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Komodo Beta 1.1 released

By pwhysall in MLP
Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 03:45:35 PM EST
Tags: Technology (all tags)
Technology

So, finally the talking is over and the code gets to speak.

ActiveState have released Windows and Linux beta copies of their Komodo IDE.

It enables you to edit Perl, Python, XML, JavaScript and HTML in a syntax sensitive editor.

Big deal.

The interesting part about this tool is that it's powered by Mozilla.


Windows users will need to obtain a copy of ActivePerl and ActivePython.

The Linux version has some limited debugging ability -- when the remote debugger is finished, this will be a nifty feature.

Good news for budding scripters? Or should we all stick with XEmacs?

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Poll
Favourite IDE
o XTerm + vi 36%
o (X)Emacs 25%
o Nedit 3%
o Borland ($LINGO)Builder 5%
o VisualAge For $LINGO 0%
o XWPE 0%
o Visual Studio 6%
o Fill in your favourite here 22%

Votes: 129
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o ActiveStat e
o Komodo IDE
o Mozilla
o ActivePerl
o ActivePyth on
o Also by pwhysall


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Komodo Beta 1.1 released | 26 comments (22 topical, 4 editorial, 0 hidden)
Favorite IDE (2.00 / 3) (#1)
by ucblockhead on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:03:09 PM EST

My favorite IDE would be Visual Studio in a second if it had decent vi emulation and wasn't buggy...
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
Why? (none / 0) (#2)
by pwhysall on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:07:31 PM EST

I find the Visual Studio IDE to be really quite cluttered and confusing. If only there was a VisualAge for Perl...
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]
Why... (none / 0) (#16)
by ucblockhead on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 01:38:01 PM EST

It is a matter of taste, mostly. Visual Studio has the best class browser that I've seen, and the autocompletion is nice. (Komodo doesn't do much for me, as I'm a C/C++ guy.)

The editor sucks, though, and there are some very annoying bugs.

Few other IDEs have been good enough to make me abandon the old vi/bash combo.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
I do my html/php development at the console (3.25 / 4) (#5)
by itsbruce on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:21:41 PM EST

using Vim to write it and w3m to test it. Find that far less distracting.

Code in Mozilla? Great, now your PC can slow to a halt or crash while you're writing the code, a real bonus for all those who previously had to wait until they ran it.


--

It is impolite to tell a man who is carrying you on his shoulders that his head smells.
Amen! (none / 0) (#12)
by ramses0 on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:50:15 PM EST

Especially back about 6 months ago when Mozilla was evil and would load cached documents from 3 days ago which had no bearing on the current state of the project.

Lynx is the best browser to use (in my experience) if you need to make sure that something (especially avoiding cookie and cache issues) is working. I haven't used w3m, so I can't compare it specifically, but console web development is a nice tool.

Nowadays, the Netscape 0.6 .. I mean Netscape 6 release has much replaced Netscape 4.7 as my most used browser. Take a look at the Opera browser... it looks like I'm going to like it a lot, but it's still got quite a few crash-bugs. After those are ironed out, I'll definitely buy it.

/me reminds people that the still need to support linux companies when they deserve it, and Opera appears to deserve it from me.

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]

Poll (none / 0) (#6)
by fvw on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:23:25 PM EST

(x)jed with emacs keybindings....

I wonder if this is what I have been looking for (4.33 / 3) (#9)
by Anonymous 242 on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:40:59 PM EST

My biggest complaint about syntax highlighting is that I've yet to find an editor that properly handles JavaScript embedded within html. Virtually every editor I've seen can do JavaScript and HTML, but not JavaScript within HTML. Of course, I haven't exactly been looking very hard.

As an aside, it will interesting to see how much of a splash a Windows oriented company like ActiveState will make in the Linux market. I wonder how many windowisms are in the Linux Technology Preview. (I did notice that the beta is only for Windows. The Linux release is still in tech preview status.)

I would be downloading this as I type, but the license wasn't mentioned on the product page. Is this issued under a free license? A time-expiry demo?



Not Free, but free. (4.00 / 2) (#11)
by pwhysall on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:48:47 PM EST

In message 3A455653, Ken Simpson says this:
The final release of Komodo for both Linux and Windows will be free for educational and personal use. You will have to pay a licensing fee to use Komodo for commercial purposes.
How this hangs together with their use of the Mozilla code, I don't know.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]
If its gratis, I might take a gander (4.00 / 1) (#14)
by Anonymous 242 on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 01:06:07 PM EST

I'm not a libre only software nazi. I just am not willing to spend my time dorking around with a time-limited demo. I also think that free for personal/educational, fee for commercial use is one of the better licensing options available (short of releasing code).

