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[P]
Community Doesn't Scale: Why k5 Is Perpetually Dying

By LilDebbie in Meta
Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 04:28:29 AM EST
Tags: kuro5hin, group dynamics (all tags)
kuro5hin

Can't sleep. Dried sinuses are nature's way of making you suffer needlessly. You can only struggle so long before beginning to question the fundamentals. Of course, those are stupid questions, so instead you get out bed, rip music from a very old computer game, and question the nature of the online forum.

Yes, I write in a highly unnecessary narrative voice. Fuck you too.


Let us begin with definitions. What we're looking at is more than just the online forum; the community-based online forum. There's an important distinction. The other site is the quintessential online forum. Community doesn't matter there. Sure, users still jockey for Taco and Hemos' attention, but only because they control the editorial process. I think it's safe to assume no one actually likes the management there, despite Trollaxor's undying lust. On top of the ivory tower administration, the comment and article volume is too great for any single voice to carry over the wave.

Contrast this, as we like to do, or used to, with the community-moderated kuro5hin. The editorial process is an open and unruly affair, management conspicuously absent (probably off polishing monocles on the S.S. CMF), and the refresh rate on the front page reflects this. Even the Ghetto, which has no editorial process, slogs behind content factories like fark. By internets standard, we should be long dead, cremated, and cast to the four winds. Yet like Sauron in the Third Age, our spirit endures. What is the appeal? Why do we keep coming back?

There are many answers. Some enjoy the lively discussion. Others appreciate the fanatical devotion to free speech (the rest of us are registered sex offenders with nowhere else to go). The summary answer is a cop-out: community. We share a common history and, dare I say, affinity with one another forged over countless hours trolling the hell out of each other.

I've been awake for three hours and am just now getting to my point. In the meantime, I've ripped three CDs, eaten some snack cakes, tied my hair in a chonmage, and taken a ridiculous self-portrait. My middle name is Accomplishment.

Back to said point. Though places like fark possess a modicum of community in the guise of a few regular posters and binge drinking, it is the false kind plainly seen in soccer hooligans and National Socialists. That is to say, members of the faux community would be hard pressed to speak of one another with any but the most peripheral details, e.g. the moonbat Kossack, the alcoholic farker, or the copraphilic slashdotter. Sure, they'll dutifully post an obituary should one of them fail it, but the individual is completely forgotten the next day. Here we remember people who were merely banned. We actually know each other. We share our frailties and look after one another in our moments of weakness. Maybe I'm just too much of an emo fuck (it is 4AM), but I often find myself in meatspace telling a story "about my Australian friend." Or Kiwi friend. Or Finnish friend. *sniff* I LOVE YUO GUYS!!!

Faggotry aside, the point is that you're more to me, to the users of this website, than just a passing ship in the night. You're a community, and communities have limitations, the big one being effective size. Factoring largely in this constraint is the human capacity to keep track of many different people. This partition of memory varies from person to person. I happen to be the kind of guy who can identify 2/3rds of the music sampled in the Oakenfold CD I ripped a few hours ago, the floor layout of any building I've been in twice, or sufficient off-hand remarks to piece together the personal information of most of our more prolific diarists. Oddly enough, I suck at names. Anywho, as a result I can maintain several separate groups of acquaintenances. Others can only handle a few dozen individuals before they start to forget some. When combined, they form a self-correcting network of social interaction with those of us with larger social partitions keeping those with smaller ones up to speed.

Remember high school? The cliques possessed 4d6 members, most people belonging to two or three with limited overlap. Now combine that with a searchable database of previous interactions and you get a community that can support several dozen members. The community then becomes like an ice shelf, to use increasingly bizarre similes, threatening to melt if it gets too small or calve off icebergs that float away aimlessly if it gets too big. From the perspective of a website, this is often perceived as an intractable problem. Our experience thus far in a continual state of undeath teaches us two things:

    1) User growth is easily managed through strict enforcement of taboos.
Many of you don't realize it, but our habitual trolling and otherwise scatalogical behavior is the anthropological equivalent of monkeys fucking each other in the ass, or chickens pecking if you prefer a less colorful metaphor. New users are put through a gauntlet of older users accusing them of dupedom, homosexuality, and Communist leanings as a sort of right-of-passage, like when your camp counselor made you milk the one-teeted cow.

That wasn't just me, right?

End result: the undesireables are driven away with painful anal rape and those who enjoy it go on to become productive members of our little society.

    2) Quality, not quantity, is the only thing that will save us from obscurity.
For reasons already stated, we cannot hope to keep up with other forums while maintaining our community aspect. In order to be relevant, we must also be elite. One article is all it takes to turn all heads our way. The fish are still biting. The fish will always bite; that's what fish do! Yes, we can be the cool kids of teh Internets, but it's going to take some work.

In short, gentle kurons, we must troll harder.

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o Accomplish ment
o binge drinking
o soccer hooligans
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o the alcoholic farker
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o an obituary
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o Australian friend
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o Finnish friend
o Faggotry
o a passing ship in the night
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o larger social partitions
o smaller ones
o several dozen members
o threatenin g to melt
o calve off icebergs
o perceived as an intractable problem
o monkeys fucking each other in the ass
o chickens pecking
o dupedom
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o Communist leanings
o productive
o members
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o One article
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o Also by LilDebbie


Display: Sort:
Community Doesn't Scale: Why k5 Is Perpetually Dying | 169 comments (143 topical, 26 editorial, 3 hidden)
Front page from me (3.00 / 2) (#3)
by mybostinks on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:02:22 PM EST

lil deb.

BTW, how's unemployment going and not smoking? Come to texas where it is warm and sunny and lots of jobs. You would be welcomed.

I'm starting to have dreams (none / 0) (#6)
by LilDebbie on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:32:41 PM EST

about smoking up. Almost nightly now. Argh!

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
nooooooooooooo, dont you dare LIlDeb!! (2.00 / 1) (#7)
by dakini on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:42:01 PM EST

hang in there damnit!!!!

