Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
White House acknowledges secret germ factory

By Leadfoot180 in MLP
Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 06:05:29 PM EST
Tags: Science (all tags)
Science

The White House acknowledges the presence of a germ research factory that was built during the Clinton years


It was announced this past Tuesday that there is yet another secret "factory" out in the hot Nevada desert. Conspiracy theorists beware, they're after you ;-)

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o announced
o Also by Leadfoot180


Display: Sort:
White House acknowledges secret germ factory | 32 comments (30 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Inevitable paranoia (4.00 / 3) (#3)
by anansi on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 03:12:53 PM EST

On the one hand, Evrything out of the mouth of the CIA is suspect. They admitted to using the NYC subways for testing germ warfare methods in the 60's, no doubt they're reluctant to 'fess up to more recent atrocities.

OTOH, it's a perfectly plausable story. And of course they wouldn't want to open-source their research (for defensive purposes only) for fear of giving the bad guys ideas. Besides, if and when they use bio-war agents, they're not going to admit it's coming from the US.

On the gripping hand, isn't this how arms races are started?

Don't call it Fascism. Use Musollini's term: "Corporatism"

Er... (3.66 / 3) (#9)
by trhurler on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 07:07:50 PM EST

Given the nature of the tests in the NYC subways, I'd hardly call them an "atrocity." Ill advised and possibly illegal, but "atrocity" is a word that should be reserved for situations where people are deliberately and seriously harmed in some manner. Otherwise, it loses its impact; see the current Onion article about Disney's use of the word "classic" for further deliberation on meaning-dilution. I'm not aware of anyone except gold diggers who ever even claimed that the NYC subway experiments ever harmed anyone even as much as you'd be harmed when the harebrain at McDonald's sneezes on your food, which you can pretty much bet has happened to you before and will happen again, substituting your eatery of choice for McDonald's, of course.

As for biological defense, this isn't the only program, nor is it in any way that is apparent illegitimate; if we wanted to mass produce illegal weapons, we could do so without ever having to admit it publicly, but in order to make a biological defense most useful, it has to be publicly known that this defense exists. The best way to do that is to leak it, because that way, it is more credible. This way, attackers may believe the defense is real, which is good, and therefore believe that if they attack, their attack will largely be thwarted, and they will then face retaliation.

As for arms races, the arms race was on the day some medieval military mind decided to hurl corpses over castle walls as a means of warfare; the choice is not whether your opponent arms himself, but merely whether you can defend against him, and has been for centuries.

The last is a subtle point, but one worth thinking over twice or three times: a defender is not morally responsible for the actions of an aggressor. The attitude of people against defenses on arms race grounds is like saying women should not carry pepper spray because if they do, rapists might start carrying gas masks and handguns more often. (Exclude from this condemnation those who oppose missile defense because it is seen as infeasible; whether it is feasible or not is another issue, but at least they have a reasonable argument.) Blame lies with the aggressor.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
What worries me... (3.50 / 4) (#4)
by jd on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 03:44:00 PM EST

...is that the conspiracy theorists are beginning to sound -TAME-! Maybe the CIA is actually a plot by conspiracy theorists to make us THINK that there are secret conspiracies going on...

Seriously, I'm amazed it's taken the US this long to admit to it. The British have been (relatively) open about the existance of Porton Down.

Actually, if you flip over to that WW II MLP, you'll find an entry that says that the British experimented with anthrax-treated cattle-feed, during World War 2. Interesting how the British have been having problems with cattle, ever since... :)

Does this actually surprise anyone? (3.50 / 4) (#5)
by Inoshiro on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 06:09:54 PM EST

After reading most of "Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower," I find it hard to NOT believe the worst. The US government, because of its size and structure, has so many levels of people who can so easily hide things. And the executive levels of the Federal government are untouchable by the common people (who are abstracted away by such things as electoral colleges, and the 2 party/republocrat system).

