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SSP and A Place to Grow

By ikarus in MLP
Thu Mar 01, 2001 at 07:19:48 PM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)
Internet

There have been a growing number of posts lately that deal with, in some fashion, the promotion of a site someone has developed. I find this a rather interesting phenomenon. One which I think can be easily explained: There exists no effective way to promote one's endeavors on the internet.


These posts lead me to believe that I'm not the only person in the position of having created "interesting" sites with no way to get the word out, so to speak. Once you've developed a site how do you let people know about it? How do you attract a user base? How do you get feedback on what you've done?

There was an interesting article posted a while back about SSP, or shameless self promotion. SSP seems to be the method most often employed to garner interest, and in some perhaps immeasurable form is effective. Aside from SSP though, it seems that the only other alternative is to submit an article to a place like k5 or /. and hope it gets posted. Not only does this tread a fine line between spamming and informing, but it's also a shame, because I'm sure there are great projects that simply go unnoticed or forgotten.

For example, CanonicalTomes.org was, in my opinion, a great idea, but after it's initial post here on k5, I'd be willing to wager that traffic has dropped and it's slipped to the back people's minds. Also interesting to notice is the constructive feedback that was generated by that post. I'm sure CanonicalTomes.org creator found that feedback to be quite useful and gratifying because in some sense it helped to validate the time and effort he put into the site.

It would be nice if there were a place, and even a community, in which people could promote themselves without shame, and get valuable feedback from users. A place that was both an incubation chamber, and a vehicle for promoting. Essentially, a site about sites.

So now I lead the article to an obvious conclusion:

I spent a little time last week, and started, what I hope will become the place I've just described above: kakkune.com. It's a place geared towards people with ideas in development. A vehicle to drum up interest and a place get feedback. People can create projects and make a variety of posts regarding them and get feedback from other users. Think freshmeat crossed with k5, focussed on the development of sites, not software.

I tend to believe that the k5 community is a creative and productive one, and I'd be interested in seeing what other people are up to, and what's up and coming. So, if you're working on something I encourage you to pay a visit, add your project and make a post. Hopefully, a community of feedback and ideas will develop, and the "barrier to entry" for a site on the internet will get a little easier to cross.

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SSP and A Place to Grow | 9 comments (8 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
The way I would like to see SSP on k5 (4.27 / 11) (#1)
by Anonymous 242 on Thu Mar 01, 2001 at 12:39:53 PM EST

I'd like to see SSP occur on k5 in the way of white papers describing a technical or cultural challenge to overcome and the method by which the object being promoted overcomes (or fails to overcome) that challenge.

In other words, if someone comes by and says Look at my cool web site, chances are I won't be interested.

OTOH, if someone comes by and says here is a problem and here is how I attempted/am attempting to overcome it and this is how it is working/failing. I might be interested.

Promotion for promotion's sake ought to get left at the virtual door. If promotion of a site also entails a detailed analysis of solving a problem, I might be interested in discussing the implementation. The best SSP is the type that can be condensed and distilled into an article that is interesting to read even if I am not at all interested in the object of SSP. The way that the problems are solved in the creation/implementation of the object of SSP might very well be interesting even if the object of SSP itself bores me to tears.

I agree (none / 0) (#8)
by micco on Fri Mar 02, 2001 at 10:30:42 AM EST

I think K5 would make a great forum for discussing implementation details of planned projects. In every project, you start with a general problem to solve and the general solution may be obvious, but there are lots of details for which there is no "right" or "wrong" answer which greatly affect the final outcome.

Taking K5 as an example, Rusty had to make a lot of decisions like topic areas, login requirements, rating systems, etc. Of course, he did everything right the first time, but many of us struggle with these decisions. You'd still have to be willing to evolve and respond to ongoing feedback, but having open discussions about alternatives early in the project helps you do things right the first time.

