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[P]
Effects of Drugs and Prostitution

By quam in MLP
Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 12:37:22 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

The Hollywood, Florida, USA Police Department provided arrest photographs of the same woman over a 10 year period. Comparing the photos, it is easy to see the bodily effects of drugs and, assumingly, sexually transmitted diseases.


According to an interview by Court TV with Hollywood Police, the pages are intended to "let people know how terrible prostitution is." Apparently the woman was "moderately attractive and healthy in November 1979," and her photos during 1989 show a "haggard, sunken face of a much older, sickly face."

The police state such deterioration was caused by prostitution and drug use.

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Poll
Police Public Affair Web Campaigns:
o Interesting, I Have a Fascination with Crime 8%
o Could Prove Helpful in Deterring Crime 10%
o Merely Add More Mindless Information to the Web 31%
o Invade the Privacy of Those Documented 50%

Votes: 58
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o arrest photographs of the same woman over a 10 year period
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Display: Sort:
Effects of Drugs and Prostitution | 69 comments (67 topical, 2 editorial, 2 hidden)
Deterrence (3.13 / 15) (#1)
by slick willie on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:06:22 PM EST

One thing: I'm definitely deterred from boozing and whoring.

All kidding aside, this, to me works on a visceral level. I work with a 41 year old who is built like a 20 year old -- compare and contrast to this woman. I've seen 70 year olds who look better more robust than that. It's even better than the egg commercial. This is you, this is you after ten years on drugs.

As a parent, I will be more than happy to show this to my daughter when she is old enough to begin to understand that today's choices have long-term ramifications. Might scar her for life, but I'm saving up for her college and her therapy at the same time.

"...there is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit."
--Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address

A few scars... (3.66 / 6) (#24)
by Kaki Nix Sain on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:22:31 PM EST

... are good for a kid.

I still see the images of people wailing as they were cut from twisted cars after speeding, drinking, missing traffic signs, etc. "If even one accident is prevented by these films..." I'm here to say that they did their job, quite well.

I also watch out for rusty nails while in attics, but that is another story...



[ Parent ]

But not as much as... (3.33 / 3) (#30)
by SlydeRule on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 10:54:00 PM EST

I don't remember much of those films; they were pretty out-of-date back in my day, and very difficult to relate to. I mean, really, running-boards?

But nothing could impress me as much as seeing the real thing. Pools of blood around severed body parts, the blank stares from a couple of women who had, a few minutes before, been young and beautiful.

I had trouble sleeping for a month.

[ Parent ]

Uh-huh (2.23 / 39) (#2)
by DranoK on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:07:33 PM EST

You stupid stupid stupid naive fool. Did you never learn what we consider logic? Pathetic.

You have a correlation, nothing more. You know that A) She was a prostitute and used drugs, and B) she aged prematurely and became haggard and ugly as sin. You (like so many sheep-minded idiots do -- AKA aparently the police in this case) made the conclusion that A caused B. D'oh!

Don't you remember the basic laws here? In ANY correlation, you have 3 choices:

A causes B
B causes A
Some unknown X causes both A and B

So you think her drug use and prositituion caused her ugly early aging. I could claim with the exact same facts that her drug use and prostitution was caused by her dog-ugly bad looks. Or, I could conclude that she had some kind of genetic problem which caused her to look ugly, and because of her wretched appearance (she wasn't all that good-looking in the first photo you know...) turned to drugs.

Or maybe she was predisposed to some disease (genetic?) which predisposed her to abuse drugs, which could lead her to sell her body, and at the same time over the years turned her into the ugly old witch she was at the end.

Problem is bubba, you can't just decide A causes B without proof. *sigh* But people always trust what they see. Pathetic.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



logic? (4.27 / 18) (#3)
by Delirium on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:16:05 PM EST

You stupid stupid stupid naive fool. Did you never learn what we consider logic? Pathetic.

Most classes on logic will, as one of the first lessons, teach you not to preface your rebuttal of an argument by ad hominem attacks on the author of said argument.

[ Parent ]

Heh (1.00 / 24) (#5)
by DranoK on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:21:55 PM EST

You're even more pathetic than the author.

First, you try to sound intelligent with the obtuse use of '...author of said argument." *snicker*

Second, huh? Logic is the practice coming to a conclusion based on available information. There are many forms of logic. Oh, yeah, but you probably have never got off your fat ass and turned of the reruns of Mr. Spock. Yeah. That's 'logic'. *snort*

Last time I opened my eyes logic had nothing to do with presentation.

Idiot.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
indeed (4.00 / 12) (#10)
by Delirium on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:50:15 PM EST

I wasn't claiming that you didn't use logic at all in your post. You did present an argument of sorts, but it was presented in a rather distasteful way. You are correct in that it wasn't really an ad hominem fallacy though, as "you are an idiot" appeared to be merely an ancillary statement, rather than your primary argument.

