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[P]
Motion-Feedback Gaming at Home

By fluffy grue in News
Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:44:19 AM EST
Tags: Hardware (all tags)
Hardware

The Rock'N'Ride is a relatively-new motion-feedback device for home gaming. A motion-feedback device, of course, is better known as one of those big-ass hydraulically-moved flight simulator cabinets you sometimes see in arcades. This one is scaled down for the home, using compressed air instead of costly and messy hydraulics, and can either operate off the joystick itself or have motion feedback sent to it from the game (apparently, Descent 3 supports this, for example, and the Linux port which Loki is rumored to be working on likely will too).


When I first heard about this, I thought that it would cause even more problems with "DOOM sickness," but then upon thinking about it further, I realized that this could actually be an effective prevention, since the current favored theory of FPS motion sickness is due to the mismatch between the motion you're seeing and the fact you're not feeling any acceleration. What do you think?

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Motion-Feedback Gaming at Home | 46 comments (46 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
yet another company i won't take se... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by Inferno on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 12:34:36 AM EST

Inferno voted -1 on this story.

yet another company i won't take seriously until they hire someone over the age of 7 to design their web page...

Re: yet another company i won't take se... (none / 0) (#17)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 08:18:49 PM EST

Yeah, actually, if I'd seen the site in anything other than w3m (a layout-honoring text-only browser for those who don't know), I probably wouldn't have submitted it, actually, since after I submitted it I had a chance to see it in Netscape and suddenly felt kinda remorseful about it.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Geek Gets Head Bashed in by Monitor... (3.00 / 1) (#1)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 12:39:22 AM EST

rusty voted 1 on this story.

Geek Gets Head Bashed in by Monitor

A local gaming geek was killed yesterday when the 19 inch monitor fell off his "Rock 'n' Ride" home motion feedback device, impacting his face just as he was about to face the Evil Larcutor in his favorite game "Evil Bloody Death 3"... ;-)

____
Not the real rusty

Just wait until this hits the adult... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by driph on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 12:57:41 AM EST

Driph voted 1 on this story.

Just wait until this hits the adult industry.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave

What about price, availability? Is ... (none / 0) (#4)
by Velian on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 01:13:40 AM EST

Velian voted 0 on this story.

What about price, availability? Is it practical? We could use some more details.

This would normally get an almost instant +1 in my vote, but I don't think this is that special. I more prefer new technology or things that are more of a bigger deal.

I want one.... (1.00 / 1) (#8)
by JumpSuit Boy on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 01:19:37 AM EST

JumpSuit Boy voted 1 on this story.

I want one.
The Director disavows any knowledge of the preceding comment.

Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#5)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:08:34 AM EST

pvg voted 1 on this story.

Cool toy, wonder if I can find some place local in the SF Bay Area to check it out.

I'm a a fairly avid gamer (Daikatana demo install awaits right after I finish this comment) and follow game-related news/developments but this thing has somehow escaped my notice. I did a bit of prowling on the web - references show up from as early as late 1997. The price (or possibly the price of an older model) used to be around $700 + $100 for the compressor. More recent reports (late '99) talk about $1300 without the compressor. The rocknride website itself has no pricing info other than mentioning that it is 'under $2000'.

I then came across what appears to be the website of the original developer. Cybermind? Hmm, that sounds familiar. There were a bunch of rather lame 'VR' arcades with that name in the mid 90's or so. There used to be one in the San Francisco Embarcadero centre. Further digging around revealed that Cybermind AG is some sort of investment fund. Their main page outlines their history, strategy, investments and subsidiaries. The lame VR games are made by their UK subsidiary.

I don't know much about the causes and mechanics of motion sickness but you don't have to be an MD to notice that people often get it when there is a disconnect between the visual and 'tactile' feeling of motion - you play an FPS but you don't move, you move in the backseat of a car on a windy road but you don't see. It'd be interesting to find out if this device makes a difference to those affected when playing first-person-view games.