The US Federal government needs to be redesigned by someone from the UN, kinda like how a group of nations redid Japan's government after WW2. Then maybe we wouldn't have to contend with a nationalistic, imperialistic, nation that likes to train people on torture at the "School of the Americas," and other horrible things which no one should support. It'd also be nice if the US would seek balance with how it deals with other nations, rather than just being bed-buddies with Israel (aka the only nation every reported on in "CNN international," excepting who is being bombed this week).



--
[ イノシロ ]
Inoshiro the troll?:) (3.50 / 10) (#6)
by trhurler on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 06:34:29 PM EST

Come on, man...
The US Federal government needs to be redesigned by someone from the UN
I'd gladly join the US military to fight any attempt at that. The UN is nothing more than a socialist mouthpiece. We'd end up with the United States of Europe. By the time they were done, we'd have no guns, 70% tax rates, pay $10 a gallon for gas, have a half ass socialist health care system that treated everyone equally badly(can you say "month long wait for a routine diagnostic procedure?",) and it'd be illegal to not give your land over to the Sierra Club if any endangered bird ever happened to land on it even once for a few moments.
Then maybe we wouldn't have to contend with a nationalistic, imperialistic, nation
That isn't your own. European powers did the same thing when they could, and your lovely Canada would love to, but can't, because it doesn't have the means. The same can be said of any powerful nation; the former USSR did it, and China is doing it, and that's just the way things are. It isn't right, but it IS the normal state of affairs in powerful countries.
ation that likes to train people on torture at the "School of the Americas,"
Which hasn't been done for at least 15 years, and probably longer than that. Nobody is even making the claim that anything improper goes on there today; the protesters are just pissed about history and want the school to close out of spite. These days, it trains a lot of very important people in a lot of militaries that are defending legitimate elected governments against both left and right wing rebels trying to institute military governments.
and other horrible things which no one should support
And which you aren't going to tell us about - but boy, are they horrible!
It'd also be nice if the US would seek balance with how it deals with other nations
Which ones, precisely? We seem to get along well enough with Canada, and most of the rest of the Americas for that matter. Europe doesn't like us, but we don't seem to have much against Europe. (Jealousy is amusing.) Granted, we're not real keen on countries that are intent on developing military capabilities that outrank our own and which have in the past been very aggressive and dominated by ideologies we oppose(China,) but neither is Canada, and neither is Europe(just look at Europe's attitude towards the US!:)
rather than just being bed-buddies with Israel
When's the last time you read the headline "Israel blows up bus full of little kids"?! You didn't. On the other hand, when's the last time you saw "Hamas attacks legitimate military target"? Oh, that's right - YOU DIDN'T! The entire Palestinian "government" is nothing but the world's largest terrorist front organization; why Israel even tolerates its existence is beyond me. (No, I'm not Jewish. I am however unwilling to pretend that the Palestinians are doing anything BUT actively engaging in what we commonly recognize as "war crimes.") The present "conference on racism" is a very apt display of what would happen to Israel without US support, and if you can tell me you think there's any justice there, then clearly you never knew the meaning of the word.
(aka the only nation every reported on in "CNN international," excepting who is being bombed this week).
Admittedly, most US citizens don't give a rat's ass about any location outside the US unless we're attacking it, occupying it, or it is a good vacation spot. For all the bluster to the contrary, neither do most Canadians or members of most other countries. The only reason the US is singled out is because the US is the most visible about it, having dominant media and so on.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
Fight for that if you want (2.66 / 3) (#17)
by Wah on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 11:54:50 PM EST

but I don't want to live in a prison. I don't want to go anywhere in the world and have to deal with people who hate me because I live in a country with people who think like you do. A country that keeps people in virtual slavery (yea, argue that if you wish) because it's the only way the economy can look good. A country that makes it's living off of death and destruction. A country that can't care for it's sick and stupid. All so you can feel better than someone else.

now on to the stupid stuff you said.....

