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[P]
Delicious, delicious irony

By debillitatus in Meta
Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:17:50 AM EST
Tags: k5, demise thereof (all tags)
k5

One of our more prolific users, localroger, recently posted a diary about how this online community of ours has failed.  In and of itself, this is not ironic or even remarkable; the perennial breast-beating that our community is dying is perhaps one of the more notable signature memes of our community.

No, the irony is in the fact that he based his claim around an essay which is actually an exegesis of the strengths of k5 --- a laundry list of what we are doing right.

To borrow a metaphor, yes, k5 is full of alligators, but they're in the moat guarding the castle.



Let's start with this:  Everyone reading this is here of their own free will.

None of us are getting paid to be here (notable exception being rusty).  We're all here because we want to be here, because we get something out of being here, because we find this place useful or interesting.  I, for one, find the place very interesting.  All the trolling aside, there is not one single place on the web where there is anything remotely like the level of novelty k5 has to offer.

Pretty much everyone who contributes here is an interesting character.  Some of us are interesting because we are doing interesting things with our lives and have a compelling story to tell.  Some of us are interesting because we have fascinating pathologies and find ever more intriguing ways to Fail at Life.  The Bee Guy is only one of a long list of people who fit in the former group; we can pass over in silence names from the latter (I'm sure some names are popping into your heads even now).  

Yes, localroger, even you are an interesting character, although not at all for the reasons you think.

Moreover, k5 is easily the most innovative and novel places that exist on the internet.  No question.  If I had to list the 100 most intriguing things I've ever seen on the internet,  I have no doubt that 50 of them were here, and I don't even think I'd be exaggerating if I said 75 of them were here.  Cool shit happens here, and that's why we stay.

I simply cannot stress enough how remarkable our online community is in this regard.  If you doubt it for a second, read through the comments of a Slashdot story, and reflect upon how much insipid cheerleading and mindless drivel gets pumped out into every one of these threads.  The perfect example:  whenever a story including the word "correlation" appears, the first person to post "Correlation is not causation" gets 5'd. Every. Time1.  And Slashdot is one of the better places: if you want your brain to hurt, read a Fark or a Digg thread, or (holy Christ) a Youtube thread.

What one sees over and over in large online communities is that people who want to express themselves, but have nothing to say, just crapflood everything.  Now, the Shirky essay points out that this is a signature problem of large social groups and that the way to correct for this is that there needs to be a barrier to entry.  And Shirky is correct. Basically, it has nothing to do with intention or desire, it's simply that most people are themselves boring and don't want to see anything new --- they are perfectly happy to join an online community where everything thinks as they do, bleat the same points at each other, and then think that they had a conversation.

Localroger makes a point of reminding us that Daily Kos has way more visitors, and makes way more money, than k5 does.  Of course it does; it's popular for exactly the same reason Lindsay Lohan is popular.  It's completely and utterly vapid.

So, you might ask: what is it that makes k5 so interesting?  What is that high barrier to entry which keeps out the mindless?  And my answer is simple: the trolling.

Bear with me for a second here.  As Shirky points out, the problem with any online forum is the fact that it's so egalitarian, people give each other so much respect, it's open to all.  And therein lies the rub:  people with really stupid shit to say get treated with about as much respect as people with something interesting to say.  People who drone on about trivialities not only get as much face time as people who make concise and insightful arguments, they get more, because they're droning.  And, worse, people who take themselves too seriously, and who have cultivated a writing style which makes them seem like a thoughtful expert to most people on first glance, generate sycophantic followers.

That doesn't happen here.  Anyone who takes themselves too seriously gets taken down a peg by droves of critics.  The vapid is mercilessly mocked; the pontificators get dick jokes and suicide advice.  This does two things:



  • the "snowflakes" get run the fuck off and we don't have to hear the excruciatingly painful missives about "how they feel" about the war in Iraq, and the self-important bloviators get exactly the lack of respect they deserve.

  • it allows us to really feel each other out, to see what the other people are really like.  Anyone who has ever played a team sport knows this instinctively, but let me spell it out for the others:  hazing is the best way for a group of people to get to know each other and to cohere --- you learn a lot about someone in how they react to a joke about their mother.  You learn how seriously they take themselves, and how they see their relationship within the group.  The shotgun mouthwash jokes allow us to have that shared experience and to build that community.

Is k5 a failure?  Not at all.  If you're reading this, it's because you're here, and if you're here, it's either because you have something interesting to say, or want to read something novel.  And it is that way because we chased off all the chaff.

---

1 - example thanks to Vampire ZAMAZ

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Display: Sort:
Delicious, delicious irony | 166 comments (145 topical, 21 editorial, 0 hidden)
I had similar thoughts. (2.80 / 5) (#1)
by Pentashagon on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 02:43:22 PM EST

The Internet is subject to selection pressure.

If it lives on the Internet, it's successful in its niche.  If nothing can overtake its niche, it's wildly successful.  Can anyone imagine anything twisted enough to replace k5?

4chan, and i don't need to imagine it. (none / 1) (#5)
by lostincali on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 04:57:26 PM EST

it already exists.

"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."
[ Parent ]

My point stands; (none / 1) (#19)
by Pentashagon on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:57:21 PM EST

All the losers too weak/"sophiticated" for 4chan will hang out here.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, right. (none / 1) (#77)
by Corwin06 on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 06:21:03 AM EST

Like you'd get anything on 4chan by Keith Henson about the Origin of War? Or a free e-novel like MOPI? Or, to stay in localroger territory - Plant, Food Plant, A Casino Odissey?

Or the stories by Mike Crawford? They must be interesting, I've read them all. (And his whole site too. I enjoy reading on mental illnesses, what with my Asperger's and seven years of depression)

What about the do-it-yourself articles? Make your own soap & shampoo, beehive, wine, beer, cooking.

Even recently, I had been thinking "k5 really is dying now" for a while, then someone wrote that little jewel about ultra-light backpacking. Now I'm not the sportive type, far from it - but the article was interesting, and I think of walking a couple of days to and from each music fests I'll go to next year instead of just buying a train ticket... because without having to carry a ton of stuff, it might be fun.

And I absolutely loved the review of the latest Batman. Even translated it into French for my friends too lazy to pick up the easiest and most useful language on Earth.

I liked the recent story about medical weed - it's nice to have a mental picture of what a dispensary looks like in reality, instead of the one depicted in Weeds (No, I don't watch TV, but I'm a pothead too and I obviously have a 'Net connection. Besides, it's the only series I find really funny and does not make me cringe more than once per episode.)

There are interesting stories on k5, period. Sometimes.

And I for one don't give a flying fuck about the trolling, it's just the k5 way of conversation.

"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
Corrollary (none / 1) (#88)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:28:52 AM EST

There are interesting stories on k5, period. Sometimes.

...and (I'd add) it is not an absolute necessity for there to be a new interesting story every day. Or even every week. Once a month? That'd put us on par with basically every established print magazine on earth. I can live with that.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Yeah, don't take my comment the wrong way. (none / 0) (#142)
by Pentashagon on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:01:01 PM EST

k5 has enough good articles to balance out the hundreds of trolls and anal masturbation articles.

But k5 will continue to harbor the people who don't belong anywhere else, or more importantly whose ideas don't belong anywhere else.  That's a good thing for k5, because it generates more good articles.

[ Parent ]

Yes. (none / 0) (#145)
by Corwin06 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 09:56:20 AM EST

I should have replied to the parent to your comment; I was basically expanding on a point that was in your comment.

Seems that we're all much to used to replies only saying No/Wrong/YFI on the previous comment... but then the title of my reply was unwisely chosen.

So : yes, here on k5 you find stories that just would not appear anywhere else. Especially not on vapid, empty, content-void 4chan. (The only good thing on 4chan is Rule34 anyway IMO ... at least it's good for lulz)

"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
*faaaaaaaaaart* (2.28 / 7) (#2)
by lonelyhobo on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 03:23:37 PM EST



vapid (1.00 / 2) (#3)
by Nimey on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 04:12:50 PM EST

Kill yourself.
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

WILL DO TOUTE DE FUCKING SUITE (3.00 / 7) (#15)
by debillitatus on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 10:35:59 PM EST

RIGHT AFTER MY MEDIEVAL WEDDING

Damn you and your daily doubles, you brigand!
[ Parent ]

CAN I COME? (3.00 / 3) (#18)
by Nimey on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:39:33 PM EST

I'LL BE THE SYPHILITIC BEGGAR.
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

[ Parent ]
BEGGAR FOR MOAR COCK AMIRITE (3.00 / 4) (#20)
by debillitatus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:43:34 AM EST


Damn you and your daily doubles, you brigand!
[ Parent ]

So you kept the costume from your wedding then? (none / 1) (#27)
by undermyne on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:12:16 PM EST



"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo [ Parent ]
HOW CAN YOU NOT CAN COME? (none / 0) (#78)
by Corwin06 on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 06:46:32 AM EST


"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
can i be (2.83 / 6) (#4)
by nononoitaintmebabe on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 04:53:08 PM EST

a snowflake AND stay here?  