Furthermore, I have received information that DranoK is in fact a goatfucker.

And nobody really likes goatfuckers. =|

[ Parent ]

Nope, not a goatfucker (3.36 / 11) (#13)
by John Milton on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:01:53 PM EST

A small child yes. Apparently he couldn't handle me rating obvious bits of flamebait down. Poor little thing had a temper tantrum. If we had a pacifier around, maybe he wouldn't have gone through my comment history giving me ones. He was smart enough to pick comments that were out of the way and in diary entries. Do you suppose he needs a lolly. That's how I usually shut small children up. Let's call his parents and tell them that a three year old shouldn't be on the internet.

Maybe I'll just get a website and post bad poetry about it.


"When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." -Elizabeth Cady Stanton


[ Parent ]
Yeah, that's it ;) (1.00 / 20) (#20)
by DranoK on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:14:15 PM EST

I'm a small child. Wow; I wish. If I were a small child I'd be a fucking genius. Oh, you mean emotionally speaking, right? Heh. Yeah, that's what you wanna think bubba. It makes it easier. Here's an alternate theory: I don't like you. I think you're pathetic. I really don't like your nick. You're a stupid intellectual wannabe who can't open his mind for a few split seconds and see things from a different view. You are why I hate humans.

Why do you need two links to your own pathetic comments? I don't deny I didn't go thru your comments and rate the unrated ones down. What's it matter? I just do it to piss people off. In your case, it seems to be working. You're the one who seems to be more upset than this than I am with flame. I always admit I like pissing people off. It's my goal in life sorta. Oh but you're sooooo important that people will click on your pitiful little links and think "Oh no! A tradgedy! Someone ABUSED K5!!!" *snicker*

Of course, your only attempt of flame or critisism at me is against your interpretation of my age. I could be 90, I could be 20, I could be a really smart sexy 11 year old you wanna fuck; you just don't know. You don't even think I'm a child -- you just like saying that because you think it pisses me off. It doesn't. ;) You simply disgust me.

*sigh* There is no challenge here.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
silly bully children (3.16 / 6) (#32)
by psctsh on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 11:11:29 PM EST

kids of pop, mine your eyes, theirs are fine, minds are fine, yours is not? tell them off!

[ Parent ]
Umm....huh? (1.00 / 6) (#57)
by DranoK on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 02:04:55 PM EST

I like incoherence as much as the next guy, but...um...eh? I'm sorry; I didn't follow.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
You seem to disagree (4.25 / 4) (#61)
by psctsh on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 08:06:31 PM EST

with the popular opinion of what's fun.

I'll let you decide for yourself who I was making fun of though...

[ Parent ]
Vogon! (3.83 / 18) (#23)
by rusty on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:19:39 PM EST

No, I've assessed all the evidence, and it's clear to me that DranoK is, in fact, a Vogon. Pointlessly bad attitude, proud refusal to evolve in any way, really painful poetry. It all points to Vogon in my book.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
My god! (3.00 / 6) (#50)
by CaptainZornchugger on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 08:40:32 AM EST

That really does read like vogon poetry!

I'm amazed!

(although the first one at the top of the page sounds more like it was written by agharta... odd)


Look at that chord structure. There's sadness in that chord structure.
[ Parent ]
You really don't understand, do you? (1.00 / 14) (#58)
by DranoK on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 03:18:42 PM EST

No, of course you don't. If I wasn't so busy today I'd give you a really good ass-whipping ;) Maybe later if I have the time.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
As scary as it is... (3.75 / 4) (#63)
by CaptainZornchugger on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 11:36:32 PM EST

I actually went and read all of it.

At least, all that you had posted.

And to be fair, most of it didn't sound like vogon poetry. An awful lot of it was pretty good.

All the stuff about the loss of Purpose and the experiment... that was kinda cool. And I really liked the replacement of religious arguments with dogs barking, and the UNIX commands to delete the book of life.

And in a simplified way, I think I can see where you're coming from now, in your inflammatory posts to K5.

But I still think you're being silly. This whole thing about deciding nothing matters, and Purpose is not necesssary, that frees you from having to think, and having to try. It may be true that Nihilism is the only philosophy that doesn't require a Kierkegaard-style leap of faith, but that doesn't make it interesting. Many of us here have had our nihilistic phase, and have moved on to actually discussing things. And as such, your meaningless flaming is not what we are here for. And we will do just as well to ignore you.

I'm sure I'm still misssing whatever point it is you actualy want to make. But I'm really drunk right now. I still wish you will lighten up and let people reach a realization of the meaningless of everything in their own time.

Have a nice day.


Look at that chord structure. There's sadness in that chord structure.
[ Parent ]
heh (none / 0) (#67)
by Delirium on Tue Jul 03, 2001 at 01:36:18 AM EST

FWIW, I like most of the poetry.

