Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
Napster not illegal in Europe

By hattig in News
Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 11:53:58 AM EST
Tags: Freedom (all tags)
Freedom

ZDNet Uk has an article on how European law is powerless to stop Napster and its variants from being banned. Part 1 and Part 2. Basically, because the Napster servers are not actually holding any copyrighted data, the Napster authors cannot be done for copyright breach, and it is going to be too hard for the record companies to sue each and every person that has downloaded a file from another persons computer. I just think Napster allows me to listen to music before I go out and buy it.


Actually, I have just submitted the exact same to Slashdot, but I want to see which method is faster - Slashdot's moderators sifting through 380 submissions or Kuro5hin and story moderation. Hope rusty doesn't mind :-) (and there shouldn't be any copyright problems, erm, I issue the story under the GPL?)

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Slashdot
o Kuro5hin
o ZDNet
o ZDNet Uk
o Part 1
o Part 2
o Also by hattig


Display: Sort:
Napster not illegal in Europe | 11 comments (11 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Let's see more non-America-centric ... (none / 0) (#3)
by pwhysall on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 10:14:59 AM EST

pwhysall voted 1 on this story.

Let's see more non-America-centric stories, yeah? It's about time that Merkins realized that the rest of the world is interesting, too.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown

I don't care for the /. vs K5 aspec... (none / 0) (#1)
by fluffy grue on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 10:55:56 AM EST

fluffy grue voted 1 on this story.

I don't care for the /. vs K5 aspect of this, but it does raise a few points which nobody really has mentioned before (AFAIK) regarding Napster. Other things the RIAA keeps forgetting when trying to sue Napster is the fact that Napster has a TOS saying that no copyright-protected stuff is to be sent using their service, and that they can "hardly be blamed" if so many people use the service illegally that it's impossible to find and remove the offending users. It's like AOL's policy of not cussing since they're "family-oriented" - either they can screen every single piece of traffic for every possible combination and misspelling of various words and somehow avoid bunches of false positives, or they can rely on their members reporting any infractions, which I'm sure hardly anyone ever does. Likewise, how can Napster procedurally ban people for spreading known labelled artists when there are so many, such as Phish and Grateful Dead, who insisted that concert recordings be free?

Of course, that's just a cover story for Napster, which is obviously out to make it easy to let people preview an album before they buy it. I think it's actually a quite valuable service. Long ago (as in mid-90s), most independent record stores would let you preview an album *in the store*, but independent record stores are practically a thing of the past for anything other than other peoples' discarded used Weezer albums, and I've yet to see any big chain store which happens to sell CDs allow you to preview anything other than the crap you can hear on the radio anyway, and of course they have a draconian return policy - if it's open, it can't be returned. So what's a discriminating music lover to do anymore? Napster, of course.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]

Re: I don't care for the /. vs K5 aspec... (none / 0) (#5)
by ramses0 on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 12:04:16 PM EST

Agreed... I love mp3's, but except for a few songs which I'm "evaluating", or can't really find to buy conveniently, all of mine are legal.

One more thing- I have no qualms whatsoever about downloading songs which are played incessantly on the radio. It's like that whole "time-shifting" argument with VCR's. I'm already licensed to hear it, I just want to listen to it at a time and place which is more convenient for me.

Imagine if you could download any song you heard from the radio from the radio station's website. Even if they added short advertisements to the beginning and/or end of the song, I'd download them simply because it's convenient and "legal".

It is undeniable that digital music is very convenient, and a -good- thing. The recording industry might not agree, they have every right to say "it affects our bottom line", however, from a technical and convenience standpoint, MP3 (or something like it) will be around.

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care for the /. vs K5 aspec... (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous Hero on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 11:03:59 PM EST

One more thing- I have no qualms whatsoever about downloading songs which are played incessantly on the radio. It's like that whole "time-shifting" argument with VCR's. I'm already licensed to hear it, I just want to listen to it at a time and place which is more convenient for me.

But you're not really licensed to hear the CD-quality version. I guess it would be OK to download something recorded from the radio/TV (I record 95% of my MP3s from TV right now), but you should buy the CD if you want the CD version.