Btw, grue - I think this is a good story exactly for the same reasons I didn't like your 'voice news readout' submission. It's a link, sure, but: the story has had less exposure, the site is awful and you've summarized the key info well plus you've thrown in an interesting idea of your own. In fact, the only thing I can complain about is that you've denied me the oppurtunity to conclude with 'Duh!' :)



Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#10)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:44:36 PM EST

Wow, lots of neat links there. I wouldn't be surprised (based on the quality of the website in question) if rocknride.com were just a lame-ass reseller who got the domain before Cybermind thought to. (Oh, and incidentally, I heard about this from the person who works for Loki who's porting Descent 3. i.e. it's not really a rumor. :)

As far as story quality: maybe my "What do you think?" troll at the end actually worked, since it had the nice effect of turning the article into a question, hence a seed for discussion. It was kind of a proof of concept. I noticed that nobody complained about this story being not discussable, even though the only way it was really different from my normal stories is that it ended with the WDYT. Keep that in mind before you down-moderate a story for being undiscussable in the future, okay? ;)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#14)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 08:08:07 PM EST

I think you might be taking indivudual votes on some of your submissions somewhat personally. I don't recall ever voting on a story because it's 'undiscussable', I've never even used the term. Most of my votes (especially recent ones, when I realized vote comments go into the main comments if the story is accepted) try to explain why I voted a particular way. I voted -1 on one of your previous submissions because it was already widely covered and you did little beyond repeating it and posting a link. I voted +1 on this one because it isn't as widely covered, the linked site is uninformative and you summarized it and you suggested what I thought was an interesting idea about the device. It wasn't because I thought either was 'undiscussable' or I was mesmerized by the 'What do you think?' at the end. I think I've made a reasonable effort to explain my reasons.

You have an interest in the stories you post and you'd like to see them accepted and discussed. You come to the discussion forum and imply that people who vote -1 on a submission of yours are doing so for superficial reasons and you can jedi-mind-trick them into voting positively. This doesn't strike me as a very contructive generalization and it's unlikely to make you more credible.

Suppose you and I disagreed on the type of story that should make it to the front page. Suppose we had the following hypothetical conversation:

fluffy grue: Here's a link to something cool. Check it. 
pvg        : Hmm, well, I've seen this all over the place
             before. There are lots of places to find 
             news so I'm more interested what people
             think about the news rather than the news
             itself. 
fluffy grue: You can find out what people think in the
             discussions. I kinda like unadulterated
             news better than someone's blatherings about
             what it means. Btw, here's another link.  
             It's about foo.  I think foo might be useful for bar. 
pvg        : Foo looks cool! Thanks for summarizing what
             foo is about, that foo site is a mess.
             I found these other links that are also
             about foo. The idea about bar you had is 
             interesting. 
Now consider the following two hypothetical responses.
fluffy grue: Ha! Fooled you! That second link was just a
             plain old link like the first one! I'm 
             really getting tired of people yelling
             'undiscussable' and 'link-propagation'. I 
             just demonstrated that such people are 
             not terribly bright, their views are 
             arbitrary and irrational. Think about that
             next time you say you don't like my link. 
OR
fluffy grue: Glad you liked it. Personally, I still 
             think straight links are worthwhile and 
             capable of generating their own interesting
             discussions. I realize there are readers who
             don't share this view. Maybe I'll try picking 
             less-exposed news items and toss in some thoughts
             of my own, so the stories engage a wider audience. 
             But I'm not sure I can/want to do this. Perhaps
             we can come up with a Scoop feature that will
             better categorize straight news so we can
             have both news and opinions without endlessly
             arguing what belongs where. 
Which one of these hypothetical responses do you feel is more effective?

[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#16)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 08:17:12 PM EST

It's not just my articles. It's practically everything which has been in the submission queue. I'm not trying to single you out, it's just a general trend I've noticed here. I realize, however, that the way I responded to your comment was somewhat immature, but you did bring it up.

