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Kuro5hin/Scoop feature party! (woohoo)

By ramses0 in News
Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 01:06:28 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

People want features {here, here, here, and here} , and Scoop (the software running this site) is open source... Wouldn't it be cool if Rusty came back from his Ski trip to find that we hacked out new features for Scoop behind his back?


Since I don't really know perl, here's some code that (i think) will you to browse at a certain level of comment moderation. I don't think it'll be as 'pretty' as 'nested mode' (thanks again, Rusty), but it might get the job done.

It's vaguely Diff-Like, and reasonably simple to understand... I hereby challenge anybody who's got some free time to try and hack out their favorite feature. Please post below ;^)=

(and a little note: here's where most of the comment display code goes, and it looks like here is most of the story-moderation code. Rusty! Comment your code please! ;^)=

http://cvs.kuro5hin.org/cvsweb.cgi/scoop/lib/Scoop/Comments.pm
FILE: scoop/Lib/Scoop/Comments.pm
CHANGES:
sub _comment_mode_select {
+#this block allows users to select
+#the minimum comment score to view
+<select name="commentlevel" size=1>
+ <option value="0">0
+ <option value="1">1
+ <option value="2">2
+</select>
}

sub format_comment {
+#this block formats comments and
+#makes sure that "low-scored"
+#comments are not displayed to those
+#who don't want to see them
+if ($comment -> {points} >= $commentlevel) {
== ... normal comment formatting code ...
+} else {
+ # don't show low-scored comments
+}

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Kuro5hin/Scoop feature party! (woohoo) | 24 comments (24 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
I do not think this is necissarily ... (none / 0) (#2)
by Nyarlathotep on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 02:13:08 AM EST

Nyarlathotep voted 1 on this story.

I do not think this is necissarily the best way to do things in general, i.e. posting a story about how to change the source of the site, but it seems reasonable with the current state of the software.. and I don't want the story to dissapear before rusty finds it. Also, just filtering out the submission moderation comments is a bad idea. The person who moderated should descided wether their comment is realevent to the discussion if/when the article is posted, i.e. what do you want the comment to start out at 0 or 1. Also, this site is so much more community sensitive the slashdot that I think we definitly need a better way to handle long term conversations. One idea is the personal story hot list box, but we also need a new activity flag (which should at leat destinguish between new activity in a thread based on one of your posts, new activity in a thread contining one of your posts, and new activity in the story). This is essential to being able to have long term discussions.. and it is one feature where Usenet kicks the weblogs asses. It would also be nice to make interlinking of posts & articles a bit easyer (ala everything but not quite so obsurdist). We could even scrap the whole idea of threads infavor of some form of cross linking (like you can reply to multiple posts with one post). Usenet's ideas on threads have dominated our methods of online conversation for too long. It is time we at least experemented with diffrent formats. I think that a better confersation format could go a long way to reducing the S/N ratio, i.e. it is more importent to experement with this then add comment moderation. Next, I noticed my first hot grits post today, so we may need to implement voting to kill trolls soon too.
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!

Re: I do not think this is necissarily ... (none / 0) (#15)
by casret on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 12:39:39 PM EST

I complete agree. We should use the correct tools for the correct problems. We should probably start a project over at sourceforge, and use this site as the weblog it was intende for.

[ Parent ]
Re: I do not think this is necissarily ... (none / 0) (#20)
by ramses0 on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 05:04:38 PM EST

Normally I'd agree with you, but the fact that this "story" got posted to the front page means that some kinds of people care about this stuff.

And honestly, I think kuro5hin is the only place using the Scoop engine... which means that in order to figure out the best features to add, and what strange quirks are really annoying, kuro5hin becomes the only proper place to discuss this (for now). After it gets to the ~1000 user mark, then this story probably would have been voted down, and probably a project started over on an open-source website. ;^)=

What's the best thing you like about kuro5hin, and what's really annoying?

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]
Re: I do not think this is necissarily ... (none / 0) (#23)
by Nyarlathotep on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 06:47:14 PM EST

What's the best thing you like about kuro5hin, and what's really annoying?