" May your vision be clear, your heart strong, and may you always follow your dreams."
[ Parent ]
We're talking about pot (none / 0) (#9)
by LilDebbie on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:47:22 PM EST

Prospective employers could give a shit if I smoke cigarettes.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
well, yeah, i knew you meant pot..:) (none / 0) (#20)
by dakini on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 10:49:02 PM EST



" May your vision be clear, your heart strong, and may you always follow your dreams."
[ Parent ]
they're really talking about crack (3.00 / 3) (#26)
by livus on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 01:43:33 AM EST

but they don't want to give you a bad impression.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
By crack you mean cock right? (none / 0) (#155)
by confrontationman on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 04:10:02 PM EST



[ Parent ]
well said LilDeb..+1FP from me... (none / 1) (#8)
by dakini on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:43:37 PM EST



" May your vision be clear, your heart strong, and may you always follow your dreams."
Ok I need to know (3.00 / 2) (#10)
by billt on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:49:11 PM EST

for sure what rusty did with the CMF monies. I mean, if he used it for diapers and other necessities: ok, but if he really did spend it on some luxury item, then i need to know that

Rusty spent the CMF money (2.40 / 5) (#11)
by Armstrong Hammer on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 08:00:20 PM EST

on booze and hookers with the rest of the people on the CMF board until it was all gone. Occasionally he tries to make up for it, by releasing new versions of Scoop and bug fixes.
Learn about the true liberal agenda in the United States of America.

[ Parent ]
Rusty doesn't even work on scoop anymore (3.00 / 5) (#12)
by debacle on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 08:24:38 PM EST

I highly doubt he works at all.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
There was a rumor circulating (3.00 / 2) (#13)
by billt on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 08:43:26 PM EST

that he was working for that private security firm that protects the contractors in Iraq, but I think that may not be true.

[ Parent ]
What I did with it (3.00 / 5) (#41)
by rusty on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:15:16 AM EST

Paid rent, bought food, etc for the 6 or 8 months until I found a job. I know it's disappointing, but that's it. I would have bought something cool with it if I didn't need it just for regular income, but if that were the case, it never would have even occurred to me to ask for it.

It wasn't diapers though -- that was all way before Ellie came along.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

oh really (3.00 / 3) (#42)
by Tex Bigballs on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:19:34 AM EST

I would have bought something cool with it if I didn't need it just for regular income, but if that were the case, it never would have even occurred to me to ask for it

i see. so then now you are finally admitting that you never had any intention to use cmf donations for anything other than your personal profit?

[ Parent ]

Uh... yup? (3.00 / 3) (#43)
by rusty on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:22:19 AM EST

I never said anything different.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
hmm well that's a surprise (3.00 / 3) (#44)
by Tex Bigballs on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:23:26 AM EST

i was always under the impression that you were just grossly incompetent and not intentionally deceitful

[ Parent ]
I'm both (3.00 / 2) (#45)
by rusty on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:24:45 AM EST

Grossly incompetent (never actually started the CMF) and not intentionally deceitful (never said I was using the money for anything but supporting myself).

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
wtf (none / 1) (#148)
by karson on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:36:19 PM EST

seems pretty deceitful to me.  fortunately, there was an audit.

[ Parent ]
Fair Enough (3.00 / 1) (#46)
by billt on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 11:50:03 AM EST

We all gotta eat.

[ Parent ]
And (3.00 / 3) (#47)
by rusty on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 12:14:16 PM EST

...almost no one has to eat diapers. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
dont forget the monocles (3.00 / 3) (#70)
by loteck on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:47:08 PM EST

we all gotta see, too.
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

[ Parent ]
this is a ruse (none / 1) (#102)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:33:25 AM EST

we know it all really went to monocle polish and anchor grease for rusty's secret fleet of new england attack yachts.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
Simple solution: New EULA (3.00 / 7) (#14)
by GhostOfTiber on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 08:55:27 PM EST

"Upon leaving K5, you get shot.  No-one leaves K5".

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne

So sad (3.00 / 10) (#16)
by waxmop on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 09:54:28 PM EST

I don't get how some people here embrace FNH like it somehow vindicates their adolescent nonsense. FNH had a trollerific title, but was a compelling read. The dude had a real point to make. It took work by an intelligent person to write that story.

Trollery is an important part of a complete breakfast, but it is insufficient on its own. Without good articles, what's the point of scaring off the idiots?
--
Saying Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders.

correct (3.00 / 4) (#32)
by Delirium on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:33:40 AM EST

K5 is trolling at the cutting edge, so one of course must bring cutting-edge intellectualism to the party along with trolling.

[ Parent ]
Intellectualism is Eurotrash (none / 0) (#166)
by alba on Sun Mar 04, 2007 at 05:03:06 PM EST

Better stick to cheap jokes about Bush, Dick and Colon.

[ Parent ]
as always, (3.00 / 7) (#17)
by Kasreyn on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 10:05:22 PM EST

your grasp of the k5 zeitgeist is sure and firm. One can only assume this is due to all your past masturbatory experience. You make us proud.

However, I'm half tempted to -1 this... it seems to me that a necessary gauntlet for new k5ers should be figuring things out on their own. I'm not sure if I like the idea of your handy guide preparing them to "fit in" better. It seems to me that a certain period of adjustment to shattered optimism, followed by the growth of a hornlike callus of cynicism, would result in more tempered k5ers in our own mold.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
so you're sayin (3.00 / 4) (#19)
by nostalgiphile on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 10:44:51 PM EST

we should haze the null0s more, to properly "temper" them? I used to think so too, but then the problem is that they just lurk and contribute jack...Btw, I didn't read this as a handy guide to helping noobs "fit in" better. Rather, it seemed more like a pharmaceutically enhanced reverie on the sticky nature of kurommunity.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler
[ Parent ]
Maybe not more, total (none / 0) (#72)
by ksandstr on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:49:10 PM EST

But longer, definitely longer.

[ Parent ]
pain is the incubator of art (3.00 / 2) (#18)
by SaintPort on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 10:33:35 PM EST

there is a reason for the season of your discontent. Your pain has produced a shocking  exposé on the cabal.

Kaseryn has noted the true danger of your work and I must pray over my response in the event it comes to vote.