Whatever. I'm just hoping that people will stop whining about so-called "link propagation," since then I can stop whining about the whining. :)

<rant type="public">FWIW, I still think that the argument that "such-and-such has been seen elsewhere" is crap. Everything on the web has been seen somewhere else; that's the way the web is, and I'm not about to go checking other weblogs all day just to make sure that a link isn't already known about by other people. I've seen plenty of complaints in voting about how "Slashdot already had this" or "The Guardian already had this" or "BBC already had this" or "The Register already had a story about this" or whatever. I mean, okay, pointing out that this is the case is fine, but good god, don't vote it down simply because of that reason!</rant>
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#18)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 09:17:12 PM EST

Hopefully the "Mindless Link Propagation" section will help solve this... Also, neither of you are considering too much how perhaps the software could help resolve this dispute. That's of course, my angle on it, since I can't really make anyone change their minds about what the culture should be. I can influence the culture through the underlying software we use, though. Do you think having sections would help with these diputes? And further, do you think we should allow submitters to classify their posts, or the voters? That's my big $64,000 question lately.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#20)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 09:57:10 PM EST

My rantings must have been too long and verbose because using the software to solve the problem was (or so I thought) one of my main points. Yes, I think the software can be adapted to handle this and yes I think it's the right way to solve the problem. I think there are clearly enough people interested in straight news to warrant a news or 'mindless link propagation' or 'lifted off the web' section. I think this section should have discussions just like the ones we have now. It should have a separate, faster submission queue and clear instructions on the criteria (e.g. 'vote yes if it's of interest and you want to talk about it, don't vote no just because you read it elsewhere 20 minutes ago'). The separate queues take care of the 'news vs views' classification. If straight news is submitted into the views section and people are aware of the criteria, it will probably get a lot of -1s and comments suggesting the more appropriate queue. Same goes for a 5 page essay on the semiotics of free OS names submitted as news. It would be great if the front page view is configurable so you can pick whether you want news and views in a mixed list, or you want them separated or perhaps you want news first and views in a side box or vice versa, etc, etc.

Anyhow, these ideas are straight off the top of my head, writing as I'm thinking. You might want to post a meta article about it if you feel a discussion could yield useful suggestions. I'm certainly prepared to rant about it at length :)

[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#22)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:22:54 PM EST

A) Um, Ok, I missed your points about fixing the software. I've been misreading things tonight...

B) All the ideas in the above post are pretty much my plans for further development. It's really nice to hear them confirmed in someone else's words. :-) The only small change I'd make is to encourage people to post a link in MLP if it is "neato, interesting, or share-worthy". It doesn't matter really if no one has anything interesting to say about it-- the discussions will be there, but the section is for Mindless Link Propagation, so be as mindless as you wanna be.

C) I'd like there to be a way for voters to re-classify a submission while voting, but I'm not sure how to do it, technically...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#27)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:59:07 PM EST

A) No worries. My posts were pretty long and I can't expect anyone to be digging through someone else's bickerfest looking for software ideas :)

B) I'll spare you the cliches about the similarity of thought pattern between great (or deranged) minds. I think you're right about posting to MLP - as long as the poster feels it's worth posting, s/he should have full license to be as mindless as s/he likes.

C) One way this could be done is to change the voting options in the 'views' queue slightly. Instead of 'post it', 'trash it', 'don't care' one could try 'post it', 'trash it', 'don't care', 'belongs in MLP'. Items that gather sufficient 'belongs in MLP' votes get whisked to the MLP queue where voting starts anew. The reverse feature is probably not neccessary - it's unlikely non-MLP content will end up in the non-MLP queue and if it does, the non-MLP stuff is usually not time-critical - the author can just resubmit.

D) We've turned this thread into real-time chat.

