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UK Election MMLP

By BobaFatt in MLP
Wed May 23, 2001 at 05:29:49 PM EST
Tags: Politics (all tags)
Politics

A while back, when I posted my story on the start of the UK General Election campaign, several people requested more information on the various UK parties involved. Never one to disappoint, I present to you this masterwork of MMLP:


This list is aiming to be as exhaustive as I could manage, and was produced mainly with the help of the excellent BBC Vote 2001 site, and a little help from Google.

Firstly, and most importantly, the established, nationwide parties:

Over the years, the major parties have spawned several breakaway factions, including:

Scotland has a variety of parties, including:

By comparison, Wales is somewhat lacking. I could find only one Welsh party:

Even Cornwall is getting in on the regional act:

Northern Ireland is, as always, home of a disproportionately large number of parties:

And then, we have everyone else I could find:

Unfortunately, the Natural Law Party are not standing in any constituencies this year. I for one will miss them.

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Poll
I would vote:
o Labour 5%
o Conservative 7%
o Liberal Democrat 25%
o Official Monster Raving Loony Party 41%
o A Regional/National Party 2%
o Green 7%
o Other 0%
o None 10%

Votes: 39
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Google
o story
o BBC
o Vote 2001
o Labour
o Conservati ve
o Liberal Democrat
o OMRLP
o Socialist Labour
o Liberal
o Pro Euro Conservative Party
o Rock'N'Rol l Loony Party
o Scotish Nationalist (SNP)
o Scottish Socialist
o Scottish Green
o Plaid Cymru
o Meboyn Kernow
o Ulster Unionist (UUP)
o Social Democratic and Labour (SDLP)
o Democratic Unionist (DUP)
o Sinn Fein
o UK Unionist (UKUP)
o Alliance Party
o Northern Ireland Unionist
o Progressiv e Unionist
o Northern Ireland Women's Coalition
o Workers Party
o Green
o UK Independance Party
o Socialist Alliance
o Socialist Party of Great Britain
o Left Alliance
o BNP
o Communist Party of Great Britain
o Third Way
o Christian peoples Alliance
o Independan t Kiddeminster Hospital and Health Concern
o Countrysid e Party
o Prolife Alliance
o Grey Party
o Natural Law Party
o Also by BobaFatt


Display: Sort:
UK Election MMLP | 56 comments (41 topical, 15 editorial, 0 hidden)
Nice. (4.00 / 1) (#1)
by Anya on Wed May 23, 2001 at 09:58:13 AM EST

The problem with this election is that there really is no excitement to it at all, because it is a foregone conclusion. Usually general elections are quite tense and exciting, especially as campaigning only lasts for one month, but this time it seems rather boring.

I'll probably be voting Liberal Democrat, but I can't see it making much difference because I live in a very strongly conservative constituency. I suppose that one problem is that the parties have converged in a number of ways - the labour party can no longer be considered as socialist as it once was. There are still important differences, such as Europe, but the politicians seem desperately eager not to discuss the subject at all, the tories because they are split and labour because they think it is their weak spot.

I imagine that next time around things will be much closer, after a decade of labour government things will seem tired and the opposition parties may have a chance. Mind you, the tories seem to be hated for what they did last time, so in all honesty I'd be surprised if they get back in within a decade.

Stars, stars! And all eyes else dead coals.

Me too (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:09:24 AM EST

I'll be voting Lib Dem again, but they're obviously not going to win and being in Surrey, it's Tory all the way here... Still if they're lucky they'll pick up some voters from the other two parties and get a larger majority than last time...

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

yes (none / 0) (#6)
by Anya on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:21:41 AM EST

It's much better to vote for who you believe in than waste time on all this tactical voting, which completely skews results. I'll be voting Lib Dem despite my local candidate not having a chance. You did say that Chelsea is full of tories, nd you were right :)

Stars, stars! And all eyes else dead coals.
[ Parent ]

tory's (none / 0) (#8)
by alprazolam on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:50:48 AM EST

tory==conservative party?

[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0) (#9)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:51:57 AM EST

Indeedy.

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

Labour controlled council in Hackney... (none / 0) (#19)
by deefer on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:29:07 AM EST

Who have very tolerant policies and facilities for refuge seekers and illegal immigrants, and the unemployed.

Although unfortunately, very poor policies as far as keeping the streets safe. Or clean. Or their own council members from being either corrupt or fiscally irresponsible (Hackney council is millions in debt, not sure as to which of the reasons is more correct)

But I digress... I'm in a very strong Labour constituency; I either go for a protest Lib-Dem or Tory vote, or spoil my paper by way of protest. Neither of which warms the cockles of my democratic heart.

