Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
Google Groups Supports Posting!

By phallen in MLP
Thu May 24, 2001 at 10:18:27 AM EST
Tags: Internet (all tags)
Internet

Google Groups now supports posting, so flame, flame away!


The wait is over! We lost a great resource when Deja.com sold out to Google, becoming Google Groups -- posting and replying to messages was not supported. But Google has come through on its promise to support posting.

When Deja went away, I found that "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" rang true. from what I've seen and used, other web-based newsgroup viewing/posting sites don't even come close to Deja's ease of use, searching ability, and speed. I'be been happy with Google Groups so far; hopefully posting will make it better than Deja ever was.

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Poll
What is you favorite newsgroup/usegroup service?
o Don't use one 27%
o Service though my ISP (MS Outlook, etc.) 48%
o Deja.com, but it's gone! 3%
o Google Groups 8%
o MailAndNews.com 1%
o Newsranger.com 0%
o Other 10%

Votes: 83
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Google
o Google Groups
o Also by phallen


Display: Sort:
Google Groups Supports Posting! | 31 comments (21 topical, 10 editorial, 0 hidden)
Groups (3.00 / 1) (#3)
by starbreeze on Wed May 23, 2001 at 01:57:08 PM EST

This may be very naive, but how the heck do you have a groups site where you can't post/reply? What else is a group for?

I used egroups and after they sold out to yahoo, emails began becoming corrupted or bouncing for no reason.

~~~~~~~~~
"There's something strangely musical about noise." ~Trent Reznor

Useful (none / 0) (#10)
by orestes on Wed May 23, 2001 at 03:58:26 PM EST

Some of us like to lurk. :)

[ You Sad Bastard ]
[ Parent ]
Hmm (none / 0) (#11)
by starbreeze on Wed May 23, 2001 at 04:27:34 PM EST

But if ya can't post, what's to lurk? a blank group?

~~~~~~~~~
"There's something strangely musical about noise." ~Trent Reznor
[ Parent ]

Old concept (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Merekat on Thu May 24, 2001 at 12:18:47 PM EST

Once upon a time, there were newsgroups. They existed on all kinds of topics from books to computing, to cooking, to pornography. Before they got all filled up with spam and lost popularity some of them were a valuable source of information, a little like some mailing lists are today. You don't need to post or even subscribe to extract useful info from public mailinglist archives. The principle is similar here.

People still run news servers and subscribe to newsgroups. But it seems that fewer and fewer people are aware of their existance.
---
I've always had the greatest respect for other peoples crack-pot beliefs.
- Sam the Eagle, The Muppet Show
[ Parent ]

Usenet Newsgroups (4.33 / 3) (#14)
by natael on Wed May 23, 2001 at 07:05:37 PM EST

These are not "groups" like egroups, and maybe this was a poor choice of name on the part of google.com.

This is a web front end to usenet discussion groups that are normally handled by ISPs on a separate protocol.

The system is distributed, so even though users could not post through google.com, they could read the thousands of messages posted by other internet users, and eventually the put an archive of messages they purchased up that goes back quite a few years. Its a great reference.

The fact that Google.com now allows users to post, and participate in discussions is great news, because many ISPs no longer provide usenet access, and separate accounts cost as much as $30 / month. The delay in implementing posting was probably to make sure that their system was not abused by spammers, and to make sure it could scale to excessive use it would receive once it was fully functional.

[ Parent ]

Google and groups (none / 0) (#29)
by Merekat on Fri May 25, 2001 at 05:27:50 AM EST

I approve of the use of the term 'groups' by Google. Newsgroups were around before egroups and their ilk. That a well known name like Google uses that term makes it more likely that people will re-adopt it in association with news.
---
I've always had the greatest respect for other peoples crack-pot beliefs.
- Sam the Eagle, The Muppet Show
[ Parent ]
The Interface (2.00 / 1) (#5)
by ucblockhead on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:03:14 PM EST

The interface still isn't as good as the old deja one. Still, it's something for those of us without news server access.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
I like it (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by leviathan on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:18:46 PM EST

I never used deja heavily, preferring to use a dedicated client instead, but what I've seen of the google groups system I've liked.

