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[P]
More Artists Going After Napster

By skim123 in News
Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 05:37:47 PM EST
Tags: Music (all tags)
Music

According to this story on ABCNews.com, Dr. Dre has followed Metallica's lead, "giving the song-swap software company until Friday to take his music off its directory, which he says is infringing his copyrights."

According to Metallica's lawyers, at least 10 other musicians have approached him, interested in getting their music off Napster. A shame.... Thank God for Gnutella!


I guess we can't blame the musicians going after Napster - they're looking to save their livelihood, and also to protect what is rightfully theirs. I've heard all the arguments that musicians benefit from concerts and little from record sales, so services like Napster are good for musicians, but if this were the case, why are the musicians going after Napster? Could it be that the record labels are pressuring them or do they just not understand the "Internet model" and view Napster as a theft of their property?

Sadly, I think Napster's days are numbered. Banned across college campuses, being sued by musicians. Less decentralized systems like Gnutella will be the answer, IMHO.

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More Artists Going After Napster | 46 comments (46 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
"Less decentralized systems like Gn... (none / 0) (#16)
by tpck on Tue Apr 18, 2000 at 11:02:44 PM EST

tpck voted -1 on this story.

"Less decentralized systems like Gnutella ... "? Yuck!

Overall, this is just old news rehashed.

Re: "Less decentralized systems like Gn... (none / 0) (#33)
by skim123 on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 01:10:02 AM EST

What don't you like about Gnutella?

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Re: "Less decentralized systems like Gn... (none / 0) (#39)
by inspire on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 12:35:05 PM EST

I think he's trying to say that the wording is clumsy, and incorrect.

GNUtella is a _more_ decentralised system. It'd be easier and more correct to say

... decentralised systems like GNUtella ...
--
What is the helix?
[ Parent ]

Re: "Less decentralized systems like Gn... (none / 0) (#40)
by skim123 on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 02:18:43 PM EST

I think he's trying to say that the wording is clumsy, and incorrect. GNUtella is a _more_ decentralised system. It'd be easier and more correct to say

Egad! Hehe, my bad. Good ol' double negative type stuff. Less centralized, more decentralized, less less decentralized.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
No! Not Dre! What ever happened to ... (none / 0) (#1)
by rusty on Tue Apr 18, 2000 at 11:42:54 PM EST

rusty voted 1 on this story.

No! Not Dre! What ever happened to "This time around, the revolution will not be televised!"?

____
Not the real rusty

Re: No! Not Dre! What ever happened to ... (none / 0) (#23)
by evro on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 07:15:29 PM EST

Heh, that was before the revolution was cutting into profits.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: No! Not Dre! What ever happened to ... (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous Hero on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:23:14 PM EST

I thought it was Professor Griff who said that.

[ Parent ]
Re: No! Not Dre! What ever happened to ... (none / 0) (#28)
by rusty on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:31:50 PM EST

Hey, y'know what. I'm thinking of Chuck ("Voice of Power) D. Please disregard my comment. :-) And I think you're right, that it was Prof G who actually said it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
rehashing what we already know. tru... (none / 0) (#6)
by fvw on Tue Apr 18, 2000 at 11:54:01 PM EST

fvw voted -1 on this story.

rehashing what we already know. true, but not worth posting.

Re: rehashing what we already know. tru... (none / 0) (#22)
by nascent on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 07:04:01 PM EST

Ya know, sometimes I just don't get posts like this. Just because YOU know it doesn't mean everyone else does. It also doesn't mean that there aren't people here who want to talk about it. This is tech, this is culture. This is relevant.