Shall I abstain?

seems apprapo, neh?

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

I think you probably mean... (3.00 / 2) (#36)
by BJH on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 08:32:45 AM EST

...apropos.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
not only that... (none / 0) (#149)
by SaintPort on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:47:07 PM EST

but I misspelled 'Kasreyn'.

I fail it.

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]

+1FP--says it all (almost) (3.00 / 8) (#22)
by nostalgiphile on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 11:36:33 PM EST

We enjoyed this quite a bit, & particularly the sly refences to Nip culture. Still, we think the pecking and internal trolling you mentioned is only part of k5's appeal--probly most of us are socially dysfunctional in the meat, hence the diary ghetto. The more important aspect, we think, is simply that many user accounts do stretch way back into the years...plus, we're largely chaotic neutral.

It's like, there are so-called 'internet forums' where people jack off in each other's mouths and toss off inane ideas, and then there is K5--the equivalent of an internet Senate, where senior members come to deliberate and discuss matters on a totally different plane (e.g., the whys and wherefores of ass-bleeding). Not that kurons are all stodgy, pompous, or full of self-import (or don't jack off on each other), but that they usually believe in what they're saying, or pretend to, or at least believe that they should say it in an articulate/clever/cutting/etc. manner. Other forums, like slashdick and muffy (intentionally not mentioning 4chin), fail it because they lack k5's elitist (or smartass) atmosphere. Problem is, like the Senate, we're so leet we rarely feel the need to produce anything cuz we're so leetly busy posing on the boob tube (here analogous to the diary ghetto). Anyways, you've done something and that's really something. Really.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler
Is United Fools one of your dupes?... (3.00 / 3) (#40)
by mirleid on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 09:46:27 AM EST

...writing style looks familiar, maybe you posted under the wrong account...

Chickens don't give milk
[ Parent ]
eh, I thought YUO were UF?!! (none / 0) (#85)
by nostalgiphile on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 09:06:46 PM EST

Alas, nope, I use only that one dupe--the one who can't spell properly and talks about being a badass ninja. Shit, wait, no, that's this one...n057.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler
[ Parent ]
the decline may be terminal (3.00 / 8) (#23)
by bunk on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 11:48:02 PM EST

In the two years I've been lurking and then trolling there has been no doubt that k5 has been consistently on the decline - hence the repeated cries of one of our most enduring memes 'k5 is dying'.

The front page posting threshold has gone from 70 to 40, and even the ghetto is struggling to turn over 10 or 12 diaries every 24 hours.  This is far down from historic levels and shows no sign of turning itself around.

What I'm getting at is the fact that K5 is dying is perhaps more historically significant than you suggest. It's hard not to contrast contemporary K5 to the golden era (when it was not unheard of for a single comment to get 150 individual ratings) and wonder if the decline is terminal.  Maybe K5 will find a stable equilibrium, but I see little evidence to suggest it will.


hunger strike + bong hits = super munchies -- horny smurf

I compare K5 to fashion. (3.00 / 4) (#28)
by eavier on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 02:54:57 AM EST

At the moment, we're hideously unfashionable daaaarling.

But fashion is cyclical. And like all things cyclical, it'll just take one incident (read natalie holloway part deux) to drag in a whole new breed of fucktardos, make us haute couture and swell our depleted ranks.

It'll happen. And I'll be there cock in hand to meet them.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]

i will sell my low uid for $10m on ebay (nt) (3.00 / 2) (#31)
by Delirium on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:31:45 AM EST



[ Parent ]
What low ID? (none / 0) (#35)
by BJH on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 08:29:25 AM EST

(OK, all you fuckers with your two and three digit IDs are now welcome to jump in.)
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
Bitch. /nt (none / 1) (#69)
by ksandstr on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:42:26 PM EST



[ Parent ]
johnny-come-lately = (none / 1) (#104)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:37:20 AM EST



--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
This... (none / 0) (#157)
by ubernostrum on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:33:26 PM EST

...this is why I still come to k5. I came late to the original party, but now I'm practically an old fart.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
tee hee (none / 0) (#176)
by ramses0 on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:01:38 AM EST

I knew that registering would come in handy some day :^) ... I miss the old days though.

Slashdot = Closed Editors

K5 = Open Edit Queue

Digg / Reddit = Even More So

So while Kuro5hin may die, one of these days forums will evolve in the right direction, it's just a matter of finding the next big thing (and getting a low UID ;^)

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great ju
[
Parent ]

i started reading k5... (none / 0) (#177)
by CodeWright on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:05:13 PM EST

...when the highest uid was just under 200.

but i didn't bother to register until i de-lurked to flame.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
Thanks but (none / 0) (#50)
by eavier on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 03:20:35 PM EST

my 64k UID is right in at the moment.

Whatever you do, don't take it into your house. It's probably full of Greeks. - Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi

Ufology Doktor in da house

[ Parent ]
i lawl at your uid = (none / 0) (#103)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:36:46 AM EST



--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
my slashdot ID is about that low (none / 0) (#108)
by Delirium on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:55:27 AM EST

somewhere in the 400s

[ Parent ]
funny thing is... (none / 0) (#136)
by CodeWright on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:47:14 AM EST

...i went to school with taco & hemos but always lurked /. and never bothered making an account until years later.

i knew taco's wife before he did. :)

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
wheel goes round (none / 0) (#143)
by driph on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:56:51 PM EST

Honestly, the cries of K5 is dying have been going on since 2000, any time there's been some sort of shift or upheaval.

Yeah, there has been a decline, but I think that equilibrium you refer to was reached a year or so ago, and things have been fairly stable ever since.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]

I've been biding my time. (none / 0) (#179)
by Boronx on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 03:04:21 AM EST

Now's my big chance!
Subspace
[ Parent ]
+1 for comparing k5 to Sauron (3.00 / 4) (#29)
by GrubbyBeardedHermit on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 03:30:43 AM EST

Stay of the E in future though.

