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Juno and You: We Own You

By botono9 in MLP
Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 05:30:51 PM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)

Juno is a free/low-cost internet service provider. As with any "free" deal, there are strings attached.

Section 2.5 of Juno's service agreement takes some big steps in the movement to strip computer users of any semblance of rights.

Some of the key points are as follows:

Juno has the right to:

  • Download distributed computing software to your computer without notice
  • Use above software to run computations for commercial customers of Juno
  • Require you to leave your computer on 24/7
  • Replace your screen-saver can be replaced with a Juno advertisement screen-saver
  • Initiate a dial-up connection to trasmit calculation data if you are not connected
  • Obligatory "you no reverse engineer our stuff"
  • Any violation of the above can lead to termination of service
Of course, Juno is not responsible for any charges incurred by leaving your computer on all day and night or automatically dialing up without your knowledge. This just rubs me the wrong way. But, as usual, if you don't like it go somewhere else for service. So, I urge any Juno users out there to review this and decide if free internet is worth this amount of invasion.


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Juno and You: We Own You | 23 comments (15 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
How about an upfront deal... (3.85 / 7) (#3)
by Giant Space Hamster on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 12:38:28 PM EST

What if Juno offered Internet access in return for 100 hours of computing time (giving you control to turn on/off the computing app)?

Would anyone here take this offer?


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
Maybe. (none / 0) (#23)
by ghjm on Sun Feb 04, 2001 at 10:42:06 PM EST

God help them if they expect their code to run on random people's boxes unmodified and unexamined, whatever their terms of service might say. I might do the internet access for cycles trade, but I sure as hell wouldn't run a process I cared about on their "virtual supercomputer."


[ Parent ]
So what? (4.00 / 11) (#5)
by Seumas on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 12:39:34 PM EST

If your privacy isn't worth $15/mo for a real ISP, then deal with it. There's nothing worse than a bunch of ungrateful people mooching off someone and then complaining about the terms that the moochee sets.
I just read K5 for the articles.
Yes, but (4.50 / 2) (#21)
by BehTong on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 05:31:11 PM EST

I agree with you on principle, but does that mean that it's OK for an ISP to screw over customers who don't know any better? This is like telling refugees, you have to work as slaves in labor camp otherwise you're out of the country. I'm not saying that we should "shelter" every idiot out there, but that doesn't mean it's OK to behave like that.

Beh Tong Kah Beh Si!
[ Parent ]

Juno begins the death spiral (4.75 / 8) (#7)
by Anonymous 242 on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 12:54:31 PM EST

I used Juno for all of two weeks. Before I used Juno, I used Netzero. Before Netzero, I used Freewwweb. Freewwweb went bankrupt several months ago, which is what prompted the change to Netzero.

Netzero wasn't real fast (faster than AOL, but that's not saying much), but their ads were palatable and service was acceptable. Then, Netzero decided that anyone that used their service over a certain number of hours per month would have to pay. What's the point in watching their ads and letting their bots track my web use if I have to pay $4 less per month than it would take to buy ad-free ISP time from a local place?.

So I tried Juno. Blech. After two days, my wife used up all of her hours for the month and was only allowed to log on after 4 in the morning. Good grief. How is she going to look at the ads if she isn't even allowed to connect?

I recall reading somewhere that Juno will likely run out of money sometime in March. (Anyone recall the name of web site that uses dot com SEC filings to predict when they will run out of operating capital?) This is likely a last-ditch effort to try and get some money flowing.

Once Juno is out, will there be any free nationwide ISPs in the US other than Netzero? Not that it matters to me anymore. I've moved over to a pleasant little company named ISOC. $14 for month if I pay for the year in advance. And I decide to go DSL, I can keep them for my ISP.

fair exchange (3.57 / 7) (#9)
by Delirium on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 01:07:12 PM EST

I don't see the problem. They're giving you free internet access in return for access to certain aspects of your computer, including the right to display advertising on your computer and the right to use your spare cycles for distributed computing projects. If you don't like these conditions they place on their free service, don't accept them; pay $15/month for a non-free ISP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... (1.85 / 7) (#11)
by GreenCrackBaby on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 01:43:14 PM EST

doesn't SETI@home also make use of your computer's spare cycles? People don't see a problem with it, how is this any different? Granted, you have to watch ads (common to all free internet access), but otherwise is it really a big deal?