[skipping the first paragraph because it's just pathetic fear-mongering]

It isn't right, but it IS the normal state of affairs in powerful countries.

i.e. What we're doing is wrong, but it keeps me rich, so fuck off.

These days, it trains a lot of very important people in a lot of militaries that are defending legitimate elected governments against both left and right wing rebels trying to institute military governments.

Which is the exact same thing they said before. Right before they overthrew those damn democratic governments that didn't give U.S. businesses the best deals. That is, the business we couldn't steal from using Eschelon.

The entire Palestinian "government" is nothing but the world's largest terrorist front organization; why Israel even tolerates its existence is beyond me.

Haha, maybe because it's considered uncool nowadays to commit genocide? You would think the Jews could have figured that out by now.

The present "conference on racism" is a very apt display of what would happen to Israel without US support, and if you can tell me you think there's any justice there, then clearly you never knew the meaning of the word.

And it's a very clear instruction on just how much "America" believes in democracy. "What? You mean we might have listen to those poor countries? Fuck that, anybody wanna buy some guns?"
--
Information wants to be free, wouldn't you? | Parent ]

Man, some days I wonder... (2.00 / 2) (#20)
by trhurler on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 11:18:53 AM EST

I don't want to go anywhere in the world and have to deal with people who hate me because I live in a country with people who think like you do.
As you show later in your post, you have little or no idea how or what I think, so I'm just going to let this go.
A country that keeps people in virtual slavery (yea, argue that if you wish) because it's the only way the economy can look good. A country that makes it's living off of death and destruction. A country that can't care for it's sick and stupid.
The only reason anyone outside the US has to "hate" us involves our foriegn policy. Our domestic choices on matters such as health care are nobody else's business. I disagree with our foriegn policy. If you thought I was some AFL-CIO / VFW style "USA USA USA we're always right!" fanatic, you're wrong. However, your description above does not fit any place I've ever been, and all those places have been in the US so far. What you are doing is known as "exaggerating to the point of stupidity."
i.e. What we're doing is wrong, but it keeps me rich, so fuck off.
No, you halfwit. What it means is, just because you know something isn't right doesn't mean you have the ability to fix it.
Which is the exact same thing they said before. Right before they overthrew those damn democratic governments that didn't give U.S. businesses the best deals.
Actually, they tended to overthrow governments that tried to take sides with the USSR against the US, or that they thought were going to do so. But hey, ignore reality in favor of your Slashdot X-Files conspiracy nut worldview.
That is, the business we couldn't steal from using Eschelon.
The day someone provides at least one piece of actual evidence of Echelon being used to benefit private US businesses, rather than just engaging in some conspiracy theory bullshit, I'll be a whole lot happier to hear crap like this. The fact that you read it on Slashdot and the French government made a stink about it does not make it true.
Haha, maybe because it's considered uncool nowadays to commit genocide?
You don't have to commit genocide to destroy an organization, numbnuts. You don't necessarily even have to kill anyone, and in fact, not killing anyone is often a good idea.
And it's a very clear instruction on just how much "America" believes in democracy. "What? You mean we might have listen to those poor countries? Fuck that, anybody wanna buy some guns?"
You clearly either have no idea what is and was going on at that conference or else are either stupid or willfully ignoring the facts. A conference designed to address racial issues worldwide, not as a name calling event, but as a way to try to improve matters for all of us, was pretty much coopted by Arab countries(most of which are NOT poor, even if they do deliberately keep their PEOPLE in poverty,) in order to beat up on Israel.

I notice that you have no answer as to when the last time you saw a Palestinian attack a legitimate target or the Israelis attack an innocent was. Funny, that. :)

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
If it makes you feel any better... (2.00 / 1) (#21)
by BurntHombre on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 11:31:30 AM EST

I love this line:

When's the last time you read the headline "Israel blows up bus full of little kids"?! You didn't. On the other hand, when's the last time you saw "Hamas attacks legitimate military target"? Oh, that's right - YOU DIDN'T!