GBH

E would prolly kill me (none / 1) (#62)
by LilDebbie on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:06:21 PM EST

As such, I've never tried it.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
The first rule of K5 (3.00 / 7) (#30)
by b1t r0t on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:36:40 AM EST

The first rule of K5 is: always talk about K5.

And that was a nice touch, linking the word "sex" to your user page.

-- Indymedia: the fanfiction.net of journalism.

Driving to Town Late to Mail a Letter (3.00 / 3) (#33)
by mirleid on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 07:10:48 AM EST

It is a cold and snowy night. The main street is deserted.
The only things moving are swirls of snow.
As I lift the mailbox door, I feel its cold iron.
There is a privacy I love in this snowy night.
Driving around, I will waste more time.

by Robert Bly. Somehow, it sounded appropriate...

Chickens don't give milk
Amen, brother (3.00 / 3) (#34)
by Egil Skallagrimson on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 07:51:04 AM EST


----------------

Enterobacteria phage T2 is a virulent bacteriophage of the T4-like viruses genus, in the family Myoviridae. It infects E. coli and is the best known of the T-even phages. Its virion contains linear double-stranded DNA, terminally redundant and circularly permuted.

In the spirit of this story, (3.00 / 6) (#38)
by insomnyuk on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 09:21:16 AM EST

I promise to post to k5 more often whilst under the influence of various substances. Wish me luck.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
Not recommended. (none / 0) (#65)
by j1mmy on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:24:39 PM EST

I tried to get a Valentine's Day drinking contest going a couple years ago, where participants take a shot for every comment on the story.

I vomited hardcore that night, and the story didn't even make section.

[ Parent ]

tl;dr (3.00 / 1) (#39)
by ksandstr on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 09:29:49 AM EST

Seems that K5 always looks like it's dying because we get like three new users a year. No explosive growth = no life = dying = good as dead.

Good thing the CMF ain't publicly traded, eh?

Fin.

The Last Days of k5 (3.00 / 4) (#51)
by starX on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 03:25:39 PM EST

Around the same time that Slashdot started to feel like it was devolving into a continuing angst driven whine to lynch the executives of the RIAA and the MPAA, I stumbled across k5. It wasn't the trolling that drew me to this place, it was the intelligent discussion about topical issues, and a sense that the people who were talking were doing more than just talking.

Maybe times are a changing, and maybe they're not, but whereas before heated discussion founded in opposing points of view would breakdown into trolling, that's the place it seems to like to start now. People aren't reading what they vote down and, apparently, what they're voting up in some cases.  I like your analogy to the glacier; k5 feels like it's fracturing into cliques.

It's the way of the internet in general, maybe. Email gives way to IM. Homepages give way to myspace. Kuro5hin can only resist the pressures of its external environment for so long. There are still other sites, that have been community forums for longer than k5 even, and they have found ways to survive. I suspect k5 will be no different. Rome fell in 476 AD, but the Byzantine's called themselves Roman until their empire fell in 1453.

If k5 ever really meant anything to anyone, if there ever really was a community that was more than just a url and a web forum, than it will survive in one form or another.

"I like you starX, you disagree without sounding like a fanatic from a rock-solid point of view. Highfive." --WonderJoust

the well has survived as such most likely (3.00 / 1) (#56)
by insomnyuk on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 03:54:00 PM EST

because it is peopled with iconoclasts and cranks, but most of all, because it costs money.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
A GOLD STAR FOR YUO (3.00 / 2) (#61)
by LilDebbie on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:05:24 PM EST

for getting the _Survivor_ reference. Very good, sir. I would also like to point out that your article on the failure of digg was inspirational to this story. Also, are you drunk?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

RE: Palahniuk (none / 0) (#120)
by LilDebbie on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:52:27 PM EST

_Survivor_ was my favorite version of his first book. He did, as a matter of fact, write a second book, and it's a queer little thing called _Haunted_ and I highly recommend it as one of the creepiest fucking things I've read in a while.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
nobody tries harder than us! (3.00 / 3) (#63)
by United Fools on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:09:24 PM EST


We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
The problem with K5 is (3.00 / 1) (#66)
by mybostinks on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 04:45:09 PM EST

that it doesn't have any real problems. Well, maybe the mod queue has some. But it always seems to work itself out.

I remember in 2000-2001 people here were way too serious and by 2003 things changed drastically and a lot of the original users faded away or were run off.

Now it is a playground with ocaisional seriousness to remind us all that there is another reason to come here, even if it is incidental.  K5 recruits for itself.

I do suspect at some point in the not too distant future the plug will get pulled a la Adequacy and that would be quite a shame.

Good content (3.00 / 3) (#82)
by it certainly is on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 07:50:15 PM EST

Adequacy was shut because it had a closed submission queue with a clique of editors providing most of the stories. When they were tired of it, they shut it.

While Rusty no doubt keeps the sponsors sweet, the servers running and the admins sharp, the site doesn't live or die on what he submits to the queue. In fact, he doesn't submit anything to the queue.

K5 goes on as long as its sponsors are happy and people are still submitting voteworthy material, which is pretty much the same as it was in 2000.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

I might also mention... (none / 1) (#130)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:28:37 AM EST

...that now that I have a job, whether the sponsors are happy or not doesn't really make such a huge difference. I don't live on what K5 earns.

I'd be a lot more likely to pull the plug if the site got big and busy again, to be honest. Although no, probably not, because it's a lot easier to make money with a big site now than it used to be. So either way, I see no reason to stop lurking anywhere on the horizon. At this point, all we have to do is exist for another decade or so to be an ancient and venerable (if not venereal) institution of the internets. I kinda want to see what that'll be like. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

A Real Job? Where? (none / 0) (#152)
by wiredog on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:13:46 AM EST

Did you get a haircut, too?

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]
naw, lots of originals still here (3.00 / 3) (#105)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:43:06 AM EST

we just lurk more

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
You know what?? (2.00 / 2) (#67)
by apple on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:20:55 PM EST

If everyone was, like, a little bit, like, nicer to people and things, then it wouldn't be dying. That's obviously the answer, you, and everybody else, just got to put aside your ingrained antisocial tendencies, and go out there, onto the other messageboards around the internets, and instead of trolling and winding people up and things, extend the hand of friendship, pay them compliments, say you like the things they like, then tell them about here and what a great site this is at K5, and say, hey, why don't you check it out? Then more people will come and visit, and they'll find a nice, friendly, welcoming website full of knowledgeable and well-balanced individuals. Come on, K5, why not be nice for a change, you might feel better.