In many projects, I drive ahead implementing what I think is best and end up making substantial changes after alpha- and beta-test users provide feedback. I often don't seek feedback on un-implemented plans because my pool of testers is very good at picking things apart and seeing where they break, but they're less willing to do "conceptual testing" where they think about how something might be done and what the consequences and alternatives are. With a larger pool of "testers" like K5 has, the odds are good that many readers will have already considered and implemented the things you're considering and can provide discussion based on experience.

I can't tell you how many sites I've seen fail because of a minor implementation detail. Maybe they require a registration/login for something users aren't willing to register for. Maybe their detailed site map doesn't really tell you where things are. Maybe they just don't make it clear what they do. In any case, many of them "fix" the problem after initial feedback but by that time they've already had their 15 minutes of fame. I've already looked and moved on, and I'll never even know they finally got around to doing it right. If we had a forum for discussing these things pre-release, a lot of valuable projects might be able to shine for that critical first impression.

[ Parent ]

Promotion (none / 0) (#9)
by Nitesurfer on Tue May 22, 2001 at 12:54:16 PM EST

Who does a Promotion? Normally it is someone who stands to gain something. Does that mean that everyone who promotes is shameless.

I fully support the concept of Kakkune....

Rock on!!!!!


David Byrd

CEO --- Twenty First Century Technologies, Inc.
Home of the Nite-Surfer Illuminated Keyboard

[ Parent ]
SSP (3.00 / 1) (#2)
by Refrag on Thu Mar 01, 2001 at 02:40:23 PM EST

Can't MLP be used for SSP?

Refrag

Kuro5hin: ...and culture, from the trenches

Work in Progress versus Mindless Propogation (none / 0) (#4)
by Pedro Picasso on Thu Mar 01, 2001 at 05:17:15 PM EST

I really like the idea of having a specific MLP site that focuses toward perfecting one's own sites.
I feel embarrassed posting my own stuff to things like MLP or even using a link to it as my sig file.
  1. self-promotion is often frowned upon
  2. my sites aren't done yet
  3. when exactly does it become spam?
  4. buy my shirts
K5's MLP is nice, but I would love a place to show off and sharpen what I have so far. Besides, I'm always looking around for neat new sites, and they're not always easy to find. I think this would be a more than worthwhile service.


-the Pedro Picasso

Cult of the Flaky Hardware
[ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) | kakkune.com ]
[ Parent ]
Comment about kakkune.com (none / 0) (#5)
by tnt on Fri Mar 02, 2001 at 01:08:53 AM EST

(This comment is about your site.)

Does your login process (for kaakune.com) work? I joined (with user name tnt... of course). But I can't log in.

(The irony is that your site is the place to discuss this,... being about websites,... but I can't log in. It's kinda funny :-)    )



--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

login problem (none / 0) (#6)
by ikarus on Fri Mar 02, 2001 at 03:02:50 AM EST

tnt:

according to the db, your account (tnt) doesn't exist. i'm not sure what went wrong, i did some testing and all the account creation and login functions appear to be working. you don't need to have cookies on to create an account, but you do need to have them on to log in. all i can say is sorry, and please try again. let me know if it still doesn't work.

[ Parent ]
I tried it again... still doesn't work :-( (none / 0) (#7)
by tnt on Fri Mar 02, 2001 at 10:26:14 AM EST

I tried again (twice), but it still does not work.

I have cookies turned on, but it doesn't seem to work. These last two times trying it, I tried it using Netscape Communicator 4.75 on Redhat Linux 7.0. (I think the first time was using the same version of the browser also.) [Maybe it is a browser problem?]

Do you have a `validation' function for the user name being choosen? (Could that be causing some kind of problem.) Or maybe, are you `validating' the `form' of the e-mail address? (Would an e-mail address with a Canadian domain -- .ca -- pass the validation?) Is there any kind of `form' that the password must conform to? (Maybe that's the problem.)

If all else fails,... and I'm the only one having the problem. Then maybe you could just create the account for me. And e-mail me the password. (The e-mail I want to use, is the same one I am using here. Just in case you don't notice, my e-mail address that you see here is a bit mangled [to prevent spam],... just remove the spaces.)



--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]
SSP and A Place to Grow | 9 comments (8 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
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