That pretty much sums up the whole Israel/Arab conflict.

[ Parent ]

True enough (3.00 / 1) (#24)
by Mad Hughagi on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 02:05:30 PM EST

I love reading tr's dialogues. I think he has managed to systematically deconstruct pretty much everyone on this site at one point or another ;)

While this point of view is a very good way of justifying the current pro-Isreal stance taken by many people, I think there are many other layers to the onion that have to be peeled off before anyone can say who is right and who is wrong. Stopping the terrorism would stop the retalitory military strikes, but it's hard to say if anything short of full on military strikes is going to stop the terrorism. Lose if you win, lose if you lose.

One must also take into account that Palestine has no other way of fighting other than through terrorism. A straight-forward war in Isreal would last less than a day and I don't think there would be many palestinians left. Remember what happened last time straight-forward war took place in Isreal?


HUGHAGI INDUSTRIES

We don't make the products you like, we make you like the products we make.
[ Parent ]

Man, why not do it on all of them.... (4.00 / 2) (#22)
by Wah on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 12:50:07 PM EST

As you show later in your post, you have little or no idea how or what I think, so I'm just going to let this go.

You're right, all I have to go on is the stuff you post to a weblog. And vice versa, although you know a bit better how I think now.

The only reason anyone outside the US has to "hate" us involves our foriegn policy.

No doubt, and the reasons we don't do anything about it are an internal matter.

What you are doing is known as "exaggerating to the point of stupidity."

You are correct, and I did it because I saw you doing it, mainly with that first paragraph I didn't comment on.

What it means is, just because you know something isn't right doesn't mean you have the ability to fix it.

Yes, but rather than just accept that, wouldn't it be more "rational" to try and gain that ability? Otherwise, you never get anywhere.

Actually, they tended to overthrow governments that tried to take sides with the USSR against the US, or that they thought were going to do so.

Yup, they got punished for thoughtcrime. Or doing anything that might hurt (i.e. not help) the U.S. economoy. Or do you remember us trading with Russia back then?

The fact that you read it on Slashdot and the French government made a stink about it does not make it true.

Then maybe you should go ask the French gov't for the evidence they collected. I am not that gon't, so I don't have it handy. And why do you feel so superior to everything slashdot? It's obvious they've got a spin, but how could one of your obvious intelligence not get around that and understand the world they report on?

You don't necessarily even have to kill anyone, and in fact, not killing anyone is often a good idea.

You're right, not killing one is a great idea. Unfortunately it's not one that Isreal can accept, because dangit, those people that really lived there for thousands of years don't want to go.

A conference designed to address racial issues worldwide, not as a name calling event, but as a way to try to improve matters for all of us, was pretty much coopted by Arab countries in order to beat up on Israel.

They are trying to do policitally what Isreal has been doing physically since they dropped their Zion bomb right in the middle of the Arab world. I agree that Zionism isn't racism, but it leads to it rather naturally. Witness the fact that it is the reason that Arabs get 1/3 of the funds for infrastructure, and 1/5 the funds of education (as compared to Jews) in a "democracy". I think we ended up having to call that racism here in America.

(most of which are NOT poor, even if they do deliberately keep their PEOPLE in poverty,)

you mean like the U.S. does? Or is it different because they live on the other side of the world?

I notice that you have no answer as to when the last time you saw a Palestinian attack a legitimate target or the Israelis attack an innocent was. Funny, that. :)

You mean a legitimate military target? Guess what, they aren't fighting a war for money, but a war for survival. The enemy they are fighting is the will of the Isreali people, so if you can accept those terms, they have been attacking legitimate targets. Hmmm, Isrealis attack an innocent...let's see...nope, I guess you're right, those kids weren't innocent since they obviously would have grown up to be terrorists. What a useful "preventive measure" killing kids can be rationalized as.