-----------------
Sem4phore.org

i'd rather k5 die than lobotomize like that nt (3.00 / 1) (#71)
by circletimessquare on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:49:00 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
But if you had a lobotomy (3.00 / 1) (#76)
by apple on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:09:33 PM EST

You wouldn't think like that anymore. Who says one state is better than the other? Meaningless value judgements. Like saying red is better than blue.

-----------------
Sem4phore.org

[ Parent ]
only on k5 (none / 0) (#86)
by circletimessquare on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 09:21:30 PM EST

being lobotomized is not worse than being of sound mind

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I think CTS already had his n/t (none / 0) (#145)
by kromagg on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:14:02 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Lobotomy's supposed to make you calm (none / 0) (#164)
by nidarus on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 07:09:21 PM EST



[ Parent ]
It's no fault of mine (3.00 / 1) (#74)
by BottleRocket on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:00:20 PM EST

If my engorged, rigid words are uncomfortable in your delicate aural passage. Maybe you just need to put them in you more often.

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
$B R Σ III$

[ Parent ]

All it might cause me is distaste (none / 0) (#75)
by apple on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:08:17 PM EST

And it's more notions than words.

-----------------
Sem4phore.org

[ Parent ]
Yet here we are, carrying on a conversation (3.00 / 3) (#77)
by BottleRocket on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:13:26 PM EST

Sometimes our urges clash with our better judgement.

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
$B R Σ III$

[ Parent ]

wtf are urges? (3.00 / 2) (#91)
by LilDebbie on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 12:50:23 AM EST

what's better judgement for that matter?

PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE - LEARN FROM ELECTRICITY. TEH ELECTRONS KNOW THINGS.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

When enough of them are gathered (3.00 / 2) (#92)
by BottleRocket on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 01:10:29 AM EST

They shall pass through these very walls. For there is nothing with resistance so great that it can stop them all. The very air will crackle with them, until it breaks down and polarizes in their path.

Then the urges have been fulfilled, and will begin the charging process anew.

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
$B R Σ III$

[ Parent ]

Oh yes (none / 0) (#124)
by apple on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:18:11 AM EST

It's that primal urge of mine to indulge in reasoned debate!

-----------------
Sem4phore.org

[ Parent ]
Oh fuck off already. [nt] (none / 0) (#133)
by BJH on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:56:41 AM EST


--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
The destiny of man is to fail it (3.00 / 4) (#68)
by BottleRocket on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:32:14 PM EST

And K5 is dying. Ergo, K5 is the Divine Comedy of the intellect of man.

Your article has reminded me why I like it here, and that's why it, too, must fail.
-1 XXXOOO

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
. ₩ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
$B R Σ III$

Automatic -1 (3.00 / 6) (#94)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:39:36 AM EST

...because the "point" is buried under a bunch of useless emo-navel gazing (and because it's written by LilDebbie).

But to address what this article seems to be saying, K5 *is* declining in readership, but will likely keep its hardcore adherents (namely most of the people who are left) long enough to keep chugging away for awhile. Some improvements that I think would help have already been mentioned, such as the ability to add images or imbed video into articles and diaries.

Let's face it, we'll never be as popular as the news aggregator sites (Digg, Reddit, Slashdot etc.) because we don't have as much front page content as they do, even with the lowered threshold of 40. The diary section will keep chugging away, but will be of interest primarily to those already in the community. Also, given the editorially democratic nature of the site, any content we will be scattershot in focus. K5 isn't a huge destination for tech news anymore. If you want political analysis, cultural opinion, or f-1ction, you'll likely be looking at something that has a more narrow niche.

Still, even though those other sites have more to look at, they are dependent on links to other sites for their content while providing the forum and community for discussion. K5's advantage is that instead of aggregating content, it creates its own. So while we may not have many regular readers outside our core users, we will get huge boosts whenever something we do hits that FNH critical mass.

Of course, such an arrangement depends on having a large enough community to provide that content. We may scare away a lot of people, but I don't think that our "hazing" really hurts us. Husi is our kinder, gentler sister site and I hardly ever see much to hold my interest there as an outsider. I think our more competitive nature raises the bar and weeds out the mediocre.

Agreed. Wait, the other thing. (none / 1) (#101)
by fluxrad on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:33:07 AM EST

K5 isn't a news aggregator. Because of a lack of central editorship (and a lack of submissions) the site is simply unequipped to handle things like breaking news. By the time 40 people have read Anna Nicole dying here, her flawless boobies have already been posted across the wide series of tubes.

The only option that leaves is K5 as a cultural site, ala Slashdot (to some extent) and Somethingawful. What's interesting, though, is that K5 lacks specialization. That seems to be what's truly limiting growth. Look at SA (the forums more specifically). It's a comedy site. The user created content is designed to be funny. If shopping for cars is your cup of tea, you needn't surf there. Slashdot, while having more linked content (as you pointed out), is still a highly specialized site. Readers go there for a highly specific genre of content.

With K5 it's different. We lack specialization. And inasmuch as that's true - and I can't believe I'm agreeing with anything that emo fuck says - LilDebbie is right. We have to work for excellence. It's that elitist attitude which both propels our fair site to the forefront of "tech couture" and simultaneously prevents my stories from getting FP'ed. If we want to be "famous" then we've got to make sure that all story content is top notch. Either that, or we need to turn K5 into a strictly _topic x_ site, be that technology, mental illness, or just being so fucking emo it hurts.

That said, why does anyone care about popularity on the internets? So long as captain rust is paying the utility bill we've all got a place to yell at LilDebbie's dupe accounts.

--
"It is seldom liberty of any kind that is lost all at once."
-David Hume
[ Parent ]
We do specialize (3.00 / 4) (#116)
by LilDebbie on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 05:28:59 PM EST

in trolling, and that has served as the life support these past few years. Given the completely open nature of this forum, trolls around teh interweb come here to cut their teeth before heading back out to feast in greener pastures.

