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Scoop 0.5-pre2 Released

By rusty in News
Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 08:56:45 AM EST
Tags: Scoop (all tags)
Scoop

Lots of news on the code front. At long last, we have a real project infrastructure set up for Scoop again. scoop.kuro5hin.org is the central project site, and will serve as the main locus for discussion, suggestions, feature requests, support, and general info about the Scoop weblog system. Would-be developers can also visit our SourceForge project page, and avail yourself of the services there. Many, many thanks to Brent Metzler, of Geeky.org for co-managing the open source project with me, and getting us all set up on SourceForge, and for hosting scoop.kuro5hin.org. And to go along with all this open-source goodness, there's also new code! More ways to get it, and a description of the new release are below. And unless something really big happens, future Scoop news will appear on scoop.kuro5hin.org instead of here.


Why is it a pre-release?

There are a couple of known bugs, and I'm pretty sure there are a few that are not known yet. None are showstoppers, but they're things that I don't want an "official" release to include. So, in the interests of getting the code out there, and hopefully finding all the bugs we can, I'm releasing this pre version for testing. If you install this tarball, you will be able to upgrade to the final 0.5 via CVS without breaking anything-- there won't be any major changes, just bugfixes. The bugs I know about are:

  • Improper handling of HTML entities after a comment of story Preview (they turn into literal characters in the text box)
  • Asking for an sid that doesn't exist produces an Internal Server Error (I know what's wrong-- this will be fixed RSN)
  • The docs are not particularly clear, and probably slightly inaccurate
Important changes to the 0.5 tree are:
  • Many many bugfixes all over the place
  • Security fix in HTML filtering
  • Now runs as a mod_perl handler, instead of using Apache::Registry
  • No longer uses CGI.pm, for memory savings
  • Lots of changes to Scoop.pm, for much better program flow and readability
  • Configuration is easier and cleaner, and it is now easy to run multiple Scoop sites on one machine with only one codebase
So grab it, and try it out, and report the bugs!

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Scoop 0.5-pre2 Released | 17 comments (17 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
great! i have been looking forward ... (1.00 / 1) (#3)
by cavok on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 05:35:31 AM EST

cavok voted 1 on this story.

great! i have been looking forward for it too too much time. :)
-= cavok =-

Does this have any of the new featu... (2.00 / 1) (#2)
by FlinkDelDinky on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 08:03:32 AM EST

FlinkDelDinky voted 1 on this story.

Does this have any of the new features we've talked about like community edit?

PS. Why is the music review (or any non tec review) getting blasted in the que? It's las if people don't know you've got catagories for non-tec things. I saw it mentioned on a thread somewhere that in adition to edit you may want to allow catagory voting as well.

I support that as it allows the community to become aware that there are catagories. The only thing I don't like is that it adds more complexity to voting.

Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (4.00 / 1) (#4)
by rusty on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 09:27:33 AM EST

No, this is not really a feature release, but a bugfix/stability release. I've been reworking a lot of hidden stuff to be faster and more stable, which is mostly why there have been no new features to speak of lately. Now that we're on solid ground again, I expect to be able to work on new userland things. :-)

I think the way voting is going to go will be much less controversy-and-bad-feelings causing in the futute. Basically, instead of voting on a story, you'll categorize it. Two of the sections will be "trash" and "rewrite" which neatly integrates those things into the rest of the scheme. And even if the story doesn't necessarily grab *you*, but you still think it fits in a category (maybe one you don't read much, due to personal perference), you can vote it there for others to read.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (2.00 / 1) (#6)
by Paul Dunne on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 10:19:36 AM EST

Does the present system cause bad feeling? I wasn't aware of it. Having categories instead of a straight vote is an interesting idea; but it may be that I don't *want* to say a story is trash, but don't think it should be on kuro5hin either. I mean, "trash" isn't a nice word. How about a "sorry, I gave at the office" (trans. no, please away) type category?
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (2.50 / 2) (#7)
by rusty on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 10:26:55 AM EST

Terminology is subject to review. Perhaps we'll just use the polite and ubiquitous "decline." The nifty thing about having even "declined" be a section is that if people really want to, they can see the stories that were dropped, and the comments on them. I'm debating whether or not to allow discussion in that section, or simpy show stories and their moderation comments. Needless to say it won't be a prominently featured section. Perhaps just a little recycle bin at the bottom of the page. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (2.00 / 1) (#10)
by bmetzler on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 12:48:17 PM EST

Perhaps we'll just use the polite and ubiquitous "decline."

I like declined.

I'm debating whether or not to allow discussion in that section, or simpy show stories and their moderation comments.

I can't see it hurting to allow discussion. Maybe it would end up being a discussion more about why it was declined, but that may help better stories get posted in the future. I think that people also want to know that stories did indeed get declined, and not everything is posted :)

Needless to say it won't be a prominently featured section. Perhaps just a little recycle bin at the bottom of the page. :-)

Maybe it should only be available to logged in users? That would keep the people just browsing the site from seeing all the junk, but still be available for those who are actually a part of the site day-by-day.

