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Palestinians mourning WTC bombing

By Moneo in MLP
Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 10:39:33 PM EST
Tags: News (all tags)

Contrary to what is being shown on CNN, not all Palestinians are celebrating -- several are mourning Tuesdays events. I think this is important to show people since I doubt the mainstream US media will cover it. I first saw this on the Abu Dhabi Business Channel (sorry, couldn't find pics on the web -- the ones I saw were of schoolchildren waving palestinian flags and placing flowers under a sign saying something like "From the children of Palestine to American victims"); I then found this at IndyMedia; Dasunt then helped me find a picture of two Palestinian women mourning in Jerusalem here (8th pic from the top).


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Palestinians mourning WTC bombing | 30 comments (28 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Good for them. (1.71 / 14) (#1)
by marlowe on Thu Sep 13, 2001 at 10:25:40 PM EST

Now what about the rest? What have they to say for themselves?

-- The Americans are the Jews of the 21st century. Only we won't go as quietly to the gas chambers. --
Another guilt-by-association brought to you (3.69 / 13) (#2)
by localroger on Thu Sep 13, 2001 at 10:38:30 PM EST

...by the superpatriot camp at K5. Or did this URL somehow get misdirected to freerepublic.com by mistake? I'm starting to wonder.

I can haz blog!
[ Parent ]

"There goes the neighborhood"? (3.41 / 12) (#3)
by eLuddite on Thu Sep 13, 2001 at 10:53:06 PM EST

Now what about the rest? What have they to say for themselves?

"Ouch, stop beating me with the butt of your rifle."
"No, dear, there is no more food for the children."
"I'm so tired. I think I'll pretend to crack open a cold one and watch who wants to be a millionaire."

I'm begining to wonder if the reason you militant patriots are seeing so much red is because there's just too much pent up blood in you. Do New York and Kuro5hin a favor by donating it to Red Cross.

God hates human rights.
[ Parent ]

They are better than you. (4.00 / 15) (#5)
by ucblockhead on Thu Sep 13, 2001 at 11:34:34 PM EST

In America, we aren't supposed to hate people for their beliefs, or for their race.

Please learn how to be one. Until then, shut the fuck up.

Most of us are better than them. Want to know why some much of the world hates Americans? Because of Americans with attitudes like you. I am fucking sick and tired of assholes like you making the rest of us look bad.

(Like, I'm sure, most Palestinians feel about those few that cheered. You see, Mr. Marlowe, those cheering Palestinians are your spiritual brothers. Like you, they hate and cheer at death.)
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]

Conspiracy! (3.00 / 3) (#4)
by jasonab on Thu Sep 13, 2001 at 11:31:35 PM EST

I think this is important to show people since I doubt the mainstream US media will cover it.
I'm sure Bush, Rupert and Ted Turner are conspiring to keep these images off of US television.

Backup for my statement (4.40 / 5) (#15)
by Moneo on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 04:00:20 AM EST

Whether or not you choose to use the word 'conspiracy', US media has a decidedly anti-Arab (and generally pro-Israeli) bias. Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting discusses it here, here, here and here.
Propaganda plays the same role in a democracy as violence does in a dictatorship. -- Noam Chomsky
[ Parent ]
Media Bias (4.75 / 4) (#29)
by jethro on Sat Sep 15, 2001 at 02:44:11 PM EST

Actually, in the past year or two the media bias has shifted to a thoroughly Pro-Palestenian and Anti-Israeli one.

I keep posting this example, but I actually heard a report on NPR where they talked to a Palestenian who lost 'his' land, and the reported commented that "Scenes like these make it hard to sympathise with the three Israeli teenagers who were clubbed to death".

Face it, the media sides with the underdog. Israel USED to be the underdog, surrounded by seven enemy Arab countries. Now they're at peace with two of them (granted, the peace with Egypt isn't perfect, but still), Lebanon is out of the picture, Iraq and Iran are too busy fighting amongst themselves, etc. While suffering from a huge wave of terrorism, the American media was portraying it as being completely provoked and called for.

