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Dodging bullets at school

By wiredog in MLP
Fri Mar 30, 2001 at 05:50:57 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)

The assault of the experts continued today on the Today Show where one of the guests was Bob Stuber who was talking about how kids can dodge (literally!) bullets at school. Read all about in the Rough Draft by Joel Achenbach.


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Dodging bullets at school | 30 comments (18 topical, 12 editorial, 0 hidden)
More tips (4.85 / 14) (#2)
by 0xdeadbeef on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 02:23:21 PM EST

You laugh, but his tips are very effective.

Hopping up and down is also useful, but only against rockets, and then only as an attacking maneuver. Your hang time will make you a sitting duck in retreat. Ditto for jump pads and the rail gun.

Doesn't get any better than this... (3.66 / 3) (#6)
by Luke Francl on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 03:12:59 PM EST

I love:

When looking outside of a room, it is extremely important to avoid presenting a large target.


Great for surviving high school or a quick pick up game of Q3A.

[ Parent ]
one word: (2.00 / 2) (#8)
by spacejack on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 04:19:58 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Also (2.50 / 2) (#10)
by Elendale on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 05:00:33 PM EST

Don't forget that its good to turn corners by walking sideways. Also: stealth is your friend!


When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.

[ Parent ]
If I remember correctly (3.00 / 2) (#13)
by weirdling on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 07:14:08 PM EST

You can even slide side-to-side in midjump, which is *very* hard for rockets to track, but if you're in a gunfight, running straight at the person while kicking seems to result in the most damage on target...

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
[ Parent ]
Q3A as a training tool (3.00 / 1) (#22)
by szap on Wed Mar 28, 2001 at 12:23:15 AM EST

I demand Q3A as a VR survivor training tool! Every one should spend some time practicing: this is as important as fire (and earthquake) drills! Lobby your school today!

Counting the days till the http://www.escapequake.com/ parody comes out...

[ Parent ]

Parent vs. everybody else (3.33 / 3) (#7)
by tympanic on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 04:14:12 PM EST

I think the site goes a little overboard on the school shooting thing, but I did see one very important lesson. The parents need to get involved with their children's lives. It's nice, for a change, to see someone not blaming everyone but the parents for a child's problems.

"I've noticed success tends to mean making sure people's expectations are low and then exceeding them" -David Simpson

It's good to see some responsibility. (4.00 / 5) (#11)
by Sanction on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 06:34:27 PM EST

It's nice to see some people actually dealing with these problems rather than just trying to pretend that we can pass some laws and pretend they'll go away. This is no different than teaching your kids to not go with strangers, and to run away and scream if someone tries to grab them. No matter what we try, these things will still happen, and spending half an hour teaching your children how to react if someone starts shooting may save their lives.

I'm more concerned by people who constantly make fun of anyone who tries to take steps to protect themselves from problems, preferring themselves to let "Big Brother" protect them. The police can't stop everything, best to have a basic understanding of what to do if you are a victim. My daughters know what to do if someone approaches them, if there is a fire, if one of their parents is hurt, and what to do if someone breaks in to our house. It's not being extreme, it is just facing the fact that sometimes you have to face dangers alone, and if you know how to deal with them, you're a lot more likely to come out alive.

I can either stay in and be annoying or go out and be stupid. The choice is yours.
This isn't parents teaching kids to be safe (4.00 / 1) (#20)
by ZanThrax on Tue Mar 27, 2001 at 12:08:25 PM EST

this is a company trying to scare the living shit out of parents over something that isn't a real threat, merely a ratings bonanza for the local news, so that they can sell videos with helpful ideas like zigzagging to avoid bullets and using backpacks as makeshift body armour.

Before flying off the handle over the suggestion that your a cocksucker, be sure that you do not, in fact, have a cock in your mouth.
[ Parent ]

News coverage (4.42 / 7) (#17)
by YelM3 on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 10:38:31 PM EST

I live in San Diego, where the two most recent school shootings have occurred, only two weeks apart.

