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[P]
How Has Kuro5hin Changed Your Life?

By pHatidic in Meta
Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:55:35 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Has K5 caused you to take up a new hobby? Changed your political views? Awakened you to a new skill, recipe, sport, or activity? Prodded you into learning to write or keeping a diary? Recommended a good book or published an especially pleasing short story? Introduced you to a friend?


After reading GoStone's article I took up playing Go which I had never heard of before that point, eventually reaching the rank of 14 kayu. Durkie's article on Dumpster Diving inspired me to subscribe to the alt.dumpster newsgroup, although I never had the balls to actually go out and try for myself. Thanks to Michael Crawford's article Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads I have discovered some amazing songs and bands on iRate that I would never have known about otherwise. Mayhap next year in college I will be able to test out Yellowbeard's beer brewing advice.

I now know more about illegal drugs than I ever wanted to; the in depth descriptions of the difference between LSD and shrooms come to mind. Consequently my views have changed and I am now against the war on drugs, although I do no illegal drugs myself. And if I ever want to start my own porno site then thanks to anon868 I'll have a good idea of how to artfully arrange a TGP.

When I needed a host for my website I turned to a company who supported K5 via text-ads. When I needed something to do with 24 bucks I turned to Rusty for a 6 month site subscription. When I got a C in my college writing seminar I turned to the diaries section for solace that bad writing is relative.

How has K5 affected your life?

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Related Links
o GoStone's article
o Dumpster Diving
o Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads
o artfully arrange a TGP
o Also by pHatidic


Display: Sort:
How Has Kuro5hin Changed Your Life? | 213 comments (208 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
Well (2.88 / 18) (#1)
by mcc on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:33:07 AM EST

As a direct result of kuro5hin, I am now significantly more skilled at writing haiku.

It's too bad I hate haiku.

Really? (none / 2) (#17)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:24:08 AM EST

He hates haiku so
there is nothing more to say
but "spring" to finish

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
If what you are now (none / 2) (#28)
by Harold Faltermeyer on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:48:59 AM EST

is significantly skilled, I don't even want to know what you used to be like at it.

[ Parent ]
Well, I actually DID go out dumpster diving... (2.92 / 14) (#2)
by Psycho Dave on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:59:43 AM EST

My colleague Jen wanted to do an article on Food Not Bombs out here in Chicago, and wanted to take me along for back up.

So went to this anarchist book store, sat through a discussion on whether or not they should vote in this coming election (in a true failure of direct democracy, they ended up undecided.) After hanging around the bookstore for an hour afterwards, listening to the leader of the Chicago communist party try and convince me that Stalin wasn't "all bad" and inviting me to go protest at the Republican convention (not gonna...I'm no activist) we finally hitch a ride with these two hardcore vegan dumpster divers.

Dumpster diving in the city isn't as good as doing it the 'burbs, they tell us. In the 'burbs, the dumpsters are placed in more remote areas, farther apart, and usually have more usable stuff in them. Canned goods aren't a great idea, since most of the cans are dinged, and there's a chance of catching salmonella. Fruits, vegetables, and bread are the best things to look for when diving.

So the four of us pile into a fifteen year-old Accord held together with bungie cords and go scooting around town. First place we hit is a grocery store, where we scrounge through the dumpster and come up with a few bags of grapes and two red onions. The Mexicans working on the loading dock were looking at us weird, so we didn't dawdle. The divers explained to us that while most stores don't really care whether or not you go through their shit (as long as you don't make a mess) some will think your a bum and run you off.

The next stop was behind an Italian restaurant, but we had to leave fast just for that same reason. Then to another grocery store, and we found a garbage bag filled with relatively clean and crisp lettuce. The divers examine it thoroughly, to make sure there wasn't any dead animals laying on it. I remark that "Yeah, it would be gross if you found all that stuff and there was a dead cat laying on top of it."

Bad response. Remember, these are vegans, and not just trendyfuck ones who do it to hide their cocaine habits but hardcore ones who won't let meat sit on the same shelf as their precious vegetables. So I get about five minutes worth of the spiel about words carrying political weight, how animals shouldn't be reduced to just being meat yadda-yadda. I figured, that since they're diving in dumpsters, they shouldn't be too picky. But practically, it makes sense. I know I sure as hell wouldn't be pulling expired meat or dairy products out of a dumpster.

So next we hit Einstein Bagels, and that was a score. An entire, undisturbed trashbag full of day old bagels. We take it an run, with me sitting in the back of the Accord with the bag on our lap. We stop into Treasure Island to get some grocery bags to divvy them up. Jen and I naturally get stuck with all the asiago cheese bagels.

We hit the Odwalla factory, but there's nothing there. Our last stop was the most fruitful though. It was a market by a police station, so we couldn't be as thorough as we could have been, but we came away with a couple bundles of asparagus, tons of bananas, a few stalks of celery, more tomatoes, more lettuce, a couple potatoes etc.

As we divvied up our last take (Jen and I pretty much only took the bagels, a tomato, and half the lettuce since we don't have kitchens at the moment) they told us to make sure all the veggies were washed thoroughly, using some sort of spray or at least double rinsing them in a sink. They also said we should eat the food quickly, since it was already expired there was only about a three day window. They dropped us off by red line station and we trotted through the turnstiles carrying our loads. We had some tuna and avacado back at the hotel. After washing the lettuce and tomato in the sink, we took a few bagels and made sandwiches with what we had gotten. Let me say, that a meal made primarily of stuff taken from dumpsters upset my stomach less than the hot dogs in this city.

I come away from the experience with this impression--it is staggering the amount of food we waste in this country. I was reading somewhere that a grocery store completely turns over it's merchandise every thirty-six hours. That's every can, every carrot, every package of sausage. It is entirely possible for a person to eat generously from what can be found in a supermarket dumpster, and many do. They aren't going for your half eaten sandwich folks. With some washing, this food was perfectly acceptable to eat.

The one drawback of course is, you don't get to eat a very varied diet. And I'll admit, Jen and I threw all of our left-over lettuce and bagels away three days later.

ewww (none / 3) (#4)
by folker on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:41:10 AM EST

vegetables are fucking disgusting.

next time, look for recycling bins full of cans & scrap metal so you can sell it and buy real food.

[ Parent ]

You'll die young and sickly (none / 0) (#87)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:38:17 PM EST

Vegetables are good for you. They're even better raw.

We're omnivores, garbage eaters. We need meat AND potatos!

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Vegans? (none / 0) (#46)
by wurp on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:10:33 PM EST

I thought vegans ate no animal products.  Bagels from Einstein's definitely don't qualify.  (Milk, cheese, etc.)
---
Buy my stuff
[ Parent ]
Bagels don't have milk in them (none / 0) (#48)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:57:44 PM EST

Bagels aren't made with milk or cheese. The store does sell those things as well as meat, but they aren't ingredients in the bagels. Given that they aren't even spending money at the store, I don't see how they're supporting animal products just by grabbing stuff out of the dumpster.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]
Oh. (none / 0) (#52)
by wurp on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:02:55 PM EST

Duh.  Thanks for the info :)
---
Buy my stuff
[ Parent ]
They avoided the cheese bagels. (none / 1) (#53)
by Psycho Dave on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:06:34 PM EST

In fact, they were reluctant to even take the bagels that were touching the cheese ones. They went through a laundry list of diseases someone can catch from being even in contact with animal product, and were careful to break open each one to make sure they weren't egg bagels.

Now, I'm sure though that animal product is involved in the creation of even a plain Einstein's bagel. Does yeast qualify as an animal product or a living thing? Isn't there a little milk in the dough?

Still, I think veganism is weird. Especially militant political veganism. Not killing an animal for food is understandable in my world. Not eating eggs, milk, cheese, etc. just because you think man doesn't have any sort of dominion on living creatures is silly.

Goddamn, am I hankering for some foie gras and veal...

[ Parent ]

It always makes me think (none / 0) (#54)
by wurp on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:13:25 PM EST

It always makes me think they would rather we killed the animals to build housing or farmland where the facilities we used to hold the animals were.  I mean, it's blatantly obvious we would do so.

If I were concerned about it (well, more than I am), I would be fighting for ethical treatment of the animals we eat rather than fighting to get us to wipe them out rather than breed & consume them.  I would much rather we ensure that cattle are kept in a reasonably comfortable environment and then killed without a torturous experience than for us to kill 'em all so they don't trample our corn.
---
Buy my stuff
[ Parent ]

Animal husbandry (none / 2) (#55)
by Psycho Dave on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:20:59 PM EST

I always think that if you treat animals well in their short lives, and kill them humanely, the meat yielded will be of higher quality. I don't believe in cruelty to animals, but I don't think that eating them is necessarily cruel. I think that the rancher and slaughterhouse worker are fundamentally different from a person who tortures a dog.

Though, I still can't resolve that philosophy to my love of veal and my extreme curiousity about foie gras....mmmm...I wish I was a foodie.

[ Parent ]

True (none / 1) (#86)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:36:15 PM EST

My friend Mike has pigs, and MAN that's some tasty pork! Of course, the fact that he gets five gallon buckets of discarded ice cream to mix with their feed probably doesn't hurt either...

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

This makes me think... (none / 1) (#93)
by egeland on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:22:02 PM EST

It always makes me think they would rather we killed the animals to build housing or farmland where the facilities we used to hold the animals were.  I mean, it's blatantly obvious we would do so.

Did you know that it takes 15 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat?
Or that the vast majority (IIRC, over 80%) of crops grown are fed to animals, not humans?
And that the area of land needed to raise one cow (3-400 lbs), could instead be used to grow something like 10,000 lbs (or more) of potatoes or carrots, for example?

If the growing of animals for food was phased out (in other words, use the ones that are alive now, but don't breed more to replace them), the grain alone would feed all the world's hungry many times over.

The environmental costs of raising animals for meat (and dairy) are huge; each head of cattle produces something like 20 lbs of droppings every day. Multiply that by hundreds of millions of cattle, and you might be able to imagine the mountain of crap, most of which is wasted by washing into waterways (the same waterways where you get your drinking water from, by the way), rather than used as fertilizer (because synthetic fertilizer, based on petroleum, is used).

I don't have the book I read where these things are expanded on with me right now, so I can't quote exact numbers, but the amount of water wasted on growing one cow is immense, literally thousands of gallons.

--
Some interesting quotes
[ Parent ]

On the flip side (which weighs more heavily)... (3.00 / 2) (#116)
by CodeWright on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 03:33:02 PM EST

...they are really tasty. Yum.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
So you're a PETA member... (none / 1) (#169)
by mcgrew on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 07:24:50 PM EST

People Eating Tasty Animals?

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

I'm not just a member... (none / 1) (#179)
by CodeWright on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 07:45:09 AM EST

...I'm the President!

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
touching the cheese ones (none / 0) (#85)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:33:57 PM EST

Gees, for some reason tonight's posts all make me think of music. Ever hear the Queers' Stupid Fucking Vegans? It's a classic!

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Veganism (none / 3) (#99)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:01:32 PM EST

I'm of the opinion that we Westerners (Americans, and a growing number of Europeans) eat way too much meat. Everything in moderation should work out fine for personal health, cruelty, and environmental impact. Just look at the extremes: On one hand we have the disgustingly obese, wolfing down "low-carb" cheesesteaks at every opportunity. On the other hand we have pale, sickly vegans who always seem to suffer from some malady. It's clear that a healthy medium is the answer here. Eastern cultures eat less meat and they aren't as fat as us.