What's beginning to irritate me about kuro5hin's readership is that they routinely vote against stories that decidely fit into both categories with excelent writeups. Sorta like calling yourselves Christians Against Christ. This site can call itself Technology and Culture, but if that's not what it does, then that ain't what it is.
nascent
http://www.intap.net/~j/
[ Parent ]

Re: rehashing what we already know. tru... (none / 0) (#34)
by skim123 on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 01:10:55 AM EST

Hey-yo! <TT>:)</TT>

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Re: rehashing what we already know. tru... (none / 0) (#47)
by fvw on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:00:57 PM EST

So you're would vote fore an article which tells us that 1+1=2? I assume most
people know have read at least one article/feature/whatever like this since
I've seen tons. Anyway, whole idea of voting is: would YOU like to see this on
the frontpage. I wouldn't. If there are enough others that would, they'll vote
for it, and it'll appear on the frontpage. However, if nobody wants to see it,
and they all think: oh dear, somebody might care, and vote for you get
everything that's submitted on the frontpage, whatever it is.


[ Parent ]
Die Dr Dre Die ... (none / 0) (#8)
by kraant on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 12:44:29 AM EST

kraant voted 1 on this story.

Die Dr Dre Die

What a lot of people don't understand is that either the concept of intellectual property has to go byebyes or everyones privacy, fair use and other little unimportant things like that will instead

Governments are making more and more legislation that undermines basic consumer rights in an effort to protect overpaid talentless scum...

Just look at the DMCA

end rabid rant
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...

I find it disgusting that so many p... (3.00 / 2) (#17)
by homer on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 01:33:51 AM EST

homer voted 1 on this story.

I find it disgusting that so many people feel they have a right to download the copyrighted products of others at no charge.
-----------
doh!

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by fluffy grue on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 06:32:41 PM EST

I don't feel that I have the right to steal the music. I do, however, feel that I have the right to know what I'm buying before I buy it. Usually all that I hear of a band (if anything) is their one Big Hit on the radio, and I have no way of knowing whether the rest of their music sucks or not until I buy the album, and since no music stores I know of will take back a CD once it's been opened, I have no way to know what I'm getting before I pay $15+ for it.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#24)
by Notromda on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 07:25:08 PM EST

That sounds like a noble use, but the reality is... most people just download the mp3's, and don't buy the CD. If artists really want to capitalize on this concept, they should make websites that have short clips of each song... just enough to get an idea of what each song is about, but not the whole thing. A demo version, if you will. But once you have the whole song, why bother buying the CD?

Like it or not, the work is copyrighted. Copying the song is piracy, and just wrong. I can't believe how many people try to defend napster, when it's primary purpose is to pirate copyrighted material. Sure, the authors claim otherwise, but that's the de facto usage.

[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#31)
by fluffy grue on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 11:29:52 PM EST

Why bother buying the whole CD? Because 99.99% of the skript kiddies on Napster seem to think that bladeenc at 64Kbit is high-quality. That and usually I can only get the first half of the song (if even that much) downloaded before the person disconnects, never to be seen again, which is definitely enough for me to sample the song. Actually, that's all I do download anyway - the first 30 seconds to a minute or so.<p> BTW, a lot of legit stuff goes through Napster too. Phish and Grateful Dead "bootlegs" for example (both bands have given their extreme blessing to the free spreading of their concert recordings, as long as the concert isn't one they have slated for a production album and as long as the spreaders don't get any money from it). Of course, legitimate sharing is probably 0.01% of the entire Napster-related traffic, and I'm not about to defend most of the Napster users even on general principles; however, I think it's more likely that record stores and labels' refusals to let people know what they're getting which causes people to bootleg the most, since they don't want to spend their hard-earned (or at least stolen) money on a CD just to find out that the only song worth playing on the CD is the one which they hear on the radio 23 hours a day.<p> I'm not going to defend the pirates, but I'm *certainly* not going to defend the recording artists or their labels either.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#32)
by fluffy grue on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 11:32:14 PM EST

Hey Rusty, where'd my HTML formatting go?<p> Huh?
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#42)
by rusty on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 04:49:25 PM EST

Sorry about that. There was a window of time when HTML wasn't working right. It should be fixed now.