I'd have to say the most anoying thing is all the people who want a slashdot style comment moderation system. I think rusty should hold off as long as possible before implementing any sort of "reward the good users" system. Actually, instead of numerical ratings we could have flags you can set to only read the titles of serton posts, i.e. "no anonymous hero posts", "show only story moderation posts which are intended to be comments too" (i.e. those comments you make when you moderate a story are not visible when this is turned on, but the author of the comment could choose to have the comment be a normal post and not subject to this flag), "no offtopic posts" (i.e. the author of a comment can check an offtopic box so people with this turnned on do not need to see their comment). I think the system should sisplay the title, author, and vote status of EVERY post regardless of flags.

One of the best thing about kuro5hin may be the idea of non-anonymous voting. Hopefully, rusty will eventually install a simillar system for trolls (i.e. if your post gets a couple of troll nominations then it goes into the troll voting booth; if 20 people say it is not a troll then it goes free, but if 20 people say it is a troll it gets deleted)

Rusty also needs to change the 5% of total population for approving a story to a 5% of people who actually vote, as the non-voting population will probable grow very fast.

Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!
[ Parent ]
This a VERY cool post... (none / 0) (#7)
by derick on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 02:21:10 AM EST

derick voted 1 on this story.

This a VERY cool post

I wish I was a programmer...but I a... (none / 0) (#4)
by Demona on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 02:41:38 AM EST

Demona voted 1 on this story.

I wish I was a programmer...but I am just a lowly user. Oh well, I write good docs :)

We don't yet need moderation here!... (none / 0) (#3)
by Strange Charmed One on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 09:59:30 AM EST

Strange Charmed One voted -1 on this story.

We don't yet need moderation here!
--
Feel the urge to put excessively cute little quotes into your .sig?

JUST SAY NO!

If you or one of your friends is frequently plagued by this tendency, Help IS available- Ask me how.

Re: We don't yet need moderation here!... (none / 0) (#11)
by Ethelred_Unraed on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 07:25:11 AM EST

I think we do, if only to provide for the day that kuro5hin outgrows /. :-)
[ Support LinuxPPC! ] [ LinuxMac.de ] [ Visit my site ]
[ Parent ]
I agree - we will soon (none / 0) (#14)
by mattdm on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 12:36:49 PM EST

Kuro5hin may not need it now, but it certainly will eventually. So starting work on the code makes sense!

[ Parent ]
Re: I agree - we will soon (none / 0) (#16)
by hattig on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 12:42:25 PM EST

Would be good if the code made sense as well, as it seems that it isn't the most commented of code out there.

Then again, whos code is?

[ Parent ]
I'd also like to see more discussio... (none / 0) (#9)
by Ethelred_Unraed on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 11:01:31 AM EST

Ethelred_Unraed voted 1 on this story.

I'd also like to see more discussion on features while the site is still young. Too bad it ain't PHP, then I could be of more help...
[ Support LinuxPPC! ] [ LinuxMac.de ] [ Visit my site ]

pretty cool stuff ... (none / 0) (#5)
by rajivvarma on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 01:22:53 PM EST

rajivvarma voted 1 on this story.

pretty cool stuff

Rajiv Varma
Mirror of DeCSS.

Of course this is a good idea! Alth... (none / 0) (#1)
by hattig on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 06:29:05 PM EST

hattig voted 1 on this story.

Of course this is a good idea! Although I haven't seen much in the way of comment moderation yet, this is a good move. What would be nice is a mode to only see those comments that have been moderated up (0->1, 1->2 etc), as opposed to just viewing at 2+... a lot harder of course, each story would have to have its original posting score associated with it, but this will occur naturally when comment moderation happens anyway...

Re: Of course this is a good idea! Alth... (none / 0) (#13)
by hattig on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 12:34:49 PM EST

I see that the score for posting a new story has gone up to around 15, so there are more and more stories in the input queue, but none of them are getting a large enough score to get onto the front page during the hours that America isn't online - we need more European and Asian readers.

I suppose that when Kuro5hin approaches a more complete state then it will be possible to spread the word wide and far... it will be interesting to see how story moderation works with thousands of users able to moderate, then more useful statistics can be used to set the score required to forward a sotry to the front page.

[ Parent ]
Re: Of course this is a good idea! Alth... (none / 0) (#18)
by ramses0 on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 04:53:15 PM EST

Comments cannot yet be moderated (I'll let rusty deal with programming that ;^)= ... the only thing this would do is please people who don't want to see the "moderation" comments (which default to score 0, if you notice).