And militant veganism is based on lies. If you don't want to use animal products due to a moral objection, that's fine with me. You can even make moral arguments and try to convince me. But PETA-style "collateral" arguments about milk causing cancer, meat making you impotent, etc are going to make me want to give you a STONE COLD STUNNER. Don't fall back on BS lies and junk-science to convince me of something. PETA members aren't vegans because they're concerned about cancer, they're vegans because they have a moral objection to using animals.

You don't need any animal products in bagels, and I'd be surprised if Einstein's used any unnecessary lard, butter, or milk, especially since bagel places are big with yuppie and college types.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

Vegan food still kills (none / 2) (#109)
by DrH0ffm4n on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 07:56:54 AM EST

Most vegans are probably unaware of where their foodstuffs are grown. Modern farming techniques kill millions of rodents and other pests to protect the production of most crops. Large scale agriculture is simply not economical unless you do so.

---
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

[ Parent ]
Well... (1.88 / 9) (#3)
by justAnotherProphet on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:38:54 AM EST

After debating with rmg (of all people!) I've really honed my critical thinking skills. Might be a troll, but there's some serious fucking intelligence there, waiting to talk to someone who isn't a complete retard.

new users. -sigh- (none / 2) (#30)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:18:12 AM EST

shouldn't your nick really be justAnotherrmgPhantomAccount? I guess that's over the character limit or something.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
No, not really. (none / 1) (#50)
by justAnotherProphet on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:59:18 PM EST

Just because I talk to rmg doesn't mean I am rmg. I made this account because I got sick of my old nickname, jargonCCNA.

[ Parent ]
I can sympathize. (none / 3) (#58)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 04:39:48 PM EST

This is the first time I've heard the nickname "jargonCCNA" and I'm sick of it too.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
ha! (none / 0) (#105)
by rmg on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:50:07 AM EST

indeed. well played.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

Close to the Edge (1.00 / 22) (#6)
by Green Cup on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:47:26 AM EST

I. The Solid Time Of Change
Anderson/Howe

A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace,
And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace,
And achieve it all with music that came quickly from afar,
Then taste the fruit of man recorded losing all against the hour.
And assessing points to nowhere, leading ev'ry single one.
A dewdrop can exalt us like the music of the sun,
And take away the plain in which we move,
And choose the course you're running.

Down at the edge, round by the corner,
Not right away, not right away.
Close to the edge, down by a river,
Not right away, not right away.

Crossed the line around the changes of the summer,
Reaching to call the color of the sky.
Passed around a moment clothed in mornings faster than we see.
Getting over all the time I had to worry,
Leaving all the changes far from far behind.
We relieve the tension only to find out the master's name.

Down at the end, round by the corner.
Close to the edge, just by a river.
Seasons will pass you by.
I get up, I get down.
Now that it's all over and done,
Now that you find, now that you're whole.

II. Total Mass Retain
Anderson/Squire

My eyes convinced, eclipsed with the younger moon attained with love.
It changed as almost strained amidst clear manna from above.
I crucified my hate and held the word within my hand.
There's you, the time, the logic, or the reasons we don't understand.

Sad courage claimed the victims standing still for all to see,
As armoured movers took approach to overlook the sea.
There since the cord, the license, or the reasons we understood will be.

Down at the edge, close by a river.
Close to the edge, round by the corner.
Close to the end, down by the corner.
Down at the edge, round by the river.

Sudden call shouldn't take away the startled memory.
All in all, the journey takes you all the way.
As apart from any reality that you've ever seen and known.
Guessing problems only to deceive the mention,
Passing paths that climb halfway into the void.
As we cross from side to side, we hear the total mass retain.

Down at the edge, round by the corner.
Close to the end, down by a river.
Seasons will pass you by.
I get up, I get down.

III. I Get Up, I Get Down
Anderson/Howe

In her white lace
You can clearly see the lady sadly looking.
Saying that she'd take the blame
For the crucifixion of her own domain.

I get up, I get down,
I get up, I get down.
Two million people barely satisfy.
Two hundred women watch one woman cry, too late.
The eyes of honesty can achieve.
How many millions do we deceive each day?

[Thru the duty she would coil their said
amusement of her story asking only interest
could be laid upon the children of her domain]

I get up, I get down.
I get up, I get down.

In charge of who is there in charge of me.
Do I look on blindly and say I see the way?
The truth is written all along the page.
How old will I be before I come of age for you?
I get up, I get down.
I get up, I get down.
I get up, I get down.

-1 (1.27 / 18) (#7)
by undermyne on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:00:32 AM EST

If I want to read this kind of tripe I will go browse HuSi.

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo

Snookums! (none / 0) (#136)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:58:40 PM EST

You've changed my life, that's for sure.

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Changed my life? WTF? It's just a web site. /nt (1.55 / 9) (#8)
by RandomLiegh on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:01:26 AM EST



---
Thought of the week: There is no thought this week.
---
No, but yes (2.71 / 7) (#9)
by spasticfraggle on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:05:06 AM EST

I couldn't say that k5 changed my life; but an article on The Glass Bead Game by Hermann Hesse (the book not the article) led me to read the book.

Saying that the book changed my life might be a little hyperbolic but it certainly affected me deeply.

How do you thank somebody for something like that? I guess like this: Thanks! ^_^

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!

Oh, and another thing... (2.75 / 4) (#18)
by spasticfraggle on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:35:51 AM EST

Now I have a a carrier bag full of low quality soap (if you're in the market for jagged shards of soap which doesn't lather but does produce an interesting burning sensation and accompanying rash when used just let me know). OTOH it may well come in handy next time I need to dispose of a body in my bathtub (as the surrounding region is now devoid of cuastic soda).

--
I'm the straw that broke the camel's back!
[ Parent ]
The usual (2.85 / 21) (#10)
by fenix down on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:46:54 AM EST

Dry mouth, nausea, constipation, insomnia, fatigue, urinary retention, confusion, anxiety, blurred vision, dizziness, weight gain, abdominal pain, headaches, tremors, rapid heartbeat, some sexual side-effects.  No worse than with a sugar pill.

My $0.02 US (2.60 / 5) (#11)
by Kasreyn on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:37:11 AM EST

Well, I've been here a while and I think it's improved my writing and *vastly* increased my awareness and understanding of politics. Technology, eh. I tend to find the average tech article at k5 to not be dumbed-down enough for me to follow too well. :P Dammit, Jim, I'm a philosopher, not a scientist. >_<;; <br>
The various how-to's have been wonderful, but I've never found the chance to put any of them to use. Mostly it's been the discussion of books and literature which have helped me. I've read a lot of great stuff on advice of people from this site. I also have a slick copy of MOPI sitting on my shelves, which has become one of my favorite books. It was also via k5 that I was introduced to the writings of Richard Dawkins, who has become one of my heroes.

Beyond that... socially? Sad to say, gangsta is the only one of you I talk to outside k5. >_<; Have never used the diary, dunno why. I may start using it if I ever feel the need for my personal life to be critiqued by 30 or so bored trolls. :) <br>
I've learned a bit about computers, a lot about politics, and I can karma whore with the best of them (but then, I could do that back on /.).

Mostly, k5 has filled many hours I would have had to find another way to waste, like playing Diablo II, which is my current fixation.


-Kasreyn


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
I know (2.83 / 6) (#12)
by ShiftyStoner on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:37:56 AM EST

I've learned something here. I just can't remember what. I know the first time I ever saw old men having an orgy was here. I would have only seen tubgirl or goatsecx or othr such sites once if not for this site.

 
( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler

What does it mean to change someone's life? (2.00 / 5) (#13)
by United Fools on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:52:54 AM EST


We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
I picked up Sluggy freeelance (none / 1) (#14)
by tetsuwan on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:07:29 AM EST

Sluggy is great. None of my friends had ever heard about it before.

Oh, and that story on what to look for when buying a house was also great.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance

Werl (2.90 / 10) (#15)
by sien on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:48:54 AM EST

Go is something I discovered here. Better links on Hernando DeSoto.

But really, you learn that there a million other people out there who think they are smart but don't put their full effort into their jobs and piss around making smart arse comments.

Oh, and after trying to write a few articles I have more respect for journalists. What they do is hard. Writing something good is hard. It's given me a hell of a lot more respect for The Economist.

K5 has taught me that I am not a unique and beautiful snowflake. And really, that's a valuable lesson.

Simple (3.00 / 8) (#16)
by grouse on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:58:20 AM EST

Now that I have become a K5 addict I have less time for work or socializing with real people.

You sad bastard!

"Grouse please don't take this the wrong way... To be quite frank, you are throwing my inner Chi out of its harmonious balance with nature." -- Tex Bigballs

when i think of kuro5hin, (1.93 / 16) (#19)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:05:03 AM EST

i think of rmg and all those wonderful rmg comments. the simple joy of rmg has brought all of us together in ways we often cannot articulate. in this post 9/11 world, rmg is a ray of hope -- rmg's comments are bridge across deep cultural rifts and emotional walls built up over a lifetime of trauma.

we've all laughed and cried together -- together with rmg... and i think in some ways it's made us all better people. even if some day kuro5hin closes down, we will all still remember those shining moments in which rmg touched us all. liberally.

i can hardly begin to say even for my own part how much rmg's participation here means to me personally, but maybe the rest of you can help me. in this thread, please describe in less than seventy-five words how rmg has changed your life. perhaps your words will inspire me to finally hash out the my deepest feelings about rmg and what his work means to us as a community.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean

rmg, a song for thee, by TISM it's Whatareye? (2.50 / 8) (#22)
by Russell Dovey on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:56:15 AM EST

You're a yob or you're a wanker -
Take your fucking choice
So who is your favourite genius
James Hird or James Joyce?
You ever seen a live performance?
Join the wanker club
You thought I meant table top dancing?
You're a yobbo, bub
What are ya? Yob or wanker?
Wankers once used mobile phones
But now that's sorta changing
And yobs once lived in cottage homes -
Ain't social change amazing?
If a yob and wanker want a girl
The wanker guy will get her -
Both of them are equally ugly
But the wanker hides it better
What are ya? Yob or wanker?
A wanker fights inequality
And for people's rights;
A wanker fights class prejudice
A yobbo just fights
Yob or wanker - wanker or yob
Pass me the brush to tar ya:
Make your choice then live your life;
Come on pal, what are ya?

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
[ Parent ]

I really like your comments (none / 0) (#68)
by ElMiguel on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:35:00 PM EST

But I suppose there isn't a chance that you'll go back to using capital letters, is there?

[ Parent ]
I was down on my luck (2.40 / 5) (#103)
by Empedocles on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:09:54 AM EST

and living in a cardboard box. I was using drugs - you know, the hard stuff: bennies, benzos, and even bathtub crank. I was selling my body to desperate foot fetishists; $20 a toe.

Then, rmg came into my life. He showed up one day, knocked at the door or my cardboard box, brought me outside, and told me he was going to anoint my precious box with holy oil. At first, I thought that he was just another schizophrenic whacko with delusions of grandeur, but I soon saw rmg for what he really was: a schizophrenic whacko with delusions of grandeur who was furiously masturbating on my house.