The only thing left to me is to run for the election myself. And in a few years, I just may do that. Deefer's 31337 Party... Sounds grrrreat!!! :) Or then again maybe I'll just make my pile and emigrate...


Kill the baddies.
Get the girl.
And save the entire planet.

[ Parent ]

Hackney Council (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:35:01 AM EST

I have a nice piece of acid techno on vinyl at home with the charming title of "Hackney Council Are A Bunch Of Cunts". They're not really very popular with anyone at all...

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

Aaah don't get me started!!! (none / 0) (#23)
by deefer on Wed May 23, 2001 at 12:09:21 PM EST

Heh, I could fill a whole two pages with my grievances with Hackney council... And I think by your description they got off lightly! :) I'd have used much stronger terms!

Just a pity that they still keep bleating about the mismanagement of former councils, conveniently forgetting that they are a Labour council, and the former councils who screwed things up were Labour, too... Hackney *has* had some large budget cuts recently; but then so have a lot of other local councils... There has yet to emerge a decent fiscal policy which doesn't seem to involve the laying off of street hygiene technicians (as they are called by the council) and the retention of single parent black lesbian unemployment drop in centres




Kill the baddies.
Get the girl.
And save the entire planet.

[ Parent ]

Wasted Vote (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by priestess on Wed May 23, 2001 at 01:04:13 PM EST

Assuming I'm on the electorial roll having recently moved house, I'll go vote liberal too. I'm in Chris Smith's consituancy though, so I guess it'll take another four thousand of us to make any difference at all. We need a Proportional System in this country, but it doesn't look like it's possible to vote one in since those who can win have a vested interest in the current setup.

Still, I guess we can try, theres nobody saying they'll vote for anyone other than the libs in this forum yet.

Pre.........

----
My Mobile Phone Comic-books business
Robots!
[ Parent ]
Yes, except the PR :) (4.00 / 1) (#33)
by Anya on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:00:48 PM EST

I like the libs, but the one thing I can't abide in their policies is the insistance on PR. Proportional Representation strikes me as unfair, because it smashes the relationship between an MP and his or her's constituency. Instead MP's become loyal to the party leadership, so that they can rise in the list system and be assured of a place in parliament. I like MP's being answerable to a constituency. Also, PR countries like Austria and Germany tend to have huge coalition governemnts that are very cross party and so stay in power for ages and ages. Like Austria, where the government held power from 1945 till last year, when the populace got fed up and voted in the extremist Freedom Party.

Having said that, I do like many lib dem policies on education, the NHS and public services in general. And I like their attitude to Europe.

I live in Michael Portillo's constituency anyway, and I just can't vote for him (despite him being a splendid example of first past the post style democracy at the last election :)

Stars, stars! And all eyes else dead coals.
[ Parent ]

Yes, except the PR :) (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by vrai on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:42:23 PM EST

Agreed, while the LibDems are rather agrieved that the FPP system keeps them from going anywhere near government; it also keeps out extremist groups like the BNP. Also, much as I disagree with much of Labour policy (economic aside) I would much rather have a strong Labour government, capable of making decisions, than a coalition that can't do anything lest it offend one of its member parties.

Anyway, who would form a coalition with who ? Labour and the Tories are broadly centre-right butpoles apart on issues like the EU; whilst the LibDems have a similar social policy to Labour, but rather different views about tax.

[ Parent ]

Butpoles! (4.00 / 2) (#44)
by priestess on Wed May 23, 2001 at 05:25:52 PM EST

Labour and the Tories are broadly centre-right butpoles
Heh, I like the way I read that better than what you meant.

Personally I tend to prefer a weak government since Governments so rarely do anything right. I also don't see why extremist groups should be denied representation any more than I should be, though of course we will still have to keep to the Human Rights Act even if we change the system.

Pre.......

----
My Mobile Phone Comic-books business
Robots!
[ Parent ]
Spot the dodgy space key (none / 0) (#49)
by vrai on Thu May 24, 2001 at 02:47:14 AM EST

Extremist groups aren't denied representation, they just have to win a constituency outright (the same as anyone else). Unfortunately for them (and fortunately for everyone else) British voters tend, for the most part, not to vote for extreme or one-policy (e.g. the Legalise Cannabis Alliance, or the Green Party) parties.

As for your worries about a strong Government, as long as its matched by an upper house who isn't afraid to reject (or in the UK's case, resubmit for further discussion) the more stupid/dangerous legislation there shouldn't be a problem. Alas in the UK our upper house was changed from a bunch of cantankerous, out of touch old gits who where there due to a completely arbitary measure (i.e. birth right); to a bunch of cantankerous, out of touch old gits who are there because they kissed serious governmental arse. Not that the current Government wishes to load the dice or anything.