Oh, and you'll probably need a 'hot grits' section :)

-Brent
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
[ Parent ]
Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (1.00 / 1) (#12)
by Alorelith on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 01:14:36 PM EST

Needless to say it won't be a prominently featured section. Perhaps just a little recycle bin at the bottom of the page. :-) Maybe it should only be available to logged in users? That would keep the people just browsing the site from seeing all the junk, but still be available for those who are actually a part of the site day-by-day.

This is a very good idea. I second it.



----
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. -- Nietzsche

[ Parent ]
Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (2.00 / 1) (#11)
by Paul Dunne on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 12:50:54 PM EST

Yeah, I think having a "bin" for rejected stories is a good idea. You could make it so that people can go there to rummage around if they want to, but of course the stories don't appear on the front page nor in any of the other categories. By not allowing comment posting on such "binned" stories you are tightening the focus of the sight, which I think is a good thing.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: Does this have any of the new featu... (1.00 / 1) (#15)
by FlinkDelDinky on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 04:38:11 PM EST

Good. I like that voting scheme even better than what we've got now (which I like a lot too).

[ Parent ]
Wow! Things are moving on apace. ... (1.00 / 1) (#1)
by Paul Dunne on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 08:36:03 AM EST

Paul Dunne voted 1 on this story.

Wow! Things are moving on apace. Time to change your name to CmdrBurrito, Rusty.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/

Re: Wow! Things are moving on apace. ... (3.00 / 1) (#5)
by rusty on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 09:52:52 AM EST

Eeek! Nah, if I do that, there won't be new code for *years* ;-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: CGI.pm (2.00 / 1) (#8)
by megacz on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 12:19:30 PM EST

Does CGI.pm really use up a substantial amount of memory? If so, wouldn't it be easier to edit it and strip out what you don't need? From my experiences, parsing URLs is a really tedious task, and it's easy to make small errors that you never notice (but your users do). I'd hazard a guess that CGI.pm would handle your problem with literals in TEXTAREAs (although I haven't tested this).

The people who write CGI.pm put a lot of effort into doing the menial stuff once, and doing it right.... I just hate to see duplicated effort



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Re: CGI.pm (3.00 / 1) (#9)
by rusty on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 12:47:07 PM EST

Nope, no duplicated effort (I *do* know what I'm doing! ;-)). Here's the deal-- I don't want to parse URI's any more than you want me to. Luckily, I'm using mod_perl, which provides nice argument-getting methods, that grabs POST and GET data straight out of the apache internals.

So, first I populate a member of my main Scoop object with that stuff ($S->param), then all my CGI.pm has to do is mimic the CGI->param() method (return one param's value) and the CGI->Vars() method (return a hashref of all arguments->values). These are extra-simple because so far, I don't need to copy the parameter-setting functions of CGI, just the getting ones. All in all, it's about 12 lines to create the $S->param member, and another 30 or so for all of my CGI.pm.

And for all this, I save about a meg of memory per httpd process. which is a non-negligible amount (something like 1/8 the total memory footprint of the server). I'd say that's a really good tradeoff.

Don't get me wrong-- I love CGI.pm. I use it all the time. In this case, though, I was using only a tiny tiny bit of it's functionality, and the part that was easily duplicated using mod_perl anyway. It seemed like the best choice. Using CGI.pm's html-building methods could perhaps help with html input and output filtering in comments and stories, but frankly, there are lighter and faster ways to do that. I just feel like unless I'm really going to use all the stuff in there, I shouldn't have it taking up memory space.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Is anyone running a site based on Scoop? (1.00 / 1) (#13)
by dlc on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 02:54:48 PM EST

I'm very interested in knowing if anyone is running a site based on the Scoop code. I'm going to try it out as soon as I can free up some resources and time (damn work!), and I'd be interested in knowing how it's been going for other people.

As soon as I get it running, I'll be sure to write up my remarks, and submit them for all the read.

darren


(darren)

Re: Is anyone running a site based on Scoop? (2.00 / 1) (#16)
by rusty on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 06:58:28 PM EST

From the bottom of the Links page: Geeky.org and Shakaimen (who have done neat things with the look and feel, I notice!) are running it, that I'm aware of. There are also a few others who are evaluating and/or playing with it, but don't have public sites up yet. If anyone else is running Scoop on a public site, let me know! :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
suggestions (4.50 / 2) (#14)
by superfly on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 04:37:18 PM EST

I'd post this to the What Now? thread, but it (and all other long Kuro5hin pages) confuses my Netscape (Debian package of Navigator 4.72 i386 Linux libc6). It shows blank space where the comments should be, and stylesheets don't work until I restart Netscape. But that's beside the point, which is that I have some suggestions for Kuro5hin/Scoop.

  1. Make the username in a comment the link to the user info instead of having a separate '(User Info)' link.
  2. Have the user info page include all stories the user has submitted.
  3. Separate or distinguish the voting comments from the real comments. This *might* also help people to realize that they're voting on whether the story should appear on the main page, not whether they agree with it.
  4. It would be nice if scoop.kuro5hin.org accounts were the same as www.kuro5hin.org, but I can see how that might be difficult to set up.
  5. I'm sure I had some more points, but I've forgotten them.


Dump Anonymous Hero (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Commienst on Tue Apr 25, 2000 at 11:22:41 PM EST

How about instead of unregistered people posting as "Anonymous Hero" they post as "Unknown Entity" that sounds much better and it is more original.

Scoop 0.5-pre2 Released | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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