He took his penis between two fingers (it was too small for anything else) and began to furiously stroke his one-eyed trouser mouse. After two or three seconds (he had a problem with premature ejaculation, he told me later) a tiny bit of a greenish liquid (turned out to be from some exotic venereal disease contracted from livestock) came out and barely hit the wall of my abode.

Pulling his pants up, rmg told me that my house was now annoited with holy oil. Then, he turned around and left, muttering something cabalistic about well-lubricated cows under his breath.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what rmg has done for me.

---
And I think it's gonna be a long long time
'Till touch down brings me 'round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home

[ Parent ]

K5 has given me very valuable insights (3.00 / 9) (#20)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:27:39 AM EST

It taught me that I can be a real prick, even when some people think I'm being funny. It taught me that I can actually write a decent article that others seem to like. It taught me that stupid in-joke nicknames like "ta bu shi da yu" can make people constantly ask where the accents are.

I think the thing that K5 has taught me most of all is that it doesn't matter whether you give people an interesting site with a cool concept, with great discussion and interesting people and yet remains free for all - people will always do something to try to destroy that wonderful thing that's been created. And no matter what happens, there will always be a few whiners who never appreciate the efforts that others put in to make that thing awesome.

In a nutshell it's given me a unique insight into the human condition and how a community, no matter how open, will eventually start to self-destruct. This just confirms my world-view that mankind's central problem is sinfulness.

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה

Re: Mr. Bigballs (3.00 / 5) (#23)
by grouse on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:03:53 AM EST

YHBT.

You sad bastard!

"Grouse please don't take this the wrong way... To be quite frank, you are throwing my inner Chi out of its harmonious balance with nature." -- Tex Bigballs
[ Parent ]

Your perspective is skewed (none / 1) (#24)
by RandomLiegh on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:27:09 AM EST

In a nutshell it's given me a unique insight into the human condition and how a community, no matter how open, will eventually start to self-destruct.

An open community has no chance of survival, any more than a cash register left open in public as a chance to stay full.

The more "open" a community is, the more access people have (duh), including people who percieve the value of community as a negative. The more your community grows into a glorious edifice, the more people who break windows for a hobby are attracted to it. And the degree to which your community is open is the degree to which you leave yourself defenseless against casual or deliberate malice.

Mind you, it's no more possible to build a community on the intarweb than it is to base a friendship solely on it. Communities, even more than friendships, need shared experiences and tangible, shared vested interests. Niether of those are factors on a website, so to speak of a website as a "community" is mistaken at best, deluded at worst.

So, to wit, kuro5hin (or any other web site) does not qualify as a community to begin with; and to the extent that it aspires to be one, it shoots itself in the foot by aiming for the goal of so-called "openness".

This just confirms my world-view that mankind's central problem is sinfulness.

Oh.
You merely trolling.
Aw well. At least I got a chance to vent. :-)

---
Thought of the week: There is no thought this week.
---
[ Parent ]
Not quite. (none / 2) (#31)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:35:43 AM EST

People who perceive the value of community to be negative simply refrain from interacting with the community, insofar as such is possible in today's world where there is no frontier that is not governed by some set of laws.

People who attack a community, on the other hand, are like nihilists secretly angry at the world for not fulfilling their need for True Ultimate Meaning. That is, such people attack a community because the community failed to meet some emotional or physical need as expected.

In our case, the amount of time someone spends "trolling" K5 is directly proportional to the amount of emotional neediness and ego-instability suffusing every second of that person's frantically empty life.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
I disagree, and agree. (none / 1) (#35)
by RandomLiegh on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:03:49 PM EST

In my opinion you're reading too much into the whole she-bang; too much quanitywise, and too much self-congratulatorywise.
People who perceive the value of community to be negative simply refrain from interacting with the community, insofar as such is possible in today's world where there is no frontier that is not governed by some set of laws.

You obviously don't pay attention to the posts which cite "gayness" any time that community is referenced. These people aren't seething with deep, passionate rage or unfathomable depths of stygian darkness...they simply believe that developing emotional attatchment to words on a screen is lame. Beginning of story, end of story.

*In our case, the amount of time someone spends "trolling" K5 is directly proportional to the amount of emotional neediness and ego-instability suffusing every second of that person's frantically empty life

There are instances where that is the case,yes It can also be the case (and often is) that the amount of time somone spends trolling K5 is directly porportional to the amount of time that they are bored with their other activities.

---
Thought of the week: There is no thought this week.
---
[ Parent ]
The whole she-bop. (none / 0) (#36)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:30:04 PM EST

You obviously don't pay attention to the posts which cite "gayness" any time that community is referenced. These people aren't seething with deep, passionate rage or unfathomable depths of stygian darkness...they simply believe that developing emotional attatchment to words on a screen is lame. Beginning of story, end of story.
The story doesn't quite end with their belief in the lameness of attachment to words on a screen. The story ends when -- after taking the time to turn on the computer, open a web browser, browse to http://www.kuro5hin.org, click a story link, and [usually] read enough of the story/comments to have a context within which to construct a suitable "troll" -- such people exercise their belief in the lameness of attachment to words on a screen by posting a response to a story or comment. Which is a rather illuminating demonstration of how deeply their beliefs run, I think.

There are instances where that is the case,yes It can also be the case (and often is) that the amount of time somone spends trolling K5 is directly porportional to the amount of time that they are bored with their other activities.
Given that we live in the age of infinite diversions, and, to take the e-subset, practically limitless internet diversions, one must attribute motive to the selection of any particular diversion, or one must accept the proposition that out of the millions of online and offline diversions only "trolling" K5 is not boring and becomes the default behavior through mere process of elimination, or one must accept the proposition that there's definitely no logic to human behavior and our actions are in fact completely random.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
Actually (none / 1) (#43)
by Harold Faltermeyer on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:47:35 PM EST

The amount of time someone spends "contributing to the community" on K5 is directly proportional to the amount of emotional neediness and ego-instability suffusing every second of that person's frantically empty life.

[ Parent ]
Indeed. (none / 0) (#60)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 04:46:28 PM EST

Both trying to support the Kommunity and trying to disrupt the Kommunity are born of the universal human need to wank even when actual, flesh-and-blood poontang is available with negligable effort.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
What are you, a Kommunist? (nt) (none / 1) (#76)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:06:04 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
No, but I am Killmeplebian (none / 1) (#83)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:22:35 PM EST

NT

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
Kould we all just learn to get along? (nt) (none / 1) (#89)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:46:12 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Kno. (none / 3) (#123)
by Polverone on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 05:09:46 PM EST


--
It's not a just, good idea; it's the law.
[ Parent ]
-1: misuse of the letter "K" (none / 2) (#125)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 05:15:48 PM EST

Krikey. What a krap post!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Where are you from? (none / 1) (#128)
by MorePower on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 06:43:48 PM EST

>even when actual, flesh-and-blood poontang is available with negligable effort.

Where are you from? And how do I get there?

I my experience, obtaining flesh-and-blood poontang required a massive effort over the course of several years.



[ Parent ]
Stop dating 18-year-olds. (none / 2) (#148)
by killmepleez on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 01:04:44 PM EST

Unlike most guys, women in their late twenties and thirties are still growing, romantically. Most of the boys they dated in high school or college were too selfish [or themselves too inexperienced] to really reach the depths of a woman's pleasure. Hence, many teen girls use sex to get love/attention even if they don't particularly enjoy it.

Then, sometime in college or thereafter, she dates a guy who both knows what he's doing and is diligent enough to do it in bed, and suddenly she realizes that there is waaaay more to pleasure than her high school/college sweetheart yet understood. If she stays single, or [even better] if she marries and divorces, by her mid twenties she is developing a keen sexual prowess -- and the appetite to go along with it. By age 30, she knows what's really possible, she knows how to get there, and if you're caring, confident, cute, and are willing to do more than just poke it back and forth for three minutes, she'll eagerly bring you along for the ride.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
hm. (none / 3) (#56)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 03:45:01 PM EST

you're not far off, but you're indulging your own anger too much. it's true that many trolls are just angry and stupid, but that kind of troll usually sucks at trolling because they're stupid. these are the one line no response "trolls" we see so much of around here.

i can tell you that i'm not angry at this site or even the people here. i just have an unusual idea of fun, a sick sense of humor, and an addictive personality. it's true i'm not too keen on "joe kuro5hin" or whatever, but i think many of the regulars are alright. in fact, even though rusty annoys me with the way he runs the site, i think he's an alright guy too.

i've had this discussion too many times though...

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

define "fun" and "humor" (none / 0) (#64)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:21:58 PM EST

i can tell you that i'm not angry at this site or even the people here. i just have an unusual idea of fun, a sick sense of humor, and an addictive personality.
There's a reason you find this fun. Either our actions are random and thus senseless or our actions are the result of internal motives. Even the "random" trolls who respond to stupid articles by posting their grocery list, or lyrics to a song, or something not related by direct context, are communicating the idea, "Hey, your article is teh ghay, or even if it's good, you're posting it to this forum just because you can, so here is some more noise, just because I can". "[B]ecause I can", however, is still a human motive. All actions that are knowable and predictable are motivated and hence indefensible as "it's just something to do, I am not personally vested in this activity". Such defenses are the barest of self-deception.

Which is why Robert Martin, author of The Philosopher's Dictionary, tells this story:
A colleague of mine who thinks that the notion of free will is nonsense explains what he takes to be the silliness of the notion this way: "Let's say you and I are in my office. Suddenly, I run out into the hall and down the corridor. You run alongside me and ask me why I'm doing this. I reply that I don't know. THAT is free will!"


__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
well, i disagree with your premise (none / 2) (#66)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:37:07 PM EST

that all action is motivated, but it's irrelevant anyway. even if you establish this dubious premise, that's far from demonstrating that the motivation you ascribe to someone's action is the correct one.

fun is purely a matter of sentiment. i find it fun to cause a ruckus, especially a rhetorical ruckus like you'll find when i troll. similarly, i find it humorous to say crazy things and still more humorous to have them taken at face value.

i don't troll out of malice and i never have. i've tried, but if it's not fun, i just stop caring because i am naturally devoid of serious malice. it's true that i hold many people here in considerable contempt, but that's a different matter. i certainly don't troll the site to get back at them (though i do sometimes troll those persons directly).