FWIW, I don't really use napster, because the quality just isn't up to par. I have good speakers and a subwoofer, and MP3's at anything below 192 just sound like crap to me. I rip all mine at 256K. What I really wish is that I could buy quality MP3's from the labels, to save me the effort of ripping my own.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#44)
by fluffy grue on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 10:20:08 PM EST

Yeah, as I've said elsewhere, I just use Napster to preview songs to try to locate an album or whatever. Myself, I encode all my MP3s using LAME at VBR quality 4 (averages 160Kbit but will go up to 256 if necessary), lower bound 8Kbit (though I've never seen it go below 64 except on silence), and it sounds absolutely *pristine*... this coming from a person who regularly spends a few hours tweaking her stereo system to try to get it ever closer to the ultimate flat curve on all 5.1 channels using a tone generator, a pink noise generator, and a decibel meter... :)

I can usually tell the difference between 128Kbit and the source raw data (128Kbit usually doesn't have the very faint noise floor indicative of a single slightly-noisy connection on some mixer in the recording studio). I can't tell the difference between the aforementioned rip mechanism and the source raw data, even after intense scrutinizing listening; every album I have ripped that way sounds exactly like the original, flaws, defects, noise and all. Which is too bad in some cases, such as Apollo 18 by They Might Be Giants (whoever they had as their studio tech at the time needs to be beaten up and tortured for a while).
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: I find it disgusting that so many p... (none / 0) (#29)
by Nelson on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:47:57 PM EST

I agree. I think the idea of demoing stuff before you buy it is awesome. Of course, for that purpose we could get buy with 64Kbit MP3s but that's not what napster is all about. I think that the majority of the users of napster are using it to pirate music. Adovcating things like gnutella ignores the problem.

[ Parent ]
Yaaaay. More pretentious "artists"... (none / 0) (#10)
by fluffy grue on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 01:58:13 AM EST

fluffy grue voted 0 on this story.

Yaaaay. More pretentious "artists" saying how Napster has cheapened their "art" and turned it into a commodity. Fuck them.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]

TANSTAAFL... (none / 0) (#2)
by Paul Dunne on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 02:05:40 AM EST

Paul Dunne voted -1 on this story.

TANSTAAFL
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/

I'm bored of Napster/Gnutella stori... (none / 0) (#12)
by pwhysall on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 07:27:50 AM EST

pwhysall voted 0 on this story.

I'm bored of Napster/Gnutella stories now.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown

Napster is not good for most curren... (none / 0) (#5)
by Nyarlathotep on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:06:30 AM EST

Nyarlathotep voted 1 on this story.

Napster is not good for most current musicians since they have sold their music to the labels to buy promotion. Napstre is good for independant artists who need all the promotion they can get. Napster could be bad for independent musicians in the long run since it can use it's market share to make musicians pay for promotion (like the radio stations and MTV), but the Gnutella like programs can only be a good thing for independant musicians since they are not centrally controlled. Napster being killed will help Gnutella, but only if Gnutella is scalable (it's not currently scalabe) and the action which kills Napster dose not set a very bad precedent. I would like to remind all aspiring OSS apthors who are looking for the project which will make their name. Gnutella has interesting problems to be solved. If we fix Gnutella's scalability issues, make bandwidth limiting feature user friendly, make the protocoll hiding features more user friendly, and hide the protocoll in an encrypted protocoll like SSH then Gnutella will be unstopable.
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!

Artists benefit little from concert... (none / 0) (#4)
by bmetzler on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 09:04:38 AM EST

bmetzler voted -1 on this story.

Artists benefit little from concerts, and mostly from record sales.

Besides, I'm tired hearing about Napster.


www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (none / 0) (#25)
by Commienst on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:01:00 PM EST

Its the other way around...
musicians benefit little from record sales and mostly from concerts.

Musicians (It offends me when people call modern musicians artists. Britney Spears, Backstreet boys, Limp Bizkit Ol' Dirty Bastard, artists? Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Yngwie Malmsteem and Black Sabbath now their artists.) really gety shafted when it comes to records. They get the cost of the plastic, little cover pamphlet (that used to have song lyrics on it) and even staples deducted from the check they get for record sales.

