Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
Meta Request: Diary-Story crosstalk

By Cat Huggles in Meta
Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 02:23:45 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Diaries should be allowed to turn into story submissions given enough demand. Readers should be able to click 'move to edit queue' on diaries that the author has flagged to allow this. Like 'move to vote', once enough votes are accrued, the action is taken.

Also, Dead stories should always turn into diaries that can't be moved to the edit queue again. This is better than deletion, for sure!

That is all.


Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Also by Cat Huggles


Display: Sort:
Meta Request: Diary-Story crosstalk | 45 comments (37 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
The story upgrade is a lame idea (2.92 / 13) (#2)
by balsamic vinigga on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 02:19:24 PM EST

But given every asshole goes and reposts their voted down stories as diaries anyway the downgrade should definately be implemented.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
great ideas (2.91 / 12) (#3)
by army of phred on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 02:31:27 PM EST

will never be implemented.

I still like mine tho, rather than move rejected stories into diaries, I think they need their own section, "rejects", just think of the gems that section could accumulate for prosperity. I think right now folks are getting off too easy in having their rejects hidden from ridicule.

"Republicans are evil." lildebbie
"I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about." motormachinemercenary
"my wife is getting a blowjob" ghostoft1ber

prosperity -> posterity [nt] (3.00 / 2) (#23)
by Patrick Bateman on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:09:18 PM EST


---
I have to return some videotapes.
[ Parent ]

You didn't understand him (none / 0) (#44)
by QuickFox on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:30:46 PM EST

Read his comment again. He's talking about gems.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.<
[ Parent ]
The Hulver site has the first option (3.00 / 9) (#5)
by Adam Rightmann on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 02:59:09 PM EST

which is probably why it's dying.

Hulver site is dying (3.00 / 2) (#28)
by Earwig Nose Picker on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 12:06:28 AM EST

because Orion Blastar is there. He is known for killing online communities. He almost killed K5, until he was anonymized.

[ Parent ]
I have a Meta story coming up... (1.83 / 6) (#6)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 02:59:18 PM EST

... but not the time to work on it today.

So like the Cheshire Cat, I will disappear, leaving you nothing but my smile:

:-)


--

Live your fucking life. Sue someone on the Internet. Write a fucking music player. Like the great man Michael David Crawford has shown us all: Hard work, a strong will to stalk, and a few fries short of a happy meal goes a long way. -- bride of spidy


Huh. (2.00 / 4) (#7)
by porkchop_d_clown on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 03:03:32 PM EST

I was going to mock you a bit but, on reflection, this isn't a bad idea.

I do know the patch to vote diaries up to the front page already exists. The idea of moving dead stories to the diaries has some merit, although many stories are purged for a good reason.

How many trolls could a true troll troll if a true troll could troll trolls?

Moving dead stories (3.00 / 2) (#8)
by mtd on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 03:26:48 PM EST

Perhaps dead stories should only be moved if they have greather than X amount of total votes.

[ Parent ]
Often (none / 1) (#9)
by Cro Magnon on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 03:50:30 PM EST

people manually repost their crappy stories as diaries anyway, so it wouldn't make much difference.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
It loses the comments (none / 1) (#31)
by curien on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 08:39:07 AM EST

Moving the voted-down story straight to the diary would preserve the comments to that story. It would also preserve links.

Actually, I think that the author of a diary should be able to move it to the edit queue at will. The way we do it now, often folks post a diary, realize people like it, then make it a story, losing all the comments from the diary.

--
This sig is umop apisdn.
[ Parent ]

This has multiple implications (none / 1) (#11)
by jolly st nick on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 04:26:51 PM EST

I think this idea may bring into question the whole K5 model. For many people, the action is all in the edit and voting queue. By the time a story gets to the front page, they're through with it.

Granted, these are people with far too much time on their hands, but it is a significant part of the active K5 readership.