[ Parent ]
Just curious (3.00 / 10) (#11)
by marimba on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:54:41 PM EST

<Intentionally sounding pretentious to provoke flames>From whence comes this insatiable need to insult?</pretentiousness> Didn't your mommy cuddle you enough?

[ Parent ]
No, something much more basic (1.00 / 16) (#15)
by DranoK on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:05:34 PM EST

It's fun. I enjoy it. Some people play basketball. Some people play video games. I love pissing people off. go figure.

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
How sad. (n/t) (2.88 / 9) (#18)
by magney on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:09:58 PM EST


Do I look like I speak for my employer?
[ Parent ]

You're not very good at it. (3.55 / 9) (#25)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:37:16 PM EST

At best you're mildly annoying, that's all. If you want to actually piss people off, I would have to suggest doing it in person. You're never going to get someone angry by calling them names on K5.

[ Parent ]
I don't know (4.25 / 4) (#48)
by Xeriar on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 07:50:37 AM EST

DranoK seems pretty sensitive, actually. Guessing, I would say he's a twelve or (at best) thirteen year old with an oversized ego. Maybe an IQ of 120ish, best, but most individuals start growing up around 14 (that I've seen, anyway).

----
When I'm feeling blue, I start breathing again.
[ Parent ]
Are you trying to become untrusted? [nt] (3.00 / 8) (#17)
by Anonymous 6522 on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:09:37 PM EST

It sure as hell seems like it.

[ Parent ]
It's not about presentation? (4.10 / 10) (#19)
by ubernostrum on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:10:02 PM EST

Silly me...I guess I must have slept through Discrete Math, Symbolic Logic, and Intro to Logic, and missed the point completely. Here I thought presentation did have something to do with it, since logic is the science of thinking correctly, and ad hominem attacks are not only impolite, but also a diversion intended to muddle the thinking of observers. Perhaps you should offer some courses in logic, since apparently the entire tradition of Western thought going back to Aristotle has had it wrong all these years...

If you want to talk logic, fine. Just stick to valid argument forms; "modus stupid stupid stupid naive fool" wasn't one of them last time I took a logic class. Neither was "ad patheticum." But then it's been a couple of years, there could have been something I missed.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]

logic! (4.62 / 8) (#39)
by eLuddite on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 02:38:08 AM EST

Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy.

Person A makes claim X.
Person B points out that A's previous claims or actions contradict X.
Person B concludes that X must therefore be false.

In other words, an ad hominem argument criticizes someone for violating their own premises in the past. It is a fallacy because it is possible to be both a hypocrite and correct.

Quite a few people on kuro5hin incorrectly use ad hominem to describe an insult. The *statement* "you stupid poopyhead" is not an error in logic, it's an unimaginative insult. Almost everyone else on kuro5hin uses ad hominem as a synonym for an insulting *argument*. An insulting argument concludes with a disparaging assessment of the opponent based on evidence in the opponent's opinion or suggestions that the opponent's opinions must be false or inadequate. This isnt too bad but it's still a casual solecism of the original ad hominem construction.

I just wanted to get that out of my system and conclude with a plea for everyone on kuro5hin to make the minimal effort at being civil with each other. That goes for the cunts as well as the pricks.

---
God hates human rights.
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0) (#69)
by delmoi on Thu Jul 12, 2001 at 12:57:09 AM EST

It wouldn't. I think you are confusing 'logic' with 'retoric'
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Feh (3.78 / 14) (#7)
by slick willie on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:36:30 PM EST

Sure, that works in our classroom, but out in the big blue room, it's a different story.

The view you present removes personal responsibility from the equation. At some point in that woman's life, she made the choice to use drugs and/or prostitute herself. Can you give another (plausible) explanation for her rapid deterioration? I mean aside from this:

Or maybe she was predisposed to some disease (genetic?) which predisposed her to abuse drugs, which could lead her to sell her body, and at the same time over the years turned her into the ugly old witch she was at the end.
Since you value logic so much, I probably don't even need to mention Occam's Razor, but I will anyway.

"...there is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit."
--Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address

[ Parent ]
You naive fool (1.29 / 17) (#8)
by DranoK on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:40:12 PM EST

I merely offered spur of the moment alternate explanations. Of course you were too stupid to understand my point of the post so I will refrain from the impossible cause of educating you.

I simply pointed out the author's inability to grasp such simple concepts (as you do apparently) that would lead to the realization that the causality of her deterioration is, based on the facts at hand, in theory only. You're pathetic.

Just because you lack the ability to think of alternate explanations does not mean you're correct. /me smacks you with a baseball bat until you learn to keep your mouth shut unless you know for a fact you won't come off sounding half-witted and stupid. *snicker*

Cheers!