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

katy song (none / 0) (#90)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:59:39 PM EST

I understand now. I apologize for not comprehending your position earlier in the thread. You believe we do not live in a universe of causal relationships. There are human events which occur outside any chain of antecendent and consequent. There are things about which we may ask the question, "Why?" or "From Where?", and the answer is not just unknown as in Dr. Martin's example above, it is also unknowable because it is nonexistent.
I'm unable to disprove your belief.

i don't troll out of malice and i never have. i've tried, but if it's not fun, i just stop caring because i am naturally devoid of serious malice. it's true that i hold many people here in considerable contempt, but that's a different matter. i certainly don't troll the site to get back at them (though i do sometimes troll those persons directly).
I am curious about your feelings on "malice".
Is my dog malicious when he captures a squirrel and rips its belly open?
If I see a fire ant crossing the concrete directly ahead of me and I do not bother to change course and knowingly crush her, was my disregard for her existence malicious?
What if I'm in my car and a little red-headed girl runs out in the street chasing a wayward red balloon, and I believe that all redheads are created inferior by YHVH and they are no more than the other creatures we have been given holy dominion over, such as ants, and so I do not bother to change course and instead knowingly crack her skull like an egg beneath my F250 truck, was my disregard for her existence malicious?
If rmg -- in his completely random, unpremeditated ennui which is not at all related to his psychological profile or his previous experiences or his general attachment to the "rmg" identity and the forum within which that identity lives and moves and has its being -- spends a significant amount of his [or his employer's] time day in, day out, week after week, unmotivatedly and unspitefully posting various crude statements or disruptive non sequitirs on Kuro5hin.org which knowingly harass the website owner and drive away other users or decrease their enjoyment of their technoculture web community, is his disregard for the discussions and emotions of other members malicious?

Answers:
To my dog, no. To the squirrel, yes.
To me, no. To the ant, yes.
To me, no. To the little red-headed blind girl and her grieving father who went through ten years and tens of thousands of dollars in fertility treatments with his wife to finally have their one and only child who is the only living reminder of his beautiful wife because she died giving birth, yes.
To rmg, no. To the affected members of Kuro5hin.org........

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
hm. (none / 1) (#94)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:30:54 PM EST

well, i definitely don't think we live in a universe of causal relationships, but again, i don't see the relevance.

i think malice is something that an individual feels, not something that's out there floating around in the world -- at least, the sense of the word malice i used before (as opposed to the "his words dripped with malice" sense). as such, i don't think i can ascribe any meaning to the squirrel or affected member of kuro5hin's perception of malice beyond his or her own desire to see the adversary as evil.

also, i'm not crude! at least not often and not compared to the rest of the so-called "trolls" around here! and i doubt i've had that much of a net negative effect considering i single-handedly (and quite accidently) drove away turmeric who everyone thought was such a burden on the community. i don't think rusty is particularly put upon by my presence here either. in short, whatchu talkin' 'bout willis?

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

our actions are in fact completely random (none / 2) (#84)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:23:08 PM EST

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind.

Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind

[Now] Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy.
Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind.

-Kansas

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Those are very moving words. Thank you. (none / 0) (#91)
by killmepleez on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:01:30 PM EST

NT

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
Cash registers in public (3.00 / 4) (#34)
by Driusan on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:01:21 PM EST

I used to live near a sushi place. They didn't have a cashier. Instead they had an open cash register, just sitting there. You'd  order your sushi, they'd make it for you, tell you the price, and then you'd go to the cash register, put in your money and take out your change. I don't know of it ever being emptied by someone who wasn't supposed to empty it.

There was also a guy with a big knife a couple feet away.


--
This space for rent.
[ Parent ]

And ninjas. (none / 2) (#73)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:01:15 PM EST

Heaps and heaps of ninjas. They flip out and kill people, you know.

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
In what way did you contradict me? (nt) (none / 0) (#71)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:00:06 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
That was just uncalled for. (2.60 / 5) (#26)
by Harold Faltermeyer on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:44:55 AM EST

I lost a lot of respect for you with that unwarranted slam against the late great Tex Bigballs.

[ Parent ]
Unwarranted? (nt) (none / 1) (#135)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:55:55 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
you must take the A train (none / 0) (#40)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:18:01 PM EST

to go to sugar hill way up in harlem...

if you missed the A train, you have missed the quickest way to make it up to suuuugggar hill in haaarlem...

hurry, get on board it's comin'.... listen to those rails a thrumpin'... alll aboard get on the A train....

soooon you will be on sugar hill in haaaarrlem...

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

Amen brother! (nt) (none / 0) (#70)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:55:10 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Dude... (none / 0) (#81)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:16:30 PM EST

They killed your troll in my Asimov article. It's a shame too, since I'm such a biter.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

no troll, man! (none / 1) (#82)
by rmg on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:20:00 PM EST

i really think sci fi sucks!

actually, i'm just pissed your article displaced the clearchannel one because i have a troll in that one that's up to 16 responses (which is pretty high by kuro5hin standards given activity here and all that). going for a new rmg record here!

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

k5 has changed my life.. (none / 1) (#114)
by Wah on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:59:54 PM EST

...by showing me how assholes come in all shapes and sizes.
--
umm, holding, holding...
[ Parent ]
K5? (none / 0) (#130)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:25:59 PM EST

I think you meant Goatse.cx.

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
yes (none / 0) (#153)
by Wah on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:32:09 PM EST

that was part of it...

remember...all shapes and sizes.
--
umm, holding, holding...
[ Parent ]

Have you considered... (none / 0) (#149)
by killmepleez on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 01:18:04 PM EST

...the possibility, nay, given the readily apparent fixational tendencies of a Kuroner, the probability that each of those 16 'responses' is the creation of the same nefarious untellectual, hiding behind several different noms de plume for no other purpose than to troll you?

I think it is you who are wrong about a great deal.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
understandable then (none / 0) (#168)
by mcgrew on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 07:15:46 PM EST

Asimov wasn't just a science fiction writer. Of the over five hundred books he wrote, quite a very large number were nonfiction. Some were textbooks used in colleges. All were easy to read, even fun to read.

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

kuro5hin.org has ruined my life. (2.85 / 7) (#21)
by Russell Dovey on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:44:53 AM EST

It's not k5's fault. But this site has, nevertheless, been central in my unhealthy practice of staying up for too long, which has led me into the deepest attack of depression I've ever had.

Whether it's lurking on #kuro5hin or trying to shepherd a story through the queue, I have to carefully and consciously force myself to press the little x's and leave the computer room. It's very hard.

Anyway, that's enough moanking. (A typo, or a sexual practice that, involving fellatio as it so obviously does, is revealing of the author's psyche? Only YOU, and Freud, can decide.)

K5 has been helpful in understanding US politics. I never would have guessed before that Republicans were actually capable of coherent, intellectually honest discourse.

Shame the Democrats didn't follow their lead, really...

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

Typo (none / 1) (#44)
by wurp on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:04:17 PM EST


I never would have guessed before that Republicans were actually capable of coherent, intellectually honest discourse.

I think you mean capable of an incoherent, dishonest course.
---
Buy my stuff
[ Parent ]

You're a Democrat, right? (none / 1) (#134)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:55:17 PM EST

You enjoy changing people's words. Just like a politician... you aren't one by any chance are you?

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
boring troll <nt> (none / 0) (#155)
by wurp on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 03:20:26 PM EST


---
Buy my stuff
[ Parent ]
I'm not trolling, just commenting. (nt) (none / 0) (#173)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 11:27:08 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
No, I'm a devil's advocate. (none / 0) (#184)
by Russell Dovey on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 01:09:43 PM EST

The Democrats and Republicans both share political assumptions which don't apply here in Australia, like God having fucking ANYTHING to do with politics.

That, and I'm one of those who put their religion as "antagonist" in the last census.

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
[ Parent ]

Same here! (nt) (none / 0) (#133)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:54:09 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
I can run faster and jump higher. (2.62 / 8) (#25)
by duffbeer703 on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:43:27 AM EST

Thank you K5!

Dude! (none / 0) (#79)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:08:03 PM EST

Why'd you close the bar? Just because I moved away you went bankrupt?

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

It's been good (3.00 / 7) (#27)
by iGrrrl on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:47:21 AM EST

I used K5 to hone my writing skills, back before there were diaries. By about that point, the user base had increased enough that if I had a thought about a story, some one else had already said it. Then, I diarised. Then, I got too busy and have retreated primarily to lurking.

Amazingly, I also made some real life friends through K5. We meet for lunch every now and again.

Oh, and as others have noted, I got to see humanity at its worst and most monkey-ish. ("Let's take something someone else built, and to which I have contributed nothing, and try to destroy it." )

--
You cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone who regards other people as toys to be played with. localroger
remove apostrophe for email.

So that's where you've been nt (none / 0) (#77)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:06:49 PM EST


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Humanity at its most Human (none / 0) (#199)
by RadiantMatrix on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 12:21:59 AM EST

iGrrrl quoth:

I got to see humanity at its worst and most monkey-ish. ("Let's take something someone else built, and to which I have contributed nothing, and try to destroy it." )
I agree with the idea behind your sentiment, but I fear that attitude is really humanity at its most human.

Consider: the most momentous events in human history have been tied in some way to destruction. The Romans, though we now revere them for much of that which is non-destructive (Art, construction, &c.), achieved through war and conquest a place in history. A great many of our modern inventions were spawned or made possible by destructive efforts; the jet aircraft being one of the most notable.

Humanity is a destructive force; it has been throughout the vast majority of its history. We can only hope that more people start to see such behavior as "monkey-ish" to the point it becomes universally deprecated.


"In any sufficiently large group of people, most are idiots" - Kaa's Law

[ Parent ]
certainly agree (none / 1) (#208)
by iGrrrl on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 02:26:27 PM EST

Humanity is a destructive force; it has been throughout the vast majority of its history. We can only hope that more people start to see such behavior as "monkey-ish" to the point it becomes universally deprecated.

So much of it is hard-wired, that it has to be consciously or culturally subverted. As a species, we're not good at long-term vs. short term gain and we need our status hits. The trick is that one can define status differently from the monkey way. The Zuni, iirc, reversed the usual status behavior by culture. People who had status could lose it by acting as if they wanted a leadership role, and anyone gunning for top monkey was automatically disqualified for the job.

Individual people have to work on it themselves, and the most successful way is to define your own culture counter to the monkey norm, and act through it as you interface with the world.

--
You cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone who regards other people as toys to be played with. localroger
remove apostrophe for email.
[ Parent ]

Several things (3.00 / 5) (#32)
by tzanger on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:39:56 AM EST

  1. I have more of a clue on raising chickens
  2. The kids and I now make our own cheese sticks, although we use Havarti instead of Mozzarella
  3. The entire casino odyssey was one of the best series of articles on this site, ever.
  4. Making bread, while time consuming, is something I'd like to try sometime
There are others, but these are the ones that stick out in my mind.

Now I waste time on k5 and /. (2.72 / 11) (#33)
by cburke on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:40:32 AM EST

instead of just /.

HOORAY!

You're stupid (1.00 / 15) (#37)
by Bum Bum on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:34:12 PM EST



it allowed me (3.00 / 4) (#38)
by Xcyther on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:51:15 PM EST

to witness the greatest troll ever:

turmeric

_________________________________________
"Insydious" -- It's not as bad as you think

I am turmeric's most loyal fan (3.00 / 6) (#65)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:33:06 PM EST

I think turmeric is a gifted writer. I'm serious. I think he's the best writer K5 has ever known.

I always voted +1FP for every turmeric article I found in the queue, if I was able to vote quick enough before the other moderators voted to dump it.

He is sorely missed.


-- Could you use my embedded systems development services?


[ Parent ]

I tried vegemite (none / 1) (#39)
by jacob on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 12:55:58 PM EST

as a result of the vegemite article from a while back. I like it now.

That's all I got for ya.

--
"it's not rocket science" right right insofar as rocket science is boring

--Iced_Up

Interesting (none / 0) (#41)
by pHatidic on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:29:36 PM EST

Is there somewhere it can be purchased in the US?