If this can parse Javascript embedded within html and have both the html and JavaScript color coded by syntax properly, I will be quite the happy camper.



[ Parent ]
mmm-mode for emacs (4.00 / 1) (#20)
by artemb on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 07:18:10 PM EST

There's 'mmm-mode' package for Emacs that specifically targets the issue you've described - one language embedded within another. Among other things mmm-mode supports JavaScript-within-HTML.

You can get it from the SourceForge... http://mmm-mode.sourceforge.net/

[ Parent ]

Good poll, i enjoy fill in answers. (3.00 / 1) (#10)
by atrodo on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:47:51 PM EST

As for my fill in, i would have to list the IDE's i use for my diffrant projects. Anything 32-bit C related: Rhide for DJGPP. Any 32-bit Pascal related: FP for FreePascal. 16-Bit Pascal: Turbo Pascal from Borland. ASM: edit from DOS. For everything else that syntax highlighting would be good for: gvim.

-Jon Gentle(atrodo@geocities.com)

Platform / Language dependent (4.00 / 1) (#13)
by RadiantMatrix on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 12:52:43 PM EST

I voted for XTerm+vi (in reality, I use aterm) simply because that ends up being what I use most - I like vim for Perl and Perl is my current passion.

However, I use Emacs (or [x]jed) for email, C, and the occasional HTML. And, if I'm using MS-Win, I lean heavily to UltraEdit 32: it's not a UNIX editor, but it has most of the features I require.
--
I'm not going out with a "meh". I plan to live, dammit. [ZorbaTHut]

Hang on a tick... (4.50 / 2) (#15)
by kaemaril on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 01:29:17 PM EST

What, no PHP? That's a bit of an oversight, isn't it?


Why, yes, I am being sarcastic. Why do you ask?


My favorite IDE (2.50 / 2) (#17)
by BehTong on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 03:25:47 PM EST

I was about to say, where's the PICO option???

But seriously, my IDE is xterm and aXe (an editor based on XEdit). Does anyone else here share my tastes for the simplest possible editing interface? I find vi (and Emacs for that matter) to be a pain because I hate keeping track of which mode I'm in, and having to switch modes just to type stuff seems really awkward to me. Pico is nice, but lacks important features, which makes it less than desirable. I like aXe because it's almost pico-like, but lets you use multiple windows, and is more configurable. But I like to keep the editor separate from the compiler and debugger, thank you very much. Yes, there are advantages to integration, but I suppose I've learnt it the other way so I don't feel comfortable being in an integrated environment.

As an aside, my editor preferences could be biased because my first favorite text-editor was the old Norton Editor, which I don't think exists anymore. That was one of the smallest DOS programs that actually did something useful. I call this the F/S ratio -- the functionality to size ratio :-)

Beh Tong Kah Beh Si!

similar (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by mikpos on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 04:48:26 PM EST

Probably a "generic text editor" option would have best, rather than singling out vi and emacs, since there are so many different tex editors out there. Unless I'm working with GNUStep (which is very rare), I do all my coding in Linux console. One console for joe (which can edit multiple files; I assume it's similar to aXe), one console for make and various file management tasks, and possibly one console for gdb.

Personally I think Unix is a great IDE (or maybe it's a UDE? Does that term exist?); I don't know why people are trying to put IDEs on top of it. Hm except for RAD GUI apps, I guess: IDEs are good for that.

[ Parent ]

Is this an acid test? (none / 0) (#18)
by pwhysall on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 04:05:26 PM EST

For Mozilla as an application framework, that is.

The Windows version (the one I've been able to play with so far) seems to be pretty snappy and quite stable - it hasn't crashed yet.

I guess what remains to be seen is how well this state of affairs persists as the developers start adding some really meaty functionality to the system.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown

The Komodo/Python Experience.. (2.00 / 1) (#21)
by Chiron on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 07:33:57 PM EST

Using Komodo with Python has been fairly pleasurable under Win32. The interface responds somewhat faster than the current nightly Mozilla builds, indicating that ActiveState has carefully honed its chrome to be simple and efficient. This is Beta software, however, and there are quite a few rough edges.

The most glaring problem is Komodo's autocompletion feature. Komodo is smart enough to recognize the access of an object's attribute, and to provide autocompletion once you refer to this attribute again, but the flaw is that it is very aggressive, the window maintaining itself on screen until you hit enter, causing all subsequent typing to be undone, and replaced with the selected item, or escape, which does away with the window. This is very painful if you aren't paying attention, and should disengage when it encounters any character that is illegal as an identifier in Python, and should use TAB and not return as the accept delimiter.