DranoK


Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence
--DranoK



[ Parent ]
Alternative explanations... (3.55 / 9) (#12)
by magney on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:55:34 PM EST

Can you give another (plausible) explanation for her rapid deterioration?
Malnutrition, and untreated STDs (untreated because a prostitute might fear being arrested if she goes to the hospital, or may not be able to afford treatment, or may not be allowed to escape). How's that for a start?

Undoubtedly drug use also probably contributed to her deteriorating physical condition, but some of us would argue that the War on Drugs, by criminalizing drug use, prevents people from getting proper treatment for their addiction.

Do I look like I speak for my employer?
[ Parent ]

Having now seen the images... (3.80 / 5) (#37)
by magney on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 02:00:47 AM EST

I didn't actually follow the link when I wrote that comment above. Now that I have, I'm even more convinced that malnutrition was a factor. I'm certainly no doctor, but those sunken cheeks look to my unprofessional eye like the sign of just plain not getting enough to eat.

Do I look like I speak for my employer?
[ Parent ]

Also.... (4.25 / 4) (#40)
by Malk-a-mite on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 03:35:33 AM EST

The sunken cheeks are common in herion addicts.

It's partially not eating enough and partially the drugs effect on your body.

I've seen this one close up. Someone I've known for about 7 years... she's a little younger than the lady in the photos but has the same sunken cheeks and eye sockets happening.

It sad to watch even when you only see the person once every few months. Even worse when you know very little you say will have an effect on their habit.

[ Parent ]

Also.... (4.66 / 3) (#54)
by Alarmist on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 11:30:40 AM EST

It's partially not eating enough and partially the drugs effect on your body.

It's also the effect of tooth loss. Dental hygiene is regarded as a luxury by many people.


[ Parent ]

what the hell? (3.66 / 3) (#46)
by streetlawyer on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 05:34:17 AM EST

untreated STDs (untreated because a prostitute might fear being arrested if she goes to the hospital

Jesus Christ, I'm an effete urbanite Brit living in a leafy suburb, with an idyllic rural childhood, but I swear I'm Iceberg Fucking Slim compared to some of you people.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]

D'oh! (4.06 / 15) (#9)
by quam on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:48:54 PM EST

I don't think your personal attack was necessary. Perhaps you meant to use the words "Hollywood Police" rather than "you" in your comment?

This posting is a MLP and not an op-ed. I do not give a personal opinion on the subject, I am merely relaying information from the Hollywood Police. Also, what exactly have I correlated? The quotes in the posting are those of the Hollywood Police Department and Court TV, and are not mine.

If you correlated the relay of information or statement of information as equal to the opinions of a messenger, then you are mistaken.

-- U.S. Patent 5443036 concerns a device for encouraging a cat to exercise by chasing a light spot.
[ Parent ]
Invalid assertion (3.66 / 15) (#21)
by ubernostrum on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:15:43 PM EST

I could claim with the exact same facts that her drug use and prostitution was caused by her dog-ugly bad looks.
No, actually you couldn't. If you notice, her looks deteriorate with time; if the drug use was caused by the looks, the ugliness would have come first, and the drug use and prostituion afterward. In the case, we have drug use and prostitution, then ugliness (she was never pretty, but she wasn't ugly when the first picture was taken). When A precedes B temporally, you cannot assert that B caused A. Sorry.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
Exactly (3.50 / 4) (#42)
by pallex on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 05:01:37 AM EST

This whole story is hilarious! A parody on drug laws, the police, and uninformed peoples laughable attempts at logic.
A classic.

[ Parent ]
Well, not exactly right.. (3.88 / 17) (#4)
by driph on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:21:51 PM EST

The police state such deterioration was caused by prostitution and drug use.
If accuracy were a concern on their part, the sentence would read, "The police state such deterioration was cause by illegalized prostitution and drug use."

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
not always (3.33 / 9) (#6)
by strlen on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 07:33:08 PM EST

true, illegalized prostitution and the war on drugs deeply hurt the society, but i think you can have syphillis without the war on drugs, and you're a crack head no matter what kind of laws govern the crack you're smoking. however, if there was no anti-prostitution laws, people would have had access to better medication, better environment, and an a way out. but you can't rule out the effects of drugs as simply being the function of war on drugs.

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
legal vs illegal (4.75 / 8) (#31)
by driph on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 11:00:42 PM EST

A shot of benzathine penicillin will cure syphillis within the first year. A penicillin IV will cure it after that. If prostitution were legal, however, that stage would never be reached. In Nevada counties where prostitution is legal, all workers are tested on a very regular basis, preventing the stage and set in of most diseases that could possibly be contracted. Also, all sex workers are required to use condoms.

If drugs were legal, there wouldn't be too many crackheads in it's current form. A good deal of the problems people encounter due to illegal drug use isn't the drug, it's what the drug is cut with(additional agents added into the drug mixture allowing more of the same original volume to be sold). DXM in Ecstasy, brick dust in heroin, etc. Most overdoses are a result of inconsistant levels. A gram of cocaine is not a gram of cocaine.