[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#28)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 11:12:22 PM EST

About voting-- read fluffy's suggestion elsewhere in this thread (or thereabouts) about voting. The crux is, make voting an issue of classification, rather than straight yes/no. So, I submit an article, everyone else start saying "This goes in "News"" or "This goes in the rewrite bin" or, heaven forbid, "This goes in the trash". Each section has it's own threshold, and the classification votes become a "race"-- first section to get enough votes to pass it's threshold, the story goes there. Does that sound better? Nice side-effects are, it's *really* easy to do the rewrite section, and also you can have a "trash bin" for rejected stories, thus making even them accessible to those who really want to see 'em. Nifty, huh?

And now, my movie has arrived (Cronenberg's ExistenZ), so I'm gonna go watch it. No more chat. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#33)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:02:02 AM EST

Oh, and to try to prove that I'm not just full of shit when I say that I'd
mailed you these ideas before: (to your credit, you may not have actually
gotten them... oh, and okay, it was just one email, but still, I already TOLD
you about this idea :)

From magenta@twu.net Mon Mar 27 16:18:45 2000
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:18:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Magenta Hari Nezumi <magenta@twu.net>
To: rusty@intes.net
Subject: Hm - rejected stories page? (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000327161739.17938C-100000@twu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Arg, your MX settings at intes.net are fubared (someone seems to have
removed the relay/MX entry for kuro5hin.org), so I'm having to mail this
to you here and hope it works.

---
Magenta H. Nezumi
http://trikuare.cx

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:13:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Magenta Hari Nezumi <magenta@twu.net>
To: rusty@kuro5hin.org
Subject: Hm - rejected stories page?

There are a few stories which have been rejected which I've wanted to see,
even though others haven't.  Any chance rejected stories could just go
into another bin?  In fact, how about this idea: when someone submits a
story, poeple vote on which "section" (story bin, whatever) it goes into,
and after there's a certain amount of time or a clear majority of votes,
it'd go there.	That way we could have community-decided frontpage,
inside, quickies, and so forth...

Food for thoguht.  (I was really looking forward to the "signifigant other
unit" story, even though most others weren't.  Though I think the biggest
problem with that one was an unclear writeup - I understood it
perfectly,b ut most peoples' comments were just "WTF?" or the like.)

---
Magenta H. Nezumi
http://trikuare.cx

--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

yeah... (none / 0) (#35)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:07:59 AM EST

Crap. Yeah I remember that one. I also remember that day. It was, through no fault of your own, a really bad day to send me a really good idea. My buffers had been full for hours by the time this hit them. :-)

General rule: If I don't respond to an email in any coherent way, send it again (or perhaps rephrase the idea and send a different message). I almost *never* just ignore email, so if yours gets ignored, it's probably because I either didn't see it or saw it and was swamped with stuff, and it got scrolled off my inbox display before I got a chance to reply. Don't be afraid to pester if you feel like I'm not answering! I'm not the most organized person, so I'll thank you for it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah... (none / 0) (#37)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:10:35 AM EST

Heh, understood. I'm the same way, really. I'm just giving you a hard time. ;)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#36)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:09:17 AM EST

Oh, wait, no, I did send you another message on it!  Ha!  Okay, so it doesn't
really talk about the whole thing, and so if you didn't get the first message
it's still moot, but...  (this was before I came to you with my hare-brained
<a href="http://trikuare.cx/~magenta/recipes/">recipe section</a>
idea)

From magenta@twu.net Tue Apr  4 11:36:58 2000
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:36:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magenta Hari Nezumi <magenta@twu.net>
To: rusty@kuro5hin.org
Subject: Hm
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000404112942.31293A-100000@twu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
Content-Length: 626
Lines: 18

How about THIS idea for story filtering:  Again, this is based on the
"buckets" idea, but you have these buckets:

News (for Neat Stuff a'la Slashdot)
Discussion (for discussion pieces a'la K5)
Quickies (of course)
Junk (discard pile)

Then if something's in Junk, it only remains there for a week, but someone
(who hasn't tried to submit it before) can edit it and resubmit it into
the queue to make an additional attempt at getting it into a real section.
(Resubmitting it removes it from the Junk section, of course.)	This would
make it like story meta-moderation or something.