For the record, I'm an Israeli citizen living in the US, probably be a US citizen soon too. I do NOT think all Palestenians are bad, or evil, or celebrating. I _do_ know that there _is_ a _large_ faction of them that are goaded on to celebrate and hate by a few old men who don't even know what they're fighting for anymore.

It's the fanatic fundementalists that should be taken care of, and then some EDUCATION must be applied to the Masses.

Same goes for Israel, but in a less complicated way - the Israeli ruling body does actually get replaced occasionally.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
[ Parent ]
Lies, damn lies... (2.42 / 14) (#6)
by J'raxis on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 12:01:17 AM EST

Oh, it gets even better than that. The videos being shown on CNN of the Palestinians the attacks on the W.T.C are apparently a BLATANT LIE. From another IndyMedia article:
A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991, with the very same images; he's been sending emails to CNN, Globo (the major TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify as a crime against the public opinion.
I for one will never trust CNN again. The news media never ceases to amaze me. This is truly despicable.

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]

Evidence? (4.00 / 5) (#7)
by Osiris on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 12:44:30 AM EST

I read the article you linked to. The poster is a vitriolic asshole, which immediately throws his credibility into doubt. If he can cough up the evidence he mentions, then I'll believe him.

[ Parent ]
Long wait (3.80 / 5) (#11)
by rusty on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 01:22:03 AM EST

If he can cough up the evidence he mentions, then I'll believe him.

<indymedia>But I heard from this one dude in Seattle that this other dude's teacher's wife is like an oppressed garment worker in like Malaysia, and she said that Ted Turner is like totally in the pocket of the Bush/Cheney corporate alliance. Like when's the next protest?</indymedia>

C'mon, no one believes what they read in indymedia anymore, do they? (Note, I think it's sad that such a good idea (IMC) has been taken over by such a pack of idiots. But such is life...)

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Sigmonster can't wait. (none / 0) (#18)
by Apuleius on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 04:23:32 AM EST


There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
[ Parent ]
Originally, I didn't trust IndyMedia either (4.25 / 4) (#21)
by frabcus on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 01:43:43 PM EST

During the G8 summit, the police raided the building of the Genoa Social Forum where IndyMedia was reporting from. I didn't believe the report on IndyMedia. Surely a Western European police force wouldn't beat people to a bloody mess without giving them a chance to surrender, wouldn't they just calmly arrest them?

Initial mainstream media reports backed my feelings up - they had iron-bars, knives, blunt objects and black T-shirts, dammit!

It took nearly a week before the protestors allegations were reported in the mainstream media, with enough evidence for me to believe it is true. Even now there has been no definitive report, although the Italians have admitted excessive force.

[ Parent ]

I know (4.25 / 4) (#26)
by rusty on Sat Sep 15, 2001 at 01:32:24 AM EST

I'm not saying everything they print is wrong, just that on the whole they're less reliable than most other sources of information. Basically, I place them in the "extremist propaganda" spectrum. For every extremist looking for good propaganda, something eventually happens that conveniently supports their viewpoint. So they get to report the truth *and* get a nice spin out of it. But accuracy in general is not the primary motivation for anyone writing there, which makes it basically useless as a source of information, for me.

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
IndyMedia goofs again. (4.80 / 5) (#9)
by Apuleius on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 01:09:04 AM EST

Besides CNN being not dumb enough to do that without labeling the footage as stock footage, turns out one kid in the clip wore a shirt from the 1998 FIFA cup.

There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
[ Parent ]
Most Palestinians are good people... (4.75 / 4) (#12)
by Lode Runner on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 02:31:21 AM EST

They don't deserve to have IndyMedia claiming to be on their side.

Seriously, the images of the few truly idiotic Palestinians who were celebrating in the last were recorded by Arab journalists and distributed to Arab satellite networks as well as the Beeb and CNN. Nobody but a fringe doubts their veracity.

The anti-Israel Lebanon Daily Star had this to say. Or if you don't believe that you can compare the clothing and buildings of the Palestinian celebrants to those of the early 90s.