Those that do allow themselves to become addicted, have very little recourse. It's not so fun to seek help for something that is illegal.

So yes, I would say that woman is a victim of the war on drugs.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]

yeah (3.25 / 4) (#34)
by strlen on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 11:46:40 PM EST

yeah, you're right. but legalizing drugs won't take care of all the problems associated with them. there's deeper social issues, as well. look at alcohol for instance, there's still alcoholics. obviously the prohibition had extremely bad results, but the problem still exists. not to say drugs shouldn't be de-criminalized: i fully support decriminalization efforts.

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
sorry, no. (3.00 / 2) (#45)
by streetlawyer on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 05:31:36 AM EST

Try walking around Amsterdam, or Hamburg, and you'll see plenty faces like that. Being a drug-addicted prostitute is not a healthy career whatever the legal system. In fact, it's probably *healthier* in places where it's illegal, because you take the occasional "holiday" in prison.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
No, I think the idea was.... (none / 0) (#66)
by John Milton on Sat Jun 30, 2001 at 05:40:38 PM EST

If prostitution was legalized and regulated, she might not have been addicted. It depends. Sometimes addiction leads to prostitution, because it's an easy stream of money to support the habit. Other times, pimps get their prostitutes addicted to control them.


"When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." -Elizabeth Cady Stanton


[ Parent ]
"drugs and prostitution" ??? (4.75 / 24) (#22)
by localroger on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:18:36 PM EST

While it's well understood how certain drugs (especially alcohol) can prematurely age you, either by chronically upsetting homeostasis or excessive oxidant overload, I have yet to see any convincing evidence that excessive sex will result in your face becoming sunken and haggard -- whether you are paid for it or not.

On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that malnutrition and constant stress can cause these effects, and these are results of the illegalization of activities, forced participation in an underground economy, constant threat of violence, and lack of resources for basic health maintenance.

If she had had the connections to make her trade as a high-class call girl and spent ten years snorting coke and drinking $80 bottles of wine, with police discreetly paid off and prompt medical attention to any unpleasant venereal problems and keeping most of her money for herself instead of giving most or all of it to a pimp, I suspect she would look a lot better today.

I can haz blog!

probably some bias (4.25 / 12) (#26)
by John Milton on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:46:48 PM EST

It would be more interesting to see a representative sample. They probably picked the worst case scenario. I doubt this comes as a shock to anyone though. Prostitutes have a tough life. Who knew?! On the other hand, prostitution is legal in Nevada. It's certainly legal in the Netherlands. It would be nice to see a comparision between the state of prostitutes when they work legally and illegally.


"When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." -Elizabeth Cady Stanton


What! Are you nuts? :-) (3.42 / 7) (#33)
by WinPimp2K on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 11:31:57 PM EST

Are you trying to make a case for legalized drug use and prostitution?

I would also be interested in a considerably broader survey, but in places where prostitution is legal (Nevada) and both drugs and prostitution is legal (Netherlands) the police might have trouble providing such extensive photographic evidence. After all what would they be arresting the poor girls for?

I recall hearing that pimps (not to be confused with WinPimps please) often would get their girls addicted to make them easier to control. If that is indeed a common tactic then decriminalization of drugs might have interesting "unintended consequences" on illegal prostitution.

Jokes aside, I actually think something like what the police did is actually a good idea. They should simply use only photos of those who have died - and make it a part of an education-based War on Drug Abuse - not part of the War on Drugs.

[ Parent ]

Prostitution, too? (3.00 / 9) (#27)
by marlowe on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 08:51:29 PM EST

It would be interesting to see a chart of her hourly rates. I would expect to see a steep downward trend.

Unless there are fetishists who are into unhealthy looking women. Maybe something akin to necrophilia.

-- The Americans are the Jews of the 21st century. Only we won't go as quietly to the gas chambers. --
This is fucking SICK (3.57 / 14) (#28)
by Blarney on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 09:21:33 PM EST

I don't care how much you believe in "individual responsibility" or Jesus or Ayn Rand, this is sick. This woman has been in and out of jail for 10 years. Our wonderful elected government knows of her existence. They should be helping her. She belongs locked up in a hospital somewhere until such time as she is healthy, at which point she should be taught some sort of useful trade besides prostitution. Then she could lead a normal life. Too bad the government doesn't want to help her - they WANT her to be sick. She makes a great poster child. Her picture warns us not to do the sort of things that make the authorities angry, or we will end up like her! If she got drug treatment and some sort of education for a non-prostitution job, she could be a normal member of society - but they'd rather watch her roll in and out of jail, snap photos, and put them up on their fucking website. They don't want to help this woman. They're using her as a symbol, not giving a fuck about the actual human person.