[ Parent ]

Breaking the link (none / 0) (#43)
by priestess on Wed May 23, 2001 at 05:20:04 PM EST

There are, of course, many different forms of PR and so far as I know the Libs aren't commited to any one of them, merely a commission of some kind to figure out which is best. Not all of them break the link between an MP and his constituancy, SpiralX supplies a link elsewhere.

It's funny how PR's opponents always say that PR leads to these huge powerful coilitions who are difficult to remove, and then two sentences later say that they prefer FPTP because it produces these strong decisive governments. Personally I'd sooner have a weak government anyway, they rarely do anything I agree with they're better wrapped up in endless argument.

Pre.........

----
My Mobile Phone Comic-books business
Robots!
[ Parent ]
Well... (none / 0) (#45)
by Anya on Wed May 23, 2001 at 06:13:59 PM EST

It's funny how PR's opponents always say that PR leads to these huge powerful coilitions who are difficult to remove, and then two sentences later say that they prefer FPTP because it produces these strong decisive governments.

For me, the difference is profound. PR produces coalitions that can't be removed by the electoral process - they swallow up all other parties and just keep on and on, election after election. FPTP produces strong governments, yes, but they are utterly at the mercy of the electorate. One of the strengths of FPTP is that it allows the electorate to completely annihilate a goverment through the ballot box if it so wishes - like the tories last time and labour in 1979.

As far as having a weak government goes, yes that would be nice :) But I'd rather have a strong government that governs in a coherent fashion, than a weak one that governs in an incoherent fashion, without a view to the long term.

All very interesting anyway, but I doubt that PR will ever have a chance - the two big parties are completely opposed to it in Westminster, and not without good reason.

Stars, stars! And all eyes else dead coals.
[ Parent ]

Can't be removed (none / 0) (#50)
by priestess on Thu May 24, 2001 at 05:22:41 AM EST

See, "coalitions that can't be removed by the electoral process" is pretty much how I see the combination of Labour and Tory right now. Both bought off by megacorp, both more interested in Economics than people, both trying to crack down on freedom to reduce crime and it's utterly impossible to elect anybody else. Sure, they pretend to fight but watching them on TV pledging to match each other on any topic that comes up has to make you wonder.

So far as I can see, almost any system would be an improvement.

Maybe I'm too cynical, I'm sure that what Blair would say.

Pre.......

----
My Mobile Phone Comic-books business
Robots!
[ Parent ]
Case study (none / 0) (#52)
by Merekat on Thu May 24, 2001 at 06:04:17 AM EST

Go west and have a look at the system in Ireland. It is PR based but the MPs (TDs) are very much linked to their constituency. What happens is, in each constituency a number of seats are available. Candidates are voted for in order of preference. At the counting, candidates with the lowest number of first preference votes are eliminated and their second preferences redistributed and so on, until the candidates with the highest number of preferences pass the threshold (which I do not know how to calculate) and are elected. That way, the link between constituency and TD is preserved to the extent that in the not too distant past, a TD thrown out by his party for financial fiddling still was returned to power by his constituency.

As regards the same coalition governments staying in power for years, well, arguably, since all political parties in Ireland except Labour came from the same party, this is always true;) In a less flippant answer, coalitions can and do change with more fluidity than a single party system. All it normally takes is for one party to the coalition to defect and it is all change. It happened in the not so distant past when people got fed up of Fianna Fail and a so-called rainbow coalition of Fine Gael, Labour and the Democratic Left took power. This tends to concentrate governments on keeping coalition partners happy and can create a good balance. However, it also produces the one negative element of a coalition government that I can think of which is the current situation with a coalition with a narrow majority, that there is a danger of too many concessions going to independants who only work for their own constituency and don't have any interest in the bigger picture, so that they will vote with the coalition block.

Maybe it is because I've grown up with it, but a PR system adapted like this seems far fairer than the single party system in the UK. I would love to see the Lib Dems as coalition partners. I think it would be excellent news for the country.
---
I've always had the greatest respect for other peoples crack-pot beliefs.
- Sam the Eagle, The Muppet Show
[ Parent ]

Hey (none / 0) (#38)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:45:19 PM EST

Yet another Londoner... :) I honestly think there are more people from London here than anywhere else, but maybe it's just that we dominate the diary section with our inane chatter...

As for PR, check out this guide to alternative voting systems at Charter 88. Several of them are aimed at being closer to the actual vote whilst still keeping the link between MP and constituancy.