[ Parent ]

Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (none / 0) (#35)
by skim123 on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 01:14:36 AM EST

<I>It offends me when people call modern musicians artists. Britney Spears, Backstreet boys, Limp Bizkit Ol' Dirty Bastard, artists? Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Yngwie Malmsteem and Black Sabbath now their artists.</I><P>Can't help but agree with you there. Perhaps the term <i>artist</i> should only be used for those who place their art form above money. It would seem a <b>real</b> artist would be for whatever gets their artistic creations into the most hands as possible. Granted, people must eat, but it always seemed to me that a true artist would put food a step down beneath their art.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (1.00 / 1) (#36)
by rusty on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 01:45:52 AM EST

Dammit. Will the pain never end? :-/

This is a test of HTML Posting

Did it work?

Ok, looks like it. Now I'll see if it does what it's <SCRPIT=" supposed to.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (2.00 / 1) (#41)
by rusty on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 04:45:46 PM EST

> Perhaps the term artist should only
> be used for those who place their art form above money.

Oh come on. Not to be antagonistic, but that's just crap. You think Michaelangelo wasn't in it for the money? You think Led Zepplin weren't? People have awfully weird ideas of what art is supposed to be about these days, and they have a lot less to do with the actual art, and more to do with the personality mold you're supposed to fit in to be called an "Artist".

I mantain, now, as always, that art is an object or creation of some kind. It doesn't matter if it was made for money, or who made it, or why, or what their hair looks like, or even if it was made in order to be "art". It doesn't matter if it was kicked out of MOMA by Giuliani. None of that is important. The important thing is, when you look at it, do you think "Now *that's* art!"?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (none / 0) (#46)
by Commienst on Fri Apr 21, 2000 at 11:29:03 PM EST

Well not many people become artists or musicians for the money. The expression starving artists comes to mind. When your starting out as a garage band its all in fun. If your likely enough to get signed then things change... for the worse in my opinion, then it becomes all about money.

[ Parent ]
Re: Artists benefit little from concert... (2.00 / 1) (#30)
by Tr3534 on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 10:14:26 PM EST

want to see how the artist gets shafted by the labels?

http://www.atlantic-satellite.com/major_la.htm

hmmm.... sounds like the label helps them a lot, really? the concert is really
the big push.

Sigmentation Fault: Post Dumped.
[ Parent ]
Rounding down from -0.5. The whole... (none / 0) (#14)
by marlowe on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 09:32:36 AM EST

marlowe voted -1 on this story.

Rounding down from -0.5. The whole topic is getting old for me.
-- The Americans are the Jews of the 21st century. Only we won't go as quietly to the gas chambers. --

Copyright, intellectual property an... (none / 0) (#19)
by jackyb on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 09:47:53 AM EST

jackyb voted 1 on this story.

Copyright, intellectual property and licensing are all concepts that are going to have to change. We need some far-sighted individuals to work out a way that companies can make money out of music when they can't sell it any more. Tough, but it must be possible.

This gets covered every other artic... (none / 0) (#18)
by YellowBook on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 12:53:50 PM EST

YellowBook voted -1 on this story.

This gets covered every other article on that other website.

Unfortunately, I saw a link in HNN ... (none / 0) (#3)
by joeyo on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 01:26:48 PM EST

joeyo voted 1 on this story.

Unfortunately, I saw a link in HNN the other day to this CNN article saying that users of Napster may be in violation of the 1997 No Electronic Theft Act....

--
"Give me enough variables to work with, and I can probably do away with the notion of human free will." -- demi

I love Dre and hate to see him maki... (none / 0) (#11)
by gnuchris on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 02:59:47 PM EST

gnuchris voted -1 on this story.

I love Dre and hate to see him making an ass of himself.. I'm gonna try to supress this post like it's 1984...
"He had alot to say, He had alot of nothing to say" -TOOL-

Bleh. mp3 this and mp3 that, Napste... (none / 0) (#15)
by theduke on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 03:27:22 PM EST

theduke voted -1 on this story.