The fucking sorry wastes of sperm and eggs who put up this site ought to have their police badges shoved up their asses. What happened to "to protect and serve"?

sure sounds easy .. (3.80 / 5) (#29)
by gbroiles on Thu Jun 28, 2001 at 10:42:47 PM EST

but it's perfectly possible that people did try to help her. There are some people in bad circumstances who need a little help and understanding. And there are also some people in bad circumstances who will get themselves in bad circumstances over and over and over again, no matter how much "help" they get, until they die or change their own minds.

It's sad to see the police use this person's unfortunate life as political propaganda to support their pro-criminalization pro-enforcement viewpoint - but it's also sad to see people use her unfortunate life, especially without knowing more about her, to support simplistic "help the poor" propaganda.

How many people reading this story, and these comments, would have wanted to hire her to work in your company - or rented her a room in your house - 5 or 6 pictures into that sequence, with multiple prostitution and drug arrests on her record? Or is that the sort of help that other people ought to be giving, but not you?

Do you really think that people become "healthy" when involuntarily committed to government-run hospitals?



[ Parent ]

Strangely Enough.... (3.00 / 3) (#36)
by Blarney on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 12:59:16 AM EST

How many people reading this story, and these comments, would have wanted to hire her to work in your company - or rented her a room in your house - 5 or 6 pictures into that sequence, with multiple prostitution and drug arrests on her record?

Good point! Makes you wonder why people were willing to pay her for sex, doesn't it?

[ Parent ]

I think they do care. (4.00 / 6) (#35)
by John Milton on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 12:02:03 AM EST

A lot of the police do care about prostitutes. There are some police officers who do it just for the power, but most just want to help people. They see a women like that who is addicted and treated like and animal, and they want to warn others. No one wants her to be sick. Many times the police will try to help them into drug counseling.

I don't agree with the situation either. I think that legalization of drugs, and mandatory physicals for prostitutes would be a good solution. Just don't assume that the police are evil monsters who hated this woman. They are trying to serve and protect. Maybe they're doing it the wrong way, but their intentions aren't usually bad. Just because you only hear about the bad cops doesn't mean there aren't good ones.


"When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." -Elizabeth Cady Stanton


[ Parent ]
Sun & Speed (3.57 / 7) (#38)
by epcraig on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 02:36:41 AM EST

She likes to get her tan, she has really bad taste in makup, and either speed or AIDS caused the weight loss.
You see the same effects (without the whoring necessarily contributing) in any bar near any beach, the closer to the equater the more pronounced.
Whites should learn to avoid tanning (let alone sunburn).
There is no EugeneFreeNet.org, there is an efn.org
looks like heroin to me (4.00 / 3) (#44)
by streetlawyer on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 05:26:46 AM EST

Speed? I think not. There's no lesions or other AIDS stigmata either. I agree on the effect of sun, but the main thing that's wrong with the later facts is what you might call "heroin cheeks". I don't know the precise physical cause, but it always seems to happen to heroin users; you actually start off looking really good because you have these sharp cheekbones, but they just keep sinking and sinking .... check out young and old photos of Chet Baker.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
Interesting point, but ... (4.33 / 3) (#51)
by Simon Kinahan on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 09:48:28 AM EST

There are some people who became addicted to herion due to medical treatment and have had it prescribed for them every since. There was a recent documentary on Channel 4 that showed some of these people, and they didn't have this symptom.

Maybe its due to the uncontrolled dose, or cutting substances, usually features of street herion ?

Simon

If you disagree, post, don't moderate
[ Parent ]
What prostitution story is complete (3.40 / 5) (#41)
by Wah on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 04:50:44 AM EST

Without a link to St. Paul's Prostitutes and Horny Folk of the week web page. And I'd include a link to The Smoking Gun's posting of some of the e-mail questions that the public at large has had about this, but I can't find it (you'd think they'd be able to FOIA a search engine).
--
Some things, bandwidth can't buy. For everything else, there's Real Life | SSP
I had nothing better to do (4.00 / 2) (#56)
by Aphexian on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 01:05:57 PM EST

And I haven't read the site in a while.

The story is called "The Harlot Letters" and it is right here
[I]f there were NO religions, there would be actual, true peace... Bunny Vomit
[ Parent ]
Where is their evidence? (4.55 / 9) (#43)
by Tezcatlipoca on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 05:09:49 AM EST

Can they show the study that shows a reasonable link between prostitution and what happened to this poor woman?

No they can't.

This is scaremongering combined with nanying people around.

And I guess they asked permission of the woman to publish her pictures as well. Yeah, sure.

Pathetic.

Might is right
Freedom? Which freedom?
Is This a Circus? Who Has the Problem? (4.40 / 5) (#52)
by quam on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 11:08:48 AM EST

Yesterday, the Court TV story concerning these web pages was on Court TV's home page. The mere fact this was a 'leading story' leads me to believe Court TV was glorifying this woman's misery. This is further shown in the article by Court TV's statement that: "[f]or anyone with doubts about the devastating effects of prostitution, a new Web site will dispel them in vivid color. At www.hollywoodpolice.org, police officers in one Florida town created a pictorial of a decade in the life of one prostitute. And it isn't pretty."