You're A Mother To Us All (3.00 / 2) (#21)
by MichaelCrawford on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 03:51:33 AM EST

lonelyhobo trolled me, and it hurts real bad. Could you kiss it and make it better?


--

Live your fucking life. Sue someone on the Internet. Write a fucking music player. Like the great man Michael David Crawford has shown us all: Hard work, a strong will to stalk, and a few fries short of a happy meal goes a long way. -- bride of spidy


[ Parent ]

Dude (3.00 / 5) (#23)
by Scrymarch on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 07:53:09 AM EST

That's how she got in this whole "mother to a thousand vagrants" situation in the first place.

[ Parent ]
some of you (3.00 / 3) (#141)
by nononoitaintmebabe on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:41:48 PM EST

are illegitimate.

[ Parent ]
So who here Fails at life the worst? (none / 1) (#8)
by nlscb on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:27:57 PM EST

haha nlscb! ROFL, etc ... etc ...

Some of the "Failures" I'm not sure I can take seriously as failures. Lemonjuice seems like someone just making stuff up, for example.

Except for Baldrson, I never really have come across a failure here, at least one who stuck around long enough to take our abuse.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

then you're not looking very hard (none / 0) (#13)
by lostincali on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 10:16:40 PM EST


"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."
[ Parent ]

Examples? (none / 1) (#17)
by nlscb on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:36:46 PM EST

Ok, I guess mindpxl - but I kinda liked him.

Well, at least he never got on my nerves. I was genuinely sorry to hear what happened.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

There was that dude that died hiking (3.00 / 2) (#22)
by QuantumFoam on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 07:45:56 AM EST

That's some pretty hard fail.

- Barack Obama: Because it will work this time. Honest!
[ Parent ]

Freak accidents don't count (none / 1) (#24)
by nlscb on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 11:40:06 AM EST

Gotta have a long established history of Fail.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

MICHAEL DAVID CRAWFORD (3.00 / 2) (#29)
by undermyne on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:20:35 PM EST

I would post supporting links but there isn't enough time in the day or room on this page.

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo [ Parent ]
I'd have said... (none / 0) (#80)
by Corwin06 on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 07:01:30 AM EST

Trane. Fuckin' stupid junkie loser. Even when I was on chemical drugs I never failed that much and low.
Haven't seen him around in ages... Oh. Last diary Aug 16 2k8? Thought he'd given up on k5.
"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
I agree with the premise (2.75 / 4) (#11)
by Verteiron on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 09:51:33 PM EST

One of the reasons I (mostly) lurk here is the sheer beauty and elegance of the trolling and flaming. This community has elevated both to an art form. I can't help but admire it.
--
Prisoners! Seize each other!
4chan does it better (none / 0) (#165)
by m50d on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 05:13:29 PM EST

/nt

[ Parent ]
+1 fp a good old time k5 circlejerk (none / 1) (#26)
by lostincali on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:05:54 PM EST


"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."

eh (3.00 / 4) (#31)
by khallow on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:40:41 PM EST

More like mutual scab pulling. Which is a different kink.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

Anything to push down that postDigifail crap (none / 1) (#28)
by undermyne on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:17:58 PM EST

that is corrupting the FP. The fact that story posted is very strong support for argument that k5 is dead. I have had two stories that got more votes (below threshold) that didn't post. But there is no liberal slant/censorship by any of the admins on this site </sarcasm> .

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo
For what it's worth... (2.87 / 8) (#30)
by mybostinks on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:44:02 PM EST

There seems to be a lot k5 self-reflection since the k5 surcharge for user accounts.

Going through the stories of only a couple years ago shows most of the users that commented then no longer lurk here. The ghetto would rollover every few hours then too. It seemed to peak out around the time somaudlin et.al was around.

Also since Jan 2006, a score of 70 was required to make FP, now of course it is more than half that. A real popular story would post in a couple of hours. Now it takes most of the 36 hour limit.

Queue amusement came when an occasional spammer posted something in the edit queue. That provided lots of entertainment. Now even that is gone.

Taking a look at Google Trends and Alexa show that even slashdot readership has declined during that same period. I thought that would never happen. It appears to be declining at a steady rate too.

I think a big reason for all this is not the trolling that goes on here but the fact there was an emergence of sites like digg, boingboing and wider use of newsfeeds. People that were less interested in trolling but more interested in tech news etc simply moved on.

The trolling fields are riper at myspace and facebook but it is too easy to do last I checked. The hard part is finding a good bulletin board to troll. Lately though election bulletin boards have been fun.

Just my two cents

I totally agree with you. Your (none / 0) (#37)
by dakini on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 04:30:05 AM EST

two cents and my two cents, makes that three cents worth.

" May your vision be clear, your heart strong, and may you always follow your dreams."
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced (none / 0) (#154)
by schrotie on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 03:44:52 AM EST

The decline of searches for "newsfeed" and "rss" mirrors that of "slashdot". "Boingboing"'s decline set in a bit later, and "digg"'s later yet.

[ Parent ]
The verdict: (2.14 / 7) (#36)
by gr3y on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 10:27:38 PM EST

Your vote (0) was recorded.
This story currently has a total score of 21.

So, basically, I don't care. Your submission and localroger's are both an order of magnitude greater than my apathy threshold. My policy is to vote meta to section, but the recent stark hatred for localroger is sad and pathetic, considering the sources are a bunch of passive-aggressive, compulsive, meta-masturbators who would be unable to form a coherent sentence in the presence of the person they claim to detest if the Internet didn't exist to shield them from the consequences of their actions.

I don't pay any special attention to what localroger says because he's notorious and the impact of that notoriety is present in everything he says, like crawford, but localroger is the site's resident furry, and everyone feels safe beating up on him, even the useless and pathetic few who simply can't resist following everything he says with a fucking rebuttal.

You fucking fail it, "it" being having the capacity for original thought.

I am a disruptive technology.

WTF have I done? (2.50 / 2) (#38)
by mirleid on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:20:12 AM EST

Your vote (1) was recorded.
This story currently has a total score of 30.

You're the straw that broke the camel's back!
Your vote put this story over the threshold, and it should now appear on the front page. Enjoy!



Chickens don't give milk
looks like a bit of meta-wankery to me $ (none / 0) (#40)
by yuo on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:35:47 AM EST


I wish I had thought of pants pants pants pants pants pants pants pants.
[ Parent ]

I don't want to be here (2.33 / 6) (#41)
by Cro Magnon on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 10:08:10 AM EST

I've been kidnapped and held prisoner. As part of my torture, I'm being forced to read and post at K5.
Information wants to be beer.
This is an old idea (2.50 / 2) (#43)
by waxmop on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 11:21:42 AM EST

This place is a goofy old coelacanth. It will survive forever, but it is largely irrelevant to the rest of the web.

Sure, the trolls scare off the idiots. They're like the jackals in our ecosystem. But the trolls are insufficient to keep this place from turning into a desert. This place also needs really smart people writing well-written articles, and easily 80% of those people are gone.

I don't think the trolls scared them off. This site just didn't fight hard enough to keep them. Rusty stopped innovating the plumbing behind the site. The CMF fiasco didn't help.

Consider this: if you just finished a 1000-word article of really good content, why post it exclusively to k5? Maybe in 2001, k5 was a good option. But why now? Why not post it to your blog, then promote it on reddit, digg, and a dozen planet sites? You'll get way more page views, and people can still discuss your stuff in an external forum. It doesn't matter if you want publicity, adsense $$$, or just a noble discussion of ideas. K5 is no longer the best means to any of those ends.

The k5 idea of a community-based filter was great. Way better than the slashdot approach. But that idea is old hat now. Everybody does that.
--
there are few things more badass than a lost cause. nailgun

Warm fuzzies (3.00 / 2) (#46)
by rusty on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST

But that idea is old hat now. Everybody does that.

That makes me happy. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Nobody can be wrong all the time (none / 0) (#59)
by waxmop on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 06:11:39 PM EST

K5 circa 1999 was teh awesome. Now in 2008, it's like seeing a classic rock band after all the original members have all gotten fat and bald or have been replaced entirely.