---
Magenta H. Nezumi
http://trikuare.cx

--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#38)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:12:30 AM EST

Somebody forgot to submit in html mode. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#39)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:16:40 AM EST

No, I forgot I was submitting in text mode because I didn't weant to bother HTMLizing that damned long email. :)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#40)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:32:38 AM EST

   Even in
html formatted mode
<PRE>
	tags are a
   wonderful
                        thing....
:-)

Yes, I know they aren't listed as "allowed". The code update coming soon fixes that. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#41)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 02:49:02 AM EST

Ah! But, you spoony bard, there's still <s and >s in the mail headers, which I really didn't want to convert, which was the other reaosn I posted as text.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#42)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 03:18:28 AM EST

Didja try it? Despite recent.. err... events (nay, because of them!) it really is pretty good about not html-ifying stuff unless it's valid html, and allowed tags. For example: (this is submitted as HTML and the following is wrapped in PRE tags, pasted in literally from your comment above)
From magenta@twu.net Tue Apr  4 11:36:58 2000
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:36:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magenta Hari Nezumi <magenta@twu.net>
To: rusty@kuro5hin.org
Subject: Hm
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000404112942.31293A-100000@twu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
Content-Length: 626
Lines: 18

How about THIS idea for story filtering:  Again, this is based on the
"buckets" idea, but you have these buckets:

News (for Neat Stuff a'la Slashdot)
Discussion (for discussion pieces a'la K5)
Quickies (of course)
Junk (discard pile)

Then if something's in Junk, it only remains there for a week, but someone
(who hasn't tried to submit it before) can edit it and resubmit it into
the queue to make an additional attempt at getting it into a real section.
(Resubmitting it removes it from the Junk section, of course.)  This would
make it like story meta-moderation or something.

---
Magenta H. Nezumi
http://trikuare.cx
It's too bad that years of slack entity-handling has ingrained such skittishness in website-comment posters, but in general, it really is pretty hard to break the filters here. Now I just need to get it to recognize when it's supposed to maintain &lt; and &gt; after preview, and we'll be set. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#43)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:11:32 PM EST

So basically, your HTML filter is too sane for my tastes, Mr. Ferrous Oxide. I will keep that in mind.

I hate all the billions of webboards out there each with their own mechanisms and protocols for formatting. In particular, I *really* hate UBB with its "UBBCode" crap which basically just (badly) reimplements HTML - and then it still can be configured to accept HTML *anyway*. Kinda pointless. And then I can't remember if it inserts

s after each line or on blank lines or what, and so I end up just posting to UBB-based webboards as though I were posting to K5 - I put in my own damned formatting, and figure that extra lines between paragraphs aren't going to rape puppies, kick children, and unleash Ebola Zaïre upon the world. Then there's other boards which will sometimes convert <s and >s to &lt;s and &gt;s (heh, talk about quines for that last example) for you, some which go to the *hideous* extreme of converting your quotes into MSFT StupidQuotes&tm;, and, in general, NONE of them tell you what sorts of processing they do or what formatting protocol you should take.

My favorite way of doing it is the hands-off way of Slash and Scoop. Either you post as text, or you pretend to be a webmaster with every comment you post. I prefer the latter.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#44)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 04:48:14 PM EST

What I hate especially is what UBB does, with that "converts blank lines to linebreaks even if you post html" crap. Dammit, if I post HTML, I want it to *act* like html! And HTML doesn't do that. Basically, my way is the Right Way. The only Right Way. Except for where it's broken, but even that is at least admittedly broken, and therefore in theory, still eventually the Right Way. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#25)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:34:32 PM EST

Yes, I feel that sections would easily remedy this problem. However, as I've mentioned to you before in email, rather than voting 'yes' or 'no' on acceptance for a particular posting, I'd much rather see the voting go for which section it goes into. If you want it trashed, it should go into the 'trash pile' section where someone can choose to edit and resubmit it, or it'll die after a week in there.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#26)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:47:27 PM EST