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

I was going to vote Tory ... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by vrai on Wed May 23, 2001 at 01:07:22 PM EST

... until that twat John Townend MP started spouting neo-facist crap and Hague refused to expell him from the party.

Now given that I want a party that is capitalist, anti-welfare state, anti-EU; but also anti-racist, and pro-free trade I have precisely no-one to vote for. Bugger.

[ Parent ]

Europe a difference? (none / 0) (#55)
by moscow on Thu May 24, 2001 at 10:02:45 AM EST

I'm rather astonished at the idea that there is any definable dividing line between Labour and the Tories on Europe. Both parties are deeply divided over the subject, it's just that the Strong Leader Alistair Campbell^H^H^H Tony Blair doesn't let anyone discuss it. The LibDems are clearly much more clearly aligned in a pro-Europe stance.

I really think that there is more division in Britain as a whole over Europe than anything else, and that a re-definition of the shape of British politics into pro- and anti-Europe would make more sense in a world where Blair has called himself Thatcher's true heir.

[ Parent ]

Natural Law Party (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:16:24 AM EST

This lot are a truly international organisation, and although they're not standing for election over here in the UK, it has to be said that around the world they're pushing for real solutions to real problems.

See? I bet you wish he was in charge of foreign policy!

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey

Noone will ever take them seriously (none / 0) (#11)
by derek_m on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:54:17 AM EST

As soon as anyone mentions the Natural Law Party I always think of one advertisement they ran a few years ago.

It featured what I recall was one of their candidates sitting cross legged on what appeared to be a mattress bouncing up and down and claiming this was a wonderful thing to do.

At least the Monster Raving Loony Party are honest about their lack of sanity.

[ Parent ]
Bouncing around cross legged (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by nobbystyles on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:00:00 AM EST

Is called 'Yogic Flying'....

I think they try and harness the vast amounts of energy to achieve world peace or something like that...

[ Parent ]
Yeah - thats the one (none / 0) (#21)
by derek_m on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:47:54 AM EST

It had been annoying me since I posted that comment - thanks.

[ Parent ]
Yogic Flying. (none / 0) (#22)
by Kugyou on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:53:43 AM EST

Quite possibly yet another of the greatest myths given to mankind. I mean, if it makes you feel good, do it, but this 'guru' (name escapes me, the one that was with the Beatles) has people pay him money to learn this yogic flying. In all the years that people have been paying him, no one has 'flown' as he claims they will, and they have never seen him fly. Yet people claim that they actually hang in the air for a moment when they do it. Uh. No. Using motion-capture software, it was shown that they never defied any law of physics. Ever. Unless they're warping space-time and actually hanging in *time* for a second that we can't see...? Ohyeah, I am definitely going to vote for a party with a guy who thinks he can fly...actually, I might, because I am a member of the OMRLP. :P

And just a heads-up, this comment is snide and sarcastic while still maintaining truth. No investigative report here.
-----------------------------------------
Dust in the wind bores holes in mountains
[ Parent ]

This is too funny for words (none / 0) (#31)
by weirdling on Wed May 23, 2001 at 01:55:26 PM EST

We're going to teach eastern meditation techniques to Moslems? I want front-row seats to this one. Problem is that I doubt the meditation teachers would stay *alive* long enough to do anything, and *forcing* people into meditation kinda blunts its effect. Oh, well, never accused the NLP of being rational...

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
[ Parent ]
Actually, you've missed the point (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Anonymous 242 on Wed May 23, 2001 at 03:07:12 PM EST

Hagelin's assertion is that a group of several thousand yogic flyers in a host country (like the US) has been scientifically demonstrated to help bring about peace and prosperty in trouble spots half the world away.

You may now resume laughing.

[ Parent ]

That is much more funny (none / 0) (#46)
by weirdling on Wed May 23, 2001 at 06:20:36 PM EST

So, when I was a kid and bounced on mattresses, I was promoting world peace instead of destroying bed springs?

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
[ Parent ]
You missed the Monster Raving Loony Party (none / 0) (#14)
by hulver on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:07:23 AM EST

Which has got 2 official sites

http://freespace.virgin.net/raving.loony/
http://omrlp.com/

--
HuSi!
No he didn't (none / 0) (#17)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:16:47 AM EST

I can quite clearly see "OMRLP" right near the top and their offshoot the Rock'n'Roll Loony Party further down :)

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

Ah, I missed it (none / 0) (#18)
by hulver on Wed May 23, 2001 at 11:19:33 AM EST

And I was looking for it. Acronym overload I think.

--
HuSi!
[ Parent ]
Just curious (none / 0) (#32)
by weirdling on Wed May 23, 2001 at 01:57:51 PM EST

Is there an analogous party in GB to the US Libertarian party? Does anybody know? I assume that the Green party aligns very much with our own Green party.