Here's an idea. Announce this site will go offline as of some fixed date. Sell mysql dumps of the site for $100 each.

Go out like Jim Morrison not like Elvis.
--
there are few things more badass than a lost cause. nailgun
[ Parent ]

I should (none / 0) (#60)
by rusty on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 07:32:47 PM EST

Historically, every time the site's been offline has been a great boost for it. Perhaps we've been up continuously for too long.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Slight revision (none / 1) (#62)
by waxmop on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 07:44:12 PM EST

Don't sell copies of that mysql dump. First, delete every known backup of the site's database. Then auction the last dump. Winner gets the rights to do whatever, including re-releasing it with whatever license he wants, or just permanently deleting it.
--
We are a monoculture of horsecock. Liar
[ Parent ]
the rights are not transferable (none / 0) (#64)
by dongs on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 08:33:08 PM EST

see the legalese page

[ Parent ]
This is EXACTLY why you think it's an old (none / 0) (#68)
by Hiphopopotamus on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:41:02 PM EST

rock band: because you're an old guy being old. Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

and even more (3.00 / 2) (#48)
by blackbart on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:45:39 PM EST

with departures of the better posters, your conversations here tend to turn into uninformed dreck even when the occasional interesting subject does turn up.

"I use this dupe for modbombing and impersonating a highly paid government worker"
- army of phred
[ Parent ]

Digg is a crapflooded shithole (none / 0) (#147)
by anaesthetica on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 01:31:32 PM EST

You need to be an established digg-whoring 'power-user' in order to get anything to the front page.  Publishing a blog and then promoting it on Digg is a sure route to getting a total of 2 diggs and no inbound traffic or links.  You have a somewhat better chance on Reddit, since it hasn't been completely gamed to death.

But moreover, this misses the point: when you publish on k5 you're publishing to a known community, whereas publishing on a blog is publishing it to anyone (no one).  Digg comments are shit, Reddit comments not much better, and k5 comments a slight cut above those these days.

So there are still value-adds to publishing to k5, mostly the type of things that the Shirky article goes over regarding identity and community.

I think you're right though that trolls are insufficient to keep this place from completely drying out.  There needs to be some sort of balance between content creation and trolling.  Trolls on k5 are kinda like the social version of editors on Wikipedia: they add little to no actual content, but keep everything in line.  A small minority actually writes the substantive content here, just like on Wikipedia.  On Wikipedia, the asshole administrators and anti-vandalism crusaders will tend to scare off the less persistent content creators, simply because they don't have enough time or patience to deal with browbeatings from 14-year-old communists living in their parents' basement in Singapore because they didn't jump through the correct hoops.  Likewise, trolls here scare off the "snowflake" content creators.

You're also right that the site itself has undergone very little conceptual or technical evolution for a very long time.  Few changes to Scoop, a couple new sections, endless fiddling with account creation and mojo and comment ratings.  Without any growth in this area, it's hard to see k5 ever experiencing a profound revival.  New wine into old bags, you see.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
This is an outdated model (none / 1) (#148)
by waxmop on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 08:03:35 PM EST

I see a big parallel between how svn is losing mindshare to git and how people are trending away from reading sites directly and instead are pulling down RSS feeds in their browser, and then posting their responses on their own blog. The pendulum is swinging away from websites that act like individual city-states with limited interaction and towards stuff like all these mashup and aggregator sites.

Digg and reddit are just prototypes. People are still working out the details, but the trend is obvious.

It isn't as easy as it should be, but it's getting easier and easier for two or three people to have a conversation where each of them only posts on their own site, and readers use an aggregator to follow the conversation.

K5 was a damn fine coelacanth.
--
We are a monoculture of horsecock. Liar
[ Parent ]

What drives this? (none / 0) (#149)
by anaesthetica on Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 03:02:48 PM EST

Besides the permissive causation of technological advances (e.g. blogging, RSS), what is the value-add that's driving this decentralization?

One factor I can think of is the ability to escape the arbitrary information structures of each individual community.  A second is that each individual's holistic commentary history can be kept in one place (narcissism), rather than spread across multiple sites and accounts.  A third is the escape from 'grassroots tyranny' that occurs within communities (e.g bury brigades, /. mindthink, k5 never letting Orion Blastar reach FP except for that one time).

Digg and Reddit play a certain role in restructuring, but I'm not clear on exactly how they're structurally different from k5.

I think blogs (both in individual publishing and in aggregating (blogspamming)) and RSS probably play a greater role.

It might be interesting to write an article for the queue on designing a new site within the new context, and what would be necessary to overcome the problems of community scaling, decentralization, trolling/spamming/crapflooding/me-too-ism/flaming, etc.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
Reddit is great (none / 0) (#150)
by Peaker on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 12:22:42 PM EST

Reddit comments not much better

I find that they are much better...

You can find crap everywhere, but Reddit comments seem to be quite intelligent most of the time.

[ Parent ]

4chan? (none / 1) (#44)
by mfinn999 on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:22:56 PM EST

How is 4chan a replacement for kuro5hin?

Lots of fapping? -rn (none / 0) (#55)
by Sgt York on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 04:21:11 PM EST


There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

I like it there (none / 1) (#50)
by mirko on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 02:49:36 PM EST

I love the subject line flamewars, the open goatse adoration and the fact neither Slashdotters nor Diggers will haunt there.

But at the moment I don't have much time to write, as I'm already busy helping your fellows educating Amuritans...
--
Finally I managed to make the decision that I would work on it. - MDC
we had to huddle together - trane

Wrong on three points: (2.80 / 5) (#51)
by Liar on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 03:12:50 PM EST

"The vapid is mercilessly mocked." This is incomplete. All things get mercilessly mocked whether it's warranted or not. You may not get snowflakes, but neither do you get any pillars or respectability who endured our trial by fire... they got mocked and moved on too. Anyone with something to offer would offer it to someplace that appreciates it. You're left with the lowest common denominator. The very rare piece of good content is the exception that proves the rule: this place tolerates any behavior: even good behavior!

"it allows us to really feel each other out" No, it doesn't. It forces you to don a strawman persona because anything which might get to the heart of the matter would be poisonous to discuss in this environment. That's not discussion. It's posturing.

"it's either because you have something interesting to say, or want to read something novel." There's many people without interesting things to say but they'll say them anyway. Fewer people actually read than you think--a given entry isn't to have one's pearl of wisdom shared but provides an opportunity for people to hear themselves talk. Any given posting is a coathook on which people can build their solipsisms and they frequently do. Also, like hanging out at the 7-11, there's many people who are just killing time and K5 is as good a place as any. I'm not sure that's really praiseworthy, just like 7-11s. I think this means that I now have to imagine rusty speaking in a Pakistani accent.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
I disagree (none / 1) (#54)
by Sgt York on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 04:19:12 PM EST

You may not get snowflakes, but neither do you get any pillars or respectability who endured our trial by fire
Bee Guy. The only error code everyone can like.

I like K5. I've hung out at a 7-11. It's not anywhere near as interesting.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

bee guy's among exceptions to prove the rule (none / 1) (#58)
by Liar on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 05:26:27 PM EST

I'd also count you on occasion. Where has CBB gone? From Matt's Particle Physics, where's Matt? Cr8dle2Grave? Would Larry Sanger and Jimbo Wales air their differences here? Will the next startup look to K5 for potential recruitment and community support? You and I have spoken about this before and you accept the site after its decline as it is but the vibrancy of the K5 community is greatly diminished now than when I came on board 7-8 years ago. How's Ko4ting doing? Nowadays, the difference is one of tone. We have one single abusive Lord of the Flies tone. We are a monoculture of horsecock.

People have actively left K5 (as opposed to passively like being too busy, misplacing the URL, etc.). If you're driving people away from your site, you have to wonder what your trading off. If the goal is to run off only the vapid (per this article), why then is most of the content here so vapid--in jokes, feuding, and the huge game of gotcha between community members to post "tl;dr" first?


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Sigged (none / 0) (#61)
by waxmop on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 07:39:27 PM EST

That's a k5 tradition that remains!
--
We are a monoculture of horsecock. Liar
[ Parent ]
Have you read Husi lately? (3.00 / 2) (#70)
by Hiphopopotamus on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:45:15 PM EST

CBB figured out a while ago that you can't hang out in ghettos and be a writer who gits published in paper. He's too busy doing his own site.

I happen to think he's not entirely correct. And I'm lazy. But, that's where your content has gone.