What also striked me to be unusual about this article and these Web pages is the perception of the public by the Hollywood Police. According to the article, a police Lieutenant states, "[w]e thought it would be a good notice for the community to let people know how terrible prostitution is .... Most people think that prostitution is like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman and nothing could be further from the truth." If this woman's misery is glorified merely to demonstrate prostitution is not the same as the life of prostitution in Pretty Woman then this is an ignorant society. One reviewer at imdb referred to the movie as "a contemporary Hollywood fairy tale." Certainly, society's perceptions of prostitution are not equivalent to those portrayed in a fairy tale produced eleven years ago.

Finally, the Hollywood Police seem to have a "not in my backyard" attitude towards prostitution. At the end of the interview on Court TV, the police Lieutenant exclaims, "[a]s you know, Florida is a tourist state, so we act on complaints that we do get .... If you were a business owner you certainly wouldn't want these women or men hanging around." While the Lieutentant does not plainly assert prostitutes should leave Florida, he does assert prostitutes should be moved away from others. Perhaps the Lieutentant is ignorant that prostitutes advertise their bodies not only on the streets, but in the yellow pages, in massage shops, on the Web, in newspaper classifieds, by word-of-mouth and other means. Surely, the Lieutentant is not also suggesting the businesses or people facilitating these forms of advertisement should move the prostitutes along?

Ironically, while the Hollywood police attempts to curtail prostitution with these Web pages, the Hollywood Police is, instead, glorifying the social and humanitarian problems existing in their own community.

-- U.S. Patent 5443036 concerns a device for encouraging a cat to exercise by chasing a light spot.
Keep in mind this is State Run Propaganda (4.61 / 13) (#53)
by DontTreadOnMe on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 11:15:25 AM EST

Don't forget that this is state sponsored propaganda, intended to reverse the trend toward tolerance of sex workers in general (strippers, prostitues, etc.) and to counter the common-sense notion that "victimless crimes" are, well, not really crimes in the minds of many people. So, they take the most unfortunate perpetrators of these "crimes" and define them as "victims," then set them up as an example to others, implying that they are representative of the entire population when in fact they are but a tiny part of that demographic group, portraying the worst possible results of a particular lifestyle the majority disapproves of.

When living in Germany I actually had a friend (platonic) who attended the Technical University I was an exchange student at and who worked part time as a prostitute. She suffered none of the ills which this web page implies would affect her (and yes, we have kept in touch over the years and, now that she has graduated and is persuing an architectural career she no longer freelances on the side. However, the ten years or so she did work as a part time hooker did not leave her looking at all bad, nor did the occasional joint she smoked leave track marks on her arms.)

Anecdotal, yes. And precisely as relevant as the anecdotal photographs this site is spewing forth. The only thing this propaganda demonstrates (other than the woeful lack of taste of its authors) is that the working conditions for low-end prostitutes in the united states are atrocious. So too were the working conditions of coal workers in that same country ... however, we haven't banned coal mining just yet, nor are there plans to do so anytime soon (particularly now that the Kyoto Accords have been slain by our illustrious president). The solution to atrocious working conditions is of course legislation to improve those conditions. Oh wait, we can't do that, though, because prostitution is illegal and legalizing it would be "sending the wrong message" to our fragile children. Nevermind that countries all over the world which have legalized prostitution have nothing even remotely similar to what is portrayed here.

It all comes down to this: in order to send what some consider the "right" message to our children via public policy rather than just talking to our kids and teaching them right and wrong one-on-one (oh what a radical, almost irresponsible idea that!) we persue policies which we know to be counter productive, and which have been demonstrated to make the problems vastly worse. Why? Because we are more conderned with appearances than we are with practical results. Why else would the final justification for The War on Drugs and Criminization of the sex trade, after all the other arguments for these policies have been debunked, boil down to "but legalizing it would sent the wrong message to our children?" Never mind that nearly all of the social and personal ills which result are a direct result of policies making the practice illegal and not the practice itself ... it is the appearance, the "message" sent by such policies which concern our leaders, not the tangible real-world results.

Europe for the most part understands this, with the result that they have, for the most part, effective public policies in place and have avoided many of the social ills we in the US erroneously believe will never go away. The United States, being collassally unwilling to learn from others, will probably never understand this, making the prophetic notions that "these problems cannot ever be solved" a self-fullfilling prophesy with no relevance to reality beyond its own borders.


--
http://openflick.org - Fighting Copyright with Free Media
Sorry state of affairs..... (4.80 / 15) (#55)
by Elkor on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 12:52:48 PM EST

There was a discussion about these same photos on another board I am on.