Bleh. mp3 this and mp3 that, Napster this and Napster that. Is anyone else sick as hell of hearing mainstream media reporting generally uninformed, biased, trite information about the subject? *cough*

I don't think I've heard anything m... (none / 0) (#13)
by nascent on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 04:16:41 PM EST

nascent voted 1 on this story.

I don't think I've heard anything more absurd than Metallica saying:

"It is therefore sickening to know that our art is being traded like a commodity rather than the art that it is."

What??? They have a record deal worth millions and that's not "commodity"?? And when I share it with someone it becomes less artistic?? What a bunch of raving bull****. HOW DO THEY SNEAK THIS **** BY??
nascent
http://www.intap.net/~j/

Explain some of the reasons of why ... (none / 0) (#7)
by Alorelith on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 04:18:58 PM EST

Alorelith voted 1 on this story.

Explain some of the reasons of why Gnutella is better and what things will be done to ensure this doesn't happen to it.

----
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. -- Nietzsche

Re: Explain some of the reasons of why ... (none / 0) (#26)
by gnuchris on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 08:04:04 PM EST

Gnutella is true distributed computing.. there is no central servers, thus noone to sue. The Music Industry can sue Napster, because A) they are a corporation B) you first connect to thier server.. so they are in a round about way trafficing MP3's. Gnutella has no central servers, but every user is both a server and a client...
"He had alot to say, He had alot of nothing to say" -TOOL-
[ Parent ]
Re: Explain some of the reasons of why ... (none / 0) (#45)
by Alorelith on Fri Apr 21, 2000 at 01:22:47 AM EST

   Ahh ok thanks.  I haven't gotten into the whole Napster/Gnutella thing yet
because my soundcard just refuses to work under GNU/Linux.  It's a Sonic Impact
Pro S90, and I know there are drivers for it, but it doesn't work.  I think I
know the reason, however; I have to move it to a different PCI slot, but I'm
just too lazy.	I'll get around to it.	I really should get around to fixing
it, though, as there is a lot of cool metal stuff out there that I want to
listen but find rather hard to locate because of the rarity of mp3s and such
(music such as Esoteric, Rhapsody, ya know, REAL METAL!)  
   Gnutella sounds generally interesting, though.  I like the idea of it being
more like the Internet, and not some centralized system that can impose its own
restrictions as it grows in size.  


----
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. -- Nietzsche

[ Parent ]
I agree, napster was a cool idea, b... (none / 0) (#20)
by ishbak on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 05:23:20 PM EST

ishbak voted 1 on this story.

I agree, napster was a cool idea, but it spawned better ideas and networks(gnutella). The centralized server makes it an easy target for lawsuits.

Blah. What can Napster do? If the... (none / 0) (#9)
by evro on Wed Apr 19, 2000 at 05:37:47 PM EST

evro voted 1 on this story.

Blah. What can Napster do? If they block out everything with Dr. Dre, or Metallica in the title, can't people just say M-e-t-a-l-l-i-c-a, and get by any search? Short of shutting down Napster completely, I don't see any remedy to this problem.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"

Re: More Artists Going After Napster (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous Hero on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 12:30:19 PM EST

Good for him. If somone was stealing from me I sure as hell would do what I
could to stop it. Using MP3's to pirate music is WRONG....it's just theft.
Artists see very little profit from CD sales (comapred to what the Label makes)
as it is, and piracy makes that situation even worse.

And it's not just the big, rich artists that are losing money from
MP3...everyone gets ripped off...even small artists/labels trying to make ends
meeet.

Just my 01. 



Re: More Artists Going After Napster (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous Hero on Thu Apr 20, 2000 at 09:33:08 PM EST

It occurs to me, that considering how well known some of the people working for napster are in the security/hacker community, there will probably be a few more pages like this http://www.attrition.org/mirror/attrition/2000/04/14/www.metallica.com/. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the RIAA right now. Seems like they're gonna be screwed if the lose, and screwed if they win.

More Artists Going After Napster | 46 comments (46 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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