I've seen the media (especially local news) do some pretty unethical and disturbing things before, but never to the degree I have been seeing lately. San Diego has pretty poor quality local news to begin with, so I guess it just carries over to things like ethics. Anyway, here is something that really struck me.

One of the local stations was at the park where the Granite Hills kids evacuated to about 5 minutes after the shooting occurred. I tuned in about 6pm that evening, several hours later. They were playing about a 5-minute uncut shot of a camera crew literally running after a mother of one of the students at the school through the crowd as she screamed her daughter's name at the top of her lungs over and over again. She clearly had no idea if her daughter was alive or dead at that point. There was no commentary, no cuts, just tape of the back of this poor woman's head as she tried to push her way through the crowd and find her daughter. It went on, and on, and on. I consider myself to be quite jaded when it comes to violence and whatnot on TV, but this scared the hell out of me. This was a real mother, literally hysterical, and I had no idea if her daughter was among the victims.

I assume the camera crew had asked her when she showed up if they could follow her around and she gave permission (probably something like "sure, whatever, get out of my way now.") Numerous times, however, other students milling around would shout things at the cameraman, like "Get out of her face!" and "What the hell are you doing?" The woman was in too frantic of a state to even notice, she didn't stand still at all. I didn't hear any response from the crew, but they kept filming.

IIRC, eventually the news crew lost her in the crowd, and went back to shooting closeup shots of students hugging and crying, and trying to hide their faces. I guess the news director knew what a horrible and shocking piece of tape this was, and decided to play the entire thing, unedited, several time that day. I guess it worked, too, as I was unable to change the channel.

I suppose you can't blame the photographer, afterall - this was "great footage." However, if it were my call, I would never have put this entire ordeal on the air. It seems equivalent to shoving a camera in the face of someone who has just seen their loved one run over by a train.

Now that I've written this, I'm going to try and find the website of the local news station. They were asking for viewer comments about the way they covered the shooting...

PS - (2.50 / 2) (#18)
by YelM3 on Mon Mar 26, 2001 at 10:40:37 PM EST

This is only somewhat related to the actual post. I assume there would be a long debate about the media attention following any story mentioning "school shooting." :)

[ Parent ]
Firearms at school (4.76 / 13) (#21)
by TheSpiritOf1776 on Tue Mar 27, 2001 at 03:41:18 PM EST

At one time in the United States it was not unusual for kids to take firearms to school.

I read a lot of Vin Suprynowicz (I'm at work so I don't have the links to his archives). He wrote in one of his columns how he, while growing up in Massachusetts in the 1960's, rode to school on his bike with his rifle slung over his shoulder. When he got to school, he walked into the principal's office and dropped off his rifle. When he got there, there were at least a dozen other rifles there. At the end of the day, he'd go to the principal's office and pick up his rifle (along with the others that took firearms to school). Later he would bike around the countryside and shoot assorted vermin (small game, not humans), then take the corpse to a farmer for a bounty.

I recall reading in a newspaper about how an older women who went to high school in the 1950's or 1960's in northeastern Pennsylvania would stop by her locker at the end of the day to pick up her rifle. She was a member of the school's rifle club.

I worked with a guy who grew up in Boston, Massachussets. He belonged to the rifle club at his high school.

At one time, firearms at school was perfectly normal in the United States, and nobody blinked an eye about it (or at least not publicly).

More recently, when I was growing up, my father kept his firearms right out in the open. When the basement of my parent's house was liveable, he had a gun rack mounted on the wall with his hunting rifles on it. No locks on the rifles (though at the time I think he kept the ammunition hidden or locked). Later, while I was in high school and the basement was torn up and used for storage, I remember that he left his M1 carbine (for those that don't know, the M1 carbine is a smaller version of the semi-automatic M1 Garand, both of which were issued to U.S. troops during WWII. The carbine was specifically for paratroopers) right out in the open on a credenza. Right there, lying out in the open. The ammunition and magazines were not locked up, and only took a short search to find.