Below is an excerpt from one of the posts.

(begin quote from Danger Grrl)

Though this is indeed sobering it is hardly an "effective argument" against legalization. I'm surprized that you would fall plunder to this type of shock propaganda.

Take into consideration the following:
1. These are only photos, no acompanying stories, no circumstances - just a series of photos taken over time.

2. All that we are told is that drugs are involved and prostitution is involved. What drugs (I'm guessing heroin from the rapid deteriation)? What about her pimp? Did she work for a pimp? Did she work for an escort house?

3. These photos are taken when prostitution and drugs are illegal - had prostitution been legalized and regulated, perhaps this woman would have had healthcare, or not had the stigma of the initial arrest - we don't know.

4. LOOK at how MANY times her mugshot was taken from arrests. Does this look like a system that works as is? Does it look like her arrests helped her "rehabilitate"?
I don't think so.

Yes, these photos are sobering. They sober me up to the fact that our justice system has tons of cracks for people to fall through. It makes me further aware of propaganda tactics to support certian laws that just DON'T work. And probably never will.
(end quote)

Regards,
Elkor

"I won't tell you how to love God if you don't tell me how to love myself."
-Margo Eve
Kasreyn (none / 0) (#60)
by Kasreyn on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 04:23:00 PM EST

You should credit that quote...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

-Sir Arthur C. Clarke

I'm assuming you found it somewhere online and didn't know who said it. =)


-Kasreyn


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
Quote... (none / 0) (#68)
by Elkor on Tue Jul 03, 2001 at 12:00:46 PM EST

Nope. I learned it in a High School Robotics program. I know who it is from, but keep forgetting. ;) Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,
Elkor

"I won't tell you how to love God if you don't tell me how to love myself."
-Margo Eve
[ Parent ]
Through a blue lense (4.50 / 2) (#64)
by geoswan on Sat Jun 30, 2001 at 05:07:24 AM EST

...Take into consideration ... [1] These are only photos, no acompanying stories, no circumstances - just a series of photos taken over time.

[3] These photos are taken when prostitution and drugs are illegal - had prostitution been legalized and regulated, perhaps this woman would have had healthcare, or not had the stigma of the initial arrest - we don't know.

There is a documentary, made in Vancouver, where beat officers from the portion of downtown frequented by hookers and junkies, carried around a camcorder. The most shocking part of this documentary is the progress of the youngest of the citizens they profiled. They interview her shortly after her arrival in the big city. She is eighteen. She looks terribly young and innocent. Like the woman in the series of photos she ages very rapidly. She loses her teeth. It was gruesome.

The reason why I am bringing it up is that there were more than a series of photos. There was no question that it was the young woman's lifestyle that did her in.

Here in Canada we have universal health care. A hooker or junkie would have had access to medical care here. Her deterioration was not due to lack of access to medical care.

Here is the URL to a description of the film: Through a blue lense http://www.nfb.CA/FMT/E/MSN/35/35852.html

[ Parent ]

More information on "Through a blue lense&quo (4.33 / 3) (#65)
by geoswan on Sat Jun 30, 2001 at 05:43:26 AM EST

I am following up my own post here, with some additional information. The cops who made this film have a non-profit organization set up. They have made other movies, they have followups on the people they profiled in "Through a blue lense". Sadly, the young woman I mentioned died last christmas. She was just 25 years old.

Here is a clip of her, not long before she died. Sorry it is real-video. http://www.oddsquad.com/BlueLens2.html

Here is her epitaph, and a more flattering picture of her. http://www.oddsquad.com/update/update_december2000.html

I too think that prohibition hasn't worked, and that drugs would pose less of a danger to public health if there were safe, regulated, legal sources.

[ Parent ]

Most likely cause (4.00 / 3) (#59)
by weirdling on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 04:04:25 PM EST

Street life is common to prostitutes in these days of illegality, and, of course, as aging in the sun makes one less attractive, one becomes less able to afford any kind of shelter, increasing the odds that one's earning potential will decrease. I somehow doubt this is true of high-priced call girls, though.
Once again, some sort of regressional analysis controlling for the most likely causes (drugs and street life) would be called for to prove that this is a result of prostitution.

I'm not doing this again; last time no one believed it.
Vitalogy (4.00 / 3) (#62)
by aonifer on Fri Jun 29, 2001 at 10:47:43 PM EST

This reminds me of a page from the liner notes of Pearl Jam's Vitalogy. It presumably is taken from a book that decries "self-pollution" and it shows two pictures of a guy. One shows a normal, healthy-looking person. The other (obviously touched-up) image shows a much older, more haggard-looking person with a caption detailing how masturbation put him in a mental asylum.

Sadly, people still fall for this crap.

Effects of Drugs and Prostitution | 69 comments (67 topical, 2 editorial, 2 hidden)
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