understand how you believe an essentially textual medium can become a place to meet other people. You may meet the idea of a person here, but you still need to go somewhere to truly meet a person.

[ Parent ]
text (none / 0) (#123)
by Prophet themusicgod1 on Thu Apr 24, 2003 at 02:53:38 AM EST

thanx for reply,
if only.  actually, the reality of it is, that it isn't just text any more[even though sometimes i want it to be...].  we can display what we feel, and what we feel like displaying...  in essence, i become my music, my words, my applications, my poetry, and whatever video when / if i ever get video up and running.  like the fans of a specific artist begin to truly know the artist, is the kind of know that i think i should be trying to convince you in.  mabye i went the wrong direction trying to make it seem as though to know a person in real life is to know them - i see this nowhere near the truth but i can see where you aregoing.  in the meanwhile...two of my more significant girlfreinds i never met.  i know i know ... some people would tease me on that, and mabye be justified but both of them i at least felt that i was really close to. i'm going to visit one of them this summer, as she's getting mairried to a person she would never have met had it not been for me :) AAannyways.  yes i think when i'm thinking of to know someone, is more thinking of other people knowing an artist, or more knowing me as an artist.  perhaps that is where i am being confuzing.
"I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
[ Parent ]
you sound as drunk as I am (none / 0) (#124)
by llimllib on Thu Apr 24, 2003 at 03:58:17 AM EST

Salud. <tips cup and says "cheers">

[ Parent ]
write-in vote: all of the above (none / 0) (#131)
by fink on Sun Apr 27, 2003 at 02:52:25 AM EST

K5ism | 134 comments (94 topical, 40 editorial, 0 hidden)
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