[ Parent ]
I had no problem (none / 0) (#42)
by jacob on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 01:37:53 PM EST

I got a jar at the (then) local Fiesta grocery store in Houston. They prided themselves on a good global imports section, though, so maybe other regular old grocery stores wouldn't carry it. In any event, any food importer and probably most upscale groceries will have it. It's not that hard to find.

--
"it's not rocket science" right right insofar as rocket science is boring

--Iced_Up

[ Parent ]
There should be some stores (none / 0) (#132)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:52:13 PM EST

I've heard there are stores that sell Aussie stuff.

NOTE TO ALL AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you do decide to try Vegemite, don't slap it on your toast like axle-grease. Instead, take the tiniest smidgen of the stuff and spread it thinly. It's strong stuff!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]

I get to "talk" to people (none / 2) (#45)
by Intelligentsia on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:09:15 PM EST

who aren't complete morons; what more d'ya need?

We need to prove that we can spread rumors just like the mainstream media.—waxmop


Where? [nt] (none / 1) (#178)
by Entendre Entendre on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 02:09:33 AM EST


--
Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.
[ Parent ]

K5 saved my life (2.50 / 6) (#47)
by Imma Troll on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:22:53 PM EST

I was a sad, depressed troll, hiding under my bridge. I was even considering suicide. Then Rusty opened K5 to new members and now my life has meaning again!
Will somebody light my sig?
bOZ bIGbALLS (none / 1) (#51)
by Pop Top on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 02:59:25 PM EST

I miss 'dem.

K5 has taught me (2.92 / 14) (#57)
by godix on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 04:36:01 PM EST

that the people who whine the most about politics, culture, or humanity are the people who understand the least about them. Similarly, I've learned that the people who do understand politics, culture, or humanity aren't about to waste their time arguing with idiots. There's a lesson about humanity in there somewhere.

They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet...
- Michael Moore describing Americans
on a similar note (3.00 / 5) (#98)
by klash on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:31:12 PM EST

K5 has taught me that the road of pure intellectualizing does not lead to enlightenment. Despite the fact that there are a lot of smarts floating around here, a disturbing amount of the conversation is completely inane. Intelligence alone can not make for an enlightened society.

[ Parent ]
you do not understand (none / 2) (#115)
by LilDebbie on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 02:11:44 PM EST

there is nothing "inane" about all the inane troll-talk around here. we are communicating in a form with many subtle nuances that go beyond your feeble mind.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
It has given me a soapbox to stand on (3.00 / 4) (#59)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 04:39:57 PM EST

Thank you, pHatidic, for crediting my article with expanding your musical horizons. That's just the effect I hoped to achieve.

I like to write. When I get a bug up my ass about some topic, I write obsessively. It's not always healthy. I guess it would be if it weren't that getting the itch to write always came when I had some pressing work to do.

Some people enjoy keeping journals that they never show anyone, but I want others to read what I write. I hope to move the reader, whether to write better software (published under my old username) or work for political change.

Lots of people read K5, so when I'm able to publish an article here, it satisfies one of my cravings.

Publishing at K5 has made me a vastly better writer. It's not just that others at K5 have taught me anything specific (although many have), it's that writing for publication here has motivated me to work my hardest to write my best. Whenever I write an article I really care about, I won't be satisfied with anything less than front page, so I strive for perfection.

Writing for K5 has helped me to confront one of my personal demons and help many others as well.


-- Could you use my embedded systems development services?


Yes... (none / 0) (#62)
by 123456789 on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:02:55 PM EST

... similarly to how a new brand of toilet paper changes my life.

I.e. Stop thinking so g-d-mn much and do something.

---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
Stop thinking so g-d-mn much (none / 0) (#75)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:04:33 PM EST

Odd, that's what my mom always told me, only she didn't abbreviate the "God Damn" she just said it.

Or maybe that was my Dad... I was ten before I knew my first name wasn't "Godamit"

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

lol n/t (none / 0) (#156)
by 123456789 on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 03:42:30 PM EST



---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
[ Parent ]
Toilet paper (none / 0) (#107)
by edo on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:52:54 AM EST

> similarly to how a new brand of toilet paper
> changes my life.

Hm. Evidently you've never got stuck with horrible toilet paper.

"My finger went through and I'm bleeding!"

*shudder*

Nothing but velvety-soft, triple-layered Edet (that's Andrex to some of you) for me!
-- 
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
 - Oscar Wilde
[ Parent ]

Good point! n/t (none / 0) (#157)
by 123456789 on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 03:42:49 PM EST



---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
[ Parent ]
K5 made me fail my classes. (3.00 / 7) (#63)
by handslikesnakes on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:05:33 PM EST

And get kicked out of my university after only one year.
Well, to be fair it was mostly the always-on broadband that did it, but this site certainly helped.

isn't it better to ask (3.00 / 10) (#67)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 05:37:56 PM EST

how have you changed kuro5hin's life?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Thanks man! You rule! NT! (none / 2) (#74)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:02:18 PM EST


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

+3 (none / 1) (#78)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:07:19 PM EST

Great comment!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
K5 (preemptively) *SAVED* my life. (3.00 / 5) (#69)
by awgsilyari on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 06:39:17 PM EST

Last year's article How to quit smoking cigarettes was the last straw for my nicotine addiction.

I had tried many times before. I know that I'm not "really quit" because I could, in theory, pick up a pack and light one up as soon as I submit this post. And I have to admit, I did not follow the advice in the article. I used my own methods, but the article was the prime motivation.

I was simply sick of smelling and feeling like ass all the time.

Oh, and in the first few weeks of quitting, I was in a terrible mood. I used this aggression against my mother, and lobbied quite insistently that she should quit as well. Last year, in September, she finally quit, too.

Now, we both realize that we don't have a free ticket out of lung cancer, we're still at risk given our bad behaviors for so many years, but I really do think it's possible that Kuro5hin literally saved my and my mother's lives.

THANK YOU, mcgrew, and thanks to K5.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com

Wow! (3.00 / 3) (#72)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:01:11 PM EST

Thanks man, your words are gold to me!

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

Indeed (none / 0) (#146)
by marksetzer on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 12:14:35 PM EST

I'd like to echo your sentiments - that article was wonderful and provided the type of insight for smoking issues I only struggled to explain to my girlfriend and family. The line:

Another dangerous pitfall is the fact that since you can't smoke inside most public buildings, you will smell the smoke as you go in or come out. Imagine a cocaine addict trying to quit if there was a cloud of cocaine floating around the entrance to every building!

...is absolute gold. I admit I didn't quit permanently after reading that article - it took several attempts before I was finally successful - but it was absolutely the most helpful, encouraging piece of wisdom I've ever unearthed, on this site or elsewhere.

Thanks, Dan!

If a smoking ban will actually cause Houston to fold up and disappear, then I'm all for it. -rusty
[ Parent ]

I used it for therapy (3.00 / 4) (#80)
by mcgrew on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:15:00 PM EST

I found K5 right after the whore left my kids and me for another man. You can see the sordid details at my old gaming site if you hunt hard enough in the archives; it was like a blagh w/o blaghing software.

At any rate, writing here has helped get and keep me out of the resulting funk of having her leave, having my van break, having my van get reposessed, buying a car and having it burn to the ground, and having my house foreclosed.

I've barely been sane. K5 has helped keep me semi-sane.


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie

I now roast my own coffee (3.00 / 4) (#88)
by frankwork on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 07:40:10 PM EST

As described here. It puts to shame pretty much any commercially roasted coffee I've tried. Home roasting is marginally cheaper, and the unroasted beans last pretty much forever, meaning you can buy them once or twice a year and roast a weeks' supply in about 10 minutes.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

How K5 has changed my life (none / 1) (#92)
by driph on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:05:52 PM EST

I probably wouldn't be working for the company I'm with now were it not for the site. While the work we put in as admins is volunteer, being able to say I've designed the look of and helped administer a site with over 50k+ users for over 4 years is a nice bolster to the portfolio. Job A leads to Job B and so on. So K5 indirectly pays.

I've met a lot of good people online and off thanks to K5, and made some great contacts.

As a result of one of the best articles to scroll down the front page, I, along with many others, learned to play Go.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave

Not much, really. (3.00 / 4) (#95)
by theantix on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 08:55:32 PM EST

Well okay, unless you count meeting my fiancee here on K5.  Aside from that, not much.  Well, I guess I did travel across Canada and the US, sleeping mostly on the couches of people I met on K5.  Oh, and I just got back from Australia after visiting a friend I met off K5.  But aside from that, not really much at all.

--
You sir, are worse than Hitler!
Well that (3.00 / 4) (#97)
by Joh3n on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 10:12:43 PM EST

and you stole my wallet......AND MY HEART <sniff>
---------------------------------
You can learn a lot about someone by popping in their un-rewound pr0n tape and seeing where exactly they came. [ Parent ]
Sorta... (none / 3) (#96)
by waxmop on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:14:23 PM EST

This site was a huge step forward over wasting hours on slashdot. The game of the queue got me to write a few articles I'm happy with, mainly the one about how IRS e-file is a scam. The one about Reaganomics attracted some random hate mail into my account because it was for a very brief moment google's top search for supply side economics. When I had a shitty job for about seven months, this site was what kept me busy. Now I hit this site two or three times a week, read a few top stories, and then leave. If I feel like wasting time online now, I usually contribute to wikibooks instead.

I've met a few k5ers in real life, and that's been fun, but it seems like people are less forthcoming these days. There used to be some really good stories in the diary section, but now it's got the vibe of a junior high locker room.
--
The threat of losing all of your shiny possessions is what keeps us slaves to the machine. --

A very brief moment? (none / 2) (#101)
by rusty on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:41:17 PM EST

It's still number two. It was number one for several months.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
You're just bragging. (none / 2) (#110)
by waxmop on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 08:57:19 AM EST

You're just bragging you've got some kind of science-fiction Google mind control device here. How long until this power corrupts you and you start demanding ransoms from the Earth, or you'll use k5's Google-hypnotizing powers to send all searches for everything to Baldrson's diaries? That CMF cash was spent building your island fortress and hiring mercenaries, wasn't it? ;)
--
The threat of losing all of your shiny possessions is what keeps us slaves to the machine. --Parent ]
In other Google news (none / 0) (#160)
by localroger on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:28:23 PM EST

If you do a search for "ronald reagan" hovering around 38-40 on the third or fourth result page is my recent Ballard MLP. Considering the sheer volume of mainstream media crap written about Saint Ronnie I consider this just awesome.

What will people of the future think of us? Will they say, as Roger Williams said of some of the Massachusetts Indians, that we were wolves with the min
[ Parent ]
Even better (none / 0) (#163)
by rusty on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:37:49 PM EST

You're result number 25 for (I kid you not) "fuck". It was on the first page for a while. Result 40 for Ronald Reagan? Meh. But result 25 for Fuck? Now that is just fucking awesome. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Also (none / 1) (#164)
by rusty on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:39:16 PM EST

You're result number one for "fuck ronald reagan", which, all things considered, wins.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
wow (none / 0) (#187)
by localroger on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 04:49:13 PM EST

I hadn't even thought to try those. I'm feeling lucky :-)

What will people of the future think of us? Will they say, as Roger Williams said of some of the Massachusetts Indians, that we were wolves with the min
[ Parent ]
I took a Mass Communications course (2.50 / 4) (#100)
by Professional Student on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 11:24:17 PM EST

It was a bird course.  But I had to write a journal every day about something I've seen in the media, and what my feelings were on it.  It was worth 30%.