Someone in a different thread said: "moderation should exist to solve a problem. kuro5hin doesn't have any problems, and slashdot's solution is worse than their problem"

Can you think of a good method to promote or demote stories? (preferably in a "everyone can vote" manner, like story moderation now)

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]
Re: Of course this is a good idea! Alth... (none / 0) (#19)
by ramses0 on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 04:57:55 PM EST

(whoops, forgot my main point: anonymous hero's still start out at score 1, so there's no need to worry about score-based moderation/display versus differential-based moderation/display)

the only issue comes when a "moderation comment" should be ranked highly. maybe 0->1 could be a "free" moderation move? so that it doesn't cost moderator points (if we end up with such a thing). Either that, or have a checkbox when you moderate which says: "emphasize your comment?" or something, which would default your comment to a 1 instead of a zero.

What do you think?

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]
The fact that kuro5hin is open sour... (none / 0) (#10)
by Wil Mahan on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 10:01:23 PM EST

Wil Mahan voted 1 on this story.

The fact that kuro5hin is open sourced could be a real advantage as more people discover it and help to improve it.

i don't care. as long as the code ... (none / 0) (#6)
by mr. creep on Sun Feb 20, 2000 at 10:45:18 PM EST

mr. creep voted 0 on this story.

i don't care. as long as the code works i will use it. :)
--
brian - geeknik.net

Really cool idea. What's open sourc... (none / 0) (#8)
by Perpetual Newbie on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 02:15:47 AM EST

Perpetual Newbie voted 1 on this story.

Really cool idea. What's open source about but hacking code?

Well, I'm more slack than hack, so instead of grabbing the code now and post stuff I'd like to change, I'll just shout out my wants and download it later.

What I want right now, most of all, is a single character changed. The '4' in this miniscule edit window's 40 width to a 5 or a 6.

And a plaintext checkbox here in the comment-editing page would be nice. Just if it's on, dump a print "<PRE>"; before my spew, and a print "</PRE>"; afterwords. And, of course, some code to make sure no line goes longer than a set limit so no one can screw up everyone's tables any more than mozilla already screws tables up, but I don't know how to do that in Perl. =)

A list of the HTML tags that aren't filtered out of comments would also be a good idea. Actually, this is only my second time posting, and with the lack of feedback I see I'm not even sure that comments are in HTML, although the last one sure as heck wasn't plaintext. We'll just see what gets rendered.

Now that that's said.. I really like this place!

Re: Really cool idea. What's open sourc... (none / 0) (#24)
by rusty on Wed Feb 23, 2000 at 04:57:36 AM EST

Hmm. All the things you suggest are good ideas, so I'd already included them by the time you posted this. There's a select to choose between HTML and plain text posting, there's a list of Allowed tags underneath the "post" and "preview" buttons, and of course, there's the all-important "Preview" button itself, to show you exactly what your comment will look like when it's posted. What browser are you using? If all those things weren't very obvious, something's not working right!

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Kuro5hin/Scoop feature party! (woohoo) (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous Hero on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 10:20:34 AM EST

Slightly offtopic I know, but I wish Slashdot had a feature so that I could browse comments BELOW a certain threshold (like -1, etc). However, that's not really pertinent to this site because Rusty intends to delete all trolls (which is a Good Thing).

browsing below 0 (none / 0) (#17)
by mattdm on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 12:56:58 PM EST

You can always set your page to sort by score, and then look at the bottom half of the page....

[ Parent ]
Re: browsing below 0 (none / 0) (#21)
by ramses0 on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 05:07:26 PM EST

I would like that feature on slashdot too... and while the "botttom half" trick might work, a lot of times slash is in "comment overload mode", and it's also sometimes slow... meaning to get to the true bottom takes a fair amount of effort.

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]
Tail Command was: Kuro5hin/Scoop feature party! (none / 0) (#22)
by joeyo on Mon Feb 21, 2000 at 06:14:15 PM EST

Heh, a tail command for slashdot would be cool :)

--
"Give me enough variables to work with, and I can probably do away with the notion of human free will." -- demi
[ Parent ]

Kuro5hin/Scoop feature party! (woohoo) | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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