The sad truth is that there really were Palestinians celebrating the carnage in America and that those idiots will demonize those Palestinians who grieved along with us.

[ Parent ]

Or... not (4.00 / 4) (#20)
by delmoi on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 11:39:08 AM EST

Supposedly if you watch the video, you can see a kid running around in a collage football jersy. The player who's name appears played in 95-97. So the video could not have been shot in 1991.

I don't have a cite, but if anyone else does chime in.
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
But surely? (2.50 / 4) (#8)
by stuartf on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 12:53:06 AM EST

Surely all those Johnny Foreigners are the same, stinkin towelheads, plotting to overthrow the US at every opportunity. <Sarcasm ends>

Of course they're sad, they're humans as well.

And on the other side of things.. (4.50 / 6) (#10)
by Apuleius on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 01:16:40 AM EST

JERUSALEM (September 14) - The Foreign Press Association expressed deep concern yesterday over life threats made to journalists by the Palestinian Authority, after PA security personnel on Tuesday tried to prevent photo and video coverage of a rally in Nablus where hundreds of Palestinians celebrated the terror attacks in New York and Washington.

I'm going to be flamed to the ground for saying this, but it needs to be said. American Southern culture was once backward as hell, as shown by Jim Crow. Palestinian culture is backward as hell as shown by these celebrations. There are exceptions to every rule, but the way to change the rule isn't to dwell on the exceptions, but to let the Palestinians understand how disgusted the world is at that display.

There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
Americans being backwards (4.00 / 2) (#14)
by Moneo on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 03:47:49 AM EST

I was going to write a response to this but then I realized that I probably couldn't say it any better than bobsquatch did.

While I'm posting, I'd like to ask: Why do you assume that the Palestinians celebrating are the "rule" rather than the "exceptions"?

Propaganda plays the same role in a democracy as violence does in a dictatorship. -- Noam Chomsky
[ Parent ]

The answer to your question. (2.00 / 4) (#17)
by Apuleius on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 04:18:37 AM EST

Because it's been a long pattern of behavior with the Palestinians, long before the WTC bombing. Schadenfreude festivities are very common in Palestinian cities. And you goofed your link.

There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
[ Parent ]
Find the truth (3.00 / 1) (#28)
by paulT on Sat Sep 15, 2001 at 12:42:44 PM EST

Why not find out the truth before making accusations based on assumptions?

"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
[ Parent ]
Well (3.00 / 2) (#19)
by delmoi on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 11:36:49 AM EST

If I were a palestinian, I'd probably be celebrating now too...
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Images from 1991. (1.40 / 5) (#22)
by urgan on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 08:27:33 PM EST

For two times i've commented that something is wrong with these images. Someone found out sooner, these images are from 1991. This person, identified, has a tape from 1991 showing people celebrating the invasion from 1991. It's CNN images, someone here may also have it. It doesn't matter now, the harm is done but at least some of you will hopefully know the truth.

link (2.75 / 4) (#24)
by Arkady on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 10:05:44 PM EST

Here's a link to CounterPunch's article describing (and supporting) that finding.


Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere Anarchy is loosed upon the world.

[ Parent ]
Thanks. (3.20 / 5) (#25)
by urgan on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 10:14:49 PM EST

I hope someone produces something more substancial though, like a reference to an online archive, a translation or the original video and date. Even if it doesn't prove anything because the poison already made effect.

[ Parent ]
we've already discussed this here (4.60 / 5) (#27)
by Lode Runner on Sat Sep 15, 2001 at 02:16:08 AM EST

You're wrong, Counterpunch is wrong, and IndyMedia is wrong.

As upsetting as they are, the pictures and films of Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 outrage are genuine. In short, the films they were shot by Palestinian cameramen, they were aired on Arabic satellite stations (as well as CNN), the PA punished the celebrants and threatened the cameramen, and the smoking gun is in the clothing and buildings.

Ample proof of my assertion can be found in responses to this post, which incidentally appears right here in this very story.

If you want to look at it another way, crying wolf does no good to the Palestinian cause, and, considering the anti-Arab rhetoric in America right now, endangers other people too.