Just one slight problem - I never wrote any entries.

So the night before the journal was due, I went through the Kuro5hin archives.  I looked for any article that could be considered news, noted the date, followed the links to "real" media sources, and made my entries.

I got 93% in that course.  This wasn't even mathematically possible, because I lost more than 7% overall on other assignments.  The professor must have loved my journal.  But then again, I think she liked my faux-liberal stylings.  She wanted to go to Berkeley and was what can only be described as post-hippy.

Anyways, thank God for the Kuro5hin archives.  They saved my ass.


I learned how to (none / 2) (#102)
by lwhalen on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 12:20:39 AM EST

skydive from reading this site. I think it was a year or two ago, some guy (can't find the story ATM) posted a HOWTO on Tandem skydiving. Intrigued, I went out for a tandem that weekend, and loved every second of it. I haven't gotten my license yet, but I do tandems whenever I get the spare cash (a couple times each summer, once each school year). Thank you k5, for showing me the benefits of leaping out of a perfectly good airplane!

I read a story.. (none / 3) (#104)
by StephenThompson on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:45:14 AM EST

I found a link to the best internet story I've seen yet, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect

Well (none / 1) (#106)
by l3nz on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:18:30 AM EST

Taught me the joys of ramen, the joys of Scheme and got a number of K5'ers to join our Blogs and diaries circuit. And read localrogers's fiction, and that's great.

Popk ToDo lists - yet another web-based ToDo list manager. 100% AJAX free :-)

how k5 changed my life. (none / 3) (#108)
by the77x42 on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:59:04 AM EST

i now have unconfirmed knowledge that most people out there are stupid. i also have a desire to go to england and see all you crazy brits. not that you are the stupid ones. just crazy. it's the trolls that are stupid. stupid like a fox.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

Critical Thinking and Skepticism (3.00 / 6) (#111)
by Arkaein on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 12:24:04 PM EST

I think that the wide varieties of opionions and cited sources on K5 has improved my abilities to critically analyze arguments. I'm more skeptical of what I read or hear, either online or in the real world than I used to be.

I also look for more diversified sources of news and information nowadays. I don't like the fact that an ostensibly unbiased individual or agency might be influencing my views thorugh outright deceit, or more likely lies through omission or simply incomplete information, so I'm a lot more likely to seek out independent confirmation, especially concerning politically charged subjects.

----
The ultimate plays for Madden 2004

Its given me the impuls 2 rate all articles I read (none / 2) (#152)
by jongleur on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:19:48 PM EST

and I feel subconsciously like the author's abusing his power or is a propagandist by not allowing feedback. K5 has corrupted us, in a good way.

--
"If you can't imagine a better way let silence bury you" - Midnight Oil
[ Parent ]
Ha! (none / 1) (#165)
by rusty on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:44:46 PM EST

I feel like that too. I've been slowly driven to avoid sources that don't allow feedback, because of the inevitable frustration they cause.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
You've stopped reading books?!? (nt) (none / 0) (#181)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 10:36:05 AM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Hardly (none / 1) (#182)
by rusty on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 11:11:18 AM EST

I should have specified "sources of news online." It doesn't seem to apply to books or TV so much. Although TV news does sort of provoke the same reaction. I mostly just watch the Daily Show, because Jon tends to say the things I wanted to say.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Not changed... (3.00 / 4) (#112)
by Cruel Elevator on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 12:59:53 PM EST

...but did have an effect. English is not my first language and I get to write in it very little. I was losing my writing skills and K5 certainly helped. Getting articles posted did quite a bit to improve my confidence and I ended up writing more. Of course, got to know a lot about politics and culture.

K5 was also the source of some very weird and funny comments. You just don't get this stuff in print. Here, I'll give some examples:

  • baal, predicting what would happen in 2004: "The sky will turn black. George Bush will reveal that he is really a robot. The machines will take over. We all will die."
  • godix, about some sci-fi story on queue: "you're as wrong as a blind man in a whorehouse who thinks it's a fresh fish store."
  • trasg0, on qualifications of teachers: "WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES WE WILL MAKE SAUSAGES OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ENTRAILS."
  • mrgoat, commenting about a user: "He is still a virgin, despite managing to gather 55 gallons of goat semen, which he had to dispose of in the woods before the authorities came."
  • revscat, describing himself: "Every day I wear a strap on dildo and hang out in front of homeschooling stores, yelling obscenities and throwing copies of "The Origin of Species" at unsuspecting children."
  • some user I can't remember, on women / relationships: "It's the tragedy they want. They want to remember that they experienced love before they married the cold, soi-distant slab of meat lying next to them in bed. It gives them the emotional strength they need to bear his children in silent, secret hatred."

K5 rules!



There is no place like K5 (2.77 / 9) (#113)
by mikepence on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:50:25 PM EST

K5 has given me a home on the web, dysfunctional family and all.

I would love to wrap the following in prose, but the demands of work are pressing. Here are the bullet points (in no particular order):

On reflection, I would have to say that this site has been very valuable to me. Sure, it is no substitute for having a supportive community in the Real World, but as far as providing a very real community in the digital world, it can't be beat.

an old article by me you might not have read (none / 1) (#120)
by llimllib on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:31:45 PM EST

is here.

Peace.
[ Parent ]
Damn. (none / 3) (#126)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 05:20:28 PM EST

I'm sorry to hear of that abuse. :(

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
The Trolling Worldview (3.00 / 7) (#117)
by gmol on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 03:36:42 PM EST

K5 has cumulatively proivded me with the most detailed deconstruction of The Trolling Worldview.

Everything is trolling to me now.  Speeches from world leaders, sales pitches, art and science.

I thank K5 for this wonderful gift.

I've lost respect for most academics. (3.00 / 4) (#129)
by waxmop on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 09:59:49 PM EST

Take most philosophers for example. That's clearly just a big ol' troll-based ecology system there. It's all just word chess. The same thing goes for most social science and liberal arts in general. They've long since forgotten what the point of the discussion was, but everyone wants to get in the last word.
--
The threat of losing all of your shiny possessions is what keeps us slaves to the machine. --Parent ]
i assume you have a degree in the liberal arts (none / 3) (#138)
by rmg on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:04:51 AM EST

or some sort of humanity such that you can actually read and understand the works of the academics you malign.

what? you don't? you mean... you're just going from your everyman bullshit stereotypes about academia? and you even went ahead and posted it anyway?

well i'll be damned.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

Oh, but wait, I do! (3.00 / 3) (#141)
by waxmop on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 08:58:16 AM EST

We haven't all spent our lives at the downtown library internet terminals.
--
The threat of losing all of your shiny possessions is what keeps us slaves to the machine. --Parent ]
It's all just word chess. (none / 1) (#166)
by mcgrew on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 07:05:00 PM EST

You almost made me change my sig

"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

K5 and me (3.00 / 4) (#118)
by ana on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:06:03 PM EST

It gave me a place to play with my identity issues in relative safety.

I met a lot of really interesting people here, and also had it underscored that not everybody is interesting or worth spending time with. But I've learned to trust some people, met many of them (a few dozen) in person, and traveled to meet some of them.

Both of which set me on a life course that allowed me to recognize and connect with the love of my life when I met hir (on another site).

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

So that's what happened to you (none / 2) (#124)
by trhurler on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 05:13:52 PM EST

By the way, why do people(not just gender identity folks like yourself, but people at large,) deliberately invent ways to make themselves as different-seeming from others as possible? Do they(you) not understand that this elevates what might have been seen as just an individual quirk to the percieved status of some sort of mental affliction? For example:

Given the historical usage of "him" and "her," you could, in your position, do two things. One, you could make up some new term(hir?) which, to anyone who isn't of your particular mindset, is going to be even worse than pretentious: it just sounds silly, even if there is a good reason for it. There is no worse mistake when trying to be accepted than making yourself look silly, you know. And two, you could just accept that when people say "him" and "her," they're referring to a biological feature, and that you do in fact possess that feature. They don't care whether you think like most other people who possess that feature. They don't care whether you want to have sex with people desired by most people with that feature. They're categorizing by one thing only: a chromosome and its biological consequences. And that's all they care about, by and large. They want comfort - they want to be able to look at you, and decide how to refer to you in a mutually comprehensible, socially acceptable manner. Denying them this will make many of them angry. Is your ground for such denial so strong that it outweighs the need for easy social interaction? Is being somewhat poorly understood worse than being shunned? I don't understand at all, I must admit.

You, of course, will say that people have a problem with who you actually are. And to be fair, some people do. But, they're not going to have any less problem with you just because you alienate most of the population with strange terms that don't even mean the same thing from place to place, making it impossible to have a conversation with/about you without screwing things up and offending someone, looking like an idiot, or both. On the other hand, lots of people who otherwise would just smile and think to themselves, "hey, to each his own," are NOT going to say "to each hir own." Instead, they're going to be mad at you. They likely won't understand why, and they'll chide themselves for being irrational, but they're NOT irrational. The fact is, you're causing them major inconvenience for essentially no purpose.

But, it is good to hear that you're still around, and that you found someone you click with. I hope things continue to go well for you. I am serious, though, about one thing: if you can explain to me why people go to such pains to make their differences annoying to those who do not know them(and this is a -widespread- social phenomenon - if you haven't thought about it, you might find that interesting,) I'd love to hear it. I really do not get it.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
Uh-huh (none / 1) (#131)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 11:40:28 PM EST

I read your comment. "They want comfort - they want to be able to look at you, and decide how to refer to you in a mutually comprehensible, socially acceptable manner. Denying them this will make many of them angry." and I read "They want to stereotype someone and put you into a little box so they can feel comfortable. After all, it's more important for society to feel comfortable than to accept someone for what they are."

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
oh for god's sake! (3.00 / 6) (#137)
by rmg on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:01:07 AM EST

trhurler is obviously an idiot for bringing this up, but for god's sake, do you have to come up with exactly the wrong reason to call him stupid?

the use of the word "hir" is what's at issue here, not some broader gender matter -- trhurler never disputes the validity of whatever the hell ana's deal is. he makes a very simple point that the word "hir" alienates others because it challenges the foundation of communication -- the language -- in such a fundamental way that people are no longer sure what they can and cannot say. this is not about stereotypes at all, you bloody idiot, it's about communication and artificial barriers to it created by such radical neologisms.

i suppose you might be so silly as to believe that masculinity and feminity are themselves stereotypes, but this would ignore the breadth of the modern conception of these things.

it's amazing how similar reading this site is to watching the three stooges. two idiots turn a corner, knock heads, one pokes the other in the eye, etc.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

Funny. (none / 1) (#140)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 08:02:25 AM EST

Your reply makes you the third stooge!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
way to go, nerd. (none / 1) (#142)
by rmg on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 09:09:45 AM EST

you've made exactly the response i planned for you.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

I did? (none / 1) (#143)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 09:22:52 AM EST

Oh goodie!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
nyah nyah nyah OW!!! (none / 0) (#167)
by mcgrew on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 07:11:07 PM EST


"The entire neocon movement is dedicated to revoking mcgrew's posting priviliges. This is why we went to war with Iraq." -LilDebbie
[ Parent ]

DIABOLICAL! (none / 2) (#205)
by kitten on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 09:53:44 PM EST

What nefarious trickery will rmg come up with next, using his subtle manipulations to force others to do his bidding? Only the Shadow knows!
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
It is to laugh (none / 0) (#192)
by johnny on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 09:50:39 PM EST

he makes a very simple point that the word "hir" alienates others because it challenges the foundation of communication -- the language -- in such a fundamental way that people are no longer sure what they can and cannot say.