Or you could look at an article today in the Dallas Morning News (no link since I'm on dial-up and their site sucks) which was about a Palestinian run internet company that got raided by the FBI. Of course, the FBI didn't tell them they were being raided, or why, or their lawyers, because they don't have to. But of course, it was because they were terrorists, or supporting terrorists, by giving money to a church. Which then has ties with someone else. So our government, acting on the advice of our "friends" tracked the trail of money back to this business and raided it. So now, you're practicing terror if you give money to the "wrong" people, i.e. anyone that might have ties to anyone we or anyone (and it is quickly becoming only 1) of our allies are currently trying to exterminate.

I mean seriously, we have a VP who endorsed state sponsored (isreal) assasinations as a viable military tactic. [please excuse the typos, I had to do this one twice after I lost the first response due to win98 sucking a nut. Oh, BTW, the Bush Administration is doing what it can to leave that valuable asset alone]
--
Information wants to be free, wouldn't you? | Parent ]

But... (4.00 / 1) (#23)
by trhurler on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 01:57:09 PM EST

Yes, but rather than just accept that, wouldn't it be more "rational" to try and gain that ability?
There are all kinds of things I can do with my life. I cannot do them all. Not everything I do is related to wealth, and I am in fact politically involved in causes I think can improve US foriegn policy(among other US policies,) but if you think this is some sort of fairy tale thing that's just going to happen in six months because a bunch of people bust ass, then you need to wake up and smell the ballot box.
Yup, they got punished for thoughtcrime.
Perhaps you've heard of the Cuban missile crisis. That's the sort of "thoughtcrime" you're talking about. The USSR's expansionist policies were NOT an idle academic matter. They did the same things we did, and we both did them because something bigger than a single government or a single small nation was at stake. Right or wrong, there was a struggle afoot that someone was going to win, and someone was going to lose, and the difference in outcome was not something a reasonable person could ignore.
Then maybe you should go ask the French gov't for the evidence they collected.
Their report contained no claim to have any such evidence; it said they had evidence that Echelon exists, but it merely said there was the potential for economic espionage; it never once asserted that the French government possesses even a single shred of evidence for this proposition.
And why do you feel so superior to everything slashdot?
It might be because some time ago I realized the Slashdot editors are just as poorly informed and delusional as the readership...
but how could one of your obvious intelligence not get around that and understand the world they report on?
They report on a world that exists only in their own minds. Occasionally that world has some feature that corresponds to a similar feature in the "real world," but this appears to my eyes to be merely an interesting coincidence.
Unfortunately it's not one that Isreal can accept, because dangit, those people that really lived there for thousands of years don't want to go.
There is a legitimate territorial dispute there which is a lot more complex than you're making it out to be. The Israelis have proposed many solutions. The Palestinians have made it clear that they will not settle for anything less than the total destruction of Israel and driving all the Jews out of the region. Granted, they have claimed at various times to want a compromise, but when offered the compromises they asked for, in every case they then asked for even more, or else simply went back to blowing things up and screaming about holy wars. Have you seen "Mars Attacks"? That's the Palestinian attitude.
They are trying to do policitally what Isreal has been doing physically since they dropped their Zion bomb right in the middle of the Arab world.
Oh, please. The Arabs, relatively speaking, are newcomers to that region of the world. The Jews are the oldest remaining civilization ever to have lived there, and were there far longer than anyone else currently in existence. I'm not saying the Arabs have no claim to live there in one way or another, but the Arabs ARE saying the Jews don't. Think about that.
Witness the fact that it is the reason that Arabs get 1/3 of the funds for infrastructure, and 1/5 the funds of education (as compared to Jews) in a "democracy".
If black people regularly blew up white people in the US, I bet you wouldn't feel so bad about discriminating against them. That's the point: the reason this democracy(Israel) hasn't given more to the Arabs is mainly because the Arabs don't even respect the authority of the Israeli government; why would you give something to those who declare themselves your enemies?
you mean like the U.S. does? Or is it different because they live on the other side of the world?
The average person living below the poverty line in the US is better off than the average citizen of ANY Arab nation by more than one order of magnitude in terms of personal wealth and income. Your statement is ridiculous. Poverty in the US usually means "I have less than my neighbor" rather than "I am actually suffering." There are exceptions, but they are rarities among the 280 million US citizens.
You mean a legitimate military target? Guess what, they aren't fighting a war for money, but a war for survival. The enemy they are fighting is the will of the Isreali people, so if you can accept those terms, they have been attacking legitimate targets.
So when Hitler attacked Britain, it was morally right and proper to firebomb German cities into ruins, by your logic. Riight...
Hmmm, Isrealis attack an innocent...let's see...nope, I guess you're right, those kids weren't innocent since they obviously would have grown up to be terrorists.
Notice that the kids were accidentally killed. Notice that when Palestinians kill kids, it is usually because they DELIBERATELY BLEW UP A FUCKING SCHOOLBUS! There is a difference.
I mean seriously, we have a VP who endorsed state sponsored (isreal) assasinations as a viable military tactic.
When you're killing bomb makers and the Palestinian equivalent of generals fighting a war, that IS a viable military tactic; munitions producers and military leaders ARE legitimate targets.
Oh, BTW, the Bush Administration is doing what it can to leave that valuable asset alone]
I do believe we're talking about blowing up school buses and terrorist bombmakers and US foriegn policy and so on, rather than antitrust law. They're different subjects, you know.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
teehee (none / 0) (#25)
by Wah on Fri Sep 07, 2001 at 12:42:40 AM EST