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
Not as far as I know (3.00 / 1) (#36)
by spiralx on Wed May 23, 2001 at 02:39:38 PM EST

I haven't gone through the list exhaustively, but the only place you're likely to find libertarians in this country is in the fringe of the Conservatives. Libertarianism seems to be a very American phenomenon that nobody else in the world really takes very seriously as a practical political philosophy.

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

No one... (none / 0) (#53)
by kuwaerufivechin on Thu May 24, 2001 at 07:42:45 AM EST

but these guys:

The Libertarian Alliance
25 Chapter Chambers
Esterbrooke Street
London SW1P 4NN
England

Tel: +44 (0)171 821 5502
Fax: +44 (0)171 834 2031



I mean, we're trying to save the whales. They're stuck up there. --FZ
[ Parent ]
Link (none / 0) (#54)
by spiralx on Thu May 24, 2001 at 08:28:55 AM EST

Their website is here as far as I can tell. A google search brings up several pages, but that seems to be their one...

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

Sort of. (3.00 / 2) (#39)
by Anya on Wed May 23, 2001 at 03:05:30 PM EST

The Conservative Party prides itself on being a broad church. One of the divisions in it is between the old fashioned tories (much like the republicans in some respects, with respect for religion and discipline and so on) and the 'One Nation' tories. The former like economic freedom and nice prescriptive social control (a damned good flogging never did anyone any harm sort of attitude) and the latter also like economic freedom whilst also liking social tolerance, which is closer to the libertarian line I expect. An example of the contrast is the difference between Anne Widdecombe and Michael Portillo or Michael Howard and William Hague.

Having said all that, they are nothing like as extreme as the libertarian party - just the same views vastly muted down.

I have to say the only place I ever come across libertarianism is on the net, usually being espoused by americans. I don't much like what I have seen so far :)

Stars, stars! And all eyes else dead coals.
[ Parent ]

I've only met one libertarian in real life (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by Anonymous 242 on Wed May 23, 2001 at 10:39:02 PM EST

Out of the universe of all of my aquaintences only one has ever made himself known to me to be a libertarian. He now thinks that libertarianism is a sad joke. Ironically, he came to that conclusion after he lost his faith in Christianity. (I say ironically because the entire libertarian platorfom -- enlightened self interest -- seems to me to be contrary to the essence of Christianity.)

I know more than a few libertarians online, but they are vastly outnumbered even by the Greens, which I think says something about the lack of popularity of libertarianism. To be honest, I'm surprised that libertarianism isn't more popular in the US. One would think that a political philosophy based entirely on selfishness would flourish in the current US culture of self.

[ Parent ]

Oh, but it does (5.00 / 6) (#48)
by Signal seven 11 on Thu May 24, 2001 at 12:51:19 AM EST

One would think that a political philosophy based entirely on selfishness would flourish in the current US culture of self.

There are a few idealists here and there, but most people in the US vote purely in what they believe to be self-interest. The poor want welfare, the rich want power.

[ Parent ]

Wrong (none / 0) (#51)
by nickwkg on Thu May 24, 2001 at 05:39:58 AM EST

Sorry, that first paragraph is completely wrong.

The "One Nation" tories are the old fashioned ones. Contrast them with the neo-liberal Thatcherites to see the difference.

[ Parent ]
Funny that (4.00 / 1) (#56)
by keyeto on Thu May 24, 2001 at 10:39:21 AM EST

In my more gentle moments, I tend to think that the only good Tory is one that's lost their deposit. But there is something about the old-fashioned Tories that makes you step back, and at least wonder if they deserve a little more respsect than the full on neo-liberals (well, not really, they're still Tories after all).

They believe in the institutions, and in the checks and balances those instututions are supposed to impose upon capitalism. Furthermore, they see the failure of those institutions in applying their powers as poor government. It kind of hangs together as a political posistion, even if it's a very paternal position.


--
"This is the Space Age, and we are Here To Go"
William S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]
How could you forget... (none / 0) (#41)
by Mental Blank on Wed May 23, 2001 at 03:34:33 PM EST

The Legalise Cannabis Alliance? Believe it or not, they have a fairly large number of candidates, including one in my constituency, which is as right-wing as could be.

Incidentally, I personally will be voting for the Liberal Democrats in the election, because they seem to be the only major party who are concerned with human rights issues and who want to improve the quality of public services. It's true that this is an incredibly boring election, but it's also the first one I've had a chance to vote in.

UK Election MMLP | 56 comments (41 topical, 15 editorial, 0 hidden)
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