Personally, I like recorded MP3s better. Most of the songs available on Napster seem to be badly ripped or encoded. A 22 kHz stereo "lame -v -V 9" (~80kbps) file recorded through my TV tuner sounds better to me than the average Napster song (44 kHz 128kbps stereo), although it doesn't really sound stereo.

If I bought a CD, I'd want to be able to get the files onto my computer easily. Record companies should put MP3s on their music CDs (i.e. a music+data CD), recorded using high-quality tools. Just regular MP3s of everything on the CD, no content protection or proprietary codecs. Sure, people would redistribute them, but it would also give more incentive to buy the CD. If I want to go the legal way right now, I have to spend forever ripping and encoding the CD. Napster (or even recording) is just easier. I want to be able to buy a CD, and have the MP3s in my playlist within a minute. Maybe they could even make different bitrates (or VBR quality levels) available. I'll start buying from record companies when they learn to show their customers some respect.

[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care for the /. vs K5 aspec... (none / 0) (#10)
by rusty on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 07:58:00 PM EST

There's a record store right up the street from me called DCCD (on 18th in Adams Morgan) where you are free to unwrap, open up, and have a listen to any CD in the store. Very cool place. But of course, it's more expensive than the big chains. Well, you pay for service, I figure.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Is this really a vote for discussin... (none / 0) (#2)
by eann on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 11:32:30 AM EST

eann voted 1 on this story.

Is this really a vote for discussing the legal implications of Napster, or is it simply a lame encouragement in a phony "race" with Slashdot?

Yes. At least one of those.

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


Re: Is this really a vote for discussin... (none / 0) (#4)
by hattig on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 11:59:54 AM EST

Slashdot rejected my post :-)

Yet it has been shown here that people are interested. It is just proof that Slashdot don't care anymore - they only want to post stuff that will help their shares, and isn't too radical or scary. The Slashdot aspect wasn't the reason for posting though, I did think that people would be interested, and I know that many of the people who read K5 don't read that other place anymore because it is a pile of old {insert least favourite substance here}.



[ Parent ]

Re: Is this really a vote for discussin... (none / 0) (#6)
by ramses0 on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 12:09:29 PM EST

Actually, I agree with /. rejecting your story idea. They're a different beast entirely, and honestly your story idea doesn't have have as much hooks for discussion as it could have.

The only thing which your story says is "Napster is Legal in Europe". And you nicely summarize those reasons for legality, but this isn't a law site, it's a tech/culture site, and there isn't too much tech/culture to talk about with this story.

But I was "the straw that broke the camel's back", by voting +1 for this story, so obviously this isn't really a complaint ;^)=

--Robert
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this really a vote for discussin... (none / 0) (#7)
by hattig on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 12:21:07 PM EST

Maybe, but Slashdot seems to love a Napster or Freedom kind of story. On the other hand I do not submit regularly to Slashdot, and that might be taken into account as well.

And Slashdot modded the story just before it got on here, and I submitted here about 5 mins later, so...

Maybe there is a problem with story moderation - the current system might not be right, maybe it should be:

+1: Post It, Discussable Story
+0: Interesting Link, not much room for discussion (put it in an interesting link box instead)
0: Not interested
-1: Dump It

But I should be talking about this on scoop.kuro5hin.org I suppose...

[ Parent ]

Re: Is this really a vote for discussin... (none / 0) (#8)
by lachoy on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 01:40:35 PM EST

Wasn't there just a story on /. about napster, responding to the salon article? They probably just didn't want to run a story on the same subject several times in a day. Nothing insidious there...
M-x auto-bs-mode
[ Parent ]
Re: EU Copyright Law (none / 0) (#9)
by eann on Fri Mar 24, 2000 at 02:55:10 PM EST

Okay, now that you've responded to my comment about moderation that didn't actually have anything to do with the topic at hand, I had another idea:

If EU law protects the makers of Napster, apparently under some clause not entirely unlike the infrastructural idea of "common carrier" in the US, why isn't it helping in the DeCSS case?

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


Napster not illegal in Europe | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!