WE ARE THE ROCK UPON WHICH A THOUSAND SLAVERING TROLLS GNAW.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

Best point yet (none / 0) (#129)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:23:10 AM EST

why does anyone care about popularity on the internets?

Everyone should hold on to that thought. :-)

For me, more popularity == more traffic == more server issues == more work == less time to drink beer. That simple. So don't be looking to me to change anything with an eye toward dragging more people in here anytime soon. I like this size just fine.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

More popularity equals... (none / 0) (#131)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:44:32 AM EST

more pageviews = more ad money, correct? Or am I being completely naive about the economics of running this site.

[ Parent ]
Sort of, sometimes, maybe (none / 0) (#132)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:51:00 AM EST

I did admit that possibility somewhere else in this discussion. It's easier now, what with blogads and all. Back in the day there didn't seem to be much, if any correlation.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
I just read your past comment regarding... (none / 0) (#139)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:59:32 AM EST

...the site's profitability. While I certainly don't begrudge you making a buck off the site, it's good to know that it's more of a hobby than a livelihood. When the profit motive gets too insane, you get a shithole filled with meglomaniac admins known as Something Awful.

[ Parent ]
From my POV (none / 0) (#134)
by Cro Magnon on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:25:37 AM EST

More popularity == more posters posting stories, some of which might not totally suck. I realize that my POV differs from yours, mainly because this site has very little impact on my beer drinking.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
It does? (none / 0) (#138)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:57:43 AM EST

You must be the only one then. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
NO IMAGES, OH GOD, NO IMAGES = (3.00 / 3) (#106)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:46:58 AM EST



--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
LOL (3.00 / 4) (#95)
by daveybaby on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 06:49:12 AM EST

WHAT

sometimes (3.00 / 3) (#96)
by wampswillion on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 07:42:54 AM EST

the world turns when you don't even know it.

i mean who would have thought when i woke up this morning, there would be lil debbie singing "my funny valentine" to k5.  

"is your figure less than greek? is your mouth a little weak, when you open it to speak, are you smart?"    

and now i'm off to work.  where no one is singing at all.  but we ARE reciting the pledge.   under god and indivisible.  for liberty and justice for all.

i knew you would come back... (none / 0) (#107)
by CodeWright on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:49:08 AM EST

...even though you were upset at the k5 dingbats for a while.

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
codewright (none / 0) (#118)
by wampswillion on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 06:46:41 PM EST

i've been back for a bit now.  hmm.  

don't forGET my invitation.  

[ Parent ]

email me mailing address (none / 0) (#137)
by CodeWright on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:48:36 AM EST

they are going out soon (this month sometime)

--
A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

[ Parent ]
I'm Not In This Article (none / 0) (#97)
by Gruntathon on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:42:02 AM EST

What about the rest of us, the lurkers and those who only post the occasional insipid comments and diary?

We do so much, but get no notice. Please tell me, if just for curiousities sake, where do I fit into your plans for k5?
__________
If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO
Grist for the mill, baby... (3.00 / 2) (#100)
by fluxrad on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:17:23 AM EST

grist for the mill.

--
"It is seldom liberty of any kind that is lost all at once."
-David Hume
[ Parent ]
What Comes Out of the Machine (none / 0) (#125)
by Gruntathon on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:51:45 AM EST

If I am being fed into it?
__________
If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO
[ Parent ]
Insipid lurk-flour (3.00 / 4) (#128)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:19:01 AM EST

apparently.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Metcalfe Effect (none / 0) (#99)
by redelm on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:11:54 AM EST

Metcalfe's Law (network value increases as square of # of connections) is a particularly brutal survival-of-the-fittest. It really is "monopolize the niche or die."

K5 is insufficiently distinct from TOS (and other sites) to be worth the friction (glitches and irritations). So it loses readers and posters.

Community lives. USENET and mailing lists are as alive as ever. K5 is not, IMHO mostly a result of friction.



Hm (none / 0) (#127)
by rusty on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:18:21 AM EST

I don't believe that's true. Or, rather, I don't believe that Metcalfe's Law is the sole determinant of the value of a website.

I mean, try a thought experiment: Imagine two sites, one of which is invitation-only and features new writing by David Wallace, Thomas Pynchon, Amy Hempel, Jonathan Lethem, and Jonathan Franzen and another, which is open to anyone and features posting by ten thousand random people. Which is more valuable to someone looking for modern literary fiction? I would argue the first, despite Metcalfe's Law which would write it off as valueless.

But wait, you're saying, of those two, K5 certainly more resembles the latter. Which it does. But compared to Digg, we're practically bijou. The point anyway is just that invoking Metcalfe's Law throws a lot of babies out of the undefferentiated bathwater of generic network effects.

To set all that side though, and partly contradict it in order to address your specific point: "monopolize the niche or die," I wonder exactly what niche we have failed to monopolize?

I actually would argue that the continued existence of K5 indicates that there is a core niche here which is not being served (or not being served as well) anywhere else. The site's smaller now than it has been in years past, which seems clearly due to the growth of similar sites serving niches which we used to sort of cover but which were never vital to the existence of the site.

Groups have peeled off to Digg and Reddit for tech news and random links, HuSi for talking about their cats, dKos and friends for politics. We used to do more of all that stuff. But there's still something here that you don't get anywhere else, and the stats, which have held steady at 2.5-3 million pages a month for a couple years now bear that out.

My sense is that our niche is original personal stories from so-called "regular people." There are a few other places that do that sort of thing, but none at anything approaching even our seemingly low volume. I would point to the apparently currently-defunct Fray and This American Life as our nearest media relatives, and neither of those does anything more than weekly, if even that.

Basically, it's a low-volume niche, but we do pretty thoroughly monopolize it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Metcalfe vs friction (false postives) (none / 0) (#140)
by redelm on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:18:28 AM EST

Thank you for a detailed and thoughtful reply. It encourages me to keep up my end of the conversation.