People need to get over the old days were so damn great mindset and see what's happening instead of what their aspie mind thinks should happen.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

That's my point (3.00 / 3) (#73)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:09:01 AM EST

You may recall not too long ago Delirium posted an article about the number of times K5 was cited in professional journals. There was one citation in 2004 and the rest occurred before then. No one comes here now with any aspiration. In fact, no one new does come here because it's not worth the entrance fee. Good posters move on because K5 isn't worth the effort of participation by anyone who matters or any content worth mattering. So, what worthwhile content does exist only trickles in.

You say to look at the site as it is instead of as it was. Well, why be blind? Let's compare. Here's K5's frontpage at the beginning of every year (not counting it's first since it was mostly just "test" messages):

2001(5)
2002(5)
2003(9)
2004(6)
2005(18)
2006(25)
2007 (25)
2008 (66)

That number in parenthesis represents the number of days between the oldest story and the newest story to the front page. Notice a trend? All of the features described in this story should mean that K5's discussion is better. I'm not seeing an improvement either in quality of story writing or even quantity of stories. We're deep in meta-territory as we have not been since the site's sophmore year and there's been a severe decline in experts writing about their areas of expertise. At best, we have well meaning laymen who just don't deliver that same level of knowledge about what they're writing about and those who were experts won't correct them because either they've moved on or its not worth the fight because the winning argument is always "gay hookup in prograss"[sic].

So, in what way are we better off now? Because MisterQueue went off to HuSi? Well, so did UCBlockhead and we're poorer for that. Sorry, I'll always prefer the quality of the discussion that was here before everyone decided that being an ass was cool.

If K5 is a community, any municipality would have called it distressed by now. You are the junky in the once thriving metropolis upset that someone thinks the bridge you sleep under can be improved. Forgive me for thinking the site has more potential than as a gutter for your piss.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
I think you're trying to fit a dead paradigm (none / 0) (#81)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 07:52:07 AM EST

into a non-existent place. I don't think you actually read Husi, where all your favorite writers have gone. Not only is UCblockhead boring as hell (and one of the more ignorant, self-satisfied people I've ever had the pleasure of arguing with), he never writes anything other than diaries. No one there does. You write one or two articles and make some interesting points about computers or something and suddenly you have legendary status?

The only person I can think of other than CBB who is consistently good is Psycho Dave. The rest are just armchair typers. They type and sometimes a few interesting idea cribbed from NPR make their way through.

No, K5 is the only place I can find where you get interesting content, even if 99% of it crap. That 1% is 1% more than you get at the current location of your favorite writers. K5 is good because the paradigm keeps changing. That means its fresh, not stagnant and predictable.

The silly, late '90's idea that Internet is a great utopia filled with intelligent people is ridiculous and it never existed. I was there when K5 was in its glory days. It wasn't that glorious. It was reach-around central without the ability to post cat pictures. A bunch of Star Trek fans with too much time on there hands does not intelligent conversation make.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

your rhetoric and history are wanting (none / 0) (#89)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:38:30 AM EST

You shouldn't compare Husi and K5. Let's look at what you hate about HuSi. Mostly diaries? That's K5. Boring as hell? Look at the K5's front page now compared to three years ago. Ignorant? Self-Satisfied? That describes over half the survivors here. Armchair typers? That too describes K5ers perfectly.

HuSi is primarily for writing diaries. And I never brought up HuSi--you are as though the two sites aim for the same niche. There was a time when people did try to make a competition between the two sites, but HuSi gave up on it and the inertia to do so is dead. So, what I'm saying here could also apply there although K5 has the actual pedigree and HuSi did not.

As for people like UCBlockhead, that's a matter of opinion. I found him incredibly insightful on certain matters just as I find you incredibly insightful on certain matters, but that doesn't mean I must necessarily find either of you insightful on all matters about which you post. Speaking of ignorant and self-satisfied, one of the differences between the two of you is that UCB wouldn't try to take credit for the decline in story writing for this site. You're just reinforcing my point that all we do is posture anymore and that's opposed to the thesis of this article of why K5 is the Awesomest Site Evar!

The success of a site like K5 isn't based on the trolls or the consistently good writing of a small group of authors as you seem to imagine but the occasional good writing of any random author. I don't think the average person has more than a handful of great stories in them. Otherwise, why not vet the author and auto-post their stories to the front page? You need scores of authors who have the time to craft articles which can compete for the +1FP. Out of each of them you'll have some "Living with Schizoaffective Disorder" and some of everything else Michael Crawford has put in the queue. Run off the average guy and you're going to have a stale group real quick who run out of originality. Maybe that's why it takes 2 months for a front page article to get pushed off?

My bar isn't that high: more stuff in the queue by a large variety of authors leads to a better K5 experience for everyone: more stories, fresh faces, new challenging ideas. How many new challenging ideas do you have remaining in you? How many do any of us survivors have? But if you stay with the same boring group all the time, no number of stories can improve the place. The insularity of K5 isn't a positive quality and I think we could tolerate some reform to breathe life into this place.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Your history is also wanting (none / 0) (#90)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:46:36 AM EST

Husi is a good comparison because it is made up of the very people who most people lacking vision about what it is we're doing here see as the members of the Good Ol' Days. But, they produce no content. Husi is what K5 would be if it was actually stale and dull. D-Kos is what it would be if it was only politics we talked here. Slashdot if we were all devoid of life. Etc, etc, etc.

At least we generate actual content. Not enough to push the frontpage with new cutting edge yadda-yadda-yadda, but better than anything else I can find. So, it may not be the best site evar, but it's the better site. And by weeding out the whiners, you are left with actual vitriolic opinion instead of fake BS about how much my user ID in a database cares about your user ID in a database.

I remember the old days. They were boring. Things didn't get good until about 2004.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

that's pure sophistry (none / 1) (#104)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:56:57 AM EST

If you think I'm talking about bringing back the good ol' users, you're failing reading comprehension. K5 needs new members is what I was saying.

I point to these people to show contributors that were compelled to walk away from this site. What they do afterward, I'm not nearly so interested in--perhaps they continue to post like CBB and perhaps they retire. But the fact remains that K5 wants to tear contributors down and that's not a gain in my eyes. Look at the front page: how many front page articles are personal attacks? And you think we're so much better now as a result?

The old days were boring? When a diary written in the morning would be pushed off by noon, two new front page stories, and numerous sectional contributions every day? Are you sure you were around?

"At least we generate actual content." The current front page is 50% meta if you include the one story where the author couldn't be bothered to categorize it correctly. Actual content? It takes months just to generate that paltry amount. I'm not going to argue that we don't produce some worthwhile stories, but they are rare in comparison to times when we'd get 12 times the number of submissions. And while not all stories were quality then, neither are they all quality now; quality has always been a percent of the contributions. So, increase the number of submissions and you get more opportunities for good content. Decrease the number of stories, and you decrease the chances of good content.

And that's where we are at now playing the long odds but insisting that we've figured out the game. Vegas was made for people like you.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
What can I say? (none / 0) (#106)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:31:29 PM EST

I actually try and contribute. I notice a galling lack of contribution for all your complaining. My contributions might be crap or they might be genius (they probably are), but they are there.

And I don't spend time whining about the lack of contributions from others.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

I do post (none / 0) (#108)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:46:24 PM EST

I posted a story on Nacerima folktales a few weeks ago. It failed. I've posted other stories but in the last year I've been focusing on my child rather than cultivating stories. Let's see your contributions... Well, now that's a galling lack! Put your money where you mouth is; try your chance in the queue with more stories about Naked Lunch...

What I find funny is that if someone says, "K5 is doing good! Rah! Rah! Rah!" anyone who disagrees is considered whining about it. I'm sorry, the story invited criticism and I've backed it up with arguments and supporting links. You'd silence that disagreement.

And that's why you hinder K5.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
You have two old stories (none / 0) (#110)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:50:55 PM EST

I have a bunch. I don't bother with the queue. Most people have no idea what they are talking about.

You contribute much less than I do and then try and justify with raising a child. Weak.

I may do more with NL because I've been going over that terrible essay I wrote and thinking of ways to extend and fill in the arguments some more, plus add a bunch more about Burke and Korzybski.

I will provide no links because it's stupid.

But, you don't hold K5 back. You don't anything for it, really.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

stop it or you'll make me cry (none / 0) (#114)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:08:18 PM EST

"You contribute much less than I do and then try and justify with raising a child. Weak."

Yeah, I know. Silly me. K5 über alles.

Still, I contribute less or I don't contribute at all? Which non sequitorial argument of yours should I be paying attention to now?