In any case I'd only add this: there is an implicit permission to post a story to the front page if it is submitted to the edit queue that is not quite there if a story is submitted as a diary. This may happen if you are editing a story perhaps and don't intend to have it ready for some weeks or longer. I'd give the author of a diary entry a choice when he creates the diary entry to allow it to become a story. This should be hidden so it doesn't affect peoples votes one way or the other.

[ Parent ]

I dunno (none / 1) (#26)
by wiredog on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:25:29 PM EST

We've been asking Rusty for a 'dump to diary' option for years. Well, some of us have. Me, anyway. Move from diary to FP? Not sure about that one. Maybe 'move to queue' would be better.

I would like to see something like The Hole here.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]

You can do it, Rusty. (2.40 / 5) (#10)
by Phssthpok on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 03:53:04 PM EST

We believe in you.
____________

affective flattening has caused me to kill 11,357 people

What's this 'we' shit white man... (2.00 / 3) (#13)
by thelizman on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 05:02:29 PM EST

...rusty can't even get searches working...
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
maybe he would... (none / 1) (#24)
by Phssthpok on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:15:00 PM EST

if you weren't so damn ungrateful
____________

affective flattening has caused me to kill 11,357 people

[ Parent ]
Ungrateful? (none / 0) (#35)
by thelizman on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 03:30:54 PM EST

I contributed to the monacle-polish/yacht fund.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
sorry, that should read... (none / 0) (#41)
by Phssthpok on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:16:06 PM EST

"if he weren't so damn ungrateful"
____________

affective flattening has caused me to kill 11,357 people

[ Parent ]
Rebuttals (none / 1) (#14)
by The Amazing Idiot on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 05:11:54 PM EST

1. Diaries should be allowed to turn into story submissions

Why? They're publically viewable from the Front Page. If somebody likes X's diary, good. They can view it from their diary page.

2. Dead stories should always turn into diaries

I can see a few things wrong with that. I can see a nice DOS attack from this by flooding the queue with worthless drivel and then having it dumped to the diaries. It eats up Rusty's HD space and cpu having to index that crap.

If anything, I would petition to Rusty a static set of webpages that would archive dumped articles with more than X posts. These dumped stories would have absolutely NO posting and no ratings of comments. All they would serve is a nice way to see possibly good stories with bad luck in the queue.

If my suggestion was put forth in place, perhaps the moderators (those *special* people here) could cull the serious troll bait from the static archive. You know, the last we need to see is about Rusty's Wife (yeah, that was just plain evil) or GNAA trolls.

Maybe it's just me (none / 1) (#21)
by The Jewish Liberal Media Conspiracy on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 09:46:22 PM EST

... but where the diaries used to be visible to the public has been replaced with the giant, obscenely ugly blogads thing. It's only shown on the front page to members. Just a nitpick.
This account has been anonymized.
[ Parent ]
Oh my goodness! (none / 0) (#45)
by QuickFox on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 08:52:57 PM EST

What a horror! I never imagined that something like that would happen to Kuro5hin. Sheesh.

But regarding the Section Stories and New Diaries boxes, I found that they're still on the page, but hidden way way waaaaay down, to the right.

What a weird solution.

Well, for the longest time new users couldn't register. With all the pressure to re-open that, I suppose the second best solution is to scare them away.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.<
[ Parent ]

That is a reasonable feature request... (3.00 / 5) (#15)
by gr3y on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 06:01:31 PM EST

with the following addition: Dead stories should always turn into diaries that can't be moved to the edit queue again, with all comments preserved. There are a lot of good comments in that dead space.

I am a disruptive technology.

oh yes, for sure (3.00 / 2) (#18)
by Cat Huggles on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 08:34:21 PM EST

Comments must be preserved in the transitions.

[ Parent ]
Why this is a bad idea ... (2.00 / 2) (#16)
by vera on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 07:23:23 PM EST

Story submissions will decline as our wise community descends toward manic diary-mongering with hopes of a more graceful passing to the front page.