SETI@home (4.50 / 2) (#12)
by ism on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 02:09:29 PM EST

Although it's a contract, many people just don't fully read service agreements before agreeing to them. Based on that logic, some people feel putting evil things in a service agreement is sneaky and underhanded. Thus, the furor.

SETI, on the other hand, is up front. The conditions are explicit: You get the chance (if you can even call it that) of finding the WOW signal, in exchange for your computational time. More importantly, there is the added bonus of a penis size competition.

Juno is not a penis size competition, hence, it is unethical.

[ Parent ]

It's called a volunteer (4.50 / 2) (#14)
by Dakkon on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 02:53:16 PM EST

doesn't SETI@home also make use of your computer's spare cycles? People don't see a problem with it, how is this any different?

Um.... because it's voluntary? If I don't want to donate cycles to SETI all I have to do is stop running the software. Juno meanwhile is saying that if you use our service, we have the right to force any advertisements on you that we choose, and we have the right to run any distributed software on your computer we may choose. This in return for providing you with a free email service.

Meanwhile, with SETI, it is we who are providing a service to them, not the other way around.


[ Parent ]
No one is putting a gun to your head (4.00 / 3) (#15)
by GreenCrackBaby on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 03:26:46 PM EST

Um.... because it's voluntary?

And Juno isn't? I realize that most people don't read terms of service or similar junk, but they aren't hiding this fact, nor are they forcing you to use their service.

All I was trying to point out is that this plan is really doing no different than the SETI project (ie. using your spare CPU cycles). You make the concious decision to install the SETI stuff, just like you make the concious decision to install the Juno stuff. No one is forcing you to do either.

Besides, if you really wanted to screw with Juno couldn't you just run the SETI stuff all the time?

[ Parent ]

The difference is (4.00 / 2) (#19)
by aphrael on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 05:13:15 PM EST

with SETI you know, sort of, what your computer is being used for. with Juno, *they* decide to what purpose my cycles are being diverted.

[ Parent ]
My objection... (4.00 / 1) (#20)
by Anonymous 6522 on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 05:23:44 PM EST

With Seti@home they say, "Hey, we've got this really cool program that will process radio telescope data on your home computer and search for aliens."

While Juno says, "We grant ourselves the right to run whatever we damn well please on your computer. We could decide to run a simulation to determine the best possible way to get you addicted to crack. Your only option is to stop using the service, but we won't tell you what kind of computations you're running so you can't tell if you object."

My big grip with this is that most people won't know whats going on, and most likely Juno will try to make it difficult for you to find out what they're doing with your computer. I know enough not to use Juno, but do my parents?

I can only hope there is a big backlash and Juno's stock tanks. Then they'd ether listen or go out of buisness.

[ Parent ]

With Seti@Home & dnet... (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by Anonymous 6522 on Fri Feb 02, 2001 at 05:02:10 PM EST

* You decide what client you run and when you want to run it.

* You get to decide have many cycles it uses up.

* You get to turn your computer off when you want to.

* You get to decide when your modem connect.

* etc, etc, etc

I do realize that they are offering a free service, and you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but this basically gives them the right to run whatever programs they want to on your computer. Inexperienced users won't undersand the risks of allowing Juno to do stuff like this, and probably won't switch to something more sane (and safe), unless the ad screensaver gets too annoying.

This could include a program to monitor what you do on you computer, compute a summary, and send it back to Juno. I would think a DDOS client would fall under the distribued computing too (but I doubt Juno would put one of these on your computer, but what if a hacker did while pretending to be the Juno server?) Having something like this just makes your computer less secure.

[ Parent ]

It's also reported on Cryptome.org (none / 0) (#22)
by rajivvarma on Sat Feb 03, 2001 at 10:08:02 PM EST


Cryptome.org reports this as well at this link.
Rajiv Varma
Mirror of DeCSS.

[ Parent ]
Juno and You: We Own You | 23 comments (15 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
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