Now that is funny.

trhurler is obviously an idiot for bringing this up

Lookee-here! Something upon which we can agree!

As for me, whilst I respect trhurler's brain, tenacity, facility with words and so on and so forth etcetera etcetera etcetera, still, I find it so hard to agree with hir on just about anything!

yr frn,
jrs
Get your free download of prizewinning novels Acts of the Apostles and Che
[ Parent ]

Hey idiot (2.40 / 5) (#158)
by trhurler on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:18:48 PM EST

First of all, while I realize your high school teachers would smack me around verbally for saying so(or rather, would try, and then act shocked when I hit back,) EVERYONE stereotypes people, every day, all the time, as a matter of course. Unless you know someone VERY, very well, you have no choice. You need a way to interact with him, and you don't know him that well. Your only hope is to fit him to a pattern, hope that it is close enough, and go with that, and it is what people do. The mechanism is strikingly similar to that used in pattern recognition in various technological applications. Stereotyping only becomes a problem in certain cases. Particularly in cases where the patterns are nonsensical AND in which they are used to justify a negative reaction towards people, or in cases in which the patterns are applied to people for whom enough data exists to make individual judgements(these two categories encompass all of "racism," "sexism," and so on.)

Second, as rmg was kind enough to point out(and by the way, rmg, I'm an asshole, not an idiot - there's a difference:), I'm talking about communications. You walk into a room. Here's someone you don't know, with a friend, whom you know casually. Both males. You say hi. Your friend says "Have you met Sam?" You say "Never met him." Now you're an asshole. Does that sound reasonable to you? No? Then shut the fuck up.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
I love you man. (nt) (none / 0) (#174)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 11:31:05 PM EST



---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Back... (none / 0) (#151)
by ana on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:01:38 PM EST

into the closet with you, don't do or say anything the cisgendered straightfucking male [white, establishment] folks won't like, or they might beat you up and kill you.

Dang, where's that fire hose when they need it?

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

Firehose? (none / 0) (#159)
by trhurler on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:21:53 PM EST

Kill someone? Are you deliberately ignoring my point, or are you just so easily offended that you can't see it?

See my reply to that ta bu what's-his-name below if you really don't see my point.

And by the way, I'm right.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
i'm not going away (none / 0) (#161)
by ana on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:34:17 PM EST

and all your wishing i'd fit one of your smallminded boxes isn't gonna make it so.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

in the interest of mediating sensible discussion, (none / 1) (#175)
by rmg on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 12:22:23 AM EST

i'll remind you that he is asking why you don't just use the usual gendered pronouns for the benefit of nearly everyone you encounter (probably not a fair question since you probably do use them in in physical conversation).

also, i'd be interested to know why you don't come up with a pronoun that does not conflict with the phonetics of another (i can only assume "hir" is pronouns almost the same way "her" is). i suspect the reason is that it's something that evolved in written language (probably online) and no one actually has the ... whatever it takes ... to use it in real speech, but i'm just speculating...

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

what an odd spelling error... (none / 0) (#176)
by rmg on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 12:23:25 AM EST

of course, i mean "pronounced" not "pronouns" in the parenthetical.

_____

if i do not respond, it is because you wrote nothing worthy of response.

dave dean[ Parent ]

Interesting question. (none / 0) (#180)
by ana on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 10:10:26 AM EST

I'm told some languages like Georgian (and perhaps Finnish and Hungarian) don't have gendered 3rd person pronouns. So the hunt for a suitable ungendered 3rd person personal pronoun is on. "hir" is pretty good in a text-only environment like this one (where, face it, almost nobody needs to know anybody's gender at all). Doesn't work so well in spoken English, as you say. If forced to pronounce it, I think I'd say something like "here". But the fun is that it's a plausible single-letter substitution for "his", "him" or "her".

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

lots of languages lack gendered pronouns (none / 0) (#186)
by Battle Troll on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 04:40:27 PM EST

Because they lack grammatical gender. So what? Are you saying that Georgians, of all people, are somehow thereby less sexist than anglophones?
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]
Not a-tall. (none / 0) (#188)
by ana on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 05:06:17 PM EST

English also (mostly) lacks grammatical gender. I'm suggesting we mug them in a dark alley and steal their pocket lint, like we've done to about a hundred other languages, and start using their pronouns, since we need one that means that.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

no (none / 1) (#194)
by Battle Troll on Fri Jul 23, 2004 at 11:43:20 AM EST

English doesn't lack grammatical gender, it's simply that most English nouns are neuter. English is an IE language in the Germanic branch heavily influenced by French; have a look at gendered nouns in modern French and German. Finnish lacks the concept of grammatical gender at all and thus the distinction between masculine and feminine pronouns. It's like comparing apples and eggs.

Put it this way. Chinese lacks grammatical gender, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to enforce sexual conformity beyond gendered pronouns. Don't be a liberalist and confuse language with actions, please.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]

This is a website. (none / 0) (#196)
by ana on Fri Jul 23, 2004 at 01:33:03 PM EST

Language is action; action is language.

And no, English has no grammatical gender, except vestigially in the 3rd person singular pronouns. There are zero adjectives that decline, zero nouns that decline. Participles are the same, regardless of the gender of the subject.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

heh (none / 1) (#202)
by Battle Troll on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 11:47:09 AM EST

And no, English has no grammatical gender, except vestigially in the 3rd person singular pronouns.

Thank you for admitting that English has vestigial grammatical gender. I am glad to see that you appreciate my point, that gendered pronouns are a fundamental part of the English language.

Language is action; action is language.

This is only trivially true. I invite you to demonstrate any correlation whatsoever between sexism in a population and grammatical gender in its common language. I notice that you have ignored my counterexamples of Georgian (!) and Chinese (!!).
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
[ Parent ]

Not quite. (none / 0) (#203)
by komet on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 07:28:46 PM EST

The number of adjectives that decline is not zero, it's one: blond/blonde.

YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME.
[ Parent ]

I didn't say "go away," because... (none / 2) (#189)
by trhurler on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 05:16:21 PM EST

I don't want you to go away. I don't have anything against you as a person, and I've tried hard to make that clear, but you apparently won't allow for the idea that a person might actually even LIKE you while at the same time being critical of some one thing - in this case, a WORD of all things.

I would not suggest that you need to BE like everyone else. I would not suggest that you need to pretend to be for anyone's benefit. What I am suggesting is that you have made a mistake. That you have misunderstood the purpose of the gendered pronoun. It exists mainly so that the listener can discern one piece of information that he would not otherwise be able with certainty to determine in a conversation about someone he doesn't know: biological sex. It does not connote sexual orientation, personal feelings about one's gender, or anything of that nature, and there is not enough contextual information to communicate that or to allow it to be inferred with any reliability.

You keep calling me small minded, and yet you insist that I'm a cardboard cutout critic of your gender business. Frankly, I could care less about it, although I am curious to understand it better in the same way that I'm curious to understand just about everything I don't know much about. When are YOU going to quit being small minded and accept that I'm NOT this stereotype flamingly straight insecure asshole you WANT me to be?

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
Need to know. (none / 0) (#210)
by ana on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 11:20:33 AM EST

I don't understand why anybody needs to know anybody else's sex on a forum like the present one, unless perhaps the parties in question are considering meeting in person for sex.

So that one bit of information is precisely what I'm trying to deny access to, for all except the one person who needs to know. Perhaps, as you say, this is a mistake, but it does tend to make the point that there are people who prefer to keep such information private, or for whom releasing such information has perhaps more emotional content than for most people.

And if you'd behave somewhat less like a cardboard asshole cutout, I'd be more inclined to respect your opinions.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

Oh, and... (none / 0) (#162)
by ana on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 05:36:36 PM EST

the firehose I was alluding to was the one used to hose down the civil rights march in Selma, Alabama in 1968 or so.

Years go by; will I still be waiting
for somebody else to understand?
--Tori Amos

[ Parent ]

Um (3.00 / 2) (#206)
by mcc on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 01:14:05 AM EST

While I generally agree with you for the case of people who try to force the use of "gender neutral" language on others, Ana's use of "hir" here is neither hurting nor imposing on anyone at all and thus totally reasonable.

[ Parent ]
Changed my life? Naw. New habits? Maybe (none / 1) (#119)
by unDees on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:07:29 PM EST

I wouldn't say it changed my life, but k5 did give me an excuse to roast my own coffee, learn to program in Ruby, and take occasional time to sit down and shut the hell up.

Oh, and the Spin Internet Black Beans are fantastic. Make 'em at least once a month. Wife loves 'em.

Your account balance is $0.02; to continue receiving our quality opinions, please remit payment as soon as possible.

I just posted this below (none / 3) (#121)
by llimllib on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:39:18 PM EST

But I thought I'd post it in a top-level comment. Over a year ago, I wrote an article called k5ism which generated a lot of controversy (it took 420 more votes to pass than your article did). Although I don't agree with a lot of what I wrote back then, it relates directly to what you're asking k5.

Peace.
kuro5hin broke my heart (none / 1) (#122)
by enthalpyX on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 04:45:15 PM EST

Learning that <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2004/3/4/3157/15548/100#100">Daniel Quinn is a fraud</a>.

That made my night! (none / 1) (#171)
by waxmop on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 09:45:02 PM EST

link
--
The threat of losing all of your shiny possessions is what keeps us slaves to the machine. --Parent ]
Delighted :) |nt (none / 1) (#200)
by enthalpyX on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 02:11:15 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Changed my life? No. (none / 1) (#127)
by jabber on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 05:56:40 PM EST

But it, and this article, have given me a much greater appreciation for the sport, the art, and the science that is navel-gazing.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Esperanto (none / 1) (#139)
by spung on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 06:11:42 AM EST

K5 made me learn Esperanto.

Saluton... (none / 0) (#211)
by Vesperto on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 11:31:06 PM EST

...ĉu vi ankorau aktivas tie ĉi? Mi nur kontrolas la Fikcian Sekcion lastatempe. Kernumu, mi volas traduki la servilon :)

Ĝis, bonfartu fuŝagu!
_____________________________
If you disagree post, don't moderate.
Not a Premium User.
[ Parent ]

How-to's are great, rest sucks (3.00 / 5) (#144)
by ant0n on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 10:34:15 AM EST

Like Cruel Elevator, my main motivation to read k5 and to sometimes write (mostly comments) for it is the fact that English is not my first language; I abuse k5 as a kind of testing grounds for my English. I would like to submit some stories, and I often start to write them, but I almost never finish. English is still a little bit to hard for me, especially when writing a whole story and not just a comment.