Of course Metcalfe's Law is not a complete measure of value because it fails to account for the merit of the communicated materials. Eyeballs aren't all the same. Quality is difficult to measure and often dependant on individual values and tastes. So complete value is likewise subjective.

However, Metcalfe does capture the first order effect, the importance of numbers. Your literary website (I care nought for names) would also rate highly on Metcalfe because it would draw lots of readers. Metcalfe counts links, not directionality.

You ask about niche: For me, K5 has always been "more thoughtful and complex topical news commentary". The intelligent end of TOS. There is place for this and I think K5 captures it rather completely if not well. I don't know of any consistant competition. But it used to do better, coverage has slipped, and a number of valuable posters have deserted.

The "Personal Stories" niche you mention has been ravaged by MySpace and to the extent that K5 is dependant upon them, I'd suggest it move! The main distinction is community voting on interest which MySpace could easily add with a "Global Top8" or by category. But this is merely my vision, and I would not put it in any way above yours as you have far more data. And yours is the vision which must count.

My other [big] point is about friction. For K5 to thrive, it must attract [intelligent] posts. People post to be read, influence others. So technical glitches or design failures (disappearing posts) are death. Moreso when the content was the product of hard work. The quipers and flamers aren't as disappointed.

Harkening back to the OP, I would also suggest that high quality is not the same as absence of defects. The presence of good ideas requires some tolerance of bad ones. This gets into the under-appreciated "false positive" problem of recognizing spam and flamage.



[ Parent ]

"the undefferentiated bathwater" (none / 0) (#151)
by wiredog on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:11:18 AM EST

"of generic network effects."

Working title of chapter 3 of Rusty's new book:
Trolling the Scooposphere, or, Building a Community Based website For Fun and (A Little) Profit.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]

Been reading (none / 0) (#154)
by rusty on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 12:52:02 PM EST

Against the Day. I suspect that it shows.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Cockles (3.00 / 3) (#109)
by Noexit on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:59:05 AM EST

You've warmed the cockles of my heart. If I'm ever in your area I'd like to buy you a beer and then maybe we could gay it up a little bit.

lol, cockless. (none / 0) (#126)
by daveybaby on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:30:27 AM EST

um... sorry.

[ Parent ]
awwwww debs we love you too! (2.50 / 6) (#110)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 12:30:15 PM EST

don't make me poke you in the tummy like the doughboy!!!!1111

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
"K5 is dying" on front page of K5? (3.00 / 1) (#111)
by United Fools on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 02:08:52 PM EST

Does K5 confirm itself that it is dying?
We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
Troll Hard (3.00 / 1) (#112)
by localroger on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:25:39 PM EST

Steal the Internets!

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
CHAAARRRRRGE! (3.00 / 2) (#113)
by Sgt York on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:26:14 PM EST

I just picture you dressed up in military regalia, pacing back in forth in front of a huge American flag:
Now, there's one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home, and you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you, "What did you do in the second great FNH Flamewar?" You won't have to say, "Well, I bitched about Steve Ballmer on Slashdot." Alright now, you sons of bitches, you know how I feel. I will be proud to lead you wonderful guys into battle anytime, anywhere. That's all.
Damn, I'm gettin' all weepy.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

That was beautiful... (3.00 / 1) (#114)
by tweet on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 04:29:06 PM EST

...if it wasn't so twisted and dark inside I would shed a tear.

_______________________________________________
Not everything in black and white makes sense.

Why does everyone think I'm dark and twisted? (3.00 / 1) (#121)
by LilDebbie on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:04:09 AM EST

Oh, right.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
K5 is at a crossroads (3.00 / 8) (#119)
by guidoreichstadter on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:52:01 PM EST

one path leads to despair and utter hopelessness; the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose the right one.


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
Natalie Holloway was K5's peak (none / 0) (#122)
by kbudha on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:18:05 AM EST

Its all downhill from here.


Kurons are neurons (3.00 / 1) (#123)
by Pentashagon on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:21:33 AM EST

Online communities and forums are just primitive hive minds. As far as I can tell, Kuro5hin is basically just the long running train of thought of a lonely, confused, manic depressive hive mind waiting for the singularity.

The "big" sites are just the loudest hyperactive hive minds. They produce a lot of thoughts, but they're repetitive and often shallow. They're like the people who won't shut up and won't learn anything (and they come to your home and eat all your bandwidth and won't leave).

If The Well Can Still Be Around (none / 0) (#135)
by Inhibit on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:29:23 AM EST

(The Well) I don't see a problem for Kuro5hin pulling it.  Hell.  I must've been here for a while now..  and there's still random crap that floats up out of the que to interest me.
-- Inhibit, PCBurn Linux hardware/software reviewer
Remarkable. (3.00 / 2) (#141)
by Ignore Amos on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:03:06 PM EST

You just keep wanking away over here.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero

Well muh dick still works (3.00 / 2) (#144)
by LilDebbie on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:41:04 PM EST

why should I stop?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
no way! i'm lame, it's my nature (3.00 / 1) (#147)
by sye on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:16:05 PM EST

i can't help it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
commentary - For a better sye@K5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ripple me ~~> ~allthingsgo: gateway to Garden of Perfect Brightess in CNY/BTC/LTC/DRK
rubbing u ~~> ~procrasti: getaway to HE'LL
Hey! at least he was in a stable relationship. - procrasti
enter K5 via Blastar.in

It's a side effect (none / 0) (#158)
by LilDebbie on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 09:42:53 PM EST

of the communism.

So do you live on the boat with the rest of the yahoos, or are you just friends with 'em?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

somebody gotta earn a living (none / 0) (#161)
by sye on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 12:30:40 AM EST

to afford others afloat...until communism really rules this land.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
commentary - For a better sye@K5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ripple me ~~> ~allthingsgo: gateway to Garden of Perfect Brightess in CNY/BTC/LTC/DRK
rubbing u ~~> ~procrasti: getaway to HE'LL
Hey! at least he was in a stable relationship. - procrasti
enter K5 via Blastar.in
[ Parent ]

would that be you? (none / 0) (#162)
by LilDebbie on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 02:04:04 PM EST

if so, why do you subsidize other people's lifestyles?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
My comment defies the title of your post (3.00 / 1) (#150)
by drbunny666 on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 12:13:03 AM EST

Thanks for the very insightful and thought provoking read, Lil Debbie. It was powerful, way off beat, and forced me to do something I have never done - post a comment here on Kuro5hin, even after lurking for at least 4 years.