For one, it's fast. Deja was painfully slow, from this side of the atlantic at least. A thread view of comments would be nice for google, but a flat view is fine considering the tradition of quoting material in news - especially since google colours the quoted material differently.

Perhaps in the more Outlook infected newsgroups deja was better, but I find google better for those groups still with a strong tradition of supporting those without threading newsreaders.

--
I wish everyone was peaceful. Then I could take over the planet with a butter knife.
- Dogbert
[ Parent ]

Bah (none / 0) (#19)
by leviathan on Thu May 24, 2001 at 11:20:30 AM EST

I can't believe I've started calling it 'deja'. The proper name will always be 'dejanews', at least until it stopped carrying the news archives.

--
I wish everyone was peaceful. Then I could take over the planet with a butter knife.
- Dogbert
[ Parent ]
At Least It Works (5.00 / 6) (#16)
by Signal seven 11 on Wed May 23, 2001 at 09:04:13 PM EST

Deja was unbelievably broken for the last 1+ years of its existence.

I have yet to run into a database error with Google Groups.

[ Parent ]

alt.binaries? (4.00 / 3) (#15)
by natael on Wed May 23, 2001 at 07:11:53 PM EST

I noticed Google Groups has removed all of the alt.binaries groups. I never thought they would mirror the massive (and mostly illegal) file archive, but I figured they would at least let us read the messages stripped of their binary attachments.

Anyone remember what Deja.com's policy was on these groups?

"And now you're apologizing, not for insulting and denigrating people you don't know, but for doing it twice. Amazing..." -- Ryan

messages in alt.binaries (none / 0) (#28)
by odaiwai on Fri May 25, 2001 at 05:13:33 AM EST

Since most of those messages went along the lines of:
"d00dz, where can i gte some warez!!11!! kewl!1!"
that's probably not a great loss.

dave
-- "They're chefs! Chefs with chainsaws!"
[ Parent ]
Google Groups (4.00 / 1) (#21)
by Manish on Thu May 24, 2001 at 12:58:37 PM EST

Have used the posting service. Simple enough - regiateration involves a confirmation email at your e-mail address (what else, Google Groups recommends you to get a fake webmail account) (ok..not in THAT straight words).

Your login is just your e-mail address, and I am yet to see any cookie feature in action - you have to login in every new session you start.

Further, Google Groups is still a long way to go in user-personalisation. You can't define your favourites or anything. To read posts from a specific group, you have to bookmark that URL straightway.

This is different from what NewsOne offers. As of now, NewsOne offers better service than Google, but still in terms of user-personalisation, they are still lagging behind the e-mail based MailAndNews.com.

But anyway, as always, Google Groups is the place I now choose (like Google) to quickly search for the information.
Manish.

Hmm... (none / 0) (#22)
by cr0sh on Thu May 24, 2001 at 01:45:31 PM EST

I hate things that require I give a valid address. Many web email services are this way, now. The trick is to find a service that doesn't require a "mailback".

My favorite? ProntoMail.com - simple service to get a fake email, then go to hotmail or yahoo and do a mailback to the prontomail service. Now, you are "verified" - and if you verfiy between several services (other than prontomail), and visit your mail drops every now and then (to keep them from looking "stale" - and thus being removed), you now have an anonymous mail service.

I have a few accounts this way - never have used them, but they can be VERY useful if and when you need them...

[ Parent ]

SneakeMail and SpamMotel (none / 0) (#27)
by Manish on Fri May 25, 2001 at 12:03:31 AM EST

Right!

Infact, I used the same thing with Google Groups, but normally I use either the favourite of all - SneakeMail or the one that even comes with a Windows desktop client utility to quickly create such addresses - SpamMotel. Try them out. :-)
Manish.
[ Parent ]

"sold out"? (4.00 / 1) (#23)
by CrayDrygu on Thu May 24, 2001 at 02:36:37 PM EST

"We lost a great resource when Deja.com sold out to Google"

Um...Deja.com was going under, and at the last minute Google came in and bought all of their archives. (not the software to interact with them, which is why google still isn't up to where Deja was -- they had to decipher the archives first, and now write the software to use them).