You think the heart of the issue is with authors. That's not the issue. The issue is with stories. What do you care if it's localroger who writes something that brought you to your knees with emotion or MichaelCrawford who compels you out of your dogmatic slumbers? Does the byline matter so much to you that you miss the point of the site which is an experiment in content generation? You keep recasting it as a short sighted issue with individuals when it's really a systemic one.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
None is less than something. (none / 0) (#116)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:30:18 PM EST

You keep seeing it as it should be without raising the question as to why it should be, speaking of dogmatic slumber. I see it as it currently is, and I feel very content that the site generates anything at all.

I think you may have noticed that no one here or even in the past could be considered a proper writer. CBB is about the closest thing so far. At least gets interviewed.

As far as new paradigms go, this place is as good as it ever has been. And that depends on authors. An essentially live blog-type thing like K5 is entirely dependent on authors. Your outmoded (maybe even never-moded?) idea from the late '90's is still outmoded.

I don't think anyone was trying to ever bring The New York Review of Books Sci-Fi style to the net, despite your please for it. Give it up; it's a dead idea.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

you're strange (none / 0) (#119)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:11:32 PM EST

You seem to think that I'm advocating only published writers need apply, when I'd like to have a place where amateurs and professionals from all careers could post here and contribute their insights however inarticulately.

There was a time when K5 attracted people to it. That's no longer the case. I see this as a problem because it inhibits content creation. You call this a new paradigm, out of fashion, and dogmatic. Wow.

I see rampant negativity and want it softened because, again, it inhibits content creation. You call this a New York Times Review of Books style. Wow. Hyperbole much?

No wonder you don't want the site to aspire beyond your own woeful level of reading comprehension.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Amazing. (none / 1) (#121)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:18:59 PM EST

You do all the name calling here and make it seem like you're so above it all.

All jokes aside, the problem is a weeder vs. seeder problem. You like to weed the garden of bad ideas, I'd rather throw out a bunch of seed and see what grows. Essentially, you're a conservative-minded person. K5 is not.

Also, you may want to re-read my last post so as not to continue misreading my posts and then calling me comprehension deficient. It makes you look bad.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

re-read it (none / 0) (#123)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:42:46 PM EST

My points still stand.

Weeder vs. Seeder might be a valid way of looking at it, but there's two things: what bad ideas would you assume I advocate pruning? You don't know because I haven't said and it would be inaccurate to say that I'd advocate the pruning of even bad ideas because that would be censorship. Now, how those ideas are expressed, that's a different matter altogether...

The other problem is that I'm not sure the seeders are seeding. Maybe they're composting as per Rusty's analogy in another thread, but there's always some joker who will say, "Well, what happens when I throw this on the compost pile?" As a result, without having some discretion, you don't have a compost pile filled with organic material but a dump filled with used tires, styrofoam cups, motor oil, plastic flamingoes, and gasoline. Weeds may grow through the mess, but only because it's the most hardy stuff. Flowers and crops are complete accidents and they may appear but they don't thrive.

And to oppose the seeding idea in another way, many in the K5 ranks right now are actively focused on mugging one particular person on the front page, in diaries, in sections and in every comment he posts. Even this article is about how the gauntlet people must run is what makes them a better person. That's not seeding or fertilizing. That's refusing to water and hailing the cactus as the "Bestest Plant Evar!"

So, I think you've mis-identified the seeders and the weeders here.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
I never identified them. The weeders ALWAYS (none / 0) (#124)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:07:43 PM EST

outnumber the seeders. And the ones that do nothing are moot points. However, it is in the nature of weeders to reject most things seeders throw out there, even when those things eventually show themselves to be useful because the weeders operate under old paradigms. But, they keep things more or less intact.

The seeders, by their nature, generally think the weeders are too uptight and need to loosen up a little. Also, they have a lot of bad ideas, but they also have a lot of ideas in general.

Neither one is right until they meet at a sweet spot where the new ideas get refined.

I"m not saying K5 is the place where those good ideas get refined, but it is a very good place for throwing new ideas out there. And for thickening your skin, since IRL is far more quick to reject without even reading than this place, despite the protests.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

your analogy is flawed (none / 0) (#135)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 06:24:20 PM EST

It's now so far unhinged, I have no idea how or to whom your analogy is meant to refer... I don't think any of your claims resemble K5 or its dynamics as you intend them. If you're saying that the atmosphere of K5 is mostly one of seeding(seeders outnumber weeders), and there's evidence that there isn't(the ongoing gangbang on lr), then you'd best explain that or your analogy begins to falter.

But I don't think you can. The seeders are fewer than the trolls who want to get attention for themselves at the expense of anyone who is trying to gain it honestly. There is much which is taboo here as evidenced by the well known "HUSI----->" subjectline, so I'm not sure how you can say that K5 is mostly seeders. I think any topic should be talked about, but that is clearly not encouraged here.

And your reply to that would likely be: "well, those things are boring or irritating, like UCBlockhead." Fine, but then don't kid yourself about being a seeder. Welcome to the "uptight and need to loosen up a little" club.

How accepting has the community been with your recent serial? I think it has some quality to it. Don't go calling Random House, but it's a good diversion. Look at the comments in your diary and tell me that's the seeders in action.

As you acknowledged, we ought to seed and to weed. If you weed without seeding, you have no growth. If you seed without weeding, your crop gets overrun. Both are necessary, yet you want strongly to curtail any weeding calling even the least displeasure as "whining". I'm sure a garden full of nettles is one of delight for you but understand that others may want to stroll in their garden wearing only sandals. If they have to put on boots every time, they may find that they're not really in commune with that garden (like this article saying that only here can we really get to know each other).

Anyway, let's get off this analogy, it's not benefitting you.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
You're not reading, so I stopped at your first (none / 0) (#138)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 07:49:23 PM EST

major mistake which was that you think I said K5 is full of seeders. It's not. It's full nullos. But there are seeders here, whereas most other sites don't allow you to even get that far.

Let's not bother with this. You seem to hate any idea that migrated past 1999.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

fine (none / 0) (#140)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:27:32 PM EST

I was reading. In fact, re-reading now, I'm not sure where you said anything about the site mostly being nullos though you acknowledge their existence.

If you want to say my clairvoyance is broken, I'll accept that.

Meanwhile, I will say that your clairvoyance is broken. I love my daughter and she's a post-1999 idea.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Even as I was writing it... (none / 0) (#131)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:40:31 PM EST

...I knew that compost analogy was going to go way too far and bite me in the ass in short order. Oh well.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
it's a tragic confluence of analogies (none / 0) (#133)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 05:13:11 PM EST

This will turn into a gardening thread in a moment where H and I debate the best way to ward off raccoons.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Just wait... (none / 0) (#87)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:24:17 AM EST

...any distressed area inevitably attracts gentrifiers.

But seriously, if you think all that (and I don't dispute that it's a valid point of view) what are you doing about it? If everyone who has taken the opportunity to decry the sorry state of K5 in the spate of recent metas had written a story about something they know about instead, I can't see that we'd have any problem anymore.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

It takes encouragement (none / 0) (#101)
by Liar on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:41:17 AM EST

On the one hand, in a toxic environment, one learns to hold one's breath. But it's not as though I don't try posting at all. One of my stories failed a couple weeks back (probably deservedly so) but you can't say I'm not trying. Still, it's a half-hearted effort after all this time I've been here and I'm not exactly feeling encouraged to post more.

I can only speak for myself but I paid an emotional cost from some of the comments directed at me when I wrote that article about childhood sexual abuse (part of the reason I retired the SocratesGhost account though I don't hide the fact that it's me). And while I weathered them, I'm not sure that's something which encourages potential authors to come and write here. Authors need to feel rewarded either through praise or worthwhile criticism--but that's a function of the audience. So, when I look at this audience, the bad behavior turns otherwise worthwhile contributions away. And because of this, if I post to the queue, it'll be second-rate matters which aren't important to me since the first rate stories I'll save for an audience with worthwhile criticism. I have heavily researched a story all but finished covering the decade preceding Beethoven's creation of his Ninth Symphony--a period in his life I find absolutely compelling both historically and psychologically. The question for me is: what do I get out of posting it? Will it face real criticism or vandalism? I think we both know which way it will go.

So, although I'm not doing anything aggressively for K5 anymore, I will speak up when someone says "K5 is doing great for reason XYZ" or "K5 is dying for reason XYZ". I'm not sure that either are worthwhile notions to dwell on, but I think there are things which can be done to clean up the joint but I'm afraid it would require involvement from you that you're not comfortable (or have the time) to do. So, I'll just stick to saying, "K5 isn't as great as its citizens think it is" unless my perception of the site is changed.