Hey! that's a fantastic idea. Instead of yes or no, they simply classify into sections-- that makes "rewrite" and showing rejected posts really easy. Each section could still have it's own threshold, and then it'd be a "race"-- when a story got enough votes in one section to pass that section's threshold, it'd go there. Hey, this totally revises my thinking about this. You rock. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#31)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 12:55:04 AM EST

So how come you never replied to the three or four emails I sent you with this idea? :)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#32)
by rusty on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 12:58:55 AM EST

Did you send me 3 or 4 emails about it? Did any of them bounce? Hmmm. I just looked through my messages, and you did mention something like that-- in fact, it could be the same idea-- but it wasn't as clear. Anyway, I'm sorry if I missed this before. Once in a while emails do filter through the cracks and disappear in space. They say the average human can only hold 7 things in his head at once. Maybe my buffers were full that day.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#34)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 01:04:43 AM EST

I guess I only sent two, of which the first one did bounce (hence the second one, sent directly to you at intes.net). See a different comment.

I forgive you, in any case. At least you eventually got the picture. :)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#19)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 09:29:40 PM EST

I brought it up because it seemed like a good oppurtunity to clarify why I was voting the way I was voting. I'm sure it's frustrating to read a dissenting vote or opinion backed with nothing better than 'undiscussable!' or 'linkprop!'.

As to the whether 'seen before' matters or not, I think it does matter because the news 'market' on the web is extremely saturated. If you want to contribute news, you're in an extremely competitive place - you'll probably agree that stale news defeats the purpose of news. If the news has already reached high-profile, well-known news sites repeating it as just news seems like overkill. If you wanted to follow slashdot but have different discussions, you could just syndicate slashdot content and slap scoop on the backend. I understand why you're 'whining about the whining', I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with it as such. I am, though, hoping to convince you that it's probably not going to be terribly effective. Consider actual solutions to the problem - beat more recent source out of rusty, suggest/design/implement/organize a set of features that handles news better. It will help the community scale. Some obvious approaches include bringing in external syndicated content (say, from slashdot or advogato) and allowing local threaded discussion. Or creating a 'just the links ma'am' area with more loosely defined submission criteria and a separate queue with faster turnaround - nobody will bitch it's just links because that's what its supposed to be. I'm sure you can come up with a number of options.

P.S. The Daikatana demo was awful.

[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#21)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:07:59 PM EST

beat more recent source out of rusty

Please sir, may I have another!

The rest of it (mailing lists, scoop.kuro5hin.org, etc) is all going up as we speak. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#23)
by pvg on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:23:31 PM EST

Revision 1.1.1.1, Age: 9 Minutes

Still warm and with that 'newly checked-in code' freshness smell.

[ Parent ]

Re: Cool toy, wonder if I can find some... (none / 0) (#24)
by rusty on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 10:25:15 PM EST

Mmmm. Code rot hasn't set in yet. ;-) I think it'll be tomorrow when I officially announce this, once we have scoop.kuro5hin.org set up properly and make sure everything's where it should be. But this is my good-faith evidence that I'm not just blowing everyone off.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Well, I dont have any interest in g... (none / 0) (#7)
by jetpack on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:30:54 AM EST

jetpack voted 1 on this story.

Well, I dont have any interest in getting one of these things, but I"m fairly sure the community-at-large would be interested in hearing about it. Altho, I'd never buy from anyone that had a website so hideous unless I had heard many good things from folks I trust about ordering from them and about their product. BTW, have you noticed that this "voting for story submision" produces some rather odd results? Many people seem to vote on the basis of their personal interests, rather than whether or not an new submission is in the spirit of the site and/or the community. Not actually a complaint, yet, just an observation.
--
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves */

Re: Well, I dont have any interest in g... (none / 0) (#12)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 03:08:49 PM EST

Worse than that, a LOT of people seem to vote based on the style of the writeup. This is something I've been publically complaining about a bit lately (and, as I've said elsewhere, the What do you think? was an experiment to see if this would shut up the people constantly crying 'link propagation,' and this seems to have had that effect).
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

voting (none / 0) (#13)
by jetpack on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 06:30:56 PM EST

Worse than that, a LOT of people seem to vote based on the style of the writeup.