How is that "selling out"?

calm down (none / 0) (#24)
by tralfamadore on Thu May 24, 2001 at 03:11:20 PM EST

the term "sold out" doesn't necessarily have to mean "sold their souls to THE MAN," just simply they sold their part out.

[ Parent ]
Sorry (none / 0) (#25)
by CrayDrygu on Thu May 24, 2001 at 03:27:26 PM EST

First of all, I'm prefectly calm, thank you. Anyway, sorry, but I've never heard the term "sold out" used in any other context.

[ Parent ]
News Archives & Internet Information Stickiness (none / 0) (#26)
by hillct on Thu May 24, 2001 at 09:51:08 PM EST

I have a problem with the whole concept of commercial newsgroup archives. My concern is actually rooted more deeply than that. I'm concerned about information stickiness in the internet world

There is the possibility that information stored on the internet will disappear after sponsorship of that information disappears. In order for information to appear on the internet, someone needs to pay for the bandwidth and arrange for hosting of the material. What if Galileo or Aristottle has published their works on the internet? Their ideas weren't widely recognized or accepted until after they died, and as soon as they died, the their sponsorship of the material would disappear. This raises the question, what happens to truly valuable information which is not recognized as such until years after the death of the originator of that information? Does it simply disappear off the net? Information nowadays is not nearly as static as it once was.

This problem is partially being addressed by commercial mailing list archivers such as Deja/Google Groups. The scolarly work which you seek to preserve in perpetuity could be posted on an appropriate newsgroup, which is in turn archived, however, - unlike a library - the company maintaining the archive isn't in the business of preserving human knowlege in perpetuity, they're in business to make money.

It almost happened. We almost list the acumulated knowlege of millions of internet users, when Deja went under. What would have happened if google hadn't purchased the archives? Would that information have been lsot forever? Could it have been gathered from a series of smaller news servers around the world?

But, back to my problem with the araangements as they stand.. What heppens if google and others decide that certain types of information do not contribute to their profitability. Perhaps it isn't ptofitable to keep archived content which is accessed less frequently than X number of times per month. Would this knowlege then be lost? It isn't published in a book, where an old dusty leather-bound volume will contain the information until the end of time... Information if far less static these days, and that's a bad thing.

--CTH


--Got Lists? | Top 31 Signs Your Spouse Is A Spy
[ Parent ]
The Google buyout has made newsgroups useable (none / 0) (#30)
by Mental Blank on Fri May 25, 2001 at 07:33:43 AM EST

I'm one of those lurkers who doesn't want to follow a group day by day, but is interested in searching a particular group for discussions about a particular topic occasionally. As far as I'm concerned, Google's takeover of Deja's groups is the best thing to happen to Usenet... ever.

Previously, if you wanted to search Deja for information on anything, you had to go through a godawful interface, plastered with ads, which didn't even work half the time. Now searches are incredibly fast and the interface is clean and intuitive. I know that people want threaded views, storing of favourite groups, etc. - but based on past performance, the odds are that Google will deliver these enhancements any time soon.

As for the criticism that the archival of public newsgroups should be a public service, I can see the point - but I also believe that a big company like Google is far more competent to deal with the service. Ideally, Google should make a pledge that if they go under, the archive should be released to the public for free.

In summary... Google, more than any other site, has improved my web browsing experience. Now it looks like they're going to do the same for Usenet.

Agreed! (none / 0) (#31)
by dave920 on Sun Jun 03, 2001 at 02:07:17 AM EST

I completely agree with your assertion of this. I don't consider this a "take over," but rather a HUGE improvement. Google does great things with whatever it sets its eyes on .. they are all about search. They're latest developments to be able to search PDF documents and translate web pages into any number of languages are just a couple of the examples of how great their services are. As for their interface: simple, relaxed, non-fussy -- revolutionary.

[ Parent ]
Google Groups Supports Posting! | 31 comments (21 topical, 10 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!