I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
Fair enough (none / 1) (#103)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:44:04 AM EST

I say it's also not as bad as some other of its citizens think it is. But I see your point.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Buy or get out (none / 1) (#86)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:20:37 AM EST

This is not a lending library.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
i have a serious question (2.85 / 7) (#52)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 03:40:57 PM EST

why does everyone pile on localroger?

the litany of his horrible "crimes" are no worse than any of you other cocksuckers

so what's the big deal with localroger? it has to be some sort of other issue going on here. what has he done? the animosty displayed towards him goes way above and beyond the call of duty for the typical low grade animosity here

why does localroger leave so many of you turds with your kill switch set on full retard?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Same reason as you: (3.00 / 4) (#53)
by it certainly is on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 03:55:44 PM EST

too fucking full of himself. Longwinded blowhard.

You should enter into some sort of pact of camaraderie with him. If he falls, you're next.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

oh i'm next? (none / 1) (#65)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:29:36 PM EST

there's a difference between localroger, michael craweford and me

the other two are decent

me? i'm an egomaniac asshole who feeds off of negative attention

i know that, and I LIKE THAT

so go ahead cocksucker

BLOW ME

less teeth this time you fucking skank


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

1 and a half cent reasons... (2.00 / 3) (#56)
by mirko on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 04:22:35 PM EST

  • I don't know him so it makes him easier to bully

  • he's a gay nigger troll of a jewish family

  • he told us he'd like to anally rape kittens and ducklings
  • he looks dead as a teletubby

Otherwise I've no idea he was your father, which makes you a collateral victim.

Now, whe is the movie coming to Switzerland?
--
Finally I managed to make the decision that I would work on it. - MDC
we had to huddle together - trane
[ Parent ]

The big deal is... (3.00 / 2) (#57)
by warrax on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 04:31:40 PM EST

He's not a bot like the rest of you.

-- "Guns don't kill people. I kill people."
[ Parent ]
Trolls need (3.00 / 2) (#66)
by maniac1860 on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:38:52 PM EST

someone to troll.

Localroger is like a guy with multiple bleeding wounds who jumps into a tank full of sharks and then goes around punching them in the nose.

[ Parent ]

And try as they might... (none / 0) (#105)
by localroger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:05:19 PM EST

...they can't seem to fucking kill me. How gay is that?

And that is what is so great about the internet. It enables pompous blowhards to connect with other pompous blowhards in a vast circle jerk of pomposity
[ Parent ]
the sharks don't like rancid meat (none / 1) (#146)
by Zombie Schrodingers Cat on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 10:42:20 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Never met an actual shark, have you? (none / 0) (#152)
by localroger on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 03:02:27 PM EST

They don't care about rancid. SRSLY.

And that is what is so great about the internet. It enables pompous blowhards to connect with other pompous blowhards in a vast circle jerk of pomposity
[ Parent ]
Because Engineers are the enemies of Programmers (none / 1) (#69)
by Hiphopopotamus on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:42:40 PM EST

but they both do the same gay-ass job. 2 dogs fight over a bone and I steal the non-gay bone for my own amusement.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

lol (3.00 / 3) (#72)
by osm on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 10:25:40 PM EST

you want the "bone"

--------
4thelulz.org
[ Parent ]

localroger gives the attention-starved attention. (none / 0) (#74)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:30:20 AM EST

And he's an easy target, give that he is fairly sincere.

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
a perfect picture of dysfunction (none / 0) (#82)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 08:32:40 AM EST

"i crave attention, and i reward the person who gives it to me by ridiculing him"

i'm not criticizing you so much as the larger part of k5 (nowadays) for that attitude

and most teenagers, some college students, and other assorted retards of chronological adult age but permanent toxic emotional-cognitive maladjustment

this kind of dysfunction pretty much defines the reason for the failure of the social lives of a lot of sad fucked up turds in this world

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I agree with you (none / 0) (#109)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:47:38 PM EST

People get hung up on freedom of speech. Everyone has the freedom to stand on the street corner and spew their drivel. And people will see it for what it is, one lonely person full of hate who's pissed off at the world for not being as hateful as them.

There's no obligation to publish and legitimize such poison, just as someone who poisoned a well would be removed from society, people who poison this community should be removed.

Rusty's problem is that he pretty much only does this when it gets personal with him, which is totally bunk.

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]

right attitude, wrong approach (none / 0) (#111)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:53:34 PM EST

the idea is to get rid of the stinkpots

but you don't do that by executing (censoring, banning)stinkpots, mainly because one person's stinkpot is another person's rose

what you do is you create an environment that rewards the roses

then you get 30 roses for every one stinkpot, and the rose smell overwhelms the shit smell

the real problem with this site is that the environment rewards the stinkpots

such that k5 once might have been 30 roses to one stinkpot, but is now more like 3 stinkpots to 1 rose

but my larger point is that you have the right attitude, wrong approach

because banning people is wrong, unless they are obviously bogus (spam, crapflooders). simply because one person's criteria for sucking is not the same as someone else's. there just is no valid uniform code for bannination

so the proper approach is flooding the stinkpots out. let them be, just make sure they are  aminor voice by encouraging good contributors

i myself have stopped ocntributing (i am not saying i am a wonderful rose, but i'm not a completely useless loer either) becuase i'm fucking sick of slaving over a story and having it shot down by some dim bulb going "LOL WUT?" and voting -1

the environment here on k5 rewards such losers

thats the real problem: what the environment rewards

it rwards the wrong qualities here

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

the best we could hope for (none / 0) (#118)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:45:55 PM EST

is for rusty to ban the worst offenders, he's not going to do anything else

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
eh (none / 0) (#122)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:36:26 PM EST

maybe at this point

ok, my comments are applied to k5 a la 2004


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Out of curiosity (none / 0) (#129)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:38:17 PM EST

Who are the worst offenders? I.e. who would you ban?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
how the fuck should I know? (none / 0) (#143)
by rhiannon on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 12:20:09 AM EST

Isn't that your job?

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
On the other hand (none / 0) (#113)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:06:53 PM EST

There's no obligation to, say, force out someone's drivel when it could be better enjoyed by posting it and mocking the author. If you want to walk by the street-corner raver, that's fine. But lots of people like hang out and to heckle.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
that explains a lot (none / 0) (#117)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:39:30 PM EST

everything about this site suddenly makes sense

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
Light dawns on Marblehead. (none / 0) (#126)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:25:25 PM EST

C'mon, you have to have noticed that half the stories here are well written and interesting, and half are clearly written by aspie lunatics. Did you think it was an accident?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Site for stories by aspie lunatics lol nt (none / 0) (#134)
by Corwin06 on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 05:13:43 PM EST


"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
We get (3)s for it. (none / 1) (#76)
by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 04:29:28 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Cut down (none / 1) (#85)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:18:39 AM EST

the tall trees.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
rusty knows it (none / 1) (#91)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:56:30 AM EST

rusty, whatever you can say about k5, it most certainly is this:

no greater demonstration of the tragedy of the commons has ever been played out

k5 was full of stars, and through hard, prolonged effort, the toxic have been concentrated and the brilliant have been expelled

to the point where now the front page stories actually celebrate this: pillory localroger

why? what reason?

because he has the slightest bit of something positive about him. therefore, he must be expelled, leaving only us, the pure drek of the world

i'm not trying to be sad-minded about it, or sound tragic, its actually quite compelling and interesting. nothing makes great cinema like a spectacular train wreck

like a pot of boiling water going for an entire day until all is evaporated, here all we have left on k5 is the organic detritus, the salt, the oily condensate, sticking like the slime it is to the bottom of the hot dry pot

my suggestion, which should be a (relatively speaking) easy tweak because it involves destroying code, not creating code: no more negative feedback

not on stories, not on comments. positive only. what this means is you can only say something nice, or you can't say anything at all. this disables the toxic entities here their most potent weapon in their mindless efforts

but it might be too late, the toxic outnumber the positive here nowadays

but if you do that,i'll start submitting stories again. i don't do that anymore. all that effort, only to be shot down by feeble minds whose only synapse fires "LOL WUT?"


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I have a different view (none / 0) (#93)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 10:33:36 AM EST

I think K5 operates more like a hot compost pile. You toss in fresh green material, and the hot pile destroys the weakest organisms and extracts all the valuable nutrients from it. Eventually what was once a shiny red tomato with a bit of a worm hole is just the same rich black humus as the rest of the pile. But its good stuff has been added to the pile, and made it better.

I haven't seen anyone yet run off before they essentially ran out of valuable nutrients to add to our pile. If anyone was looking for a reason Sgt. York or bee guy are still here, it's because they're very rich in nutrients and fairly dense.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

your examples suck (none / 0) (#94)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 10:57:11 AM EST

bee dude and york are tone deaf

they soldier on regardless of the environment

but for every bee dude and york, there are 1,000 other bee dudes and yorks who are NOT here anymore, because they took one look at the neighborhood and go "this place smells bad"


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Dunno (none / 0) (#95)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:01:44 AM EST

You say "smells bad," I say "packed with nitrogen and phosphorus."