My three siblings and I never had a problem with those firearms my father left out in the open. We knew from an early age that those were not toys, and that we were to leave them alone.

The closest thing we had to a problem was when friends of ours (other children) were over and didn't seem to understand the firearms != toys concept. A brief explanation was all that was needed, and the firearms were put down.

I can dodge bullets? (3.00 / 1) (#25)
by Pseudonym on Sat Mar 31, 2001 at 11:30:12 AM EST

No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Sorry, someone had to.

sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
More wisdom from Bob Stuber (4.50 / 2) (#26)
by kubalaa on Sat Mar 31, 2001 at 03:46:52 PM EST

I took some time to browse through the site, which offers pithy pearls of wisdom---like "E-mail is much like regular mail (or 'snail mail'), only faster"---and useful tips on all kinds of ways to be overprotective and mistrusting of your children.
  • Newsgroups: Alt means "alternative" and includes the most controversial newsgroups, sexual ones, places that discuss how to construct bombs, and the like.
  • Chatting: One of the odder manifestations of this is "cybersex," where two or more people type various sexual activities back and forth to each other. While this kind of role-playing might be all right for some adults, it causes problems when kids are involved. Some individuals---children or adults---become so caught up in their fantasy world that they begin to ignore the real world, spending hours and hours hunched in front of a screen.

    [So I guess cybersex is okay in moderation? First sensible thing he's said.]

  • Violent games: While in one sense, these games are just another sort of the cops 'n robbers games that boys have always played, the shooting can get more realistic than some parents can stomach. In one classic, Castle Wolfenstien, players encounter Nazis, who, when show [sic], spew gore, then collapse on the floor in pools of blood.
  • Internet terminology: If your children use a term you don't recognize, ask them to define it for you, then go onto the Internet yourself, type the term into a search engine, and see if what you find, if anything, reflects that definition.

    [Sample conversation:
    Mom (watching Johnny on the computer): So what are you working on now, Johnny?
    Johnny: I'm reading up on this cool encryption technology called PGP.
    Mom: "Encryption"? "PGP"? Could you define those terms for me?
    Johnny (rolls eyes): Yeah, encryption is what they do when they bury dead people. Geez mom, you're so out of it. Go away, I'm busy.
    (later, mom looks up terms on internet)
    Mom: Hmm, this doesn't say anything about dead people. In fact, it says that encryption is only used by terrorists and Libertarians! What kind of stuff is my Johnny mixed up in, that he would lie to me?]

  • WWW: Spend time with your children on the Internet. In this way, you can show them sites you'd like them to stay out of, and things about the listings you object to, that should warn them not to enter sites using similar terms.

    [I can see it now: "Okay, Johnny, this site exhibits photographs for those with anal and penetration fetishes. I don't ever want you to visit sites like this."]

  • Sample article: Ask the Experts: Who Are the Authorities on School Shootings?

    [I think most of them are in prison right now...]

  • "Snooping in the bedroom": Diaries: Oftentimes kids will write and keep dark diaries. Sometimes it's a passing phase and sometimes it represents a far more significant problem. Folded up pieces of paper and composition books are the two main things to look for. If you find something, don't be afraid to read it. If it appears to be personal thoughts, in line with normal behavior, then respect the child's privacy and quit reading. If it leans toward the dark side, confront the child with it.
  • "Bullets, Guns and Bombs!": When you are looking for these kinds of items leave no stone unturned! Do not make the potentially fatal mistake of thinking something is OK just because it doesn't look dangerous.

    [Yes, even that harmless-looking bag of fertilizer can be used to construct dangerous explosives! Your child may try to explain it away as necessary for their gardening hobby, but don't believe them for a second.]

I'd say The Onion ought to do a satire of this site, but it's hardly necessary.