Good idea. (none / 1) (#20)
by tiamat on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 09:23:34 PM EST

More content is always good.

i enthusiastically agree. (none / 0) (#27)
by the ghost of rmg on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:44:08 PM EST

more than that, i think this change should be made retroactively so that all past failed story submissions are added to the diaries of their authors. it is a trivial change to the database, after all, and it would be ever so much fun.

while most failed submissions suck, the best submissions this site has had have been rejected. what's really important, in my view, is not the average or the median, but the extremes.


rmg: comments better than yours.

It cannot be a coincidence... (none / 1) (#29)
by givemegmail111 on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 12:31:07 AM EST

...that this particular story posted by someone named "Cat Huggles" is in the queue at the same time as one proposing to end spam by killing kittens. I think we can all learn something here.

--
McDonalds: i'm lovin' it
Start your day tastefully with a Sausage, Egg & Cheese McGriddle, only at McDonalds.
Rusty fix my sig, dammit!
as has been mentioned (2.50 / 2) (#30)
by transient0 on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 04:46:26 AM EST

husi already implements the first feature (and on certain days hulver might even be nice enough to provide a patch). what secion would they go to, though? is k5 to have a "best of diaries"?

as for the second feature, there are any number of reasons why the author may not want to see their failed story become a diary. if this is going to be implemented, i think there would have to be an opportunity for the author to veto. at which point, how much harder would it be for them to just ctrl-c, ctrl-v?

---------
lysergically yours

hulver's feature doesn't really work very well. (none / 0) (#33)
by the ghost of rmg on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 09:42:21 AM EST

no one votes on diaries. i'd say this best model for this is the recommended diary system from the daily kos, which has been wildly successful. of course, they have a huge volume of diaries, which is why when they pick out the best of them, they tend to be of very high quality, either from the perspective of newsworthiness or whatever. you still get some crap, but issues of personal preference and politics account for most of that.

the best thing to do would be to throw the section stories on the front page, replace the section box with the recommended diary box (i would think rusty or captain tenille could just take the code from the daily kos), then alter the code for the queue slightly to resection stories to diaries and change the status flag appropriately.

additionally, stories should keep their original timestamp after failing to pass the queue so they don't start at the top of the diary section. this would minimize the impact of crapflooding and such.


rmg: comments better than yours.
[ Parent ]

I would prefer ... (1.25 / 4) (#32)
by Chakotay on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 08:58:59 AM EST

... to see dropped stories turn into diarrhea.

--
Linux like wigwam. No windows, no gates, Apache inside.

Let's not even talk about my pet peeve: (none / 1) (#34)
by frijolito on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 02:15:01 PM EST

Community voting on polls.

um (none / 0) (#36)
by Communist Barbie on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 05:06:06 PM EST

...because it's definitely too hard to copy and submit it yourself?
---

Stop endangering yourself.
I guess... (3.00 / 2) (#37)
by geoswan on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 05:26:21 PM EST

I guess you have never found an interesting story in the queue, posted a comment to it, made a mental note to come back later, and read the later comments, only to find that it was gone, with all the comments?

This was an interesting story. I read the first 10 comments. But what about the final 7? The author submitted some similar stories, that did make the front page. Well, I would like to be able to re-read all of them.

[ Parent ]

Clicky here (none / 0) (#38)
by GenerationY on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 08:15:06 PM EST

HERE

All comments are viewable.

[ Parent ]

Thanks (none / 1) (#43)
by geoswan on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 10:34:07 AM EST

I am unclear on how you found that, and how I would find the comments to other stories that didn't make the front page...

[ Parent ]
ugh (none / 0) (#40)
by adiffer on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 10:22:39 PM EST

If I want to submit a diary entry as a story, I'll do so.  
If I want to save a dying story submission as a diary, I'll do so.
If you want me to submit a diary as a story, you'll say so.

This sounds like potential bloat to me.
-Dream Big. --Grow Up.

Yes (none / 1) (#42)
by Morosoph on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 11:43:12 AM EST

I agree.

However, stories which received few positive votes should die. Ones that are merely contentious should live, IMO.

Reason? Spam and crapflooding.

Meta Request: Diary-Story crosstalk | 45 comments (37 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!