I had great fun reading some of the articles. The language how-to's are the ones I like most, although none of them made me learn a new language. I started learning Russian and Japanese long before I read the two articles on it here. By the way: a link to the first part of the Japanese language how-to was what brought me to k5!.

The other how-to's I know are not so interesting for me: raising chicken, brewing beer and dumpster diving are not exactly my idea of having fun.

I never read the political articles (all too US-centric) and only very seldom read diaries.

Some comments are great: 'You're a precious and unique flower caught up in and misunderstood by a big, mundane garden.' by tzc was the wittiest comment ever [see this article].

Did k5 change my life? No, but I'm having a hell of fun with it.


-- Does the shortest thing the tallest pyramid's support supports support anything green?
Patrick H. Winston, Artificial Intelligence
I learned some (none / 2) (#145)
by ana is my name on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 10:43:31 AM EST

K5 introduced me to online interacting with other humans. It started me commenting on things and stimulated my critical thinking. It also brought some worries about the "not being accepted" issue to my online life (the "being accepted" interpreted as comment ratings and diary comments).

On K5 I also tried the online diary idea and started worrying about online identity issues and the relationship of my online self with the offline one. It helped me establish my own rules of on-line behaviour.

Nothing of much consequence to you, but of some importance to me.

One important thing (none / 1) (#147)
by bob6 on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 01:02:18 PM EST

I suck less.

Cheers.
Well (none / 1) (#150)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 01:21:02 PM EST

I would say that I waste a lot of time here, but when I think about it, I would have used most of that time watching tv and playing Freecell.

I think hearing a wide variety of opinions on different matters has opened up my mind and allowed me to be even further to the left than I would have been otherwise.

Also, I learn interesting things here once in a while.  And I think I'm a better writer now.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour

anti-/. (3.00 / 3) (#154)
by vani on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 02:40:15 PM EST

I no longer have to put up with the immature masses @ /. yay!

it taught me a few things ... (3.00 / 17) (#170)
by pyramid termite on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 09:22:29 PM EST

... that many of the most intelligent people on the net use their intelligence to show it off, not to actually have a dialogue about questions and issues ... and i'm NOT talking about trolls here

... that most people who debate issues aren't really interested in learning anything

... that people who dare to be emotionally honest about their lives will be mercilessly ridiculed

... that the real effect of trolls isn't what they do, but how people react to them

... that trolls and people with closed minds are interchangable, except that the trolls have a better sense of humor

... that upper middle class software types have little idea how the lower half live

... that intellect is vastly overrated as a means of solving the world's problems

... that if the quality of an online community is lacking it's everyone's fault

... that it's better to find one person you can talk to on a real level then hundreds you can't

that's why you haven't seen me around here much ... i found someone i could talk to


On the Internet, anyone can accuse you of being a dog.

Well said (none / 1) (#183)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 12:26:16 PM EST

But, I mildly disagree with you on two points

that if the quality of an online community is lacking it's everyone's fault

I disagree. While it takes everyone involved to build a community, it only takes a few people to tear it down.

that it's better to find one person you can talk to on a real level then hundreds you can't

If no one ever challenges your beliefs or expectations, you'll never grow.

Now where did I put that clue? I know I had one just a minute ago!
[ Parent ]

part of talking on a real level ... (none / 2) (#190)
by pyramid termite on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 06:41:33 PM EST

... is that the people who do it are willing to challenge each other on things like beliefs and expectations and take challenges like that seriously with a willingness to change ...


On the Internet, anyone can accuse you of being a dog.
[ Parent ]

real discussions (none / 0) (#197)
by iGrrrl on Fri Jul 23, 2004 at 01:44:52 PM EST

I liked your list, but disagree with the idea that trolls only become a problem based upon how people react to them. They do disrupt conversations, dirty the landscape, and waste people's time. I said that I stopped commenting because, in general, the userbase was large enough that someone would have already written the point I would have made. That was only half true. I also became heartily sick of answering straight-faced trolls (a opposed to the graffitti, potty-mouth type) when I became aware that I was simply being trolled. I come from academic, experimental science, where such behavior is considered puerile at best. See my .sig.

--
You cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone who regards other people as toys to be played with. localroger
remove apostrophe for email.
[ Parent ]

your sig - my version inspired by localroger (none / 0) (#201)
by mami on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 03:54:09 AM EST

"You cannot have a reasonable government with someone who regards his people as toys to be played with and thrown around."

[ Parent ]
the reasons why how people react to trolls ... (none / 0) (#204)
by pyramid termite on Sat Jul 24, 2004 at 07:58:05 PM EST

... is a problem are this

... you can't really win an argument on the net ... and most of the responses to trolls tend to be attempts to win arguments ... trolls know this and count on it

... the way people react to trolls inevitably spills over into how they react against other people whose opinions they don't like ... once the anti-trollers get angry and intolerant they start acting that way toward a lot of people, not just trolls

... inevitably, more time and bandwidth is used up by those who complain and plot against the trolls than the trolls themselves

... people with dissenting viewpoints or weak reasoning or arguing skills inevitably end up being classified as trolls themselves, when they're either just unusual or weak ... needless to say, being identified as a troll when they believe what they're saying will produce a flame war

... i've seen these things happen too many times ... and these are all things that forthright posters control, not trolls ... trolls take advantage of this ruthlessly

... the solution? don't waste your time talking with people who don't strike you as sincere and don't try to win arguments unless you know you're dealing with a reasonable person who's willing to change their mind

... or ... have fun and counter-troll the trolls ... it's not too hard to trip up contrary people into contradicting themselves


On the Internet, anyone can accuse you of being a dog.
[ Parent ]

I don't mind sincere bad arguers. (none / 0) (#209)
by iGrrrl on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 02:33:45 PM EST

I dislike those insincere mis-statements or straw man trolls. In general I get your point, but: or ... have fun and counter-troll the troll

No thanks. It wouldn't be fun for me. That's a sink for time I'd rather spend elsewhere.


--
You cannot have a reasonable conversation with someone who regards other people as toys to be played with. localroger
remove apostrophe for email.
[ Parent ]

yes, it changed my life - it made me fat - (none / 3) (#172)
by mami on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 11:14:36 PM EST

because it made me addicted, made me see trolls everywhere, so much so, that I see them in my dreams creep out of under my bed. They pull my toes, which makes me giggle so strongly that I end up to be completely helpless til I suffocate in horror over all that meanness. I wake up out of the nightmare to have read all those troll's comments and need to eat something sweet to fight my K5 caused depressions.

Then I go to dailykos, it's great, it makes me lose weight. :-)

Argh (none / 1) (#185)
by GenerationY on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 01:16:19 PM EST

Changed my life? Not really, although this is the first discussion site I've ever come back to for some reason.

It has been useful though as its given me a chance to try out ideas and arguments which is a hard thing to find otherwise. I wouldn't dream of shooting my mouth off at work and its the nature of things that our friends will tend to agree with our prejudices anyway.

My regret with regard to this is that I've used the same account throughout so I have some difficulty now when I want to be sincere. Also I've embarrassed myself on numerous occasions through my own ignorance when taking ill-formed and ill-researched thoughts for a spin round the block. I should probably have worked with two accounts and been more fastidious with quality control in my main one. But thats my problem.

More positively Kuro5hin has given me a series of interesting insights into the rest of the world, particularly America and Canada. Everything from the texture of everyday life through to the big  political and social issues. I would never have picked up the nuances and detail from the media alone.

Oh and finally, I have discovered that the easiest people to troll are always, absolutely always, the self-confessed trolls themselves. Pretty much validates what they used to say about bullies at school.

Anyway, thats the end of this little love letter to Kuro5hin.

Personally (2.40 / 5) (#191)
by osm on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 08:22:55 PM EST

I just LOVE kuro5hin! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!

Of course, don't forget to read the diaries! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?

In short, if you haven't checked out kuro5hin, you don't know what you're missing!

--------
4thelulz.org

Kuro5hin has made me (none / 1) (#193)
by johnny on Thu Jul 22, 2004 at 10:01:48 PM EST

considerably more bald. Since first coming to this site more than four years ago I have lost just about all the hair on the top of my head. This is actually distressing, but not as much as it would have been if it had happened when I was a younger man and not the self-satisfied old fart that I have become.

Kuro5hin has been the source of a very potent recipe for kapusta. Also through this site I have met some very interesting people -- some virtual, some actual, and some evidently resident in my own noodle, chief among whom is Cortez the Killer, and I've had just about enough from you Mr. Smartypants. I mean really.

Kuro5hin has taught me how to have sex with a kangaroo -- no wait, that was another site. . . um. . . no, that's a falsehood.

Kuro5hin has shown to me the true depths of my procrastinatory nature.

Mainly it's been a cool place to hang out when I had to be away from my family, either on the road or mainly/mostly in my dumpy little room in Somerville. But now I work from home and no longer need my dumpy little room in Somerville, and I oddly miss it. . .

Finally I would like to say if y'all would only be so kind as to buy a few more dozen copies of my famous novels, I will finally have enough money to get them teeth fixed.

yr frn,
jrs
Get your free download of prizewinning novels Acts of the Apostles and Che

For me it was... (none / 1) (#195)
by X-Nc on Fri Jul 23, 2004 at 11:45:18 AM EST

Blogging. I never kept a paper diary let alone an online one. Using the diary section was where it all started.

I'm not what you'd call a real blogger in that no one actually reads my blog but the fact that I have one at all is directly responcible to K5.

--
Aaahhhh!!!! My K5 subscription expired. Now I can't spell anymore.

For me it was... (none / 1) (#198)
by BringBackATV on Fri Jul 23, 2004 at 03:16:06 PM EST

...finding a link to Geekizoid!
--People aren't property
I grew a 5th leg (none / 1) (#207)
by anothertom on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 11:42:00 AM EST

Ha-haaa

Changed my understanding of the universe... (none / 0) (#212)
by sandycandy on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:36:46 AM EST

Few months back while browsing i came across the article on relativity theory. After reading it i just got hooked on to Physics forever. I must have gone through atleast 25-30 books on Physics (especially about theory of universe) till date in past one year. After going through all the discoveries and inventions made in the field of physics I must admit it has changed my outlook towards looking at life completely. I feel more knowledgable and happy knowing so many things now and all thanks to K5 [and of course epepke for the article] for this wonderful opening and opportunity.

K5. (none / 0) (#213)
by valeko on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 12:03:35 AM EST

K5 helped me to improve my writing methodologies and to enhance my understanding of other people's expectations with regard to my writing.

I have met at least two very good friends here with whom I still keep in regular association - infinitera and greenrd.

Discussions on K5 have contributed invaluably to the refinement and reconstitution of not only my essential worldview, but the arguments and argumentative strategies used their defence. K5 has had a very non-trivial impact on the formation of my thinking, and has certainly distinguished itself from other online communities by -- on the whole -- the eruditeness of its participants and its topics of polemic (usually).

K5 has provided some of the most interesting, informative, and thought-provoking articles I have ever read on the Internet.

It has been a very rewarding experience to participate in K5, and I very much appreciate it.

"Hey, what's sanity got going for it anyways?" -- infinitera, on matters of the heart

How Has Kuro5hin Changed Your Life? | 213 comments (208 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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