And I do apologize for my example. It's because I've spent the last few days collecting and spreading rotten seaweed on some new garden beds. It's kinda been on my mind.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

aren't you worried about the salt? (none / 0) (#96)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:07:46 AM EST

let's see if we can mark the analogy this way:

you can't have roses without shit, true

but that doesn't mean you walk around with shit in your hair

you grow the roses in the shit, then you stick the rose in your hair

ie:

k5 SHOULD be a ferment, from which the roses are plucked out

but all we seem to have on display on the front page right now is the ferment


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

There are always phases (none / 0) (#98)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:23:57 AM EST

My compost bin is aswarm with fruit flies right now. Like, you have to pull off the lid and then take a huge step back or the cloud coming up will just choke you.

So, it's not very pleasant. But who cares? Sometimes it's full of flies. Sometimes it's moldy and smells like ass. These conditions eventually pass.

The ferment analogy doesn't do it for me. Fermenting is the process of converting sugar into alcohol and gas. It has a set time period in which it happens (ok, you can do continuous ferment, but it's difficult and you end up with bland beer). Fermenting is just feeding a captive population of microorganisms with food they like and collecting their shit when they're done, because the shit is what you value. I suppose it kind of works, but I like the compost analogy better.

Anyway. My point is that's how it goes. Patience is always rewarded. Except sometimes when you fuck up and have to throw a whole batch away and start over.

----

No, I'm not worried about the salt. Everything I read seems to say that the seaweed itself doesn't contain a lot of salt. All the salt is just on the outside, from seawater residue. I think if I washed it all off and somehow captured the salt, it wouldn't add up to more than a couple teaspoons. The consensus on the gardening forums appears to be some people rinse because they think they ought to be worried about salt (but haven't ever not rinsed, so they don't really know), and lots of people don't and haven't ever had any trouble.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

get one of these then (none / 0) (#99)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:31:03 AM EST

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=211779&ac=PHnws


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I want to (none / 0) (#102)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42:29 AM EST

Technically, since I live in Portland, I'm not allowed to have chickens either. But tons of people do and no one seems to care. It's in the plans eventually, it just hasn't come up to the top of the list yet.

I also want ducks. More reliable eggs, and they eat slugs like they're going out of style.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

then you can have balut (none / 0) (#107)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 12:38:13 PM EST

http://desk.stinkpot.org:8080/blog/index.php/2007/10/15/balut

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Awesome (none / 0) (#112)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:03:46 PM EST

You chinamen will eat anything, won't you.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
chinamen? (none / 0) (#115)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:10:22 PM EST

well, i was going to say your a narrow minded racist twat

but, using your own logic in calling me a chinaman, all i can say to you is what should i have expected? you're canadian after all


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Wut are you talking aboot? (none / 0) (#125)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:24:01 PM EST

I'm just fucking with ya, Tong.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
tong. chinese. not filipino. you stupid kano (none / 0) (#127)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:29:21 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Lol (none / 0) (#128)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:33:29 PM EST

I'm actually laughing out loud here. The subject is not exaggeration.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
PURO KURAKOT BOBO KANO (none / 0) (#130)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:38:51 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Don't you have laundry to do? (none / 1) (#132)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 03:43:46 PM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
"Two Wongs Can Make It White" (none / 0) (#137)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 07:30:29 PM EST

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/04/18/MN109646.DTL

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Correct sir! (none / 1) (#139)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:07:55 PM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Honestly (none / 1) (#97)
by Sgt York on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:14:05 AM EST

if this place was 100% positive, I'd be long gone. I hate that crap. The main reason I started writing here was because of the negative feedback I saw people get; I saw it as a way to improve.

If something is poorly written, I get told about it. If it's a stupid topic, I get ridiculed for it. If it's good, I get vapid responses and a few positive comments. It's a reliable measure.

I'm not just tone deaf, I thrive in shit compost.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

same here (none / 0) (#100)
by circletimessquare on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:33:03 AM EST

but that means k5 is just a proving ground for the weird few who thrive on negativity

i'd much rather see it more positive and therefore more popular, which means turning down the shit factor

it used to be a great soapbox. now its just a place to practice your soapbox with bad crowds

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Guy's a cock (none / 0) (#157)
by ksandstr on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 08:34:25 AM EST

He's got an insipid little unique snowflake of a life, of which he keeps telling us all about in an equally insipid, condescending manner. Ladder logic! Embedded nineteen-eighties hardware!!!1 Rebuilding a Tandy microcomputer that runs on batteries! Surviving Katrina, like some 50,000 niggers, living to whine about it afterward! Golly gee whiz!

The main difference to the other snowflakes is that he's fourtysomething or fiftysomething, and thus more difficult to troll off the site -- lack of trying certainly doesn't explain his continued presence. Worst part is, some of the other unique-sensitives who used to remain way back when used to vote his shit up in the queue.

And despite the bit where some of the greatest roffles this site has ever known (i.e. the CYOAs), were indirectly spawned by his previous cloacal dumplings, he did create the fiction section. That is reason enough for my eternal rag^Whatr^Wpiss^W strong dislike.

Much like you actually, except that you're direly annoying for entirely different reasons, not the least of which being your irreverent regard for typography and layout which displays an acute disrespect for others' time.

Fin.
[ Parent ]

again (none / 0) (#158)
by circletimessquare on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 01:57:12 PM EST

of all of those complaints, i don't see those "crimes" rising above the kind of "crimes" i see plenty others commit here, hell the majority commit here

you're the cock, most others replying here are the cock

fuck you you double standard twatstain


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

This may well be true. (none / 0) (#159)
by ksandstr on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 05:28:23 PM EST

Localroger rises above (for what it's worth) the masses in that he combines so many of them in a single person, and then has the audacity to regard it as a good thing.

He'd be the trolls' troll if only he could shut up about it. Which he can't. This only enrages us further: wasted opportunity! Failure! ... only not, as it turns out.

He insults our unspoken ideals by his mere existence. In a way, K5 couldn't survive in its present form without him (or, possibly, even you).

Fin.
[ Parent ]

k5 is in decline (none / 0) (#160)
by circletimessquare on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 06:13:12 PM EST

because of the existence of the mindless negativity you represent

localroger posts content. CONTENT. that's the lifeblood of k5

i myself have stopped contribusting stories here because i'm sick of busting my ass writing a story and some asshole votes it down with "lol wut?"

that's the death of k5 right there

mindless negativity is the source of k5's decline. not localroger. not me. mindlessly negative assholes like you

localroger has personality issues? ok. so do i. but neither localroger nor my egos are so poverty stricken that we think the most pressing matter before us is tearing down other people

CONTENT matters

the egos of the authors? not so much

since so many assholes here think the author's ego si more important than the content, THAT'S the source of k5's decline: empty pointless navel gazing bullshit

so keep on with the inquisition against localroger. its so fucking useful. its so fucking important. YOU'RE THE REASON k5 SUCKS

fucking douchebag

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

See, now, that's your problem right there (none / 0) (#161)
by ksandstr on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 06:28:48 PM EST

Writing articles with intent of their making FP or even section. What hubris! That's not the way shit works here. If stuff by you or by localroger were voted up automatically, then what would the point of the moderation queue be? "Oh but I tried my best" shouldn't fly in grade school, much less on the intarbutts.

If you write a story that's supposed to be worth FP or section, then all it is worthy of is the dump. Or worse, slarshdot. (or HuSi, but that's kind of harsh already.) If you focus on the whoring, it'll show -- and ever since that linkwhoring epidemic, K5 has apparently despised whoring. For Jon Katz, we can go down the memory lane at the other site. For wordy heaps of steaming shit, there's ars technica.

This explains why I've not put even a first story in the queue, even though some of my diaries and comments would seem to merit that, judging by length. Perhaps with a little massaging here and there, padding out to make them flow better, more wordiness there so the points aren't as brutal and inscrutable.

But that would not be the K5 article that makes FP. Out of respect I don't even try; not because I'm afraid of failure (lol, K5 failure is almost like winning) but because I genuinely don't have anything to say with that kind of effort that wouldn't be adequately expressed in a snarky ol' comment.