I am not feeling verbose enough to justify my actions right now, I just thought it would be fun to be contrary to your article and have a positive effect at the same time. Im sure Im not the only lurker here ;) I think the obvious metrics like # of articles or comment rankings dont reflect lurkers who return sporadicaly due to the low churn, but nonetheless genuinely appreciate this wonderful stop along the internet.

Thanks Debbie and everybody else

that's the spririt! (3.00 / 1) (#156)
by tetsuwan on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:10:46 PM EST

lol

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

We will drag you kicking and screaming (3.00 / 2) (#159)
by LilDebbie on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 09:44:01 PM EST

and in the end, you will have difficulty describing us to the police sketch artist due to the post-traumatic stress disorder.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
it's that unique socialist format (none / 0) (#160)
by roast cat fat on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 10:24:42 PM EST

i don't know any other sites that serve quite the same function as here.  amateurs write lengthy discussion pieces for free, with no limitation or suggestion on content or topic except what's determined by the mob, just for the pleasure of duty and praise.  only serious communists or, like you said, sex offenders could get any enjoyment out of reading or participating in this kind of site.

where else is like 1/10 of the content "meta" about how the site should be run differently, or pats on the back like this story?

there have been some grandiose "meta" moments in the history of this site, like the contested advent of f-1ction, probably the undoing of this place.  or that awkward period when you couldn't register new logins.

yeah k5 is continuously dying, but it's had a good run and will go on for a while...can't someone write a complete history of this site with just the highlights, etc, instead of this kind of nonsense stuff that's ruining the site as much or more than f-1ction did.

rusty, do you want to write a book?  you'd make more money than from your text ads and subscription pittance, and it'd cause a membership surge.

unlike blogs (none / 0) (#174)
by tetsuwan on Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 03:13:17 PM EST

where people write about their naval fluff 9 times out of 10.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

yargh (none / 1) (#163)
by Beayf on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 06:02:22 PM EST

argh

Oh dear..... (none / 0) (#165)
by Marvaud on Sat Mar 03, 2007 at 07:27:08 AM EST

I don't think I've heard you complaining like this before.
But then I'm probably one of the "community"
who has in the past felt unwelcome in here.
Just wanted to say being intellectually snobbish
is one way to keep your numbers down.
And encouraging vile but witty writing of course is another terrible sign of the times that people
seem to now think it's "cool" to be revolting
and oh yes, let's treasure anyone who can
write about the more base elements of life.
Whatever.........

Given your UID (none / 0) (#169)
by LilDebbie on Thu Mar 08, 2007 at 12:16:17 AM EST

I can safely say you weren't here when it wasn't "cool" to be revolting.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
The articles here read like diary entries. (none / 0) (#167)
by Fredrick Doulton on Mon Mar 05, 2007 at 02:53:24 AM EST

The fact that this "article" made it to the front page is a great example of why K5 is dying. You won't even see tripe like this on Digg, and that's saying a lot. Keep up the good work, folks.

Bush/Cheney 2004! - "Because we've still got more people to kill"

Who Really Knows? (none / 0) (#168)
by DarkAdmiral on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 06:18:08 PM EST

I doubt that anyone truly knows why we keep coming back. I still do even though the thing I tried to post got ripped to shreds due to typing errors caused be 2nd degree burns on my hands. Despite the rudeness this is still a regular stop.

Two Comments (none / 0) (#170)
by Heyref on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 04:10:33 PM EST


  1. When you start talking about the viability of something, instead of participating in it; it's already dead.
  2. What ever that shit is, stop taking it.



So you are saying (3.00 / 1) (#171)
by fortasse on Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 05:50:12 PM EST

that you made your hair look like a penis from the Edo period.  I hear that many of the geisha hairstyles resembled vulvae and whatnot.  They would include a red ribbon for effect.

I just joined tonight. (3.00 / 3) (#172)
by shoolz on Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 01:37:28 AM EST

Now I think I want to back away very slowly while smiling to make sure nobody attacks me.

Whatever you do (3.00 / 1) (#173)
by LilDebbie on Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 12:36:34 PM EST

don't make eye contact. No sudden movements either.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Maybe its b/c of postes like this (none / 0) (#175)
by graham1881 on Thu Mar 15, 2007 at 10:35:16 PM EST

First of all I would like to say that my comments here aren't about this post specifically but instead focused on the genre of the "K5 is dying" posts.  I am writing out of years of frustration with these posts that have proven to be less than accurate... K5 is still here after all!  So my apologies to LilDebbie.  I don't mean to trash you or your post.

I used to visit and comment on K5 but several years ago I stopped.  It seemed as though the articles trashing the site became ever more common.  

How much can a person hear how much this site sucks before they start believing it?  

How many interested people were turned away by the self-loathing posts that seem to be posted all the time?  

How many of those that turned away would have made positive contributions?  

And how many trolls see an online community uselessly bitching about itself and said to themselves "hey now, this is a place where I can write self-indulgent hyper-negative posts that I don't even really care about and not look like the most depressively histrionic person, evar."  

That is my rant.  Again, apologies to anyone I offended.

You've inspired me... (none / 0) (#178)
by Brogdel on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 05:46:00 PM EST

I'm going to visit K5 more often; oh, and smoke more pot too. You knew I'd be back looking for that goat anyway, you filthy fucker. Oh yeah. Uh huh.

What K5 really needs (none / 0) (#180)
by Skeletor9000 on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:49:33 AM EST

... is a front page full of nothing but LocalRoger's painfully dull attempts at science fiction. What doesn't kill K5 makes it stronger.

Community Doesn't Scale: Why k5 Is Perpetually Dying | 169 comments (143 topical, 26 editorial, 3 hidden)
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