They're different subjects, you know.

yup, but in between browser crashes and recent news research, I noticed how again our government is being run.

So when Hitler attacked Britain

Godwin's law. better luck next time. (and I'm sure there will be one. Have a good day, and I mean that in the sincerest way you believe I can ;-).

ooo, wait a sec.

Poverty in the US usually means "I have less than my neighbor" rather than "I am actually suffering."

No, it actually means the same thing. "I don't have enough food, shelter or clothing for me and my family". You are comparing apples to oranges for your order of magnitude. $10,000 bucks/yr in the U.S. ain't the same as $1,000 someplace else. Unless it means your can't feed your kids, then you have the same situation. Poverty is poverty my friend, even if we have enough missiles to make our "dollars" worth more.
--
Information wants to be free, wouldn't you? | Parent ]

Er, no... (none / 0) (#27)
by trhurler on Fri Sep 07, 2001 at 02:56:03 PM EST

Godwin's law only applies to situations where you compare the person you're arguing with to Hitler. It does not apply to mentioning him or his army for legitimate discussion purposes, such as, say discussion of war crimes.

As for poverty, you need to meet some poor people. Most people who receive government assistance in the US have apartments, air conditioning, microwave ovens, meals, a car or two, a TV, maybe a satellite dish, and so on. Only a tiny minority are "really" poor. As for feeding your kids, you are pretty much guaranteed that if you are willing to not work and just live like a slob, the government will feed your kids. I think this is a screwy situation, but I'm talking about what IS, not what should be.

Don't get me wrong; I have sympathy for the tiny minority of genuinely poor people, and I do what I reasonably can in the form of donations and so on to help out, but I've lived in and had friends live in enough places with lots of "poor" people about that I know how that usually works. The Larry Rice people you see on TV are often genuinely sad cases, but they're also a few hundred people out of a few million in a given area. That's not even close to what you're trying to claim.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
wrong again (none / 0) (#28)
by Wah on Fri Sep 07, 2001 at 06:28:13 PM EST

but that's o.k. we can all learn a little bit.
--
Information wants to be free, wouldn't you? | Parent ]
Oops, wrong source (none / 0) (#29)
by trhurler on Fri Sep 07, 2001 at 07:15:07 PM EST