Well, it's interesting that Counterpunch and IndyMedia both posted the same (almost word for word) report... that's too bad because there are times when I've admired Counterpunch. IndyMedia's beyond salvation, IMHO.

[ Parent ]

Words from an Arab on another list I'm on... (5.00 / 7) (#23)
by skim123 on Fri Sep 14, 2001 at 08:45:54 PM EST

Just wanted to share an email an Arab member of another list I was on shared, felt related to the topic, especially since I've heard a lot of the setniment, "Let's f--king kick these Arabs out of this country."

> Dear friends and family:
> For those of you who know people in New York or Washington DC, I
> hope and pray with you that they are safe.
> All of us are shocked by this; there is simply no way to even
> think about this tragedy as reality, much less express thoughts
> on it. My colleagues and I watched from Palestine in horror as
> the news continued to break.
> I also received very well meaning and concerned e-mails from
> several of you regarding the Palestinian reaction here and my
> safety.
> In Ramallah, all I saw was shock and fear -- many have family or
> friends in New York and Washington. I saw no dancing, no
> celebrating, no handing out of sweets. But on my television at
> home, we were able to get footage from CNN and ABC News showing
> such scenes. The footage was taken in Jerusalem, and the twenty
> or so people you saw in the streets were the only participants
> as far as I can tell from friends in Jerusalem. The streets
> here were deserted as most people kept their eyes glued to the
> television or their ears glued to the radio. Probably much the
> same as in the United States.
> As for the thought of Palestinian involvement, it is nearly
> unthinkable. I realize that those were the initial reports, but
> they were quickly denied by the leaders of all the Palestinian
> groups. The international media and US political leaders
> interviewed by them are quick to point out the possible
> connections to Ossama bin Laden. Frankly, no one knows, and
> understanding the kind of evil that must be behind the attack is
> impossible.
> I do have a concern: that because of the world's attention on
> Arabs for responsibility, I think that there is a serious danger
> of all Arabs suddenly becoming stigmatized or even abused. We
> don't like to look at what America did to Japanese Americans
> after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. That was a horrific
> attack, as was the Terrorism we saw yesterday. But the Japanese
> in America did not deserve to pay the price, and neither do the
> Arab Americans -- or Arabs anywhere -- today.
> I know that you are praying with me for the souls of those lost,
> and peace of those left to cope with the tragedy. One friend
> wrote of singing with her colleagues the words of Nelson
> Mandela: "Love is stronger than hate. Life is stronger than
> death. God is stronger than all." It is difficult but necessary
> to have that kind of faith in the midst of all of the hatred and
> fear we are slapped with during this time.
> For the time being I am planning on staying here. If there is
> fear of reprisal in this part of the world, I do promise that I
> will move myself to safety.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum

Accusations against CNN recanted (5.00 / 2) (#30)
by paulT on Sun Sep 16, 2001 at 11:41:12 AM EST

In two posts, here and here, an accusation that CNN used 10 year old footage of Palestinians celebrating has been presented here. Marcio A. V. Carvalho of State University of Campinas - Brazil;, who made the claims has now recanted. His post to Indymedia is as follows:

Dear all,

Last September 13, I've sent an email to a social theory list in which I provided some information about the falsity of the images of Palestinian celebration for the terrorism in USA, information given to me by a teacher. I spent the last day looking for that teacher, and, unfortunately, when I found her, she DENIED having access to such images.

She said that she was sure she had seen the images back in 1991, but SHE CAN'T PROVE. She was not willing to provide further information, DENYING what she had said before to a full class of students.

I sincerely apologize for this uncertain information; unfortunately I can't prove the information contained in my last post; IT'S ONLY A CONJECTURE, THAT THOSE IMAGES OF PALESTINIANS CELEBRATING IS FALSE. I bought the idea myself, and reproduced it for you because of the importance of it, in the case it was to be confirmed.

Whatever news I get I'll pass to you.

Best regards

Márcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil

"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
Palestinians mourning WTC bombing | 30 comments (28 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
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