Yes, I've noticed that as well, particularly with the security articles by inoshoru (sp?). Oh well, K5 is still new and it's community is still trying to grok the scene. I guess some are having trouble getting out of the /. mindset? :)
--
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves */
[ Parent ]

Re: voting (none / 0) (#15)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 08:09:39 PM EST

I think they're overcompensating, because it's the /.-style stories which they whine about. Personally, I came to K5 in order to replace /. in my daily routine, and it's not like /. ever had any trouble getting discussions on /.-style articles. I happen to LIKE the /. article style, I just don't like the people there.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: voting (none / 0) (#29)
by jetpack on Sun Apr 23, 2000 at 12:32:42 AM EST

Hmmm.

First, since we seem to have a dialog going, despite it's offtopic nature (let
me know if you'd rather take this to email), I've always been curious about
some of the complaints folks have about /.  Unless I'm moderating (which i dont
do anymore anyway) I surf threaded, highest scores first and only display
scores above 1.  I see very little of the true bullshit on /. although
admittedly I may miss a few of the rare gems that are marked as permanent
trolls.  I agree that there are a lot of idiots on ./. but you dont have to pay
attention to them.  I've never understood why people complain about the
trolls/flaimbaits/etc/ are such a big deal.  The filter works rather well.

I dont moderate much anymore on /. because there seem to be a number of
metamoderators that are twits.	It's an ego thing, I guess ... I dont want to
lose my +1 option :)

As for K5, I'm not looking for a replacement for /. I'm looking for a different
atmosphere.  More like /. in the "old days", when people cared more about the
website then they did about their personal "rights" on the site, less about
zealotry, and so on.  And K5 doesnt make my eyeballs hurt :)

I expect, unfortunately, as the K5 readership picks up, we'll eventually see
the same crap here as on /.  As one /. readers sig says "in any sufficiently
large group of people, most are idiots"

However, I like the method of moderation, story submission, and lack of karma
here.  We'll just have to wait and see if it is enough to take care of the
nasty properties /. has when readership picks up to something approaching the
/. level.

OTOH,  if what you meant by "I just don't like the people there" means you dont
like rob/hemos/et al, my discussion is moot :)

--
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves */
[ Parent ]
Re: voting (none / 0) (#30)
by fluffy grue on Mon Apr 24, 2000 at 12:52:50 AM EST

The trolls I could stand. Some of them were quite funny. It's Rob and Hemos, the perennial sellouts, the "we're humble, even though we're now filthy stinking rich" guys, whom I can't stand, it's the obvious corporate interests, the furthering of their supposed culture, their way of idolizing people like ESR simply because of reputation and not based on what they're actually saying, their way of being so hypocritical when it comes to what they're all about (I seem to recall Rob and Hemos whining quite a bit about software projects which were delayed or cancelled or not-quite-perfectly-RMS-compatible-Free, only to be egomaniacs regarding Slash). I also can't stand the karma whores, the people who spout off with uninformed nonsense just to get moderated up, the people who moderate the uninformed nonsense up, the moderators who make moderation a Big Fucking Deal as though they're God's gift to the world just because they have 5 fucking moderator points, I can't stand the fact that because I had a karma of something like 120 I was labelled a karma whore even though I tried to be intelligible and was moderated up for actually knowing what I was talking about (usually, except for the times when I was either not getting enough sleep or was testing to see what would happen if I made some *ludicrously* wrong statements). I can't stand the moderators who moderated things wrong (one experimental troll of mine got moderated as 'redundant' when it was the second post or so and was about cooking and eating a goose while it was still alive), the meta-moderators who actually thought they were doing something useful, the people whining and complaining about being victimized by the trolls (like that LinuxOne guy who claimed the whole /. crowd was out to get him just because he's black). I hate Jon Katz and Roblimo (I've got relatively personal reasons for both which I won't go into), I hate the fact that Slashdot has become nothing but pandering to the wannabe-opensource-and-cutting-edge-technology people. In a way, they've turned into Wired. Every now and then I'll look at /.'s front page to see if there's anything useful, to remind myself of what I'm missing, in the same way that once a year or so I'll shop at Wal-Mart just to remind myself why I don't shop there.