You see, I'm citing the original statement by Godwin himself, on Usenet. I really don't care what malformed garbage esr has on his website; he says lots of stupid things, and this does not make any of them true. In fact, if he's not talking about guns, he's probably saying something silly.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
you're splitting hairs (none / 0) (#31)
by Wah on Mon Sep 10, 2001 at 11:41:11 AM EST

but it's funny to watch. Care to cite that cite?
--
Information wants to be free, wouldn't you? | Parent ]
Well, (none / 0) (#32)
by trhurler on Mon Sep 10, 2001 at 12:20:07 PM EST

Seeing as it is a Usenet post from considerably before there was any publicly available archive of Usenet, I'd say I've given you all the cite there is; I don't have a copy of the posting. If you want a copy really badly, email esr and see if he has contact info for Godwin, but don't be surprised if this doesn't actually work out for you:)

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
I think I've said this before but (none / 0) (#30)
by ZanThrax on Sat Sep 08, 2001 at 07:01:15 PM EST

If black people regularly blew up white people in the US, I bet you wouldn't feel so bad about discriminating against them. That's the point: the reason this democracy(Israel) hasn't given more to the Arabs is mainly because the Arabs don't even respect the authority of the Israeli government; why would you give something to those who declare themselves your enemies?
See, now, if every single black person in the US regularly blew up white people in the US, then white people in the US would have a legitamate reason to discriminate against them. If most black people in the US regularly blew up white people in the US, then white people in the US would have a damn good reason to be scared of every black person in the US. If, say, quite a few (lets say, 1 in 10) black people in the US regularly blew up white people in the US, then most white people in the US would probably be scared of every black person in the US, but would not have a legitamate reason to discriminate against them.


Intolerant people should be shot.


[ Parent ]
Ahh you cant help but love him... (4.00 / 1) (#26)
by bil on Fri Sep 07, 2001 at 06:49:45 AM EST

Europe doesn't like us, but we don't seem to have much against Europe. (Jealousy is amusing.)

I love people who think that the only reason people dislike or even hate the US is that they're jealous. Naivety is always cute...

bil


bil
Where you stand depends on where you sit...
[ Parent ]

Anthrax - So, if you were in the military (3.00 / 2) (#7)
by mami on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 06:42:29 PM EST

would you oppose to be vaccinated with Anthrax or not ?

Depends (3.66 / 3) (#8)
by trhurler on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 06:57:49 PM EST

If I was some paper pusher who'd never leave the US, then yes, I'd object. On the other hand, if I were likely to be deployed in the middle east or other places where I might well die of anthrax were there any serious hostilities, then I'd probably feel differently; the risks are different depending on the circumstances.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
Anthrax? (3.00 / 4) (#10)
by Anonymous 242 on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 07:32:43 PM EST

Why not. I cut my teeth on the likes of early Social D (before they went cow punk), the Pistols, the Clash, DK and so and and so forth.

I found this to be a very effective innoculation against the likes of Anthrax.

I will admit that some of the stuff Anthrax did with Public Enemy was interesting.

-l

[ Parent ]

Geesh, Social D, Cow Punk, Pistols, Clask and DK ? (2.00 / 2) (#11)
by mami on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 07:55:28 PM EST

Can you speak in easy English ? (I don't understand your military slang...:-)). I am just the mom of someone who has to get vaccinated one day with this stuff, so I like to get some feedback from people who seem to be familiar with the military.

The only reason why I haven't tried to research that by myself is the fact that id doesn't seem to help much. What good does it do ? If I end up finding it very dangerous to get vaccinated, I would put my son in trouble letting him know about it, because he has to accept the vaccination no matter what (I assume).

If I end up to not find it to be dangerous and he would get long-lasting side effects from the vaccination, then I end up being an idiot having calmed him down and advised to accept the vaccination. What worries me is that he already asked me what I think about it (I used to be a chemist, so he thinks I might have an informed opinion...right... Right now my opinion is to not get an informed opinion about it...just the informed opinions of others.)

So, I keep my mouth shut, but it does worry me to be honest.