Fin.
[ Parent ]

congratulations, you win (none / 0) (#162)
by circletimessquare on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 07:02:16 PM EST

enjoy your uninteresting insipid navel gazing

your vision of k5 is completely inferior to all of the other options you laid out

but you get your vision anyway, because the way k5 is set up, completely useless assholes like you win


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

<---------------- HuSi /nt (1.50 / 2) (#163)
by ksandstr on Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 09:02:50 AM EST



Fin.
[ Parent ]
what's all this (2.50 / 6) (#67)
by osm on Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 09:39:23 PM EST

about alligators with lasers mounted on their heads infesting kuro5hin?

--------
4thelulz.org

Sharks (3.00 / 3) (#84)
by rusty on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 09:16:32 AM EST

With alligators strapped to their asses, to cover their 6.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Are you serious? (2.66 / 3) (#75)
by Gord ca on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:36:01 AM EST

As I noted in my last diary (over a year ago), K5 used to be an awesome place to get new ideas and angles on things.

That would be circa 2002-3.

I keep K5 in my RSS reader for nostalgia nowdays.

I'd like to get back into posting online. I've been working on a blog. I know that K5 isn't the place to post this kind of thing any more. There's no point.

cries

If I'm attacking your idea, it's probably because I like it

I agree with you (3.00 / 4) (#92)
by Hiphopopotamus on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 10:13:56 AM EST

People who describe actions such as 'cries' should not post here.
_________________

I'm In LOVE!
[ Parent ]

A Comment from England (2.66 / 3) (#120)
by localroger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:17:21 PM EST

Lancaster, to be precise. It seems somebody thought I was important enough to pay me on rather short notice to fly across the Atlantic and put me up for a week to make sure their mechanical thingy works right.

There is no surer proof that this site has failed than that not one but two back to back attacks on me by the same stalker have hit the top spot, one a lame copypasta mod that doesn't make sense and isn't even funny and now this one which attempts a Robotslave-like reframing of an obvious point in such lame fashion that calling it out is almost comically redundant.

I seem to remember a Rusty who had a rather different vision for this site, more like the K5 of 2003-4 only getting bigger and better. Instead, at the very point when he needed to take Shirky's prescription and tighten access he did the very opposite. Thar ain't no gators thar mateys! (I was flying on Talk Like A Pirate Day, so humor me.)

Saying that K5 is something other than crap right now is rather like the practice of "retroactive trolling." See, it's not a failure, it's supposed to look this way. Yeah right.

Before K5, I used to write the occasional trunk essay mostly for my own amusement. I always write mostly for my own amusement. But after A Casino Odyssey I realized that other people did sometimes find my musings amusing, and I started writing some of them down that I might have passed on otherwise. That's how the Plant stories, all of Passages after the original, the Trinity story, and pretty much everything else I ever put up here came to be. There was a point when I had the idea, and before K5 I would have shrugged and thought cool but not worth it, but after K5 I thought about it a bit more and fleshed it out and maybe eventually wrote something.

I am back to pre-K5 mode. As for why I am still here, it is partly because of something none of you shitheads ever seem to figure out about me, which is that I am fascinated by negativity, death, violence, and destruction, and the trainwreck that K5 has become is a thing I can no more pull away from than I can remove rotten dot com from my favorites.

But that doesn't mean I will necessarily put much effort into it while it is in this state. As pretty much everyone else who ever contributed anything worthwhile has also apparently decided, for various reasons.

Two and a half years ago I promised my wife I'd find a way to build her a house that would be safe in "tornado alley." That started an odyssey every bit as fascinating to me as the casino based one, and every bit as illuminating.

Nowadays when that creative impulse strikes, I'm much more likely to head to the garage and try refining my methods. Using measurements and controls which most in the alternative housing movement don't bother with, I have made a true breakthrough in the use of paper/cement mixtures to make large structures. To give a sense of how great a breakthrough it is, I am seriously thinking of building a boat instead of a house as a demonstration project. It will be just as strong, about the same stiffness and weight, and one tenth the price of a similar vessel made of fiberglass foam laminate. You don't even want to know how much cheaper and stronger this method would be than conventional building construction.

There was once a time when I would have been sure of announcing my eventual success here. That seems unlikely now. There was once a time when K5 earned the attention of people with ideas like mine. There was once a time when Rusty proudly said he was glad to have us and hoped to grow our ranks.

Meanwhile, I think I will have another Guinness.

And that is what is so great about the internet. It enables pompous blowhards to connect with other pompous blowhards in a vast circle jerk of pomposity

Garage experiments FTW! (none / 0) (#136)
by Corwin06 on Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 07:12:49 PM EST

No, seriously. I want to know about that. I'm not into construcion, but I'm not a professional blackjack player either (hopefully soon an industrial computers guy though) and I'm curious enough that I want to know...

It would get trashed in the queue? So what, mail it to rusty, he could put it up near MOPI. Your stories are half the reasons I read k5.

Yeah, aspie lunatics can get interested by random things like well-written essays about plants, casinos and the history of the education system.

... how much do I sound like a fanboi now? Not the intent. But, yeah, I happen to think that you do write well, especially on interesting, near-random topics. Like CTS said - there are lots of trolls with a dim one-synapse bulb that only ever goes 'LOL WUT' in here... but please go on writing interesting stff! SOME people here have enough brains left to appreciate those.

"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
--circletimessquare
[ Parent ]
I'll publish it somewhere (none / 0) (#144)
by localroger on Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 02:41:54 AM EST

If not here, when I do I will mention it here.

And that is what is so great about the internet. It enables pompous blowhards to connect with other pompous blowhards in a vast circle jerk of pomposity
[ Parent ]
I like the Slashdot part (none / 1) (#151)
by 7h3647h32in6 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 01:21:02 PM EST

I've figured out a pretty clean cut way to get 5's:

When a new story comes out, post:

FTA: "<insert arbitrary comment>"
<enter>
<enter>

<write a bunch of bullshit that is somewhat related>

It's easy as that. Now when I get bored, I farm mod points using that formula and downvote all of the other bullshit 5'd posts.

K5 is truly incredible.

Reading, the other white meat. (none / 1) (#153)
by conner_bw on Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 03:28:16 PM EST

Before TV, more people listened to radio, before radio you had reading... but not more.

Problem with the internet, and computers in general, is that up until very recently you had a television with words on it. That attracted a certain crowd. Now you have the YouTV and everybody's not so secret porn stash. Thus, now you get a crowd of people who don't give a rats ass about reading what anyone is writing.

Furthermore, those that have been all up on this shitpile since back in the day, and aren't hiding out in Gnu Mailman mailing lists, have evolved their writing style to be abhorrent in an effort to entice people to read. Otherwise, why wouldn't people just skim it? Do you really think you'd be dropping dick jokes on a forum in 98 without looking like a total fucktard? No, it was a gradual collective devolution mixed in with an onslaught of newbies who write to the web with their thumbs on a phone, 255 character limit.

I agree that K5 is interesting, I'm still here, I've been here all along. But other than to announce personal projects in my diary which get a good lollercoaster beat down from various trolls. Oh, and that one time I wrote a front page article on trackers, I'm not part of the community. I read and enjoy, some of the funniest stuff along side the weirdest, but I don't know any of you personally. And do I want to?

The article holds some truths to be self-evident. I agree with a lot of the article. But the 7-11 analogy in the fierce debate above this reply somewhere is on point. The site is a point of leisure, not a point of reference.

Some guard dogs protect junk yards, not everyone lives in a castle.

Youtube Explained (none / 0) (#156)
by localman on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 02:24:21 PM EST

I noticed early on that youtube has about the worst comments and discussion of any site I'd ever visited.  XKCD spoofed it, and this article mentioned it too.

But because I'm a mental boob, I didn't realize until just now why it should be so much worse than any other site.  But your post has pointed it out and made it obvious: it's because it attracts people who don't read.  That's all it is.

Mystery solved.  Thank you.

[ Parent ]

More like (none / 1) (#155)
by garote on Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 05:06:26 PM EST

This place is a castle made out of chicken scraps, and the alligators in the moat are fat and multiplying.

And someone would pay $5 for this? (none / 1) (#164)
by lukme on Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 02:23:52 PM EST

I am flabbergasted this site would be worth more than free. Your arguments about hazing are completely off base, in that all hazing will do is to actively diminish the diversity of ideas to a minimum. The metaphor of a castle guarded by alligators was a nice hook for this article, however, the actual metaphor should be the mound of dirt guarded by a quagmire with gnats and leaches (sounds like most of Maine - if you disagree with me, hike Katahdin in June). At this point, I am agreeing with localroger, that is, I will have another guinness.


-----------------------------------
It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
please kill yourself (none / 1) (#166)
by manjal on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 11:26:18 AM EST

with your own penis! lol!


Delicious, delicious irony | 166 comments (145 topical, 21 editorial, 0 hidden)
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