Parent - Teen relations (4.50 / 2) (#27)
by belgarath on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 03:01:16 AM EST

Sites recommending these sort of things - to read their children's diary and snoop on their web browsing habbits, for example - cause otherwise wall meaning parents to betray their children's trust, and in their attempt to get closer, they distance themselves from the child.

I'm 17 and in high school, and I see so many of my friends fighting with parents who don't trust them at all. These parents already act like this site describes, but an official looking web site like this is sure to reinforce the belief that a child, even one in high school, needs to be constantly monitored. In fact, they don't. Most kids, contrary to popular belief, are smart enough to figure out that if their parents freak out when they write objectionable content in their diary, the diary is being read, and they won't use it anymore. Likewise, they'll get a hushmail account, and the parents won't read the email anymore.

Most importantly, though, is that a good parent-child relationship involves trust. If there isn't any trust created by normal social means, then trust can't be forced by a parent. At best, they'll get obedience and possibly false information.

I know that I'm preaching to the choir here, and that it's turning into a rant, but I'm absolutely disgusted by the kind of garbage that's on this page. I've seen a lot of kids really screwed up by this sort of parent behavior. I know they'll have to deal with it for the rest of their lives, and here this site is, presumably trying to make a buck selling 'advice.'

My solution? As a parent, act toward you child as you would want them to act towards you. That doesn't mean you should let them run out of control and play with highway flares in the living room, but realize that they're human, and deserve as much respect as you would give any professional colleague at work. They're family, so it's reasonable to expect that they be friendly, but the important thing to remember is that nothing can be forced. As the parent, you have absolute power, and if you get upset about something, that can be very frightening for a child, even if they don't admit it. They just won't talk with you about that subject again.

Trust (none / 0) (#29)
by leonbrooks on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 08:47:10 PM EST

Most importantly, though, is that a good parent-child relationship involves trust. If there isn't any trust created by normal social means, then trust can't be forced by a parent. At best, they'll get obedience and possibly false information.

Right on the money, my friend.

Sending your children to a school which equates ``respect'' with ``tactfully ignore'' is another great way to alienate yourself from them.

If you truly love your children, why do you send them away to institutionlised babysitting for six or seven hours every weekday? You may not overtly think of it like that, they might not either, but the covert message is there in your actions, impossible to hide.

Even if you ``must'' for some reason commit your children to a decade of relationship hell, teaching them early about responsiblity and consequences by giving them real responsibility (and so real authority) and allowing them to suffer or benefit from real consequences is a splendid idea. In fact, do this anyway, it helps them to learn to think. (-:
-- If at first you don't succeed, try a shorter bungee
[ Parent ]

Q3 Tactics (3.00 / 1) (#28)
by Frigido on Sun Apr 01, 2001 at 02:45:03 PM EST

I find strafing to be a very nice tactic for avoiding the enemy. This way, you're moving while always looking at your attacker. You'll then be able to see if he's firing at you and thus allow you to "doge bullets".

Maybe we should install megahealth and armor shards in schools, so that if the attack comes, students will be able to protect themselves while fleeing the crazed psycho in the buidling.

Finally, if all else fails, one clean rail shot to the head would destroy any perpatrator in the school building.

Its funny how life and Q3 are tied so closely together.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-Albert Einstein

What botehred me (4.00 / 1) (#30)
by FeersumAsura on Mon Apr 02, 2001 at 08:48:44 AM EST

was teh fact that everyone thinks IRC is only inhabited by 13 year olds and 40 year old perverts. IRC is often normal and in many years of using it I have never met any of these perverts that are menat to be everywhere.
I have met idiots, lamers, flamer, script kiddies and silly buggers who send malformed packets. But most of the time I've enjoyed the noise and lack of content. I'm on IRC most nights and #kuro5hin is often interesting as is #lug (When everyone is there).
So why can't people understand that lot's of nice friendly people sue the inetrnet as well. Ah sod it. Let's go and kill them all.

I'm so pre-emptive I'd nuke America to save time.
Dodging bullets at school | 30 comments (18 topical, 12 editorial, 0 hidden)
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