[ Parent ]
About Anthrax and Co. (3.50 / 2) (#14)
by plone on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 09:39:45 PM EST

Um, Social D(istortion), the (sex) pistols, the clash and D(ead)(K)ennedys are all punk bands from the late 70's/early 80's, while Anthrax was the name of a heavy metal band that did a song with public enemy once.(Bring the noise, i think). So even if you spent your time researching till the cow punks came home, you would find nothing about these "diseases".

[ Parent ]
Oh boy (3.50 / 2) (#16)
by mami on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 10:50:23 PM EST

thanks...

[ Parent ]
So what's the problem? (3.00 / 2) (#12)
by Apuleius on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 08:13:30 PM EST

The US can only keep something like this secret for a few years. That puts an automatic limit on the evil the boys in the US government can get away with. Not so in countries that are not as open. Besides, it is only a matter of time before some enemy of the US or other deploys bioweapons against the US. Be prepared, it is the by scout's marching song, be prepared...


There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
Its for creating a vaccine, right? (3.50 / 2) (#13)
by mmcc on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 09:16:22 PM EST

You know, every country should have a vaccine for Anthrax... that's why the US, Iraq, North Korea and Libya are doing research right on it right?

Don't worry people, it's for a vaccine.



I hope you are right (3.00 / 1) (#18)
by mami on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 06:55:44 AM EST

How well can you judge the "scientific" literature to know if it's ok not to worry ?

Just because source code is "open", doesn't meant it couldn't be "obfuscated", doesn't mean you have to publish all of it, nor does it show you what kind of tests you preferred not to run and not to publish.

[ Parent ]

Planning Germ Warfare (4.50 / 2) (#15)
by BurntHombre on Wed Sep 05, 2001 at 10:10:53 PM EST

The US is being criticized for going beyond the bounds of the 1972 biological weapons treaty, which allows for research into protective measures and vaccines. From the article:

The research in essence has mimicked the major steps that a state or terrorist group would take to create a biological arsenal.

Problem is, the only way to effectively prepare for a germ warfare attack from a rogue nation is to research every conceivable way in which such an attack might take place. Not only the effect that the virus/germ/bacteria has, but what the likely targets are, how it might be transported and deployed, etc. In other words, you end up creating germ warfare strategies, not to mention the ways to defend against such attacks. Sorta like how we build safer cars by studying the results of crashing them up against solid walls in a laboratory.

Bioterrorism (4.50 / 2) (#19)
by wiredog on Thu Sep 06, 2001 at 08:52:17 AM EST

Read Living Terrors by Michael T. Osterholm, and John Schwartz.

Osterholm is a former Minnesota State Epidemiologist, was a personal advisor to the late King Hussein of Jordan on bioterrorism, and is an adjunct professor in the School of Public Health, University of Minnesota. Schwartz is a science reporter for the Washington Post.

Living Terrors provides a quick-and-dirty guide to bioterrorism for lay readers. Each chapter begins with a fictionalized account of an attack. It covers scenarios involving anthrax and smallpox.

The bioweapons convention demonstrates President Reagans' dictum "Trust, but verify". There was no way to verify the treaty and, guess what, it was ignored by the USSR (according to the book, and look at the bibliography, too). The USSR was able to weaponize smallpox and grew several tons of it. Their inventory control system sucks and no one is sure how many tons were produced, or if they are all accounted for. Which is why the US isn't going to destroy the remaining stocks of smallpox at CDC in Atlanta. We may need it for vaccine research.

Smallpox is nasty. It is airborne, highly infective and contagious, has a death rate of, IIRC, 10-25%, and the survivors are scarred for life. You get on an airplane with someone who is contagious and you will have a massive exposure. Smallpox vaccinations were stopped decades ago after it was eradicated in the wild. The USA doesn't have enough vaccine for even a fraction of its own population, although this is being worked on.

The idea of a global village is wrong, it's more like a gazillion pub bars.
Phage

White House acknowledges secret germ factory | 32 comments (30 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!