Another annoyance is the color scheme of Komodo's syntax hilighting. Beige on white is a low contrast color selection, and makes it difficult to read with tired eyes.

There are several other badly thought out points in the interface, including windows that intrude too much on the workspace, and an excruciatingly slow time to launch the interpreter, considering that Python, and Perl, are interpreted languages.

But, beyond these annoyances, Komodo is probably the most feature complete and stable of the Python IDEs at the moment. If you also consider the fact that ActiveState has also released a Python binding for the Mozilla XPCOM component architecture, it would appear that they integrate Python applications with Mozilla's various cross-platform libraries.

Just what we need. ANOTHER GUI library for Python. ;) How many libs do we need to kill tkinter?

Fave Editor (none / 0) (#22)
by Toojays on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 08:18:45 PM EST

I used KDE's "Advanced Editor" for the first time last night, just to update some HTML, and I found it extremely enjoyable to use, once I figured out how to make the font bigger. (You have to do it in the KDE control centre rather than from within the application.) My personal preference is for a text editor with syntax highlighting rather than a full blown IDE.

Since I finally learnt how to use vi properly last year, going to a non-modal editor like the KDE one does seem like a step down in some ways though. Like to delete an HTML paragraph in vi I would do something like "escape-3-d-d", whereas in the prettier but less brutal editors like Advanced Editor (I think it might actually be called kwrite) I have to select all the text with the mouse and hit delete.

As an aside to this aside, having two monitors to do this stuff on is fantastic. I went to a dual head setup last month, and being able to edit a web page on one monitor and see how it renders on the other is so much more convenient than minimising the browser everytime I want to change something. The same goes for having library documentation open on one monitor and a source code window on the other.



Hear hear (3.00 / 1) (#24)
by rusty on Tue Feb 06, 2001 at 06:06:00 AM EST

My personal preference is for a text editor with syntax highlighting rather than a full blown IDE.

Have you tried Nedit? Yes, incessantly promoting Nedit is my one-man mission to save the world. Anyway, it's just that-- a great text editor with good syntax highlighting (and a few other features you never knew you needed till you had them). Like Kwrite, it's more pointy-clicky oriented than keybinding oriented, but it has some powerful keybinding and macro capabilities, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone's whipped up a set of accelerators that vi people would like.

I went to a dual head setup last month, and being able to edit a web page on one monitor and see how it renders on the other is so much more convenient than minimising the browser everytime I want to change something. The same goes for having library documentation open on one monitor and a source code window on the other.

I haven't yet got the funds to add another monitor, but I use multiple desktops for much the same effect. When I really get going, I've been known to use as many as 8 virtual desktops simultaneously. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

painful to use (none / 0) (#23)
by Delirium on Mon Feb 05, 2001 at 08:27:33 PM EST

Komodo serves as a really good example of just how much bloat Mozilla has in its application framework system. The skinnable UI significantly slows down responsiveness as well.

Just to compare, I compared Komodo to Borland C++ Builder and Microsoft Visual Studio (both BC++B and MSVS are enourmous bloated programs). Komodo ran the slowest of the three, to the point of being nearly unusable on my Pentium2 266mhz with 96mb RAM. Simple opening a menu has a significant lag, and creating a new project takes 3-5 seconds, during which the UI is completely unresponsive.

So while it looks useful, it's simply so slow and bloated that it's painful to use.

Problems with the Linux Tech Preview (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous 242 on Tue Feb 06, 2001 at 09:00:47 PM EST

First of all, there is a wee bit of the problem with the license. After downloading the twenty some MB Linux Technology Preview over my 56K modem, I fed the tar ball into GNU tar and read this in the LICENSE.txt file:
3. Term. This Beta License is effective until February 1, 2001 (the "Term") and will automatically terminated at 12:00 a.m. (midnight) on such date.

Second, they have "known issues" with the "latest" release of Debian. The documentation doesn't go into any detail as to what those issues are or which release of Debian is considered to be the "latest."

Komodo won't start up at all for me. I don't know whether this is due to the unknown "known issues" with Debian or due to the beta license expiring.

This is really too bad. I was looking forward to trying this out.



Now That Sucks (none / 0) (#26)
by pwhysall on Wed Feb 07, 2001 at 08:15:38 AM EST

I'm really sorry - I've only got the Windows version, which is an actual Beta release and I wouldn't have recommended it if this was something I had been aware of.

:-(
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

Komodo Beta 1.1 released | 26 comments (22 topical, 4 editorial, 0 hidden)
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