I hate all of it. Except the trolls. Towards the end of my time on /., I actually only read the comments for the trolls. They were eventually the only thing which made it worthwhile going to the comments section.

Oh, and I *really* hate Rob's stopgap 'solutions' to various site-specific problems. I've not looked at Slash's code, but as far as I can tell from the outside, at this point it's more duct tape than glue.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Re: voting (none / 0) (#45)
by jetpack on Wed Apr 26, 2000 at 10:28:19 PM EST

Heh, well, I guess you are indeed one of the folks that I've been wondering about :) <> On the other hand, I still don't understand the vehemence. The fact of the matter is that it's Rob's site, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it, including get rich off it (I'm not really convinced he's filthy rich now, I've never seen any numbers), let Katz post trash, let ESR mouth off, whatever. <> I'll admit I'm much less enamoured with /. than I originally was when I first found it, but it's still a usefull source of information. And there are still intelligent folks around, and for the most part the moderations works. It's not optimal, but it mostly gets the job done (altho, I think the meta-moderation thing is a bit pointless). <> The point is, there's lame shit that goes on there, but I dont take it as a personal afront; it really has nothing to do with me. I can always vote with my feet, as you have done. But it's still a useful and interesting resource. <> I think of it a bit liked Wired magazine. It was cool for a while, and then it started to suck, so I stopped buying it. No big deal, I just moved on. <> BTW, if you want to cruise /. and avoid the bullshit, the "extra" columns (ask slashdot, bsd, YRO, etc) are still good and get no traffic from the morons, except for the occasional articles that hit the main page. <> Anyway, I understand the dislike of /., and I agree with most of your points. I just dont understand the intense hatred that you and many others have. <> Admittedly, you may have personal issues with roblimo and katz, and that's fair enough. I've never dealt with either of them, I so I have no comment on them, except that neither of them should have anything to do with /. :)
--
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves */
[ Parent ]
html? (none / 0) (#46)
by jetpack on Wed Apr 26, 2000 at 10:30:43 PM EST

hmmm. Looks like kuro5hin ate all my html tags even tho they worked in the preview. Sorry about that :P
--
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves */
[ Parent ]
Well, it's cool! I wonder how much... (none / 0) (#3)
by FlinkDelDinky on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:44:19 AM EST

FlinkDelDinky voted 1 on this story.

Well, it's cool! I wonder how much it's going to cost?

I can't think of much to contribute. Wingcommander or Freespace would be cool (to bad no Linux versions). I don't think it'd do much for doom though.

Re: Motion-Feedback Gaming at Home (none / 0) (#9)
by End on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 11:27:47 AM EST

Problem:

It doesn't look to me like this thing has enough degrees of motion flip you upside down. So, when you're in a flight sim, and you do a barrell roll, does the device bank hard right, stay there until you're just past being directly upside down and then flip you left really hard, trying to bring you out of the end of the roll? That sounds like it could hurt, besides being very disorienting.

-JD

Re: Motion-Feedback Gaming at Home (none / 0) (#11)
by fluffy grue on Sat Apr 22, 2000 at 02:52:57 PM EST

In its default mode of operation, it basically just tilts you along with your joystick. While you do a barrel roll, it tilts you to one side, and when you finish it returns you to a neutral position. IMO, you don't NEED to be upside-down to have that barrel-roll feeling, since what you feel is the acceleration, and being tilted to the side gives you that (since you've got the acceleration of gravity offset by 55 degrees).
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Motion-Feedback Gaming at Home | 46 comments (46 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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